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Explain Isaiah 8:20

Do you think this verse of Scripture speaks to the need of staying with "Sola Scriptura". Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

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Psalm 110:1 (also quoted by Jesus in Matthew 22:44 and Mark 12:36):
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

There are two different Lords here - one speaking, one being spoken to, one sitting on the right hand of the other. If they are the same, God would be beside himself!
---StrongAxe on 4/25/11


Mary but said she was blessed amoung women.Another quote, "Hail Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life,our sweetness, and our hope! To you do we cry, poor banished children of Eve!To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears". Whoa, were is that in scripture!
---willa5568 on 4/21/11


Where does the Bible provide a list of the canonical books of the NT?

Where does the Bible explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word "Trinity"?
---Ruben on 4/25/11


\\It does not say Mother of God, but the mother of my Lord\\

Something else that occurred to me today.

Do not the words of St. Elizabeth anticipate the confession of St. Thomas when he saw the Risen Christ: "My Lord and my God"?
---Cluny on 4/24/11


Ignatius

Glad you are here. Let us get back to the original topic. The verse points to Sola Scriptura meaning that the Bible is the final authority showing wether a tradition is good or bad based on it's agreement with scripture.

The word Scripture is used 32 times in the KJV. Starting in Dan. 10:21

Jhn 10:35 ... and the scripture cannot be broken,
Whereas some teach scripture can be broken by traditions.
Read:
Gal 4:30 1 Tim5:18 2Peter 1:20

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Look them up.
---Samuel on 4/24/11


Another pharase that is used to refer to scripture is (Word of GOD)

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Go to any online concordance and type word of GOD you get 44 exact matches and 14 inexact matches in the New Testament alone.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
---Samuel on 4/24/11




Cluny and Ingnatius,

Please read Psalm 110, the very first say "the LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies my footstool" and then read Matthew 22:42-46. Notice he asks, "what do you think about the Christ, who's son is he?". In verse 44 he quotes Psalms 110:1. LORD is, as you said YHWH, but the second Lord is Lord, which in the Hebrew is "adown". This word is very different than the word translated LORD (YHWH) and is also used to refer to the Kings of Isreal (read the verses I referenced. So to say Lord means means God as in, Mary the Mother of God, is changing what is being said.
---willa5568 on 4/24/11


All that passage is saying in Isaiah 8:20 is that the law and testimony came through the prophecies of God spokesman, Isaiah. This is a dismal picture of those who were frustrated, desperate and angry even to the point of cursing God, all because they refused to accept the truthfulness of what Isaiah had predicted regarding the nations future hardships. People in that day were using spiritualists to communicate with the dead as King Saul did, which was strictly forbidden (Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10-11) so Isaiah was called by God to prophesy.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11


Ignatius,

Here are some verses written after the Babylonian captivity that do use YHWH.

Haggai 1:12, 1:14, 2:4, 2:23

Zechariah 1:1, 4:6, 4:9, 4:10

Nehemiah 1:5, 5:13, 8:1

Considering the prophets used Gods proper name, there is no doubt they spoke it.
---willa5568 on 4/25/11


\\It does not say Mother of God, but the mother of my Lord\\

Who is the Lord but God?
---Cluny on 4/23/11


"Cluny,

It does not say Mother of God, but the mother of my Lord" (willa5568)

And who is Lord, but God alone? Are you saying that Jesus Christ was not God-Incarnated?

The psalmists refer to God as "my God" and "my Lord"-->Psalm 35(34):23.

Please keep in mind that after the Babylonian captivity, Jews commonly referred to God as Lord, especially since His name, YHWH, could not be uttered. Most modern English translations of the Old Testament render the Tetragrammaton, YHWH, as LORD.

Believe what you want. I will choose to obey the word of God and call Mary, the Theotokos.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/23/11




Cluny,

It does not say Mother of God, but the mother of my Lord. 2Kings 6:12, 6:26, 8:5, 1Chronicles 21:3. Jesus was to sit on the throne of David as king. Also remember the Magi, they came and said "where is he who has been born king of the Jews... for we have come to worship him". the word worship means to fall face down in adoration, a physical act of lowering oneself in humble submission with an attitude of utmost adoration or respect. Is this not how you address a king?
---willa5568 on 4/23/11


\\\Many Catholics do worship idols such as the "Holy mother of God". No where in scripture does it imply such a thing.\\

Yes, it does. Cluny
\\

I now see your point.

MINE, howevr, is that the Bible DOES say that Mary is Mother of God in Luke 1:43.

Mother of God/Theotokos is really about who JESUS is, as I keep on saying.
---Cluny on 4/22/11


\\Do you realize you just stated that the RCC teaches it is okay to worship idols and Mary?\\

No, they don't, And neither does Orthodoxy. Cluny

\Many Catholics do worship idols such as the "Holy mother of God". No where in scripture does it imply such a thing.\\

Yes, it does. Cluny

I did not state they did. You did. The way you answered the statment was in agreement. I am sure that is not what you meant. I am guessing you meant to say yes to only part of the statement. But unless you qualify your statement you just agreed with it.

I was just pointing out your mistake. Do you see your staments contridict each other?
---Samuel on 4/22/11


Samuel,

Lord is translated as God, Lord, master and sir. In verse 1:32 "and the LORD GOD will give him the throne of his father David". Did the Lord give himself the throne of David?
---willa5568 on 4/22/11


\\Do you realize you just stated that the RCC teaches it is okay to worship idols and Mary?\\

No, they don't, And neither does Orthodoxy.

There is a distinction in Greek--one that Jesus made Himself, according to the Greek gospels--between LATREIA owed to God alone and DOULEIA or honor to whom honor is due.

And you've not yet explained your untruth claiming the Roman Catholic Church teaches that relics can get people out of purgatory.
---Cluny on 4/22/11


\Many Catholics do worship idols such as the "Holy mother of God". No where in scripture does it imply such a thing.\\

Yes, it does.

Luke 1:43 says that, filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth called the Virgin Mary bearing the unborn God Incarnate in her womb, "the Mother of My Lord."

Who else is the Lord but God?

In effect, she was calling her "Mother of YHVH."
---Cluny

Do you realize you just stated that the RCC teaches it is okay to worship idols and Mary?

Only GOD can be worshipped. Never idols or people.
---Samuel on 4/22/11


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\\Please answer with a simple yes or no.
---Cluny on 4/21/11
You will just have to go to see it yourself. Even If i told you you would never believe it. Ifyou ask again about it i will give the same answer: you have to go to see foryourself\\

You took a lot of words to say that you're not going to answer my question.
---Cluny on 4/22/11


\\Yes it says that but if you continue it says she is blessed for believing there would be a fulfillment of what God said,\\

I'm not denying that.

But YOU are denying the Scriptural teaching that calls Mary Mother of God or Theotokos.

I have no intention to discuss Mariology further, as it has to do ultimately with who JESUS is, and so many people on these blogs don't really understand Christology.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


Is it your claim, francis, that someone from West Africa knows more about Catholicism than the Pope?

Please answer with a simple yes or no.
---Cluny on 4/21/11
You will just have to go to see it yourself. Even If i told you you would never believe it. Ifyou ask again about it i will give the same answer: you have to go to see foryourself
---francis on 4/22/11


\\If you really want to know what it measn to be a catholic, travel to africa, especialy west africa\\

Is it your claim, francis, that someone from West Africa knows more about Catholicism than the Pope?

Please answer with a simple yes or no.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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Cluny,

Yes it says that but if you continue it says she is blessed for believing there would be a fulfillment of what God said, he would sit on the throne of David, not as God but Lord. Also I would like to give a quote from the Catholic book of prayer, "Queen concieved without original sin, Holy mother of God, intercede for us". Elizabeth did not worship Mary but said she was blessed amoung women.Another quote, "Hail Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life,our sweetness, and our hope! To you do we cry, poor banished children of Eve!To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears". Whoa, were is that in scripture!
---willa5568 on 4/21/11


---Cluny on 4/21/11

I grew up before my teens years as a catholic. I have had the pleasure or displeasure of black pudding.
I have been to the shrines with the various saints, while people pitition them for help.

If you really want to know what it measn to be a catholic, travel to africa, especialy west africa
---francis on 4/21/11


I wanted to make sure so were not saying we are only allowed to eat the clean animals list by God in the OT.
---willa5568 on 4/21/11
That is exactly when I am saying. 1 Timothy 4:5 For it is SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD and prayer.

the only animals SANCTIFIED by the word of God which the OT is, are clean animals. There is not a list of animals sanctified by the word of God in the NT.
---francis on 4/21/11


\\Many Catholics do worship idols such as the "Holy mother of God". No where in scripture does it imply such a thing.\\

Yes, it does.

Luke 1:43 says that, filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth called the Virgin Mary bearing the unborn God Incarnate in her womb, "the Mother of My Lord."

Who else is the Lord but God?

In effect, she was calling her "Mother of YHVH."
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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Francis,

I agree, I wanted to make sure so were not saying we are only allowed to eat the clean animals list by God in the OT.

Many Catholics do worship idols such as the "Holy mother of God". No where in scripture does it imply such a thing. They even go as far as making her equal with God in some cases. It has changed much of the years but many of its practices are still pagan and mystical (for example transubstantiation).
---willa5568 on 4/21/11


Mark V

You are correct works do not save anyone. Which is why Paul points out that Abraham was saved by Grace through faith. The Old Covenant had the basics of the law on stone. The New in our hearts. Being saved by grace is not a license to sin. The entire Bible is for Christians if rightly understood. 2 Tim. 3

Romans 7 speak of the purpose of the law. Not to be saved by it but to live by Grace not under sin.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

So Mark you are correct we are free from a hostile relationship with the law. To do what is right because of JESUS in us. Those moral laws in the OT. Sill tells us what is wrong.
---Samuel on 4/21/11


Mima, read Cluny, Ignatius and Trey and do likewise.

Albeit Trey's last sentence of too many liberals is kind of silly because the opposite is equally fleshly and evil. Politics and ideology are Satan's lair.

The question is not answered with ideology but with discernment.

Again, the aforementioned brethren are spot on.
---larry on 4/21/11


\\8/10 Is for Catholic, since thay also make graven Images and pitition them
---Francis on 4/20/11\\

Wrong again, as in everything else you say, francis.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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Francis, you are pulling passages out of the Old Testament to prove you point on righteous works to salvation. Their Covenant of works did not save anyone. Move forward to Christ. He is risen. Leave the old works behind. We have, and I invite you to do the same.

"Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another- to Him whom was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God" Rom. 7:1-4.

In the analogy (v. 2,3) of a widow free to remarry, the believer has been freed from his hostile relationship to a law that condemned him, and can, therefore, be remarried this time to Christ (2 Cor. 11:5, Eph. 5:24-27).
---Mark_V. on 4/21/11


May I ask how we have left answering the question?
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


I noticed something about dietary laws and sabbath, and it sounded as if you said we are commanded to keep these as well. Is this right?
---willa5568 on 4/20/11
Right

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1 Timothy 4:5 For it is SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD and prayer.
Ask any one who can read to find a list of animals which god has sanctified for food, they will only be able to list clean animals.
SO whatever we choose to eat must be sanctified by the word of God, then we pray a blessing over it

8/10 Is for Catholic, since thay also make graven Images and pitition them
---Francis on 4/20/11


The things that some people are talking about, being christians and not having to obey the Law because they are free, is actually an old arguement refuted by God:

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be, and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
---francis on 4/20/11


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Francis,

I got 8/10 from a post of yours on 4/18. Again I do not disagree with you that we should, if we love God and our neighbor, strife to keep Gods law. That it not what I was referring to. I noticed something about dietary laws and sabbath, and it sounded as if you said we are commanded to keep these as well. Is this right?
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


---willa5568 on 4/20/11
I am not sure how you came up with 8/10. But that is 100% true.

James says: James 2:11 For HE THAT SAID, Do not commit adultery, SAID ALSO, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

You could substiture any of these
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6.
7.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet
for adultery and KILL/ MURDER, and it would be 100% biblical and doctrinal.
---francis on 4/20/11


I do not disagree with what you say about the Law Paul speaks of and what James is referring to. They both taught as Christians we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But it sounded to me you believe keeping the Sabbath, dietary Laws, and other things that you did not mention would only, if not done, be keeping 8/10 of the Law. Do I understand you correctly?
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


I have seen no one here defend placing tradition as equal, superior and as part of scripture.

Where are those who argue Sola Scriptora is wrong and a false doctrine. Did they just decide not to come and counter?

Ellen G. White wrote it does no good to make sharp and cutting remarks against others. We should be loving like our Saviour. She also wrote of the Love and Christin fellowship that she had with non SDA.
---Samuel on 4/20/11


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WHOLE LAW: Pauls writing.
Paul also speaks of the " whole law" but unlike James he discourages christians from keeping the whol law.

Galatians 5:3 For every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace.

His example of Law is " circumcision." The whole law here does not refer to the ten commandments, but the whol " Law of Moses." It is in the Law of Moses that we find circumcision 8th day.

We can tell that paul and James are spekaing about two different laws: James: keep the whole law or you are in sin. Paul: if you keep the whole law you are fallen from grace
---francis on 4/20/11


---willa5568 on 4/19/11

THE WHOLE LAW: there are two mentions of " whole law" in the Bible, one says keep the whole law, and the other discourages us from keeping the whole law. In each case the CONTEXT is different. IN james whole law means all ten commandments: His exampls are adultery and murder. In another post i may talk about Paul. But james says writes:
James 2:10 James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.
And by this we know he means ten commandments, because God said not to kill and also not to commit adultery, infact God spoke the whole ten commandments, so if we " offend" or break one of the commandments in the law, we are guilty of breking the whole law.
---francis on 4/20/11


Samuel, thank you for your comments. I have never seen you or Warwick ever using self-righteous attitudes. Francis seems to think we start all this arguments, but I believe everyone outside of the SDA's don't mind what they do. I know I don't. If they want to meet on Saturday, they should go for it. If Sunday the same. But when they turn around and say, you are not doing what God told you to do, and what god do you worship, as francis said once, as if they had the right God, and able to keep all of the law without sinning, and we have the wrong God, then people answer with what they know from Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/11


Francis,

I think reading Acts 15:4-29 will help you better understand what the early church leaders in Jerusalem felt necessary for Gentiles to do. I don't feel it is legalistic to attempt to keep the whole law (though I wonder exactly what you consider the whole law), nor do I think it proper to make those lesser who do not keep what you say the Bible commands us to do. Paul spoke about weaker and stronger Christians in understanding the liberty we have in Christ. Also in the scriptures I have given to read above notice it says they can go to the Synagogues to learn of Moses if they so wish.
---willa5568 on 4/19/11


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Exd 21:7 And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.-NKJV
Exd 21:7 If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.-NASB
Exd 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.-RSV
---micha9344 on 4/19/11


Most of these blogs about the Law, about Gods dietary laws, and about the Sabbath are started by Non-SDAs. When SDAs respond, the vast majority of pur post are simple quotation from scripture with explainations. For that we are called legalist by those who keep 8/10 or the same law, we are called judgmental, we are called cultist.
If you christian life is not living up to what the bible says, change it, but do not call me judgemental.
---francis on 4/18/11


You have to start at verse 1. Isiah is referring to the prophecy he has given, it is the word, and the testimony is Isiah giving what God has said to speak. For those who doubt there are two witness' Uriah and Zechariah.
---willa5568 on 4/18/11


Dear Mark V

I wish I could say that we do not have self righteous judgemental people in the Seventh day Adventist church. I am sorry to say I cannot. I have had to deal with many who create trouble inside our church by pointing fingers at others. A number of Pastors and I have worked to fight this spirt that causes so many problems. Others outside the church often judge us also.

The Sabbath is supposed to be a delight. A time spent with our LORD and Saviour resting in His Grace. When my children were little we spent many an afternoon playing bible board games and watching Christian videos together.
---Samuel on 4/18/11


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Samuel, I know you always answer with a good attitude. What I see from those from the SDA's is a legalistic view of others concerning salvation. They are righteous and others are not. One day I went to a birthday party, I was told by my sister-in-law, that a sister wanted to talk to me about the Bible. I was outside seating on a table with five others. When she showed up, she sneaked behind me to see what I was drinking, when she saw I did not have a beer in my hand, she told me, she was glad I was not drinking. That is the attitude these people use. They are righteous and want to judge others on what they do. Self-righteous people.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


Samuel 2: It seems to me that been saved by the works of Christ on the cross is not sufficient. They are not worried about others doing the Sabbath, that is not enough, they have to do it on Saturday. If they insist on being slavishly bound to Old Testament laws they should also be forewarned that failing to keep the letter of the law will be hazardous to their health, since anyone who does any works on the Sabbath must be put to death" Exo. 35:2. They refuse to see that the Sabbath change through Israel's history.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


You are correct Mark we need JESUS because He is the only one who can save us. Christianity put out a article many years ago which I still remeber. It was about how we are saved by the works of JESUS.

Ellen G. White stated that all our righteouness comes from JESUS alone. We have none to offer. Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
---Samuel on 4/17/11


Francis, the word "slave" in Scripture has many meanings. You have to point to a particular verse or context to learn what that meaning is before answering. So when you ask Cluny, "show me the word slave" in the Bible you sounded like you did not know the word was in Scripture. Cluny is correct. Explain first what you want to say, do not leave it open as Jerry does to prove his point on the law. We are no longer slaves to the law, we have been set free. We admit, we could not keep the whole law, the reason we need Jesus, because He kept all the law without sinning for our behalf.
---Mark_V. on 4/17/11


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francis, I know the Bible in several languages--better than you, and even better than you think I do.
---Cluny on 4/17/11


---Mark_V. on 4/16/11
Are you trying to say the word "slave" is nowhere in the English Bible, francis?
---Cluny on 4/16/11

Of course not

I just wanted you to read it and consider it, maybe give some thought before you even ask such a question. Which lately seem to be absent from your posts

I think the word you looking for where one may " sell the child" is servanhood, not the type of slavery you are thinking about

Exodus 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
---francis on 4/17/11


Samuel, you gave a great answer, it should clear things up with francis. Man has always sinned, but God's Word is Truth for all time. I have visions and dreams, I dream about Scriptures all the time, that does not make me a prophet, or that my dreams are from God. They come from my own head. If someone speaks of the Word of God it is because it come from the Word of God. Otherwise it is their words and no way of proofing it came from God.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/11


Francis, I cannot believe you asked that question to Cluny. It must be a trick question to get a particular answer from him. Because,
There is over thirty passages with the word "slave." Even slaves to God, Romans 6:22.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/11


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\\show me the word SLAVE in the BIBLE?
---Francis on 4/16/11\\

Jeremiah 2:14 and Revelation 18:13 are two places the KJV uses the word "slave".

It's used 65 times in the KNJV.

189 times in the New American Standard Bible.

181 times in the NIV.

Are you trying to say the word "slave" is nowhere in the English Bible, francis?

Wrong again.

(BTW--doesn't it bother you to say things that have no basis in reality when talking about the Bible?)
---Cluny on 4/16/11


---Cluny on 4/16/11
show me the word SLAVE in the BIBLE?
---Francis on 4/16/11


\\If you understood the bible as well as you say, then you would know that anyone who works for someone else is his slave.\\

Obviously, francis, you don't know the definition of "slave".

This and your odd comments about the Bible lead me to ask you this: Is English your first language?
---Cluny on 4/16/11


Does this mean that the SDA allows its members to sell their daughters into slavery?
---Cluny on 4/16/11
CLUNY CLUNY CLUNY lol.
If you understood the bible as well as you say, then you would know that anyone who works for someone else is his slave.

If you do not own your own, then you are a slave to another, subject to thier owrks orers, work standards, and work wages.

People who work for other cannot take vacation when they want, they have to submit a request, and IF the boss/ master can occomodate them, then they get a day off.
---francis on 4/16/11


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\\YES! Any teaching that is contrary to the Old Testament (The Law and the Prophets) is false, and any teacher that speaks contrary to the truth revealed in the OT is a false teacher (there is no truth in them).
---jerry6593 on 3/27/11\\

Does this mean that the SDA allows its members to sell their daughters into slavery?

And are rebellious pre-teen boys stoned by the SDA congregation, as the Bible commands?
---Cluny on 4/16/11


---Mark_V. on 4/16/11
2 things: first, there are MANY prophets who never had a book printed in their name. Prophets like Debrah, Muriam their word from God to the people was just as valuable as what was already writen

2: God promises to pour out his spirit on all flesh your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.Joel 2:28 Acts 2:17

Which means that at a later date there wil be people speaking on Gods behalf: having dreams and visions, which have No books in the bible.

It is the books of the bible which we call scripture, and sola scriptura means books of the bible ONLY.
What we should says is WORD OF GOD only.
---francis on 4/16/11


I am a Seventh day Adventist and I believe and teach Sola Scriptora. That Scripture is the final authority in all matters.

Traditions and prophets or prophetesses must all be tested by Scripture. If they do not follow the Bible then they are false.

When the Apostes wanted to settle a discussion they appealed to Scripture.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Trust the Bible above the words of any person.
---Samuel on 4/16/11


Francis, you said:

"There is no such thing as " Sola Scriptura" in the bible. If there was, then it would negate the works of later prophets."

Of course it would. "Scripture interprets Scripture" would sure put a hole on all those who claim to be prophets after Scripture closed. That would take care of Charles Russell, Ellen White, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, Jim Jones, David Korash, and so many more false prophets. For their words do not line up with Scripture. Sola Scriptura is but one hermeneutics method in the science and art of biblical interpretation. One or many passage in Scripture confirming another in Scripture, pertaining to the same topic.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/11


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Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalms 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Revelation 12:17 keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,
---Francis on 4/16/11


micha9344 on 4/15/11

You do know that we are talking about THE BOOKS of the OT and the BOOKS of the NT right?
---francis on 4/16/11


'We often speak of OT and NT, but those are man made division, not divinely inspired'-Francis on 4/9/11
Hmm, and all this time I thought that Christ was the division between the prophesy (OT) and the fulfilment (NT) and not man made but God inspired and directed...
I guess you got me there Francis...
---micha9344 on 4/15/11


The word of God is made up of two things.law and to the testimony. We often speak of OT and NT, but those are man made division, not divinely inspired. The testimonies are sometimes called the prophets, and the law sometimes called Moses.

The Law tells us what God expects from us, how that we should love God, and love ourselves, and also our neighbour as ourselves.

The testimonies tells us what God had done, is doing, and will do for our salvation.

Because of the testimonoes of God, we have psalms of praise.

Many claim to teach the word of God, but the bible just breaks it down:
Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
---Francis on 4/9/11


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This verse talks about the importance of consulting God (I don't think it is a reference to Scripture alone, but also men of God recognized by their holy conduct)as opposed to a spiritist or medium. If we don't care to see what God (whose heart is most clearly revealed in Scripture) has to say, we are doomed for certain.
---hop on 4/8/11


YES! Any teaching that is contrary to the Old Testament (The Law and the Prophets) is false, ...
---jerry6593 on 3/27/11

No light but, some groping/searching for it.

I see Saul who thought he was GOD's right arm...blinded....until he wasn't.
It isn't for me to give light either. I can point...guide,prod,provoke a search sometimes. GOD/Christ has to turn the light on...open the door.
John 1:8
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
---Trav on 3/28/11


YES! Any teaching that is contrary to the Old Testament (The Law and the Prophets) is false, and any teacher that speaks contrary to the truth revealed in the OT is a false teacher (there is no truth in them).
---jerry6593 on 3/27/11


Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
-----Blog Question.

Do prophets words testimony (hundreds available)Prophets/Apostles/Christ declare the same thing as "sparkler doctrines", that mr/ms opinion declared? For witness?

Isaiah 49:6.... I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isaiah 50:11
Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire,in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow.
---Trav on 3/27/11


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God is exhorting his people to stay with his word and do not turn to other inferior sources. lit.Hb: "...and the extending of his wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel. Take counsel together and it will come to nothing, speak the word and it will not stand, for God With Us. And when they will say to you, Seek to them that have familiar spirits, and to wizards that peep and that mutter: should not a people seek up to their God? for the sake of the living, not the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, because they have no light in them." Is.8:8,10,19,20.
---Eloy on 3/26/11


There is no such thing as " Sola Scriptura" in the bible. If there was, then it would negate the works of later prophets.

The bible is NOT the entirety of the word of God, there are MANY prophets who do not have a book in the bible, they also brought the word of God:

This Text simply identifies Gods true church: The teach the LAW and the TESTIMONY
---FRANCIS on 3/25/11


Mima,
Here are a few others:
2Tim3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tim3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Prov30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

2Pe1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We must respect the scriptures for what they are, the inspired words of God.

Too many liberals in the world today!
---trey on 3/22/11


Mima,

If Sola Scriptura is taught in that verse, one must reject all the books that came AFTER Isaiah. Do you?

1) The very phrase you use "Sola Scriptura" is NOT in the Bible.

2) You believe in the Sinner's Prayer (a work), but that is not the Bible. In fact, the very phrase is non-biblical.

3) What do you do with the Scriptures that:

A) Shows Christ and the Holy Apostles alluded/quoted extra biblical traditions (for example, Saint Jude quoted from two non-canonical books, and Saint Paul alluded to a accepted oral Jewish tradition in 2 Timothy 2:8)?

B) Have Saint Paul telling the Early Christians to follow both what was written AND what was orally passed on (2 These 2:15)?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/16/11


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mima, you're going to have a very difficult time proving any of these things by Sola Scriptura.

1. accept Christ.
2. personal Savior.
3. sinner's prayer.
4. why you are not a member of a local congregation.
---Cluny on 3/16/11


Well, Mima . . . we need the Scriptures the way God's light shows them to us. Light can show more than any words can tell.

There are some "Sola Scriptura" people who have formed only doctrine and practices, which they say are strictly by the Bible. Yet they have not gotten the grace of how God's love effects us to become loving the way Jesus is. We need how Jesus the Word in us has us living His meaning.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/15/11


No.

If you take it literally, you will have to exclude from the Bible everything written after Isaiah, which means, of course, the entire New Testament.

And you have to consider the verse before it about going to wizards that peep and mutter.

Besides, you frequently don't speak according to the Bible, yourself, as we have seen, mima.

Would you like to try again?
---Cluny on 3/15/11


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