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Belief In Christ Replaced Law

After reading this Scripture(Romans 10:4),"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Would it be correct to say that belief in Christ replaced the law for righteousness?

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Rob--Jesus certainly did "raise the bar"

Mat 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone..

Following the law is simple and literal. Before Jesus came that was all that was required. He added a new dimension, a new requirement,. not in the letter of the law, but the spirit.
---Donna66 on 3/5/11


Rob, Excuse me for answering the question you posed to Jerry. I've already said how I think God "raised the bar"

Why did God "raise the bar" when people couldn't make as it was? I think because many thought one could follow the law sufficiently with even the most corrupt desires and evil intentions. As if what they DID was all that counts... "sacrifice a lamb...a burnt offering of a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD."

But when Jesus required man's motivation be holy, most honest people would be forced to admit that they fell far short. It is such an awareness of sin that might cause men to cry out to Jesus for salvation.
---Donna66 on 3/5/11


Jerry 6593, CHRIST was the only person who ever walked on the face who kept the LAW.

You wrote Jesus "raised the bar".

The questions I have for you are to show me where this is found in scripture?

Also, if people could not reach the bar as it was, why in the world would Christ raise it even higher?
---Rob on 3/5/11


MarkV: "the believer in Christ does a lot of good and bad things"

The Bible disagrees:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Joh 8:11 .... go, and sin no more.

1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not, for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
---jerry6593 on 3/5/11


NO. Belief in Christ did not replace the law but makes the one who believes in Christ and follows His teaching to FULFILL the law(s) without stress.
---Adetunji on 3/4/11




It was Jesus who brought up Commandments to bear in his answering that which was asked of him, "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
In a parallel verse he says, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 7:13_14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
What is the narrow and the broad?
---Nana on 3/4/11


There's a difference in "keeping" and "fulfilling".

"for by the law is the knowledge of sin," and "the wages of sin is death". Only Christ fulfilled the law, through His death at Calvary and resurrection on behalf of His people. His people then receives "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:27,28 - in this "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31
---christan on 3/4/11


Here is the difference of someone who is saved by Grace through faith and someone lost without Christ. The lost do good and bad deeds in life. By God's standard, both good and bad deeds are sin, since the good he does, they do not glorify Him as God nor were thankful to God, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts are darkened. Rom. 1:21. For anything without faith is sin.
On the other hand, the believer in Christ does a lot of good and bad things, the bad is burned and the good he does, God gets all of the honor and glory. For the good he does is done by faith in Christ and is always thankful to God.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11


Mark E: Many believe that Jesus "lowered the bar" by abolishing the necessity of keeping His eternal Law. He did not. Indeed, Jesus "raised the bar" by requiring not only compliance to the letter of the Law, but to the spirit of the Law as well. Thus, He instructed that anger was tantamount to murder, and lust, to actual adultery. Had He truly abolished our requirement to keep the Law, He would have said "murder and adultery - no problem, I've got your back. You're no longer under this outdated Law - go sin it up." But such is not the case. Those disobedient and lawless ones who claim to be above the Law are not on Jesus' side. Quite the contrary.
---jerry6593 on 3/4/11


The rich young ruler did not love others. Also no one can keep the law. Romans 3 shows all have sinned. So the ruler was lying.

We are saved by Grace alone. But Love draws us to follow GOD and care about our fellow humans. The Commandments are about loving GOD and loving others.
---Samuel on 3/3/11




There's no way that a Christian who is justified by faith will not keep the commandments of God. For God's promise is,

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Hebrews 8:10

God must work the miracle of regeneration which is "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." Ezekiel 36:26 - and this miracle is performed on the dead man's spirit before he can start to believe in God.
---christan on 3/3/11


-Mark_Eaton We NEVER said it should stop there.
Revelation 12:17 keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

he lacked FAITH in Jesus
Some people believe in Jesus and do not keep his commandments. they will NOT inherit.
Some keep the commandments and do not believe in Jesus, they will not inherit either
---FRANCIS on 3/2/11


James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" 9 "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." 10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

For the Christian who's under grace and not the law, Paul declares, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31
---christan on 3/2/11


Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Mat 12:3-12!

So many believe you must keep the law.
Yet, you know in your heart. You clearly can't!

They even told you in Act 15:24
Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment!

You must think I want you to go to (you know!)
But, please try to understand, what is being said!
Know we are all the same!
Put no difference between us!

Look, if you tell someone.
"You must, do! What you cannot do!"
Yes, Christ said it!

But, what best describes you?
A Hypocrite!

Well, I said my peace!
---TheSeg on 3/2/11


Which of these commands does GRACE allow us to break:
---francis on 3/2/11

Ask yourself the following questions: Who do you emulate? Jesus or Satan?
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11

Both of you, please answer this question.

Luke 18, the story of the rich, young ruler. He asks Jesus, "what must I do to inherit eternal life"? Jesus says "you know the commandments". The young ruler replied, "all these I have kept from youth".

My question is, why does the story not stop there. According to you, it should. The law is fulfilled, the young ruler should be righteous. But there is more to the story. Jesus says more.

Why is that?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/2/11


Jerry, instead of responding with Scripture you come out with those questions. First of all, you say, Did Jesus say that the law would change or not?
Lets see, God said it, and Jesus Christ is God. So He said it. Second you say, Did Jesus keep the Law are was He lawless? He kept the law for all of us so that we could be save. After all He is God and perfect. Third you say, Did satan keep the law or was he lawless? you should know that answer. Then you condemn others who don't agree with you by saying,
"who do you imulate Jesus or satan" You insist on staying under the law and not "in Christ", Do you not understand that those under the law are condemned already and do the desires of their father.
---Mark_V. on 3/2/11


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question

Which of these commands does GRACE allow us to break:

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.
---francis on 3/2/11


Ask yourself the following questions:

Did Jesus say that the Law would change or not?

Did Jesus keep the Law or was He lawless?

Did Satan keep the law or was he lawless?

Who do you emulate? Jesus or Satan?
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11


Yes John, he said:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And I will add you are absolutely, right!
Not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law!
Now ask yourself why? What's holding you back, John?
Did he not fulfill the law to your satisfaction? Mat 5:17!
Well, Did he or didnt he fulfill the law?

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

John, this is the law and the prophets!
Now forgive me, John!
---TheSeg on 3/1/11


This is how we will know the teachings of the Anti-christ.
---David on 2/26/11

What are you saying to me?

You used Paul's teaching (Romans 6) to me when I used Christ's teaching in John 3 that we must be born again.

Which is it? Is Paul wrong, am I wrong, are you wrong, or is Christ wrong?

You used my favorite verse John 14:21 to make everything about obeying the Law. But what does this verse say? "it is he who loves me...". This walk of faith is about a relationship with Christ and God, not merely keeping the rules. The Pharisees kept the rules and look what it got them. Relationship is what it is all about. Our keeping of the rules comes out of our relationship to Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/1/11


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I believe that we as believers are on a bus called grace.
---micha9344 on 3/1/11

Micha9344, Grace is from the Driver who is driving The Law(Bus) to the New Heaven and New Earth.

I know this is just a simple allogory.

We are only allowed on the Bus to Salvation because of Grace. Otherwise we would have to fulfill The Law now in our current sinful flesh (i.e Drive The Bus ourselves/which we can't).

As Christ said..
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law!"
---John on 3/1/11


I would say if you could do the law than you are righteous!
But really, which of you can? Read act 15:5-11
Add Act 15:24, Rom 2:29, Gal 6:12-18
The law was never meant to make you righteous!

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:
"for this is the law and the prophets."

Well, I believe this is why he said Joh 8:42!

And I'll add this: if God is your father, then as his son you should love even me!
But, your love should not stop there, for we are all his children.
He's not saying anything easy, (Christ) I am asking you to do that which is impossible.
Love each other!

Peace!
---TheSeg on 3/1/11


John, I find your words mixed up since you speak for the Law, and what you show is the breaking of the Law with your remarks to me. You say I hate people and a begot because I did not say anything when some Christians called you names, and you mentioned (satan). If someone claiming to be a Christian called you that, doesn't that tell you who they really are? You judge me too, when you don't even know if I saw what was said to you. You have no idea, yet you called me a begot. To be true I never saw that. I have spoken for many who have been called names.
And I also believe you are wrong on the kind of bus we are in, Micha is correct, we are on the bus called Grace. Those on the other bus will keep working but never get anywhere.
---Mark_V. on 3/1/11


I believe that we as believers are on a bus called grace. Those on the law bus may not arrive at the destination they intended.
Pro 14:12, 16:25 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death
-Better make sure who is driving ...
2Co 11:14 And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
-Choose your bus wisely...
Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
---micha9344 on 3/1/11


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Well here I think is the bottom line on this subject for when Jesus speaks so does God and in Matthew 5 but this is all what we must do not to forget also that in verses 17-20 should sum it all into focus since if you believe in any of the Bible you must live by and believe and do it all or as it says out of my loving saviors lips thru God my father,by NO MEANS WILL YOU ENTER MY FATHERS KINGDOM,HEAVEN !You must then adhere to it all, none out of context, or, rebuke it all ? Yes by his grace and love for us his death burial and resurrection we are saved but rightousness with lawlessness is an abomination! God Bless you and let not the head lead the word but the heart and Holly Spirit which he send us if we are saved to interpret for us !
---Kevin on 3/1/11


MarkV you are full of HATE AND BIGOTRY.
NOTE: How its just fine for you to hear Christan remarks to me. (i.e.Calling me Satan).

I WILL SIMPLIFY THIS FURTHER..

We are on a bus called THE LAW. No one is qualified to drive the Bus except Jesus. Since HE was the only one who passed the test. BUT we ALL are in the Bus(LAW) and going to the same destination.

Once the Bus driver (Jesus) gets us to that destination(GRACE), we will then ALL be qualified as well.

WHY???

Because we too will be perfected(fulfilling The Law INDIVIDUALLY) in our Christlike bodies.


Christ was the first born of many.

The LAWS will exist forever as Christ said "EVERY STROKE OF IT."
---John on 3/1/11


Which laws should be observed?
Take the 10 Commandments for example. They should all can be observed but they have lost their punishing condemnation for those who do not keep them. This is because of the grace of Jesus Christ who came and fulfilled the law and offers us total forgiveness even for breaking the law. Before Jesus Christ came there was no total forgiveness only a temporary(one year) covering for sin.
---mima on 3/1/11


For sake of discussion and not argument, the people who suggest that Christ "replaced" the Law, which Laws should not be observed?

Some laws cannot be observed, such as when they relate to the Temple, priests, when one is not in the land, or other Laws that cannot be applied because of current civil laws.

I am curious, which Laws should be taught not to be obeyed and why? understanding that one will never become righteous by observance of the Torah. People only become righteous in Christ.
---Rod4Him on 3/1/11


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John, you want to answer godly questions and you answer them with sarcastic sinful answers,

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.", and that's what I must do.
---christan on 2/28/11
SO YOU ARE GOING TO FLEE?"


Your arguments are not godly at all. You argue for the law, and you cannot keep the law yourself. Your answer contradict what you teach. You should take your own advice,

"OTHERWISE...

IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE CONSIDERED A FOOL, THAN TO SPEAK OUT AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT!"
---Mark_V. on 3/1/11


The law is very much in effect, to those who are lost. They are under the law, and have been judged by the law. All those who are in Christ are not under the law, Christ has fulfilled the law in our place. What we could not do, Christ did for us as believers. Only those who place their faith and Trust in Him. For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
The Law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. The Law is the restraint of evil. The Law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. The Law is to reveal or enlighten the children of God as to what is pleasing to our Father.
---Mark_V. on 3/1/11


"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject, Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:9-11
---christan on 3/1/11


Some of us visit this site to learn from and share with others.
But some bloggers resort to name-calling and still claim to be of Christ ???

Please, let us allow the Spirit to guide us, think before you post, and dont personalize discussions (not arguments).

For me, I really want to learn this subject. Are we discarding the law in its entirity, or by we show our love for Christ by obeying the same laws.
Faraicis
---Faraicis on 3/1/11


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I can't believe that there is not one scholar among us who understands this scripture. The primary meaning of the Greek word (telos) for "end" in Rom 10:4 is GOAL - not destruction. Thus, Christ is the goal, end result, purpose, reason, etc. of the Law. Why would He destroy something that He wrote with His own finger, and then claim He never changes?

The Law is still intact. Jusus fulfilled the requirement of the Law (the wages of sin is death) by His sacrifice on the cross. If the Law could have been made void (God forbid!), then Jesus need not have died.
---jerry6593 on 3/1/11


Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.", and that's what I must do.
---christan on 2/28/11
SO YOU ARE GOING TO FLEE?


Hmmmm.... you've done that several times now.


Hey... here's a Prooftext for you....

"GIRD YOURSELF LIKE A MAN"!
---John on 2/28/11


Thank God that salvation is by grace and His grace alone. Thank God that He did not put a condition of "study these area yourself and learn some Greek and possibly Hebrew/Aramaic" that one will enter His Kingdom.

As for asking questions and depending on the "blind" has consequences as Christ tells us, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Alas, I am also told by James, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.", and that's what I must do.
---christan on 2/28/11


God has not saved us to be lawyers and win an argument.
He has called us to be witnesses of His majesty so that others may turn in an 'I'm guilty' verdict and believe on Him whom He has sent.
---micha9344 on 2/27/11


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Christan, stop trying to win an arguement with me. You'll lose! I think after several attempts you would realize that.

You need to study before posting. Taking single line verses from scripture (AKA: Prooftexting) is childish and meaningless.

If you want to learn, ask questions. There are many people here who can help you. Many who have extensive knowledge in Scripture, History, Culture, Language, and early church teachings.

You should study these area yourself and learn some Greek and possibly Hebrew/Aramaic.

OTHERWISE...

IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND BE CONSIDERED A FOOL, THAN TO SPEAK OUT AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT!
---John on 2/27/11


"Christan, I'm going to take it easy on you this time, because everytime I correct you, you go into hiding due to embarassment. No need!" John

My, my. such pride and self-flattery of oneself. Did you ever look at it that "go into hiding" was merely obeying Christ's instruction of "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

You're so fool (oops, i mean full) of yourself.
---christan on 2/26/11


John, your theology of God's wrath is totally senseless, let alone Godless. First of all, His wrath was demonstrated when He cursed our parents Adam and Eve. And since then, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18

What are wars, earthquakes and calamities? God showing His love? As for the Christians, His wrath already fell on Christ at Calvary. So long as the Christian are still in this world, there will be tribulations for them until the sleep. God's final wrath will culminate on the Day of the Lord.

Think you know God's will and plans? I think not from they way to speak, o righteous one.
---christan on 2/26/11


And to you:
Rom 3:22
Rom 4:5
Rom 10:10
---Mark_Eaton on 2/25/11

Mark
Peter warned us of how Paul's teachings would be taught by some men.
Do you know why he gave us this warning?
It is because Paul's teachings can be misunderstood, especially if they are used as the foundation for Salvation.
How do we know if a teacher is not teaching Paul's letters in the context in which they were Taught?
They will simply oppose the teachings of Jesus Christ.
If they oppose Christ, where do those teachings come from?
Anti- means to be Opposed to or opposite of.
This is how we will know the teachings of the Anti-christ.
---David on 2/26/11


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Fair enough, below is another scripture.
---David on 2/25/11

And to you:

Rom 3:22 "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe, for there is no distinction"

Rom 4:5 "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"

Rom 10:10 "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/25/11


Christan, I'm going to take it easy on you this time, because everytime I correct you, you go into hiding due to embarassment. No need!

The post I wrote concerns the afterlife (i.e.The resurrecton) not the pre-Christian era Bodies/Flesh you are quoting in Sauls letter.

The Law must exist in order for us/universe to exist (This concept is a little difficult for you to understanding now) so I will simple say you can look at it this way...

Christ(Our High Priest) is holding the dam of Wrath for us who believe in Him.

When we inherit our "RESURRECTED" bodies. Then the gates of wrath will be opened and poured out upon the universe. We will have ourselves then fufilled The Law. (i.e Perfection).
---John on 2/25/11


I agree the righteous are being divided by Jesus in Matt 25. But this Scripture does not stand alone and must agree with the whole body of Scripture
---Mark_Eaton on 2/25/11

Mark
Fair enough, below is another scripture.
(Romans 6:16)
Dont you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obeywhether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
---David on 2/25/11


"Because he is fulfilling the law for now (Your Grace period) UNTIL we are able to for ourselves individually." John

My goodness, you are actually saying what Paul was rebuking the Galatians. "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain." Galatians 3:3,4, "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?" Galatians 4:9

So much for being saved by grace through faith.
---christan on 2/25/11


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The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners -micha9344

Why is there no law for the righteous man?
"Because A good tree can not bear evil fruit."(Matthew 7:18)
Is There a need for Law, when those who are born of God can not sin? (1John 3:9-10)

Many claim to born of the Holy Spirit of God, and yet they continue to sin.
Will a man sin, when God lives in them, or will a man sin, when sin lives in them?
If you sin, it is because sin still lives in you,
God...does not cause man to sin.

Our Lord Jesus was born of God, he was a "Good Tree"... did he sin?
---David on 2/25/11


Deuteronomy 6:24-25
Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus commanded us to "Love our brother".
---David on 2/24/11

Let us reason together. Deut 6 is a continuation of Deut 5 which begins:

Deut 5:3 "The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today"

This covenant is referred to in Hebrews 8:13 as being obsoleted by Jesus when He declared in Luke 22 the new covenant in His blood.

I agree the righteous are being divided by Jesus in Matt 25. But this Scripture does not stand alone and must agree with the whole body of Scripture:

John 3:3 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
---Mark_Eaton on 2/25/11


Faith has always been the source of righteouness.

The law defines sin in our dealing with others and with GOD. Love goes above and beyond the law. It considers the law a startging point. Not something that is too high to reach.

Would your wife or husband only wish that you followed certain rules or that you really showed love?
---Samuel on 2/25/11


Why don't you tell me where in Scripture you see receiving righteousness from obedience?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/24/11

(Deuteronomy 6:24-25)
And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

In (Matthew 25:31-46) Jesus declared those righteous, whose actions showed they loved their brother, he did not declare righteous, those who only say they love their brother without action.

Jesus commanded us to "Love our brother".
---David on 2/24/11


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There is misconception/confusion on this issue.
THE LAW EXIST AND WILL EXIST FOREVER!
"For I did NOT come to abolish the law"

It's the creation of the world and what is keeping the unverse functional, both Spritually and Physically.

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everthing is accomplished.

So why The Christ?

Because he is fulfilling the law for now (Your Grace period) UNTIL we are able to for ourselves individually. For no one enters Heaven without fulfilling The Law. We enter judgement and by Christ recieve new bodies. It is then YOU have fulfill the law as well.
---John on 2/24/11


Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
1Ti 1:9a Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners...
---micha9344 on 2/24/11


After reading this Scripture(Romans 10:4),"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Would it be correct to say that belief in Christ replaced the law for righteousness

LOL you would be dead wrong to assume that. If you could find ONE person who was saved by keeping the law OT or NT, then you could say such. But keeping the law has never saved anyone. Besides only those who had faith that Christ would come and be killed for their sins rehearsed his death with the death of a lamb
---francis on 2/24/11


Righteosness does not come from obedience to the Law of Christ???
Best read (Matthew 25:31-46) again.
---David on 2/24/11

Why do you want to make this about YOUR actions? Are you a Pharisee? Matt 25 is about being READY for His coming. It is NOT about righteousness coming from your obedience.

Why don't you tell me where in Scripture you see receiving righteousness from obedience?

You better read Romans again.

Romans and tells us that righteousness comes from faith in God and faith in Christ. Hebrews tells us the just shall live by faith and gives us the saints of old who had faith in God.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/24/11


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This is like Paul and the Galatians all over again, except the period is 2011. Galatians 3:

1. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"

2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---christan on 2/24/11


Paul was describing that no one could keep the Law and no righteousness comes from it.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/23/11

Mark
I did not say the flesh can keep the Law.
"Only God is Good", and if a man does keep the Law, it is not by his flesh, but it is by the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in that man.

Jesus Christ was Flesh, but was it his Flesh, which defeated Satan?
Nay...Nay!!!
Satan was defeated by the Holy Spirit of God that lived in Jesus Christ!
That's why Jesus didn't declare himself to be "Good", when he spoke to the Rich Man in (Matthew 19:17)

Righteosness does not come from obedience to the Law of Christ???
Best read (Matthew 25:31-46) again.
---David on 2/24/11


Well that definately clarified your position, Leslie, and we dont disagree after all.

Once a person is saved by grace and the Spirit comes to live in them I no longer see it as a "command" or a "have to" but more as a joy and "want to".

That deep desire to be holy like our Father is can only be achieved if we follow his laws because his laws are based on love. They dont "save" us though. Thats all Im saying.

Just as Romans 12:1 says we should have a desire to present ourselves a living sacrifice based on what He has done for us in Christ.
---CraigA on 2/23/11


The law of God served only one purpose, Paul simply declares in Romans 3:20,

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Yet we get comments like: "Jesus saves, but the PROOF of our salvation is in OBEDIENCE to the law - otherwise you are NOT saved" That's not what 1 John 2:3-6 means. The keyword is "keep His commandments". Paul then reminds the Christian, "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

So, it's either you're justified by faith alone or you're justified by works.
---christan on 2/23/11


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Yes. The law is in effect, but we are not made righteous by following it.

Gal 3:21-22 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Gal 3:24-26 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
---Donna66 on 2/23/11


According to the Bible, Jesus saves, but the PROOF of our salvation is in OBEDIENCE to the law - otherwise you are NOT saved (1 John 2:3-6). Grace is NOT just living however you want.
---Leslie on 2/23/11


For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---David on 2/23/11

You are cherry picking this out of a larger context.

Start with this verse:

Rom 2:9 "There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek".

Connected to this:

Rom 3:10 "as it is written,'THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE'"

And this:

Rom 3:20 "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin"

What you have missed was Paul describing that no one could keep the Law and no righteousness comes from it.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/23/11


While the law does not justify any one before God. The law continues on and condems all who are not saved. Therefore the law is only in force for the unsaved. The saved are released from the condemnation that the law holds for the lost by the grace of Jesus Christ. For that reason he nailed the law to his cross and done away with it for the believer.
---mima on 2/23/11


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This law, this Covenant, or contract that God gave to our Lord Jesus, Where is it?
(John 14:21)
"He that has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."


The New Covenant, sent for Man to obey, if they hope to be seen as righteous in the sight of God, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
"Ten Commandments"...."My Commandments", see any similarities?
(Romans 2:13)
"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---David on 2/23/11


"and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/22/11


Amen the law never could save. We are saved by Grace alone. Paul says that He served the Law with his mind in Romans. How by loving GOD and loving others. When we love GOD we want to obey his commandments. Read all of First John.
---Samuel on 2/22/11


Would you rather your children obey you because they love you or because they are afraid of what youll do to them if they dont?
---CraigA on 2/22/11


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Yes, but the Law never gave anyone righteousness.

This verse compliments Gal 2 in that righteousness comes only from the death of Christ and not from works of the Law.

The Law continues on as it always has, but we are not justified by the Law, and never were. We can only be justified by faith in Christ Jesus and His sacrifice.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/22/11


CraigA - Read 1 Peter 1:14-16 - Be holy as I am holy is a COMMAND, NOT an option. That means we HAVE to, or else we do NOT belong to God and are NOT saved.
---Leslie on 2/22/11


Jesus is the justifier of all who believe in HIm. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit."
What was taken away was the covenant based on law. For He said "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." Therefore "He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. The law made nothing perfect [but] by one offering he has perfected forever those who are sanctified."
---Josef on 2/22/11


There are two laws spoken of in the New Testament.
The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ.
These laws became a contract, or covenant between God and man.

One covenant was given to Moses to give to the Jews, (The Ten Commandments) and other was given to Jesus Christ.

The Jews, for the most part, rejected Jesus Christ, so the whole world was given the opportunity to enter into a Covenant with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Law God gave to Moses was written into The Ten Commandments and the people were commanded to keep the Law.
Where is the Law, the contract with man, that God sent with Christ?
Why is there a need for the Law of Christ, if we do not have to keep that law?
---David on 2/22/11


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//why would Christ say if you love Me, obey My commands (which by the way are the 10 Commandments).//

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
---aka on 2/21/11


-- Mima :

Brother, Why the need to reword it ? It would be correct to share it AS IS... Christ came not to destroy or replace but to fulfill, and "is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be Justified by Faith b/c no flesh shall be Justified in God's sight by the deeds of the law. But after Faith is come, we're no longer under our schoolmaster the law, for now the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ hath made us(who are of Faith in Christ) free from the unfulfillable(at least by us) law of sin & death : condemning sin in the flesh, so the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk after the Spirit.
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/21/11


--- If Christ were the end of the law, we would not have to live holy or obey God anymore.---

This statement kinda bothered me because you used the words "have to".

Men under the law HAVE TO obey the law for righteousness.

Men under grace have been touched by the love Jesus Christ has shown them and WANT TO obey the law.

If the thought of what Jesus did for us doesnt produce love in your heart for him, its prolly a sign you havent been saved.
---CraigA on 2/21/11


The LAW was given to the Jews to show how we as people are so messed up and need a SAVIOR, which is found in CHRIST and CHRIST ALONE.

CHRIST was the only person who ever walked on the face of the earth and never sinned.

We are SAVED THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE.

Those who insist on trying to keep the LAW are those who reject THE GRACE OF GOD, Galatians 2:17-21.
---Rob on 2/21/11


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No, this it NOT true. If it were, then why do Paul and the other church Apostles say that we are to be holy as He is holy, and talks about the 10 Commandments that still should be obeyed. Also, why would Christ say if you love Me, obey My commands (which by the way are the 10 Commandments). If Christ were the end of the law, we would not have to live holy or obey God anymore. That would mean that Christ, Paul, and the other Apostles are all LIARS, and the Bible is FALSE.
---Leslie on 2/21/11


Replaced? The right word you are looking for is "propitiation" and not replaced. This is what Scripture tells us of the Law and Jesus Christ -

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20, "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin." Romans 7:14, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17

The law was and still is a cursed to mankind till today, it condemns! And short of justification by faith in Jesus Christ by God the Spirit, Hades will be the destination for the unjustified.
---christan on 2/21/11


#2 - If Christ replaced the law, then why does Christ say He came to fulfill it, NOT abolish it. Why does 1 John talk about that if you belong to God you will obey His commands. Would that not mean that if you do not obey God's commands, and say that Christ was the end of them, then you do NOT belong to God and are NOT saved, and do NOT love Jesus? If you say that Christ was the end of the law, you TWIST scripture to go in line with your own beliefs, and NOT in line with the Bible.
---Leslie on 2/21/11


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