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Only Honor God With Your Lips

When the Lord says, "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain, their teachings (traditions of men) are but rules taught by men". Is he speaking of your church?

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It's speaking of YOU, mima.

You live by traditions of men such as sinner's prayers.
---Cluny on 3/17/11


Well er,..... beat me a thousand strokes with a braided camel tail. ---Trav on 2/28/11

Consider it done
---francis on 3/3/11

Ow,ow, ow,yi,yi,yi....999 times.

Thanks. Ow, 1000.
May our friendship always be as productive to both.

Proverbs 18:15
The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.
---Trav on 3/6/11


Well er,..... beat me a thousand strokes with a braided camel tail. ---Trav on 2/28/11

Consider it done
---francis on 3/3/11


You did err, Mark spoke of circumcision and the like as " jewish heritage" I simple pointed out that this is not jewish heritate, but the word of God.
---francis on 2/28/11

Well er,..... beat me a thousand strokes with a braided camel tail. We should be square then.
Strange, how there was a stranger context too. Hmmm

Acts 7:8
And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
---Trav on 2/28/11


If I erred in misunderstanding your context....which I may have please.....explain where.
---Trav on 2/28/11

You did err, Mark spoke of circumcision and the like as " jewish heritage" I simple pointed out that this is not jewish heritate, but the word of God.

What i posted had nothing to do with strangers, just to say that circumcision, passover and th elike is not " jewish heritage" but the word of God.

The word stranger just happened to be in the passage
---francis on 2/28/11




Trav, ... your attempts fail when the Word of God speaks against you.
Romans 2:12
...."For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, are a law to themselves"...---Mark_V. on 2/28/11

Fail? It's not my "truth","Gospel".

Pointing out linking witness to the OBEDIENT "sheep" on your post above.
Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, ....
Hebrews 8:10
this is the covenant that I will make with HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 2/28/11


Trav, while you very much want to make the whole gospel for Israel only, your attempts fail when the Word of God speaks against you.
Romans 2:12
"For as many as have sinned without the law will also parish without the law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judge by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. (Now hear this) "For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, are a law to themselves"
Their practice of some good deeds, and their aversion to some evil ones demonstrate an innate knowledge of God's law-a knowledge that will actually witness against them on the day of Judgment.
---Mark_V. on 2/28/11


CONSIDER THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I AM SPEAKING
---FRANCIS on 2/27/11

If I erred in misunderstanding your context....which I may have please.....explain where.
---Trav on 2/28/11


There are over 6 words for stranger,foreigner,sojourner in the Old Covenant....
---Trav on 2/23/11

CONSIDER THE CONTEXT IN WHICH I AM SPEAKING
---FRANCIS on 2/27/11


Trav, ....Gal. 4:5. That passage is not speaking only to Jews but to all who are under the law. V.
...., born under the law, came to REDEEM THOSE who were under the law" ---Mark_V. on 2/25/11

I give you more context always, than you can deal with.
Redeem those under the Law.

Only Israel was under GOD's Law,READ IT.
Redeem is to buy back something previously held.

Only Israel....was put away by this law.
Freed by Christ death.

The New Covenant say's it is with two party's. Both are Israel.
Heb 8:8 ....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 2/26/11




Trav, it's easy for you to say what you say without giving the context of the passages as you did with Gal. 4:5. That passage is not speaking only to Jews but to all who are under the law. V. 4:3 "when we were children of bondage" he was not speaking of slavery but bondage to sin. "In the fullness of time Christ born of a woman, born under the law, came to redeem those who were under the law" Guilty sinners are under the law's demand and its curses and in need of a Savior(3:23) At this very moment, all who are not in Christ, are under the law's demands and its curses.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/11


Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD,---francis on 2/23/11

There are over 6 words for stranger,foreigner,sojourner in the Old Covenant. This one above would be a near kinsmen or distantly related.
The Hebrew reading/translation should be weighed for understanding.
A cousin you've never met...is a stranger to you until established as a cousin.
Gay, doesn't mean happy today like it did 40 years ago either.
Hosea 1:11Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
---Trav on 2/23/11


---Mark_Eaton on 2/22/11 yeah What you call " jewish heritage" Is really " the word of God." If you are talking about circumcision:
Genesis 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee, Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it, and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof
---francis on 2/23/11


Unless ofcourse you have something outside of the bible which you are spekaing of.
---francis on 2/21/11

We can argue this forever as long as you continue to misunderstand the ENTIRE chapter of Galatians 2.

Gal. 2 tells us that NO FLESH will be justified by works of the Law and if righteous came from the Law then Christ died needlessly.

So then, if a Jew want to continue to circumsize his sons after he has faith in Christ, what is that to me a Gentile? I know it will not make the Jewish man righteous, nor will it make me unrighteous. It simply is a matter of Jewish heritage now.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/22/11


Trav, you have given Matthew 15:24 a few times now to make a point, and if you look at Matt. 10:5-8 "lost sheep of Israel" Here Jesus priority first was Israel. At that particular time, Jesus narrows His priority even more when He said the gospel was only for those who knew they were spiritually sick ( 9:13) and needed a physician (Luke 5:31,32). They were not to go by way of the Gentiles. That didn't come until much later.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/11


Trav, God made promises to Abraham and his seed. Abraham's seed would continue in "Isaac" (---Mark_V. on 2/21/11


A lesson without Prophets/Christ?? Deut 29:13Acts 7:8..... Isaac begat Jacob,Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, glory, covenants, giving of law,service of God, and promises,
Galatians 4:5Matthew 15:24But he answered, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 2/21/11


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First point, the Gospel was to the Jew first. If they wanted to retain their heritage, what is that to us Gentiles? Second point, Peter was found to be wrong and was rebuked.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/17/11

What you call " jewish heritage" Is really " the word of God" Unless ofcourse you have something outside of the bible which you are spekaing of.

Second, Paul did not rebuke peter for teaching gentiles to live as Jews. Peter was rebuked for:
Galatians 2:12 Before certain came from James, Peter did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
---francis on 2/21/11


Trav, God made promises to Abraham and his seed. Abraham's seed would continue in "Isaac" (Rom. 9:7). Isaac was born when Abraham had faith in God's promise (Rom. 4:19-21). Isaac represents everyone who believes in Jesus and who receive the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith (Gal. 3:14, 4:22-28). All who have faith in Jesus Christ-Jews or Gentiles-are counted as the seed (Gal. 3:14, Rom. 9:8, 10:12). This seed is "the Israel of God in Jesus Christ" (Gal. 3:16,29, 6:14-16). God will fulfill His promises to this Israel (Gal. 3:29, 4:28, 6:14-16). Thus God promises to Israel have not been made of "no effect," even though some Jewish people don't believe in their own Messiah (Rom. 9:6-8).
---Mark_V. on 2/21/11


(Were under law.Clue)---Trav on 2/15/11

The question to you is which are you, "In Christ" or "Under the Law"?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/11

One who honors what GOD has stated by all Prophets/Apostles and YAHSHUA.
Whether I am or am not what difference is it to truth?
If I am a Sheep, I've been found. If I am not, I will be the most honoring "not" I can be.

Will GOD not do what he says he will do?
Will your feelings, misinterpretation change what GOD is going to do? For U?
Possibly....in a negative way, persisting in "un-witnessed doctrine". Choosing doctrines of men over "Truth"-"Gospel".
---Trav on 2/18/11


Are yuo kidding?
---francis on 2/17/11

Are you wanting to be Jewish? Unbelievable.

First point, the Gospel was to the Jew first. If they wanted to retain their heritage, what is that to us Gentiles? Second point, Peter was found to be wrong and was rebuked.

So then, your one solid proof seems to be Romans 11. Lets look at that specifically.

Rom 11:17 says we will be partakers of the rich root of the olive tree. What or rather Who is that "rich root"? Is it Jewishness?

Is 11:10 "Then in that day the nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples, And His resting place will be glorious. "

Jesus is the Root. We are grafted into Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/17/11


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Yes, but believers in Christ DO NOT become Jews.--Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11
Amen and worth repeating.
The believer in Christ does not become Jewish.
The tree we are grafted into is not a Jewish tree, It is a righteous tree brought forth by the Father through His Word and branched by faith of His saints which include Noah and Abraham.
lack of faith trims one from the tree. Heb 11:6
1Cor 12:13, Gal 3:28
We don't change from male to female, bond to free, Jew to Gentile, nor vice versa, we become one under Christ.
1Cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God
-Obviously there is a difference between the three.
---micha9344 on 2/17/11


Yes, but believers in Christ DO NOT become Jews.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11

Are yuo kidding?
to start with the jews who were converted to christianity were " zealous for the law" they did not abandon their jewish roots.Acts 21:20

Then peter was teaching the converted gentiles to live as jews: Galatians 2:14

And speaking to gentile converts paul reminded them that they were grafted in, Meaning Jesus did not plant a new tree, but grafted none hebrew believers into a hebrew / jewish tree
---francis on 2/17/11


Your jew and ur divorced " under law"Isralites residing/lost in Greece.
(Were under law.Clue)
---Trav on 2/15/11

The question to you is which are you, "In Christ" or "Under the Law"?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/11


Scripture doesn't agree with your wall though.---Trav on 2/14/11

You need to read the NT.
Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek,....
How can it be less clear?---Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11

KJV N.Covenant aligns side by side perfectly with all Prophets,Apostles an Christs own words in several thousand verses.
Your (NT?)doctrine depends on appx 6 cherry picked verses. U missed this one.
Galatians 4: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Your jew and ur divorced " under law"Isralites residing/lost in Greece.
(Were under law.Clue)
---Trav on 2/15/11


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Scripture doesn't agree with your wall though.
---Trav on 2/14/11

You need to read the NT.

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus"

How can it be less clear?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11


You could also say that Jews that accept Christ become "unJewish".

Eph 2:14 "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11

I agree in context of "judaic" practice.

Scripture doesn't agree with your wall though.

This dividing wall was between the two houses of Israel. The two sticks of Eze 37 and Covenant of Heb 8:8. will witness plus many other scriptures.
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
---Trav on 2/14/11


Fact is they BECAME JEWS.
which says that those who are not born jews can become jews
---francis on 2/13/11

Yes, but believers in Christ DO NOT become Jews.

We are to become one unified body in Christ. Because He knocked down all the walls that divide us, including heritage, race, gender, and economics.

You could also say that Jews that accept Christ become "unJewish".

Eph 2:14 "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/14/11


Reason FEAR.
It does not matter if it is fear, love, conversion, Fact is they BECAME JEWS.
which says that those who are not born jews can become jews
---francis on 2/13/11


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Gen 12:2-3 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you, I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Haman built the gallows for Mordecai, but he himself was hanged on it. Haman sought to kill Mordecai's people, but he and his whole family and all those who hated the Jews were killed instead. Haman sought to wipe out the worship of the one true God, but instead "many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them" (Esther 8:17). Haman who cursed the descendants of Abraham was himself cursed.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/11


You can be BORN a jew, or you can BECOME a JEW.

Esther 8:17 And many of the people of the land BECAME JEWS, ---francis on 2/12/11

Reason FEAR. Herod,Madonna,Dr Joyce, adopted the same.
Of what value is it...becoming a jew?
No prophet or scripture other than Esther witnesses or verifies Esther. A nice story.....for jews.

1 Corinthians 10:8
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
---Trav on 2/12/11


You can be BORN a jew, or you can BECOME a JEW.

Esther 8:17 And many of the people of the land BECAME JEWS, for the fear of the Jews fell upon them
---francis on 2/12/11


And yes all christians are jews. These who are non jewish / hebrew by birthhave been grafted in.
---francis on 2/8/11

There is a problem with your thesis...it sounds logical in one scripture...but, it is not supported throughout scripture.
This grafting is of the same tree. The tree of Israel.

Two parts to this tree..the Sheep and the Lost Sheep.
Two sticks if you prefer....ref Eze 37.
See the two parts in Heb 8:8.
You may be Judah with laws, or you may be Lost Sheep with laws in heart.....hard to tell. More scripture witnesses will show you....that U find.
---Trav on 2/11/11


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You use Heb. 8:10 as an example, but yet you miss a key phrase in it, THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. This includes everyone within the whole camp of Israel, converts and all.---Mark_Eaton on 2/10/11

Many decendants of Abraham. Judeans were just 1/12th.
Context "ethnos" given the laws in Hebrews 10 is the same context as Heb 8:8.
The Nth House of Israel (divorced) AND Judah.
All prophets + Matt 10: 6 & 15:24 will verify ....4 a better witness clarification.

Romans interesting letter in explaining marriage laws to Judah and speaks to both houses.
Scripture is profitable to anyone who follows it....correctly and in truth. Think I'll let GOD choose who likes for his wife. As I would you.
---Trav on 2/11/11


How can you rebuke on something you claim no part of?
---Trav on 2/10/11

You are correct in comparing the Romans 2 passage to the book of Hebrews, because the target audience is the same, Jews.

Does that mean that I cannot draw any truth from these books because I am not Jewish? Not at all.

However, it also does not mean that I can apply everything to me that applies to Jewish people. You need discernment and a keen eye.

You use Heb. 8:10 as an example, but yet you miss a key phrase in it, THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. This includes everyone within the whole camp of Israel, converts and all.

But, if the wording had been "DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM" that would not have included converts. Only Jews.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/10/11


So, unless you bear the name "Jew", Romans 2:29 does not apply to you.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/9/11

She may very well,(unknowingly) be of Israel noting the way "laws" of her heart/mind pull her. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

What about you? How can you apply anything in Romans, seeing how it is written to Israel & Judah? The laws according to Romans and Hebrews are only Israels. How can you rebuke on something you claim no part of?
Do you have these laws in 8:10?
Judah=1. Israel=12.
---Trav on 2/10/11


Romans 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter, whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
---francis on 2/9/11

This is the end of the discussion but what starts this discussion:

Rom 2:17 "But if you bear the name 'Jew' and rely upon the Law and boast in God"

THEN, you are REALLY a Jew if your circumcision is on the inside from the Spirit of God.

So, unless you bear the name "Jew", Romans 2:29 does not apply to you.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/9/11


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Francis--I wouldn't recommend telling any Jew that you are Jewish... unless you are prepared to explain the Gospel.. Either way, expect some flash back.
---Donna66 on 2/9/11


Are you a natural born decendant of Abraham?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/8/11
Romans 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter, whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
---francis on 2/9/11


And yes all christians are jews. These who are non jewish / hebrew by birthhave been grafted in.
---francis on 2/8/11

I think you have a misunderstanding in this area.

Rom 10:12 "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him"

In Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. We are all to be called Christians (Acts 11:26).

But after the flesh, there is a distinction.

Gen 17:8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God."

Are you a natural born decendant of Abraham?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/8/11


The woman who gives birth to a son who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron, who was caught up to God and to His throne can only be Israel, the sons of Abraham, the Jewish people. The woman cannot be the church, because Christ birthed the church.

Therefore, are you a Jew?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/8/11
Well when was Israel caught up to heaven? last i saw israel was still in middle east, JESUS was caught up to heaven. Jesus is to rule not israel.

And yes all christians are jews. These who are non jewish / hebrew by birthhave been grafted in.
---francis on 2/8/11


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In My church we do not use tradition of men we use commandments of God
---francis on 2/7/11

Perhaps it is your church.

The SDA core beliefs document says your church believes that you are the remnant that keeps Gods commandments in the last days apostacy. You use Rev 12:17 as an illustration of this fact. Yet your interpretation of this verse is faulty because it omits who is the woman whose child you are supposed to be?

The woman who gives birth to a son who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron, who was caught up to God and to His throne can only be Israel, the sons of Abraham, the Jewish people. The woman cannot be the church, because Christ birthed the church.

Therefore, are you a Jew?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/8/11


When the Lord says, "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain, their teachings (traditions of men) are but rules taught by men". Is he speaking of your church?
---mima on 1/31/11

No, I think he is speaking of your church. In My church we do not use tradition of men we use commandments of God
---francis on 2/7/11


He's speaking of those who consider themselves to be too spiritual to be a member of a local congregation.
---Cluny on 2/1/11
I do not think so the people who he was addressing were " church" goers

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the COMMAND MENT OF GOD, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother, and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
---francis on 2/7/11


God has created all things for His Holy purpose. In the Scripture, the Pharisees whom God created were to represent self-righteousness. They claim they know God and yet when He appeared before them, never even acknowledged Him but instead they were always trying to entrap Him and finally crucified Him.

However, the spirit of the Pharisees is alive and well at this present time doing the same work as the Pharisees of the old. Isaiah 64:6 describes this as "But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags, We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."
---christan on 2/2/11


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Mima
Sounds as though you have also dealt with the blindness that a doctrine can create.
It took me a long time to notice, that it is the false knowlege, the lies that we come to believe in, that makes us blind to the Truth, and it is our pride that causes us to keep those lies.

I have often wondered, what would have happened if the Pharisee's, who wouldn't answer the questions asked of them by Jesus, had answered those questions.
What do you think would have happened?
---David on 2/2/11


Mary: Maybe I overstated

Of course, a church that IS filled with the Spirit will know that

I was just warning (not you directly, but everyone) that some churches may start to fall away, but not realize it

But I did not intend to accuse YOUR church of that - I just feel we should be more sensitive to the 'needs' of our church than to its 'strengths'
---Steve on 2/1/11


\\Mima
What is a tradition of men, but those doctrines which are handed down from one generation to the next.\\

How do you think the Bible got here?
---Cluny on 2/1/11


Hi Steve, I didn't mean that we don't need to be purified anymore, no not at all. I just meant at my church it is so full of love and the Holy Spirit that we don't just honor God with our lips for the most part--we serve Him fully--but yeah, we need more.
---Mary on 2/1/11


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A post worth repeating--

"What is a tradition of men, but those doctrines which are handed down from one generation to the next.
Those doctrines that prevent men from seeking the Truth, the Truth which will lead them to Salvation."
---David on 2/1/11
---mima on 2/1/11


Mary: 'No, definitely not my church.'

dangerous thing to say

Very dangerous

God works in all of us, all ouor lives

Someone who says he/she need not be further purified may be in big trouble
---steve on 2/1/11


Nope.

He's speaking of those who consider themselves to be too spiritual to be a member of a local congregation.
---Cluny on 2/1/11


I'm sure that applies to all churches, more or less. There are no perfect churches.
---John.usa on 1/31/11


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mostley individuals. A person can act like they're worshipping Jesus & his father God, but they aren't at all. Yes this can reflect the Pastors as well,which fliter through the individuals.
---candice on 2/1/11


As Peter declared in Acts 15:8,9 -

"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

Ezekiel 36:26,27
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

This is the doctrine of regeneration also taught in John 3:1-12.
---christan on 2/1/11


Mima
What is a tradition of men, but those doctrines which are handed down from one generation to the next.
Those doctrines that prevent men from seeking the Truth, the Truth which will lead them to Salvation.
---David on 2/1/11


No, definitely not my church.
---Mary on 1/31/11


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