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God Have To Save Everyone

Why do some Christians get mad when another Christian claims to be one of the elect after he is saved by the Grace of God through faith? Is it not what all Christians should believe already? That God graciously saved them? That He didn't have to? Or is God obligated to man?

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 ---Mark_V. on 1/24/11
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Kathr, again you twist and misinterpret Scripture, making it sound like man is the one who opens the eyes of unbelievers by giving Acts 26:18. But that is not what the Bible says. Paul is commission to preach the gospel which is what opens the eyes of unbelievers who are blinded to spiritual truth by Satan (2 Cor. 4:4, 6:14). "From darkness to light" Since unbelievers are in darkness of their spiritual blindness, the Bible uses light to picture salvation (v.23, 13:47, Matt. 4:16, John 1:4,5,7-9, 3:19-21)
---Mark_V. on 2/1/11


christan , this is the problem with calvins definition of GRACE. This is why those ask, can those saved by grace who claim OSAS continue to MURDER and steal etc...and you all say''OH NO, Oh No!! The New Heart was put in us, to walk in His ways...

Then you turn around and contradict yourselves.

This is also WHY you all lie and are the author of confusion. You've made a JOKE out of GRACE...

GRACE is...NO LONGER I BUT CHRIST IN ME...

But Christ in you has NO POWER at all...right christan..because you have cheapened the meaning of GRACE!

You have no CLUE what GRACE IS!



---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


Christan ... Your latest post just proves once more that you don't read what others say (or perhaps you just don't care whether you misrepresnt them or not)

I have never said that I do not sin. In fact I have argued consistently against the idea that if you sin, you can't have been saved.

What I have said is that we need to continue to repent of those sins, and that we should do everything we can to avoid sinning.

I've also said that if we think it doesn't matter if we sin because we've been saved anyway, that attitude probably indicates that we were not saved in the first place
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/31/11


---As for Grace, wasn't King David a murderer and adulterer after his conversion??---

See your look at these men as if they were regenerate. Where in scripture does it say the Holy Spirit lived IN them?

They hadnt yet received the promise we have (Heb 11:39).

Saving faith was not even available to the Prophets and Kings. They were shut up to it, still under the law (Gal 3:23)

1 Peter 10 is very clear that even the prophets inquired and searched diligently for the grace that should come unto us. In other words, they didnt have it back then!. Just as Gods word says, they were under the law ! Strange that even David was considered a man after Gods own heart. SO much for TOTAL depravity.
---CraigA on 1/31/11


Each Christian is unique. So, I might let each Christian speak for one's own self, instead of categorizing people because of a few things they say that seem like what others say. I have found how ones can say similar sounding things, but be very different from each other.

I suppose there are people who say they are "elect", and they have their doctrine but do not have "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6). But "Love never fails." (in 1 Corinthians 13:8) God does not fail to finish what He really has started > Philippians 1:6.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/31/11




--O sinless ones in kathr, alan, aka - obviously you do not have an inkling of what the meaning of God's Grace is or even sound like you have experience His Grace a cubic--Christan

Now was this really necessary?
---CraigA on 1/31/11


Perhaps the better way to say it would have been:
Oh, the sinless One in kath, alan, and aka....

Yes, the Christ is indeed sinless and in them. That verily is the truth.
---Sam on 1/31/11


---Craig, if you had read Scripture you would already know that all descendants of Adam are going to hell already.--Mark_V

Ok every believer knows this already. Why did you even bring this up? Noone has ever denied this.

---The only reason they are still heading that way is because God has only stopped those He calls out of darkness into the light---

I havent read a single place from Acts 1 onward where any man was denied the faith. Lets see some scripture where God has withheld truth from men after the death, burial,resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. Have any?
---CraigA on 1/31/11


All souls-His.
He provided a path for All to be saved-yet-not all will.
1.An election has been chosen before the foundation of this world to stand and have already been justified.
2.Yet-All Souls-given the opportunity for repentance-remission (Whosover will...)
The adversary-attempts to beguile-sons of God-to still estabilishing a dominion-
But-Within Yehovah cycle-It is complete-Amen.

In adam(mankind)cycle-we repeat in agreement(confession and belief)-what Yehovah has already declared...
Is46:10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Ecc3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful IN HIS TIME...
---char on 1/31/11


christian,

i do not understand the sarcasm and false accusation, but that's fine.

if i am predestined to believe the lies of certain man such as Armenians and not to believe in predestination, then are you not speaking against the purpose of God?

Please, Christian, think about what you are doing.
---aka on 1/31/11




SAINT paul: "For WHEN WE WERE in the flesh, the passions of sin, which were aroused by the law. BUT NOW WE ARE DELIVEDRED from the law, having died to what we were held by. PRETEND THEN I DO that which I should not, TRULY THEN, that in me dwells no good thing, but the evil which I would not, that I do. NOW PRETEND I DO WHAT I SHOULD NOT, it is sin that dwells in me. For the LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS MADE ME FREE from the law of sin and death. What rightly we say then? WILL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, that grace may abound? GOD FORBID! HOW COULD WE THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN? SO THAT IF ANYONE IN CHRIST, A NEW CREATION: THE OLD THINGS PASSED AWAY, HERE, ALL THINGS HAVE BECOME NEW." Rm.7:5,6,16,18-20+ 8:2+ 6:1,2+ II Cor.5:17.
---Eloy on 1/31/11


O sinless ones in kathr, alan, aka - obviously you do not have an inkling of what the meaning of God's Grace is or even sound like you have experience His Grace a cubic. If your argument would stand about Paul's life that he committed no murder after his conversion, you're right but he did continue to sin, hence he explained this in Romans 7.

As for Grace, wasn't King David a murderer and adulterer after his conversion? Wasn't King Solomon an idolatress, adulterer and fornicator (continuously at that) after he was converted? They were what Paul was describing when one after conversion will experience in Romans 7, but God's Grace won the battle, for they are all now in Paradise.

And you think you know Grace? Really?
---christan on 1/31/11


Ya know, if the Apostles were still alive today, they would still be preaching the Gospel to lost souls. BUT, because man only has a short span of life, approx 70-85 years, the Gospel is passed down to those SAVED to carry the truth to those in their generation.

Every generation of Christians are responsible to continue this work UNTIL JESUS COMES!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


You come across as sinless people even after you claim you have the Spirit while you still walk in the flesh, forgetting that salvation is by Grace. Thank God that entrance into His Kingdom is not through you but through His Grace.
---christan on 1/30/11

christan, here is what GOD said GRACE is about vs the works of the flesh!


Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

WHO gave YOU the right to change God's word!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Markv, if you HAD READ SCRIPTURE, you would know it is OUR JOB to preach the Gospel to lost souls SO THAT the Light of the Gospel can shine UNTO THEM


Just as Paul did in Rome: Listen:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


Christan ... As ever you seem to misrepresent whhat others have written.

I have nevver indicated that I am sure of Calvin,'s murders. I specifically added "if in fact he did so"
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/31/11


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Craig, if you had read Scripture you would already know that all descendants of Adam are going to hell already. They have been condemned already, and are in great need of a Savior, though they don't know it. The only reason they are still heading that way is because God has only stopped those He calls out of darkness into the light, the rest continue that path. They cannot take themselves out of that path by their own works. Everyone who is lost needs God,
"For without Me you can do nothing"
---Mark_V. on 1/31/11


christan, calvin's behavior is recorded history. Recorded History in Geneva SW. How silly of you to say only from America.

As a matter of fact, the SAME spirit did come to America, when the Calvinists murdered one anotherCalvinists on Calvinists..elect murdering elect in Salem MA.

WHY, because Calvinism is LEGALISM Phariseeism.

Neither has one thing to do with GRACE.

God never appointed anyone to GRACE and then put them under a THEOCRATIC legalistic way of life.

That's not God...that's the enemy..the father of LIES!

The TRUE Elect knows this. You don't!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


christian, i was simply responding to the comparison that you made by adding the overriding contrast.

i have no judgments on Calvin either. he has done that himself.

i am sorry that i do not believe in predestination as Calvin presents scripture over the way i read it.

you can call me what you want, and label me as you wish. you are only blessing me.
---aka on 1/30/11


kathr, alan, aka - you seem so sure about his "murders", which from what I can understand are propagated by pro-Armenians (like yourselves), all documents "recorded" seem to come from one source only.

As I am not a historian in John Calvin's life, your judgement of him seems unforgivable behaving as though you are like God or as you say yourself, like a Pharisee.

You come across as sinless people even after you claim you have the Spirit while you still walk in the flesh, forgetting that salvation is by Grace. Thank God that entrance into His Kingdom is not through you but through His Grace.
---christan on 1/30/11


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This one thing I know christan, calvin WOULD not have received a good report with or without the spirit. The Spirit of Christ in you DOES NOT MURDER no matter what.

And it was somewhere up to 125 who were murdered.

Calvinism was a violent as the RCC.

You will know them by their FRUIT, and murder is not one of the fruit of the spirit.

LOVE< JOY PEACE etc. is.

Saul the pharisee murdered BEFORE he was saved...not after!

Pharisees murder..even the prophets! Even Christ!

Not a big deal??? Go blow your nose!
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11


"If God were your father, you would love Me" indicating that those who are lost do not love Christ. How can they come to Christ whom they don't love?
---Mark_V. on 1/30/11

Let's do this again. WHO was Jesus talking to? Grown men B4 he went to Calvary.

The Jews were NOT AT THAT TIME begotten sons through Jesus Christ. So FATHER here in that verse is not the same as ABBA FATHER is to Us..through Christ.

Will you ever get that right markv????

God was not a father to Gentiles. Israel only before Christ.

Jesus would never say that to a Born Again Christian TODAY.

We know Jesus is God's Son, we know He died for our sin. We know He lives in us.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11


CraigA,

I have to say that you're not playing a fair game with Christan. After all,

you're reading from the bible

while he's reading from the WCF

So you've got him in a clear disadvantage
---James_L on 1/30/11


Christan ... Your comparison of Calvin with Paul is not really valid.

Paul killed Christians and approved the stoning of Steven before He became a Christian

Calvin, if he abetted the murder of Servitus, if in fact he did so, would have done that after he became a Christian

It has to be said though that Christians of all shapes, shades and sizes were murdering other Christians, so Calvin was no worse than many others of his time in this respect.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/30/11


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Please visit the Prayer Needs blog

We should pray for others as well as arguing.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/30/11


christian,

Paul did not continue to kill when he met the real Jesus. Calvin murdered after and even in the name of 'Jesus'.

We shall know them by their fruits.
---aka on 1/30/11


Youre a Christian if you bear fruit and that fruit comes from the Spirit of the living Christ within us.

Murder is not a fruit of the Spirit. That is a form of hatred. Scripture tells us that a murdered does not have eternal life in him. Not that he cant be forgiven, but it is evidence that he has nothing to restrain his fleshly desires.
That is not a regenerate man. Defending your life by taking a life is different than taking a life because a man wont conform to your beliefs.

You honestly think this man wasnt evil? I hope Calvin repented in his heart before he passed. We'll just have to wait to see.
---CraigA on 1/30/11


---Because no one but God is keeping those who are lost from coming to Christ--Mark_V

Satan, "the god of this world" is the one who keeps people blind to the gospel (2 Cor 4:4).

Our GOD is the one who wants all men to know the truth and be saved! (1 Tim 2:1-4)

Once you get that straight, youll see a whole new Savior. You'll see the "good news". You must be in total torment. My heart goes out to you both. You are in my prayers.
---CraigA on 1/30/11


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kathr, your constant babbling and accusations against Calvin for his alleged participation of causing the death of Michael Servetus is a vain attempt to paint all people who read and agree with his teachings as murderers. Calvin is a sinner too just like everyone born after Adam.

Well, Christians read the Epistles from Paul who was also known to be a murderer of Christians and he also approved the stoning of Steven, are you also going to call all Christians who read and follow his teachings murderers too?

So are you a Christian because you're a better person than Paul or Calvin who were sinners just like everyone? Or are you a Christian who's no better than any other sinner but saved by the Grace of God?
---christan on 1/30/11


---And I say again, it's impossible for a Christian chosen by God to fall away from the faith that God has justified him with.---Christan

Youve got your cart before the horse.

Faith does not JUSTIFY you. The blood of Jesus Christ justifies you (Romans 5:9). You are reconciled to God by the DEATH of Jesus Christ (v.10) That is the grace of God. (Heb 2:9)

That grace is ACCESSED by faith (Romans 5:2).

You arent "saved" until you have faith.
You arent "IN CHRIST" until you have faith.
You arent "elect" until you are "IN CHRIST" because HE is Gods elect. Not you!

Does faith in election save a man or faith in Jesus Christ?
---CraigA on 1/30/11


christan, scripture states no such thing. Hebrews 11 state all those in the OT who had faith all died WITHOUT RECEIVING THE PROMISE. The PROMISE was the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit.Galatians also confirm this truth...that the PROMISE of the Spirit wound come to the GENTILES. Christ had to die and rise again frist for that to happen.

Hebrews 11:39
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:



Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


You see the SPIRIT is what WE RECEIVE through faith. not the other way around!
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11


Craig, you said to Christian,
"The only thing your doctrine does is keep some people from turning to Jesus Christ because the "Christian" god may not have chosen to love them to begin with."
Because of your lack of knowledge of Scripture you make such comments. Because no one but God is keeping those who are lost from coming to Christ. They are heading to hell, what they need is a supernatural act of God for them to be saved. The Word of God has to come to them with power. And that power is from God. The lost do not love Christ. Jesus said, "If God were your father, you would love Me" indicating that those who are lost do not love Christ. How can they come to Christ whom they don't love?
---Mark_V. on 1/30/11


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CraigA: There is one case in Luke 16:23, where Jesus describes Lazarus (the beggar, not Lazrus who was raised formthe dead) sitting with Abraham (logically in heaven)

I took that to mean that in the case of people from the OT, regeneation occurs, perhaps after death? I'm not sure. But I take that to mean that many were saved, by their faith in the future Christ
---Peter on 1/30/11


"And Im still waiting on scripture that shows old testament men that were regenerated." CraigA

If you take the time to read Hebrews 11 you will notice the One common bond (Faith from God) that the saints of the OT, NT and the last saint that walks through the narrow gate are all Justified by Faith, the very same Faith that will please God.

In order for the Christian to be Justified by Faith, he must be born of the Spirit of God (John 3). Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses as taught in Hebrews 11, were all born of the Spirit which received the precious gift of Faith from God.
---christan on 1/29/11


Well no christian, the faith we have is built on Christ and Christ is the ROCK.

But christan, look at all those like yourself who claim THEY are the secret elect.


Now when I see calvin who MURDERED, now that is what is called FALLING AWAY.

He was so smug and arrogant in his delusion he actually murdered believing himself God's ax man!

I don't care what anyone calls themself...if there is no EVIDENCE of Christ in you, you are not saved.

Today's calvinists are as obnoxious as NEW MONEY,...all they do is TALK about it, brag about it and flaunt it.

Silly shallow people!
---kathr4453 on 1/29/11


It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John5:19-47
It is hard to believe what you dont see!
---TheSeg on 1/29/11


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"DEAD faith is faith without works. There are only TWO kinds of faith spoken in scripture." kathr

Kathr, do you know that the muslims, buddhists and the many other religions do much more good works than a Christian and are going to hell, and they will tell you what they are doing is according to their "faith"?

What did the thief on the cross next to Christ did for his good works? Yet Christ assured him, "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

By the way, the Holy Bible declares of only One faith and that faith is a gift from God, saving faith. How you got "TWO kinds of faith spoken in scripture" is beyond my understanding.
---christan on 1/29/11


"According to your own words in another blog... all the epistles are addressed to the "elect". Are you now going back on your words?" CraigA

I stand by my conviction that the Epistles were written and addressed to the Christians (aka the elects) only. They contain revelations given to Paul from God to teach the Christian. The Epistles also warns about false christians and how we are to know who they are.

And I say again, it's impossible for a Christian chosen by God to fall away from the faith that God has justified him with.

But it is possible for a christian who claim he chose God out of his free-will to fall away, for that faith he has is built on sand and not from God.
---christan on 1/29/11


To The Seg,

John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 10:1-2
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep."

And for you to use Romans 11:30 to say that God can save anyone outside of Jesus Christ is blasphemy. And let's just say I agree with you, then Jesus death at Calvary was all a big joke and a hoax.
---christan on 1/29/11


TheSeg: 'That God will not save anyone who is not a Christian!'

Weeeeell......

Unfortunately, it does look that way, though it does nto say 'Christian' - the term is beleive (in some cases 'and are baptised') - but where does God put the limit of belief? I am not sure

And perhaps I dont NEED to know
---peter3594 on 1/29/11


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Mark, I havent heard you comment on the cross yet.

Please tell us how the cross fits into your doctrine.

And Im still waiting on scripture that shows old testament men that were regenerated.
---CraigA on 1/29/11


So many get so angry when we put down Scripture and many do a lot of talking & opinions. What might not be important to you right now is, you could die today and be outside the gates of the kingdom of God having the wrong gospel. Free will for salvation is not in Scripture. The whole Sovereignty of God tells us that men of his own merits can never bring himself to salvation. Without faith in Christ, they continue their walk to hell. And faith comes from hearing the Word of God yet many don't get it. The word of God has to come to them with power otherwise the word is meaningless. "For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" 1 Cor. 1:18.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/11


Would you guys please tell me something?
Are you saying! Only the ones who read the bible are saved?
That God will not save anyone who is not a Christian!
Is this what you believe?
Is this really what you believe God is telling you?
And youre getting this from the holy bible, right?

Because, if this is what you believe.
Well, I think the Holy Bible says it best!
Of all!

Peace!
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
---TheSeg on 1/29/11


---To begin with, this only proves that the faith they claimed they had (sounds familiar?) was never the same faith that Scripture speaks about---Christan

According to your own words in another blog... all the epistles are addressed to the "elect". Are you now going back on your words?

Apparently Paul disagrees with your opinion of the type of faith these people had. Why exactly do you think he is tryin to warn us about falling away from the faith?

You dont warn people how to avoid the dangers of falling away unless it is possible for them to fall away as well by making the same mistakes.
---CraigA on 1/28/11


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christan, let's examine your last statement..faith from other religions? You are correct, other religions have their own bibles. They place their faith in budda, mohammed, John smith...yet we know none of those are in OUR BIBLES..correct.

SO those reading the HOLY BIBLE, the one we read, can in fact have faith in God, the God of OUR HOLY SCRIPTURES.

So, along comes Joseph Smith, Ellen White, John Calvin and RE_WRITE the WORD of God...and yes, they are drawn away from God's WORD, and ship-wreck their faith.

God gave ME and CRAIG and many others here the WORD of God. This is who and where OUR FAITH comes...God's Word.

Thank you Lord for your WORD giving us faith to believe YOU and no one else!
---kathr4453 on 1/29/11


Even the other religions will tell you, they have faith, but is it from God? No! It's dead faith that cannot save them from their sins.

And you claim to be a Christian, so "How can you miss all these things?"
---christan on 1/28/11

sorry christan, DEAD faith is faith without works. There are only TWO kinds of faith spoken in scripture.

FAITH with Works and faith WITHOUT works.

Now we see examples of faith with works. Abraham for example.

BUT where does it say Abraham went into a trance and God through Abraham OBEYED Himself, therefor giving Glory to Himself and by that blessed Himself.

---kathr4453 on 1/28/11


"have you never read where new testament scripture states that some men and women had their faith overthrown by false teachers?" CraigA

To begin with, this only proves that the faith they claimed they had (sounds familiar?) was never the same faith that Scripture speaks about, which is from God. Which is no saving faith. Faith from God will save. Jesus calls it a rock, which cannot be shaken when the wind comes.

Even the other religions will tell you, they have faith, but is it from God? No! It's dead faith that cannot save them from their sins.

And you claim to be a Christian, so "How can you miss all these things?"
---christan on 1/28/11


Christan, have you never read where new testament scripture states that some men and women had their faith overthrown by false teachers? How some men have shipwrecked their faith because they fell into sin and did not keep a good conscience?

Even those who are partakers have fallen from grace into false doctrine and "denied the very Lord who bought them".

How can you miss all these things?
---CraigA on 1/28/11


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Thats wonderful scripture for someone that has already come to Christ, Christan. Unfortunately it has nothing to do with the lost. That is who I was referring to.
---CraigA on 1/28/11


Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
His own will?
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
selfwilled?
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
His will?
Rom 6:16a Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey...
yield ourselves?
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God.
Submit ourselves?
---micha9344 on 1/27/11


Craig A, Wow! I have the power to "keep some people from turning to Christ?" Let's comprehend what Scripture says in 1 Peter 2:

6 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded."

7 "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,"

8 "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
---christan on 1/27/11


---if you call yourself a Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Lutheran or even a Roman Catholic, these are denomination, of which I assure you I'm not. I'm a Christian.
---

So you dont acknowledge that youre a Calvinist?
---CraigA on 1/27/11


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No real Christian gets mad at a Christian whom professes Truth, but only carnal souls which are still unsaved and delusionally "think" they are Christian when in truth they clearly are still none of his.
---Eloy on 1/26/11


The scripture you give me doesnt "condemn" me, Christan. I know my God. His name is Jesus. I feel his LOVE in me daily

The only thing your doctrine does is keep some people from turning to Jesus Christ because the "Christian" god may not have chosen to love them to begin with.

Now I ask you, whose work is your gospel really doing?

Can you not stop thinking about yourself for one minute? Is YOUR eternal security worth risking the souls of millions?
Think of all the souls heading for hell if youre wrong in what you believe. Think of all the people you may have turned away from Jesus because you were too stubborn to accept what the word of God says.... Jesus Christ died FOR EVERY MAN!
---CraigA on 1/27/11


Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
No one!

Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Oh yes this is just about sabbath.

Are you obligated to save that ass or ox?
Some will always say no. But, hear me! When they become your sheep!
So will you!!

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Rev 19:10
God Bless!
---TheSeg on 1/26/11


CraigA, being a Christian, sad to say is not a denomination. Eg, if you call yourself a Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Lutheran or even a Roman Catholic, these are denomination, of which I assure you I'm not. I'm a Christian.

And you accuse me of condemning your belief when I use Scripture as evidence to refer to what I am talking about. If you feel condemned, I assure you I am not your judge but the Word of God judges each and everyone of us.

Jesus declared "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
---christan on 1/26/11


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Allen-- Where have you been the last decade or so? Christianity is rare in Europe, and mostly static in the US.

Africa and Asia and S. America is where the Gospel is flourishing. They print and publish their own written material except where it is prohibited in Communist or Muslim countries. Even that doesn't completely prevent them from importing these things...not necessarily from Western countries. They send out missionaries as well, but almost never to the US.
---Donna66 on 1/26/11


Noone has a "problem" with Romans 9, Christan.

The only problem most of us have is your interpretation of it. Therefore, we arent against the sovereignty of God, just the against your declaration of what His sovereign will is.

Our God is powerful enough to allow free-will and not lose control. His judgement however will not be stopped by that free-will. He is giving us the opportunity to repent and be saved by His Son before that judgement comes.

If you research Calvin you will see that this man did not bear the fruit of Jesus Christ because he didnt know Him.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:15)
---CraigA on 1/26/11


2Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.
Purge himself?.. to become a vessel of honour?..sanctified?..
---micha9344 on 1/26/11


Yeah thnx Christan. Every denomination that condemns others uses that verse. NIce to see youre not any different.
---CraigA on 1/26/11


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"God is obligated to his word. He will not violate his word. He will do exactly what he says he will do." Mima

Sound very Calvinistic one must say. You shouldn't have a problem then when He declared,

"I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." Romans 9:21,22
---christan on 1/26/11


2 Corinthians 4:3-6

"But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."
---christan on 1/25/11


Mima, that was an awesome post!
---CraigA on 1/25/11


---Craig...they were never saved. If they had, they would have believed by faith as very few of them did.--"Bob"

Faith because of salvation by grace? Um NO. That is NOT what the Bible teaches. Feel free to open it up and read along!

For by grace are you saved THRU FAITH. (Eph 2:8)

We have ACCESS to this grace by FAITH. (Rom 5:1,2)

No faith = no salvation

The word of God doesnt even consider FAITH a work! (Romans 4:2-3, 20-25)

You are sealed with the Holy Spirit AFTER you exercise FAITH in Jesus Christ (Eph 1:13)

Why do you think the Bible repeatedly warns us against departing from the faith!??
---CraigA on 1/25/11


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mima,I love the sarcasm:) Hey, I'm holding strong & leaning heavy on God's word that He'll keep us. His eternal security is a humans only hope. I would NEVER expect my puny ability's to get me to Heaven! THANK YOU LORD, FOR YOUR MERCY ON ME!
---Reba on 1/25/11


Paul didn't have a problem claiming to be one of God's elect. Titus 1:1-2, PAUL, a servant of God, & an apostle of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING TO THE FAITH OF GOD'S ELECT, & the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began,
---Reba on 1/25/11


Blogger9211

Is that not convenient for you that God selected you and the other millions who are from the USA and Western Europe where the Bible and almost all christian materials are produced?

Grace, by definition, is not selective or exclusionary. Grace makes no exemptions! Romans 5:8, 18-20.

We are 'saved' because of the Nature and the Character of God, and never by our deeds, our position, our geography or our ethnic extractions.

Amazingly, about 90% of the world lives outside of Western Europe and North America.

It would seem that the selection process is very selective for those billions.
---Allan on 1/25/11


because it indicates or suggest that God has created some people for hell and some for heaven and that is not true. God loves everyone. Just believe and you will be saved.
---Lincolin on 1/25/11


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God is not obligated to man, thereby making his grace much more glorious than if he were obligated to mam. God is obligated to his word. He will not violate his word. He will do exactly what he says he will do. Our salvation depends on God keeping his word. Oh my goodness that speaks of eternal security!!!
---mima on 1/25/11


Jesus died for the sins of the world,the entire world....
---kevin5443 on 1/24/11


God is if infinate forethought and wisdom selected those of humanity to be the members of his' family and the Elect. He grants them his irresistable grace it is not a matter of choice for us If God want you for a task he will keep pestering you until you comply and do it. Just as he did with Johna and St. Paul both were unwilling participants to start with. God does not have to select every one only those He chooses. Christ died for the Elect only not for the world read John Ch. 17 it makes that emphatically clear.
---Blogger9211 on 1/24/11


"Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake." Psalm 115:1

According to the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. Man was his last creation after all the beasts of the fields and everything. And He made man out of dust. Is dust valuable?

According to the Bible, there's only one true Jesus Christ and He has warned His people that many other christs will surface. And only His elect will be spared from their deceptions because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in them.

Finally, just like there's one Christ, there's also one body (the Christian) and they are girded together by One Truth through His Holy Spirit.
---christan on 1/24/11


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Mark: I have not encountered this, but could it be not a reaction to the fact, but to the fact that sometimes the use of 'elect' is used in a (not exactly snobbish, but something similar) way.

Just an idea
---Peter on 1/24/11


//Why do some Christians get mad when another Christian claims to be one of the elect after he is saved by the Grace of God through faith?

They get mad because it violates their philosophical sense of values. They ignore the fact that God does not think like they do.

Isaiah 55:118 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

And that is often the way of human philosophy.
---leej on 1/24/11


By the Grace of God through faith?, Yes, & , faith without works is dead. Matt.24 v 13, which Is works.
Where scripture says, not by works lest any man should boast, that is talking about Your Own self righteous works.
It's Not talking Biblical works.

The salvation of God Is a process in working, again, Matt.24 v 13.
---Lawrence on 1/24/11


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