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Roman Catholic And Orthodox

Are their any major differences between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church? If there are, what are they?

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 ---Rob on 3/2/11
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You are right David. The Septuagint uses the same word for overseer/older man in the Old Testament for the 70 elders, which were not priests.

To say the Biblical word elder means priest is a similar situation as the development of the word gay. It means something different today than it did 30 years ago. Priests and elders have two distinct meanings in the Bible.
---Rod4Him on 4/11/11


If //RCC is a mix of Christianity and Roman Paganism/Mytholgy// is true, protestantism must be filled with the same.
---Rod4Him on 4/12/11


Both(RCC/Ortho) are a mix of Christianity and Paganism.

Like Modern day Santeria in Haiti! Christianity mixed with Tribal African Paganism

Orthodox is simply Christianity Mixed with Greek Paganism/Mythology

RCC is a mix of Christianity and Roman Paganism/Mytholgy.
---John on 4/11/11


\\In the dictionary one definition to the word "Elder", is Priest.
Was this the definition of "Elder" 2000 yrs ago, or was this definition assigned by the Church?

If you do a study of the word "Elder" in the Old Testament, you will soon discover that an "Elder", is not a Priest!\\

While COHEN is not the same word as elder in the Hebrew, the Greek word has TWO words for elder: GERONTA and PRESBYTEROS.

It is from the latter that the English word "priest" comes.
---Cluny on 4/11/11


Alan
Through time, new definitions are added to a word.
Example, the word "Cool".
The word "Cool" has more definitions assigned to it today, than it did 2,000 years ago.

In the dictionary one definition to the word "Elder", is Priest.
Was this the definition of "Elder" 2000 yrs ago, or was this definition assigned by the Church?

If you do a study of the word "Elder" in the Old Testament, you will soon discover that an "Elder", is not a Priest!
I am not one who gets my Biblical definitions from dictionaries, I see how the word is used in the Bible, and that is how I derive it's meaning.
---David on 3/16/11




David ... I was just cahllenging you assertion that in order to mean the same thing, words have to be spelt the same.

Your earlier comment was to Cluny & I think it best for him to respond, because I just cannot make out what you were talking about!
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/13/11


Alan
Very Good point, but you missed my earlier point.
Jesus Christ is a High Priest like..... Melchizedek.
We are told about the order of Melchizedek, to establish the order of Jesus Christ, (the type of High Priest he would be).

Melchizedek was Gods only Priest in that order, as Jesus Christ is Gods only Priest in his order.
If there were more than one Priest, in the order of Jesus Christ, it would be a PriestHood, (Many Priests).

If the Order of Jesus Christ were a Priesthood, wouldn't (Hebrews 5 & 7) have compared the order of Jesus Christ, to the order of Aaron and the Levites, which was a PriestHood?
---David on 3/13/11


\\The NT used the word priest and also the word overseer/older man, two different words for two different meanings.\\

However, in English, both PRESBYTEROS and IEREVS are conflated to the one word PRIEST.
---Cluny on 3/13/11


David, boot may mean truck in England, but it doesn't in America.

The point is that words, wanting to be understood in their own time and context, need to be studied in their own time and culture.

Priest in the NT was used as a priest in Judiasm and of all believers. The NT used the word priest and also the word overseer/older man, two different words for two different meanings.
---Rod4Him on 3/13/11


David ... In English, boot mean the same as trunk? Does hood mean the same as bonnet? Does color mean the same as colour? Favor & favour? Sidewalk & pavement?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/12/11




David, please see what I said earlier about the etymology of the English word "priest."
---Cluny on 3/12/11

Cluny
I looked up the word "Priest, and the word "Presbyters" in a Greek translation to see if they are of the same meaning, and discovered that they are not spelled the same way.

If the words have the same meaning, why aren't they spelled the same way?
The word "Priest" is used frequently in the New Testament, and if the "Presbyters" are "Priests", why isn't the same spelling being used in the Greek?
---David on 3/12/11


\\However, the following is what I asked, "\\/Please give book, chapter, and verse where it says//...//confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter// in the Old and New Testament." \\

What part of OR do you no understand?

Since there were no Christian PRESBYTEROI in the OT, or Jewish COHENIM with spiritually signifcant ministries ini Christian Churches in the NT, it would be impossible to do those.

And I made my choice about how I could answer your question in the variables you gave.

Sola Scriptura is nowhere taught in the Bible itself.
---Cluny on 3/12/11


David, please see what I said earlier about the etymology of the English word "priest."
---Cluny on 3/12/11


//Now you're changing the rules.//

You are diverting the issue again. I did not change the "rules" because I set no rules. You are quilty of changing the question. That's ok, but you did it, not me. Careful where your fingers are pointing.

However, the following is what I asked, "\\/Please give book, chapter, and verse where it says//...//confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter// in the Old and New Testament."

Notice, "in the Old and New Testament."

I am surprised you miss an opportunity to convince others of confessing to a priest. You convince me that that is an incorrect teaching, according to the Scriptures.

I know, SOLA is your game, but it is not a game.
---Rod4Him on 3/12/11


i believe that it is in James 5:13-15 that insinuations towards confession is made.Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well, the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.EVIDENTLY, that is NOT the only way. Jesus taught us 'And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.' SO BOTH WAYS GO
---andy3996 on 3/12/11


Cluny, the Scriptures speak of three kinds of categories of confession,
1. Secret confession between God and man alone.
2. Private confession between two people, one of whom has been sinned against by the other party.
3. Public confession requiring the exercise of church discipline.
"Secret confession" does not involve anyone else, Psa. 90:8. sin we commit. We think evil thoughts, we covet what another person has, we attribute false motives. These are sins committed in the heart. Such sins should be confess only to God because no one else was involved in the sin.
"Private confession" these sins directly effect other people. Jesus says if your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault,
---Mark_V. on 3/12/11


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.2 however NO PRIEST, elder or pastor can forgive sin. THAT IS GOD's work, still an elder priest can, pronounc, declare and make known GODS forgiveness toowards the penitent.
still this is not an office, and is not preserved for the CLERGY alone. anyone can take this function as long he/she is a vallid member of the church. no mystism or seperation.
---andy3996 on 3/12/11


Cluny part 2 confession:
these confession is just between the two persons, if he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
"Public confession" What if that person you confronted who has sinned against you does not want to repent? Again, Jesus gives clear instructions. Witnesses are to be brought along. The matter now moves from being private to being semiprivate. If the person will not repent even after being confronted by other witnesses then the final step is to be invoked. The matter is taken over by the church, and if the person still refuses to repent, then the church is to remove the person from the assembly.
---Mark_V. on 3/12/11


Cluny
Melchizedek and Aaron were both High Priest's, but the Bible tells us that Jesus, not Aaron, was a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Why was Aaron, not a High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek?
It is because Aaron's order was a Priesthood, and Melchizedek's order was not a Priesthood.
What is a Priesthood?
It's a collective of Priests, more than one Priest in the order.
The RCC is a Priesthood, not in the order of Melchizedek.

Now since the order of Jesus Christ is not a Priesthood and our High Priest resides in Heaven, to whom must we confess our sin?
---David on 3/11/11


Rod4Him, you asked me to give examples of confession to either Cohen or Presbyter.

I made my choice.

Now you're changing the rules.
---Cluny on 3/11/11


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James 5, good passage, however, it says,"Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed."

The elders are plural, and are overseers/older men and not a singular priest.

I'll have to think about the dilemma of the concept of confessing to "one another" and yet not talking about the things done in secret.

How about an example from the Old Testament?
---Rod4Him on 3/11/11


\\/Please give book, chapter, and verse where it says//...//confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter// in the Old and New Testament.
---Rod4Him on 3/11/11\\

Try James 5, where the sick is told to call for the PRESBYTEROI of the Church to anoint him with oil and pray over him, so that his sins will be forgiven, and notice that in this passage AUDIBLE confession is mentioned.
---Cluny on 3/11/11


Cluny, you mean to tell me you have not read what John said:

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son cleanses us from all sin" and "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us" and "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"
1 John 1:7-9.
God's word says, "He" is faithful and just to forgive us
It is God who forgives our sins, no where are we told to go to a priest and he forgives our sins. Not found in Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/11


//In fact, forgiveness of sins in both the OT and the Epistles is connected with auricular confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter.//

//Please give book, chapter, and verse where it says//...//confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter// in the Old and New Testament.
---Rod4Him on 3/11/11


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\\The Apostle John heard Jesus speak about the forgiving and retaining of sins, and speaks about the need to confess the sins we have committed -but our confession is to be made to God, whom we have offended. \\

Please give book, chapter, and verse where it says to confess your sins to God alone.

I'm still waiting.
---Cluny on 3/10/11


"...for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."

Argue with the Word not me.

This blog had already digressed from the exact question by the time I joined the current conversation.

//Of course, counsellors, lawyers, and physicians NEVER hear of confidential professional matters from their clients that should not be spoken about, right?//

Sounds like a diversion from scripture and priests listening to things that ought not to be spoken.

When Jesus said, "Thy sins are forgiven..." He didn't say, "go tell the priest your sins first."
---Rod4Him on 3/11/11


David, you have offered no proof that "Pray to your Father in secret" is the same thing as "Confess your sins to God alone."
---Cluny on 3/10/11

Cluny
I never really thought about it, but outside of the Lord's Prayer it is hard to prove, and I am not one to stand on a lone verse, so I will appeal to your Logicality.

In (Hebrews 7), we are told when the Law is changed, the Priesthood is also Changed.
The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is a Priest in the order of Melchizedek, and not in the order of Aaron and the Levite Priesthood.

Melchizedek was the High Priest, and the only Priest in that Priesthood.
In the RCC there are many Priests, as in the Levite Priesthood.
---David on 3/11/11


Ruben, What did the apostles do? What they did was to point sinners to the One who alone can forgive sins. The good news heard by the sinners in Acts 2 was that forgiveness of sins is to be found in Jesus Christ. He died for the remission of their sins. That was the message consistently proclaimed by the apostles. The Apostle John heard Jesus speak about the forgiving and retaining of sins, and speaks about the need to confess the sins we have committed -but our confession is to be made to God, whom we have offended.
When Simon the sorcerer believed the good news but for the wrong reason, Peter told him,
"Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps He will forgive you for having such thought in your heart"
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11


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\\Granted, this is not directly related to "confessing to a priest,"\\

Then why bring it up as if it were of any relevance to the subject of major differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy--the original question of this blog?

Of course, counsellors, lawyers, and physicians NEVER hear of confidential professional matters from their clients that should not be spoken about, right?
---Cluny on 3/10/11


"...for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."

Granted, this is not directly related to "confessing to a priest," but the principle is still there not to speak of some things. No wonder some priests have problems, listening to things that should not be spoken.
---Rod4Him on 3/10/11


My Father in law who was raised Roman Catholic always remebered when as a young man he asked a Bishop who was a friend of his family to hear his confession. The Bishop told hime I do not have time right now. Go to the Altar and pray to GOD. When you do He will listen and forgive you. Then you can go home. My Father in law never went to confession again. I asked him why when he was still RCC. He said why should I go to a man when I can talk to the one in charge?

My Priest I go to is JESUS. Book of Hebrews.
---Samuel on 3/10/11


Did the apostles hear the confessions of any of these people and give them absolution? No.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11

Mark,

How do you know? Jesus had already gave them the authorithy to forgive sin "8But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men."(MT 9:8)

"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."(Jhn 20:23)

People would orally confess thier sins in front of the entire congregation..Glad that has change!
---Ruben on 3/10/11


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Ignatius, thanks that youy did not refuse what i said. that makes it a lot easier for those who honnestly are looking for some info about your church group. so that indeed they do not start to generalise every orthox church when they hear something out of the normal.problem is that most peopl don't see the difference between the oirthodoxie as many amongsst the orthodoxie and catholics keep on calling every modern church protestant. generalising is a human weakness.
---andy3996 on 3/10/11


David, you have offered no proof that "Pray to your Father in secret" is the same thing as "Confess your sins to God alone."

That's what I'm asking about.
---Cluny on 3/10/11


Through the ministry of the Holy Spirit, those who heard what the apostles proclaimed were convicted in their hearts of their sinfulness. So they cried out to the apostles, "what shall we do?" Acts 2:37. What were they asking? They realized they had rejected the promised Messiah, the One foretold by the prophets. Peter commanded them, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.." Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their numbers that day"
Did the apostles hear the confessions of any of these people and give them absolution? No.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11


Pray to your father in secret" does not mean "Confess your sins to God alone." You are simply imposing a pre-conceived view on this and the rest of the Lord's Prayer.
---Cluny on 3/8/11

Cluny
Who do you think the Father is, mentioned in that Prayer?
Is it Our Heavenly Father, or do you believe it to be a Parish Priest, we are to be alone with in that closet?
---David on 3/10/11


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"---Ignatius
To call your spiritual leaders father is a direct violation of this verse,
Matthew 23:9," And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
---mima on 3/8/11

Mima, please explain all the Scriptures I have posted where the Apostles themselves call spiritual leaders "fathers". It is quite clear that even Christ' own disciples did not take him literally (but you do, how very strange).

Would it be a correct assumption that you believe Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint John, Saint James, and the other Apostles, were in deep error (and this error they passed along to the Early Christians through Scriptures and Oral Tradition)?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/9/11


---Ignatius
To call your spiritual leaders father is a direct violation of this verse,
Matthew 23:9," And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
---mima on 3/8/11


Taking Christ' words in context, He was using hyperbole. Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of "fathers" and "rabbis" because they were hypocrites.
In IC.XC.,
---IgNatius on 3/8/11

That's the answer I was looking for.
Thank you Ignatius.
---David on 3/9/11


David,

What we do know is that Christ was not speaking literally in Matthew 23:8-10.

The word "Father" and "Child" was used by the Holy Apostles, not always denoting a blood relation (i.e., Acts 7:2, 22:1, 14, 1 John 2:13, 1 Cor. 4:15, 1 Cor. 4:17, Phil. 2:22, Philemon 10, 1 Tim. 1:2,18). Saint Paul was the Early Christians Spiritual Father in the faith, as he told them (1 Cor 4:15).

Saint Peter (and Saint John) called David "Father" and called the OT Patriarchs "Fathers" (Acts 3:13,25, 5:30, Acts 4:25).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/8/11


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#2

Read Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 (Stephen refers to our "fathers" in the faith), Acts 7:32 (Stephen calls God the God of our "fathers.") and Acts 13:17,32,36, 24:14, 26:6, 28:17,25 (Saint Paul also refers to the God of our "fathers" in the faith). Read Rom. 4:1 (Saint Paul calls Abraham our "forefather.), Rom. 4:16-17 (Saint Paul says that Abraham is the "father" of us all and the "father" of many nations), and Rom. 9:10 (Saint Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our "forefather").

Saint James called Abraham "our Father" (James 2:21).

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 3/8/11


#3

Did not Christ told us to "honor our Father and Mother"? Christ used the word "Father" to refer to spiritual leaders (Matt. 3:9, Luke 3:8, Luke 16:24,30). So how should we interpret Matthew 23:8-10?

Taking Christ' words in context, He was using hyperbole. Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of "fathers" and "rabbis" because they were hypocrites. Christ was against the Jewish leaders because they did not practice what they preach, but they demand there fellow man to lavish them with special titles. Christ was not against the titles per se.

In IC.XC.,
---IgNatius on 3/8/11


\\Vs.6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret, and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.\\

"Pray to your father in secret" does not mean "Confess your sins to God alone." You are simply imposing a pre-conceived view on this and the rest of the Lord's Prayer.

In fact, if it is interpreted literally, there should be no public prayers in services.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


David, please give Book, Chapter, and Verse where the Bible says to confess your sins to God alone.
---Cluny on 3/7/11

(Matthew 6:6,9,12)
Vs.6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret, and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Vs.9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Vs.12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
---David on 3/8/11


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And have you not seen how St. Paul and St. Stephen addressed gatherings in synagogues as "men, brethren, and FATHERS"? Or how St. John called some people to whom he wrote "FATHERS"?
---Cluny on 3/7/11

Hmmm...That's a good point and something to think about.
Those Fathers mentioned in (1 John 2) do appear to be church leaders.
I was hoping the Orthodox teaching, could shed a some more light on why the Lord said what he said in (Matthew 23:9).

I guess I will continue scratching my head about that verse.
---David on 3/8/11


Confession: you can read James 5:16 'confess your sins TO ONE ANOTHER'

I don't mean it is the only, or even best, way, but the Bible does permit that
---Peter on 3/8/11


\\If Jesus is referring to a priest in that prayer, can you explain for me what he says in (Matthew 23:9)?\\

Without looking at your Bible, can you tell me why you disobey the next verse and use the honorifics Mr. and Mrs., which are nothing but variants of the word "master"?

And have you not seen how St. Paul and St. Stephen addressed gatherings in synagogues as "men, brethren, and FATHERS"? Or how St. John called some people to whom he wrote "FATHERS"?

Did they disobey Jesus thereby?
---Cluny on 3/7/11


David, please give Book, Chapter, and Verse where the Bible says to confess your sins to God alone.
---Cluny on 3/7/11


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NOWHERE does the Bible say to confess your sins to God alone.
---Cluny on 3/6/11

Do you believe the one Jesus calls Father in (Matthew 6:6), in the Lord's Prayer, is a Priest?
If so, were the Levite Priests addressed as Father?

In that prayer, Jesus tells us to be alone with our Father and confess our sins before him.
If Jesus is referring to a priest in that prayer, can you explain for me what he says in (Matthew 23:9)?
---David on 3/7/11


\\When you confess sin, do you confess your sin before the Priests in your Church, as they do in the RCC?\\

Following the instructions and practice of the Bible, we confess our sins to God in the presence of a Priest.

NOWHERE does the Bible say to confess your sins to God alone.

In fact, forgiveness of sins in both the OT and the Epistles is connected with auricular confession before either the Cohen or the Presbyter.
---Cluny on 3/6/11


\\Catechumen?\\

A catechumen is a person being instructed (catechized) in preparation for Baptism.
---Cluny on 3/5/11


According to the NT, there are three orders of ordained ministry:

Bishops
Presbyters
Deacons.
---Cluny on 3/5/11

Thank you for the information, Cluny, I have always wondered why there are men called Priests in the Church.
When you confess sin, do you confess your sin before the Priests in your Church, as they do in the RCC?
---David on 3/6/11


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//PRESBYTEROS, usually translated as ELDER in the KJV (though there is another word that also means "elder") is the cognate of the English word "priest," through the middle English form "prester". Compare with the words "presbitero" (Spanish) or "pretre" (French--there are accents here that won't come across).//

This may be true, but that is defining the word anachronistically. A study of the word priest in the NT reveals that the priest is a priest in Judiasm, Jesus became a High Priest, and in Rev. all believers seem to be priests. Elder is an older person or leader in the NT times. This is a very brief explanation, however, I did check these facts with a Greek professor at a University.
---Rod4Him on 3/6/11


\\Could you give me a biblical reference as to the mention of New Testament priests in the Bible, or is that informantion only found in the books you have suggested?
---David on 3/5/11\\

According to the NT, there are three orders of ordained ministry:

Bishops
Presbyters
Deacons.

PRESBYTEROS, usually translated as ELDER in the KJV (though there is another word that also means "elder") is the cognate of the English word "priest," through the middle English form "prester". Compare with the words "presbitero" (Spanish) or "pretre" (French--there are accents here that won't come across).
---Cluny on 3/5/11


The following books were recommended to me when I became a Catechumen.
In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/4/11

Catechumen?
Well That certainly explains your vast knowledge of church history.(I had to look the word Catechumen up in the dictionary.)

Thank you for the reference sources, but I must tell you, you scared me a little when you mentioned a Parish Priest.
Could you give me a biblical reference as to the mention of New Testament priests in the Bible, or is that informantion only found in the books you have suggested?
---David on 3/5/11


\\The documentary about the Orthodox Church was not a short one. I watched it on PBS and it was produced by the Orthodox Church.\\

What was the name of this documentary? And when did you see it?

If this was THE LONG SEARCH with a certain Mr. Eyre, it was not produced by the Orthodox Church.

It had only ONE segment on Orthodoxy in it, and Eyre totally misunderstood the significance of what he was seeing.

BTW--I've noticed that anything about any form of Christianity on TV, be it PBS or another channel, is usually distorted and misrepresented.
---Cluny on 3/5/11


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Only the Christian Church is righteous and acceptable.
---Eloy on 3/4/11


\\some orthodox are trinitarian others are dualistic others again are MONOSOPHIC" (andy3996 on 3/3/11)\\

andy, you can't justly be expected to understand a word if you can't even spell it right.

The word you're looking for is MONOPHYSITE--but those Churches called thus prefer the name MIAPHYSITE.

It refers to a point of Christology that cannot be explained in 125 words.

But trust me, andy, these churches are indeed all Trinitarian.

And what do you mean by "dualistic"? Do you have any idea yourself? WHICH Churches are you calling this?
---Cluny on 3/4/11


"
The documentary about the Orthodox Church was not a short one." (Rob)

Which documentary was it? In any case, the entire history and tradition of Orthodoxy can never be fully explained through a documentary. I have several historical books that 600+ pages long (one is 1,500+ pages long), and one 300+ pages that and it only deals with one aspect of the Great Schism (The Filioque: History of a Doctrinal Controversy).

"I have also taken time to review Orthodox web sites.
---Rob on 3/3/11"

Have you also taken time to visit a Orthodox Church and experience Orthodoxy? Hear our beautiful chants/hymns? Personally discuss issues with a parish priest?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/3/11


"furthermore to state the difference between the two is difficult because that also depends what ORTHODOX church you attend
some orthodox are trinitarian others are dualistic others again are MONOSOPHIC" (andy3996 on 3/3/11)

You do realize that there is a difference between the Eastern Orthodox Church (those churches which are in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople) (to which Cluny and I are part of) and the Non-Chalcedonian churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, etc?

BTW, all Eastern Churches are Trinitarians. The difference lies in pure Christological doctrines.

Our Church (The Church, the Orthodox Church) in particular are One in dogmas and practices.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 3/3/11


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"furthermore to state the difference between the two is difficult because that also depends what ORTHODOX church you attend
some orthodox are trinitarian others are dualistic others again are MONOSOPHIC" (andy3996 on 3/3/11)

You do realize that there is a difference between the Eastern Orthodox Church (those churches which are in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople) (to which Cluny and I are part of) and the Non-Chalcedonian churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, etc?

BTW, all Eastern Churches are Trinitarians. The difference lies in pure Christological doctrines.

Our Church (The Church, the Orthodox Church) in particular are One in dogmas and practices.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 3/3/11


Thanks Cluny, But the Serbian one is the closest to me and that's still 90 miles away. I think the next closest is about 200 miles away.

There is an American Orthodox Minister who is in our town trying to start a church in his home. But I want to see the complete liturgy as well. I will try to make a few trips. To cover the week.

I wanted to go to a Greek, American, or Russian Orthodox.

I will check further and see what's out there. I live in a very remote area, so choices a very very limited.
---John on 3/3/11


Orthodox fast more than Catholics. Orthodox use the Julian calendar. Catholics add the filioque to the Symbol of Faith. Orthodox haven't defined dogmata about Purgatory or the Immaculate Conception. Those are some differences I've noticed. :-)
---John.usa on 3/3/11


Rob

Do you want me to recommend books written about the history/doctrine of the Ancient Church (1st-8th centuries)? Books written about the Great Schism in particular (your original question, which can not be fully explain in 150 words)?

In IC.XC.,
---IGNatius on 3/3/11


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David,

The following books were recommended to me when I became a Catechumen.

- The Orthodox Church by Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware) of Diokleia
- The Orthodox Way (by the same author)
- The Truth of our Faith (Volumes I and II) by Elder Cleopa of Romania
- Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Father Michael Pomazansky
- Faith- Understanding Orthodox Christianity

Orthodox literature comprise a very large number of books. I must, however, stress that the best approach will be to visit a canonical Orthodox parish and personally talk to the parish priest.

BTW, Saint John of Damascus "On the Orthodox Faith" can be found online.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/4/11


Romans 5:19,"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous". So unless you are that one man being spoken of here how can your obedience make you righteous?
---mima on 3/3/11

Mima
On the Day of Judgment, will we be condemned by the sin of Adam, or by our own sins?
On the Day of Judgment, will those who enter into the kingdom of God, enter by their acts of righteousness, or by the righteousness of Jesus Christ?

In (Matthew 25:31-46), wasn't it the acts of righteousness of those sheep, that they were able to enter into the Kingdom of God?
Remember this, Jesus said One must be born again to enter into Gods Kingdom.
---David on 3/4/11


Concerning obedience,
the Bible says in Romans 5:19,"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous". So unless you are that one man being spoken of here how can your obedience make you righteous?
---mima on 3/3/11


Let me know if you want to HONESTY study our Church or you are just here to further bash us, like the Devil does to God's Children.
In iC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/2/11

I, for one, would love to read some of your church literature, Ignatius.
I was, and still am, completely ignorant of the Orthodox religion.

I was raised a protestant, but even as a child, I could see the Ticket to Heaven Scenario without obedience to God, was a false teaching.

There are alot of beliefs supported on this blog, and so far, the Orthodox Religion is the only one I do not disagree with.
---David on 3/3/11


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Cluny and Ignatius, I am not Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. I am Christian, which means I am a believer in CHRIST, and CHRIST ALONE for my SALVATION.

To answer the question if a bunch of Protestants can answer the question I asked, the answer is indeed yes if they do study and research.

The documentary about the Orthodox Church was not a short one. I watched it on PBS and it was produced by the Orthodox Church.

I have also taken time to review Orthodox web sites.
---Rob on 3/3/11


the true difference that divides RCC and ORTHODOX can be said in one expression. PAPAL PRIMACY. romans say their pope is the first amongst equals the Orthodox refutes this primacy.
furthermore to state the difference between the two is difficult because that also depends what ORTHODOX church you attend
some orthodox are trinitarian others are dualistic others again are MONOSOPHIC. it is a real deal for every ORTHODOX church has its more or less own free doctrines without really nagging about points and comma's like the RCC does. still there are within the orthodoxie EQUAL standards accepted as authorative and none of their free formulations can ever alter this.
---andy3996 on 3/3/11


Just a tip, John.

You'd be more likely to learn more if you attended Holy Week services as well, and preferably in a parish that celebrated them in English.

Serbs tend to use mostly Slavonic, in my experience.
---Cluny on 3/3/11


I know Church history fairly well. The Great Schism happened in part due to the RCC trying to take over and declare the pope in charge of all churches. A point that I agree with the Orthodox is indefensible.

The Orthodox are seperate groups. Greek, and Russian are the first two who come to mind. I do not know a lot about them. I have visitied the local Greek orthodox church. It is quite nice and has some beautiful ancient icons.

If Ignatius you have a web site that you would suggest. I will visit it.

I also know the first Iconoclasts were Eastern orthodox.
---Samuel on 3/3/11


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The True Orthodox Church was founded on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2 v 38.

The pagan romans listened to the power of darkness, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15
devised the False orthodox churches beginning with the rcc,
then her daughters churches fallowed after her, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6. Those that worship the gods of islam, buddha, hindu etc will fall inline also.
---Lawrence on 3/3/11


And you actually think a bunch of Protestants will know the answer to this question, Rob?
---Cluny on 3/2/11

I AGREE!

I am planning to visit an Orthodox church during Pasche. (Serbian)

I might just learn something.


---John on 3/2/11


Rob

You really want to know? You really want to research/study (not watch a short television documentary) about Church History, expecially the events that lead to the Great Schism of 1054AD? You really want to better understand the rich history and tradition of Orthodoxy? You really want to read books written by Orthodox Christians on this topic or even Catholic (and Protestant) ones? Let me know if you want to HONESTY study our Church or you are just here to further bash us, like the Devil does to God's Children.

I agree with Cluny. Most, if not all here, are ignorant of Church History or even Scriptures themselves.

In iC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/2/11


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