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Paul Followers Not Saved

People say you get saved the minute you say the "sinner's prayer", or whatever. Yet, St. Paul said in Romans 13:11"
""for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed."" Does this mean that St. Paul's hearers weren't already saved yet?

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 ---Cluny on 3/6/11
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James L, if I redeem an item from a Pawn Shop does it belong to me when I pay for it or not until I get it home?
---Elder on 3/10/11

Hey,drive on Elephantman..your 1/2 way there! Good one.
Pawn Shop/Redeem. To pay a price for something previously held in pocession.
Luke 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Galatians 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Psalm 130:8
he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Psalm 106:10
And he saved them from the hand of him that hated them, and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.
---Trav on 4/6/11


No cluny, we already have a deposit of our inheritance...Paul was saying our salvation...meaning the total redemption of our body's is nearer every day, as we look for the Day of the appearing of Christ...
---kathr4453 on 4/2/11


Rom 13:11"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep:..."
What kind of sleep? Spiritual sleep, that's where the Church is. Unaware of all the things that are taking place in this world that are setting the stage for the coming of that final seven years of human history. Paul says we are in the end times, and if Paul thought we were 2000 years ago, then imagine how close we are now.
---michael_e on 3/27/11


exactely that is why we should not play with our salvation. many say that it is impossible to be with God and in GODS WILL and then to astray and be LOST. LOOK at king SAUL, and much teach he was man's choice they teach unbiblically. God chose Him but God rejected SAUL, because Saul First rejected GOD.(1 Samuel 15) look at another of the kings of Judah (2Chronicles) who as long as the High priest was alive did good, but then strayed away
alsoo the prophets say that a good person when he look at the list of people Paul names that abandoned the Lord. etc... it might be extremely difficult but not impossible.
---andy3996 on 3/12/11


Good points, Nana.
---Cluny on 3/11/11




Christan,
I might have included too many verses to make it evident, but I caught what Elder was getting at.

1Cor 15:51 says we shall not all sleep (die physically), but we will all be changed.

I guess we could say that not all will experience resurrection, per se, as some will experience metamorphosis

Thanks for the mention.

:)
---James_L on 3/11/11


In the book of ACTS, Simon believed.../ but did he finish the race? Do we have to finish the race?
These two, 2Cor.6 and 1Tim.5, Is one who denies the faith spared by a long past sinners prayer?

"For we walk ..."
Better walk proper lest our footsteps kick us in the face in the end.
---Nana on 3/11/11


JamesL, you misunderstood Elder when he said "Many people are going to heaven without dying. So what do you do with those?"

I believe Elder was referring Paul's prophesy in 1 Thes 4:17, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Multitudes of His elect will still be alive when Christ comes on Judgement Day.

But for the unbelievers, Revelation 6:16,17 "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?"
---christan on 3/11/11


Elder,
Christ has given me hope. Not ONLY escaping hell, but A Hope In The Resurrection. We will be raised physically, just like Jesus was. Who will "save" me from this body of death? Jesus Christ. Why did the Apostles get in trouble with the law in Acts. They preached a hope of physical resurrection in Christ.

We also have a promise of an inheritance, based on suffering with Jesus (Rom 8:17). Romans 10-11 calls it salvation. So does Hebrews. So does Matt 10:22 (see 2Tim 2:12) See the beatitudes.

My whole point is that these other great promises of God are called "salvation", so it is a process.

It is not finished with the new birth.
---James_L on 3/10/11


\\Many people are going to heaven without dying. So what do you do with those?\\
---Elder

1Cor 15:51-55
I tell you a mystery, we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"
---James_L on 3/10/11




The term "salvation" may mean the change of heart produced when a person first trusts the Lord. OR it may mean our eventual escape from this present sinful world. Paul must have meant it in the latter sense.
---Donna66 on 3/10/11


"the once saved always saved theory is indeed not biblical" andy

Really? Then maybe you want to tell us what this means in Romans 8:38,39 - "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Sounds like if you're loved by God from eternity, salvation is sealed in Christ and nothing can get in the way of His covenant. You see, when God declared His love for Jacob, his salvation was a guarantee and nothing can ever thwart God's love in saving Jacob.
---christan on 3/10/11


andy3996, the Bible teaches that if you were able to lose your salvation you could never regain it again because you would have to crucify Christ again. So what are you going to do with that?
---Elder on 3/10/11


the once saved always saved theory is indeed not biblical,one might lose his salvation if he tries hard enough. however when you where astray in the world and now you first pray the sinner-prayer before God, you are accepted in God's household. now you need to work your faith dailly. wherever you are still lacking in righteousness you trust Christ to add to your lacking. Again no sinner prayer without repentance. therefore not the form but the heart that prays is concidered by God. it can be as simple as "lord remember me when you come before your throne.
---andy3996 on 3/10/11


People seem to be getting caught up in the physical body, and defining who they are through the flesh. This body is nothing but a "tent", that will pass away. Who we are is not our body, we are spirits that indwell these "vehicle's", AKA the "Temple of God". Because of our salvation through faith we have direct access to the father through our "Temple".
---DanP on 3/10/11


James L, if I redeem an item from a Pawn Shop does it belong to me when I pay for it or not until I get it home?
Many people are going to heaven without dying. So what do you do with those?
I was dead in trespass and sin spiritually. I am resurrected to new life in Christ. I am now dead to sin yet alive to Christ. You need to study the spiritual side of your salvation and not only the physical side.
---Elder on 3/10/11


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Eternal life is a covenant(promise) that God made with His people, and it's only through His Son Jesus Christ. And when He makes a covenant, no one and nothing will stand in His way of that covenant, regardless of all the idle babbling that's going on here.

"And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:28,29
---christan on 3/9/11


\\Matt 10:21-23 is a prediction of the coming persecution in the great tribulation. This is not written to the age of Grace Saints.\\
---Elder on 3/9/11

I'm not sure where you got that idea from, Elder.

Matt 10:
v 1 Jesus summoned His disciples
v 5 These twelve Jesus sent out
v 7 and as you go, preach
v 16 Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves
v 17 but beware of men

v 18 you will be brought before kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles

v 19 when they hand you over
v 22 you will be hated, but he who endures to the end will be saved

v 32 Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven
---James_L on 3/9/11


Elder,

\\Our salvation is Jesus, workmanship. So are you saying His work is not complete?\\
Colossians 1:24 "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake...In Filling Up What Is Lacking In Crist's Afflictions"
Philippians 2:12 "Work Out Your Salvation With Fear And Trembling"


\\I was dead but now I am alive, Eph 2:5. I have been quickened and not by a process that I worked up. You are either Saved completely or you are lost totally.\\

Are you phisically dead? That has to happen before you get the salvation mentioned in Romans 5, RESURRECTION. So our "justification" is fully complete, but our "salvation" is not yet
---James_L on 3/9/11


James L Matt 10:21-23 is a prediction of the coming persecution in the great tribulation. This is not written to the age of Grace Saints. We are Saved by Grace through Faith. Not by works. Eph 2:8-9. Our salvation is Jesus, workmanship. So are you saying His work is not complete?
If someone gets Saved today and dies is their salvation complete enough to go to heaven or not?
And yes, I was dead but now I am alive, Eph 2:5. I have been quickened and not by a process that I worked up. You are either Saved completely or you are lost totally.
Make sure that the parts of the Bible you quote are about the subject you are speaking of and not something else...
---Elder on 3/9/11


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barb....The Fathers will is John 6:40.
---JIM on 3/9/11


I see no indication that Paul considered himself anything other than a means to CONVEY the TRUTH of Salvation. Christ is the focal point of all his letters.
---Donna66 on 3/9/11


\\One of my principal reasons for not believing that baptism equates to salvation is the verses already quoted in this blog,\\

So is it your claim that St. Paul saves?
---Cluny on 3/9/11


Wow. You all quote Paul on salvation. Doesn't anyone care what Jesus had to say about their eternal life?

John 3:3-7. Rev. 3:21. Matt 7:21.

The first step is to find the truth. Until you know the truth and obey the truth, you cannot be sanctified in the truth. John 17:17. The words of Jesus as given to Him by His Father are truth. John 17:8.
---barb on 3/9/11


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cluny--//But St. Paul DID claim to save his followers.//

a fireman saves...
a relief pitcher saves...
a goalie saves...
a fiscally wise man saves...

somehow, reading the verse in context, i do not get the impression that Paul was saying that eternal salvation was through himself.
---aka on 3/8/11


Cluny I do not believe that there is salvation in being baptized. But many churches believe there is salvation in baptism. One of my principal reasons for not believing that baptism equates to salvation is the verses already quoted in this blog,
---mima on 3/8/11


\\If you believe salvation is in baptism then perhaps you could believe that Paul did not save his followers.\\

But St. Paul DID claim to save his followers.

Romans 11:14
If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
---Cluny on 3/8/11


\\We are as much Saved when we accept Christ as we will ever be.\\
---Elder on 3/8/11

Not according to scripture, Elder. First, we don't accept Christ, He accepts us on account of faith. That "salvation" from hell is instant.

But, we are promised in Romans 5 to be saved from this cursed flesh when we are resurrected. Has that already happened to you?

We are promised an inheritance determined by our suffering (Rom 8:17). That's enduring to the end of life (Matt 10:22). Are you dead, Elder?

So no, we are not as saved as we're ever gonna get. It's a process that is not complete yet.
---James_L on 3/8/11


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I think you are all right and wrong. A believer "is" saved at the time of declaration of faith, and is "being" saved through the process of sanctification, and "will be" saved at the day of his coming. Our mortal minds can't comprehend the vastness of our Lord who is outside of time. The time for salvation is NOW.
---DanP on 3/8/11


AMEN MIMA!!!

What is sad is there are so many who reject this TRUTH!!!
---Rob on 3/8/11


If you believe salvation is in baptism then perhaps you could believe that Paul did not save his followers.
First Corinthians 1-15-17,
" 14-I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,

15-Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16-And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
---mima on 3/8/11


\\We are as much Saved when we accept Christ as we will ever be. \\

Elder, this is my point.

If, as you claim, we are totally saved when we "accept Christ"--a formula the Bible NOWHERE uses, btw--how can salvation be nearer than it was at that point, as St. Paul says?
---Cluny on 3/8/11


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What about the "thief on the cross"? He prayed to Jesus for salvation, didn't he? But did he get saved instantly? Well, he got saved whenever Jesus acknowledged him. And God knows the heart of the person who asks Jesus to save him. God knows what the outcome will be, in eternity.

But Jesus guaranteed him salvation, when he asked.

And we are guaranteed, "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ," in Philippians 1:6. So, if we truly trust in Jesus, God is the One who is guaranteed to succeed.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/8/11


So, James_L, how much "saved" is enough to get us "totally saved?"
We are as much Saved when we accept Christ as we will ever be. We grow in Grace for service and fellowship. We are not getting "more" of Christ. He is getting more of us.
---Elder on 3/8/11


Noone has their salvation yet. We have the promise of it and the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit as a down payment.

The Spirit is the "earnest of our inheritance unto the redemption of the purchased possession" (Eph 1:14)
---CraigA on 3/8/11


Paul's teaching came from a purely private revelation, by his own admission in Galatians. It's his word against everyone else's. But he was a good salesman, and people were desperate to believe in the Jewish God without having to become Jews. That's why his teaching caught on so fast.
---John.usa on 3/7/11


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Mima,
those who believe salvation is NOT a process end up taking "saved" verses out of context, and end up having to choose between
"By grace you have been saved, through faith"
"He who endures to the end shall be saved"
"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"

We know which ones you throw in the garbage can, but why?

Do you have a problem with indefinite aspects of salvation? do they make you shiver?
---James_L on 3/7/11


We don't give titles to our own blogs, christan. They are supplied by the moderator/s.
---Cluny on 3/7/11


Cluny those who believe salvation is a process along to that group spoken of in second Timothy 3:7,
" Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" I realize you're trapped in such belief but biblically speaking there is no grounds for believing that salvation is a process.
---mima on 3/7/11


Cluny, you know jolly well that Romans 13:11 does not mean as what the title to your blog suggest. It is in the same tone as 2 Peter 3:10,11 -

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness..."

It's an admonishment to Christians about the Lord's coming.
---christan on 3/7/11


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