ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

What Are Stumbling Blocks

The Bible teaches about "STUMBLING BLOCKS" in Romans 11:9-10, , Romans 14-13-23, 1 Corinthians 1:20-31, and 1 Corinthians Chapter Eight. What are your thoughts?

Join Our Christian Friendship and Take The False Gospels Bible Quiz
 ---Rob on 2/9/11
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



//"Hang out with whom you want. i have no problem with that." aka...This is apologetic code for I'm taking my ball and going home.//

correct.

you gotta know when to hold em' (don't give pearls to swine),

know when to fold em' (Jesus talking with Pilate),

know when to walk away (Jesus eluding the Pharisees),

and know when to run (Joseph with Potipher's wife)

i tell my boy that when he plays football with the neighborhood kids always to look out for if they truly are playing football or trying to hurt him. it's his choice to continue which ever way. So, does my Father.
---aka on 2/21/11


I don't really care about what Paul had to say about stumbling blocks. I do, however abide by what Jesus taught in regard to stumbling blocks. Matt 23:13-39.

By listening to the words of Jesus we can clearly see that those who refuse to enter into the Kingdom block those who are seeking truth from entering in. How do they do that?? By teaching lies instead of teaching from the words of Jesus Christ which have been passed onto to us through his eyewitnesses, Matthew and John. Matt 24:35.
---barb on 2/21/11


aka-

I agree with the Word Yehovah spoke out- as I see- you are also stating.

Yehovah spoken word--------will not return void.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The Beauty of God is God. We can continue to Trust His will-----will be done.
I can rejoice with you-brother.
---char on 2/21/11


cliff...//aka, I don't quite see your point.//

i understand that. there is a certain point where human understanding is up to Jesus Christ brought by the Holy Spirit.

since you are in a religion that denies the deity of christ (jesus) and the existence of the Holy Spirit (v. God's spirit), you will not understand. Only He can bring true understanding. it took me over thirty years to die to human-based theologies and philosophies.
---aka on 2/21/11


Matthew 10:23
//But when they persecute you in this city,flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel,till the Son of man be come.--Trav on 2/21/11//---Nice.---*[gone over=complete or finished]
*[Article-the]Son of Man[Christ]stumbling block for some
*Coming depended on the repentance of Yirael(Acts 3:19-26)would then have been(and will now yet be)judicial coming "the Son of Man" Acts 17:31
Mat 10(all)26Fear them not therefore:for there is nothing covered,that shall not be revealed,and hid,that shall not be known.28And fear not them which kill the body,but are not able to kill the soul:but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.--check/balance
---char on 2/21/11




"Hang out with whom you want. i have no problem with that." aka

This is apologetic code for I'm taking my ball and going home.


"Who has the problem?" aka

That should be easy enough to determine...

You stated that "the first time "God" is mentioned...a plural form is used."

I've simply explained (as did 1st_cliff) that this is classic eisegesis. Can you defend your claim or would you prefer that no one challenge your mishandling of God's word?

Trinitarians here with a knowledge Hebrew will of course not challenge you on this (an interesting thing to behold) although they know that your argument about plural 'Elohim' is misguided.
---scott on 2/21/11


Rom11:1-10
8 According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber...
---char on 2/19/11

Matthew 25
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Matthew 10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
---Trav on 2/21/11


aka, I don't quite see your point..**the will of god in the flesh became his father's will .One will**
Jesus' will was as He stated "let this cup pass"
God's will was to see it through. Jesus submitted to His Father in obedience.. the Father's will won out. 2 different wills!
He did not "choose" His Father's will , simply "submitted" as we must submit to His will!Heb.5.8 "Although he was a son , he learned obedience from what he suffered"
---1st_cliff on 2/20/11


//These are definitely 2 separate 'wills"//

cliff, there are two natures

in the end, which will did jesus choose? therefore, the will of God in the flesh became his father's will. One will.

cliff, i was like you. my wife had torn my kids away from me with the help of the church. i could not see them until i submitted. then, i left the church, submitted to the Lord. Four years later, my children are with me for the last year .5, and i am in a church that loves us.

you do it your way, i will do it His way.
---aka on 2/19/11


1 Cor1:23-27 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness,
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty]

Deut29:1-6
Is29:6-19
Acts2:37-38
Rom11:1-10
8 According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber...
---char on 2/19/11




//To conclude that this form of plurality is literal (and not the 'plural of majesty') when applied to God is problematic:// scott

anything that doesn't agree with psuedo-baptist JW doctrine is problematic. the question is ... who has the problem? hang out with whom you want. i have no problem with that.
---aka on 2/19/11


"And He said, 'Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.' From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more." (John 6:65-66) So, possibly people stumbled because of this that Jesus said.

"Christ crucified" is "to the Jews a stumbling block", Paul shares in 1 Corinthians 1:23.

For me, it works that God made man in God's image, and man is a family being . . . of father, child, and mother . . . three persons of family caring and sharing love (c: "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8 & 16), with three Love Persons of Family caring and sharing (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/19/11


Ex7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses,See,I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
God "gave" the authority to Moses represented by the 'Staff' Moses carried.Aaron-Word of Elohiym spoken-power with authority Ex4:2-4
elohiym-[plural form of elo'ah]used frequently as a proper name for Yahweh-creator of heaven and earth.'el' is one of strenght and authority."Mighty one"can be applied to God or other gods."El'-first letter in (a)eleph-represent strength-Second letter [lamed-L]pictograph is a 'staff' representing Authority.The 'power and authority' of Yahweh can be passed on to others.

Elohiym-masculine plural word-"powers'subject to the verb [bara]-'He Fattened"Gen1:1
---char on 2/19/11


I know the "trinity" is a stumbling block for some. I see no reason for stumbling. God is God. He is able to manifest Himself in any form at any time and still not be divided... whether or not I can explain "how".

Most analogies fall flat... relations within the family, an egg, ice-water-steam. They do not explain how God can act as "three" and "one" simultaneously.Trying to discern (as some doctrines do) one form now, another form then, and still another sometime else, is too complicated for me. I like aka's analogy best.
---Donna66 on 2/19/11


//a word picture from the Lord is priceless.
---aka on 2/18/11//

The Word of Yehovah is inspired--down to each letter-
without that understanding--many will miss "How" Yehovah Exist...Word and Spirit.
One--tri--unity.
*Yehovah--unspoken
*Yehovah--spoken--Word[Yeshua]
*In-Spirit and Truth--Holy Spirit

Aleph-Bet-Gimmel

Aleph to Tav

Again-Bless you brother.
---char on 2/19/11


aka,**in polytheism each god has it's own way/will**
Jesus statement to the Father "not my will but your will be done** Lk.22.42.
Mat 6.9. "Thy will be done""
These are definitely 2 separate 'wills"
Yes they are one in "unity" "My Father and I are one" Jn.chap17 describes their oneness (unity)
HS seems to be left out in this "togetherness"
---1st_cliff on 2/19/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


"God"...plural form" aka

With respect, this shows a lack of understanding of biblical Hebrew. To conclude that this form of plurality is literal (and not the 'plural of majesty') when applied to God is problematic:

It is the 'im' ending in 'Elohim' that makes the word God, 'El', a plural noun. However consider that when the bible refers to, for example, melechim (kings) plural of 'melech' ('king') it's not referring to several persons in one king but to several individual kings.

When applied literally to God you have many individual God's and not several 'persons' within the whole. Polytheism.

BTW, Moses Is referred to as Elohim at Ex 7:1...Just one Moses.
---scott on 2/19/11


"trinity"?...Actually I don't find this a "mystery"! ---1st_cliff on 2/18/11

neither do i...Godliness is a mystery. 1 Timothy 3:16. so, what is the sense in argument (in the academic sense)?

neither do i believe in the trinity. i believe in tri-unity.

the strength of one chord (jehovah) or three independent chords (gods) cannot compare to three intertwined (infinite and interdependent) chords (Father, Son, and HS).

these three alone cannot be called gods because of their One purpose. in polytheism, each god has its own way/will.

however, the three can be called One God because of their One Way/will.

thank you, char ...a word picture from the Lord is priceless.
---aka on 2/18/11


\\ "ego eimi " he was describing His name (YHVH)

Ego eimi nothing to do with YHVH! \\
---1st_cliff on 2/16/11

Did you read the contradiction before you hit the submit button? Do you want a mulligan?


Who shall I say sent me? Ego Eimi

I agree with you that He was describing His name.

the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his NAME Immanuel, which being translated mean GOD WITH US

God with us said "before Abraham was, Ego Eimi"
---dJames_L on 2/18/11


aka, I hope that you understand,if you went to college, that "argumentation" is a learning tool, and not meant to be a "harangue"!
This is my only reason for "arguing"!
Having said that, do you understand why translators do not translate Elohim Gen .1.1 as
"Gods"?
Of course Jesus spoke of the Father (He prayed to Him) He attested that he was the "Son" Both He and the Father command the 'Holy Spirit", but does this constitute a "trinity"?
Actually I don't find this a "mystery"!
---1st_cliff on 2/18/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


The 3rd letter of the ancient Hebrew aleph-bet is "gimmel" pictograph is a 'Foot' or a "carmel" meaning is walk, run, carry or gather, And looks like a man humbled-bent in worship.Numercal value is(3)representing the HOLY SPIRIT proceeding forth from the Father(aleph) and the Son(Bet).
In-Christ by the HOLY SPIRIT we have that choice to run after the teachings 1Cor2, 1Cor9:24,Heb12:1-3,Jn16:7-33
1Jn 5(All 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Tri-unity
Aleph-Bet-Gimmel
Jn 4:24 God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
---char on 2/18/11


This is just my opinion but Ive always seen the trinity as three manisfestations of 1 God in the 3 ways needed for Him to exist in all dimensions/realms simultaneously - not that He is 3 Gods, I agree with Kat on that one.

Ive also come to notice that when the word "LORD" (all caps which is Elohim in Hebrew) is used in the old testament it doesnt only refer to God but also his angels, some of which are sent in the form of men. The Bible tells us that the angels are holy as well.

That would certainly explain the use of the word "us" in Genesis 1:26 and 11:7.
---CraigA on 2/18/11


cliff again, we can only explain Godliness only in human terms with human limitations.

Godliness is a mystery and there is no dispute in that.

I have heard your argument before from others monotheists, and I have heard the arguments of trinitarians. The former does not take the whole Godly scripture into account, and the latter is trying to placate monotheists and keep in tact what Jesus Christ has revealed.

My scripture specifically talks of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit witnessed by "hidden" Godly OT scripture.

There is a deeper reason than subject-verb agreement, and i hope that is not what you hang eternal inheritance on.
---aka on 2/18/11


Craig, I'm glad you did not make a heretical statement about Christ in your last post. It was better to bring the question, "any guesses?" and give the passage you found in Gen. 18:1,2.
The study of Christology is a very critical study all believers should take. While it is a little confusing at times, at least when a person answers, he answers from Scripture knowing something about what they are talking about and not just sending words to the wind as Kathr does with no Scripture to confirm what she says. Taking sides in the matter just because a person likes another is wrong. Everything should be for the Truth and the Truth is Christ. Her statements are heretical in nature,
---Mark_V. on 2/18/11


Send a Free Hi Friend Ecard


A very confusing subject - the trinity. Maybe its something we'll only fully understand when we finally see God.

Gen 18:1,2
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day,

And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him:


The strange part is *2* of these men/angels (18:22,19:1) went towards Sodom and Gomorrah and it was said "but Abraham stood yet before the LORD" when he was in the presence of the third man/angel and spoke with Him until he "went his way" (18:33).

Any guesses?
---CraigA on 2/17/11


aka, "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth"" Gen 1.1
God (Elohim) is indeed plural but the verb created is singular making the noun subject to the verb. No translator renders it "Gods" created!
The plurality here is in Majesty not number, "We are not amused"
Catherine the great started all edicts "WE Catherine"
---1st_cliff on 2/17/11


the first time "God" is mentioned in the Bible, a plural form is used.

To Moses, "God" revealed Himself as One. In the NT, Jesus spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

We can only explain it only in human terms with human limitations.

Godliness is a mystery and there is no dispute in that.
---aka on 2/17/11


God is One-Defined by His Word down to each letter.
Aleph its the First letter of the ancient Hebrew aleph-bet and the pictorgraph is an ox head presenting "Father" strength and leader. Its numerical value is one and it is a silent letter for "Gods unspeakable Glory"
Bet is the second letter but the First Letter For the written word-Bereshiyt[In Beginning]
Bet pictorgraph is a " house" for "tabernacle" and its numerical value is two.
Jn1:14 Yeshua is Bet-El, the habitation of God Almighty.Gods "Speakable Glory"
Zech 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name ONE.
Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD
---char on 2/17/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


God is not three persons, God is ONE..teh Lord our God is ONE. One God in three manifestationsof His being.

Cults believe God is three Gods.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/11


John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

does anyone see the WHOLE sentence.

No man has ever seen God, yet, when we see His Only Begotten son, we do SEE God.
If Jesus was begotten before His incarnation, then OT could see Him then...but that didn't happen.

HE is the express image of the invisible God. He is God made flesh..God WITH US!!!
---kathr4453 on 2/16/11


James L, When God answered "ego eimi " he was describing His name (YHVH) "I am that I am" ",I will be whatsoever I will be", "I shall become whatsoever I shall become", "the becoming one!"
Before Abraham was ego eimi = more accurately in English, I was!
Ego eimi is a common expression used mega times in scripture ,"I am this or that" nothing to do with YHVH!
---1st_cliff on 2/16/11


\\sorry Cluny, but Jesus begottenness was from His incarnation. In eternity past he was the WORD - LOGOS who became flesh. \\

Wrong, kathr.
---Cluny on 2/16/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


stumbling blocks? light alcohol consumption, infant baptism, tongues (not the gift at pentacost), eating meat and other silliness.
---larry on 2/16/11


It refers to His being begotten IN ETERNITY from the Father, and therefore shares the same NATURE (homoousios) as the Father.
---Cluny on 2/15/11

sorry Cluny, but Jesus begottenness was from His incarnation. In eternity past he was the WORD - LOGOS who became flesh.

You are suggesting God had a son in eternity past? Who then was His mother?

When Eve gave birth to Cain, she said I have begotten a son.

The difference between begotten and created means BIRTHED..so Cluny you believe God the father BIRTHED Jesus before Mary?

Look at genealogies....this begot that who begot him etc.

We get a clear ides what Begot/begotten means.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/11


1st Cliff,

In Exodus 3:13-14
Moses asked "who shall I say sent me?"

God answered "Ego eimi" (Septuagint)

John 8:58
Jesus said Before Abraham was, Ego eimi

Who was at the bush with Moses?
---James_L on 2/15/11


Cluny, From your statements..**from the Father** and **SHARES the same nature** you are describing "two" individuals. You cannot deny that! Then you contradict yourself saying they
are the "same person"!
Consider, Mat.6.9 "OUR Father (His and our) Who art (is) in heaven". One on earth the other in heaven....How many do you count??? One? bzzzz.failure!
1 & 1 =2 Will the real God please stand up!
YHVH is the "Eternal God" Jesus is His Son!
---1st_cliff on 2/15/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


\\Was not Jesus "BEGOTTEN"?\\

Yes, but this does not refer to His incarnation and birth in time from the Virgin Mary.

You didn't think it did, did you?

It refers to His being begotten IN ETERNITY from the Father, and therefore shares the same NATURE (homoousios) as the Father.
---Cluny on 2/15/11


aka, Did Jesus not tell his disciples "I'm going to My God and your God"? No Jesus was not a liar , He knew Deut 6.4.
Was not Jesus "BEGOTTEN"?
"My father is GREATER than I"
No "trintarians " are on the wrong track!
YHVH is supreme God! Jesus is His Son.
Holy Spirit is "personified" but not a Person!
---1st_cliff on 2/15/11


Arius (Arianism) thought he was defending the fundamental truth that there is only one God - monotheism. A belief in the full deity of Christ, he supposed, would mean the Father and Son were two separate Gods, which contradicted the many statements of the Bible about Gods oneness.

If monotheism were true, then Jesus is a liar. Trinitarianism is man's way of explaining Jesus' words of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and maintaining monotheism.

Paul said that without controversy Godliness is a mystery.
---aka on 2/14/11


\\ What other purpose does frying humans serve other than provide entertainment for the onlookers?? \\

Where did you get the idea that they were frying?

\\... fundamentalist's
interpretation)\\

Who said fundamentalist interpretation (as you perceive it) was accurate?

\\Wasn't Samuel wearing a coat?\\

Who said it was really Samuel he saw?


Homoousios has to do with the nature of the Son. It is not dealing with the Trinity as such.

\\Arius had it right 'till satan stifled him thru Constantine! (he was getting too close to the truth!)\\

Contantine had nothing to do with Arius's death. He flushed himself down a privy inside out, if you knew your history.
---Cluny on 2/14/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


Cluny, **to hear them scream business** What other purpose does frying humans serve other than provide entertainment for the onlookers?? Unmaterial..whatever, it still causes pain (according to the fundamentalist's
interpretation)
Wasn't Samuel wearing a coat?
Are they naked??
Homoousios was/is a made up term because scripture doesn't support "trinity"
Arius had it right 'till satan stifled him thru Constantine! (he was getting too close to the truth!)
---1st_cliff on 2/14/11


\\The 3 major "stumbling blocks" are (according to today's preachers)
#1 God cooks humans in a fire forever.(for no other reason but to hear them scream)\\

Where did you get this "to hear them scream" business?

The fire of Hell is unmaterial. It is not an earthly fire.

\\#2 That people escape their bodies (fully clothed, if you can imagine)at death.\\

Where did you get the "fully clothed" tidbit?

\\#3 That God is 3 persons while at the same time being 1 person....really?\\

Wrong again. God is three PERSONS in one ESSENCE/NATURE/SUBSTANCE. Keep in mind that these words have technical theological meanings here.
---Cluny on 2/14/11


John 11:14 Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
This is what the Bible says unless of course you have one of those perversions to study.
---Elder on 2/14/11


//#1 God cooks humans in a fire forever//

distortion of a distortion.

//#2 That people escape their bodies...at death. //

Lazarus and the rich man were dead...according to you, Jesus is a liar.

//#3 That God is 3 persons while at the same time being 1 person. //

Judaizers and those who are not fully free of Judaism still need to make that fit. The scriptures talk of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and say that Godliness is a mystery. Godliness cannot be explained away by you or explained by any other man.
---aka on 2/13/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Ruben, let me explain something to you, first of all I don't believe everything the RCC teaches is wrong. There is a lot of doctrines all Christians agree with. I also believe God's elect are everywhere, waiting to hear the Truth, yet they don't know it, and when they do, they too will be saved. There is many things wrong with the RCC. First of all almost all of them don't read the Bible. They don't have the desire. They depend on the Church and not in Christ. The first sign of a fallen Church is Idolatry. Once the worship of saints entered the Church, it begin to go down. Then the justification for that worship begin. The rise of man (saints) the fall of Jesus. Popes making bulls that were not Scriptural. Many cover-ups all through history.
---Mark_V. on 2/14/11


Cluny, you are right, any attempt by anyone of his own merits to earn their way into God's kingdom is false. For we are saved by Grace through faith. Jesus said, you must be born again, of the Spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God. All self-righteous works have no value. A man cannot change his own heart.
"Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one" Job 14:4. It is just not possible no matter how many argued that its possible. All religions outside of Christianity teach works. If a person makes a commitment to Christ during an altar call, and has a contrite heart, a heart that has been change by the Spirit, he is considered a new creation. But not by his works, but by the works of God.
---Mark_V. on 2/13/11


Mark_V* Ruben, All I'm giving is the Truth for the saving of your soul,

Mark, please tell me why your interpretation of scripture is the truth over mine!

Mark_V *So I present the Truth, for I know what you are taught because I came from where you are at.

Not true, I have been where for some time now and all those who were "Catholic" at one time did not know what she taught, cause if they did they would not leave the Church that Jesus said he will bulid his church on the rock of Peter (Mt 16: 16-18)
---Ruben on 2/13/11


god is truth,it is neither him or his word that causes people to stumble,aka loose faith,its people.
---tom2 on 2/12/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


Just because one group twist the truth, do we throw out the whole verse?. Just because RCC make eating Christ flesh and drinking blood a WORK, does not mean the whole truth is thrown out. Jesus said my words are spirit and truth. SO to eat His flesh and drink His blood has a SPIRITUAL truth and understanding.

If you are Born of the Spirit you will know what the spiritual application means.

ONLY THOSE who eat my flesh and drink my blood have ETERNAL LIFE and I will raise you up in the last days. is ABSOLUTE TRUTH!! These are the ones God gave to Jesus!

Read the WHOLE of John 6, not just your favorite one verse that you believe qualify you!!

What does QUALIFY you is to eat His flesh and drink His blood!
---kathr4453 on 2/12/11


\\Roman Catholic teachings on works is found all over their doctrines.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/11\\

Mark_V, many people on these blogs believe that people can be saved by saying a "sinner's prayer."

This is a work.
---Cluny on 2/11/11


Ruben, I am not trying to convince you. All I'm giving is the Truth for the saving of your soul, if you are not saved by Grace through faith. If you are, then you have the right gospel. I do what God commands me to do. There is no arguing about the Truth. All I have to do is present it. God takes care of the rest. I'm not here to win a contest. Or for people to like me. If they are Christian, they should love me already. If not, it is their own problem. I have no control over those matters. So long as I do my part as Mark E, stated. Not seat with my own ticket and do nothing. So I present the Truth, for I know what you are taught because I came from where you are at. The gospel of works is not Scriptural. No amount of merits can save you.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/11


Roman Catholic teachings on works is found all over their doctrines.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/11

And in the bible:

Romans 2:6-7"Who will render to every man according to his deeds"

1 Tim 5:8 " But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Galatians 5:6 "faith which worketh by love."

And many more, Faith and Works together.....
---Ruben on 2/11/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


Mark_V.* Ruben, the hard teaching was the Truth of the Gospel.

Even those who are saved " You do not want to leave too, do you? Jesus asked the Twelve."v67

Mark* He has to believe trust by faith in Christ.

Agree,believe in his words as well ' For my Flesh is food indeed".

Mark* 1 John 2:19 explains those who leave. They were not of us.
You said:

Those were never call Disciples of Jesus "Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them,"v61
---Ruben on 2/11/11


Mark_V.* You do not hear the words correctly. You cannot eat Christ or drink His blood.

Let's see:

v51"This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Did he not give us his Flesh on the cross, Y or N?

v54" Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"

v56 "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink."

Notice my flesh and blood is real food and drink!

v57 "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them."

v59 "but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever"

Now who is not reading this correctly?
---Ruben on 2/11/11


Mark, I understand perfectly, brother. Please stop being condescending. And I am not offended in the least. I believe EXACTLY what scripture teaches. I dont have to speculate.
Belief in Christ first, THEN you receive the Spirit which produces works!

John 7:37-39

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying,

If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified,.)
---CraigA on 2/11/11


Eating Christ flesh is another set of works.---Mark_V. on 2/11/11

SO so wrong. Our resurrection life in Christ was NEVER based on works, not even under Law.

It also has nothing to do with the RCC teaching....

So MarkV, are you saying you don't know what it means?
---kathr4453 on 2/11/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


--They need faith and that only comes from God.-- Mark_V

Romans 10

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach,

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
---CraigA on 2/11/11


Craig, you cannot escape the teachings of Scripture. If you understood the ramifications about works for salvation you would not be offended. Mary is elevated to deity by her works. Roman Catholic teachings on works is found all over their doctrines. People are declared saints for their works. They have to volunteer to get baptized in order to be saved. They get out of purgatory by their works of penance. Priest forgive others by works of penance. Eating Christ flesh is another set of works. But you do not see anything wrong with that because you are a follower of works for salvation.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"
---Mark_V. on 2/11/11


Yes, and not question it "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? Tell me Mark ,what was the hard teaching that they could not accept?
---Ruben on 2/10/11


Great question Ruben, I too am waiting to hear markv's answer.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/11


Ruben, the hard teaching was the Truth of the Gospel. It's hard to those who are lost. They need faith and that only comes from God. A disciple is a follower of Christ, but just following does not make a person save. He has to believe trust by faith in Christ. How many have you seen leave and fall away? Many, because they were never born of the Spirit. 1 John 2:19 explains those who leave. They were not of us.
You said:
Mark, they did not hear his voice ' For my Flesh is Food indeed" I guess you are part of that sheep that does not hear his voice."
You do not hear the words correctly. You cannot eat Christ or drink His blood. No matter how hard you try. You can pretend. Jesus is in the right hand of the Father.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


How did I know Calvinist doctrine was gonna get crammed into this topic as well?
---CraigA on 2/10/11


Mark_V.* That's right Ruben, that's why I say they were not saved is because they did not believe Him.

You cannot be call a disciple of Christ and be a unbeliever, which I notice you did not answer.

Mark* Do you know why they did not believe Jesus, because only His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him.

Mark, they did not hear his voice ' For my Flesh is Food indeed" I guess you are part of that sheep that does not hear his voice.

Mark* If The Father had given them to Jesus, they would have believed by faith.


Yes, and not question it "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? Tell me Mark ,what was the hard teaching that they could not accept?
---Ruben on 2/10/11


Ruben, you argue giving the right answer when you said,

"No Mark, they walk away because they did not believe him "

That's right Ruben, that's why I say they were not saved is because they did not believe Him. Only believers in Christ are saved. Do you know why they did not believe Jesus, because only His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. If The Father had given them to Jesus, they would have believed by faith. It is God who brings them alive to Christ. Otherwise they cannot hear Jesus voice and believe in Him.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/11


Mark_V.* Ruben,* This people were not saved at all.

Mark, how can a unbeliever be call "some of his (Jesus), please explain?

Mark*" that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father"

And how is it granted to them, verse 40 tell us "For my Fathers will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life,

Mark* walked away because they had not been granted the right to be with Christ.

No Mark, they walk away because they did not believe him " On hearing it, many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? v60 Nothing here about well, so we are not granted we better leave!
---Ruben on 2/10/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


Hi, Rob . . . first, I see, there are things that are stumbling blocks because it is the fault of the person who stumbles about what is good, like the gospel. But we can be wrong in how we help people to stumble because of what we eat and drink, etc. Now, Paul seems to be saying the weak need to get strong enough so they do not stumble, though. But we should help weaker ones, by not making too big of a deal about less important things that should not be getting so much attention.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/10/11


Ruben, I think you have to reinterpret Scripture for what you said is not in Scripture,

"in matter of fact he allow some disciples to walk away from Salvation(JHN 6:66)"

This people were not saved at all. Just because people walked with Him did not make them save. The verse before v.65 tells us that,
"And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father"
Those that walked away, walked away because they had not been granted the right to be with Christ. They knew it, so they walked away.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/11


Hey, everyone on ChristiaNet:

One Stumbling Block that I think we all need to work on is UNFORGIVENESS.

It will hinder our relationships with GOD and affect everything else in our lives. To at least some degree.

Just look at all of the: Arguing, Tit-For-Tat exchanges, Rude comments, etc. on these blogs.

Sounds like many of the ChristiaNet folks need to deal with the Stumbling Block of UNFORGIVENESS while writing those! Other names for that are Bitterness, Anger, Resentment, and others.
---Augie on 2/9/11


The 3 major "stumbling blocks" are (according to today's preachers)
#1 God cooks humans in a fire forever.(for no other reason but to hear them scream)
#2 That people escape their bodies (fully clothed, if you can imagine)at death.
#3 That God is 3 persons while at the same time being 1 person....really?
---1st_cliff on 2/9/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Franchises


I would suggest that anything that keeps you from drawing near to God is a Stumbling Block.

The stumbling block need not be sin. The stumbling block could be unbelief, it could be another person, it could be sin, and it could be yourself.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/9/11


Rubin the Bible where we are told not to eat blood.
Old Testament-
Leviticus 19:26,"Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

New Testament- Acts 15:29,
"That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
---mima on 2/9/11

And yet Jesus who is the Author of scripture 'Still' said to eat his flesh and drink his blood, in matter of fact he allow some disciples to walk away from Salvation(JHN 6:66)And Mima you too have the option to say "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?v60
---Ruben on 2/9/11


Rubin in answer to your last post I offer two places in the Bible where we are told not to eat blood.
Old Testament-
Leviticus 19:26,"Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

New Testament- Acts 15:29,
"That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
---mima on 2/9/11


I do not claim that I am free of stumbling blocks myself even though I often pray about this subject. And I pray in the following manner, Lord protect me from wrong doctrine.
---mima on 2/9/11

keep praying Mima because of one of your 'Stumbling Block' is in Gospel of John chapter 6 54-56 "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my Flesh is real food and my Blood is real drink ." May the lord open your eyes as he did to the disciples on the road to Emmaus "Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread."(LK 24:35) Imagine that when Jesus said "This is my Body"
---Ruben on 2/9/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Lead Generation


If you intice someone to engage in behaviors which cause them to feel guilty of sin then you have created a stumbling block for your brother or sister. Bible says that "some are week in faith" so have more rules about eating certain foods or celebrating certain days. Those who are strong in faith consider all things clean and are actually set free from the Law. Sin nolonger has power over them.
---jody on 2/9/11


As regards "stumbling blocks" I am convinced that many many Christians have many many stumbling blocks in their lives. I do not claim that I am free of stumbling blocks myself even though I often pray about this subject. And I pray in the following manner, Lord protect me from wrong doctrine.
---mima on 2/9/11


luke 11:52 woe to you experts in the law you have taken away the key to knowledge you yourselves have not entered & have HINDERED those who were entereing

malachi 2:7 the priest are the messenger of god but turned away and caused many TO STUMBLE

christians who are quick to accuse but don't practice what they preach - stumbling

stumbling - instead of helping your fellow man you are in the way in their growth & maturity
---mike on 2/9/11


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.