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Do You Have Liberty In Christ

Do you believe you have Liberty In Christ? If yes, please state why. If no, please say why?

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 ---kathr4453 on 2/7/11
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....(limits) you to live in TRUTH, LOVE, SELF-CONTROL etc.
Therefore there is no total freedom anywhere.
---Adetunji on 3/25/11

Limits? Sound sad 4 something you think you're missing.
Truth? What freedom I've found in truth. Free from all men. Men can beat my body,imprison me. Kill me. My truth they can't find/steal or buy.
Love is complete freedom in that nothing conquers it, even brother offending brother for a moment. Is a moment... passed.
It does not destroy the foundation.
Self control? You in control not out. Controller has all the freedom he can handle....he's in control. Body,mind mouth. Yeah...we seek this.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk at liberty: I seek thy precepts.
---Trav on 3/28/11


The liberty the Lord Jesus Christ gives you is to be out of Satanic bondage/control. In Christ as well you have limitations Matt.11: 28-30. The yoke of Christ compels(limits) you to live in TRUTH, LOVE, SELF-CONTROL etc. Therefore there is no total freedom anywhere.
---Adetunji on 3/25/11


Yes, "If the Son therefore will make you free, you all will be free indeed."
---Eloy on 3/24/11


'Ethnos' has been shown not to be lost Israel, but contain it.
---micha9344 on 3/23/11

Indeed it did and does contain them. They were "Divorced",put away,losing their married "title".
Ezekiel 39:27
When I have brought them again from the people, gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations,
Amos 9:9For, lo, I will command, I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Eze39:25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name,
---Trav on 3/23/11


..but it is clear it is talking about 'strangers to the covenant' and 'uncircumcision'.
---micha9344 on 3/23/11

Nth House divorced...were strangers. Ask Judah now.
It's so clear you didn't provide all or any prophets. Collective pointing you are not getting is....you ignore,discard foundational scriptural witnesses to raise yourself. Which can be included....but, not at the price of sacrificing truth or a designated true love. What truth will you hear? "truth", witnessed by Prophets/Christ/Apostles? Might be a good period to do so. R u with the prophets? Or against? Or only Micha?
Easy choice for me,should be for you.
Mal 3:6 I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
---Trav on 3/23/11




Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: the LORD hearkened, and heard it, a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, that thought upon his name.
---Trav on 3/23/11


Eph 2:11-14 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us],
Some say 'us' is the twelve tribes but it is clear it is talking about 'strangers to the covenant' and 'uncircumcision'.
'Ethnos' has been shown not to be lost Israel, but contain it.
---micha9344 on 3/23/11


Eph 2:12 ...were without Christ, being aliens ...
Eph 2:13 ... sometimes were far off are made nigh by blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 ...our peace, who hath made both one, hath broken down middle wall of partition [between us],
---Samuel on 3/23/11

Adopt as you understand...GOD loves faith.
Every verse you noted is in reference to an Old Test prophecies by GOD's prophets...about Israel.
Not just Judah mind...but "also" LOST SHEEP OF THE NTH HOUSE.
Ones you don't know/talk/post about. Divorced/put away from GOD for their Adulteries. And who the New Covenant was made for Heb 8:8.
The middle Wall was between the two houses.
You've lost them. And don't care. Christ cared....I do too. Matt 15:24.
---Trav on 3/23/11


When a Gentile accepts JESUS as their saviour. They gain Abraham as their ancestor and are joined to Israel.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us],


Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace,
---Samuel on 3/23/11


Trav, ....sort of like God saw the rejection, got mad, and changed His mind.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/11

You're slipping up in your stories, getting them backwards....you'll have witnesses alright. Keep playing at...ignorant. You've been shown and seen.
Psalm 105:10
Confirmed same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
Psalm 111:9
He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.
Ezekiel 16:60
Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

Digest redeem,remember,everlasting and New.
---Trav on 3/23/11




Trav, you play with words in Scripture
...it does not in anyway say, that later the Covenant was offered to the Gentiles, after Israel rejected it.
God is my witness.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/11

I've posted scripture, witnessing. Scripture that troubles your logic/doctrine. Prophet/Christ/Apostle inspired scripture.
Ur not aware of one national group of people for your scripture application to connect. Judah does not equal "ALL" Israel. There are thirteen names composing Israel.
(10)TEN that compose the LOST SHEEP OF THE NORTHERN HOUSE. Blind by doctrinal choice/otherwise....keeping you from understanding/balancing scripture.
GOD is also my witness along with Prophets/Christ and Apostles.
---Trav on 3/23/11


Trav, you play with words in Scripture to suggest that salvation was only for the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel. While it is true Jesus commanded the Apostles to not go to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel to whom the covenant was given, it does not in anyway say, that later the Covenant was offered to the Gentiles, after Israel rejected it. You keep suggesting salvation was only meant for Israel, sort of like God saw the rejection, got mad, and changed His mind. When God is Omniscience who knows all things. In fact He knows the whole end of things. God is my witness.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/11


\\we are a part of that family. Adopted as "sons".\\
---CraigA on 2/13/11

We are children, but we are not adopted as sons yet.

Rom 8:23
---James_L on 2/13/11

If I wasn't yet an adopted son, I could not now say Abba Father. Sons, Adpopted sons are the same. Why split hairs?
---kathr4453 on 3/20/11


Craig, you said to me,

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

If you had read 1 John 2:27 you would have known that what you quoted is wrong. First of all if someone has an evil heart of unbelief, they are not saved at all. They depart from the Truth they knew, which also means they were never converted, because if they had been regenerated the anointing which we receive from God abides in us and we do not need that anyone teach us, for the anointing teaches us concerning all things.
---Mark_V. on 2/26/11


the messages & answer that you get from the 'body of christ' is
that's not biblical
that is a sin
don't question the word of god, just do it
run another mile for your brethren
deny yourself
don't lean unto to your understanding
you failed / you lacked faith
YOU did it to yourself
be contented with what you have, you are worst than an unbeliver bec. you can't provide for your family

do you think these statements will create liberty in christ?
---mike on 2/24/11


Trav, this question is about LIBERTY in Christ...a completely different subject than you are discussing here.

We know you believe in Armstrongism---kathr4453 on 2/16/11

Armstrongism? Ha. He would have liked to know what the prophets witness, unlike yourself. Although would b better to listen to him before it would a confused katrgirl.
Here's my liberty, to rebuke "certain" women with scripture who take liberty with scripture. My liberty in Christ with these comes with all Prophets witnesssing,all Apostles....not 9 out of ten like the toothpaste commercials.
No scriptures noted where urs come from?
Titus 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
---Trav on 2/18/11


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I thought this thread was concerning liberty in Christ? To answer your question, I do have liberty in Christ especially when the Spirit is moving thru a place but if the spirit is quenched, the liberty is gone.
---shira3877 on 2/16/11


Of course, James twice refers to God's law as the "Law of Liberty" and Paul reminds the Galatians they were called to liberty as "stand fast therefore in liberty WITH which Christ has MADE us free.
---larry on 2/16/11


Trav, this question is about LIBERTY in Christ...a completely different subject than you are discussing here.

We know you believe in Armstrongism....

Start your own thread!
---kathr4453 on 2/16/11


Trav ... I have no doctrinal mindset on this issue, except that I think although I am not descended genetically from Abraham, I was lost, but am now secure in the saving arms of Jesus

Am I right or wrong?

But what you have said before appeared to say that unless you are genetically descended from Abraham, you can't be lost, because you never belonged, and have no hope of being found and of belonging.

Am I mistaken in my understanding of what you believe?

I do find the idea of me, a male, being Jesus' wife (although I am a member of Jesus' wife, His Church) And sadly,

Perhaps you found it a joke to ask if I had a wife, which might affect my relationship with Jesus. Sadly, I no longer have one. She died.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/16/11


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Trav ... I note you are not prepared to answer my question.---alan8566_of_uk on 2/15/11

Answer you really want is in scripture. Not trav.
U/i whether we are or are not Israel, can find solace in GOD. He doesn't punish for going to him. Does not give us a rock for bread. What's ur problem with his having a special love/wife? Perhaps you do have a wife?
Posted following earlier,had no response.

Statements and Names on found of or too GOD's former wife Israel.
1. Redeemed...to buy back
2. Everlasting & for ever
3. Covenant
4.Chosen
5.Sheep
6.His people
7.Saved ones
8.Royal Priesthood
9.Lost Sheep
10.Inheritance
11.Married ones
12.Sanctified ones + plus another 124 title/names.
---Trav on 2/16/11


Trav, I think youre losing your mind.---CraigA on 2/15/11

The fearful/indoc'd to lazy to search drive me lilcrazy. But,I have to remember that the "Lost Sheep" reading the scriptural testament and search for "them" that will see and hear.

Scripture seems crazy to many as noted in scripture. U wouldn't be Greek by some chance would ya?
1 Cor 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Matthew 10:23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
---Trav on 2/16/11


Trav ... I note you are not prepared to answer my question.

Are all human beings on this planet descended physically from Abraham?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/15/11

I've noted more than once...you are not prepared to deal with any scriptural answer not suited to your doctrinal mindset.
The answer to your doctrinal question would not be from Abraham but, Noah.....No all men did not come from Noah. Unless you believe in Evolution like many Christians here.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
---Trav on 2/16/11


Trav, I think youre losing your mind.
---CraigA on 2/15/11


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Trav ... I'm sorry about my spelling ... I pressed the send button before I used the spellcheck. And your own spelling is not so hot anyway.

I note you are not prepared to answer my question.

Let me rephrase it:

Are all human beings on this planet descended physically from Abraham?

If not, does that mean that those like myself, who are not, excluded from salvation?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/15/11


Trav,
You are I think deliberately avoisding askswering my question.
You have sauggested that Jesus only came to "save" (see above) those who had been lost out of the tribes of Israel.
Ir is a simpe question ---alan8566_of_uk on 2/14/11

Dang are you drinking? Look at that spelling. Ha. I haven't avoided you eva.
Scripture answers with no opinion.
U want a whipping "boy".
I won't be ur "boy", eva. First of all because it is not my place to entertain what ur future will be. GOD covers that.
Second....I posted scripture you would rather avoid...why? Rather than assume a thing, prove a thing.
Romans 11:2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. ...
---Trav on 2/15/11


Trav ... You are I think deliberately avoisding askswering my question. You know very well what I mean by "saved" ... I mean salvation from our sins, purchased by Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross

You have sauggested that Jesus only came to "save" (see above) those who had been lost out of the tribes of Israel.

That would excluded, since i am not so descended. THus you seem to say that I, and most of the people on this Globe, would be.

Ir is a simpe question ... why will you not answer?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/14/11


Trav,
However, it seems that 5 of those refuse to prepare themselves properly for the wedding feast.---aka on 2/12/11

Probably...haven't searched it and wonder myself. Let me know what you find. Part of the answer is in Eze 37 perhaps.

Possibility's....are the doctrinal mess ALL churches are in today. Many of the Lost Sheep in these are in ignorance, asleep as noticed here for instance. They are comfortable. The do not care what troublesome scripture to their doctrines have to say. As long as were in the holding area....we'll get in the door attitude.
Now the door is closed....but, not forever as Revelations reveals. What is going on in the mean time with these? More searching. I've been looking at other things.
---Trav on 2/14/11


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Ho Trav . ....Or perhaps since we are not "lost" we don't need to be saved? Won't you explain?---alan8566_of_uk on 2/13/11

Saved from what? Where?
What is too explain? That GOD loved a people? That he was searching for Ten Lost Sheep Elements of this people?

Doctrinal point Alan. You believe Scripture? You follow Christ? But, disallow that which seems unworthy, Jesus,Prophets & Apostles? Doctrines cast off "his","Sheep". What is to gain by that,with GOD in your doctrine?

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 2/14/11


Its hard to have the same beliefs , JamesL, when you and I dont read the same Bible. I read KJV. You read NIV.

My Bible says in Gal 4:6 that I have the Spirit of Christ because I AM a son already.
---CraigA on 2/14/11


\\we are a part of that family. Adopted as "sons".\\
---CraigA on 2/13/11

We are children, but we are not adopted as sons yet.

Rom 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

Rom 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
---James_L on 2/13/11


Ho Trav ... you do not offend me one whit.

But you don't answer my question!

I am not of descent from Abraham, nor are chinese, or Japanese, or Nordics, .... or most of the human race.

Does that mean we don't qualify as "Lost" and therefore Christ did not die for us, and so we can't be saved.

Or perhaps since we are not "lost" we don't need to be saved?

You see, Trav, I just don't understand what you are saying. Won't you explain?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/13/11


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Craig, there is no arguing with God whatsoever. I know He is Sovereign and in control of all things. I was correcting you because the passage you had given was wrong. You gave it another meaning. That is very cleaver of you. But the Truth is the Truth, and no matter how many meanings you give them, they remain the Truth. I wrote it down for you and explained it for you. The children of God are not been stolen by the enemy. Once they believe by faith in Christ, and become His children, nothing or no one can take them out of His hands. No one means you too. They are born of the Spirit for all eternity. Never to be lost. If they sin, they will be chasten by God for all of us are partakers of chastening, and if not, they are illegitimate.
---Mark_V. on 2/13/11


All those who have faith in Jesus Christ are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise.

In other words.. all Christians are considered "Israel" as well (Gal 4). Jesus is the seed of Abraham, Isaac etc, and if we are his bride by faith we are a part of that family. Adopted as "sons".
---CraigA on 2/13/11


//True salvation can never be lost.// Agreed. after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, there is no such thing as backsliding or "chutes and ladders" in salvation.

Trav, I made a mistake when I said bridesmaids instead of virgins that were found.

However, it seems that 5 of those refuse to prepare themselves properly for the wedding feast. 1/2 is a ration that is clearly delineated by Jesus. Is there any prophets that tell us what nations "trim their wicks" and which ones do not?
---aka on 2/12/11


Trav.
You appear that only those of lineage feom Israel can be saved.
Is that what you believe?---alan8566_of_uk on 2/10/11

Lets discuss scriptue saying the following??
Matthew 18:11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---Trav on 2/11/11

What happened? Do these offend u or something?
---Trav on 2/12/11


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\\I believe on can be saved and have NO REWARDS...(be careful how you build) Will these have fruit? Depends on what you believe fruit means.\\
---kathr4453 on 2/12/11


ditto.
Good stuff
---James_L on 2/12/11


---It does not say that if you don't listen your heart will be hardened. In fact it says the opposite of what you said.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/11

Here ya go, Mark. Argue with God about it.

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day, LEST ANY OF YOU BE HARDEN THEY THROUGH THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN

For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end,

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
---CraigA on 2/12/11


?
---James_L on 2/12/11

True salvation can never be lost. Apostasy is what will happen at end time...falling away from the doctrine of the Blood of Christ...and user friendly gospels/people ( no gospels at all ) will take over. They have no TRUE convictions and try to shame those who do.

I believe on can be saved and have NO REWARDS...(be careful how you build) Will these have fruit? Depends on what you believe fruit means.

I do know we are EXERCISED to discern between good and evil, and only the mature eating strong meat will be able to do so, as times get more and more evil.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/11


\\I agree with Craig, we certaily can quench the Holy Spirit, and even fall from Grace , as the Galatians did who did start out having the anointing.

A Christian can absolutely shipwreck their faith, and be SPOILED through philisophy and vain deceipt.\\
---kathr4453 on 2/12/11

Kathr,
I'm just wondering, how do your comments jibe with your idea that we will know a Christian by his "fruit" ?

Are you saying a person can lose their "salvation" and is no longer a Christian, or are you saying we won't see any "fruit" in an apostate even though he's still "saved" ?
---James_L on 2/12/11


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I agree with Craig, we certaily can quench the Holy Spirit, and even fall from Grace , as the Galatians did who did start out having the anointing. Paul had to labor AGAIN to teach them that Christ alone was their life( to form again Christ in them)...not rules, or legalism.

When we use mens words rather than EXERCISE our spiritual walk, we loose the ability to know HOW to listen to the Holy Spirit.

A Christian can absolutely shipwreck their faith, and be SPOILED through philisophy and vain deceipt.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/11


Craig, you read 1 John 2:27 and that passage does not say what you said:

"A man who hardens himself to the Spirit, will not be enlightened any further by asking MEN what the words of scripture mean."

The passage is very clear, "But the anointing which you have received from Him, abides in you" and you do not need that anyone teach you, but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and it is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him" It say's you will abide in Him if the anointing is in you. It does not say that if you don't listen your heart will be hardened. In fact it says the opposite of what you said.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/11


CraigA YES!
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/11/11


Following every do or don't in the Bible is obviously impossible. But, they will point us in the right direction.
Understanding has to be sought for. People in the old testament were in an entirely different culture than we're used to. The new testament actually clarifies and dismisses millenia of self-exultation.
God used only a few people to record history in old testament. Now, after Christ, since the Holy Spirit is more widely dispersed, and with a wider knowledge of what God wants from us, and the nurturing and growth of the fruit of Gods' Spirit of which St. Paul speaks of, yes, that is emerging liberty in Jesus our Christ.
---danny-o on 2/11/11


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Trav.
You appear that only those of lineage feom Israel can be saved.
Is that what you believe?---alan8566_of_uk on 2/10/11

UK i cannot say what GOD will do. He is GOD.
Lets discuss scriptue saying the following??
Matthew 18:11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Philippians 2:21
For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
---Trav on 2/11/11


All Im saying, Alan, is that all believers of Jesus Christ have the same Spirit of God. He is the one who teaches us(1 John 2:27).

A man who hardens himself to the Spirit, will not be enlightened any further by asking MEN what the words of scripture mean.

All that leads to is following men who tickle our ears with interpretations that we WANT to hear.
---CraigA on 2/11/11


Yes. I believe we have Liberty In-Christ.

We have Liberty to make mistakes knowing we are still loved-God knows we are foolish.
We have Liberty to seek and wait for Gods' counsel and question any "Tradition of Man"
We have Liberty to Love our nieghbor and our enemy.
We have Liberty not to except the judgment of man but discern the spirit behind...
We have Liberty to have true repentance and be forgiven.

Good question.
---char on 2/11/11


CraigA & MarkV

What do you each mean by listening?

Craig says "Read ... and let the Holy Spirit teach you as you read"

Mark says "Listening to the Holy Spirit is a priority"

To me, those mean the same thing, although Mark seems to want to disagree with what Craig said!

Craig did not say "not to listen"

He says we should not listen to the opinions of other men, & I agree, because you can see from these blogs that men disagree, sometimes violently, with each other & they can't all be right.

And probably those who insist they are right are those who are most likely to be wrong, at least partly
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/11/11


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Craig, he has been doing what you said and has gotten no where so needs help. God provides the means to help, but a person has to listen. I believe he does have to listen, not stop listening. It is after all his life not yours. It's easy for you to say not to listen since you do not, but that is your life of which you are responsible for. Listening to the Holy Spirit is a priority to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see and a heart that perceives.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/11


Yes, Mike, your best bet is to read the word of God for yourself and dont listen to the opinions of other men. Let the Holy Spirit teach you as you read. There are many fakes here who would befriend you only to lead you into deception. Please dont let it be a reflection upon Jesus Christ. He is a truly wonderful God. But He does have an enemy who "comes as an angel of light".

Start with the gospels. They paint a perfect picture of who God is and the compassion He has on mankind in spite of our sinfulness.
---CraigA on 2/9/11


Mike, the very passage you gave in Luke 11:52 describes the people that have given you the hate that you now carry.
"Woe to you lawyers! for you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered"
In the context the Lawyers were Scribes 10:25:
They had locked up the Truth of the Scriptures and thrown away the key by imposing their faulty interpretation and human traditions on God's Word. (Matt. 23:13). This is what has happened to you. It also happened to Steven G. That is why he always speaks against the gathering of the Church.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/11


christan

luke 11:52 woe to you experts in the law bec. you load down people with burdens they can hardly carry you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them

you have taken away the key to knowledge & have hindered those who are entering.

yo
---mike on 2/9/11


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songs about freedom that i like:

"Free" by Ginny Owens

"Life Uncommom" Jewel Kirchner
---aka on 2/8/11


kathr: Good topic.
Galatians 5 does explain our Liberty in Christ as you say.

Also John8:34-38:
"Jesus answered them, Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."

2Cor3:16,17
"Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
---Haz27 on 2/8/11


mike,

Please forgive me if I sound judgmental of your feelings, but you come across with so much hate for these people you are referring to in your reply that you are taking it out on Jesus Christ. All I can say is they have caused you to stumble and that God will deal with such people for bringing the name of Christ to shame.

That's all I should say for now and may the good Lord work in your heart to forgive these people and trust Him to deal with them (and He will) and not let your anger consume you with so much hate for Christ because of these wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.
---christan on 2/9/11


christan

lets see

sin is disobedience to world of god

thou shall not bear witness against thy neighbor ... but lie about wmd

be contented with what you have...but live in a mansion & drive a luxury car

preach the gospel... in a private jet or mercedes 500 but don't judge them
---mike on 2/8/11


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To cease from all hope in the flesh and the law and self effort, is the entrance into the liberty, of the Spirit of the life of Christ in you.No longer I but Christ in me...

Galatains is a great book on our Liberty In Christ.

Galatians 5
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Or those as was in Galatia who would want to put you in or back in Bondage.
---kathr4453 on 2/8/11


mima...Mark Eaton...great answers.I agree.
---JIM on 2/8/11


Mima has it right! But many are threatened by the idea that a Christian may be "free from the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2)and may possibly abuse this freedom. They cannot wait to get everyone back under the law.

It's easier to be under the law. It feels secure.It allows people to judge others and feel "righteous" themselves.. But Paul says (Gal 2:21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 3:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---Donna66 on 2/8/11


Dear Mike, true Christianity is rooted in the love of God through Jesus Christ. What you have experienced in your past and maybe in the present are people who claim to be Christians but are as Paul teaches, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works." 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Basically these people cannot differentiate between the law and grace, and that's where they have cause you to stumble.
---christan on 2/8/11


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Dear Mike,

Let me clearly establish for you that Waco and Jonestown has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever. I do not stand in judgement of those who died there but the Word of God is the one who stands in judgement of them. The Word of God will stand in judgement of the rest of mankind too. Only those in the Covenant of Grace in Jesus Christ will not see God's wrath.

The law has only one purposed, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." That is to say, the law condemns and I do not believe that seeking to obey the law will be save. It is because you are save that you will uphold the law through grace in Christ.
---christan on 2/8/11


Sounds like youve had bad experiences with cults in the past. Youll know when you come across true Christianity. Youll feel the love of God flowing from those people. They dont focus on your sin, but on the grace of God thru Christ Jesus. His love is what changes us. Not strict adherance to written laws. Noone has ever lived a perfect life.
---CraigA on 2/8/11


christan

honesty is the best policy. and its not only me. i have seen others who obeyed & they end up being the loser.

and if you know it exist in the church then why are you accused of sin when you don,t obey them? do we have to wait for another waco or jonestown to expose how christianity manipulates & brainwash?
---mike on 2/8/11


Loved the post by mima on 2/8/11.

Quite a list of freedoms. I also think your list is incomplete. I believe we have even more freedoms than you listed.

But, we get quite a different list from Francis. To Francis, salvation only gives us forgiveness of sins. Which in itself is a lot, but no liberty, only an forceful obligation to follow the Law or else. That is not the God of all mercy and all love, that is not our Abba Father, our Heavenly Father.

Eternal life with Liberty. God is truly good.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/8/11


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Dear Mike, you sound overly bitter to those who have put the bronze yoke upon your neck. What you have described sounds more like what Christ declared in Matthew 23 about the scribes and Pharisees. It is true that their spirit is alive and well in the synagogues of satan.

However, what is true is without exception, mankind have sinned against God and fallen short of His glory. And only by His grace and mercy, it is only He who changes our stony heart to a fleshly heart that we may come to repentance to Him and trust that Jesus death at Calvary was in exchange of our sinful life which God so hates.

May the good Lord have mercy on our souls.
---christan on 2/8/11


Great topic, Kathr.

I absolutely have liberty in Christ.

Christ has set me free from the curse of the Law.
"For as many are of the works of the Law are under a curse. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them" (Gal 3:10)

Matt 5:17-48 Jesus said whoever "relaxes" the commandments will be the least in the Kingdom. Whoever reduces the Law to merely rules doesn't have liberty.

We will be judged by the Law of Liberty (James 2:12).

Only 2 commandments matter. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself (Matt 22:36-40)
---James_L on 2/8/11


Only a "self person" (Mike's words) can have a relationship that is PERSONal. The Father of creation said He wanted to be known as "I am who I am" forever (not a command, but care about His will). Only a "self" can relate to and identify with "I am who I am" and be free to do good from their heavenly spirit/attitudes instead of being compelled/ordered.

Titus 1:8 "master of himself".

It is GOD'S SPIRIT bearing witness with OUR SPIRIT that makes us children of God (Romans 8:16).

The STRICT/technical definition of "free" means to be abandoned (no longer owned), so we're told to live the law of "LIBERTY".

Not IDENTICAL relationship, but PERSONal.
---more_excellent_way on 2/8/11


If we choose to be a SON of Abba FATHER instead of SLAVE to a task MASTER, then we will have been set free from LAW so that our goodness will be done from our own spirit (as learned from God's Spirit). Then OUR SPIRIT will be holy also (and compatible with God's Spirit).

If we live the LAW OF LIBERTY (James 1:25 and 2:12), we will not be hypocrites and can be a son of "in His image man" (as before the fall...lords/rulers in the spiritual world)....

Mark 2:28
"lord EVEN of the sabbath".
---more_excellent_way on 2/8/11


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How wonderful it would be if we all realized our liberty in Christ. Our liberties in Christ, purchased by his shed blood, places a Christian at the pinnacle of life. Our liberty includes, freedom to make mistakes, freedom to be at peace, freedom to believe, freedom to communicate with God, freedom to petition the father on behalf of our fellow man, freedom to be aware of certainty concerning our salvation!!
---mima on 2/8/11


i believe that i have liberty in Christ. This means that God does not accept or deny me based on what i do i just have to put my faith in Christ. Long time before Jesus came people were judged based on the law but now that Christ came he took our all our pain and in him we find life and freedom!!
---lincolin on 2/8/11


What exactly do you mean by "liberty in Christ"?
---Cluny on 2/7/11


Yes ... I have Liberty in Christ.

Why? Because I have been set free of the penalty for sin

It does not mean that I am free of following the rules that God has laid down for us ."Love God and your neighbour as yourself, nor from the duty to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit those in prison, or who are ill.

I still sin, and need to confess and repent all the time, for often I do not even know I have done wrong

..
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/7/11


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Nope. I was brainwashed in OBEYING stupid teachings like 10% will make you successful, denying yourself will create blessings. obeying without questions & if you do you are accused of lack of faith. the messages I hear from church is 'bad news' everything is pointed to sin. i was told that it is a relationship but self person is a sin. and when you exercise YOUR FREE WILL it is a sin. that is why I miss opportunities bec. christianity has made EVERYTHING A SIN.
and those who accuse me of sin don't practice what they preach. they use the 'ye not judge me' verse to justify their sin.
---mike on 2/7/11


Liberty to what?
---paul on 2/7/11


yes, as prisoner of the Lord, i have liberty in Jesus Christ. Herein lies my freedom:

Eph 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit... one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
---aka on 2/7/11


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