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Meaning Of Ash Wednesday

What do the ashes represent that Catholics get today on Ash Wednesday? I was raised Catholic and used to get them but I don't remember why I got them. What do they signify?

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Ignatius, I'm sure we agree on many, but disagree on many others. To me the main one against the Roman Catholic and your church is the icons, and veneration of Mary, saints. The same problem problem that Israel got into. That along is the more serious to to me. For many reasons, the rise of Mary and the saints and decline of Jesus as Lord of all. That is the reason I left. I was not interest in religion but on the Truth. Not what the Church taught, but what God taught through His Word.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/11


Mark V

"When I answer against the traditions of man, I am referring to are those traditions that go against Scripture. There is many traditions that do not. For example lent. To me lent does not. If a church wants to fast, or have one day for lent, so what. What I am against are the doctrines instituted as coming from God that go against God's Word."

At last, we agree on something.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/23/11


Cluny, When I answer against the traditions of man, I am referring to are those traditions that go against Scripture. There is many traditions that do not. For example lent. To me lent does not. If a church wants to fast, or have one day for lent, so what. What I am against are the doctrines instituted as coming from God that go against God's Word. Like, the "Ineffabilis Deus" Claiming the Virgin Mary in the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and Privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful"
---Mark_V. on 4/22/11


//BTW, Donna. While you might have been raised a Roman Catholic, you seem to have been poorly instructed.
---Cluny on 4/20/11//

Cluny, as I just posted to ignatius, I take this as a compliment. I have no trace of Catholicism in me since I became born again and spirit filled in 1983. God led me out of the Catholic church and miraculously led me to the TRUTH of a RELATIONSHIP with him and Catholicism is a RELIGION...a set of rules that are not in the bible. Confessing sins to a Priest is NOT in the bible. Giving up candy or soda for lent is not in the bible. Putting Holy Communion in a pretty gold thing and worshipping that is idolatry. Sorry but it's the truth and I pray that the scales on your eyes fall off before Jesus returns.
---Donna5535 on 4/21/11


Did you all know that the first day of Pesach is preceded by a fast?

Now you know how Lent started. It has NOTHING to do with Tammuz.

BTW, Donna. While you might have been raised a Roman Catholic, you seem to have been poorly instructed.
---Cluny on 4/20/11




jerry, we don't weep for Tammuz.

We weep for our sins.

Do you get the difference?
---Cluny on 4/20/11


\\Cluny, I was raised in the Catholic church and NEVER once, not even ONE time did I ever hear a priest call Lent a fast.\\

Well, all you're doing is showing how lax Lent became in the West.

In the East, ideally there is ONE meal a day, and you MAY eat fruits, vegetables, and shellfish (because they didn't bleed when you stabbed them).

On Annunciation and Palm Sunday fish is permitted. Olive oil and wine is permitted on Saturdays and Sundays.

Up until the 19th century, it was as strict in the West as well.
---Cluny on 4/20/11


\\I guess either you have never read, or you reject what is written in Colossians 2:8\\

You don't actually think this is talking about Lent, do you?

We don't follow the traditions of this world. We follow the traditions that came down from Christ and the Apostles.

Try again.
---Cluny on 4/19/11


Sure, you can find lent, as well as Easter Sunrise Service in the Bible. Here they are:

Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north, and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. [This weeping ritual lasted 40 days.]

Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
---jerry6593 on 4/20/11


//Does the Church have the right to proclaim a fast?
---Cluny on 4/19/11//

Cluny, I was raised in the Catholic church and NEVER once, not even ONE time did I ever hear a priest call Lent a fast. They call it Lent and ask you to give up ONE of your most favorite foods...most gave up candy or soda. What kind of a sacrifice is that? My cousin practices lent and has lived in fornication with 22 different women since 1976. Where is he going when he dies?
---Donna5535 on 4/20/11




Cluny, \\you asked where is the observance of Lent forbidden in scripture?\\

I guess either you have never read, or you reject what is written in Colossians 2:8
---Rob on 4/19/11


\\pagan lent is just that pagan\\

Show me the proof.

\\it is nowhere within Holy Scripture\\

Where is the observance of Lent forbidden in the Scripture?

Does the Church have the right to proclaim a fast?
---Cluny on 4/19/11


Lent is that "period before Easter in Christian calendar: the period of 40 weekdays before Easter observed in some Christian churches as a period of prayer, penance, fasting, and self-denial.
This period, starting on Ash Wednesday in Western churches, commemorates the 40 days that Jesus Christ spent fasting in the wilderness." Encarta dictionary.

While not mentioned in the Bible, neither is the observance of Easter or Christmas - traditions probably established by the Apostles and their immediate successors 2 Thes. 2:15.
---leonia on 4/19/11


Rhonda, don't you just hate it when I show you how the Bible disagrees with you?

Now, I will repeat my question.

Tell me what you actually know about Eastern Orthodoxy, and where it differs from the Bible.
******

pagan lent is just that pagan

it is nowhere within Holy Scripture

when you can SHOW me the verses that DETAIL how when where Christ and Apostles celebrated this abomination then I would be more than happy to entertain your question

sadly you have no Scripture that supports the lent concept other than an OT verse taken out of context

since I do not bow down to a mortal pompous pope who preaches ANOTHER Christ 2Corin 4:11

maybe what you really HATE Cluny is Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 4/19/11


\\You believe that a twisted version of Paul's writings ALWAYS trump Jesus' own words. ROFL!\\

jerry, doesn't it bother you to say things that have no basis in reality or to slander other people.

I never said this.

But please tell me where Jesus said that the Gentiles were bound to the OT kashuroth. Give book, chapter, and verse.
---Cluny on 4/19/11


jerry - the reason you probably identify leej, leonia, cluny, etc with the same person is because they all believe the same truth. Namely that the New Covenant is not a re-hash of the Old, that the Sabbath, dietary laws are not applicable to Gentile converts, that such non-biblical doctrines, the SDA Investigative Judgment & sanctuary doctrine and other things are really not part of the faith once for all delivered to the saints.

I believe that Adventism is really the result of the fanaticism that arose out of the 1830s and like Mormonism, Christian science, etc. proclaims a different Jesus & a different gospel. They serve the Devil's purpose in sowing dissension among Christians.
---leonia on 4/19/11


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Lee, leej, leonia, Mary G, etc (and maybe cluny): "We do not belong to any denominational church but go to one that preaches the Bible in its entirety"

By "we", are you confirming your multiple personalities, or are you referring to others of your denomination (name - not building or organization). As I recall, you had once described yourself as an "Orthodox Presbyterian". Has that changed?

As for teaching "the Bible in its entirety", that is downright comical. You routinely claim that the Old Testament is the expunged Old Covenant unless repeated in the New Testament. You believe that a twisted version of Paul's writings ALWAYS trump Jesus' own words. ROFL!
---jerry6593 on 4/19/11


\\REVELATION 18,4 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, Come out of her,my people lest you share in her sins,and lest you receive her plagues.For her sins have reached heaven, and GOD has remembered her iniquities.\\

RICHARDC, Ignatius and I came out from her a long time ago when we became Orthodox.

All you're doing is storing up fuel for your own punishment when God remembers your iniquities.
---Cluny on 4/18/11


**The real question is why do SDAs hate the Roman Catholic Church so much as to say that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, and the Pope is the Antichrist.

What I really find as offensive is their belief that those that truly love Jesus and are born spiritually of Him (of whom there will be no condemnation -Romans 8:1), will bear the Mark of the Beast because they have communal worship on Sunday, yet they cannot point to a single verse in the NT that commands observance of the OT Sabbath.

Ellen White & company must truly had a deep hatred for Christians.
---leonia on 4/18/11


\\Lee-onia: What denomination are you, and why do you hate Adventists so?
---jerry6593 on 4/18/11\\

The real question is why do SDAs hate the Roman Catholic Church so much as to say that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, and the Pope is the Antichrist.

And also why SDAs hate the United States so much as to say that the USA is the false prophet with its nasty old Sunday blue laws--of which there are not any.
---Cluny on 4/18/11


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**Leonia: What denomination are you, and why do you hate Adventists so?

We do not belong to any denominational church but go to one that preaches the Bible in its entirety.

I do not hate Adventists, only their unbiblical and demonic inspired doctrines.

Your denomination identifies with the Sabbath keeping, law abiding Pharisees who drove Christ to the Cross.
---leej on 4/18/11


Lee-onia: What denomination are you, and why do you hate Adventists so?
---jerry6593 on 4/18/11


Rhonda, don't you just hate it when I show you how the Bible disagrees with you?

Now, I will repeat my question.

Tell me what you actually know about Eastern Orthodoxy, and where it differs from the Bible.

Using anti-Catholic arguments are not acceptable. Neither are statements beginning with, "Well, if you do so-and-so," as these merely mean you know nothing about Orthodoxy.
---Cluny on 4/17/11


The Bible shows Job as saying, "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." (42:6).

Who is right: Rhonda or the Bible?
****

YES nothing like taking ONE verse from the OT (that rcc basically determines WHICH verses mean something) and declare it is to be USED to support their pagan abominations - PER Holy Scripture

and again and again the spin masters are at work deliberately ignoring and missing the obvious - where did Christ or Apostles observe the pagan lent?

I'll help you out - nowhere in Holy Scripture ...and even rcc can't spin that to make it work either
---Rhonda on 4/17/11


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Rhonda says, "ashes cannot do anything in this life or eternal life....

The Bible shows Job as saying, "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." (42:6).

Who is right: Rhonda or the Bible?

And I notice that you did not actually answer my questions, Rhonda.
---Cluny on 4/16/11


Olde Ellen White never even heard of the Eastern Orthodox church, or any of the Apostolic succession churchs in the East. She taught that all the early church was Roman Catholic and all other denominations broke off from that church.

No respective church historian including those that are SDAs can find themselves in agreement with her. She merely promoted the hatred and religious prejudice against Roman Catholics of her times for her own purposes.

But how does one deal with someone as ignorant of both the Bible and church history as we find in the Adventists?
---leonia on 4/16/11


Poor soul, when will she open her eyes to the truth and cling to Christ for her salvation instead of old Ellen White?
****

no clue what an "Ellen White" believes

so sorry to disappoint you in your ignorance

ashes were never used by Christ or Apostles that is TRUTH that even OLD rcc cannot DENY

I FOLLOW Christ in ALL things because ONLY Christ leads me to salvation

ashes cannot do anything in this life or eternal life and neither can an OLD mortal pope

only pagan traditions of lying false ministers TEACH that lie
---Rhonda on 4/16/11


\\ANY religious organization claiming christianity yet practicing pagan rituals established by rcc IS essentially an rcc offshoot

...

whether PROTESTant episcoplian or any other eastern orthodox you are all one serving rcc whether you choose to believe or accept\\

Rhonda, please tell me just WHAT pagan traditions Eastern Orthodoxy accepts. Be specific, please.
---Cluny on 4/16/11


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\\LOL when you stop promoting pagan ideas and beliefs begun by rcc ...like their ashes another pagan tradition of men\\

The imposition of ashes is not an Orthodox practice, Rhonda.

I suggest you look more into what Orthodoxy actually teaches and does before you start making your uninformed statements about it.
---Cluny on 4/16/11


Rhonda girl beleives deep down into her heart that if you have communal worship on the Lord's Day instead of on the OT Sababth that you are really a Roman Catholic.

Of course, if she was not spiritually blinded by the god of this world, she would see Christ in other and that what counts is a new creation, not external observances.

Poor soul, when will she open her eyes to the truth and cling to Christ for her salvation instead of old Ellen White?
---leonia on 4/16/11


Rhonda, when will it get into your head that I'm NOT a Roman Catholic?

*****

LOL when you stop promoting pagan ideas and beliefs begun by rcc ...like their ashes another pagan tradition of men

ANY religious organization claiming christianity yet practicing pagan rituals established by rcc IS essentially an rcc offshoot

remember rcc is looking to gather ANY and ALL back into her fold ...even those who keep and practice just some of her beliefs

whether PROTESTant episcoplian or any other eastern orthodox you are all one serving rcc whether you choose to believe or accept

deny if you choose ...ashes were NEVER observed by Apostles or Christ

True followers of Christ do not practice pagan rituals
---Rhonda on 4/16/11


\\rcc LIE because she wants them to believe she can bring peace and rule the world\\

Rhonda, when will it get into your head that I'm NOT a Roman Catholic?

The notion of a literal millenium is a dispensationalist lie.
---Cluny on 4/15/11


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...there is no such thing as an earthly millennium kingdom
****

rcc LIE because she wants them to believe she can bring peace and rule the world

except who rules this world - Satan 2Corin 4:4 remember? Christ did not take Satans offer!

Otherwise 2Corin 15 and countless Holy Scriptures lie stating Christ RETURNS to destroy and set up The Kingdom of God

minds programmed by a mortal man who created a catechism that states one must SUBMIT their minds to pope CANNOT believe EVERY word of Holy Scripture they already bow down and serve a man Mat 4:4, Psalms 118:8

Did Christ or Apostles perform a pagan ash ritual - No ...ashes represent a pagan ritual having nothing to do with Biblical Christ
---Rhonda on 4/15/11


\\No Ruben, only Jesus Christ when He returns and reigns as King of Kings in the Millennial Kingdom Reign will fill that role. \\

Wrong, Kathy.

For one thing, there is no such thing as an earthly millennium kingdom.

This is nothing more than a kingdom of THIS WORLD, and Jesus said His Kingdom was NOT of this world.

Next, the offering of incense and pure oblation has from the time of earliest Christian commentators been understood to refer to the Eucharist.

To say it doesn't is a modern innovation--a tradition and precept of men.
---Cluny on 4/15/11


The Catholic Church fills that role that Malachi is talking about!
---Ruben on 4/12/11

No Ruben, only Jesus Christ when He returns and reigns as King of Kings in the Millennial Kingdom Reign will fill that role.

Also read Zechariah 12-14 for further insight.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Earthly Kingdom John the Baptist announced, was set aside when Christ was Crucified and risen, and will return in ALL HIS GLORY (He previously left behind) .

---kathr4453 on 4/12/11


Ruben, teh cross reference to Malachi 1:11 IS AS FOLLOWS:


Matthew 8:11

And has nothing to do with the RCC interpretation.


---kathr4453 on 4/11/11

Kathr,

Matthew has nothing to do about Malachi,

"For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles ,and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering:" Malachi gave a prophecy on the Gentiles nations, it has nothing to do about the Kingdom of Heaven. The Catholic Church fills that role that Malachi is talking about!
---Ruben on 4/12/11


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Ruben, teh cross reference to Malachi 1:11 IS AS FOLLOWS:


Matthew 8:11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

And has nothing to do with the RCC interpretation.

---kathr4453 on 4/11/11


\\//God used SOMEBODY to collate it, and that was the Orthodox Church, not yours.
---Cluny on 3/17/11 //

Bunk! The version you use was collated by the Roman Church.
---jerry6593 on 4/4/11\\

As a matter of fact, jerry, we have several books that the Roman Church does not use.

Now, doesn't it bother you to spout off about things, in this case the Orthodox, of which you clearly know nothing?
---Cluny on 4/11/11


**Assemble on the Lords day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist,...

And the consensus of the early church fathers was that the Lord's day was Sunday, not the OT Sabbath.
---leonia on 4/11/11


kathr4453* 8. The mass declared to be a sacrifice of Christ, 1050 A.D.

The Didache


"Assemble on the Lords day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist, but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:2324]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations [Mal. 1:11, 14]" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

In fact read Malachi 1:11
---Ruben on 4/11/11


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The vast majority of the doctrines and beliefs of the Church of Rome have no basis whatsoever in the Bible. Here is a list of some and the dates they were made official by the RCC. All Roman Catholics are forced to accept them without question:
1. The daily mass, 394 A.D.
2. Prayers to the Virgin, Queen of Heaven, 600 A.D.
3. Kissing the Pope's foot began in 709 A.D.
4. Temporal power of the Pope declared in 750 A.D.
5. Holy water, blessed by a priest, 850 A.D.
6. Canonisation of dead saints (Pope John XV), 995 A.D.
7. Ash Wednesday, Lent and Good Friday began in 998 A.D.
8. The mass declared to be a sacrifice of Christ, 1050 A.D.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/11


//God used SOMEBODY to collate it, and that was the Orthodox Church, not yours.
---Cluny on 3/17/11 //

Bunk! The version you use was collated by the Roman Church.
---jerry6593 on 4/4/11


God used SOMEBODY to collate it, and that was the Orthodox Church, not yours.
---Cluny on 3/17/11
SO...

It is the technology of turning Papyrus manuscripts into Codex (which was NOT your church) that makes you Holy. Then I suppose Guttenberg was Holier than Orthos and again those who put it in Cyberspace are the Holiest of Saints.

SCRIPTURAL IGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS!

Perhaps if you actually read the words on that paper you would be enlighten to the truth.

OTHERWISE...

It's best to relegate your intelligence and abilities to being our resident spellchecker.
---John on 3/17/11


\\generally diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Orthodox Pagan Church established during the Bizantine Empire you so admire and fraudulently defend.\\

You don't think the Bible dropped down out of heaven already written, do you?

God used SOMEBODY to collate it, and that was the Orthodox Church, not yours.

And if you can't spell a word, such as Byzantine, it's a good sign you really know nothing about it.
---Cluny on 3/17/11


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The Bible is an Orthodox book, you see.

Therefore, the Bible is to be understood as the Orthodox Church uses it.
---Cluny on 3/16/11

WRONG CLUNY!!!

The Bible is a book written by Jews and inspired by The Jewish G-d (now called Christians. Renamed for Messiah) and is generally diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Orthodox Pagan Church established during the Bizantine Empire you so admire and fraudulently defend.
---John on 3/17/11


Nothing the Orthodox Church does in her dogma or worship is in disobedience to the Scripture, as she decided what should go into it to start with.

The Bible is an Orthodox book, you see.

Therefore, the Bible is to be understood as the Orthodox Church uses it.
---Cluny on 3/16/11


Cluny, your point is well taken 3/15/11. It is also a point I have been trying to make.

Not only the Orthodox, but also the RCC, and Protestant Churches base their religion and traditions on things not found in scripture, and sometimes IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION of what is written in SCRIPTURE. This means these things are NOT OF GOD but are of men.

I also want to say we are living in a highly technological age. There are some good things, along with the bad and ugly.

People have taken some of the good things and are using them for evil.
---Rob on 3/15/11


\\Cluny and Ignatius, I am only sharing the facts.\\

What facts have you actually shared on this thread? I see no facts you've shared here, unless you're using another name.

In any case, I said early on here that the imposition of ashes is not done in the Orthodox or any Eastern Church.

And as I also said, Orthodox never claimed the necessity to base our customs on the Bible. That's a Protestant rule, not ours.
---Cluny on 3/15/11


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CLUNY 3/15/11 - The notion that the church age ended is a tradition that itself is unbibicial?

1 PETER 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of GOD,and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of GOD.

REVELATION 18,4 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, Come out of her,my people lest you share in her sins,and lest you receive her plagues.For her sins have reached heaven, and GOD has remembered her iniquities.

Too much to go though here, put end of church age in web browser - looks like it ended in 1988
---RICHARDC on 3/15/11


Cluny and Ignatius, I am only sharing the facts.

Ignatius, in the past you said we received the NEW TESTAMENT from an Orthodox Council of Men, yet you call it SOLA SCROPTURA and a teaching that nowhere can be found in the Bible. I guess you would say what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16 is a lie.

You both also avoid answering the questions I asked about catechumen, liturgical, and other Orthodox religous practices which can't be found in the Bible.
---Rob on 3/15/11


John wrote:

\\Cluny, by its very definition Antichrist means a False Christ or imitation.

He will mimic almost exactly the symbols, the miracles, the words and healings and the image of Christ Himself.\\

Et reliqua.

John, by your own words, how do we know that YOU are not the one mimicking holy things and mocking Christianity, thus leading simple souls astray to the damnation of your own soul?

What proof, other than your own say-so, that is not otherwise?
---Cluny on 3/15/11


\\PSALMS 69:30 I will praise the name of GOD with a song,And will magniify him with thanksgiiving.\\

You don't actually think this is talking about using hymnals, do you?

\\Why use the computer - Once again you go into the ridiculous - This has do do with Churches and people and the Church following tradition that are not Biblical.

Now a far as my Church, I believe it can be proven bibilcal that the Church age has ended.So I don't go to church.\\

The notion that the "Church age has ended" is a tradition that is itself unbiblical, but it's interesting to see how you can use the Bible to justify what you want to think.

Can you prove according to the Bible when it ended?
---Cluny on 3/15/11


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"Cluny, do you along with the others who are Orthodox have catechumen, liturgical, and other religous practices which are not found in the Bible?
---Rob on 3/14/11"

Of course! This does not mean they are falsehoood.

Come on Rob, let's play fair. You believe in "Sola Scriptura", a teaching that can nowhere to be found in the Bible and to which the Bible itself disagree with.

You also have many other "non-biblical practices" such your very use of a computer.

Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, three fingers are pointed back at you!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/15/11


CLUNY - How about Hymnals

PSALMS 69:30 I will praise the name of GOD with a song,And will magniify him with thanksgiiving.

Why use the computer - Once again you go into the ridiculous - This has do do with Churches and people and the Church following tradition that are not Biblical.

Now a far as my Church, I believe it can be proven bibilcal that the Church age has ended.So I don't go to church.
---RICHARDC on 3/15/11


\\Cluny, do you along with the others who are Orthodox have catechumen, liturgical, and other religous practices which are not found in the Bible?
---Rob on 3/14/11\\

We never claimed we were bound by Sola Scriptura.

But all of our religious practices have their roots in the Bible.
---Cluny on 3/15/11


Cluny, do you along with the others who are Orthodox have catechumen, liturgical, and other religous practices which are not found in the Bible?
---Rob on 3/14/11


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\\( I would not have anything to do with something that has nothing to do with a law of God,)\\

So why are you using a computer?

Do you have invitation hymns and altar calls in your church?

How about hymnals, even.

NONE of these are in the Bible.

So you're not really being truthful.
---Cluny on 3/14/11


MATTHEW 15:9 And in vain they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandment of men. ( I would not have anything to do with something that has nothing to do with a law of God,)
---RICHARDC on 3/13/11


John: 'He will mimic almost exactly the symbols, the miracles, the words and healings and the image of Christ Himself.'

Your argument is fine, ONLY IF........ you can demonstrate it IS a minic, not the TRUTH

If not, you are violating the ninth commandment 'you shall not bear falst witness against your neighbour'

Think about that
---Peter on 3/12/11


Hi, Donna . . . the ashes on the forehead can be understood to be a reminder that we are mortal. We have come from ashes and to ashes we shall return. So, it can be a reminder for me to be humble and not to boast what I can do in this life and that I will live for a long time.

But, of course, I can be reminded of this, without having ashes on my forehead. I might have qualms about going around showing off that I am religious, by having a mark on my forehead. Also, I could be identified with a religion that I don't believe in.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/11/11


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\\I agree with the Eloy.
---mima on 3/10/11


NonChristian religion, and dead works.
---Eloy on 3/10/11\\

Just like Eloy's signs he claims are dead works, or mima's claim of .850 batting average in leading people in the ritual redemption of the "sinner's prayer" is a dead work.
---Cluny on 3/11/11


\\Now this Pagan act (a black Indistinguishable mark on the forehead) which like all other Pagan decreeds of Emperor Contantine is not scriptural IS IT???\\

In other words, you cannot answer my question about how the Cross (which you call a "black indistinguishable mark") is the mark of the beast, nor how it affect your ability to buy or sell, which is what the REAL mark of the beast does, according to the Bible.

The custom of the imposition of ashes arose CENTURIES after Constantine. He had nothing to do with it.

As I said, it's not done in the Christian East.

And you've not answered my questions about how PASCHA is pagan.
---Cluny on 3/11/11


John, please explain how the Cross of Christ on one's forehead is the mark of the beast.
Bet you can't!
---Cluny on 3/11/11

Cluny, by its very definition Antichrist means a False Christ or imitation.

He will mimic almost exactly the symbols, the miracles, the words and healings and the image of Christ Himself.
So much so (as scripture said) that the very Elect will be fooled if it were not for the intercession of the Holy Spirit.

Now this Pagan act (a black Indistinguishable mark on the forehead) which like all other Pagan decreeds of Emperor Contantine is not scriptural IS IT???

See my blog in 'Worshipping The Sun Goddess" to learn more about Easter.
---John on 3/11/11


\\The Mark of The Beast on your forehead!\\

John, please explain how the Cross of Christ on one's forehead is the mark of the beast.

Furthermore, please explain how it facilitates one's buying and selling, or lack of it prevents such commerce.

Bet you can't!
---Cluny on 3/11/11


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The Mark of The Beast on your forehead!
---John on 3/10/11


The word symbol, by definition, is something that has a meaning to somebody. It may be "meaningless" to some people. To say so, is to express a personal opinion.
---Donna66 on 3/10/11


\\ I did NOT say it's meaningless, I simply ASKED a question: "Is it because?" I formed it as a question, not a statement and yet you attack my response. Why? WHO are you REALLY Cluny? That was MEAN!!!!\\

Let's see. Let me paraphrase what you said to see if I understood you properly.

You asked if an act of devotion, meaningful to many western Christians, were a "truly meaningless symbol", which means you're assuming that it is indeed meaninglss, and then accuse me of being mean.

Do I have that right?
---Cluny on 3/10/11


Donna ... you post did read as if you were judging it to be a meaningless symbol.

But I can see how you did not intend it that way.

Since everyone else was attcking the practice, I expect Cluny lumped you in with them, and took the words as expressing your judgment
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/10/11


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---Cluny on 3/10/11
\\ Is it because it's truly a meaningless symbol?\\

Who are you to decide that it's truly meaningless?

Cluny, what is wrong with you? I did NOT say it's meaningless, I simply ASKED a question: "Is it because?" I formed it as a question, not a statement and yet you attack my response. Why? WHO are you REALLY Cluny? That was MEAN!!!!
---Donna5535 on 3/10/11


\\ I know why Jesus doesn't have to put ashes on his forehead, but why didn't he make his disciples do it?\\

Jesus didn't use computers, or wave flags or hold revivals, either--things dear to the heart of the Bible-believing born again Christian.

\\ Is it because it's truly a meaningless symbol?\\

Who are you to decide that it's truly meaningless?

No symbol is meaningless to those who find meaning in it.
---Cluny on 3/10/11


But if Jesus and His Apostles didn't put ashes on them, why does man do it today? I know why Jesus doesn't have to put ashes on his forehead, but why didn't he make his disciples do it? Is it because it's truly a meaningless symbol?
---Donna5535 on 3/10/11


I agree with the Eloy.
---mima on 3/10/11


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NonChristian religion, and dead works.
---Eloy on 3/10/11


The ashes were originally imposed on the public penitents who were to be reconciled with the Church towards the end of Lent.

Some brave charitable souls chose to take this public humiliation upon themselves to encourage them, and the custom spread.

It's not just Roman Catholics who observe it. Episcopalians and Lutherans and some Methodists do to.

The Orthodox do not have this custom, nor do the other Apostolic Eastern Churches of God.
---Cluny on 3/9/11


The OT has references on ashes as a sign of mourning (Esther 4:1-3, Job 42:6, Jeremiah 6:26) Ashes remind us of your helplessness and our dependence on God. They are a symbol of sinfulness and our commitment to spiritual renewal!
---Ruben on 3/9/11


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