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Is Islam Beast Of Revelation

There are some scholars that tie the ancient religion of the Babylonians to that of present day Islam. They are still awaiting their messiah. The Bible makes a lot of references to The Assyrian in prophecy. Do you think Islam this is the beast " that was, and is not, and yet is" (Revelation 17:8)?

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 ---Jasheradan on 3/15/11
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The "BEAST" is Islam... the "ANTICHRIST" is the next and last Pope... Pope Peter II, the "FALSE PROPHET" (the Little Horn) is the 12th Imam (the voice and personification of FALSE PROPHET Mohammed).
---Lutherist on 3/31/11


Islam, the RCC and many others are a system of worship (false or otherwise). They may all be used by the Beast. The Bible teaches that the Beast, Anti-Christ and the False prophet are persons/living beings.
Satan uses "systems" to accomplish his purpose.
The RCC, Islam, Lutheran or Baptist are not the Beast of Revelation. They may very well/will be used in the Great Tribulation for false worship of the Anti-Christ.
The above personalities, the Beast, False Prophet and Anti-Christ/Satan, have not been revealed yet. Anyone who says they have is in error.
---Elder on 3/31/11


Lutherist, The problem is, we have so much more light today than those reformers did. Many being anti-Semitic to begin with, never saw God's promise of bringing Israel back to the land He gave them..they simply did not believe Isaiah 14. Many lived by sight and not faith and persecuted the Jews. A horrible shame in the history of Christianity..yes even Luther

TODAY as we see and live this prophecy come to pass in our own lives are without excuse, who still look to the minimal light God gave them.

Yes, we know more today than they did!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11


For those who still care about the "Topic Question", and not just their own personal opinion on whatever... It was clearly the universal belief among ALL of the Reformers (Martin Luther, Calvin and all of the rest) that the the "BEAST" was ISLAM and the "ANTICHRIST" was the Roman Pope...

Do you really have the arrogance to believe that YOU are more intellegent and biblically knowledgable that the leaders of the Protestant Reformation?
---Lutherist on 3/31/11


that is why the god of this world has his wordly scholars to cause confusion chaos and to deliberately twist Holy Word creating lies in the name of scholastic wisdom

Holy Word is 1/3 prophecy of which MOST has not occurred YET ...The beast WAS the Holy Roman empire, and the beast IS NOT the Holy Roman empire (today) and yet the beast YET IS the Holy Roman empire to be resurrected with a united europe led by the sovereign state of the vatican (the little horn) Rev 13,17 & Dan 2,7 describes the system the beast represents

the god of this world 2Corin 4:4 RULES through the governments and religious systems ...Christ will destroy the governments & religious systems of the world when HE returns
---Rhonda on 3/29/11




\\Because babylon may still have been a waste land at that time.
this surely referrs to rome
---francis on 3/29/11\\

Actually, there was quite a large Jewish community in that area, as the Talmudic saying goes. "To live in Babylonia is to live in Judea."

If St. Peter's first ministry was to the circumsised, as St. Paul says in one of his letters, there's no reason that Peter would not have gone there.

And there was also a very old and substantial Jewish community in Rome--the oldest continuing one in Europe, in fact. And we know Peter went there.
---Cluny on 3/29/11


No, I think Islam is definitely an enemy of Christ and of His people but not the "beast". I believe it is Rome and all that the Roman Churches power stands for which is being shown each and every day. I do NOT mean the Catholic people, but the hierarchy of the Church only. There are many millions of fine Christian people among the Catholic nations who truly seek the Lord Jesus as their Saviour and they are saved, Praise His Holy Name.
---John_T on 3/29/11


I believe Peter was in Rome, but I think taking that verse to imply such is stretching it a bit just to try to prove something that may not even be accounted for in the Bible.
---micha9344 on 3/29/11


However it is funny that they have taken the derogatory meaning for Babylon to prove Peter was in Rome...HA!!HA!HA!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/29/11
Because babylon may still have been a waste land at that time.
this surely referrs to rome
---francis on 3/29/11


Larry, If I'm in GA, and have visitors from CA, and I 'm writing to a church in PA, I would conclude,

13The church that is at CA, elected together with you, saluteth you, and so doth Marcus my son.

THAT IS AT does not say, The Church HERE in Babylon. We don't know where Peter was when he wrote that do we now!

13The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you, and so doth Marcus my son.


However it is funny that they have taken the derogatory meaning for Babylon to prove Peter was in Rome...HA!!HA!HA!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/29/11




From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

St. Peter's First Epistle was written almost undoubtedly from Rome, since the salutation at the end reads: "The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark" (5:13). Babylon must here be identified with the Roman capital.


Oops!!!
---larry on 3/28/11


I believe Peter does not mean Babylon in Egypt, nor Jerusalem, nor Rome as figurative Babylon, but the ancient celebrated Babylon in Assyria, which was the metropolis of the eastern dispersion of the Jews.

Babylon is figurative of Rome, not the literal name for Rome. In that I disagree with Larry.

And if it were, that verse does not prove Peter wrote it from Rome.

When Paul was in Rome, he called it Rome...not Babylon.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/11


Kathr ... You say "Bible never puts Peter in Rome!"

And yet your Larry, who like you is tryng to condemn the RCC (or Rome) as the Beast pints us to 1 Peter 5 13 as evidence that Rome is babylon, and relies on tyhe Epistle which Peter wrote from Rome!!

Selective quotation can prove anything!
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/26/11


Okay Cluny, we'll ignore Italy's own tourist bureau and the Vatican's own web site identifying Rome as the City of Seven Hills just so you can be right. God bless you brother. And yes I know Rio was also built on 7 hills.
Anyway, the 7 hills has been identified with Rome for over 2000 years, its also known as Babylon of which John and Peter identify. Look at 1st Peter 5:13.
The idea of Islam is interesting for the Prince of Persia is of great strength and has led many astray, but I still think Babylon and the Beast point toward the RCC.
---larry on 3/26/11


\\Cults can say and teach anything they want...\\

And that's exactly what you do.
---Cluny on 3/25/11


And we have no eye witnesses on this blog of your actual existence (except your say-so, which is questionable for everything), and you're not mentioned in the Bible, therefore you do not exist, by your own standards.
---Cluny on 3/24/11


Isn't that the most amazing argument cults bring to the table...Cults can say and teach anything they want...using this argument. Including bread truning into Jesus body...since no scriptural proof Peter or Paul actually accomplished that voodo themselves on anyone or taught it to anyone.....
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11


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\\Salminius Hermias Sozomenus
(c. 400 c. 450) was a historian of the Christian church. What he has to tell us was derived from oral tradition. \\

Same as the Evangelists, for that matter.

\\NONE were Eye Witnesses of any Peter being in Rome!\\

And we have no eye witnesses on this blog of your actual existence (except your say-so, which is questionable for everything), and you're not mentioned in the Bible, therefore you do not exist, by your own standards.
---Cluny on 3/24/11


Right kathr,
Peter never died.
Mary never died.
Peter was never in Rome.
All because scripture does not proclaim it.
---micha9344 on 3/24/11


NONE were Eye Witnesses of any Peter being in Rome!
---kathr4453 on 3/24/11

But these were:

'You have thus by such an admonition bound together the plantings of Peter and Paul at Rome and Corinth." Dionysius of Corinth, Epistle to Pope Soter, fragment in Eusebius' Church History, II:25 (c. A.D. 178).

"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:1:1 (c. A.D. 180).
---Ruben on 3/24/11


Socrates and Sozomen and Eusebius

Notwithstanding the great influence of his works on others, Eusebius was not himself a great historian. lived 263 died 339ad

Salminius Hermias Sozomenus
(c. 400 c. 450) was a historian of the Christian church. What he has to tell us was derived from oral tradition. The source for about three-fourths of his material was the writings of Socrates Scholasticus.

Socrates Scholasticus Born 380 AD. The purpose of his history is to continue the work of Eusebius of Caesarea It relates in simple Greek language what the Church experienced from the days of Constantine to the writer's time.

NONE were Eye Witnesses of any Peter being in Rome!
---kathr4453 on 3/24/11


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\\Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years,\\

Just the three sources I mentioned.
---Cluny on 3/24/11


Apparently Peter is not dead either, since the Bible doesn't proclaim it.
---micha9344 on 3/23/11

So I guess Mary is still alive today too because scripture doesn't proclaim it!

Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years, Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."

We Know in Acts Peter was in Jerusalem not Rome.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/11


I believe this is a decision of the Council of Trent, which was in the 16th century or thereabout.

---Cluny on 3/23/11

So, you're saying there were no wars or burning at the stake of anyone before the 16th Century???

And St Patrick, was he an anna baptist? Why did the RCC make him a saint? and not John Wycliffe? or Huss who were hated by ???? long before the 16th century? Why? What did they ever do to be so hated. The RCC dug up Wycliffe's bones and burned then, they hated him so much..long before the 16th century. Hummm, Wycliffe lived in the 1300, or 14th century.



---kathr4453 on 3/24/11


Where one begins the history of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is itself a matter of theological judgment, fraught with serious ecumenical implications. Is Roman Catholicism (RC) a post-Reformation phenomenon, or is it the original form of the church?* Is early Catholicism to be found already in the New Testament, or is it an entirely post-biblical development? Catholic scholars, even very liberal ones such as Hans Kng, insist that Catholicism is present from the beginning, that the history of the RCC has its starting point within the NT rather than in the post-Reformation period.
---Laura on 3/24/11


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\\WHEN did the RCC decide that only through teh RCC Church one was saved? From 1000ad on?\\

I believe this is a decision of the Council of Trent, which was in the 16th century or thereabout.

But since I'm not and never have been a Roman Catholic, I don't really care.

And I've noticed that you have NOT answered my question about what St. Patrick has to do with this discussion. Why not?
---Cluny on 3/23/11


Cluny, correct me if I'm wrong. Question, WHEN did the RCC decide that only through teh RCC Church one was saved? From 1000ad on? What then happened to the souls of man from 33AD to 1000ad, if no RCC Church was around? Or are only those from 1000ad on really saved?

---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


Apparently Peter is not dead either, since the Bible doesn't proclaim it.
---micha9344 on 3/23/11


\\Of coarse they do...however the Bible never puts Peter in Rome!
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11\\

This proves what, exactly?

The Bible doesn't say that Japan, Austrailia, the polar ice caps, or North America existed.

So we are to assume they didn't, either?

The Bible is not a history (except to a limited extent) or geography book. Did you think it was?
---Cluny on 3/23/11


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All early church historians, such as Socrates and Sozomen and Eusebius refer to Peter's being in Rome.
---Cluny on 3/23/11


Of coarse they do...however the Bible never puts Peter in Rome!
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


\\You say no RCC in 300AD? Now what year was St. Patrick???\\

No, there was no Roman Catholic Church (as opposed to the Apostolic Roman Church) until 1054, when she split from Orthodoxy.

\\What year did Mary replace Dianna? \\

Never. You don't actually think she did, do you?

And what does St. Patrick have to do with this?

\\And Cluny, didn't you say the Original Apostles RE Peter was the first Pope? First Pope of what?\\

Nope. I never said that.

\\The church that began in Jerusalem, \\

Who denies it?

\\since Peter was never in Rome!\\

All early church historians, such as Socrates and Sozomen and Eusebius refer to Peter's being in Rome.
---Cluny on 3/23/11


Secular history looks at hills and mountains as a physical mass of land. Scripture however looks at it differently

Galatians 4:25
For this Agar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Hebrews 12:
18For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

--And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

If you on the right MT. you need not worry about the others!
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


... southern baptist rules are not my church's rules for sure.
I had still rather sit on 7 hills in nashville than 7 hills of islam.
---shira3877 on 3/23/11

Your not a sth/nth/east/west/baptist either it appears.

Me too rather than islam....outside the Baptist Convention with some sinners.
Listen, I knew I would offend some Baptist somewhere....you are not the head or representing the organization. I'm sure you are good...good enough to defend the principles. I'm sure I wouldn't be worthy too...to be a baptist. It's hard enough being a Christian.
---Trav on 3/23/11


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Since it didn't exist until 1054, how could it have "always been a power"?
---Cluny on 3/23/11

You say no RCC in 300AD? Now what year was St. Patrick???

What year did Mary replace Dianna?

It is known that St. Patrick was born in Britain to wealthy parents near the end of the fourth century. He is believed to have died on March 17, around 460 A.D

And Cluny, didn't you say the Original Apostles RE Peter was the first Pope? First Pope of what? The church that began in Jerusalem, since Peter was never in Rome!

So enlighten me.

---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


trav, I don't know what baptist church you go to but I would have been gone from there a long time ago. southern baptist is not the norm for baptist. I am baptist and no one makes our rules except God, thru His Word.....The Holy Bible. southern baptist rules are not my church's rules for sure. In lieu of what I just said, I had still rather sit on 7 hills in nashville than 7 hills of islam.
---shira3877 on 3/23/11


\\The rcc has always been a political power influencing christianity!\\

Since it didn't exist until 1054, how could it have "always been a power"?
---Cluny on 3/23/11


OTOH, Mecca ALSO sits on 7 hills.

So does Nashville, the seat of the Southern Baptist Convention.
---Cluny on 3/22/11

Ha,Cluny your a daisy for sure. You made me think what a Harlot the Baptist papacy has become. One of head poo-pahs of the Baptist Organization has caused one of my best friends to divorce his wife. Mr baptist is still sleeping with her,still married to his own wife. Oh yeah, he is still a head honcho baptist rule maker for the baptist sheeple. He makes the rules,writes books.... they send him money.

I've heard their divorce rate exceeds the general public's. hmmm. Maybe they misinterpret the love thing or something.
---Trav on 3/23/11


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Mystery Baylon. Has anyone ever noticed the description? If looking at OT, and the dress of the High Priest, you will see the parallel.

However you will see one color missing...BLUE which represents Heaven. This is a description of a mock earthly priesthood.

This woman who rides the beast is, I believe not only the RCC MOCK of the Priesthood, Since Jesus is the Only High Priest, and all apostate christianity RIDING the back of the beast...and you call the beast Jerusalem/Jews??? Bazzar! Their in union with one another, until the beast ( political entity) devours her...

Stay away from politics in christianity! The rcc has always been a political power influencing christianity!




---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


\\Cluny, by now everyone has Googled Rome and 7 hills, and its foolish to revise secular historical AND biblical commentaries on the City of Seven Hills. \\

Since when are Biblical commentaries--especially biased ones--the last word on historical truth?

And if people were to look up Rome on a popular on-line encyclopedia (which Googling would point them to), they would see that it sits on TEN hills, not seven.

Any way, secular history is always being revised.
---Cluny on 3/22/11


Yeah I think we got hijacked lol. Nice talkin with ya.

There are of course those who say that Mecca is also on "seven mountains"
---Jasheradan on 3/23/11


Jasheradan-

Thanks for the interesting conversation about the Beast and such... it was nice while it lasted.

God Bless!
---Lutherist on 3/22/11


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Cluny, by now everyone has Googled Rome and 7 hills, and its foolish to revise secular historical AND biblical commentaries on the City of Seven Hills.
Scarlet IS the color of the Pope with the point being it is the outward description of the harlot we read in scripture, and its been that color since Paul II. Good grief. The point of my response is the identity of the beast in Revelation 17.as the Papacy not Islam.
You can have the argument, I'll answer the question.
BTW, scarlet is a shade of red and not a different color. God bless.
---larry on 3/22/11


\\Rome sits on 7 hills not 9 and they are Palatine, Viminal,Capitoline, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.\\

You forgot to mention the Vatican, Pincian, and Janiculum hills. That makes 10. (I was mistaken)

\\The colors of the Papacy are not Purple and Gold but Scarlet and Purple as I first said and noted in Revelation 17:3-4.\\

I never said they were purple and gold. They are SILVER (white) and gold.

\\The Pope wears White but to this day Scarlet at his installation \\

Not scarlet but red, as it's a votive Mass of the Holy Spirit. As well as other Latin clergy, he wears different colors on different liturgical days.

\\as do the Cardinals.\\

And this proves what? You're talking about the POPE.
---Cluny on 3/22/11


---larry for you to correct Cluny is really outrageous. Should he be found in a mistake, kindly inform the writers of the history books and have things changed to conform to his views.
---mima on 3/22/11


No brother Cluny, Rome sits on 7 hills not 9 and they are Palatine, Viminal,Capitoline, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.

The colors of the Papacy are not Purple and Gold but Scarlet and Purple as I first said and noted in Revelation 17:3-4.
The Pope wears White but to this day Scarlet at his installation as do the Cardinals.
God bless.
---larry on 3/22/11


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Actually, larry, the colors of the papacy are gold and silvr, not scarlet, as can be seen from the flag of the Holy See.

And Rome sits on NINE hills, not seven.

Lutherist, you are right about the "Jerusalem that now is" sitting on 7 hills. There is also only ONE nation in the Bible personified as harlot, and it's not Rome that Jesus said killed prophets.

OTOH, Mecca ALSO sits on 7 hills.

So does Nashville, the seat of the Southern Baptist Convention.
---Cluny on 3/22/11


If Israel is the harlot, then why in Zechariah 12-14 is Jesus protecting the Harlot, and will one day heal the Harlot and rule over the Harlot in Love? When you accuse Israel, you accuse God!

---kathr4453 on 3/22/11


Jerusalem is the Harlot drunk with the blod of the saints, that sits on seven MOUNTAINS...

1- Mt Moriah, 2- MT ophel, 3- Mt Zion, 4- Northwest Mount, 5- Mt Bethsaida, 6- Mt of Olives, 7- Mt Calvary (Golgotha)
---Lutherist on 3/21/11


Its not Satan but Rome which (7 horns) sits on 7 hills and the eighth governor is the Papacy. For Rome had seven sorts of government and the Ten horns appears to be the EU for which the Papacy will rise, scarlet being the color of the Papacy
---larry on 3/21/11


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Proof Three-

Daniel gives us the specific empire that will bring desolation to the entire planet. (Daniel 12:11-12) And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is SET UP, there will be 1,290 days. There will be exactly 1,290 years between these two events. The Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the temple, thus putting an end to the regular sacrifice in 600BC. If we add 1,290 years to 600BC, we arrive at 690AD. The abominable Islamic Dome of the Rock was SET UP on the holy Temple Mount in Jerusalem in 690AD. Obviously, God is saying that the abomination that will cause the Last Days worldwide devastation, is the false prophet Mohammed, and the violent religion of Islam.
---Lutherist on 3/21/11


RICHARD,

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I don't believe from this verse that the beast and satan are one in the same. Three different beings listed.

Mystery Babylon..is this whole world satanic system. vs Christ and His New creatures in a New Creation.

The Kingdoms Satan offered to Jesus..40 days, Satan will offer to someone again, until The Kingdoms become teh Kingdom of Christ...Revelation 11, announces this and we see the victory in the end!
---kathr4453 on 3/21/11


Welcome Trav-
Your input is always interesting, although not always helpful.
We are discussing whether or not Islam is Beast out of the Sea.
---Lutherist on 3/18/11

Well I agree I'm not helping-u. Not helpful because you have the "Who" ....misapplied or non referenced in ur searchings.
If you can't find a lost sheep how will you ever recognize a beast of the sea using scripture? Ur speculating about a beast that will be apparent when it's time.

Uzziah was the "Tenth" king of "Judah" after the secession of the "other","Ten". From Judah.
The "KING of JUDAH" killed or had Amos killed.
Dying a leper... is interesting as a mark.
---Trav on 3/20/11


See this is where my problem is. There are striking similarites between Islam and the pagan religions of ancient arabia and Babylon that alert me to the possibility that Islam wasnt started by Muhammad. Its the same religion that the ancient Babylonians had.
---Jasheradan on 3/18/11

Yes, and carried out through the Roman empire. Does the old Roman empire and Islam have alot in common. Do many things of the Old Roman empire carry over into RCC teaching?

We know there will be a one world religion/government at that time. To say its exactly Islam only is incorrect. Maybe Islam converts to RCC, They both love Mary! Have prayer beads etc.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/11


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You are most welcome, Jasheradan. Hope you have learned something.
---christan on 3/20/11


THE BEAST is satan -

REVELATION 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon,that serpent of old, who is the devil and satan, and bound him for a thousand year,and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nation no more till the thousand years were finshed.But after these thing he must be released for a little while. ( THOUSAND years in the Bible can mean completeness in time)

REVELATION 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, will acend out of the bottomless pit and go in to perdition ------ ( REFER - 2 THESSALONIAN 2:3 )
---RICHARDC on 3/20/11


Here is my concern with my understanding of Isamic belief.

12 Iman.

[Al Mahdi (the guided one), which will materialize when the believers are severely oppressed in every corner of the world. He will fight the oppressors, unite the Muslims, bring peace and justice to the world, rule over the Arabs, and lead a prayer in Mekkah at which Isa(pbuh) (Jesus) will be present]

It appears they believe two events -must happen first-
Destruction of
USA and the Jews.

Check/balance
---char on 3/20/11


Thanks for contributing, Christan

Now do you happen to have anything on the topic at hand?
---Jasheradan on 3/19/11


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Do not concern yourself with other "faiths" that do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord. They have only one gate prepared for them by God.

However, Jesus declared "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23
---christan on 3/19/11


Proof Two:

From Babylon, Daniel prophesied about FOUR empires of Gods judgment that would RISE from the time of his prophesy. (Daniel 7:3) "And four great beasts were coming up out of the sea." Babylon was already declining, therefore, Daniel starts his prophesy with the Persian Empire, then Greece, then Rome, and then ISLAM.

(Daniel 7:23) "the fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms" The Islamic Empire is unique. The present resurrected Islamic Empire exists without any borders or boundaries, and is based solely on religion. This Islamic Empire will wage war against the SAINTS and overpower them, and it will devour and crush the WHOLE EARTH.
---Lutherist on 3/19/11


Moderator, why was my response to John.usa, not posted?
---Jasheradan on 3/19/11


jerry6593-

You now a lot of Christian Revelation "Cliches", but you need to actually read the scripture verses I include, before you disagree. The Beast out of the Sea is clearly NOT the WOMAN (Harlot)...

(Re 17:7) "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the BEAST THAT CARRIES HER, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns."

(Re 17:16) "And the ten horns which thou sawest, and THE BEAST, these shall HATE THE HARLOT, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her utterly with fire."
---Lutherist on 3/19/11


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First Proof:

(Re 17:8-11) "And there are seven kingdoms, five have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece), one is (Rome), and the other has not yet come, and when it comes, it must remain a little while. And the beast which was and is not, is itself also an eighth, and it is of the seventh, and it goes to destruction." (Re 13:3-4) "And I saw one of his (seven) heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed." The seventh empire is clearly Islam. Islam was dealt a fatal wound when the Ottoman Empire was defeated by Allied forces in 1919. This fatal wound was healed in 1948 when Islamic countries joined to attack the re-established nation of Israel.
---Lutherist on 3/19/11


Best I can tell Luther, the southeastern inside corner of the Kaaba is now covered with walls. So what you say may very well be true. For so long people were denied access to the inside of the Kaaba and now that its opened they appear to be hiding something.
---Jasheradan on 3/19/11


No. The Beast:

Is both a woman (church) and a city.

Has it's seat on seven mountains.

Arises from among the 10 nations after the fall of pagan Rome, and as a "little horn," it roots up 3 of the 10.

Is diverse from the other powers - as iron and clay are unmixable.

Has the eyes of a man and a name which may be counted to total 666.

Speaks blasphemy - two examples of which are given by the Bible as (1) claiming to be God and (2) claiming the power to forgive sins against God.

Persecuted the saints of God for 1260 years (42 months or 3 1/2 times).

Thinks to change times and laws.

Suffered a deadly wound that was healed.

And all the world wonders after the Beast.
---jerry6593 on 3/19/11


Jasheradan-

I don't know that much. That's why I asked. It is my understanding that the black stone on the outside S.E. corner of the Kaaba, extends inside, where the majority of the meteorite stone is the shape of a Cresent Moon.
---Lutherist on 3/19/11


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Its a black meteorite isnt it, Luther?
---Jasheradan on 3/19/11


Welcome Trav-

Your input is always interesting, although not always helpful. Perhaps you forgot the Prophet Amos who was tortured and murderd in the Northern Kingdom of Israel at the city of Behtel.

We are discussing whether or not Islam is the Beast out of the Sea.

Keturah, Abraham's wife after the death of Sarah, is completely irrelevant to the discussion. God's chosen line of his chosen people are... Abraham, Isaac, and then Jacob (Israel).

Do you have anything constructive to add to whether or not Islam is the Beast out of the Sea?
---Lutherist on 3/18/11


Jasheradan-

Are you aware of what is inside of the "Kaaba" in Mecca?
---Lutherist on 3/18/11


(Mt 23:37-39). "Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us" (1Th 2:15).
---Lutherist on 3/16/11

Judah killed the prophets and Christ of course. Judah...never divorced still carried married title Israel.
Israel Nth House divorced Lost Sheep of. Still a playa in saga.

Point? Judah...not the Divorced house filling part of these statements.

Hey don't forget Abrahams wife,Keturah....some off spring on that side that link with your study on peoples of that region. Curious what you find...I haven't looked closely.
Genesis 25:4
And the sons of Midian, Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abidah, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
---Trav on 3/18/11


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Also interesting that the god of the Sumerians (the moon god) was named Sin and his symbol is a crescent moon. Stars are symbolic of the offspring of a god. Crescent moon with a star coming out of it is the symbol of Islam.

Sin giving birth to his son, the Islamic Mahdi.
---Jasheradan on 3/18/11


Just a point of interest...

The Bible does mention the "Assyrian" as Israel's final foe many times. The first capital of the fledgling Islamic Empire was DAMASCUS in ASSYRIA.

The scriptures leave NO doubt as to who the Beast out of the Sea is. I have MUCH more scriptural evidence to share, if this blog continues.
---Lutherist on 3/18/11


Jasheradan-

I have become convinced from scripture that the Beast out of the Sea is Islam, and the False Prophet will be the Mahdi, the One who speaks for Mohammed (the original False Prophet).

I diasgree with the premis that Islam's roots are Babylonian. The Babylonian religion was completely pagan. They worshiped MANY gods. The main gods were...
Anu, Marduk, Tiamat, Kingu, Enlil, Nabu, Ishtar, Ea, Enurta, Anshar, Shamash, Ashur, and Kishar.

Islam worships a single god, Allah. Mohammed invented his new religion based on a combination of Christian, Jewish and Pagan beliefs. Arabs are descended from ISHMAEL. From the beginning, Ishmael was enemy of ISAAC (Israel) and EVERY MAN (Ge 16:11-12).
---Lutherist on 3/18/11


//but the Arabs, from whom Islam stems, are the progeny of Abraham//

See this is where my problem is. There are striking similarites between Islam and the pagan religions of ancient arabia and Babylon that alert me to the possibility that Islam wasnt started by Muhammad. Its the same religion that the ancient Babylonians had.
---Jasheradan on 3/18/11


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mima:

The Beast (Islamic Empire) is not the Woman (Harlot). But, actually carries her on its back (Re 17:7). However, the Beast still hates her and wants to destroy her (Re 17:16). Just as Islamic countries hate and want to destroy Israel. Yet, Israel still exists in (rides on) the land of the Middle Eastern Islamic Empire.

God often refered to apostate Israel and Jerusalem as a "Harlot" like in (Jer 3:8). Jerusalem is this "Harlot" city that is drunk with the blood of the saints. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her!" (Mt 23:37-39). "Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us" (1Th 2:15).
---Lutherist on 3/16/11


This is an interesting scenario. Continueing on in Revelation this beast is called a woman.Do you believe that Islam has never been called a woman? If ever there existed a masculine religion to the detriment of women it is Islam!!!
---mima on 3/16/11


Yes! I do believe that the Beast out of the Sea, that was, is not, and is about to come... is the Islamic Empire. I also believe that the False Prophet is Mohammed, personified in the person of the Twelfth Imam, the Madhi, the coming Islamic Messiah.

I have a LOT of scriptural evidence. I am very curious! How did you come to this question? I thought that I was the only Bozo on this bus.
---Lutherist on 3/15/11




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