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Neanderthals In Genesis

How do people here see the evidence for the former existence of homonids such as Neanderthal, Homo erectus (aka Java man), Homo habilis, and Cro-Magnon fitting in with Genesis 1-3?

(Please do NOT drag Piltdown man into the discussion, that has been proven to be a hoax for over 60 years.)

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 ---Cluny on 2/22/11
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I posted once, that sometimes a witness is made by having no witnesses.
Cluny, recall it may have been you that poked a little fun of the comment.
But,notice at certain times in your debates too....preachers pros avoiding an answer, is their witness. In that they don't have one for all their lofty logical, P.C. spinning.
You've witnessed again preacher by lack of. Thanks.
Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore thus saith LORD God of Israel against pastors that feed my people, Ye have scattered my flock, driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
Matthew 7:15
Beware false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
---Trav on 3/9/11


\\Cluny, the whole idea of intermediates/links between ape kind and humans is dead.\\

So it is your view that Homo habilis, erectus, and others are either non-existent or hoaxes, too?

Of course, so dismissing them means that no mental effort need be made to fit them into Genesis, doesn't it?
---Cluny on 3/9/11


Warwick ... I wonder if that was the parrot that a man bought and took it back to the pet shop the next day, complaining that it as dead.

And sure enough it and was in a dreadful state.

The shop owner said ... How did it get like that?

And the customer replied that when he got the parrot home, he thought he would like to have it a different colour.

So before he painted it, he thought he would get rid of the old colour, and (quite reasonably, bearing in mind the name of the product) applied PoliStripper.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/9/11


Cluny, the whole idea of intermediates/links between ape kind and humans is dead.

Informed evolutionists do not believe apes evolved into humans, but that both apes and humans evolved from/split off from a common ancestor-the missing link.

The whole story reminds me of the dead parrot episode with John Cleese. He complains that his newly bought parrot does nothing-it is dead, stone dead, deceased, a stiff, rip, gone to its maker, in the heavenly choir, an ex-parrot, passed on, expired etc.

The whole missing-link is also deceased, dead, passed on, rip, and no more. Except in the imagination of evolutionists and that curious breed of Christians who prefer man-made fantasies to the word of God.
---Warwick on 3/9/11


\\Cluny: I don't know how I could have said it more clearly ... THERE ARE NO HOMINID SPECIES - ONLY HOAXES!!!\\

So, you are saying that H. erectus, habilis, and others are merely hoaxes?

Is that your claim?
---Cluny on 3/8/11




Cliff, I probably said lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of lack. I think you said there was no physical evidence that writing existed in the beginning. But the flood would have destroyed any such evidence.

I replied along the lines:as God created Adam fully functioning, intelligent and reasoning there is no reason to assume he was created unable to write.

Consider the 'toledoths' which word means 'origins' or in context 'records of origins.' The second toledoth occurs at Genesis 5,1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam." Following toledoths have other peoples names attached to them. There is every reason to believe the named person wrote the record.
---Warwick on 3/8/11


Warwick: A side note on Nebraska Man:

It is telling that the strongest scientific evidence for Evolution at the famous Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925 was this very pigs tooth called Nebraska Man. It was debunked 3 years later.

So it still is today. The ONLY scientific "evidence" for Evolution is wild imagination, fraud, and talented artists to "show" us what our "ancestors" looked like.
---jerry6593 on 3/9/11


In God's word I see truth which has stood the test of time.
---Warwick on 3/7/11


GOD's truth has stood and will, as found with all scriptural witnesses.

Your truths don't for lack of.
You rarely quote a scripture, rather lofty, opinion.

Does it bother your daughter that you would give her to Cain?
Jude 1:11
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
---Trav on 3/8/11


Warwick, You once told me "just because there's no evidence , doesn't mean it doesn't exist"
There's little evidence that "Yeti" exists (save a few foot prints) but stories still persist that Yeti, Abominable snowman, Big foot etc.exists, some actually say they've seen it (discarding the Hollywood hoax) maybe it is so???
---1st_cliff on 3/8/11


In God's word I see truth which has stood the test of time.

In the book of evolution I see fraud, gullibility, supposition and constant updating when new 'proof' contradicts old 'proof.'

Evolutionists 'know' microbe-to-man-evolution is fact therefore are uncritical in analysis of new 'proof.'

An excellent example of gullibility and lack of critical thought is the socalled intermediate between ape and human kind Hesperopithicus Harold Cookii, commonly called 'Nebraska Man. He was depicted as this primitive creature on his way to becoming human. There with him was Mrs. Nebraska. But this whole story was about a tooth, nothing else, which eventually proved to be that of a pig!
---Warwick on 3/7/11




Therefore there is no need for pre-Adamic peoples and no Biblical support for it.---Warwick on 2/28/11
---Trav on 3/1/11

Warwick....when I asked if you would give your Daughter to Cain...you didn't answer.(Imagining you had been Adam).

You called me a racist some post back. Seems some scripture didn't agree with your doctrine.
It came to mind, reading your past post that you referred proudly to some of your mixed heritage....what were they again?
Jeremiah 50:11
Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls,
---Trav on 3/7/11


If you had read Howard Rand's books, you might have come to believe that all your arguments could be put to rest.
---John.usa on 3/7/11


Cluny: I still say your inability to answer straitforward, logical questions, resorting instead to circumlocution, obfuscation, and finally to name calling ("fool") show that your thought processes are as childish as the evolutionary myth you propound.
---jerry6593 on 3/5/11


Cluny I am sure you didn't really miss the point I made about Piltdown Man. That point being that evolutionists are easy to fool because they see what they want to see.

I do not see where you have answered my question. Could you point me to where you believe you have given an answer?

As I pointed out before the so called missing-links have, one by one, been shown to be either human or ape therefore do not in any way conflict with Genesis. Of course there are some who will not accept they are either ape or human. However their are driven by evolutionary faith, not science.
---Warwick on 3/3/11


Cluny: I don't know how I could have said it more clearly ... THERE ARE NO HOMINID SPECIES - ONLY HOAXES!!!

Are you really interested in true fossilized human remains? Then look up Guadeloupe Woman. She currently lies hidden in the basement of the British Museum of Natural History, incased in a slab of limestone supposedly dated at 28 million years - a complete (albeit headless) modern woman fossil that predates most all of your alleged hominids - thus rendering evolutionary conjectures laughable.
---jerry6593 on 3/3/11


\\As regards your favourite, Piltdown Man, the interesting point is that it was an obvious fraud but it fooled evolutionists for decades.\\

Did you not read where I said that Piltdown man is a hoax in my primal posting?

I've answered your question to the best of my ability. I'm sorry if you don't like the answer you got.

I will assume, from your posts, that you don't think that H. erectus and habilis are legitimate fossils. Or else, that they have nothing to do with Genesis 1.

jerry--I've noticed that in all your attack posts, you never actually answered the question I asked in my initial post, either. So I guess you, too don't think that these hominids really existed, either.
---Cluny on 3/2/11


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Cluny, you have not answered my question. All you have done is apportion to words a meaning which is not there and which is not consistent with the context.

You claimed Genesis 1 gives evidence of chaos I asked where? You then said you had not made such a claim. I proved you did, so you now resort to evasion.

As regards your favourite, Piltdown Man, the interesting point is that it was an obvious fraud but it fooled evolutionists for decades. Why? Because they 'know' such intermediate forms between apes and humans exist and therefore are easy to fool. They see just what they want to see. As do you!

As the saying goes, if I hadn't have believed it, I wouldn't have seen it!
---Warwick on 3/2/11


Cluny: Sorry, but I left your name off my last post. Here it is again.

Your inability to answer straitforward, logical questions, resorting instead to circumlocution, obfuscation, and finally to name calling ("fool") show that your thought processes are as childish as the evolutionary myth you propound.
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11


Regarding the matter of "without form and void" suggesting the idea of CHAOS:
I believe God is simply showing us the Godly example to follow regarding proper order in creation. The context that follows Gen1:2 along with many Godly examples in everyday life serve as witnesses of what God meant in Gen1:2.

WITHOUT FORM means "Unformed"
VOID means "Unfilled"

During creation, the Heavens, Waters and Land were first FORMED. Then they ALL were FILLED.
Pottery is first FORMED then FILLED. Clay isn't in chaos in it's raw state.
Taking it further, Adam was first FORMED from dirt then FILLED with the Breath of God. Adam wasn't in chaos before being formed.
Chaos came after the fall!
---Legends on 3/1/11


Therefore there is no need for pre-Adamic peoples and no Biblical support for it.---Warwick on 2/28/11

Suppostion,suppositon...emphatic shepherd opinion....Whew,save that doctrine.
You've same issue with Adamic line as you have with Israel.
Ur glad no one really looks. Genesis.... not enough to establish,yet....either way. Sure is important for you to discourage anyone looking though.
Couldn't give her away huh?
Nah you couldn't, knew you weren't a 100 percenter anyway.

Psalm 119:45
I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Isaiah 51:1
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
---Trav on 3/1/11


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Your inability to answer straitforward, logical questions, resorting instead to circumlocution, obfuscation, and finally to name calling ("fool") show that your thought processes are as childish as the evolutionary myth you propound.
---jerry6593 on 3/1/11


The pre-Adamic races idea was created because of the perceived problem regarding what Cain said after God said he would be a "wanderer on the earth," for killing Abel. He said "whoever finds me will kill me" Genesis 4:14.

Some think these people cannot be relatives but of a pre-Adamic line.

However in Genesis 4:25 Eve bears Seth, calling him Abel's replacement,when Adam was 130 years old-Genesis 5:3.

Considering Genesis 1:28 lots of increasing would have occurred in 130 years. Ample time for multiple generations of Adam's line to grow and spread.

Therefore there is no need for pre-Adamic peoples and no Biblical support for it.
---Warwick on 2/28/11


Warwick, I have already answered your question at least twice on this blog alone.
---Cluny on 2/28/11


Cluny, why does Genesis 1:2 'The earth was without form' suggest chaos to you?

After all the context talks of "the face of the deep." And verse 9 says God then made dry ground appear from under the water. The earth covered by water was certainly formless in comparison to the earth when God caused land to appear.

Also why does 'void' suggest chaos?

The earth was of course created 'void' (uninhabited) because God had yet to create the life which would fill it.

Isaiah (45:18 agrees "...he (God) did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited."

These points are but descriptions of the steps God took, from day 1 to day 6 from the beginning to the completion of his creation.
---Warwick on 2/28/11


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Cluny, you have again resorted to ducking and weaving when cornered. Your 'answer' to Jerry is a perfect example.

You wrote ". Genesis 1 describes this very thing: order coming out of chaos."

But now you say "Did you read where I said that the chaos was NOT pre-existing"

So you would have us believe that order came out of choas but chaos did not exist before order!!!!

I can now see that you originally you made a statement, (that Genesis I describes order "coming out of chaos") which you now realize cannot be supported by Scripture. Just admit it.
---Warwick on 2/28/11


Pro 26:4-5 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
---micha9344 on 2/28/11


\\Cluny: You have yet to provide any argument to refute my contention that Evolution is founded upon the twin pillars of childish conjecture and outright fraud.
---jerry6593 on 2/28/11\\

I will say no more to you on this matter, jerry, because the Bible says, "Answer not a fool according to his folly."
---Cluny on 2/28/11


....others COULD be pre-Adamic races, from which Cain got his wife (he DID say "all that see me will slay me") or the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6, as opposed to the "sons of God" (compare Luke 3:38).

This is my OPINION,
....and so I will also admit (unlike others here) that I don't KNOW how these hominids fit into Genesis. ---Cluny on 2/26/11

One of your finest "Berean" like quality's Cluny. Open to learning. The "concrete mix" heros touting doctrine claim to "KNOW",but don't.... as you wisely pointed.
BUT...the Seeker may "ask", may "find" or be shown.
I've perfect freedom in searching for truth.
---Trav on 2/28/11


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Cluny: You have yet to provide any argument to refute my contention that Evolution is founded upon the twin pillars of childish conjecture and outright fraud.
---jerry6593 on 2/28/11


\\Cluny, I have shown you that you did in fact make the comments I attributed to you. You claim "But Genesis 1 describes this very thing: order coming out of chaos."
\\

Did you read where I said that the chaos was NOT pre-existing, unlike what you imply I said?

"The earth was formless and void" sounds like chaos to me.
---Cluny on 2/28/11


Cluny, I have shown you that you did in fact make the comments I attributed to you. You claim "But Genesis 1 describes this very thing: order coming out of chaos."

Where does Genesis say this?


---Warwick on 2/27/11


\\"REAL Bible scholars use..."

How would YOU know?
---jerry6593 on 2/27/11\\

Among other reasons, I speak Greek.
---Cluny on 2/27/11


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The history of the missing-link search is one of mistakes and fraud. Ignoring frauds let us consider one famous error. The problem arises because evolutionists 'know' missing-links must exist.

Many candidates have been touted, for a while, until further evidence showed they were either of the ape kind, or human kind, not in between.

Lucy (Australopithecus afarensisis) is a perfect example as 'she' was long said to be the ancestor of all humanity. But 'she' has been discarded, now considered to be an ape, a tree-dwelling knuckle dragger.

So why would any Bible believing Christian be bothered by all of this baseless assumption,speculation, error and fraud? The fossils found fit neatly into Genesis, either as apes or humans.
---Warwick on 2/26/11


Cluny: "Oh, such as fossil remains, sometimes nearly entire skeletons, artifiacts and tools, and so on."

Got any authenticated specifics? Or are we to just accept your blind faith that they exist?

"This is my OPINION, and I reserve the right to change or reject it."

Are you a woman?

"REAL Bible scholars use..."

How would YOU know?
---jerry6593 on 2/27/11


In humans of today, a difference in DNA can be as high as .2%.
Dna studies have shown Neanderthals between .1% and .5% different than modern humans.
Given the timeframe they lived in, there is no reason to believe they weren't fully human.
Evidence also suggests that Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, and HomoSapiens interbred.
This also supports the view that these were all kindred (after their kind) and all human.
Other than the 'fall of man' and the curse, they really don't fit into Gen 1-3.
But they do seem to fit into Gen 11.
Really for all of them, it's best to look at where the spine attaches to the skull,
humans are vertical, apes are at an angle. You will see very few photos of the back of a skull.
---micha9344 on 2/26/11


I hesitate to answer my own questions I asked here, however, FWIW, H. neandertaliensis, habilis, or others COULD be pre-Adamic races, from which Cain got his wife (he DID say "all that see me will slay me") or the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6, as opposed to the "sons of God" (compare Luke 3:38).

This is my OPINION, and I reserve the right to change or reject it.

But I'm neither an anthropologist nor a paleontologist, and so I will also admit (unlike others here) that I don't KNOW how these hominids fit into Genesis.
---Cluny on 2/26/11


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\\Cluny: "jerry, are you saying that you cannot fit the evidence for hominid species into Genesis?

What evidence?
\\

Oh, such as fossil remains, sometimes nearly entire skeletons, artifiacts and tools, and so on.

\\Perhaps I should throw away my Strong's and get a Cluny's Concordance.\\

As I've said, the lexica in Strong's might be good working tools for amateurs, but they are outdated and in many cases inaccurate.

REAL Bible scholars use the Liddell and Scott and other ones.
---Cluny on 2/26/11


Cluny: "jerry, are you saying that you cannot fit the evidence for hominid species into Genesis?

What evidence?

"Are you saying there is NO scientific evidence for the existence of H. habilis and H. erectus?"

Yes! They are HOAXES, just like Nebraska Man. A tooth or two plus an ape skull fragment found scattered about on the ground is not evidence of an early man species.

"jerry, ... the Greek word for science is not GNOSIS (as in the verse you picked), but EPISTEME?"

Some Bible scholar you are! The word for "science" in 1 Ti 6:20 is indeed GNOSIS, according to Strong's.

Perhaps I should throw away my Strong's and get a Cluny's Concordance.
---jerry6593 on 2/26/11


\\Cluny: Once again you take the side of "oppositions of science, falsely so called" against the clear Word of God. But WHY? \\

jerry, is there any purpose served in pointing out to you that the Greek word for science is not GNOSIS (as in the verse you picked), but EPISTEME?

Probably not.

Like neglected concrete, all mixed up and permanently set.
---Cluny on 2/25/11


\\Cluny: Once again you take the side of "oppositions of science, falsely so called" against the clear Word of God. But WHY? \\

jerry, are you saying that you cannot fit the evidence for hominid species into Genesis?

\\What compelling scientific evidence brings you to accept man-made hoaxes to the exclusion of Bible truth?\\

Are you saying there is NO scientific evidence for the existence of H. habilis and H. erectus?

Or are you trying to muddy the waters by dragging in the Piltdown hoax, which I asked to be not discussed here?
---Cluny on 2/25/11


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Cluny on the thread 'Scientific Evidence Evolution' on 16th of February you wrote "But Genesis 1 describes this very thing: order coming out of chaos."

Before God created there was nothing, therefore no chaos.

God's says He created (Hebrew bara-from nothing) the heavens and the earth. Bara is used only of God, as He alone can create from nothing. The earth was initially formless and empty, no chaos implied. Verse 9 shows the earth was initially created covered in water and land was called to appear, from under the water. A step in creation.

It was also empty because God had yet to create vegetation and creatures.

No Big Bang, no chaos at all.
---Warwick on 2/25/11


why i mentioned Basque and Aboriginal peoples? Basque peoples respiratory systems have evolved over many generations so they can breath at altitudes we could not.Aboriginal people's metabolic rates can make radical changes minute to minute.
---kevin5443 on 2/25/11


\\I twice challenged you to provide any Scriptural evidence that chaos existed before God began creating. \\

Please tell me where I EVER said there was pre-existent chaos before God began creating. Be specific. I repeatedly said there was NOTHING--and then with the Big Bang there was SOMETHING--something chaotic that God brought into order.

Genesis 1:2--"And the earth was without form and void." That sounds like the initial chaos after the Big Bang that God made happen.

Or is this verse in your Bible?
---Cluny on 2/25/11


Cluny the point remains that you hold and promote doubt in the word of God because of what you admit is an unproven idea.

Why would any true Christian hold opinions which are directly contradicted by Scripture, by the words of Jesus Himself?

Your persistent preference for the unproven ideas of man over the word of God leads me to think you are posing as a Christian, on this site, to undermine Christian faith.
---Warwick on 2/25/11


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to God 1000 years is like one day and one day is like 100 years. evolution to a man took many days, to God...it was creation. did you know that there are extinct aninals like dinosuers? what if homo-whatevers were animmals that got extinct?
---delfa3367 on 2/25/11


Cluny on 16/02/11 you wrote "But Genesis 1 describes this very thing: order coming out of chaos."

I twice challenged you to provide any Scriptural evidence that chaos existed before God began creating.

But now you claim "Why should I give you scriptural evidence for something I never said to start with?"

Short term memory problems Cluny?

An answer to my question would be nice.
---Warwick on 2/25/11


Cluny: Once again you take the side of "oppositions of science, falsely so called" against the clear Word of God. But WHY? What compelling scientific evidence brings you to accept man-made hoaxes to the exclusion of Bible truth?

Rom 1:20-22 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
---jerry6593 on 2/25/11


Both the OT and NT clearly say The Flood was world-wide. (ERETS-wide)
The regional flood idea in unscriptural.

Why did God place birds upon the ark? A pointless exercise ---Warwick on 2/24/11

The "ERETS"wide flood is not unscriptural...just does not fit sunday school doctrines.
Pointless? GOD told them to. Cleansing the "ERETS" of the contaminated line of Noah.
Noah was perfect in his Generations. Un-adulterated with ??. Remaining so after the flood.
You cannot put a few hundred thousand separate species,plants,trees,grasses,weeds,animals,insects,birds on one boat. Except in a milk boat.
Psalm 119:45
I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Proverbs 18:15...knowledge...
---Trav on 2/25/11


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How can you like an untruth?
Where are your witnesses?
6:17 "destroy all flesh from under heaven...every thing", 6:19 "of every living thing of all flesh", ---micha9344 on 2/24/11

Hating untruth... is why I do not believe the global flood doctrinal story.
Noah happened, the eret flood happened.
Just not like your educated looking back mind presumes. Sheep should..seek this. Erets, the Hebrew word. The whole appx 350,000sq mile "erets" land or country was flooded.
All men of the "erets" land or country under the heavens over the "erets" land or country.
A few hundred years ago intelligence of the times taught the earth was flat and turtles held it up.
---Trav on 2/25/11


\\Cluny, my research shows that recent DNa testing (that which I referred to) conclusively shows Neandertals were human. \\

And my research says otherwise.

\\BTW I still await an answer to my question, to you, regarding any Scriptural evidence that chaos existed before God began creating.\\

Why should I give you scriptural evidence for something I never said to start with?

Anyway, Sola Scriptura is your rule, not mine.
---Cluny on 2/25/11


Chinese and Egypt predate and post date Noahs Flood.-Trav on 2/24/11
How can you like an untruth?
Where are your witnesses?
Gen 6:5 "wickedness of man"-This didn't apply to them?
Gen 6:7 "destroy man whom I have created"- God did not create them?
Gen 6:11 "filled", 6:12 "all flesh", 6:13 "all flesh...filled", 6:17 "destroy all flesh from under heaven...every thing", 6:19 "of every living thing of all flesh", 7:4 "every living substance", 7:19 "all the high hills under the whole heaven", 7:21 'all flesh, every creeeping thing, every man"
-They were scattered from Babel like the rest.
---micha9344 on 2/24/11


\\Aboriginal peoples of the world and explain how they can survive and flourish in enviroments the rest of us would be dead in?
---kevin5443 on 2/24/11

It is possible they were pre-Adamic. Chinese and Egypt predate and post date Noahs Flood. \\

The Australian aboriginese and Basque peoples are Homo sapiens sapiens. They are NOT pre-Adamic.
---Cluny on 2/24/11


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Kevin, we know some peoples (such as Berbers) survive in very hot inhospitable deserts and others (e.g. Eskimo's) survive in very inhospitable cold deserts. Why do they choose to live in such inhospitable places? Maybe because no one wanted to fight them for such places-safety.

They adapted their physical equipment and lifestyle to handle the specific conditions. However I think it doubtfull either group would survive if they traded places 'over-night.'

What is your point?
---Warwick on 2/24/11


Cluny, my research shows that recent DNa testing (that which I referred to) conclusively shows Neandertals were human.

But let us say the tests are not conclusive: why would any Christian even be interested in reconsidering the absolute truth of Genesis 1-3, because of such inconclusive (some say this others say that) speculation?

BTW I still await an answer to my question, to you, regarding any Scriptural evidence that chaos existed before God began creating.
---Warwick on 2/24/11


Scripture gives no suggestion there were any preexisting races of people. In fact our Creator says our ancestors were made "at the beginning of creation." He should know.

Both the OT and NT clearly say The Flood was world-wide. The regional flood idea in unscriptural.

The regional flood idea makes no sense as the people could have migrated, to safety.

If it was a regional flood why did God have Noah build an ark at all? What a waste of time. Noah and his family could easily have migrated to a safe place, leaving those condemned to death behind.

Why did God place birds upon the ark? A pointless exercise as they could migrate, more easily and swiflly that any other of God's creatures.
---Warwick on 2/24/11


In my previous flood comments I called it "the Flood.' I did so because Scripture uses the Hebrew 'Mabbul' which is not used to describe any other flood. This is because it was a once-only world-destroying flood, called a cataclysm in the NT.

We also have to remember that post flood God said "And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done" Genesis 8:21

Note 'all living creatures', not the creatures of a region, no matter how large. But there have been countless regional floods since, some massive. Did God lie?
---Warwick on 2/24/11


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kevin--We could survive as easily as the aboriginees or Basques or Eskimos or any primitive people, if we were raised in their culture, learning their skills and ways of doing things. They are every bit as human as we are and every bit as intelligent. They have learned to live with their own environment.

I have no opinion on Neanderthals. None of them around anymore that I know of.
---Donna66 on 2/24/11


Aboriginal peoples of the world and explain how they can survive and flourish in enviroments the rest of us would be dead in?
---kevin5443 on 2/24/11

It is possible they were pre-Adamic. Chinese and Egypt predate and post date Noahs Flood.
Now some do not like that here.
But, these same (some) avoid large parts of scripture that doesn't uphold their other scripturally unsupported doctrines.
Bible precepts and Hebrew wording (Erets) let a sincerely asking, searcher see that there was a very large flood ...killing Noahs line. He was perfect in his Generations. They weren't would be the other side of the phrase.
The book says...generations of Adam...and Generations of Noah.
---Trav on 2/24/11


take a look and the human,living, Basque and Aboriginal peoples of the world and explain how they can survive and flourish in enviroments the rest of us would be dead in?
---kevin5443 on 2/24/11


\\And the result of DNa testing proves Neandertals are human.\\

Again, these DNA tests are inconclusive.

Some say that Neandertals are Homo sapiens neadertaliensis, a sub-species. (Modern man is Homo sapiens sapiens.)

Others say that they are simply Homo neadertaliensis, a separate species.

Eloy, denying the physical evidence of Homo habilis and Homo erectus won't make it go away.
---Cluny on 2/24/11


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No such creations exist in reality nor in history nor in truth, but only in the foolish imaginations of the dead. Get back to the Bible people, and back to the proven truth.
---Eloy on 2/23/11


neanderth...neandertals are all around and still alive.
---aka on 2/24/11


Cluny what I am saying is that Genesis says Adam and Eve were created, as humans, and from no preexisting creature.

And the result of DNa testing proves Neandertals are human. Therefore no Christian should be in any way concerned about what some people believe. The history of the evolutionary story shows a changing 'rogues gallery' of bits of bone touted as man's ancestor only to be relpaced by new bits of bone when the old character was found to be fake or misinterpretation of the scant evidence.

One of the funniest was Hesperopithecus haroldcookii, comonly known as Nebraska man. 'He' turned out to be the tooth of an extinct Peccary-Prosthennops! The peccary was not impressed.
---Warwick on 2/24/11


NEANDERTHALER IS NOTHING else then an old man with rheumatism. KENT HOVIND
---andy3996 on 2/24/11


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Cluny: "the fact that pre-Homo sapiens hominids apparently existed."

"Appearances" can be deceiving. A few teeth and a skull fragment do not a human make. Many experts have shown that habilis was just a large-brained ape, as was Java Man. Cro Mangon was truly human.

All of your pre-human peoples are HOAXES.
---jerry6593 on 2/24/11


"...the fact that pre-Homo sapiens hominids apparently existed."-Cluny on 2/23/11
Maybe this is the key.
Did they exist or does it just appear that way?
'Fact' and 'apparently' are hard words to fit in one sentence refering to the same thing.
Anyhow Java man was a small skullcap and a human legbone found 50 ft apart. Human skulls were also found in the same area, but they were not reported for 30 years.
Neandertal is classified as a type of Homo Sapien(Modern Man).
ScienceDaily: Europes Ancestors: Cro-Magnon 28,000 Years Old Had DNA Like Modern Humans July 2008
Homo Habilis has a very sketchy and incomplete inventory of fragments.(KNM 1805,1813, OH7,24)
---micha9344 on 2/23/11


\\Why should Christians worry about Neandertals being a contradiction of Scripture when the scientific evidence show them to be human, and others cannot decide what they are? \\

In other words, you admit the jury is still out of this issue.

I will be honest--I don't know.

\\It looks like some people search for contradictions between what we see and Scripture. Why?
\\

I don't know why people do what they do.

I AM asking here for how people reconcile the opening chapters of Genesis with the fact that pre-Homo sapiens hominids apparently existed.

I'm open to any reasonable answer.

And you are the only one who seems to be attempting one, Warwick.
---Cluny on 2/23/11


Cluny it is not much point in discussing other missing-links until you accept the obvious conclusion that Neandertals have been scientifically proven to be human. You can research the details yourself. I could give you links but the moderators will not allow it. That is a weakness of this site.

I think you make an excellent point saying "Some say that. Some disagree." Why should Christians worry about Neandertals being a contradiction of Scripture when the scientific evidence show them to be human, and others cannot decide what they are? It looks like some people search for contradictions between what we see and Scripture. Why?

The missing-link idea is alive and well.
---Warwick on 2/23/11


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John wonders why it matters anyway. It doesn't if your view of Scripture is that it is something entirely spiritual, divorced from reality. But if Scripture is not historical reality then we are still lost in our sins.

When I read Scripture through from cover to cover (I am up to 1 Kings 3 today) I see that God takes His word seriously, as historical reality. In fact Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded to the book of Genesis alone 200 times! And always as historical reality.

Of course if you are not prepared to take Scripture as fact, by faith, then your future is not with God in heaven. Your choice.
---Warwick on 2/23/11


\\There is no record of fabricated neanders nor homo-javas, nor hablises, nor cromagans in the scripture nor in history. \\

Only their fossils and artifacts.
---Cluny on 2/23/11


\\nor cromagans in the scripture nor in history.\\

I forgot to mention that a pre-literate people could hardly be expected to leave written records.

But this is something that unsaved dissing sinuous clay that has no light can be expected to grasp.

Though there is evidence of the stone tools that Homo habilis grasped.
---Cluny on 2/23/11


Christians do not attempt to fit worldly falsehood into the holy scriptures, but instead Christians profess the truth recorded in scriptures to be the highest proven truth. There is no record of fabricated neanders nor homo-javas, nor hablises, nor cromagans in the scripture nor in history. Whenever clay tries to exert their own ideas and sciences above God and contradict the already proven truth, like foolishly professing that man evolved from apes and guppies and protozoan sludge in the water, they indeed manifest themselves to be fools.
---Eloy on 2/23/11


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\\So after all, for this reason and others, they are now considered humans, therefore fitting perfectly into Genesis 1-3.
---Warwick on 2/23/11\\

Some say that. Some disagree.

Some say that Neandertals are a sub-species of Homo sapiens, and some say they are their own.

But how do Homo habilis and H. erectus fit in? You've said nothing about them.

BTW--the so called "missing link" idea was rejected ages ago.
---Cluny on 2/23/11


"Cursed is the man who trusts in man," we have in Jeremiah 17:5. So, I would be careful about who you depend on for what is claimed to be scientific information. Jesus says that Satan "is a liar and the father of it," in John 8:44. And Satan's people can lie in order to get what they want.

"I said in my haste,
'All men are liars.'" (Psalm 116:11)

There was a reason "why" this writer said all men are liars, though it was in haste. Also, we need to not be hasty to assume people we don't even know are honest with reliable interpretation of their information.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/23/11


What difference does in make?
---John.usa on 2/22/11


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