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Why No Biological Father

Why wasn't Joseph allowed to be Jesus' biological father?

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 ---Leon on 3/4/11
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JamesL, if you have a problem with theologians like Augustus, Calvin, Luther - you basically have to ask yourselves as to whether they teach what's in the Scripture or not. What's important, do you read the Scripture from Genesis to Revelation and take only what is pleasing to your flesh and discard the rest that's not pleasing to your eyes? For Christ declared -

"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
---christan on 3/13/11


"At birth, I don't think baby humans know about their sin condition. So I believe, despite their sin condition, they're not held accountable for what they don't know & if they die in infancy or as toddlers, their soul is spirited back to God in heaven." Leon

Leon, teach what's from the Scripture and not what's from your own understanding. Scripture says - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12

There's no exception to this declaration, "all have sinned" and "the wages of sin is death". I would recommend you study the doctrine of imputation.
---christan on 3/13/11


JamesL, David said, I was altogether born in sin. He was not saying his mother was a hoe. He was stating, we are alll born in sin. We are all born separated from God. In Adam all die, is not only physical death but spiritual death. Plants and animals also are subject to the FALL of man...and even teh earth groans waiting to be redeemed. The earth didn't sin, but suffered the consequences of sin. EVERYONE is going to die physically. Even Christians DIE physically. It is appointed once for man to DIE, and then the judgement.

OUR SOUL is redeemed from hell...my spirit and soul are not one in the same.

If there was no original sin, then no need for Jesus Christ!
---kathr4453 on 3/13/11


In Psalm 51:5, when David said he was shaped in iniquity and conceived in sin, what did he mean? We know that his parents were married when he was conceived, therefore the circumstance of his conception was not in sin. Rather, David his saying that from the moment he was conceived, he was a sinner. That an unborn child who has never committed any acts of sin is generally hard for most people to believe. But David did not say he had personally committed any acts of sin but that he was a sinner.
---kathr4453 on 3/13/11


Leon,
the only "sin condition" a baby has is condemnation unto physical death. Evidence of that condemnation can be found in the fact that some babies die.

A baby is not born spiritually dead. There is not one shred of biblical support for that silly notion.

How could a baby not be held accountable for his sin, if he had any? Are there two ways to the Father? a back door? where's the scripture for this.

Considering the genealogies in the gospels, proving Jesus is a PHYSICAL descendant of Adam, that would make Jesus born spiritually if spiritual death is inherited physically.

Total foolishness.
---James_L on 3/13/11




Jesus had to be born Sinless.
---Angel_x on 3/13/11


Leon, search "twenty years and upward" in the scriptures. Youll have to read it for yourself and let the Spirit teach you.
---Jasheradan on 3/13/11


Christan, apparently youve never read in scripture where God declares that one man is never held accountable for the sins of another. That is unjust.

You are reading that verse completely wrong. *Physical* death reigned from Adam to Moses even though sin was not imputed to them because Moses had not yet given the law. The scripture seems pretty clear on the matter.

Physical death is a result of not eating of the tree of life in the garden of Eden. That is why God removed Adam and Eve from the garden. The tree remains guarded for a reason. No man may eat of it because he would live forever!

Spiritual death is the result of SIN which is not imputed where there is no law.
---Jasheradan on 3/13/11


Jasheradan: First, I believe God is just & His ways are higher than ours...
At birth, I don't think baby humans know about their sin condition. So I believe, despite their sin condition, they're not held accountable for what they don't know & if they die in infancy or as toddlers, their soul is spirited back to God in heaven.

"God's age of accountability for man." Though Adam & Eve were never children, are you implying Adam was 20 years old when God told him he'd die in the day he ate of the forbidden fruit?
---Leon on 3/13/11


\\He then concluded that since a baby cannot possess faith, a dead baby is doomed to hell.\\

Please note that the pre-Reformation Churches of East and West never accepted this proposition.
---Cluny on 3/13/11




JamesL, Romans 5:12-14 confirms that "death reigned from Adam to Moses". And why was there death? Because of sin. And why was there sin? Because of the law. What law? When God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam disobeyed...

And God cursed Adam (who represented mankind) dust you are, dust you shall return - the curse of the fleshly death. God then chased Adam out of the garden, it was the curse of the spiritual death (alienation) from God.

Everyone born of the flesh will definitely die as Scripture says "The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law." 1 Cor 15:56. What about your soul and spirit? Have they been justified by faith?
---christan on 3/13/11


Jasheradan,
excellent point.

Augustine taught that. At least his philosophy was consistent, though unbiblical. He taught (accurately) that everyone must have faith in Christ to be justified.

He then concluded that since a baby cannot possess faith, a dead baby is doomed to hell.

It comes from misreading Romans 5. Anyone can compare that chapter to 1Corinthians 15 and see that Paul is clearly teaching that we are condemned to die physically in Adam, not spiritually.

Christan,Mark v, Leon and many more share that misreading. But they somehow believe a spiritually dead baby has a back door into grace???

After sin becomes alive and we die, then it is only by the Spirit of God that we are "quickened"
---James_L on 3/12/11


Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHERE THERE IS NO LAW.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come


Infants have no law. They cant comprehend it. The death talked about here is a PHYSICAL death. You two are WAY off.

JamesL, youre wasting your time trying to convince a HYPERcalvinist of anything (even with scripture). Not even people of their own denomination can talk sense into them.
---CraigA on 3/13/11


Christian, it does not surprise the answers some some give. How about genuine believers who love the Lord with all of their hearts, show up at the Bema Seat of Christ with no good works. The believer would have to be in chains his whole life to not do something good. Even in chains he could not possibly do everything bad. How about praying to God. But even worse sticking by that because of pride. And I hear we also have sinless people, who sin but it's not called sin anymore. I've also heard that there is righteous people without the righteousness of Christ. They must be those who they claim came before Adam fall, a line of sinless people, and there is some left from that line. Just ridiculous.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/11


This first happened at the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve believed in the lie of Satan instead of God's truth. And this deception will continue until you are born of the Spirit by the will of God.
christan on 3/12/11

Romans 1 isn't an indictment against Adam/Eve after they sinned. NO WAY did THEY turn the incorruptable God into a corruptable image, nor did Abel,Enoch or Job.

How could a WHOLE NATION who were not born again.(nations are not born again) given the Law under Moses, if men are to depraved to know and understand Gods Laws, taught to children from birth. God didn't empower "a nation" to KEEP the LAW. If they were born again given the Holy Spirit to OBEY, at birth???) there'd be no need for Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/13/11


MarkV, you are speaking to JamesL who believes and claims, "I have never said that men aren't spiritually dead. I have said that CHILDREN aren't spiritually dead." on 3/11/11, really mind-boggling.

I really thought I have heard it all until then, that a person professing to be a "Christian" denies that the fall of Adam was not absolute - that they have that "inborn" ability to communicate with God without His Spirit.
---christan on 3/12/11


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"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1

JamesL, what do you think Paul was referring to in the above verse when he declared "dead"? I assure you that the "dead" is clearly referring to the man's spirit who's totally cut-off from God in the fall of Adam, which we inherited.

Paul here clearly was speaking to the Ephesians who were "alive" in the flesh but "dead" in the spirit and explained that it was the Holy Spirit who "quickened" (revived) them from their "dead" spirit. You ask for Scriptures and yet when presented with Scriptures, you deny.
---christan on 3/12/11


Joseph couldn't have been Jesus' biological father because he (like ALL us from Adam) had inherited the deadly spiritual corruption, i.e., a sin nature. The only way Jesus (the Son of God, the last Adam) could've been the Lamb of God, born without spot or blemish (SIN), he had to be conceived thru perfection of God, the Holy Spirit.

Since Adam, SIN has been a spiritual blight upon us ALL. Sinless Jesus is the only one who could have & has made a way for us out of a sinful hell condition on earth.

In Adam, our spirit degenetrated (died). In Jesus, ALL have an opportunity to be spirit regenerated (quickened, BORN AGAIN).
---Leon on 3/12/11


Sounds like someone believes that toddlers who die go to hell.

They arent old enough to understand the consequences of breaking Gods laws and yet you think they are born "dead". They are "born and shapen in iniquity", they DIE when they know of the law and break it. They are "alive without the law" but when the law comes "sin revives and they die" just as Paul said.

Do some study on the age of 20 in scripture. Youll find that is Gods age of accountability for man.
---Jasheradan on 3/12/11


\\James L, when a baby is born he is spiritually dead.\\
---Mark_V. on 3/12/11

Mark V,
if you had shown even one scripture to support that position I might be persuaded.

\\How can he do that as a baby?\\

He can't. That's my point. Babies are not spiritually dead yet. That exchange happens at the age of accountability.

How do you explain verse 28 tthey did not acknowledge God ANY LONGER? Someone in total depravity from birth could never acknowledge God in the first place. You agree, right?

From scripture, please
---James_L on 3/12/11


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James L, when a baby is born he is spiritually dead. Though he has done nothing in life, when he does begin to grow up, his sinful nature begins to show in his actions. He becomes all those things you posted.

"
BECAME fools
BECAME futile
EXCHANGED the truth for a lie
EXCHANGED the glory of God for a image"


How can he do that while a baby? He begins to show his nature as he grows. Spiritual death is separation from God. What he will need is to be born of the Spirit, by the Spirit. That is why Jesus said you must be born again of the Spirit. Jesus does not tell a baby to be born again, he would not understand what Christ is saying. He tells those who have become fools, and done what you posted.
---Mark_V. on 3/12/11


He wasn't married to her, yet, when the Holy Spirit started Jesus in Mary's womb. So, it would not have been moral. Plus, of course, God was going to be the Father of Jesus.

By the way, Jesus existed before He went into the womb of Mary. So, Mary was not His mother like God is His Father, because He existed before His "mother" Mary was on earth.

In Luke 2:48, Mary says to Jesus, "Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." So, she refers to Joseph as being Jesus' "father". So, they could both be His "parents" (Luke 2:41) without either one contributing any egg genes or sperm genes.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/12/11


Your use of the word "become" from Romans 1 is missing one important verse in the same chapter. They did not "become" fools, futile because they were first good as you seem to believe.

Paul declares in verse 26, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections" and what's the "cause", verse 25 says, "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

This first happened at the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve believed in the lie of Satan instead of God's truth. And this deception will continue until you are born of the Spirit by the will of God.
---christan on 3/12/11


FOLKS! I already answered Leons question!
---John on 3/12/11


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God is pretty clear in scripture that men believe lies because they first reject the truth. Not the other way around.

Men are given the proof of Jesus Christ as the Messiah thru the writings and calling of the Holy Spirit and they must decide if they believe it or not. If they reject that truth, they are opening themselves up for even greater deception. 2 Thess 2:10-12
---Jasheradan on 3/11/11


\\So, according to your theology, children are not born dead and when they grow up to be men, they become dead spiritually?\\
---christan on 3/11/11

I like your use of the word BECOME, because that is EXACTLY the word used in Romans chapter 1.

BECAME fools
BECAME futile
EXCHANGED the truth for a lie
EXCHANGED the glory of God for a image

You simply don't have an answer for scripture, do you?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Christan. Your doctrine amounts to no more than duct tape theology.

The petals are falling off your TULIP, and you're trying to re-attach them with duct tape

But insults and vain philosophy can't refute scripture.
---James_L on 3/11/11


v21 even though they knew God they BECAME futile, their heart was darkened
v22 they BECAME fools
v23 EXCHANGED the glory of the incorruptible for an image
v25 they EXCHANGED the truth for a lie
v28 they did not acknowledge God ANY LONGER
v32 they KNOW the ordinances of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death

This about those who lived b/4 the flood, and WHY God's wrath came upon them. Notice it's all PAST TENSE.

Paul begins Romans with HISTORY, and carries that history of God/man throughout.
Yes, we are all spiritually dead,however our conscience is NOT DEAD.That's the point of Romans. We're ALL ACCOUNTABLE because through our conscience we're not totally depraved, as some teach.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/11


From the beginning of time FAITH was the only thing pleasing to God. b/4 Adam sinned there was no need for faith. When Christ reigns for 1000 years, no need for faith either.

Hebrews 11 begins from Genesis 1 and continues about FAITH. It gives us the definition as well. Nowhere in Hebrews 11 is there any statement FAITH is given to those born again first, or to a select group of people.

Faith is an attitude, believing what God, who you cannot see, said is true, and acting upon that truth.

A man who says there is no God is a FOOL. Unbelivers do believe there is a God. (and fools don't). OUR faith is in Jesus Christ and HIS sacrifice for our sin.

OT people placed theur faith in the promise of the coming Redeemer.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/11


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JamesL, "I have never said that men aren't spiritually dead. I have said that CHILDREN aren't spiritually dead."

What do children grow up to become? A dog or a pig? If they are boys, they become men and girls, they become women. So, according to your theology, children are not born dead and when they grow up to be men, they become dead spiritually? You're stepping all over your rubbish and foolish words that answering your analogies is a total waste of time.
---christan on 3/11/11


Christan, Mark V, Donna66

I have never said that men aren't spiritually dead. I have said that CHILDREN aren't spiritually dead.

Nobody is BORN spiritually dead, we DIE, as Paul said he did. Sin KILLS us when we EXCHANGE the glory of the incorruptible for an image, etc.

Rom 1:21-22 "For even though they KNEW GOD they did not honor him...BECAME FOOLS.

verse 28 "they did not see fit to acknwledge God ANY LONGER, God gave them over...

How can someone born a fool become a fool?
How can someone born futile become futile?
How can a spiritually dead not acknowledge God any longer, as if he did previously?
How can a spirituall dead person exchange truth for a lie?

answers, please?
---James_L on 3/11/11


JamesL, you make a point that only confirm that there's such a thing as Spiritual regeneration or as Christ says "born of the Spirit". If the man is not spiritually dead as you seem to believe (and multitudes along with you), Christ wouldn't have taught the doctrine of Spiritual birth and Paul wouldn't have expounded on it in his epistles in great length.

As for Christ, he came in the flesh and only He was born sinless, as He was begotten of the Father, He was God. You and I are from Adam and not from God. There's a great difference being begotten of the Father and being born of the flesh through Adam. Hence, only Christ atonement for His people was the perfect sacrifice that pleased God.
---christan on 3/11/11


My interpretation of Paul's statement in Romans 7 is this.Paul was spiritually dead because of his heritage from Adam. Jesus, being the son of God and inheriting HIS spiritual nature, was uniquely sinless, the only Man to be so.

But Paul didn't KNOW he was spiritually dead, until he he understood the law and realized he was a sinner.
However, this very knowledge of the law made him accountable for it!

A modern paraphrase puts it like this: Rom 7:9 I felt fine when I did not understand what the law demanded. But when I learned the truth, I realized I had broken the law and was a sinner, doomed to die.
Rom 7:10 So the good law, which was supposed to show me the way of life, instead gave me the death penalty.
---Donna66 on 3/11/11


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James L, the more you say the more you get into trouble. Your interpretations of many passages are so far off. Now you question whether the descendants of Adam or spiritually dead.
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
1 Cor. 2:14. Hello?
What did Jesus say? You have to be born again of the Spirit. Why? Because the natural man is spiritually dead. He has to be reborn to enter the Kingdom of God. Those lost are separated from God.
"It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing." John 6:63. To whom does He give life? To those who are spiritually dead. Hello?
---Mark_V. on 3/11/11


Christan,
That comment about Nicodemus was funny. I got a good chuckle out of that.

But on a more serious note, if Jesus had told Nicodemus to be born twice physically, then there might be a comparison.

But we know Paul was speaking of spiritual death, since he was still alive physically.

My question is IF we are born spiritually dead, then how could Paul say he died when the Law cam?

He did, in fact, say IT KILLED ME, and I DIED.

Also, read my comments about Romans 1. How can a spiritually dead person BECOME futile, if he was already that way from birth?

If physical descendants of Adam are born spiritually dead, then how does Christ escape? Maybe you think He didn't come in the flesh?
---James_L on 3/10/11


"In Romans 7, Paul says that he died when the Law came." JamesL

You must connect Paul's teaching with Romans 5:12, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Paul was referring to the very first law that slain Adam and all his posterity (which included you and I and all to come in this age) in Genesis 2:16,17.

"How could he be killed if he was already dead?" JamesL

You sound like Nicodemus in John 3:4, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" The dead refers to his spirit, dead to God.
---christan on 3/10/11


Mark V,
There is no scripture which says we are born spiritually dead. Read Romans 1:18-32
v18 wrath of God against those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
v21 even though they knew God...they BECAME futile...their heart was darkened
v22 they BECAME fools
v23 EXCHANGED the glory of the incorruptible for an image
v25 they EXCHANGED the truth for a lie
v28 they did not acknowledge God ANY LONGER
v32 they KNOW the ordinances of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death

This is at the age of accountability, when spiritual death occurs. Or do you believe this is speaking of believers, and they can lose their salvation?
---James_L on 3/10/11


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James L, he didn't realize he was dead already. When he saw the law in his mind it killed him. He didn't die that minute. All descendants of Adam have a fallen nature. Whether they see the law or not. The unbelievers don't see themselves breaking any laws. They are blind to the Truth. They have no spiritual discernment. They are dead in traspasses and sin. They rebel against God and do not know it. You are getting into more trouble just because you don't believe believers have good works. There is hundreds of passages that teach that with genuine faith comes good works. And everyone found at the Bema Seat of Christ will have good works. No exception.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/11


Mark V,
I think you may have read my post wrong.

I didn't say "many became sinners" is in Romans 7. I said it is in Romans 5, which is speaking of the physical ramifications of Adam's sin. Compare the chapter with 1Corinthians 15, where Paul is clearly speaking of PHYSICAL death and resurrection.

In Romans 7, Paul says that he died when the Law came.

It is an abuse of scripture to say that he was already dead and only realized it when the Law came. He says in 7:11
"But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me."

How could he be killed if he was already dead?
---James_L on 3/9/11


This was Paul's declaration to in Ephesus about how one became a Christian, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1

First, he says it was the Spirit that gave the Christian life (born of the Spirit as taught by Christ in John 3) and it was while they were "dead in trespasses and sins". If this does not speak of "sin nature" and the alienation between God and man, I assure you that the Spirit has not visited your darken hearts, as yet. Hence your denial that such a thing as "sin nature" does not exist.

I do no not judge you but the Word of God does. Scripture speaks of nothing but sin, sin, sin from Genesis to Revelation, and yet you deny.
---christan on 3/9/11


James L, your comments are wrong, Romans 7:9-11. You said,
""Many became sinners" would be better rendered "many became exposed to the effects of sin"
Paul was not stating he became a sinner when he was expose to the effects of sin or when he saw the law. He was already a sinner before that, he just didn't know it until he saw the law.
Nature refers to the inherent tendencies of a person. All descendants of Adam are inherently sinful.
In v. 5 "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death." When the law came people were in bondage to the law. Doesn't mean they were not sinful before the law.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/11


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\\You don't it is in our nature to be sinful....
---Scott on 3/8/11
||

Wrong.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


What false stories Mima?
---John on 3/8/11


I am so appreciative of Christiannet.
The great differences in belief among us fellow bloggers becomes ever more apparent. The "sin nature" question, the "false stories" by John in another blog, the statement that God does not love sinners by Eloy, really serve to highlight our differences. And I appreciate Christiannet having a place for the differences to be seen.
---mima on 3/8/11


christan, you can't get "sin nature" out of any of those verses you quoted.

In fact, it's proving my point: that sin is a choice and when we sin we act contrary to our nature as God created us.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


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Cluny, I have to disagree with you. We are sin nature. Look at nature it is a me first mentality. not the "last shall be first, first shall be last" like God says. Example is a lion hunt. Big animal eat then the smaller one eat. When do you teach a kid how to sin, bite, lie, be selfish. You don't it is in our nature to be sinful. God saved us from ourselves.
---Scott on 3/8/11


\\And more importantly, if the man is not sinful by nature, Christ sacrifice was all in vain.\\
---christan on 3/7/11

Would you care to substantiate that claim with scripture?

Most who use the term "sin nature" are caught up in Augustinian doctrine that we are born spiritually dead. But Paul said in Romans 7:9-11 that he died when He understood the Law, then sin killed him.

Romans 5 is speaking of the physical ramifications of Adam's sin, which we will all experience. Compare with 1Cor 15:20-22

"Many became sinners" would be better rendered "many became exposed to the effects of sin"
---James_L on 3/8/11


\\And more importantly, if the man is not sinful by nature, Christ sacrifice was all in vain.
---christan on 3/7/11\\

You've gotten it wrong, as I've already posted.

If we act according to our nature, there is no sin.

In short, there's no such thing as a sin nature.
---Cluny on 3/7/11


No such thing as a "sin nature"? How would one explain:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners," Romans 5:12,19

"...who were dead in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 1:1

"When they sin against you (for there is no one who does not sin) and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near" 1 Chronicles 6:36

And more importantly, if the man is not sinful by nature, Christ sacrifice was all in vain.
---christan on 3/7/11


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Was Adam created with a "sin nature"?

No. But he freely chose to sin.

If sin were natural to us, we would not need a Redeemer. After all, do we need to be saved from having red hair, or brown eyes, or saffron skins?

But since we sin AGAINST our nature, that's why our sins need to be dealt with, repented of, confessed, and forgiven.
---Cluny on 3/7/11


Is not anything born of a woman born with a sin nature, exempting only Adam and the Angels?
Sorry Joseph, Jesus has a Father but no creator being there before the beginning.
---larry on 3/7/11


Joseph was Jesus' earthly father and he provided food and clothing and shelter to him as a child, and he showed him how to tend sheep and do carpentry.
---Eloy on 3/7/11


\\Cluny this statement astounds me surely you want to correct it.
---mima on 3/6/11\\

Not at all.

I will repeat.

There is no such thing as a "sin nature."

Sin is actually UNnatural to us. When we freely sin, we go AGAINST our natures as God created us.
---Cluny on 3/7/11


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"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10
---christan on 3/7/11


\\"There's no such thing as a sin nature."
So is the statement that you don't have a nature/desire to sin? \\

Following the Holy Scriptures, the Orthodox Church teaches that sin is not part of our original ontology. It is an add-on that is UNnatural to us.

"If we say we have no sin" is not talking about t,he non-existent "sin nature" but rather actual personal sins.
---Cluny on 3/6/11


"There's no such thing as a sin nature."
---Cluny on 3/5/11

Cluny this statement astounds me surely you want to correct it.
---mima on 3/6/11


This converstion has made me wonder ...

Kingship & inheritance rights passed from father to son.

Yet Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So if Jewish lady marries a non jew, the offspring is not Jewish. But a Jewish man married a non Jew, his offspring can't be Jews.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/6/11


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\\However, he was exempt from the curse of Jehoiakim\\

Apparently the prophecies of Ezekiel and Jeremiah are not in your Bible.

You know--the ones about "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father...." Ever hear of it?

(And so much for the silly idea of the fictional "sin nature" being transferred through the paternal line, as some here have claimed.)
---Cluny on 3/6/11


"There's no such thing as a sin nature."
So is the statement that you don't have a nature/desire to sin? Wouldn't that make you without sin? Since you think there is no sin nature that would imply that you do not sin.
I John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Humm seems appropriate huh?
---Elder on 3/5/11


"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29
---christan on 3/6/11


\\Joseph, the father of Jesus, was one of Jehoiakim's descendants (through Jeconiah).
---John on 3/5/11\\

Yet, God thought enough of St. Joseph to make him the guardian of His Incarnate Son.
---Cluny on 3/5/11


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PAST#3 PLEASE POST!

One man had to be both heir to and offspring of David, without being the genetic descendant of Jehoiakim. This problem required a divine solution.

THE SOLUTION...

God created a solution through the miracle of the virgin birth. Although Joseph was one of Jehoiakim's offspring (through Solomon), Mary was not. She was a descendant of Nathan, one of David's other sons (Luke 3:31). God's promise to David was fulfilled because Mary was the biological parent of Jesus.
The virgin birth also addressed the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Kingship was an inherited right. By Joseph, Jesus inherited a legal claim to the throne of David.
---John on 3/5/11


LAST POST#4 PLEASE POST!

However, he was exempt from the curse of Jehoiakim because Joseph was not his genetic father.
So the miracle of the virgin birth accomplished God's will in two ways. First, it granted Jesus a legal claim to the throne of David. And second, it maintained the integrity of the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Indeed, Jesus was not one of Jehoiakim's offspring.





---John on 3/5/11


I agree with Cluny's and Josef's answers on 3/4/11 and would add another prophesy fulfilled in this light:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
I do also see the Johoiakim link, although John's method of sharing information may need some improvement.
But, don't we all in individual areas?
Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
---micha9344 on 3/5/11


God wanted Jesus to be born without sin.This is what the Immaculate conception is all about. He chose a woman(Mary) to be the vessel. If Joseph had been the biological father, Jesus would have been born as a mortal man. The conception took place between Mary and the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit made it a most Holy Conception and birth. Joseph was Jesus' father. Adopted or legal. I don't know how that would be worded.
---Robyn on 3/5/11


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obviously if that were the case he would have been born in sin,or been under the original sin of adam. jesus was born without sin,not possible if joseph was his biological father.
---tom2 on 3/4/11

Thanks for informing/reminding me of this. GOD had a good reason for NOT letting Jesus have an earthly, biological father: The Avoidance of SIN in Jesus' life.

Another person's viewpoint often helps another see things more clearly. Thanks again!
---Sag on 3/5/11


\\Simply because the sin nature comes through the father. If Jesus had an earthly father He would have a sin nature.\\

There's no such thing as a sin nature.
---Cluny on 3/5/11


Very good Rob. Study... (2 Tim. 2:15)

"Sin was passed down to each generation by blood ever since Adam." Are you absolutely certain that's true Gordon?
---Leon on 3/5/11


POST#201 "CHRISTIANS ARE IGNORANT SERIES"

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER...

THE CURSE OF JEHOIAKIM...

An unusual curse in Jeremiah 36:1-32 gives new insight into the virgin birth of Jesus.

THE CURSE...

Jehoiakim was a king of Israel. He angered God by burning a scroll that Jeremiah the prophet wrote. God cursed Jehoiakim by indicating that none of his children would sit on the throne of David (Jeremiah 36:29-31). And although Jehoiakim had children, scripture shows that none of them ever reigned as King David had.

THE PROBLEM...

Joseph, the father of Jesus, was one of Jehoiakim's descendants (through Jeconiah).
---John on 3/5/11


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PART #2 MODERATOR PLEASE POST.

THE PROBLEM...

Joseph, the father of Jesus, was one of Jehoiakim's descendants (through Jeconiah). Joseph's offspring could not claim David's throne because of the curse. Jesus laid claim to the throne of David (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30, Hebrews 12:2). If Jesus had been born of Joseph, the curse would have been contradicted.
Also, God had promised David that one of his physical descendants would reign on the throne of his kingdom forever (2 Samuel 7:12-13). As explained above, Joseph was excluded from being the genetic father of the future king of Israel.
It was impossible to fulfill the requirements of both curse and promise by natural means.
---John on 3/5/11


Simply because the sin nature comes through the father. If Jesus had an earthly father He would have a sin nature.
---Elder on 3/4/11


obviously if that were the case he would have been born in sin,or been under the original sin of adam. jesus was born without sin,not possible if joseph was his biological father.
---tom2 on 3/4/11


"Why wasn't Joseph allowed to be Jesus' biological father?"
Because it was written that Jesus was to born of a virgin. Isa. 7:14>Mat 1:20-23
---Josef on 3/4/11


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To fulfill what was written in Isaiah the prophet, "Behold, a Virgin shall conceive...."
---Cluny on 3/4/11


Because GOD chose the Holy Spirit to be Jesus' biological father.

Actually, GOD himself was Jesus' biological father. The Holy Spirit just delivered the "seed" into Mary's womb.
---Sag on 3/4/11


"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8,9
---christan on 3/4/11


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