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Backsliders Go To Heaven

I am earnestly seeking input, I have studied, interviewed, and probed literally for years and can't find a satisfactory response to eternal security. I'm asking any one who can explain how you could serve Christ and then turn back to practicing sin and feel your still an heir to Heaven.

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 ---paul on 1/26/11
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There are a couple of things I would like to point out.

Proving a position with 125 word entries is like trying to kill an army with one pistol. You take one shot, and here come 1700 bullets headed back at you. Then the topic gets filled up and no one gets satisfaction.

Also, you need to let go of the misconception that eternal security teaches a license to sin. Paul was accused of that (Rom 3:8). If that's your argument, you may well be arguing against the truth.

If you want to write to me, I would be happpy to get to the bottom of this issue wih you. And believe me, it's not the same TULIP doctrine you've been arguing against.

---James_L on 1/31/11

Galatians 5:20-22

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11

Paul, If a Christian backslides into sin and they die in their sins, without having repented of their sins and getting right with GOD again, then THEY WILL GO TO HELL. Refer to HEBREWS Chapters 6 and 10! Throughout the Old and New Testaments GOD is constantly and consistently calling backsliders to REPENT and return back to Him. GOD will not be mocked and He means exactly what He says in His Word when He says (in REVELATION 21:8) that those IN SIN will be cast into the Lake of Fire. That includes Christians if they are in unrepented sin. For sin is sin, whether you're saved or not. When we're saved, we are to be walking in the Spirit, not in the flesh.
---Gordon on 1/31/11

I understand what your saying but disagree. You wanted input to blog question. I hope you consider scriptures below.

Use God's definitions of sin, then you will understand. All of them amount to unbelief. Even 1John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the law" is about unbelief.

We have been SET FREE from the law Rom8:2, so how can we be accused as transgressors of it?

What the law says it says to those under it" Rom3:19
"The law is NOT made for righteous man(Christians) but for...sinners" 1Tim1:9

To SIN, as you suggest it, is to say that Christians are STILL under the law and transgress it.
Those who go back to works of the law are in sin of unbelief. And sin brings death.
---Haz27 on 1/30/11

This may sound like a silly question, but I really don't understand what you believe about Salvation.

If you sin before you are go to hell. If you sin after you're go to hell.
Christians don't appear to be sinless. Are they any better off for being saved?
---Donna66 on 1/30/11

I ask all of you who disagree with me, "Who are the righteous in the verse below?

(1 Timothy 1:8-9)
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners."

...and who is the sinner, if it is not those who sin?
---David on 1/31/11


I try to refrain from personal criticism and character attacks so I will leave my opinion out of it.

I assure you I do not desire to argue, I am seeking some one to prove this theory of eternal security and the scriptures you have made your attempt with have not proven to be that you always have salvation, NO MATTER WHAT,

What about the example of the one the wicked spirits went out from and the Holy Spirit cleaned up and the wicked spirit returned with even more forces, was the man still saved?

And it is obvious the prodigal is a picture of a loving father who received his LOST son back into the fold, not my belief, fact.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/31/11

Paul, I've heard many say what you say,
"If at any point you are actively in these types of things God cant receive you, its not that He doesn't want to, He cant because no sin can enter into Heaven."
First, no one knows where heaven is at. Second, He receives all people for Judgment. When a person has rejected Christ in his life, the sins he committed are in the book of works, they did not disappear. Every single one of them. At the Great White Throne of Judgment, for unbelievers only, the books will be open and they will be judge by those sins in the book. So, as we know, after death no one sins anymore, but those sins they committed are still on the books where ever heaven is at, or wherever that Judgment seat is at.
---Mark_V. on 1/31/11


I suppose since you have failed in your attempt to prove eternal security through scriptures that it must be my fault.

I have put forth many scriptures to show that you can turn back to sin and disconnect from God.

The prodgial can not support eternal security in that it says anyone that goes back to sin never was truly saved so that would indicate that the son was never truly a son.

God bless,
---paul on 1/31/11


Are you without sin yourself? Have you become sinless since you "became" a Christian? I'm sure you will say yes.

Seems when you are shown verses from the Scriptures that contradicts your belief, you go on a tear O sinless one. The conversations/debate between us is worthless and yes, I will admit that I am disobedient to Jesus's instructions,

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
---christan on 1/30/11


Its not about the law or Grace either one.
Why is it so difficult to see that if we go back to sin after grace that we can be considered sinners again.

Their are certain thing one cant go to heaven doing, lying, stealing, adultery, fornication , drunkenness and so forth.

If at any point you are actively in these types of things God cant receive you, its not that He doesn't want to, He cant because no sin can enter into Heaven.

You can attempt to explain it away if you like but if your in SIN you are a sinner with all rights and responsibilities.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/30/11

\\If God lives in you, Sin can not. (Romans 6)\\
---David on 1/29/11

Romans 6 doesn't say that. What many don't understand is the identification of our body as the temple of the Holy Spirit.

In the OT temple, sin could enter the courts, but not the Holy of Holies (inner sanctuary).

Man has an inner and an outer as well, called spirit and flesh (Romans 7)

When we become believers, our INNER man is cleansed and free of sin. That's where the Holy Spirit dwells.

BUT, our OUTER man is full of sin.

You are not a body with a spirit in you
you are a spirit with a body around you.

That's why 1John says both:
1:8 we have sin (flesh)
3:9 we cannot sin (spirit)
---James_L on 1/30/11

christan seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Do not tempt the Lord thy God, " and we say that too???

Being questioned is not being tempted christan.

Stop hiding behind your "Thus sayeth the Lord"

You made excuses for calvin's SIN, and rebuke anyone who questions that?

Sounds like a Benny Hinn move!!

How dare anyone question christan, markV or Benny Hinn... if you do..don't you know you've blasphemed the Holy Spirit!!
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11

Anyone practicing that is only fooling themselves. They are delusional. Once we are born again we are to grow and mature.This does not happen overnight but we are to be growing day by day. Things that we know are outright sins, we are to stay away from them. We constantly pray and ask God to be our helper. In the book of Hebrews (God said) He would never forsake us or leave us alone. We are to depend on Jesus Christ to help us live a saved life. Not live in outright sin.
---Robyn on 1/30/11

Paul-- I think YOU are trying to reinterpret the parable to match your belief.. If God is not "a loving father" the parable is meaningless.

I don't think you are "earnestly seeking" anything but chance to argue. Combining different scriptures to make them mean what you want, corrupts the Word of God...i.e
YOU SAY//No man nor height nor depth, things present or things to come can pluck you out or separate you from Christ, however sin can separate your from God Isiah 59: 1-2//
Rom 8:39 says Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God... Jhn 10:29 speaks of the impossibility of "plucking" believers out.. Is.59 is totally UNRELATED.
---Donna66 on 1/30/11

What kind of God would save a person and not take them home right then if that were their only hope.
If my child wandered into the wilderness I would go and get them . If they refused I would take them home anyway because they are mine. Does God love me less than I love my own Child ?
Does the backslider get what they deserve ? Yes, they suffer the earthly consequence of their sin, but the bible does not say they suffer eternal damnation.
I left the Church of God years ago over people not being able to enjoy their salvation for fear of losing it every second.
He is the author and finisher of my Salvation. Yes, I stumble and sometimes stray , and I have never seem him fail to bring one of his own back to him. Grace...
---Chloe on 1/30/11

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We should pray for others as well as arguing.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/30/11


Romans does not stop at 6.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
---aka on 1/30/11

I never said "that God does say that when he changes your heart, you can keep his commands." christan 1/29/11

You didn't, but God did.
"And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:27
Can man keep Gods statutes?
Can man keep Gods statutes, after God lives in them?
According to God, Yes!

You say you are a sinner, and claim Gods Holy Spirit lives in you.
Do you believe that Sin is Evil or Holy?
If God lives in you, Sin can not. (Romans 6)
If you sin, it is not Gods Holy Spirit that lives in you.
---David on 1/29/11

2Cor5:10 the "good or bad" we are judged by is whether one is justified in Christ or not.

One of God's definitions of sin is "transgression of the law" 1John3:4.
I assume this is the sin you are referring to re Christians "practicing sin".
But we are "set free from the law" Rom8:2.

Eternal security is based on our works of believing on Jesus, not how good a life we live. When Christians do wrong God chastises.
Are you saying if we transgress the law we have been set free from, once too often, we are unsaved?
---Haz27 on 1/30/11

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Donna66, I was not disagreeing with you when I posted. In fact I was agreeing with you. As I see it, the minute someone says, he believes in OSAS, They disagree because, we can now sin all we want. But that is not true at all. What they forget is that the Holy Spirit within us who directs the believer through life. It is not by our works, but by the works of Christ that we become more like Christ. If there is no Works of Christ working through us, there is no salvation. That's why Scripture tells us that true faith in Christ always produces good works. But no, they see a person already saved, struggling to reach Christ without Christ, when in fact Christ already lives in us and working through us, that is why we give Him the glory.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/11

"I feel once saved always saved is a doctrine which allows people to do as they please without fear of consequences." Paul

Satan was the coiner of this same reasoning (see Matthew 4:5,6). Satan's argumentation was equally insolent and absurd. He reasoned, not like a serpent in his wits, but like a serpent whose head was bruised (see Genesis 3:15), who had no more of understanding than of modesty.

Christ silenced this idea, with a single sentence: "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" (Matthew 4:7). So said the Messiah, so say we. And this is answer enough, to a cavil, whose palpable irrationality would cut its own throat, without the help of any answer at all.
---christan on 1/30/11

"You will see it's the sin of unbelief that the world will be convicted of (not how good a life we live i.e works)."

I think you may have missed my point.
I was commenting on the coment you made about the WORLD being judged as per their unbelief, which in part is true.
However they will be judged according to the deeds their unbelief generates.
That is what my references addressed.
And we as believers will like wise be judged according to our deeds.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/29/11


John 6 If you read it in its entirety you will find the people were asked to put their faith and beliefs into action and they went away from Jesus.

Works are faith in action, were surely not saved by works but our salvation ignites our works and the Spirit equips us to operate effectively in our works.

Dont be weary in well doing, Faith without works is dead, be doers of the Word and not just hearers, If you Love me keep my commandments and so on.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/29/11

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I see the problem, you are looking at this through the spectrum of humanity and not the eyes of a Holy and just God.

We cant gauge Gods actions by what a " loving human father" would do.

Its simple God is light and their is no darkness in Him at all.
If we have darkness He is not present in us nor can he be.

So if you allow darkness in you as a resident to RESIDE in you at any time, you are as lost as a goose in a chicken race.
God Bless,Paul
---paul on 1/29/11

David, I see you are very obsessed with trying to obey the law or else you will loose your salvation.
---christan on 1/29/11

An obsession to be sure, that I share with my Heavenly Father.
It's an inherited trait amongst those born of God.
---David on 1/29/11

Those verses you quoted Ps28:4, Isa59:18, Jer25:14, Rom2:6 are speaking of those who, by their deeds/works of self-righteousness, self-works, remain in unbelief. As these scriptures say, they will be repaid (judged) according to their deeds/works.

John6:28,29 tells Christians that our works are to believe on Jesus.

Your point that some seem to view salvation as permission to "do as they please without fear of consequences" is valid. But reality is there are consequences. God chastises those He loves.

---Haz27 on 1/29/11

Paul--//He ran to the prodigal just as He runs to LOST sinners to desire a relationship with them who are not sons. It's true God does this, but that was not the message of the parable.

He ran to that wayward young man BECAUSE he was a SON. (He wasn't looking for any poor sad vagabond who happened by.)

A loving human father does not disown his children because they disobey. They are simply disobedient sons or daughters, not orphans.
In the parable, the son had suffered enough through his own actions, to willingly return. The fathers first response was joy, not retribution.
---Donna on 1/29/11

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The lost sheep is a the backslidden nation of Israel who had went away from God and in His mercy He was bidding them to come back just as He would us.

And the Father is always desiring a relationship with His creation.
That is why He ran to the prodigal just as He runs to LOST sinners to desire a relationship with them who are not sons.
Its not that we love Him but that He first loved us.
And He will seek us out as He sought Atom in the garden.
Hope this helps you, God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/29/11

It is called "believing the lie". In otherwords, no matter what a person does: lie, cheat, steal, etc., God will always love them and they will go to heaven. But this doctrine is from hell and is not the truth: for the truth is, the righteous go to heaven, and the wicked go to hell, that there is a very real and literal hell, and "lip-servers" who confess Christ but do not obey him will all go to hell unless they repent, that is the gospel: and the gospel is Not that all go to heaven, and God loves everybody no matter what they do. No, God is not mocked, for whatsoever life you choose to lead that you will reap the rewards of it whether onto heaven or onto hell.
---Eloy on 1/29/11

David, I see you are very obsessed with trying to obey the law or else you will loose your salvation. This is known as salvation by works, which is no salvation at all.

First of all, I never said "that God does say that when he changes your heart, you can keep his commands." You are adding to my comments. Scripture says, "And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:27

What this simply means is found in Matthew 22:37-40, when Jesus declared "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

If anyone who's in conflict, it's your heart and what Scripture says.
---christan on 1/29/11

Paul,-- Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran... and kissed him
If the father considered his son "dead", how would have see him approaching "a great way off"?

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found.
To me, this parable speaks of eternal security (or at least the willingness of God to take back a wayward child). The parable of the lost sheep speaks similarly. (And the lost sheep showed no sign of "repentance!)"

Now, if the "son" had been an imposter, it would have been quite different
---Donna66 on 1/28/11

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Christian-- It's all God's work 100% and man is the beneficiary, period! AMEN!

A lot of people view the command differently, but
I see the "be ye perfect as I am perfect" command as being like the 10 commandments. God NEVER EXPECTED men to be able to keep it. But unless we are told what we MUST do, we will never become aware of what we CAN'T do...and consequently will not recognize our need of a Savior.

Jesus is not a "back up" to somehow compensate for our sins and failures. HE IS our RIGHTEOUSNESS!

MarkV-- A comment I made may be misleading. I mentioned that the prodigal son expected to lose his inheritance, to show his repentance. But his father loved him more than he knew.
---Donna66 on 1/28/11

Just to clear up any confusion, I do not desire to see anyone lose their salvation or desire to minimize God.
I feel once saved always saved is a doctrine which allows people to do as they please without fear of consequences.
And one does not live in fear if he feels he can lose his salvation, if anything it is a motivate to do better and seek Holiness.
And to make the call that someone who is gone out away from God who used to serve Him was never truly saved, is not my judgment to make.
And a practitioner of sin is one who practices sin on a daily basis without consideration of Gods laws or plans. Rom 1:28 not one who messes up and misses the mark on occasion.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/28/11

I agree all sin is of unbelief but the Bible is plain as to what the worlds woes are.

Ps 28:4 Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands, render to them their desert.

Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies, to the islands he will repay recompence.

Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Ro 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
---paul on 1/29/11

When God commanded "turn from your evil ways, keep my commandments, be Holy for I am Holy, belief", it never implied that man has the ability to obey these command.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27
---christan on 1/28/11

First you say that man does not have the ability to obey these commands, and then you give the very proof, (Ezekiel 36:26,27), that God does say that when he changes your heart, you can keep his commands.

Can you explain this conficted in your statement?
---David on 1/29/11

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Gods Word is plain on this matter, irrefutable, you may feel how you want about it but God will put you away for PRACTICING sin (spiritual adultery) before, during or after knowing or being known of Him.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Not my words or my interpretation.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/29/11

Well, one thing for sure, the prodigal son certainly exercised FREE WILL.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/11

To backslide or "turn back to practicing sin" is to turn back to self-righteousness and unbelief. And sin leads to death.

Look up God's definitions of sin in the Bible and use them instead of mans definitions. You will see it's the sin of unbelief that the world will be convicted of (not how good a life we live i.e works).
---Haz27 on 1/28/11


To say we walk by faith and not by site is a bit of a understatement to use as a blanket statement.
Though that sound all spiritual and everything the fact remains that God gave us rationalization and feelings for a reason. Thats like the blanket statement that God didnt give us a spirit of fear but he did build a mechanism inside of us that allows us to fear heights and loud noises as a protective barometer.
We trust God by faith and walk in the spirit by the prompting of the Spirit which we perceive through our feelings and senses.
And Ananias who believed in God in Ac 4:32 or Knew him suffered for his rebellion. Or was his punishment Heaven ? Or Judas, Solomon or the Exodus Israelites?
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/28/11

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Luke 15:11-32 we find the parable recorded of a young son who asks for his portion of goods (inheritance) and takes them into a far country and wastes his riches (inheritance)

He spends some time struggling on his own before DECIDEING to come back (so much for Calvinism)

When he arrives at the fathers house his father anxiously awaits his return and welcomes him lovingly with compassion.

The older son is displeased at this for he never left and felt more deserving then the prodigal.

The father in answering him says in Luke 15:32 this thy brother who was DEAD is alive again. If your dead you are out of the loop, disconnected. He was not called a son until he repented and was restored.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/28/11

Sin is inevitable. Returning to God through Jesus is the most important thing, He will strenghthen resolve and other intangibles when sought and asked for. The kingdom of God is inside of us.
That is why most of our holy people wrote on the importance of, to name a few, love, humility, patience, perseverance, faith, hope, kindness...
I think eternal security is not a given, it is a trust. But we are promised salvation for belief. No one is perfect. Faith has to be nurtured. Relationships take work. Salvation is a lifetime process.
---danny-o on 1/28/11

I didn't read "lose salvation" in Donna66 reply.

As you acknowledged in a different thread, an inheritance is a possession.

Israel's inheritance of the promised land was a "type" for us.

But, Moses was only allowed to look from far off.

That has been the biggest reason for the debate over eternal security. BOTH sides view our eternal inheritance as merely getting to live in heaven, but that is not the case.

If you have 15 kids, and you inherit an estate from your parents. You and all your kids might live there and benefit, but who inherited it?

What does is mean that Jesus is an HEIR, that Jesus got saved? Absolutely not.
---James_L on 1/28/11

paul, the words "and feel your still an heir to heaven." is a dead give away. We don't go by feelings, we walk by faith. However, if someone does what you describe, Jesus said he will have to say to them, "Begone from me, for I never knew you."

MANY will say to me on that day, Lord, didn't we cast out demons in your name? They NEVER knew Him is what Jesus said he's going to tell people...that's the key....that person couldn't have possibly KNOW GOD and JESUS and then go back to practicing sin. They didn't know Him in the first place.
---Donna5535 on 1/28/11

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When God commanded "turn from your evil ways, keep my commandments, be Holy for I am Holy, belief", it never implied that man has the ability to obey these command. In fact Jesus declared, "for man it's impossible". Indeed it's impossible unless God work His Almighty Grace, and this is what must happen,

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27

It's all God's work 100% and man is the beneficiary, period.
---christan on 1/28/11


The son was restored completely with all amenities, he wasted his substance therefore he already received his reward.
His inheritance was his relational value with the Father.
And he was not viewed as a son during his absence, he said my son who was dead and is alive again. He was absent and void of life to the father until restoration.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/28/11

'turn back to practicing sin'

A difficult one to define - do we mean be tempted, fall, and repent, be tempted, fall but not know it, or be tempted, fall, and like it?

Like it probably excludes one, but not sure.... repantance I take to bring one back, not know it is iffy
---Peter on 1/28/11

Donna66, I do not know how many believe that the parable of the Prodigal son says that the son stopped been a son. He sinned but never stopped been a son. His father was always his father. That is pretty simple.
Concerning losing salvation that is even worse. If a genuine believer had faith to take him out of condemnation of the Law of works, into the arms of Christ Grace, how can he believe he can lose that salvation and go back under the Law of works? They determined that if he fails under Grace God sends him back to be under the Law of works. How can he believe His spiritual life, changes back to spiritual death? Whatever happened to the power within him? Does he become an orphan?
---Mark_V. on 1/28/11

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Donna66 2: There is just too many Scriptures that tells us that once a person is out of condemnation, there is no more condemnation to those in Christ. He has died with Christ, now they say they have to die again with Christ. This concept of losing salvation, gives no credit to God at all. In fact He is no where to be found in the persons life. The person is on his own, as he was before salvation. Trying to be good enough to enter the Kingdom of God. Right back to works for salvation.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/11

The prodigal son left his father in selfishness and rebellion. BUT
Luke 15:17-20
When he came to his senses, he said, How many of my fathers hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son, make me like one of your hired servants. So he got up and went to his father

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him, he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

The son GAVE up his inheritance. Did NOT expect to get it back. But the father still saw him as a SON.
---Donna66 on 1/27/11

Cluny, It's not just the theme of a novel. These psuedo- Christians exist in churches everywhere...and tragically don't know what they are missing...or that they are missing anything!
---Donna66 on 1/27/11

\\Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you...\\
---micha9344 on 1/26/11

This verse doesn't have anything to do with God's sanctifying grace in a believer.

If you back up one verse it tells what "good work" Paul is talking about:

"In view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now."

"participation" or fellowship, sharing, partnership, depending on translation

Paul was mentioning the money they had given, and how God would use that donation to help bankroll the missionary journeys on which Paul spread the gospel

See Philippians 4:15
See 2 Cor 8:1-5
See 2 Cor 9:1-6
---James_L on 1/27/11

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Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Rom 8:9b ...if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Same Spirit, different functions.
---micha9344 on 1/27/11


Thanks for your post but Im afraid Ive heard these unconvincing points before, lets reason the scriptures you posted.
Eph 4:30 says were sealed by the Holy Spirit, Cor and Eph also teach us we are sealed with Spirit of promise unto the day of salvation but it warns of grieving the Spirit, why to keep from hurting His feelings, no so it will continue to dwell with you. 1 Sam 16:14 is evidence that the Spirit will depart.

As for the rest of your post It is to the end of God will do His part in Salvation, I dont doubt that, but man must also conduct his vessel as a vessel unto honor. Those who endure till the end will be saved, there is some enduring and responsibility to do His will placed on us. Thanx, Paul
---paul on 1/27/11

I find the prodigal son to also read in Luke 15:24 that this is my son who was DEAD in other word having no life. He was,was not and is again.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/27/11

Thanks for your time and attention but you speak of being joined to Christ.
Being joined to Christ through Gods spirit is not eternally settled forever. Look at the prodigal he went and joined himself to a citizen in Luke 15:15 but choose to go another direction.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/27/11

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I dont agree with the Calvinist view that God will override human will, their has never been a time that God made anyone do anything against their own will. And a seal can be broken if you understand the signet and wax seal process of Jesus time of which He was drawing the analogy from.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/27/11


No man nor height nor depth, things present or things to come can pluck you out or separate you from Christ, however sin can separate your from God Isiah 59: 1-2

And as for election your also correct, He is going to save the elect but He elected to save the entire world, thank God Hes not as narrow minded as some can be.

Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ro 10:13 Joh 3:16 Re 3:20
Are just a few scriptures to teach us His plan for ALL mankind.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 1/27/11

Jesus teaches eternal security which also confirms the doctrine of election by grace (in red) in John 10:27-30 when He declared,

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."

Paul confirms Christ's declaration in his teaching found in Romans 8:37-39.
---christan on 1/27/11

those whom turn their back on Jesus & God & donot repent were never fully with them in the beginning. If you turn away then come back & truly repent, yes you can be forgiven & still be a child of God.
---candice on 1/27/11

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First let me say that your question is of monumental importance. There is no peace for those who think they can fall. If a saved man by his behavior can escape the grace of God, then he has just made himself(a man) stronger than God.
Where in the Word of God does it say that God's seal(we of course are sealed by the Holy Spirit) can be broken?
Backslide yes, every person on the face of the earth is backslidden to some degree. If salvation is by works how much (works) is enough?
If they saved a person can fall from grace then God himself has lied. Because he says, I give them eternal life. Eternal life and falling from grace are opposites both cannot be true!!
---mima on 1/27/11

Paul - The reason you have not found any scripture for this, is because there is NONE. Infact, the ONLY scriptures on the subject deal with there NOT being eternal security for those who backslide (Revelation 3:5,16). The "once saved, always saved" doctrine is NOT scriptural, but a man-made doctrine to ease the feeling of guilt for unrepented sins.
---Leslie on 1/27/11

There is no eternal security. The security is while you "remain in me" (John 15:4-6) and while we "continue in his kindness" (Romans 11:22). When a person turns from doing right, the Lord will forget the good that that person has done. (Ezekiel 18:24-27) Everything else is just cheap grace talk that goes beyond the whole of scripture. While salvation is through Jesus, there is a cross for us. But all us are prodigal. No one is righteous. No not one. Or shall we say, "Let us do evil that good may result." (Romans 3:8)
---Mike on 1/27/11

\\There are some who "walk the aisle", repeat the "sinners prayer" are "baptized", "speak the word", and become quite fluent in Christian-speak They have had an "experience" which they think makes them a Christian.\\

Not only themselves, but others.

This is a theme of the novel ELMER GANTRY.
---Cluny on 1/27/11

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The question therefore is, can a true Christian backslide? Of course. One has to look at King Solomon's life. Because he was God's beloved (like Jacob and all the other saints in the Scripture), God's promise was eternal life. But make no mistake, God will chastise the Christian for their sins through sanctification. Why? Because He loves them (Hebrews 12:3-11).

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24

Salvation is 100% God's work. Man is the beneficiary of His grace (work).
---christan on 1/26/11

you should buy a book by Joseph Dillow, also kown as Jody Dillow.

The title is

"Reign of the Servant Kings: a study of eternal security and the final significance of man"

While I do not subscribe to every detail of the book, it does a wonderful job of establishing a middle ground in the debate on eternal security.

The short of it is that your phrase "an heir to heaven" is at the center of the misunderstanding.

Going to heaven is not an inheritance, and going to heaven is not a reward.

Going to heaven is free through faith in Jesus APART from works.
---James_L on 1/26/11

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
---francis on 1/26/11

THAT IS NOT WHAT ETERNAL SECURITY MEANS. Read Romans 6 & that's enough to let you know you cannot "freely sin". Eternal security is faith that God who saved you from hell is able to keep you. Once saved we have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside us & He keeps us from "LIVING" in sin. Once you sin, it grieves Him & your conscience is pricked to the point of guilt which will lead to repentance then turning from that sin. When someone is LIVING in sin, they are not save. Only claiming to be.
---Reba on 1/26/11

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"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) If God joins us to Jesus with His almighty power, I'd say we can not get away from Him and how His love in the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5) will make us become "as He is . . . in this world." (please see 1 John 4:17)

But ones copy-cat what they are told to do, then they fall away. John clearly says, "They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us," in 1 John 2:19."

"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ," (Philippians 1:6) God finishes what He has truly begun (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/26/11

There are some who "walk the aisle", repeat the "sinners prayer" are "baptized", "speak the word", and become quite fluent in Christian-speak They have had an "experience" which they think makes them a Christian.

But they have NOT been redeemed, born again or saved by grace through faith.

All the "Christian" things they say and do are by their own will and determination.(They do the best they can) But after awhile their good "feelings" about God wear thin and they grow tired. And God hasn't given them what they prayed for... They still THINK they are Christians.....but..they don't act like it anymore.

They NEED to understand the GOSPEL.
---Donna66 on 1/26/11

\\1. One must first differentiate between salvation by grace and salvation by works.\\

And we also need to distinguish both of these from being rewarded according to our workd.
---Cluny on 1/26/11

Before you are led astray by false teaching, brother, know that FAITH is not a work. Therefore salvation by faith is NOT considered salvation by works. Grace is accessed by faith (Romans 5:2)

The Parable of the Prodigal Son will help you a lot. (Luke 15) It one of my favorites. Each time we come back to the Father the deeper the love we hold for Him because we see new mercies.

We all fall, Paul. When we come to our senses and hit our knees, our Father is ready to receive us again, even when we feel we are no longer worthy to be called sons.
---CraigA on 1/27/11

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I understand we are saved by grace of which you can fall away from.
The Bible is plain about cretin things that one cant do and make it into Heaven doing, unrepentant sin will disallow you to be granted entry.
I know in mans narcissism he thinks he is great and that God should just love him for creation sake, but you must live Holy for without it no man will see God.
---paul on 1/27/11

1. One must first differentiate between salvation by grace and salvation by works.
2. A Christian according to Scripture is saved by grace, ie. nothing he has done that God is obligated to save him.

Scripture reminds the Christian - "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Philippians 2:12,13

When the Christian fears God, it is because God is working in him to fear Him. Hence, fear of God will lead one to repentance unto life.
---christan on 1/26/11

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
---micha9344 on 1/26/11

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