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Church Postion On Salvation

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins. Why and what does the Bible say?

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 ---mima on 3/1/11
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Mark_V.: "I can never think like you for I believe in the gathering of the saints,... But your believes against any kind of gathering for Christians goes against Scripture."

I, too, believe in fellowship/the gathering of saints, but why do you continue to say that I do not believe in the gathering of christians when I keep on posting that I do? If I don't, I go against scripture. Do an online KJV bible search for "gather." Let me help you a bit:

Matthew 18:20
Luke 6:44
Luke 13:34
Acts 20:8
1 Corinthians 5:4
2 Thessalonians 2:1

Each verse has the word "gather."
---Steveng on 3/17/11


Some Catholics have truly learnt from Mary (John 2:5) and they are following the Lord Jesus' teachings today. Some are yet to do so and keep themselves in the broad-way. Any Catholic that truly want to learn should do what Mary said in John 2:5, and prayerfully quit any Catholic asssembly that is not truly following Jesus.
---Adetunji on 3/17/11


Steven G, I can never be in union with your way of thinking. I know some are but not I. My doctrines all come from Scripture, not from me or anyone else, unless what they are teaching comes from Scripture. I can never think like you for I believe in the gathering of the saints, the children of God. And they gather in many churches around the world. Of course I know many are not children of God and still go. But your believes against any kind of gathering for Christians goes against Scripture. And I stand for the Church of Christ. In spirit we are united by the Spirit but not in our motives, desires are do we have the same mind. And that is a good thing as far as I know.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/11


On one hand you have the church of Christ who accepts anyone who has repented of their sins, has been baptised, and who will DO the ultimate commandment spoken by Jesus. On the other hand you have denominational churches who accepts "anyone" who will become a lifetime member, who will attend services every week, and become hearers of the word (this is the great delusion spoken in prophesy). Which church do you belong to?
---Steveng on 3/15/11


Steveng -- Everyone is aware of your opinion of "denominational churches". The unity Christians are to have is a unity of SPIRIT...that transcends doctrine.
Eph 4:3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
---Donna66 on 3/14/11




Donna66: "steveng-- ...He studies the Bible. You study the Bible. You both sometimes come to rather different conclusions. SO?"

So?! Where is the unity that christians are to believe? I go strictly from the bible while Mark V., and most christians, being a denominational christian, is blinded by what his denomination teaches. Denominational churches are like a cult unto themselves each having their own traditions, rituals, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. The catholics have their catechism , the mormons have their Book of Mormon, etc, but never in unity.
---Steveng on 3/14/11


I said you would get support and have found three already and expecting one more who hasn't shown himself.
People in the past, today, and in the future who are saved or saved by the Grace of God through faith. Under the Covenant of the Law, no one is saved. For no one can keep the whole law. Those saved are those that God chose to save. They are the elect of God, no one else for if there was others whom God did not know, then God is not Almighty. All others are under the Law and are considered lost. Salvation all through history is by Grace through faith. In the Old Testament on the coming Christ, today, on the Christ that has already come.
---Mark_V. on 3/14/11


It wasnt 2 months ago you were arguing with Kathr###s that people in the old testament were under grace (trying to support election to salvation for those men)... now you say they are under the law again.

---CraigA on 3/9/11

I know craig, it's enough to make a preacher cuss!

People who flip flop all the time, not staying consistant, are teh author of confusion, not only to others but they are confused themselves.

Craig, save yourself some grief, and know many are not solidly GROUNDED. When all we have are commentaries, and not the Holy Spirit, it will always be that way.
---kathr4453 on 3/13/11


steveng-- What does Markv need help with? He studies the Bible. You study the Bible. You both sometimes come to rather different conclusions. SO?
---Donna66 on 3/13/11


Mark_V. and alan8566_of_uk, I asked Mark V. to search the scritures for truth, but he refuses to search the bible to see if what I say is the truth. Mark V. has a one track mind and strongly believes that I am against the true church of Christ and against the gathering of christians.

Alan, when have I ever wrote that I was against the true church of Christ and the gathering of christians? He twists my post like satan twists scripture and you are siding with him? Be careful about who you side with.
---Steveng on 3/13/11




Is there anyone on this blog to help Mark V understand?
---Steveng on 3/12/11

Why do fight against GOD?
If a person can't see there must be a reason. I know, I know all had a same experience with the v.
He presumes to be a teacher.
Sure makes good opportunity to see ourselves though...our limits of patience etc.
Makes opportunity for posting scripture precepts with witnesses.
Proverbs 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.
Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject,
Proverbs 18:1
Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.
---Trav on 3/13/11


Steveng ... "So you, Mark V, are saying that you don't use the bible"

There is nothing in what Mark says that even remotely suggests that he does not use the Bible
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/13/11


Steven, your asking for help? Do you want others to sin from their hearts to support you? I told you I did not need the internet to find words, I had the Bible and the Hebrew and Greek translations for words in Scripture. You look foolish making things up. I did not accuse you of using the internet. I said you do what I do, but you do it different. You told people not to read books, and you use the internet like a book. My only grip with you is the persecution of the Church of Christ. That still stands. I don't have one bit of hate for you. In fact I love you, but don't like that you are against the Church and people gathering in Churches by speaking against them.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/11


Mark_V.: "Your suggestion to go on line is not necessary for me..."

So you, Mark V, are saying that you don't use the bible. Nor do you do your research using the bible only. That's a pity. Why is that?

I point people only to the bible not the internet (in general), concordances, novels, dictionaries, commentaries, books written by people having their own opinions, or other christian reference books - only the bible. I use the bible as its own reference. I trust only the words of God the Father and Jesus. (do an online KJV bible search for "Colossians 2:8-10" to understand where I stand especially in today's world)
---Steveng on 3/12/11


Mark_V., What don't you understand about me pointing people to an online KJV bible to do research? For three years you have twisted my posts concerning the use of the online bible (among other things). For three years you have accused me of wrongly using the computer to do biblical research using only the KJV bible. For three years you having been spreading lies about me using my posts against me. Why are you so against me having people search the scriptures for the truth using an online KJV bible? Are you affraid of people knowing the truth?

There is only one other reason - your hatred against me. But let me tell you something, it's not against me, it's against Jesus.

Is there anyone on this blog to help Mark V understand?
---Steveng on 3/12/11


Steven G, you should stop all your foolishness. All you display is what is in your own heart. And out of the mouth comes many bad things that are stored in the heart. Do an online on that.
Your suggestion to go on line is not necessary for me since I have all I need before me. Scripture and all the interpretations in Hebrew and Greek for words found in Scripture. I hope that completes my answering you.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/11


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Mark_V.: "Craig, I'm sorry you feel as you do, maybe you are going through what you told me on another blog you sometimes goes through. You said, ...Maybe that's what is happening."

Why do you continue to twist people's past post?

Mark_V.: "What I see sometimes on others is, when Scripture is given, people don't like to hear it, because it convicts them."

Is this why when I suggest to do keyword searches in an online KJV bible, you don't do it because it will convict you?
---Steveng on 3/10/11


I love scripture because I love God. What I hate is when evil men twist the word of God to exalt themselves above the rest of humanity. Every man that has done so in the past has been a murderer and a liar. If you choose to follow men like that and their teachings into the pit of hell that is your choice.

Its obvious from your remarks that you think any god who gives his creation a free will is weak. That being the case you will never respect the God of the scriptures and therefore will never praise him for who He is. He is only worthy of your praise if He requires absolutely nothing FROM you. Does that really sound like worship?
---CraigA on 3/10/11


Craig, I'm sorry you feel as you do, maybe you are going through what you told me on another blog you sometimes goes through. You said,

"I know that when I had unrepented sin in my life, it seemed as though God had abandoned me. The Spirit was quenched and wasn't testifying to my spirit that I was a son of God anymore."

Maybe that's what is happening. I do not know your struggles. What I see sometimes on others is, when Scripture is given, people don't like to hear it, because it convicts them. I have been with people and when I mention the Word of God, they run. I know you are a good guy and I sure don't want to hurt your feelings either. I will stop responding to you. Thanks for your answers, peace be with you.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11


Mark, you flip flop so much youve just lost all credability with me.

It wasnt 2 months ago you were arguing with Kathr###s that people in the old testament were under grace (trying to support election to salvation for those men)... now you say they are under the law again.

Ive had enough of your condescending attitude as well. These are my last words to you: "If you had read" what GOD said 7 verses later you would know the children of Israel stopped worshipping HIM. They forgot what God had done for them and lost faith that he could get them where they were going. Same as they did in the book of Numbers. They lost faith.
---CraigA on 3/9/11


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Craig, people in the Old Testament were under the law. They were saved from bondage of Pharaoh, but they were never saved and lost salvation. No one can be saved under the law. God had not given them eyes to see and ears to hear, or a heart to perceive yet. Read Deut. 29:1-6. "Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day."
The day will come when God does that to those who will be save. To this day it's not happen. If you had read the verses I gave you, you would know the Truth and it would set you free. "Then they said, "this is your god. O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt"
Who brought them out of Egypt? The Lord God Almighty.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/11


Mark, they lost faith in the god of Moses who brought them out of Israel and made their own gods.

They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it,, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy godS, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

. They were not worshipping the one true God.

"IMPATIENCE makes the first sacred cow"

Its odd we are discussing this because it was this very Sunday morning that our message was on this exact topic. I dont believe in coincidence. Do you? Maybe the LORD delivered this message for you.
---CraigA on 3/7/11


When God commanded the cherubim to be made, did he expect His faithful to worship them? When God commanded the bronze serpent to be made, did He expect them to worship that? The use of statues and icons to grow deeper in love with God and worship Him is no different.
---Philomena on 3/7/11


Mark V, you will not like what I'm about to say nor will you perform my suggestion: do an online KJV bible search for "image" and for "picture." Most verses contain the word graven, but there are a few that just says "any" image - even pitures.

Also, Mark V, the calf surely wasn't a representative of God as you said. The israelites created a god(s) similar in form to the gods known to them in Egypt. It was a time of uncertainty and they wanted to create something they were familiar with. That's human nature.
---Steveng on 3/7/11


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Craig, They were not worshiping animals.
"When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us" Ex. 32:1. So Aaron did and then they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt" v.4.
They knew that God had brought them out of Egypt. He was present to them in a cloud and at night with a pillar of fire. So they knew God but could not see Him face to face. So God got angry because of the idols made in the shape of a calf to represent God. They were not trying to create a new god, but rather, to represent in an image the God who had set them free.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/11


Mark There you go again ... misrepresenting what I have said.

I have NEVER NEVER NEVER supported idol worship
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/7/11


Many Professors who study relgion say that man creates gods in man's image. Example the Pagan gods.

When you make a statue and worship it. You are not truly worshipping the invisible GOD.

I will not a proclaimation about the salvation of anyone. That is the perogative of GOD alone. But to worship images is like taking the name of GOD in vain. They are equally wrong.
---Samuel on 3/7/11


Its like youre not even listening, Mark.

We're not supporting idol worship, we're only arguing against your definition of it. But just like Eloy, you think when someone speaks against your opinions they are speaking against God. You think too highly of yourself. Youre not the only one who supplies scripture (no matter what you claim).

Ive been where you are and believe me the fall off that pedestal hurts.
---CraigA on 3/7/11


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Everything that you mentioned which the RCC does and teaches is 100% biblical and correct
---francis on 3/7/11


Mark Mark Mark... they were worshipping images of ANIMALS!! That is how they were worshipping the CREATURE instead of the Creator. They were taking the glory that GOD deserves and placing it onto images of things that God created.

Is Christ The Redeemer in Brazil an "idol" against the 2nd commandment? Every time I see that statue my mind immediately goes to Jesus Christ and his dominion over this earth. His hands stretched out in love. It is a BEAUTIFUL reminder of the extent of Gods love for the world. I dont worship the stupid stone the statue is made out of. Youre being ridiculous and judgemental but I guess that nothing new.
---CraigA on 3/6/11


Criag, you and Alan are very wrong in supporting Idol worship of any kind. God takes this actions very serious. And it is foolish for either of you to back-up any church, no matter which one it is concerning idol worship. The making of images is wrong, the worship of them is wrong. You can argue with me all you want, but you are rebelling against God not me. The RCC condones it and justifies their position. You are not ignorant of this facts, you can read the Bible just a good as I can, so you are without excuse. This is why your theology concerning salvation is so warp. Because you know the Truth, and with so many words, your reject the Truth. Both of you have dethroned God, and speak for man from the first time I answered both of you.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/11


MarkV ... None of the those motives that you gave in yours of 3/5 are from scripture.

Scripture cannot tell you what motive a person has, who makes statues.

Scripture cannot tell you whether the peson who has a statue for remembrance also worships it.

It is you who is ascribing the motives and saying it is idolatry.

It is you who say the statue maker is trying to bring God under his control ... that is why it was a rather silly comment to make.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/6/11


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Ill take that as a "no", Mark.

Just as I expected. And there go again assuming that everyone ELSE hasnt studied.
---CraigA on 3/6/11


Craig, from the beginning you have supported the creature so Idol worship is no surprise.
The very essence of Idolatry distorts the character of God. Paul declared to the Romans idolatry consists in exchanging the glory of God for a lie, elevating the creature and denigrating the Creator.

"Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and four footed beast and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves who exchange the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever Amen"
---Mark_V. on 3/6/11


Excellent post, Alan
---CraigA on 3/5/11


(2 Timothy 2:19) Nevertheless, Gods solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: The Lord knows those who are his, and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

What is wickedness?
Is it not sin?
What is sin?
Is it not the transgression of the Law?
(1John 3:4)
"Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
---David on 3/6/11


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Craig, your answers carry no meaning at all to me. Many things said to you are ridiculous statements anyway, what else is new? If you had read the history of Israel you would not be saying what you said. As I said before, in order to answer a question, you need to study the topic before answering. I have no grip with the RCC other then they not only permit idols, they worship them. Maybe not all members, but the majority of them. I answer each topic, God is oppose to the making of idols and so am I.
---Mark_V. on 3/6/11


ROMANS 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Baptized in water - Eucharist - Believe - and other Sarcrament - are all works a person does, and they can not get anyone saved. And putting your Belief in a Church before the Word of GOD is Big trouble,
---RICHARDC on 3/6/11


Leslie, is it your contention that the NT dropped down out of heaven already written?
---Cluny on 3/5/11


---All idolatry tries to minimize the gulf between the Creator and His creatures in order to bring Him under our control---Mark_V

That was one of the most ridiculous statements that Ive ever seen here. Its obvious your disgust for Catholics is warping your thinking.

Do you have any scripture where men made an image of anything Heavenly (capital H) and it angered God? Im not talking about birds.
---CraigA on 3/5/11


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MarkV .. That's a lot of motives that you ascribe to those whom you allege practice idolatry !!

If you have a photo of your daughter, is it to bring her under your control, make her dependant on you, blame her for living elsewhere, or to demote her from being a person to a piece of paper?Surely not!!

Why then should those who have statues to remind them of God have such motives as you conjure up?

The last one is probably the only one which has any valiidity "minimize the gulf between the Creator and His creatures" And there is nothing evil in that, is there, just an attempt, maybe misguided, to make God seem closer and more understandable

But do the RCs practice idolatry? Do they worship the statues?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/5/11


"The Catholic church did NOT put together the Bible, the Holy Spirit of God did. Leslie"

Because there were 250 plus documents claiming Apostolic authority at the time the New Testament was defined, those men given the authority in the Church chose which letter/books fit with what the Apostles taught. That means that 250 plus documents were evaluated to see if they were Holy Spirit inspired AND in line with Apostolic teaching, but only some of those documents were chosen. Those choices were made by men, inspired by the Holy Spirit.
---Philomena on 3/4/11


"And because you do not believe that "the rock" points to "faith" rather than the apostle as you testify, your "faith" is in the man and not God." --christian

I choose to follow the teaching of the Apostles which has been passed down through the generations for over 2000 years. If they taught that the Rock is Peter, why would I accept your explanation over theirs? From where does your explanation come? What year was that idea defined?
---Philomena on 3/4/11


Christian, I completely agree with you. Catholics don't realize the seriousness of Idolatry. Whether ancient or modern, it's inexcusable. For idolatry is the attempt either to localize God, confining Him within limits which they impose, where He is the Creator of the universe, or to domesticate God, making Him dependent on us, or to alienate God, blaming Him for His distance and His silence, whereas He is Ruler of nations, and not far from any of us, to dethrone God, demoting Him to some image of our own contrivance or craft, and no image can capture the fullness of the Lord. All idolatry tries to minimize the gulf between the Creator and His creatures in order to bring Him under our control. It reverses the respective position of God and us.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/11


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\\Yes, the Catholic church DOES teach on salvation by works.\\

So does anyone who believes that a person can be saved by simply saying the non-Biblical sinner's prayer.
---Cluny on 3/5/11


Ruben & Philomena - You both are DECEIVED. 1st Ruben - Yes, the Catholic church DOES teach on salvation by works. Even to the point that they go AGAINST Paul and say if anyone teaches salvation by anything else but works, let him be cursed. Research it, you will be amazed at what lies you have been told. 2nd Philomena - The Catholic church did NOT put together the Bible, the Holy Spirit of God did. Also, if the Bible teaches salvation by faith, NOT works, and the Catholic church teaches salvation by works, they are NOT lined up with the Bible.
---Leslie on 3/4/11


"Why would "God haters" put together a book against themselves? Do you know where the Bible comes from?" Philomena

The Bible is God inspired and the writers of the Bible had the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, that they can write what God has put in the hearts and minds onto print for our benefit. So the source of the Bible is from God the Holy Spirit and not the man.

And because you do not believe that "the rock" points to "faith" rather than the apostle as you testify, your "faith" is in the man and not God. Hence the RCs worship "their saints made of stones" and "their god made of wood and plaster" before their altar, week in week out, to no avail.
---christan on 3/4/11


"The Bible state they are God-haters and certain men crept in unaware...tonne"

Why would "God haters" put together a book against themselves? Do you know where the Bible comes from?
---Philomena on 3/3/11


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Where was Jesus when he renamed Simon? Caesarea Philippi: "I tell you, you are Peter (rock), and on this rock I will build my church...(Matt 16:18). Why did Jesus take them into pagan territory? There is a huge rock there, over 100 feet tall and 500 feet wide, which had a temple of pagan worship to the "god" Pan ("god" of shepherds/sheep). Jesus went there and promised Peter the keys to the kingdom when He ascended to His throne in heaven. Jesus is THE Shepherd. Peter had the revelation from the Father about Jesus and was given a new name and given stewardship over the flock! Jesus founded A church on the Rock, Peter. He did not say churches, plural. He said church, singular!
---Philomena on 3/3/11


christian, i agree...faith...

faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God
---aka on 3/3/11


Cluny while I do believe that you can use a sinners prayer unto salvation it was not first my idea. Romans 10:13 clearly says,"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." .---mima on 3/2/11

And who is it Mima that can call Jesus Lord?
Is it those who do what he tells them to do, or is it those who call him Lord, and do not keep his commandments?

Below is the answer, I pray, the Author of Salvation will not have to say to you on the "Day of Judgment".
(Luke 6:46)
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
---David on 3/3/11


i think Mat 16:18 has a double meaning and much word play. imagine Jesus building His church with man as the foundation. the savior becomes servant. i believe Jesus is the chief cornerstone and he will build his church on the foundation of the Living God.

the word play of scripture is missed because we are so literal and we build our doctrines based on English and not Greek and Hebrew.
---aka on 3/3/11


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The RCC has some wrong teachings.

The Bible says those who love GOD with all their heart all their strength and who love their neighbor as themselves will be saved.

Those who do not. No matter their church affliation will not. Matthew 25 does not mention denominations. It says those who do not love others will persih. Also read Jude and I John. Saying words does not get it.
---Samuel on 3/3/11


All religion is idolatry, and only obeying the Lord God Jesus Christ is salvation.
---Eloy on 3/3/11


Believe on the Roman Catholic Church? The pedophiles or the inventors of evil things? I believe in God and Jesus and that God raised Him from the dead. I personally don't understand why they have a church to begin with. The Bible state they are God-haters and certain men crept in unaware...
---tonne on 3/3/11


"on this rock" definition is, "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock." Matthew 7:24,25

The "rock" refers to "faith". "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." "Faith" according to Scripture cannot be earned and does not come from within but from without, only through the Holy Spirit.
---christan on 3/3/11


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//I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church...// Mt 16:18

Exo 17:6 Behold, I 1will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb2, and you shall strike the rock3, and water shall come out of it, and the people will drink4." And Moses did so, in the sight of the elders of Israel.

1. y hovah
2. in desolation
3. with the staff - power of God
4. Living Water
5. therefore, Eternal Comfort

Peter or the Rock? depends on the referent that you choose and why. Matt 16:16-18

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
---aka on 3/2/11


\\But the fact that they believe these things does not make them correct.
---mima on 3/2/11\\

Then why are you picking just on on the Roman Catholic Church, mima?

Are you a respecter of persons, and think it's passable when Lutheran and Reformed teach something, but not Roman Catholics?

Again, you commit the TOEVAH/ABOMINATION of a double standard. Proverbs 20:10.
---Cluny on 3/2/11


Mima, you seem to have a big axe to grind with the RCs. Be mindful of what Christ will say on Judgement Day, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22,23

Not only do the Rcs claim to believe in Christ, there are also many other denominations of Christians who also claim to believe in Christ. The real question pertaining to Christ's declaration is: does Christ know you. If He doesn't, RC or Baptist or Lutheran or Presbyterian - will be heading for the broad gate.
---christan on 3/2/11


It depends on what goes along with the prayer. Jesus says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him," in John 6:44. And Jesus says, "learn from Me," in Matthew 11:29. So, coming to Jesus includes personally submitting to Him, not just saying a prayer, but also "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23) Also . . . without holiness, "no one will see the Lord," we have in Hebrews 12:14 > also, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (in Philippians 2:12)
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/2/11


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Cluny you are correct. Both the Lutheran and Reformed traditions ALSO teach the necessity of baptism and what passes for the Eucharist among them, and also being in submission to their churches?

But the fact that they believe these things does not make them correct.
---mima on 3/2/11


May I point out that the Lutheran and Reformed traditions ALSO teach the necessity of baptism and what passes for the Eucharist among them, and also being in submission to their churches?
---Cluny on 3/2/11


Cluny while I do believe that you can use a sinners prayer unto salvation it was not first my idea. Romans 10:13 clearly says,"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." So that is the source of my belief in a sinners prayer. Now if you have anything against using a sinners prayer you can take it up with the author of the Bible. I know you're very knowledgeable and still I'm going to go with what the author of the Bible has to say!!!
---mima on 3/2/11


mima, as long as you think people can be saved by saying a non-Biblical sinner's prayer, you're in no position to accuse people of believing in salvation by works, because you are clearly believing the same thing.
---Cluny on 3/1/11

Exactly!!!
If Mima did not teach works, his answer would be "Nothing", when someone asks him "What must I do to be saved?"
If he tells them they are saved by saying a prayer, he is teaching them that they can save themselves by something they do.

Mima
If anybody here teaches works, the works which Paul taught against, it is you and those who believe as you do.
---David on 3/2/11


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They Are corrupted because they came from here, Mat.15 v's 9 & 14, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15, Rev. 17 v's 4 - 6.
---Lawrence on 3/2/11


Mima,

You believe a person can say a man-made prayer (even if he or she is not sincere in his confession) and obtained salvation and keep it. If the RCC teach salvation by works, then you teach salvation by works too.

You follow traditions of men (Sola Scriptura, denying the Motherhood of the Virgin Mary, the Bible has only 66 books, among others), and you want to attack the Roman Catholic Church?

I have been praying for you. Your bondage to traditions of men needs to be broken, in the Name of Jesus Christ. Those who the Spirit of God have notice your spiritual bondage as well.

Your hatred toward the RCC is from the devil.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/1/11


mima, as long as you think people can be saved by saying a non-Biblical sinner's prayer, you're in no position to accuse people of believing in salvation by works, because you are clearly believing the same thing.
---Cluny on 3/1/11


//The Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Catholic Church. In other words the Catholic church is AGAINST the Bible and God,//

I'm quite amazed at this statement, because the Bible is a book that was put together by the Catholic Church. It seems to me that anyone using the Bible is accepting the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. All teachings of the Catholic Church must be in line with the Bible.
---Philomena on 3/1/11


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mima,
Do you have a Roman Catholic ex-girlfriend or something?

Or was your mom beat up by a Roman Catholic?

Or did you loan money to a Roman Catholic and he stiffed you?

You seem to have an axe to grind. I can relate to that, but you're a pot calling a kettle black.

The official position of mima is to say a prayer (work) to go to heaven. One work, twenty works, what's the difference?

The RCC has Christ at the center of their works, and you don't. Your prayer is generic, and could be addressed to any god of any religion.
---James_L on 3/1/11


Faith without works is dead faith.

True, a person cannot earn their way to heaven by doing works, but because of their love of God and of others they DO the love commanded of them by Jesus. We are to act upon the love we have in our hearts to encourage others, to comfort others, to quench the thirst and to feed others, etc.

Denominational christians are only hearers of the Word. They wrongly join churches that make them feel good. Denominaational churches could not survive without the tithes of the congregation. The true church of Christ COULD survive without money.
---Steveng on 3/1/11


The Bible says we are saved by grace ALONE, in faith ALONE, by Jesus Christ ALONE, and NOT of works. ONLY through repentance and Jesus Christ can you be saved (Luke 13:3, John 14:6).
---Leslie on 3/1/11

First of all, the Catholic Church 'does not' teach you earn your way to heaven, secondly repentance is a work, just saying:)
---Ruben on 3/1/11


Mima* a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved" Mark 16:16

Mima* receive the Eucharist

" Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life."JHn 6:54

*AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church

"And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Mt 16:18

Mima* perform meritorious works

" He will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Mt 25:45

Mima*AND not die with any mortal sins.

"There is a sin that leads to death." 1 Jhn5:16
---Ruben on 3/1/11


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The RCC has no say of what God says. they're like the pharisees in Jesus' day adding to the bible their views.The bible says we must believe & accept Jesus is the only way to God. We must confess with our mouth he is Lord! this is the only way for our free salvation. Again no church creed nor rules can save us.
---candice on 3/1/11


The bible says this in Acts Chapter 2, verse 38.

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus also said: "Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
---Donna5535 on 3/1/11


The Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Catholic Church. In other words the Catholic church is AGAINST the Bible and God, NOT in line with them. If the Catholic church is right, that means Christ died in vain, and we still have to work our way into salvation -if that is the case, NO one will be in Heaven, and EVERYONE will be in Hell. The Bible says we are saved by grace ALONE, in faith ALONE, by Jesus Christ ALONE, and NOT of works. ONLY through repentance and Jesus Christ can you be saved (Luke 13:3, John 14:6).
---Leslie on 3/1/11


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