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Church Before Israel In Rapture

Why does the church supersede Israel in the rapture?

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 ---tonne on 3/6/11
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kathr4453, you are so right. The things of God are shown to the people of God by the Spirit of God.
Those who think that God will pour out His wrath on the Saved will see no need to receive Christ while they are in the Great Tribulation.
They think, in error now, they are supposed to go through the Tribulation so it will not surprise them when they do. These will be part of those who say at the Great White Throne Judgment, "Hey God I preached your Word and did great things." You understand what I am saying. Your wisdom is in the Lord. God Bless.
---Elder on 3/23/11


Now just wait a minute and breath and pray.

When the rapture occurs is important. But it does not decide if we are lost or saved. I have brothers and sisters in JESUS who do not agree with me on this issue. But I have no problem praying with them or asking them to pray for me.

My prayer here is that we can disagree but still recognoize JESUS will come when he comes.

Keith Green wrote he was not sure. But he had settled on a plan. He would pray for pretrib being true. But prepare for Post Trib. That to me is not a bad point.
---Samuel on 3/23/11


Lutherist, firstly, you have made it clear you are anti-semitic. That's the first mistake in your theology. When you realize that Israel, and God's eternal covenant promises to Her will be fulfilled, in spite of your gentile arrogance, then you will be taking the first step towards truth. Until then, it is all a waste of time Elder to tell these people anything. Including those who believe the Church replaced Israel, or that 70AD fulfilled any of these future events.

Elder we know those LOST do not have the mind of Christ or His wisdom to understand Revelation, Daniel or any OT Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. RE, Isaiah 14, Zech 12-14, Ezek 36 and so many more.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


"Those who are emotionally committed to a Pre-Trib Rapture escape clause, can see virtually anything they want to see in scripture somewhere. AMAZING!"
Lutherist
And... those who close their eyes to Scripture can not see anything. They are the blind hoping someone else is just as blind. They will resort to misdirection and other things to gain support for their perverted views, yet they reject Scripture.
kathr4453 has reported plainly what the Scriptures say. Reject me and listen to her and you will see what the Scripture teaches here.
Pay close attention to her comments.
---Elder on 3/23/11


Those who are emotionally committed to a Pre-Trib Rapture escape clause, can see virtually anything they want to see in scripture somewhere. AMAZING!
---Lutherist on 3/22/11




Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


No angel has ever washed their robes and made them clean by the Blood of the Lamb.

The Church however was purchased by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 5:27
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/11


Lutherist, so you are saying that calling someone idiot is righteous judgment? I guess in your form of "religion it is!
Your word "pure" comes from a Greek word (Katharos) that means free from impure admixture. It can mean a Christian's freedom from falsehoods/defilements of the flesh. Angels are never referred to in the later manner.
Clean is a reference to human Salvation.
Your focus is to demean me instead of trying to understand God's Word.
You need to get into understanding the spiritual message God is trying to give you. You have yet to understand the simple words.
kathr4453 knows what's right, listen to her.


---Elder on 3/22/11


Elder-

You and Pastor Herb really like to throw around salvation JUDGMENTS. Be careful... for you will be judged in exactly the same way you judge others.

Only YOU could read PURE and not see CLEAN. Do you really believe that God's Angels would be clothed in DIRTY linen?
---Lutherist on 3/22/11


You are making a LOT of bold statements that you believe support your position... However, you have yet to show us a SINGLE VERSE that says that WE (Christians) will be part of the army that will be with Christ at his Second Coming. I'm still waiting for a BIBLICAL response...

---Lutherist on 3/21/11

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come,( SECOND COMING) and all the saints with thee.

---kathr4453 on 3/22/11


I agree with you "Lutherist" you are sorry. If you try real hard you may be able to come up to being an idiot. It is better than the cockatrice that you are as a pusher of false doctrine. You serve your master well.
You have again proved my point.
Now show us where the Bible says, in your reference, that the angels robes are clean! You haven't found it yet.
Clean is a reference to our Salvation.
Clean is the key word, but since you don't understand Scripture I realize why you say what you do. (Gotta love me huh?)
---Elder on 3/22/11




Elder-

"Angels are not spoken of as being "clothed in fine linen, white and clean." Find and post where the Bible makes any statement like that." (Elder 3/21/11)


(Re 15:6) And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, CLOTHED IN PURE WHITE LINEN, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
(KJV)

I'm sorry Elder... But you're an IDIOT!
---Lutherist on 3/21/11


Samuel:
His first coming was to the earth, His second coming is to the earth. The rapture is not his second coming because he does not touch the earth. He will be seen at the second coming but not at the rapture by the people left on earth. His second coming we will be with him riding horses. If the rapture and the second coming are the same where do we get the horses? Or how do we come with Him if we are still here on the earth?
Pastor_Herb

Do you not teach we go to heaven at death? Therfore all the dead saints are already in heaven and just coming to get a body according to your teachings.

So you say Rev. 19 is the second coming. That this passage ties into Matthew 25?
---Samuel on 3/21/11


I always believe that all scripture is for inspiritation and teaching. But the Pretrib say that is false. Why?
---Samuel on 3/21/11


---Lutheristm your problem with Herbs post is a common one. The elect spoke of here are the Jews. ---mima on 3/20/11

Well hey,you're an astounding teacher of commonality's.

Judah/Judeans are 1/13th of collective name of Israel.
Israel was a collective title as being elect.

U look for jews...who may or may not be Judean's.
Christ and I will look for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
Isa45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Matthew 10:6
But go rather to lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 3/21/11


In the scriptures I read of one general resurrection. Christ states "in the resurrection"
Joh5:29 And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I do not read of multiple raptures. I also do not read where the non-believers will be given a second chance. It is my belief that salvation is not by chance, but by God's sovereign choice.
---trey on 3/21/11


"In SCRIPTURE... ANGELS are God's heavenly army."
Lutherist
Well, I showed you where the armies spoken were/are the Bride. Scroll down and read it.
Angels are not spoken of as being "clothed in fine linen, white and clean." Find and post where the Bible makes any statement like that.
While you are at it (you've been asked again) tell us who the "WE" are you spoke of.
It appears to me that you have your mind made up and don't want to be confused with the facts.
---Elder on 3/21/11


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Rom.11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

God calls Paul and it's the calling out the body of Christ primarily Gentiles. Has nothing to do with the OT. or Trib, which is tied to the OT. primarily for the Jew, the body of Christ is insulated from God's dealings with Israel

Paul the only-writer in the Bible to write about the Body of Christ-His Church Eph 1:20-23

Body of Christ (members) saved already by the Gospel of Christ 1 Cor 15:l-4, 2 Tim 1:9

Paul the only apostle that tells of "being caught up"
I Thess. 4:l6
---michael_e on 3/21/11


Pre-Tribbers-

You are making a LOT of bold statements that you believe support your position... However, you have yet to show us a SINGLE VERSE that says that WE (Christians) will be part of the army that will be with Christ at his Second Coming. I'm still waiting for a BIBLICAL response...

Also... exactly WHERE, in scripture, do you get the idea that the "ELECT" are JEWS?????

In SCRIPTURE... ANGELS are God's heavenly army.
---Lutherist on 3/21/11


and THE MYSTERY, God's secret purpose (not foretold), but was hid in God from before the foundation of the world and revealed to and through Paul.
---michael_e on 3/20/11

WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO PRE-TRIB!!!

THE MYSTERY...
Rom.16:25...according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began"
>>>
Paul did NOT play games, but REVEALED THE MYSTERY.

WHICH WAS THAT THE GENTILES WOULD ALSO RECIEVE SALVATION.

DAH!!!

NEXT VERSE ROM16:26

"BUT NOW REVEALED and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to salvation that comes from faith".
---John on 3/20/11


"Exactly WHERE does scripture say that WE will come with Christ at his Second Coming?"
Lutherist
Sir please tell me who the "We" is that you speak of?
Note Rev 19:14 "the armies clothed in fine linen, white and clean." This is not angels as they are not spoke of being clothed this way.
Now why do I say that? Is it speculation?
No! Read Rev 19:7-9. This Bride is in heaven so "she" comes back with Christ in v14.
Now how in the world did the Bride get in heaven to be able to come back? Through the event called Rapture of course. You know the thing Cluny says won't happen.
---Elder on 3/20/11


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---Lutheristm your problem with Herbs post is a common one. The elect spoke of here are the Jews. And since Herb was not Jewish he is not included the elect that are gathered from the four winds of the earth. I once played this fact out to a couple from Caracas Venezuela. They were members of the Jewish clan and escape Hitler '39. After hearing me out they both decided to read the Scriptures for themselves. They were absolutely astounded.
---mima on 3/20/11


2 Tim. 2:15 says, "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Nearly everyone recognizes the division between the Old and the New Testaments, but few know where the OT. ends and the NT. begins. Even fewer know the difference between PROPHECY,(which was foretold), and THE MYSTERY, God's secret purpose (not foretold), but was hid in God from before the foundation of the world and revealed to and through Paul, the apostle of the gentiles.
Such as 1 thess 14:13-17 and many more.
---michael_e on 3/20/11


Speaking of an eye opener lot will be the reaction of these those who believe there's no Pre- rapture. The rapture takes place????? The good news about all this is that if they are saved their going in the Pre-rapture that doesn't exist. HA-HA-HA
---mima on 3/20/11


Cluny and others are right. The Pre-Trib rapture ideology (started in the 19th century) is a man-made tradition. Along with the sinner's Prayer, altar calls, revivals, etc, they comprise Evangelical extra biblical Tradition.

In IC.XC,,
---Ignatius on 3/20/11


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"Is Pastor Herb saying he's NOT part of the ELECT?"
Lutherist
Let me answer for Rev Herb....
Yes, that is exactly what he is saying. Herb is part of the Bride of Christ not the Elect.
He is not part of the Friends of the Bride, the Elect, the 144,000 or the Tribulation Saints. He is part of the Church/Bride of Christ. Herb is a New Testament Christian through the Blood of The Lamb.
---Elder on 3/20/11


PASTOR HERB 3/19/11 - we will be with him riding horses -

The words Horses and words like Chariots in the Bible have to do with warfare,They have a spiritual meaning in some cases like in REVELATION,That there's spiritual war Going on.
---RICHARDC on 3/20/11


There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 3/20/11


Mima and all Pre-Tribbers-

Excuse me if I take a stab at answering Pastor Herb.

Exactly WHERE does scripture say that WE will come with Christ at his Second Coming?

I read in (MT 24:31) that at his Second Coming, he will send forth his ANGELS to gather his ELECT from the four winds. As Pastor Herb acknowledges, this IS the SECOND COMING! Is Pastor Herb saying he's NOT part of the ELECT? If Pastor Herb is correct and NO ONE is saved after the Rapture, "People will not believe in God after the rapture because God will send a strong delusion that they shall believe a lie." (Pastor Herb 3/16/11) How can there still be ELECT still on the earth at Christs official Second Coming?
---Lutherist on 3/19/11


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John the more you say the more we see how little you know. Lazarus was not part of the Bride. The Rapture is reserved for the Church age Saints. And again, Jesus was not questioned about the Rapture.
Now wouldn't it be strange if someone asked Jesus about baptism and He went off telling them about the Lord's supper?
Man, for goodness sake, John, Learn to divide Scripture. Get away from your stubborn thoughts just because "you gotta be right."
---Elder on 3/19/11


---Pastor_Herb on 3/19/11 has presented an excellent argument. The argument is unanswerable by those who do not believe in the rapture. So hats off to Pastor Herb
---mima on 3/19/11


Martha answered, I know he will rise again in the resurrection AT THE LAST DAY." That is what you posted.
Note this big fellow Jesus didn't say that Martha did. Now you go read it!
---Elder on 3/16/11

Okay???

So did he answer her and said NO Martha they will be raptured 7 years before my arrival.

OR..

Did he say I AM the Life and Resurrection and then raised Lazarus.

So what's your point?

Since he said NOTHING about Pre-trib or aliens etc. In fact the entire bible (Gen to Rev) saids absolutely NOTHING about a Pre-trib rapture.

You fished all you could Elder and found NOTHING.

TIME TO REPENT!!!
---John on 3/19/11



Samuel:

His first coming was to the earth, His second coming is to the earth. The rapture is not his second coming because he does not touch the earth. He will be seen at the second coming but not at the rapture by the people left on earth. His second coming we will be with him riding horses. If the rapture and the second coming are the same where do we get the horses? Or how do we come with Him if we are still here on the earth?
---Pastor_Herb on 3/19/11


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Pre-trib rapture IS the strong delusion, Pastor Herb.
---Cluny on 3/16/11

What say you about a Pre-Trib Return of Jesus?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/17/11


//---Cluny on 3/17/11//
Everthing was not revealed at one time.
Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us ...
Luke 18:31-34 Jesus explained His death burial and resurrection and the 12 understood none of it until it was revealed.
Eph.3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints
---michael_e on 3/17/11


Elder:

A confrontation based on PERSONAL OPINION is when, a solid scripture based argument is rejected out-of-hand, with a so-called statement of fact, without ANY SCRIPYURE at all to back it up.
---Lutherist on 3/17/11


Proponets say the pretrib rapture is not the second coming. But is not the rapture JESUS coming to get his people. Which is the Second coming? Notice how he comes in the air. I Thess. Which Matthew 25 talks about it being as visible as Lighting in the air.

Notice how revelation states every eye will see him. Again tying into Matthew. 25.

A Christian can be kept from falling in the midst of great tribulation. They can be hidden from the sight of their enemies without having to be removed from this world.
---Samuel on 3/17/11


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\\Specific BCV's Please
---michael_e on 3/16/11\\

I gave one already, namely Jesus's prayer in the Upper Room.

But there's also the Parable of the Wheat and Tares in Matthew 13, where the harvest is the END OF THE WORLD. Jesus doesn't say that He will gather up the wheat a week before harvest time (or 1007 days for those who believe in a false millennium), does He?

No. they BOTH grow together until the harvest, THEN the tares are gathered up first.
---Cluny on 3/17/11


---Cluny on 3/16/11//

Specific BCV's Please
---michael_e on 3/16/11


Lutherist, all I did was to copy and paste your exact comment and make a comment myself. I do not consider that a confrontation.
Confrontation occurs when people like John can't separate and understand biblical time periods. They try to make others think someone is calling Jesus a liar because they are the one that misquotes scripture. I do defend/confront against that unchristian/ungodly behavior.
There are many on CN that don't want to face the facts because they have their mind made up.
By the way there have been raptures before why not again?
---Elder on 3/16/11


John let's see who is off base. I have said that you do not look at scripture correctly to get the real truth of the message. You posted, "Well Elder you just called Jesus a Liar since I quoted Him directly!
Here's another verse for you...
JOHN 11:23,24
Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again.
Martha answered, I know he will rise again in the resurrection AT THE LAST DAY." That is what you posted.
Note this big fellow Jesus didn't say that Martha did. Now you go read it!
---Elder on 3/16/11


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\\//There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.//

BCV PLEASE
---michael_e on 3/16/1\\

Matthew 1 through Revelation 22.

Jesus prayed, "I pray that You do NOT take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the Evil One.

You pray, "Don't listen to Jesus, God. You take us out of this world!"

Isaac Watts sang:
Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry bed of ease
While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas?

The rapturist sings, "You'd better believe it!"
---Cluny on 3/16/11


You error my friend. There will be "tribulation saints" those who will recieve the messiah after the "rapture". but you are correct in that most people will be turned over to strong delusion because they refused to believe the truth.
---Tsuanne on 3/16/11


//There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.//

BCV PLEASE
---michael_e on 3/16/11


\\because God will send a strong delusion that they shall believe a lie.\\

Pre-trib rapture IS the strong delusion, Pastor Herb.
---Cluny on 3/16/11


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Chuck Missler has a very interesting sermon on the pre-rapture. I gotta admit he has me rethinking whether or not the rapture is pre-trib or mid-trib. You can find it on youtube
---CraigA on 3/16/11


EVERYONE:

I'm new to this blog, and I'm really enjoying interacting with ALL of you!

However, I have noticed that a few people like to "Bully" those who do not agree with them. This isn't right. EVERYONE should be able to express themselves without having their salvation questioned.

I believe that those of us who have experienced this would like to see these individuals stick to a SCRIPTURE based discussion and put aside PERSONAL ATTACKS.

I hope that my fellow bloggers agree.
---Lutherist on 3/16/11


People will not believe in God after the rapture because God will send a strong delusion that they shall believe a lie. They were abducted by aliens.

For those of you who don't go in the rapture, the Bible says Rev.16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and BLASPHEMED the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. Will you blaspheme also?
---Pastor_Herb on 3/16/11


There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 3/16/11


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You'll find it interesting to know that *some* victims of alien abduction come back with stories telling them that in the near future those who would not conform to the coming world changes will be "taken away to prison planets".

Now I ask you. Who do you think is behind that explanation? Satan! Even he knows there will be a catching away and he's already throwing lies out there to explain it away to the lost.
---Jasheradan on 3/16/11


Mima, I dont think even *that* would turn people to Christ. Its not a matter of proof. There were people that witnessed the miracles of Jesus and attributed them to satan. Millions of Christians disappearing from earth would just be attributed to the work of an advanced extraterrestrial lifeform "beaming" them away.

---Jasheradan on 3/16/11


Elder:

I don't see a pre-trib rapture in scripture. You aparently do. I enjoy a good and honest SCRIPTURAL discussion.

I don't like confrontation based on personal opinion. If you are happy with your position, who am I to try to convince you otherwise.
---Lutherist on 3/15/11


John says,"Imagine 865 Million Christians suddenly disappear from the Earth.

If this happened even the most Satanic Hollywood Celebrity would believe in Christ.
LOL!!!

But the Bible says in Luke 16
:31


" And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
---mima on 3/16/11


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Christians will unknowingly accept the Mark of the Beast if they believe in the pre-trib rapture. It's a trick of satan's to make christians take the Mark of the Beast thinking that it isn't the Mark of the Beast because they believe that they will be raptured before the Mark of the Beast is issued. The great delusion to make people believe in a lie.
---Steveng on 3/15/11


"Come up here, and I will SHOW YOU WHAT MUST OCCUR after these things."
Lutherist
After which things? After the Church that's what.
The church age will be over and the age of endurence will occur during the Great Tribulation.
---Elder on 3/15/11


A believer is a believer! The first Christians were Jews, when they died, they preceded US.

Jesus will stand on Mount Zion with the 144,00 believers from Israel. They have taken His name (Re 14:1).

There's only one Rapture, for ALL BELIEVERS, and it's at the Last, 7th Trumpet (1Cor 15:52) and (Re 11:12). This is the "Come up here." that is directly tied to the RESURRECTION and RAPTURE of the two martyred Witnesses (who represent all Gentile and Hebrew believers).

The (Re 4:1) "Come up here." is merely an invitation to JOHN PERSONALLY to see the panorama of the revelation of of Jesus Christ (Re 1:1) and (Re 4:1) "Come up here, and I will SHOW YOU WHAT MUST OCCUR after these things."
---Lutherist on 3/15/11


Reason simply and biblically is because God has in part blinded Israel for the sake of the gospel--- once preached to Gods timeframe He will take away this blindness to deal once more with His covenant people.The anti-christ will explain the dissapearance of the rapture and the "strongly deluded" will believe him, others will not and they are the persecuted saints of the tribulation..
---richard on 3/14/11


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Thanks for your good comments. Everyone should Google "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts," and "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy."
---Jon on 3/11/11


Samuel look closely at Dan 3:22-25 and you will see that the 3 Hebrews went to be with the Lord while the others around them were killed by the same fire. Also realize that this is not about the Rapture.
Rev 1:7 is about the Second Coming.
John if you read the Bible you will see that is what happens. The fact is that the Hollywood crowd and those like them will not endure for Christ. They will believe the lie of the Beast and receive the mark.
---Elder on 3/9/11


//Why does the church supersede Israel in the rapture?//

The "Church" is the body of Christ. Israel is not.
It's amazing that some think the Lord is not capable of keeping a secret until the right time to reveal it, such as 1 Thess 4 or 1 Cor 15.
---michael_e on 3/10/11


When one looks at the lunacy of a "Secret Rapture" it's so laughable that people would actually believe it.

Imagine 865 Million Christians suddenly disappear from the Earth.

If this happened even the most Satanic Hollywood Celebrity would believe in Christ.
LOL!!!

That is precisely why when the Lord returns they would not be given a chance to believe or repent, but will be immediately thrown in the fire pits of Hell.
---John on 3/9/11


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One of the reasons for Christ returned to Earth is to deal with the Jewish people. Those who fail to see that the Jews are yet to be blessed greater than any other peoples have a great deal of trouble in their eschatology.
---mima on 3/9/11


//---Elder on 3/9/11 When will people realize that Matthew 24 is not about the Catching away/Rapture. It is only about the second coming.//
Only when they realize that the body of Christ and the nation of Israel are not the same
---michael_e on 3/9/11


The Hebrew children were kept while inside the fiery furnace. GOD did not take them out. Joseph was kept from death in prison GOD did not take him out of prison.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The pretrib secret rapture says this verse is false. Why?
---Samuel on 3/9/11


Why does the church supersede Israel in the rapture

WOW, where did you get that from. Surely not the bible.
---francis on 3/9/11


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Well Elder you just called Jesus a Liar since I quoted Him directly!

Here's another verse for you...

JOHN 11:23,24

Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again.
Martha answered, I know he will rise again in the resurrection AT THE LAST DAY.

So Elder answer this..

THE GREAT COMMISSION ...

1) Do we witness until the coming of Christ?

OR...

2) Do we witness until 7 years before the coming of Christ?

MATT 24...

And then "ALL" the peoples of the earth will.. see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven"

NO SECRET RAPTURE! (but then again you did call HIM a Liar)
---John on 3/9/11


When will people realize that Matthew 24 is not about the Catching away/Rapture. It is only about the second coming. That is the question that was asked and answered.
People try to discredit Scripture because one part doesn't reference what is true somewhere else.
Rev. 3:10 is still true and valid.
---Elder on 3/9/11


In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus says when He will gather His people. Nowhere does the Holy Spirit in canon scripture say anything like, "Jesus will come before the Great Tribulation." If "pre-trib" is so important, like ones nowadays treat it like it is, why wasn't so important to God, that He made a clear statement of a pre-trib Rapture, in the Bible? God is not stupid, He knew and makes no such plain Bible statement.

I see there is one gathering, post-trib., and so any truly converted Jews will be raptured, post-trib., like everyone who has obeyed Jesus. And the obedient nation of God is all who obey how He rules us in His peace (Colossians 3:15). This is the true Israel > Romans 2:28-29.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/8/11


John must save his post to use later. Same old lies as before in the same format.
About the Rapture, "It was started (19th century) by a Witch named Margaret McDonald."
Not so. The catching away/rapture was taught in the 3rd century. There had already been "raptures" in the OT. That was way before Margaret.
What does Rev 3:10 say to the church? Read it and believe it.
---Elder on 3/8/11


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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE IS A HERESY!!!

It was started (19th century) by a Witch named Margaret McDonald(Google it)passed to John Darby then to John Scoffield who brought it to America.

TRIBULATION IS FOR BELIEVERS! WRATH IS FOR THE WICKED! All believers have gone through tribulation. Why would G-d give "YOU" a pass??? It comes from the word Tribul. A sled use to seperate the Wheat from the Chaff. A testing of faith.

NOW HEAR WHAT JESUS SAID...

MATT 24:29-31.."AFTER the tribulation"
JOHN 17:15 "Do NOT take them out of the world..
JOHN 6:39-40,44,54 "On the LAST day"
JOHN 11:24 "on the LAST day"
JOHN 12:48 "on the LAST day"
DAN 12:1-3

CASE CLOSED!!!
---John on 3/7/11


Elder is correct.
---mima on 3/7/11


I believe the answer is
"To provoke jealousy"
---micha9344 on 3/6/11


Many Jewish people know what the evangelicals teach. At the time of the rapture and the Church of God goes up the Jewish people that understand will be extremely jealous.
---mima on 3/7/11


There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture, if that's what you're talking about.
---Cluny on 3/6/11


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What rapture are you talking about? What do you mean by supercede?
---John.usa on 3/6/11


To provoke jealousy
---micha9344 on 3/6/11


Israel/gentiles are not the church.
The Church is the Born Again believers saved by the Blood of Christ.
All will go together.
---Elder on 3/6/11


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