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Baptism Needed For Salvation

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

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 ---Peter on 2/3/11
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try comparing scripture with scripture
---michael_e on 2/14/11


michael e,
1Cor 12:13 Paul does not say "refer to my epistle to the Ephesians"

It doesn't matter who Steohanus, Chrispus and Gaius were, considering PAUL himself said there is no difference between Jew and Greek. He did say that, right?

Doesn't Jesus (in a former dispensation) offer HIS BODY (bread and wine) TO JEWS, no less. What was He thinking? But Paul was writing to the BoC to do this in remembrance too, right?

Maybe there weren't any gentiles at Corinth, huh? But it was to those that Paul wrote about the "one baptism for the age of grace" being the Spirit?

Add it up for us
---James_L on 2/14/11


// He doesn't elaborate on what he means by "one immersion" either//
1Cor 12:13 is clear as to what he means, you are placed INTO the boC by one baptism, nothing to do with water.
//well at least one faction of it//
which faction would that be?

you might want to check out who Stephanas, Cripus and Gaius were.
---michael_e on 2/14/11


\\Paul addressing the boC, not the nation of Israel, says there is One baptism necessary for salvation.\\
---michael_e on 2/13/11

There you go adding words again. The verse says ONE BAPTISM, not "one baptism necessary for salvation".

He doesn't elaborate on what he means by "one immersion" either. The context of the passage is UNITY of believers (verses 3, 13)

Paul also addressing the BoC (well at least one faction of it) says "I thank God I (that is PAUL not the Holy Spirit) baptized none of you except Crispus and his household" (1Cor 1:6)

So did Paul do a Benny Hinn impersonation by waving his arm across the room and "unleashing" the Holy Spirit?
---James_L on 2/14/11


\\\\water baptism has no place in God's program today\\\\

Yes, it does.

If not, why did our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ command it?
---Cluny on 2/13/11




//God forbid we refuse to acknowlege the various baptisms in the NT//

acknowledgment is different than imitation.

the ones who believe in one baptism absolutely acknowledges and mostly understands the significance of all modes of baptism. but, i will say that those stuck in the mire of mixed theologies do not understand the progression from water baptism to one baptism, which really counts in the end.

we have the luxury of clean water to argue about baptism. what about the lands that do not? do they have the luxury of baptism without water? Give them a break. Jesus did.
---aka on 2/13/11


Not necessarily. For those who are unable, Christ was baptized in their stead. He certainly did not need conversion, repentance of sin. etc. Baptism is the memorial of the resurrection - not Sunday sacredness.

Rom 6:4,5 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
---jerry6593 on 2/13/11


Paul addressing the boC, not the nation of Israel, says there is One baptism necessary for salvation.
As we acknowledge the various baptisms it's plain to see what belongs to Israel, and what belongs to us the boC
---michael_e on 2/13/11


Nice, neat philosophy, but you didn't address the text

\\What could be accomplished by water baptism that Christ didn't accomplish at Calvary?\\

It's not a matter of accomplishment, but rather a means by which we access certain benefits. Like in 1John 1:9 we can't have "forgiveness" if we don't confess our sins. Is that adding?


\\water baptism has no place in God's program today\\

It's not a "program" it's God's grace


\\God forbid that we add to that "one baptism" which unites us to Christ and makes us complete in Him.\\

God forbid we refuse to acknowlege the various baptisms in the NT
---James_L on 2/12/11


"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath BLESSED US WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST" (Eph 1:3).

In light of such completeness in Christ given to the believer the moment of salvation, What could be accomplished by water baptism that Christ didn't accomplish at Calvary?

If this is faced honestly, it's apparent water baptism has no place in God's program today, It only takes away from the glorious, all-sufficient, finished work of the lord Jesus Christ (Col. 2:20).

We thank God that "by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body(water?)." God forbid that we add to that "one baptism" which unites us to Christ and makes us complete in Him.
---michael_e on 2/12/11




michael e,
Ephesians 4:5 says "one baptism" and not "one baptism in the age of grace"

Since we cannot deny that there were Jews and Gentiles baptized (in this age of grace), I would contend that either this passage is wrong (because there is more than one baptism), OR maybe you're mis-applying it by adding "in this age of grace" which isn't there

There is a context, which is walking in a manner worthy of our calling, and preserving unity (v 1-3).

I have said many times that it is not always clear what the NT means by baptism. The word means immersion, but in or into what? The passage simply doesn't say.

And asking "what else could it be?" won't do. That's pure conjecture
---James_L on 2/12/11


\\I see no evidence of baptisim until the New Testament. (new covenant) after Christ was born. \\

Actually, you will see "baptism" used in the Gospels for various ritual washings, even of household utensils.

This is referring to the ritual bath or Mikveh (both the washing itself and where it took place), a standard Jewish practice used for many different things to this day.

ALL priests of the Temple had to immerse themselves in the Mikveh before they performed their ministry. This is mentioned in the Talmud and Josephus.

Women still perform this after their periods and childbirth.

More to come.
---Cluny on 2/12/11


I think it is a stretch to call what the high priest had to do a baptisim. I see no evidence of baptisim until the New Testament. (new covenant) after Christ was born. Baptisim is an act of faith that your sins are forgiven. Jesus commands in mat.28:19 to baptise that is good enough for me
---dowanor on 2/12/11

New covenant does not start until the death of Jesus. The baptism of John was an OT baptism.
---francis on 2/12/11


"I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,...
"And I baptized also the household of Stephannas: besides,...
"For CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, but to preach the gospel.." (I Cor. 1:14-17)
under the "great commission" Paul couldn't say this.
God is reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body through faith in the Cross work of Christ (Eph. 2:13-18).

When the believer trusts Christ, "by one Spirit (he is) "baptized into one body (1 Cor. 12:13) and "baptized into Christ" (Gal. 3:27).
the "one baptism" (Eph. 4:5) into the "one body" is performed by "one Spirit"-not man.

---michael_e on 2/12/11


The high priest in OT law had to Baptized,
---RICHARDC on 2/6/11
I think it is a stretch to call what the high priest had to do a baptisim. I see no evidence of baptisim until the New Testament. (new covenant) after Christ was born. Baptisim is an act of faith that your sins are forgiven. Jesus commands in mat.28:19 to baptise that is good enough for me
---dowanor on 2/12/11


michael e,
why do you keep referring to Acts 2:38 when it has already been established that those men were believers?

Why did Peter go to the temple in the very next chapter and say nothing about baptism? or remission of sins?

Why did Peter tell those in chapter 3 to be converted, while no mention of being converted to those in chapter 2?

Why does 2:41 say the men were baptised, yet 4:4 says those at the temple believed?

Because those in ch 2 were believers before Peter preached, and those in ch 3 were not.
---James_L on 2/12/11


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David,
Galatians 3:2-3 says:
"This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"

I don't recall any passage in scripture which says we are to follow Jesus in obedience to the Law.

We are to walk in a manner worthy of our calling (Eph 4:1). That means servanthood, suffering, humility, faith, love, unity, etc.

To take a "better safe than sorry" approach to baptism or any works of the Law is to admit that you don't trust Jesus to have accomplished all things for you.
---James_L on 2/12/11


With "the fall of Israel" God raised Paul, sends "salvation to the Gentiles." water baptism changed
First indicator, Peter's with Cornelius (Acts 10)

the Lord shows Peter a change (Acts 10:28), also a change in baptism.

.."WHILE PETER YET SPAKE THESE WORDS, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON ALL THEM WHICH HEARD THE WORD....
"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished.. (Acts 10:43-45).

Acts 2 Repent, baptism, HS
All Gentiles had to do to receive the HS was believe, without baptism of repentance (Acts 2:38). Peter THEN baptizes, (Acts 10:45-48).

Water baptism was different than with Israel. Paul's attitude toward baptism shows this change:
(ICor 1:14-17)
---michael_e on 2/12/11


\\Those who now speak in tongues have much to say about speaking in tongues.

Those who will not experience the spiritual rebirth have much to say about the spiritual rebirth.

How ridiculous!!!
---mima on 2/11/11\\

But this is not half as ridiculous as people who make big pronouncements about matters they know nothing about, such as other churches.

There are those who once spoke in tongues and learned what a falsehood it is.

There are also those who were taught falsely about what "spiritual rebirth" means, and learn better.
---Cluny on 2/11/11


samuel, the issue for me is that when the word baptism is used, immersion in water is automatically assumed. baptism means full immersion in something. John said that he baptizes in water Jesus will baptize in Holy Spirit and fire, Joel in the OT spoke of spiritual baptism, Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Paul speaks of one baptism (does not seem to be water in nature)...We know that Jesus paid temple taxes. Just because it did not say that Jesus offered sacrifices, we know he did, so why not do everything that Jesus did? Because we cannot, and that is the point...Every human ceremony involves some degree of human work. baptism of the Spirit is only of God. (i am not referring to 'charasmatic' ritual.)
---aka on 2/11/11


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Why refuse to follow the example of JESUS. True we are filled with the HOLY SPIRIT from the time we accept JESUS. But that does not negate the fact that JESUS said to be baptized in reference to water in His command to the church.

People must be taught then baptized.
---Samuel on 2/11/11


Those who now speak in tongues have much to say about speaking in tongues.

Those who will not experience the spiritual rebirth have much to say about the spiritual rebirth.

How ridiculous!!!
---mima on 2/11/11


\\
Why would anyone want to make Spirit baptism into water baptism?\\

Rather, the real question is why anyone would want to make water baptism into spirit baptism.

Quit trying to be more spiritual than God.
---Cluny on 2/11/11


One baptism today in the age of grace. Eph.4:5

Christ died for us, was raised for us, was circumcised for us, was he also water baptized for us? Col. 2:10-12
Why was Jesus baptized? (Matt. 3:15)
according to the Bible we are placed into the Body of Christ today by 1Cor. 12:13 & Rom. 6:1-4

No mention of WATER in the above passages.

Why would anyone want to make Spirit baptism into water baptism?
---michael_e on 2/11/11


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\\i will never deny anyone a water baptism. but, in the end there is one baptism. so, my choice is between baptism: spiritual or physical. i have decided it is spiritual in nature, and a majority has decided on physical baptism.\\

What majority?

The pre-Reformation Churches are they vast majority.

They, as well as the Bible itself, say that baptism is done with WATER, though it has spiritual effects.

Only the minority of Christians say that Baptism is merely a spiritual event.

It's not an either-or, but a both-and.
---Cluny on 2/10/11


James
Jesus Christ was baptized, and we are to walk in his ways, and that is my whole point.
It doesn't take very long for someone to be baptized, and it's better to be safe than to be sure.
---David on 2/11/11


Perhaps, Cluny, but you are reading into what I wrote.

The scripture I gave is for the people who contend that baptism is like a bath to clean us.

Anyway, I believe that a good conscience is spiritual.

I believe that nothing spiritual can be acquired by humans without the experience of the physical..."must be born of water and of the Spirit".

i will never deny anyone a water baptism. but, in the end there is one baptism. so, my choice is between baptism: spiritual or physical. i have decided it is spiritual in nature, and a majority has decided on physical baptism.
---aka on 2/10/11


David,
I did not say that the Pharisees were the best Law keepers. I said they were the best RULES keepers.

2Cor 3:5-6
"...our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a NEW covenant, Not Of The Letter, But Of The Spirit. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life."

The letter of the Law is RULES. The Pharisees did this well.

The spirit of the Law is LIBERTY. The Pharisees did NOT do this.

Matt 22:35-40
You shall love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul and mind.
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
On These Two Commandments Depend The Whole Law And Prophets.

We are not bound to rules, but love.
---James_L on 2/9/11


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\\1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

spirit v. physical
---aka on 2/9/11\\

Nothing here about baptism being only a "spiritual" experience. You are simply reading that into the passage.

This is NOT to say that God never accomplishes spiritual ends through physical means. This is throughout the New Testament.
---Cluny on 2/9/11


1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

spirit v. physical
---aka on 2/9/11


baptism is NOT needed. However, it is the first commandment or act of obedience after salvation. Practically, baptism symbolizes you following Jesus to death, going underwater, and rebirth, rising out of water,which is awesome. The act of obedience changes your mind set of being second not my will but GOD's will. Celebrated 74 baptisms at church this past month freaken awesome.
---Scott on 2/9/11


... yet they claimed to be his children just like you Trav.
Clearly natural lineage alone is not enough. Mark_V. on 2/8/11

Witness is "Lost Sheep of Nth House Nations of 10", having lost their "Married" name, and their way back being hedged....do not even realize who they are. A protective beautiful thing.
BTW...I don't know either.
Regardless it does not change the witnessed truth found by the thousands. Except to the fearful/unfaithful, it seems.
Isaiah 42:16I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not, I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.
---Trav on 2/9/11


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The Pharisees were the best rules keepers, by the way.
---James_L on 2/8/11

James
Jesus called the Pharisees Hypocrites.
Why Did Jesus call them Hypocrites, if they were the best keepers of the Law?
Even though they were the teachers of the Law, they did not keep the Law.
And the only way for us to exceed the righteousness of a hypocritical teacher of the Law, is to keep the Law.
How do I know this is what the Lord meant when he called them Hypocrites?
Because in (Matthew 23:3) the Lord said this about the Pharisees,
"Do as they say, not as they do".
---David on 2/9/11


David, the one thing you do when you talk is you place yourself under the Covenant of works of the law. I don't know why you do that if you are saved by Grace through faith in Christ Jesus. You were removed from that group but you still want to be a part of that group. That group has not been saved. That is why the law is still very much in effect. All those under the law are still condemned, they break one, they break them all. Because they cannot keep all of the law. They need a Savior, Jesus Christ to remove them from the condemnation of the law. You and some others refuse to leave the law. And attempt to put everyone else back under the law. Sorry, but we are under the grace of God, through Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/11


NO, belief is necessary. Its no different than the thief on the cross who will be in heaven when you get there.
---larry on 2/9/11


Eloy-- From what version of of the Bible are you quoting Mark 16:15-16? You did use quotation marks.

Or were you paraphasing?
---Donna66 on 2/8/11


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Now that is interesting James ... When those who do not beleive in Jesus are judged according to their works ... what will then happen to them?

There nwill be those who did bad things, and those who did good things. What will happen to each?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/8/11


No, David. I will not be there, and I will not be judged that way. That judgement is for those who are not believers in Jesus.

Believers will be judged by that Law of Liberty (James 2:12)

If you think Godliness is found in a set of rules, you might want to read Matthew 5.

Jesus said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Pharisees were the best rules keepers, by the way.
---James_L on 2/8/11


We are not bound to a list of rules and regulations. That amounts to legalism.
---JamesL on 2/6/11

James
Notice in the scripture below, you will be judged on "rules and regulations".
Is God a Legalist too?
(Revelation 20:12-13)
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
---David on 2/8/11


Richard, it was a law set by God. When the High Priest, (Aaron and his family were chosen by God as priest) and they entered the Holy of Holies they would tie a rope to his ankle before he went in, and if he was not cleansed as God had told him, he would be struck dead. If the other priest or ministers outside the Holy of Holies did not hear any noise coming from within for a while, they would pull the body of the priest out by pulling the rope, because they could not go in themselves, only the High Priest once a year. The instructions by God are found in many places but beginning in Exodus 30:17-21.
---Mark_V. on 2/8/11


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MARKV Was that baptism of OT High priests was that a law of men or was a law from GOD?
---RICHARD on 2/7/11


Richard, you don't have to pull the verses out because it is true, the very reason I said He had to do the law perfect without sin. Baptism is a sign of cleansing and a sign of the remission of our sins. The High Priest in the Old Testament had to be cleanse (baptized in water) before entering into the temple. Which was a law. It also signifies being regenerated when done by the Holy Spirit, being buried and raised together with Christ. The power of baptism is not in the water but in the power of God. The validity of baptism does not rest upon the character of the minister who performs it or the character of the person who receives it. Baptism is a sign of the promise of God of salvation to all who believe in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/7/11


MARKV 2/5/11 Mark the reason Christ was baptized is because he was consider a high priest,The high priest in OT law had to Baptized,It would take me a bit to put all the verses together for this,but I'am sure this is right.
---RICHARDC on 2/6/11


David, Obedience is required of all of us. But since we are not always obedient, and God knows that, we fail many times. But our failure does not mean we will lose salvation. Or not get it because of it. Since we are not saved by our merits. It was required of Jesus, because He had to be without sin. And He was. None of us are without sin, for all come short of the glory of God, and the very reason that we needed Jesus to do what man could not do. Complete the law perfect. For we are not under the law but under Grace. The baptism of water done by believers is an action man does, by been moved by the Spirit who now resites within us, and all obedience is because of God, and the reason He gets all the glory. He gets no glory from disobedience.
---Mark_V. on 2/6/11


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david,

forive me for taking liberty and not saying all the law.

since the law included baptism, do you think we should also be responsible for fulfilling the whole law? why only water baptism?
---aka on 2/6/11


\\Jesus also fulfilled the Law, did he do that so you wouldn't have to live in obedience to God?

(Matthew 5:17)
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.\\
---David on 2/6/11

David, if you keep reading Matt 5, you might see that Jesus said whoever relaxes a commandment will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

We are not bound to a list of rules and regulations. That amounts to legalism.
---JamesL on 2/6/11


Jesus was sent to fulfill all, so we do not have to
---aka on 2/5/11

Jesus also fulfilled the Law, did he do that so you wouldn't have to live in obedience to God?

(Matthew 5:17)
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
---David on 2/6/11


//If God required his Son to be baptized, don't you think it would be required, of those who wish to be his Sons?//

Then God must require all of us to go to temple, to live only in Israel, to pay taxes to Caesar, to celebrate all the Jewish festivals, to die on a wooden crucifix...

Jesus was sent to fulfill all, so we do not have to and so He can send us the Spirit so we can be comforted and strengthened in Him while is not with us on Earth.
---aka on 2/5/11


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//[Water] Baptism is an outward sign of an inward conversion done in obedience to Jesus Christ//

We could say that the marriage ceremony is an outward sign of an inward commitment to your spouse. However, the true outward sign is commitment, integrity, fidelity, and more of the like.

Water baptism is an outward ceremony done in obedience to the church performing the baptism ceremony. This is not a true measure of the heart necessarily.

I know people who have entered and admitted sham marriages and sham baptisms, but participated in the "outward" sign.

An outward sign of our obedience to Jesus is the fruit of the Spirit...being immersed in something that is not of us .
---aka on 2/5/11


Man cannot gain salvation by his own works. ---Mark_V

Mark
I agree with your statement above, but
Why was Jesus baptized?
Wasn't it to fulfill all righteousness?
Fulfill- to satisfy, as in a requirement or an obligation.
Righteousness- Satisfying Gods requirements.

If God required his Son to be baptized, don't you think it would be required, of those who wish to be his Sons?
---David on 2/5/11


Baptism is necessary for salvation, but not water.
Eph.4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

There are different types of baptisms Not all are water. During Israel's exodus from Egypt,
I Cor. 10:1,2 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
"And WERE ALL BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES IN THE CLOUD AND IN THE SEA:"
Obviously not a "water baptism" Israel crossed the Red Sea on "dry ground" (Ex 14:22) Pharaoh,s army, was in the water as it came down in judgment. Israel is said to have been baptized. For Israel this was a dry baptism!
---michael_e on 2/5/11


Al, the criminal could have easily been baptized long before he was ever crucified.
---Eloy on 2/5/11


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David, you said,
"Wasn't Jesus baptized?
Didn't God say, "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased," right after Jesus was baptized?"

Jesus was baptized alright. He never sinned against the law. That is why He can pay our debt. While it is true that He commands those who are saved to be baptize, if we are dogmatic about it, many who believed in the Lord and cannot be baptized would then indicate they were not saved. But that is not true at all, because baptism does not save anyone. That is an act man does, and man cannot gain salvation by his own works.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/11


Baptism is the a believers second act as a Christian. First is verbal confession of their belief and submission to his Lordship. Second is to follow him in baptism. In other words you have to be saved to receive scriptural baptism. You do not receive salvation by getting wet.
---Harold on 2/5/11


Donna_Smith,
What I was trying to demonstrate is that the bible uses "salvation" to mean more than "saved from hell". Read Mark V comment too.

Salvation IS conferred through baptism. 1 Pet 3:21 says specifically that baptism SAVES you, and that unto a clear conscience.

Peter preached a baptism FOR the remission of sins, so did John the Baptist. Much paper has been wasted on trying to twist the words, but it means baptized INTO forgiveness of sins. Paul was told to wash his sins away after he became a believer (Acts 9:17-18, 22:13-16)

Can you show anywhere in the bible that says baptism is MERELY a symbol?

A Jew could open his robe and show his circumcision, can baptism be proven like that?
---James_L on 2/4/11


\\Baptism is not needed, belonging to an established church is not needed, being born again is not needed. Remember the criminal on the cross at the side of Jesus, instant salvation.\\

And this was BEFORE Jesus established the Church and gave the commandment to be baptized, too.
---Cluny on 2/4/11


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Baptism is not needed, belonging to an established church is not needed, being born again is not needed. Remember the criminal on the cross at the side of Jesus, instant salvation.
---Al on 2/4/11


If baptism is essentially unnecessary, it should be dispensed with, as the Salvation Army has done.
---John.usa on 2/3/11

You have a misunderstanding. Perhaps the word "necessary" that is used in the question is causing it.

Baptism is not a "must have" for salvation. If it was, then we have a direct contradiction with Acts 2:21 and Rom 10:13. And we know that Scripture does not contradict itself, so our understanding must be flawed.

However, we must perform baptism just as we must perform communion. We must do it as obedience to Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/4/11


God says, Yes, baptism indeed is for Salvation, but unsaved sinners say, No: Jesus says: "Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. When once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being few, that being eight lives were saved by water: then a before type, now baptism saves us, not a putting off of rank skin, but a good conscience up-praying up to God through resurrection of Jesus Christ." Mk.16:15,16+ I Pt.3:20,21.
---Eloy on 2/4/11


James L.-- Baptism does indeed bring about a clear conscience/temporal forgiveness. But it is not the only way of attaining this...or else we would likely need repeated Baptisms.

And baptism does nothing to confer salvation. It merely symbolizes what salvation has accomplished.

The salvation Army does not attempt to be everything a church is. Most members of the Salvation Army have been baptized at some time, somewhere.But one does not need to be baptized to belong.

---Donna_Smith on 2/3/11


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Jesus says: "Go all you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned. When once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being few, that being eight lives were saved by water: then a before type, now baptism saves us, not a putting off of rank skin, but a good conscience up-praying up to God through resurrection of Jesus Christ." Mk.16:15,16+ I Pt.3:20,21.
---Eloy on 2/4/11


Robert ... "As it is written no man can call Jesus accursed speaking by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues) and no man can say Jesus is lord except by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues)"

Where is it written that you can't say Jesus is Lord except by talking in tongues?

Where does it say that tongues is an essential proof that one is saved?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/4/11


Here are Some things your must take into account before making up you mind:

If we are followers of Jesus, Shouldn't we follow the pattern set by Jesus Christ?
Wasn't Jesus baptized?
Didn't God say, "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased," right after Jesus was baptized?
When did the Holy Spirit decend on Jesus, before of after he was baptized?
If baptism was required for Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit and to be called Son of God, wouldn't it be required of us?

Peter seemed to think so.
(Acts 2:38)
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
---David on 2/4/11


James L, very good points. When people talk here about salvation they do not define what they are saying. The biblical meaning of salvation is broad and varied. When Israel escapes defeat at the hands of her enemies in battle, she is said to be saved.
Rebirth, is only the beginning of a persons life, salvation is the accumulation of all those things you mentioned. In the Bible salvation is also mentioned in the past tense, present tense and in a future tense from the wrath of God. But people use the word 'salvation' very offend without defining the context.
If the question had been, "can a person be saved without been baptize?" it would be different. The answer is yes, because we are saved by Grace through faith.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/11


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It would be wrong and anti-biblical to dispense with baptizing. What is needed is a clear understanding that baptism(an outward sign of an inward action) is to follow salvation. Baptism does not cause salvation but being baptized is brought about by being saved.
---mima on 2/4/11


If baptism is essentially unnecessary, it should be dispensed with, as the Salvation Army has done.
---John.usa on 2/3/11


Mark 16:16 says it is necessary. Along John 3. There is a good book on everything necessary for salvation it is called The Abcs of Salvation you can get it on Amazon.
Subtitle: Your handbook to salvation false doctrine and overcoming the mental illness that prevents faith.
---spencer_doris on 2/3/11


Is baptism necessary for salvation? It depends on what you mean by "salvation"

redemption/justification = salvation, comes only through believing in Jesus (Rom 3-4)

resurrection body = salvation, comes to every person, believer or not (Rom 5, 7:24-25)

Clear conscience/temporal forgiveness = salvation, through baptism (Rom 6, 1Pet 3:21, Acts 22:16)

Sanctification = salvation, through walking in the Spirit (Rom 6)

Rewards = salvation, through faith + works (James 2, Matt 5-6)

Inheritance = salvation, through suffering (Rom 8-11, Heb 1-2 & 11-12)
---James_L on 2/3/11


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Calling on the name of The Lord, Yes. Colo. 3 v 17 which Is Jesus Christ. You take the believe - faith scriptures & apply them with Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v 38, Matt.24 v 13.
Like Most starting with the rcc
Are here, John 10 v 1. One man stole in, Matt.22 v's 11 - 13, he didn't have on the wedding garment, in other words, The Salvation from God, Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v 38 which Fulfills Matt. 28 v 19. There Is only One God & He has only One Salvation with One Church.
2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15 has churches with salvation plans, easy believism, no works salvation the sinners prayer etc. John 10 v 1.
---Lawrence on 2/3/11


The Christian Baptism is, as John the Baptist said, of fire (spirit) not of water. The water bbaptism is part of the Jewish Law that was put aside when Jesus acended to the right hand of God and the day of Pentecost came. From that point in time on until now the baptism is of holy spirit. If you want to have proof of this, do as all the members of the church did in the book of acts, manifest the spirit by speaking in tongues, which is perfect prayer, magnifying God and giving praise to God well. As it is written no man can call Jesus accursed speaking by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues) and no man can say Jesus is lord except by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues)
---Robert_zantay on 2/3/11


Those that say Not so, then They'r trying to steal their way into heaven
---Lawrence on 2/3/11

I must disagree with you brother, and I will try being concise in my explanation.

Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again. Jesus told us that only the seed that matures and bears fruit will be in the kingdom of God. Paul said that calling on the name of the Lord saves us. James tells us that without works, we do not have true faith. Your verses tell us that repentance and baptism saves. See any pattern?

Real faith in Christ is the key. That is the MUST have.

It is the fruit that determines if we have real faith in Christ. Baptism is a fruit or work that is to be completed after you have faith in the Lord.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/3/11


For salvation, Yes. Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v 38 which Fulfills Matt.28 v 19, 1st. Peter 3 v 21.
Those that say Not so, then they Are here, John 10 v 1. They'r trying to steal their way into heaven as The Same as those that believe in no works salvation. Again they Are here, John 10 v 1.
---Lawrence on 2/3/11


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Leslie ... Since you have left the alcolism blog, perhaps you can answer my very reasonable question (or go back there ot answer it)

"... please explain how my friend had been sinning when she had not drunk alcohol for years, and then when unknowing, she drank some in a drink which had been tastelessly spiked.

She did not know she was drinking alcohol.

Where was her sin?"

If you are not prepared to answer that I don't see how we can accept the honesty of your assertions
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/3/11


There are more than one baptism mentioned in the New Testament (Baptism in: water, spirit, fire, body of Christ.)

The baptism that saves is the baptism into the Body of Christ. In this case the Holy Spirit does the baptising and we are baptized into (immersed into) Jesus body at which time we receive the Holy Spirit in us (drink into one Spirit).

This is clearly stated in: 1 Cor 12:12-13, "as the body is one... so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Water baptism is an object lesson of this truth as well as a public declaration of our intention to be a Christ Follower.
---Bruce5656 on 2/3/11


Baptism does NOT = salvation. Salvation is Repenting (confessing and turning from sins) and Trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord (Believing and Confessing Jesus is Lord and that He rose from the dead) - Luke 13:3, Romans 10:9-10, 1 John 1:9. Anything else is NOT salvation. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward conversion done in obedience to Jesus Christ AFTER salvation.
---Leslie on 2/3/11


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