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Made Made Law Bibilcal

Is man made law acceptable to God?

Join Our Christian Friendship and Take The False Traditions Bible Quiz
 ---lisa on 2/26/11
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francis **Re the website on the Sabbath-

[Everyone, it seems, lives at a breakneck pace, constantly rushing here and there to get everything done. Technological advances that once promised more leisure time now seem only to push us further behind, making it ever more difficult to catch up.]

I can fully agree with the premise believers in Christ should set aside a day to collectively worship God and cease from labor if at all possible.

While physical rest is important, our spiritual rest is in Christ since we need not strive in our own efforts to merit the free gift of our salvation.

Hebrews 4:3 believers in Christ enter into that rest typified by the rest of God at Creation.
---leonia on 3/28/11


---leonia on 3/28/11
Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to CONTINUE IN THE GRACE OF GOD

In this congregation worshining on sabbath were non believeing jews as well as believing jews and believing converts. To the believing jews and converts worshing this sabbath paul said CONTINUE IN THE GRACE.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made,

Acts 16:18 And this did she many days ( refering to the girl which was possed, showing that they continued to meet by that river many sabbath days.
---francis on 3/28/11


Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,

The only BIBLICAL reference to THE LORD'S DAY is the sabbath.
Isaiah 58:13 .. my holy day, .. the sabbath
Mark 2:28the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 5:14 the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

John wrote more than 30 years after the death of Jesus that he was in the spirit on THE SABBATH I.E the Lord's day. Which shows that historically the true church always keeped the sabbath

The seventh day is the SABBATH OF MY GOD, I do not knows whose sabbath day sunday is
Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God

I do not know what YOUR God did to make sunday holy and nor have I read it.
---francis on 3/28/11


Samuel **Do you believe any commandment not repeated in the NT is done away with?

Again if any law was of any importance, you would either find it in the NT or at least taught in the early church. But the Sabbath commandment was simply a shadow of that rest of God that believers enter into. Hebrews 4 is plain on that issue.

**How about the moral laws of the OT. Are they done away with?

No, since moral law reflects relationship between people and if we disobey moral law, then clearly we violate our commanded duty to love our neighbor.

Howbeit, the Sabbath commandment being a SIGN of the Old Covenat given ONLY to Israel, is not a moral law since it has nothing to do with love of neighbor.
---leonia on 3/28/11


francis -There NEVER was an issue of sabbath in any church, all churches kept the sabbath, and there NEVER was an issue of eating clean or unclean animals in any NT church.

Please provide your historical source for your viewpoint?

I beg you cannot as nothing in the Gentile church writings of 1st 3 centuries supported Sabbath observance. In FACT, all references to Sabbath observance are negative.

Saturday was a work day in nearly all parts of the Romans Empire - ONLY the Jews observed the Sabbath, it would have been impractical for the church to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

NOT all epistles were written to correct problems within the church. Romans as well as some of the personal letters are examples.
---leonia on 3/28/11




There is a link right below the section that says " reply to this blog" called The True Sabbath
Why so many keep Sunday? Nowhere found in the Bible! Prove it today.

PLEASE READ THIS POST/ SITE
I would like to see what you think and get your feed back
---francis on 3/28/11


(Francis - Where in the NT have you seen anything about Sunday as the lord's day or church assembling on Sunday rather that Sabbath?

TRUE,that the NT does not support the keeping of any day as holy including Sunday or Saturday. But you do find the church gathering on Sunday in Acts 20:7 & 1 Cor. 16:2.

The Lord's day in the early church was Sunday according to the Didache, Clement of Alexandria (194 ad), Ignatius (108 ad),and others.

AND if you were to view the Didache - a document of the first century used for instruction of new converts you would find they met and broke bread on the 1st day of the week.

Sorry but the preponderance of evidence from the Bible and early history is against your viewpoints.
---leonia on 3/28/11


francis **ALl teaching in the NT came strait from OT, there was NO NT in the early church all they had was OT,

All they had was the OT? They had also the Apostles upon whom the foundation of the church was built (Eph. 2:20).


Not all teachings were from the OT.

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
---leonia on 3/28/11


Frances - if any doctrine is importance you would see something of it in the writings of the Epistles.
---leonia on 3/28/11
The question tells me that you do not understand the purpose of the NT epistles.

When issues came up in the churches, epistles were written to correct these issues.

There NEVER was an issue of sabbath in any church, all churches kept the sabbath, and there NEVER was an issue of eating clean or unclean animals in any NT church

And the church in Berea search the OT to see if these things were so.

ALl teaching in the NT came strait from OT, there was NO NT in the early church all they had was OT,
---francis on 3/28/11


There is a link right below the section that says " reply to this blog" called The True Sabbath
Why so many keep Sunday? Nowhere found in the Bible! Prove it today.

PLEASE READ THIS POST/ SITE
I would like to see what you think and get your feed back
---francis on 3/28/11




Where in the NT have you seen anything about sunday as the lord's day or church assembling on sunday rather that sabbath?

You have ill things to say about those who keep the sabbath day, which is IN THE NT by example and command, but there is nothing about sunday in the entire Bible and yet you are proud of this man made tradition.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9 Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
---francis on 3/28/11


---leonia on 3/27/11
By command and EXAMPLE:
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be..neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Acts 15:21.. being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 13:42 Gentiles besought that these words be preached the next sabbath.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole cityto hear the word of God.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
Hebrews 4:4 God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
---francis on 3/28/11


Frances - if any doctrine is importance you would see something of it in the writings of the Epistles.

If the Sabbath were a doctrine of any importance, it would certainly be commanded in the Epistles as well as taught in the early church but it is not.

The only viable conclusion is that the observance of the Sabbath was not required of His church.

And that is why the Sabbath was no longer observed by the majority of the church by the end of the first century.

Also it would have been impractical to impose unique Jewish laws onto the Gentile church as it would have hindered the spread of the Gospel.

Why do you refuse to see that?
---leonia on 3/28/11


But Where Where Where is the command to observe the OT Sabbath. Thar ain't any! leonia

Dear Leonia

You seem to forget that All scripture is for doctrine. 2tim. Do you see the example set by JESUS? Do you read that the seventh day is called the Sabbath in the New Testament? The Second commnadment nor the fourth are repeated in the NT.

Do you believe any commandment not repeated in the NT is done away with?

How about the moral laws of the OT. Are they done away with?
---Samuel on 3/28/11


READ YOUR NT:

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:
6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another,
Galatians 5:21 murders..that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:3 covetousness, let it not be once named among you,
1 Corinthians 6:9 neither idolaters, nor adulterers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

But Where Where Where is the command to observe the OT Sabbath. Thar ain't any!

What you do have is Romans 14:5-6 that one may esteem one day over others or none at all..

Why do you fight against the word of God? Does Satan really have that much influence on you that you strive to promote dissension among in His church?
---leonia on 3/27/11


So when God commanded the sabbath, it always has to remain a command since He does not change?
---leonia on 3/27/11

Yes, because:
1: The sabbath was given BEFORE SIN, as a reminder that God created. Nothing can change the fact that God is the creator, not even the death of Jesus
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

2: The bible reminds us that in the new earth we will all come before God every Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:22 For as.. the new earth, which I will make..,it shall come to pass, that..from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 3/27/11


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My questions are: Do you think christians should live a lifestyle of commiting the very acts that placed Jesus on the cross?

Do you understand that Jesus died for SINS, and that SIN:1 John 3:4 is the transgression of the law?

Do you not know that God hates SIN. If God determined that SIN ( whether it was breaking the sabbath, murder, stealing, or eating unclean foods) was bad enough that Jesus died for it, do you think NOW under grace he would accept it?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Do you know what you are saved from?
---Francis on 3/27/11


The True Sabbath
Why so many keep Sunday? Nowhere found in the Bible! Prove it today.

PLEASE READ THIS POST/ SITE
it is on CN on this very blog
---francis on 3/27/11


Leonia, don't be rude.

Are you saying that when we are saved we can then disobey the 10 Commandments?
---Warwick on 3/28/11


Francis, I know there is many SDA's who don't judge others when they observe the Sabbath, but people like you, are the one's that give the SDA's a bad name. Legalism does promote works in order to enter heaven. And so they judge others by one Old Testament law, and when they break one they have broken them all, so they say as you did to Micha,
"The question is, are you saved"
Yet you don't divulge your own sins, you must be another one of those who are sinless, and every sin you make is never called a sin.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/11


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leonia: You seem intent on finding justification for breaking God's Law in the New Testament. Did Jesus state that HIS law was now null and void? For what reason? Did He not state that one jot or tittle should not pass from the Law while heaven and earth remain? Did He not uphold the Old Testament and ALL of it's precepts, even quoting from it often? Where in scripture did He state that only things repeated in the NT were binding? It didn't even exist at that time. Do you think that He is more pleased with disobedience than with obedience? You should check carefully what HE said about those who teach lawlessness!
---jerry6593 on 3/28/11


Frances - Obvious you have not read the NT since neither the Sabbath or the dietary laws are commanded in in the NT.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

True and it is clear from the context which you chose to ignore that those who believe enter into the rest of God (4:3). Those that observed the weekly Sabbath did NOT.

Acts 13:44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.


The Apostles always looked for opportunity to preach the gospel. If you were familiar with the Acts of the Apostles you would notice that. No one is saved by observing the 10 commandments as salvation is in Christ not the law. How dull is your mind?
---leonia on 3/27/11


--leonia on 3/27/11
READ YOUR NT PRAYERFULLY

Most of the NT was written to solve issued that arose in the early church, The early churches NEVER had any issues with keeping the sabbath:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. COMMAND TO GENTILE CONVERTS


Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Ever wonder why they just did not meet NEXT DAY?
After all in that very same congregation were christians.
---francis on 3/27/11


frances =Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

So when God commanded the sabbath, it always has to remain a command since He does not change?

Any idiot would realize that God also commanded physical circumcision but that changed did it not?

The fact is that the Sabbath is NOT even mentioned as a command in the New Testament nor was it taught in the early church.

So why are you so blind to what both the Bible & early church history teaches us?

Stuck with your false prophetess and cannot pull loose?

Do not deceive othersw by false and strange doctrines!
---leonia on 3/27/11


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--leonia on 3/27/11

READ YOUR NT:

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: ( thou shal not steal)
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another,
Galatians 5:21 murders..that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:3 covetousness, let it not be once named among you,
1 Corinthians 6:9 neither idolaters, nor adulterers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these, blasphemy,
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
the ten commandments.
---francis on 3/27/11


Wrong conclusion are still wrong conclusions no matter how much you shout or how many times you say it...
francis, you have been indoctrinated and you will not be able to see until the blinders have been lifted...
And, again we have been through this before, you must reconcile all verses, not just pick and choose which to obey and which to ignore...
context, context, context...
---micha9344 on 3/26/11


Francis, as usual the same judgment up:
"Gods people ALWAYS gather on the sabbath. The question is are you one of God's people?"
You do not say "Saturday" you just say
"on the Sabbath" and no one has claim they don't gather on the Sabbath, only that they don't gather on Saturday, and then you say, " The question is are you one of God's people?"
You question his salvation after all that? That is why I believe all SDA's belong to a cult. Legalism exalts law above grace. The legalists of Jesus day were the Pharisees, and Jesus reserved His strongest criticism for them.
The fundamental distortion of legalism is the belief that one can earn one's way into the kingdom of heaven.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/11


The OT sabbath like physical circumcision and the Levitical dietary laws vanished when the Old Covenant became obsolete. Hebrews 8:13, Romans 14

The fact is you do not find breaking the Sabbath listed as a sin anywhere in the New Testament nor do you find restrictions on foods.

Anyone that is knowledgeable of the decree given at the Jerusalem Council Acts 15 should be able to see that laws unique to Judaism were not imposed on the church.

It would have been totally impractical to do so and the Gospel would never have gotten out of Judea.

Those that advocate the Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws want only to create divisions among Christians.
---leonia on 3/27/11


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Michael you have to be able to seperate doctrine from context.

Context always changes, for example: I live is USA the bible was written in the Middle east. Two entirely different context, yet i am still able to apply all the biblical doctrine writen in a midle eastern context to my life here in USA

Context will always change, but doctrine never changes, that is why the bible says that we teach DOCTRINE ( TRUTH) and not context.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
---Francis on 3/27/11


Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And who were the Pharisees but those who deligently kept the Sabbath, the dietary laws, and other laws of Moses, thinking that in doing so, they would be saved by the law? Are the Adventists and other legalists of today really any different?

Christians in having Christ as their Savior as the ones thro not perfect in obedience to law, will have eternal life because of the price Christ paid for sinners on the Cross. Salvation is by grace alone.

Adventists reject what Christ did for sinners on the Cross thinking that they can merit their own salvation.
---leonia on 3/27/11


Let me show you SABBATH in a variety of CONTEXT and see the DOCTRINE stays the same:
Genesis 2:2-3 CONTEXT: Perfect place no SIN and yet God instituted the sabbath
Exodus 16:23 CONTEXT: TIME OF SIN N EARTHT In the wilderness BEFORE the TEN COMMANDMENTS
2 Kings 11:5 CONTEXT: In the promise land time of sin

Matthew 12:1 CONTEXTL During time of Jesus on earth time of SIN

Acts 13:44 CONTEXT: ater death fo Jesus NT time of SIN

Isaiah 66:23 CONTEXT New earth NO MORE SIN

It does not matter what time period you choose,or what CONTEXT you choose, before sin, during sin, and when sin is done away with, Gods people ALWAYS gather on the sabbath. The question is areyou one of God's people?
---francis on 3/26/11


Nice scripture francis, wrong conclusions, we have been through this before, we will not see...
Line and precept does not mean you can pull verses out of context to fit your doctrine...
---micha9344 on 3/26/11


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LINE UPON LINE PRCEPT UPON PRECEPT:
Daniel 7:23-25 matthew 5:17-19, Tells about CHANGE IN Gods' laws. Doctrine: God laws will NOT be changed

Revelation 1:10 compare Isaiah 58:13 Identifies the lord's day as the sabbath

Meaning: 70 years afterthe death of christ the believers stioll kept the Lord's day / Sabbath

Isaiah 66:22-24 New earth with BOTH christ and Sabbath proving that Christis not the sabbath and sabbath is not shadow of christ

The other texts i posted on 3/25/11 simply says that although we are saved by grace and not under the law, we must still obey the Law/ ten commandments
---francis on 3/26/11


Wow, francis, so many verses taken out of context..
Do you anything new to add except these verses that have already been shown to you in their context?
---micha9344 on 3/25/11


Daniel on 3/24/11

READ Daniel 7:23-25 and compare with matthew 5:17-19,

READ :Matthew 24:20, Acts
15:21,Acts 13:42-44

READ:Revelation 1:10 compare Isaiah 58:13

READ:Isaiah 66:22 -24

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

read James 2:10-11 James could have used ANY of the ten commandments here
---francis on 3/25/11


Rob, long ago when I was a heathen an Adventist doctor gave me Ellen White's book 'Desire of Ages.' It and the doctor, were instrumental in my conversion to Christianity.

He did not push me to join the SDA and I never did.

I have associated with this man over the years, staying in his home on occasions) and have found him, and his family to be Bible-based Christians.

I have also preached in about 40 SDA churches and have met very few people who believed obeying the Sabbath was necessary for salvation.

My major complaint about the SDA church is that belief in evolution is creeping in as it is being pushed in some of their colleges. But that heresy is a common fault of churches as these pages testify.
---Warwick on 3/25/11


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francis, I believe you take the Sabbath just like as if you were under the Law. Making Saturday a legal day. Believers in Christ are not under the Law. The Old Testament people were not in Christ so needed to follow the Law. In Christ the law is in our hearts. We keep the Sabbath but not under the Law.
---Daniel on 3/24/11


Rob: You are woefully misinformed.
---jerry6593 on 3/23/11


micha: I was responding to your statement:

"Also, whatever my church's stance on this issue are have no effect on the clear teaching of the Bible. They should be the same."

I am sorry that you found my response offensive. Did you note how offensive Rob's remarks to me are? This is what I deal with every day on this website.
---jerry6593 on 3/23/11


Jerry, why don't you find a TRUE BIBLE CHURCH and leave the one who follows the teaching of Ellen G. White who many times was proven to be a FALSE PROPHET?
---Rob on 3/22/11


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Jerry, maybe I'm reading too much into things...
'I don't understand your objection to finding a Bible-based church.'-jerry6593 on 3/20/11
This, to me, says that I object to going to a Bible-based church and implies that I do not currently go to one. Do I misunderstand it's content? Should I not be offended at such remarks?
I believe all Christians should be instructed with meat from a Bible-based group of elders, usually found in a church. I also believe that the church is there to edify each other in truth and love. This can only be done by knowing God and His Word.
What is your view on the verses I have quoted toward divorce and do they line up with your churches views?
---micha9344 on 3/21/11


The Apostle Peter gives us this instruction when it comes to the laws of man:
1Pe2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme,
1Pe2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
1Pe2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
---trey on 3/21/11


Micha, brother, you are right concerning Jerry, for a guy who claims to follow the Ten Commandments...
---Daniel on 3/21/11

AM i to believe that you do not follow the ten commandments?
---francis on 3/21/11


Micha, brother, you are right concerning Jerry, for a guy who claims to follow the Ten Commandments and insist that others do Saturday Sabbath are they are breaking the law, he sure doesn't keep to the letter of the Law. His remarks like "Orthoducks" and "Cloony" and many others to the point he doesn't see his own sin.
---Daniel on 3/21/11


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micha: You seem to be easily offended. I don't recall denigrating your church or you for that matter. I simply was surprised that you didn't know your own church's teachings. Do you not agree with me that, in general, all churches should follow the Bible?

If you would but quote back to me my offensive statements, I could apologize for them.
---jerry6593 on 3/21/11


Jerry, You have jumped from concluding that my church is not being Biblically sound to me objecting to change churches based on that conclusion.
First of all, in what area is my church being contrary to the Word?
Secondly, Why would I change if my church is not being contrary?
Your conclusions are unfounded, you seem to be reading into sentences something that is not there.
As for divorce, I have shown you what scriptures say about divorce, yet your church, as you say, only accepts Moses' view, yet rejects Jesus' and Paul's views. Why is that? The one you do accept was only there because of unforgiveness. Is this what your church promotes?
I don't seem to understand either.
---micha9344 on 3/20/11


micha: "You're gettng circular on me Jerry." I'm tempted to say "just roll with it", but that would be flippant. Actually, I don't understand your objection to finding a Bible-based church.
---jerry6593 on 3/20/11


You're gettng circular on me Jerry.
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
1Co 7:10-11 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
'If your church teaches something contrary to the Bible, you should find a new church.'-jerry6593 on 3/16/11
Beam in eye?
---micha9344 on 3/16/11


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micha: "Also, whatever my church's stance on this issue are have no effect on the clear teaching of the Bible. They should be the same."

If your church teaches something contrary to the Bible, you should find a new church.
---jerry6593 on 3/16/11


1Co 7:10-11 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.
-This doesn't seem to have any exceptions to it, no allowances for unforgiveness or hardness of the heart.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
-So says Paul by the Spirit, but not the Lord directly. Should this not be honoered as scripture as well?
Also, whatever my church's stance on this issue are have no effect on the clear teaching of the Bible. They should be the same.
---micha9344 on 3/13/11


No, micha. The Bible only allows divorce for the adultery or death of the spouse. The unbelief (perhaps of the spouse) is the problem that brought on the desire for divorce in the first place, but is not a sufficient reason for divorce. I'm surprised that you don't know your own church's teaching on this. Why not ask your pastor and then report back to us?
---jerry6593 on 3/13/11


I currently go to a Baptist church. I grew up going to a Methodist and have been to several denominations throughout my life based on where I lived (neighbor).
I do not know the official stance of my church.
There are probably divorced people at my church as well as other types of prior backgrounds.
Should divorce be acceptable especially since the only biblical reason for divorce was because of stubbornness aka unforgiveness?
Do you also accept the leaving of an unbelieving spouse as acceptable for a believer to be free?
Are we not taking our liberties as an occasion of the flesh?
Is the vow 'until death do us part' just made in vain?
Should we just say what we really mean, 'until death or adultery or unbelief do us part?'
---micha9344 on 3/12/11


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micha9344: Most denominations permit divorce in cases of adultery. What denomination are you that yours does not?
---jerry6593 on 3/12/11


Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
I guess the question is, who has the hardness of heart that they must put away their spouse?
Why does SDA permit such hardness of heart?
Do they not vow "until death do us part?"
70X7 or hardness of heart..I guess it's a choice that must be made for God's glory.
---micha9344 on 3/12/11


Cloony: "And what Biblical reasons are there, Samuel?
---Cluny on 3/10/11"

If you were a biblical scholar, you would know that there are but two situations in which remarriage is permitted - the death of the spouse and the adultery of the spouse. You should look to the Bible instead of your Orthoducks traditions for such answers. Sola Scriptura!
---jerry6593 on 3/12/11


\\In the SDA church when a person is divorced for biblical reasons they can remarry.\\

And what Biblical reasons are there, Samuel?
---Cluny on 3/10/11


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Is man made law acceptable to God?
Some are.
Laws that save, and protect life. Example:s laws that say emergency rooms must relieve all patients of pain.
Speeding laws, gun laws that save life, and the like
---francis on 3/10/11


In the SDA church when a person is divorced for biblical reasons they can remarry.

Man made laws that do not contridict the laws of GOD are acceptabile. We are to render to Ceasar what is due him.
---Samuel on 3/10/11


\\When a law of the state conflicts with a Law of God, we are not required to obey it.
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11
---jerry6593 on 3/10/11\\

Jerry, does the SDA permit second and third marriages of divorced persons?

If so, then it's going against the law of Christ.
---Cluny on 3/10/11


RichardC: If you would scroll down, you would see that I wrote:

When a law of the state conflicts with a Law of God, we are not required to obey it.
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11
---jerry6593 on 3/10/11


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Strongaxe - I mostly agree with you. What a good point!

Jesus did not discourage his followers from paying taxes to Caesar, though some of his laws were markedly unbiblical! We are not at liberty to pick and choose which laws to follow. If we decide, for conscience sake, to disobey some law, we'd better be ready to take the penalty and not be whiners.

Laws are MEANT to apply to everyone...those who approve them and those who don't. (tho politics and money may unfairly give some a "pass"...but that's another topic)
I disagree about the Branch Davidians. They were compliant with local laws and NEVER violent until attacked by the Feds.
---Donna66 on 3/8/11


JERRY 6593 - You have to do what a governing authorities says unless there telling you to break a law of God. That's the exception. If you knew these Jews people were going to be murdered. hiding them I would think would be Ok.
---RICHARDC on 3/7/11


RichardC: Do you think that Christians were wrong to disobey Hitler's laws by hiding Jews?
---jerry6593 on 3/7/11


ROMANS 13:1 Let every soul be subject to governing authorities,For there is no authority except from GOD,and the authorities that exist are appointed by GOD.
ROMANS 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resist the ordinance of GOD, and those who resist bring judgement on themselves.

1 PETER 2:13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the LORD sake, whether to the King as supreme,
1 PETER 2:14 Or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for praise of those of those who do good.
---RICHARDC on 3/6/11


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MATTHEW 15:8 And in vain they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commmandments of men.
---RICHARD_C on 3/5/11


Axey: There is a Commandment against idolatry but not against paying taxes. In the Waco case, it was the corrupt Clinton administration that used the US Military for a local law enforcement matter in violation of the law (Posse Comitatus Act of 1878).

Any law that commands the breaking of one of the Ten Commandments (e.g. genocide, Sabbath breaking) MUST be disobeyed.
---jerry6593 on 3/5/11


jerry6593:

While that attitude is fine in theory (and even commendable at times - early Christians preferred death over offering incense to Caesar), it can be abused.

Some people use it as an excuse to avoid something they don't like. For example, refusing to pay taxes because the government spends taxes on abortion, or other unjust causes. Yet Jesus said "render unto Caesar", even though Caesar funded idolatry, slavery, and wars of conquest.

Also, groups like the Branch Davidians end up getting killed becuase they disobey to the point of violence.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/11


In free nations, God allows men to make their own laws. Peoples' ideas about which laws God might or might not approve of, varies...sometimes greatly.
But the purpose of laws is to maintain ORDER. We do not have the luxury of simply disobeying any law we don't believe to be just or biblical. That would lead to CHAOS, not order. I believe this is the truth behind Rom 13:1.

In a democracy, we have a choice of trying to CHANGE laws we consider ungodly. Otherwise, If we disobey the law, we must be ready to accept the penalty for doing so.
---Donna66 on 3/4/11


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God's law is divine. Man's law is kingdom law
---tonne on 3/3/11


When a law of the state conflicts with a Law of God, we are not required to obey it.
---jerry6593 on 3/2/11


It says, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." (Romans 13:1) Then it goes on to say, "For he is God's minister to you for good," in Romans 13:4, speaking, I understand, of a secular authority in ruling power.

So, our secular people in authority are not only "acceptable", but God's provision for us. And so, I can see, their rules would also be part of His provision for our good.

But how we deal with rules can make them seem to be bad.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/27/11


\\Other laws, such as: Abortion, Wartime Policies, Anti-Terrorism Rights, Prisoner Rules, etc. are ones that I have some trouble with. And I'm sure that GOD has trouble with them too.\\

What do you mean by "anti-terrorism rights" or "prisoner rules"?

Are you saying that God approves of mistreating prisoners?

Please elaborate.
---Cluny on 2/26/11


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Other laws, such as: Abortion, Wartime Policies, Anti-Terrorism Rights, Prisoner Rules, etc. are ones that I have some trouble with. And I'm sure that GOD has trouble with them too.
---Sag on 2/26/11

God has trouble with Prisoner Rules?? and what Anti Terrorism rights are you talking about?
---NurseRobert on 2/26/11


Man-made laws are acceptable to GOD as long as --

These Laws Do NOT Contradict The Bible

Some laws, such as: Traffic, Tax, Currency, Zoning, Fishing, Preservation, Mineral Rights, Public Behavior, etc. Laws are OK with GOD. Even necessary for all the people of today to live civilly and safely.

Other laws, such as: Abortion, Wartime Policies, Anti-Terrorism Rights, Prisoner Rules, etc. are ones that I have some trouble with. And I'm sure that GOD has trouble with them too.

I believe that GOD is patiently waiting for people realize the "Difference". Abortion is a great example of that "Difference".
---Sag on 2/26/11


I'm not too sure what you mean by this.

Are you saying that God wouldn't mind if you drove down the road in a reckless manner, running stop lights and barely missing pedestrians?

Or that He wouldn't care if you cheated on your income tax?
---Cluny on 2/26/11


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