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Man's Freewill For God

How does man's "freewill" fit in with these verses, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

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I remember MarkV saying (months ago, literally) that he begged the Lord for mercy. At the time, I took it as being the expression of a contrite person not as a doctrinal statement.
---Donna66 on 3/28/11

Interestingly enough markv tells those who didn't beg they are not saved..That is a doctrinal statement. and if you don't agree with that doctrine you're not saved.

When I question him about it, he has told me over and over i am not saved, because I didn't beg.

How much begging does one need to do? How do you know you've begged enough to please God? Is it when you FEEL something....so salvation is now by feeling and begging and not by faith??
---kathr4453 on 3/28/11


Yes He did, He swore to Abraham, and made a promise even God Himself cannot break.

Here's an ACTUAL analogy.

John 3:14, JUST AS Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must we lift up Jesus Christ.

What exactly happened? Some sinned, and God brought leprosy upon them. God said THOSE who look upon the bronze serpent will be healed. Now unmerited favor(calvins way) would have no bronze serpent in the first place to look upon, just God doling out unmerited favor to who He wanted for no reason but His sovereign right to do so. But that's not what scripture teaches.

Were those who looked upon the bronze serpent saving themselves because they looked upon the Bronze Serpent...according to Markv, yes they were.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/11


I remember MarkV saying (months ago, literally) that he begged the Lord for mercy. At the time, I took it as being the expression of a contrite person not as a doctrinal statement.
---Donna66 on 3/28/11


Here's an analogy.

In the beginning man was whole having two legs. Man sinned, and as a result lost one leg. All men after that are born with one Leg.

God sent His Son into the world, having two legs, and has offered the healing of giving two legs to those who place their faith in His Son.

Those who by faith in His Promise receive the GIFT of their second legs, being healed.

Mark however says he was given faith to believe, yet was not given his second leg....markv had to beg for the leg....WHY???

Because markv's faith was not in the promise to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/11


//MarkV, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, "Anyone just calling on the name of the Lord, is not good enough."//

Satan also called God a liar in Gen 3:3,4 .

Eve believed it.

Will you 2 make the same mistake?

God sword by himself. God does not lie. (Hebrews 6:13-18)
---Jasheradan on 3/28/11




Mark, you didnt give scripture.

You also missed my point.

Noone will call upon the name of the Lord unless the Spirit leads them to it.

That doesnt mean the man cant resist the Spirit. How many examples of men resisting Gods will and being punished for it do you need to see in the Bible before you believe its possible?
---Jasheradan on 3/28/11


MarkV, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, "Anyone just calling on the name of the Lord, is not good enough."

Because on Judgement Day, this is what Christ will say to them, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23

More importantly, does Jesus know (love) you?
---christan on 3/27/11


Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Markv states he was regenerated FIRST before he had faith and that regeneration was what gave him access to faith.

Now if that were so, God's mercy was already given mark WHEN he was regenerated. So markv, you even contradict your own interpretation of this verse.


AND we come BOLDLY (with confidence) TO the throne of grace KNOWING we find Mercy and help in time of NEED.

We by faith, believing in God's love and nature towards us receive it.

His MERCY is new every day. You believe in unmerited favor and not unmerited MERCY!!
---kathr4453 on 3/27/11


Marlkv, I'm also confused. Which scipture tells us we must beg for mercy. If my salvation is based on my begging God for mercy...God would make that absolutely clear more than once. What scripture tells us if we don't beg for mercy we are not saved....(that you begged for after you were saved)??

Grace can't be separated from Mercy...so did you beg for GRACE?...after it was forced on you? Irresistable Grace???

I don't have time to chase your tail around in circles markv. Now others here see this too. Maybe someone will catch it and be able to stop this cycle of destructiveness.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/11


Jasheradan, great answer, Without the work of the Spirit, just calling on the name of the Lord is not good enough. That was my point. That is why I answered Kathr the way I did. People who are out there witnessing to others but tell people all they have to do is call on the name of the Lord and they will be save will not bring salvation. They have to believe in their heart, on the works of Christ, they have to have a contrite heart towards Christ. Many have called on the name of the Lord and never had a contrite heart, They were never born of God. John 1:12,13 tells us who are those who receive Christ who are truly saved,
"who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"
---Mark_V. on 3/28/11




Jasheradan, It's ok if you have missed something in Scripture. The fact is that we all miss many things because we all don't know everything. We can read a passage many times and miss the real meaning, until one day the Spirit brings light to that passage. But what is important is that when you hear the Truth and you check to make sure, you learn something else God wants to convey if your heart is open to the Word of God. Blessings to you and peace.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/11


Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted to him as righteousness.

MarkV did not BELIEVE our sin was placed on Jesus Christ, and therefore no faith in what God said.

Even after markv was given faith to believe (depraved people can't beg for mercy according to markv) he still didn't BELIEVE Christ paid for his sin.

So exactly what is this faith you were given to believe? Believe what?

Maybe markv, you're the one not saved here.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/11


I'm sorry Mark but apparently I've overlooked some scripture. Which ones spoken by Jesus Christ tell us that the Comforter would give us faith?
---Jasheradan on 3/27/11


MarkV, is your judgement of others based on your own personal experience?

The Lord personally asked me for my whole life...and I totally surrendered it over 30 years ago...That's MY personal experience. Through that personal Ecxperience I have identified in His death and resurrection life, am a partaker of HIS SUFFERINGS, just as the Bible testifies we do, and continue to Grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Paul's experience was different than mine.

When I turned to Christ, it was in repentance, knowing myself a sinner, and receiving His forgivness through Mercy/Grace a wonderful gift becase of what He did, not what I did.

Can you show any NT examples of anyone begging for salvation? Paul?? Cormelius??
---kathr4453 on 3/27/11


//Anyone just calling on the name of the Lord, is not good enough. Millions have done that and according to Scripture they could not possibly be save//MarkV

Mark, I simply cannot believe you just said that.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved.

A man who calls upon the name of the Lord has already been persuaded of WHO Jesus Christ is and our need for Him and Lord and Savior. That is why we are calling upon his name. That knowledge can only come from the Holy Spirit. Therefore if a man is given that knowledge by the Holy Spirit it is Gods will that man be saved.
---Jasheradan on 3/26/11


Kathr, if you are born of the Spirit, you will have a contrite heart, you will be given faith and the Spirit will convict your heart of sins you've committed against God, you will beg for forgiveness (if you are too proud to beg, then you are not ready to commit your life to Christ), indicating your heart has not changed, your still the same old sinful person that you were, and don't want to commit totally to Christ. What you want is something (salvation) without giving your life totally to Christ. Read about Simon the sorcerer who gave money for the gifts of the Spirit. Peter told him "You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness..."
---Mark_V. on 3/27/11


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No MarkV, it's your confusion of the verse that you have interpreted that is your confusion.

According to His Mercy, is based solely on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ death and resurrection. The mercy seat, in the OT was as type of Christ, sprinkled with BLOOD. The Mercy seat in Heaven now sprinkled with Christ's Blood, is that Mercy seat anyone can now come boldly to the Throne of Grace.

According to His Mercy, HIS BLOOD, His death and resurrection life, man through receiving His Gift of Mercy is renewed in the Holy Spirit and washed clean.

Even Romans 9 "The Passover," blood on the door posts, was first shown whereby Israel received Mercy out of bondage. It had nothing to do with God's good humor.

---kathr4453 on 3/26/11


Kathr, as I can see by your answers, you are so confused. You have been promoting free will, the right for a person to choose Christ by the persons own free will, and now you turn around and give Scripture to argue your own points. You said correctly,

"ACCORDING TO His mercy He saved us..."

I have given you Titus 3:5 and so many other passages that states that it is God who chooses the individuals by His mercy, His own choice. Think about what you write before you write it. You are on the side of man's free will, or on the side, of God's free will. And stop blaming Calvin just because you are confused. If you had studied his teachings, you would know He teaches what you quoted.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/11


MarkV, what word you tell me is not God's word He tells me.

You stated once you after salvation BEGGED God for mercy. However salvation is receiving His Mercy. We dont beg for a Gift, we receive His Gift. So if you begged b4 salvation, that is WORKS saving yourself, or even after again is works saving yourself.

ACCORDING TO His mercy He saved us...

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,


We are not saved according to the amount of mercy we beg for. His Mercy is in Christ, and Christ's finished work on the cross. It's not even in His good humor of picking you out!...Romans 9.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11


Jasherdan, thank you for the way you stated your post. First, I did not judge whether she had faith or not, or whether she had repentance or not. I cannot see her heart, only read what she says. "She said she didn't." If that is true, then there is no salvation according to Scripture. I don't know if she had it or not, she said she didn't.
Anyone just calling on the name of the Lord, is not good enough. Millions have done that and according to Scripture they could not possibly be save, most think that is reason why they lose salvation, but they never had it. How can they lose what they never had? Read Romans 10:9-11.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/11


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//"you came to Christ with no faith and no conviction for repentance." All you did was call on the name of the Lord, and you got everything.//

Mark, I understand what you are saying to an extent but we cant judge whether or not someone had a truly repentant heart at the time the first turned to Jesus in faith.

As far as faith goes, she obviously had faith to begin with or she wouldn't even have called upon his name.
---Jasheradan on 3/25/11


Kathr, with love I tell you this. Not because you reject the Word of God I give you. Concerning what I answered to Mima, that calling on the name of the Lord is not enough to save anyone. I remember what you said to me once, your words,
"That you came to Christ with no faith and no conviction for repentance." All you did was call on the name of the Lord, and you got everything. I told you it was not the gospel of Christ. You argued over and over. Your an example of what I was trying to tell Mima. That you cannot commit your life to Christ with no faith, or conviction from the Spirit. Then you argue there is another gospel. Do you even know why you argue? Think.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/11


Nana, that was great.

John 6, was to Jews before calvary, John 12 where Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

WE must lift up Christ and the Cross to the unsaved and Jesus said if we do this HE will draw all men unto Him. We're drawn to the Cross, and the risen Christnot Christ before the Cross.

We also know in this age of Grace the Holy Spirit does the drawing to Christ bringing us to the Father. MarkV claims to have known the Father before ever knowing Christ...how and when?

God was a Father to Israel, and must be understood in that context.

They knew of the Father through the Law and Prophets, not through Jesus Christ crucified and risen.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11


"Thats why we need to preach the Gospel to ALL the world so thy too may hear."
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11

Definitely agree.

Here is a verse from the same general scene of the woman at the well:
John 4:38 "I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours."
What labour? Well, written Scripture, customs, mores, traditions, in simple terms, the knowledge of God. (John 6:45, Romans 10:14)

That is why besides being obvious...., we are encouraged to teach our kids on the word of God and his ways.

One more:
John 13:19 "Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he."
---Nana on 3/25/11


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"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. And those He drew to Himself, the prophets had written they shall be taught by God, and those same people who are taught come to Christ." Reading the context brings out the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11


Yes and even the woman at the well knew what the scriptures and prophets taught and after talking to Jesus KNEW who He was...

If she had no understanding of that and lived in a cave all her life with no contact with the outside world she wouldn't even know there was a Christ spoken of..
FAITH COMES BY HEARING!

Thats why we need to preach the Gospel to ALL the world so thy too may hear.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11


MarkV, what I do find interesting in your thoughts here is , since the CHURCH was kept secret, that Gentiles and Jews would be one new man in Christ, that was revealed to Paul, as he preached THAT message to Gentiles, and since THAT was never taught from Jesus in the Gospels , except lightly touched upon at His John 17th prayer, are you sure YOUR FAITH is in THAT TRUTH.

Or is your faith in the Earthly Kingdom truths? Is your faith in His death and resurrection.

One can have faith in many things....make sure it's in the correct gospel!
---kathr4453 on 3/25/11


Mima, you gave Romans 10:13, to show that just calling on the name of the Lord was all there was to salvation. And I answered you with the passages before that statement was made to show you that before Paul said what you quoted, he had already mentioned verses 9,10. That when the word is near you, the word of faith they preached, they had to believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead, that with the heart one believe unto righteousness, and the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Millions have called on the name of the Lord and have left Christ. They never had a contrite heart. There was never a change of the heart by God. The lost love darkness rather then light. They are running away from Him, not towards Him.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/11


In this statement,"I wonder why anyone would call on the Lord unless they had faith?"
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/24/11
alan states a magnificent, logical, simple, truth. This has been my experience while witnessing. Some people refuse to call on the name of the Lord, after being invited to, after having it explained to them what it means to do so, simply because they have no faith.
---mima on 3/25/11


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I wonder why anyone would call on the Lord unless they had faith?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/24/11


Kathr, when you speak, it never says nothing about free will. You want it to, but it just doesn't.
John 6:44 Jesus was answering to the Jews who complained about Him. Because Jesus had said, "I'm the bread of life which came down from Heaven" And they thought He was lying, because they knew His father was Joseph. Jesus told them not to murmur among themselves that "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me, draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. And those He drew to Himself, the prophets had written they shall be taught by God, and those same people who are taught come to Christ." Reading the context brings out the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11


Mima, you should know that without faith and a contrite heart no one is saved, no matter how many times you call on the name of the Lord. What your doing is just telling people to call on the name of the Lord and suddenly they have eternal life. Cluny has touched on this subject before and his right. Do you not have a clue who are the "whosoever" that call are? Read Romans 10:9-11.
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "whoever" believes on Him will not be put to shame"
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11


" calling on the name of the Lord does not save the person. He has to have faith and a circumcise heart."
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11

Now let us see what the Bible has to say(in three different places)
Romans 10:13 for example,
" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Now Mark V I know you mean well but you are totally off base with the above statement.



---mima on 3/24/11


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Sixth, calling on the name of the Lord does not save the person. He has to have faith and a circumcise heart.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11

How shall they call without first hearing..and out of hearing they call, and when they call which is faith in what they heard, THEN one is saved.

Was Abraham saved before or after he was circumcised? THAT MarkV is the point of Romans 4...BEFORE..and circumcision was a token SIGN AFTER Abraham's faith, given because of HIS FAITH!.

No one is circumcised first..and then believes.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/11


Salvation involves surrender, the surrendering of our efforts, to earn by works, our salvation. This of course was the great mistake of the Jewish people and it will always be the error of the human being who depends on human reasoning and human effort for his redemption.
---mima on 3/24/11


\\Nana, Do you believe we are saved by works or by grace?\\

Who said they were antithetical and opposed to each other?

We are saved by the grace and works of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 3/24/11


trey,
Matthew 3:1_2 "... came John the Baptist, preaching ..., Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
God send them and they came calling so, salvation comes or is available by Grace...

Bear fruit was advice and Paul says:

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
, ... ,and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,
that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Salvation is entrance to a new way of living with eternal repercussions (Matt.7:14
---Nana on 3/24/11


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Mima, you say that knowing what "whosoever" means saves people. I believe few people in Mexico knows what the English word "whosoever" means. Unless you are speaking in Spanish. The Spanish word is very different. Third, We're saved by grace through faith, not by knowing what "whosoever" means.
Fourth, You did not answer the passage I gave. "No one can" means that no one has the ability. If Jesus said no one had the ability, how do you get around that? Fifth, you again for got to give the glory to God, you stated what your righteous works did in Mexico. Sixth, calling on the name of the Lord does not save the person. He has to have faith and a circumcise heart.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/11


Nana, Do you believe we are saved by works or by grace?
---trey on 3/23/11


What were some things the Law Prophets taught that came from God originally stated in the OT so that Israel would KNOW? 1, the Virgin Birth for one, but others as well.

Here is another, and you can see these depraved people were actually THINKING with their free will...



John 7:41

Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

42Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


John 6:44 AND 45

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus further explains:

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


Why oh Why do Calvinists distort John 6 and not put the WHOLE text that Jesus said.

MarkV When/what were you taught of the Father FIRST before coming to Jesus?

Oh what a tangles web we weave when first we practice to DECEIVE!!
---kathr4453 on 3/23/11


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---Mark_V what part of "whosoever will" do you find limiting? As a lady I was witnessing too in Mexico once said in answer to my question what does whosoever main. Whosoever means any body Sir. She received the Lord Jesus Christ and promptly went home and introduced her husband to salvation.
---mima on 3/23/11


Nana, you said,

Justification is one thing. We are invited, whomever is thirsty can come." billions are thirsty, but they do not come to Christ. They are unable to come because Jesus said they could not. Not that they don't have permission, but power or ability.

"No one can" come to Me unless it has been Granted to him by My Father"
So the passage you gave,
"John 7:37 "..., If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink."

is welcome, but "only those that can" will come to Him. Those are the ones the Father grants that ability.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/11


I find myself in total agreement with the post made by---RICHARDC on 3/22/11.
---mima on 3/23/11


trey,
Justification is one thing. We are invited, whomever is thirsty can come.
John 7:37 "..., If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink."
Have you drank? Good for you, and now hopefuly we know you by the fruit you bear and you do bear right?
Christ said "follow me", not "jump on my shoulders".

Simple:

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away..."

Matthew 25:31_46
2Cor.7:1
1Thes.4:7
Heb.12:14

No boasting and skating with a show of false humility...
Matt.7:26 "... and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
---Nana on 3/22/11


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Nana, if I am judged of the works that I have done, am doing, and will do then I will surely burn in hell for all eternity. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a sinner. I believe my self to be the chief of sinners and not the Apostle Paul. My only hope of salvation is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that washes away sin. All my hope of eternal salvation is placed in Christ and not myself. I believe Paul said it best: Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
---trey on 3/22/11


RICHARDC,
I really appreciate your honesty, "Now that I wrote all of this ...".
---Nana on 3/22/11


NANA 3/21/11 - Judgment is not base not only book of life.

Nana the way I got this is there two Books - Lambs book of life and the Book of life.Now the way I got this that everyone names are written in the Book of life, and as time goes on the people that are not save get blot out - Refer REVELATION 3,5 - The Lambs book of life has the names of the people that God plans to save. And at the end of time both books match up together with save persons names. Now at judgment day save people are not judge by there works just the unsaved.

Now that I wrote all of this
I have to say this comes from another person study. And I,am doing this fast right now so I have not check out a few things. So this might not be 100%
---RICHARDC on 3/22/11


Trey, very good points you gave. The passages Nana gave in Matt. 25:31-46 is speaking of the earthly reign of Christ described in Rev. 20:4-6. The judgment described in v. 32-46 is different from the Great White Throne of Judgment of Rev. 20:11-15. This judgment precedes Christ's millennial reign, and the subjects are the one's who are alive at His Second Coming. This judgment is sometimes called,
"The Judgment of the nations" not the nations as a whole (v.46).
The books talked about are only two. The book of works, and the Book of life.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/11


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Trey,
#1 I did not judge. Only made an inference as John 'wondered' as those dwelling on the earth.
#2 "... that the scriptures speak of as being twice dead." The second death is only if thrown in the lake.

It is clearly stated:
"...and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those
things which were written in the books, according to their works.
"
The 'books' plus 'the book, how many books?

Even you, there'll come a day that you will be judged as a sheep or a goat, for what you did and not by any decree at the foundation of the world (Matthew 25:31_46).
---Nana on 3/21/11


Nana, I hope I don't offend you. I only mean to point out of few things.
#1) We are not to judge who is and who is not saved eternaly.
#2) Rev 20:12 Please note the word "dead". These being judged are the spiritually dead. They did not receive spiritual life while here in time. Their names were not written in the book of life from before the foundation of the world. These are those that the scriptures speak of as being twice dead.
If you don't agree that is your prerogative.
---trey on 3/21/11


First, there is no such thing as Free will. Everyone's will chooses by it's desires. So it's not free. The desires of the lost is to please their father the devil. The believers desires is to please the Lord Jesus Christ. Everyone does have a choice, and when they choose they will choose what the will desires. Matt. 6:8-13 includes 6 petitions, 3 directed to God (v.9-10) 3 toward human needs (v. 11-13). Matt. 6:8 begins: "Therefore do not be like them, (the lost) For our Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him"
As believers, we should not be like the others. We know God is Sovereign who knows all things, and what is best for His children, the reason we should always ask for His will to be done.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/11


Apparently, him that recounts the happenings in Revelation was not written in the book of life himself, being that he wondered also (Rev 17:6) just as those who would wonder on earth (Rev 17:8).
Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Judgement is based not only on "the book of life", according to that verse...
---Nana on 3/21/11


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REVELATION 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not will ascend out of the bottomless pitt and go to perdition. And dwell on the earth will marvel, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, when they see the breast that was, and not yet.

REVELATION 10,15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


(The people God plan to saved names were written in a book at the beginning of the world. So are will has nothing to do with it.)
---RICHARDC on 3/20/11


trav, WHEN was the finished work of Christ complete? Before the foundation of the world or 2000 years ago?

If God wanted to create a perfect universe, robots included, angels also robots, then no one would have sinned to begin with, and no need for Jesus Christ.

In the Garden God allowed SIN to enter in. In the New Heaven and earth, NO SIN will enter in.

Purpose, God gave man free will... God doesn't want Robots. If He wanted robots, He would have created robots who never sinned, and would have had His perfect Heaven and earth from the get go!
---kathr4453 on 3/19/11


There's no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.
---Cluny on 3/19/11


Are we all so foolish to not consider that this world was created by the will of God? Did any of His creatures contributed to His will? And after creating the world and everything according to His will, did God relinquish His will and left the world to run on its own?

Scripture declares "All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3, without exception. From the creation of man to the crucifixion of Christ to the end of the world, everything happens to the purpose and the will of God. Only a foolish person will think otherwise.
---christan on 3/19/11


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christan, Thy kingdom come...is a prayer asking for the Kingdom Reign of Christ...1000 year reign. ONLY THEN will things be on earth as it is in heaven.

The Kingdom we the Church are in, is not an earthly kingdom here on earth. That's dominion theology.

We are translated out into the Kingdom of His dear Son.

2.)John 6 states with that that ONLY THOSE WHO were first taught by the Father come to Christ.

Tell us all how and when you were taught by God first before coming too Christ.

This was spoken to the JEWS we were infact taught by the Father, through the Law and prophets...and many did come to Christ.

BUT you a Gentile, had to hear the Gospel first to Come to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/11


It is my belief that our eternal salvation is based upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, and Christ alone!
Ro9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Ro9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
When it comes to our salvation, or deliverance here on this earth, that is based upon us. I have freewill to sin, and even to deny God. If I do this I will suffer and miss out on blessings, but Christ cannot deny what he has done for me! 2nd Tim 2:13
---trey on 3/18/11


"Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples."
"When ye pray, say,..."

First of, it is a group prayer. It is verbatum as each member of the group should say it.
"Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
Who does or have done God's will in heaven who also did it on earth?
Why did he tell us:
John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him.
Mattew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Why all that? To teach us!
---Nana on 3/18/11


This statement was made to present to us God's will is not always done on earth,

"It is a supplication and we are asking that His will be done here. That shows that God's will is not always done here."

Now I ask, is that what that passage is saying? That sinful man ask God to do His will, and man does not get the answer he was looking for, God is unable to do His will? Ridiculous. It only means that men does not know the will of God, because it does not match to his own will.
We ask for His will to be done because we depend on His will to be righteous always.
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" Dan. 4:35.
---Mark_V. on 3/18/11


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"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
- Man has the free will to pray this will occur sooner rather than later.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him"
- Man has the freewill to respond after he's been called.

"I will raise him up at the last day."
- The Father also has a will and plans He will act upon when desires to do so.
---AG on 3/18/11


In John Chapter 17 Jesus prayed, "Father, I pray that they may be one even as we are one."

As you become one with Jesus, Colossians says, "Christ is your life." And you develop that Love relationship with Father God and Jesus, your will becomes His will by laying your will down and doing His will. You will want to do His will just like Jesus did when he prayed in the Garden of Gethsame, "Not my will, but THINE be done." We should be praying the same thing.
---Donna5535 on 3/18/11


Mans free will is either to except or reject the Will of God.
---Lawrence on 3/18/11


Paul's and Jonah's actions had nothing to do with free will, God picked them and hounded them until they gave in and did what he wanted. Free will has nothing to do with being a member of the family of God. Members were picked by God prior to creation. That is why no one can be saved now, Membership in Gods family is closed there are no new memberships being offered. Your are either in Gods family or non select and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to change the results. Once you are a member of Gods family you are in he will never dump you. He may give you an attitude adjustment when there is need, but that is it.
---Blogger9211 on 3/17/11


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How free is one's will? There are so many constraints put upon it that one can hardly consider it free. Paul himself complained that he was very often unable to do what he himself willed. So why do we think we are any freer than he was?
---John.usa on 3/18/11


\\Our free wills is of the flesh and as you know the flesh wars with the spirit. \\

Then what good does it do to get people to pray your sinner's prayer, mima?

\\One test of one's salvation is how much of their free will have they given up.\\

To whom are they supposed to give it up?

And how do YOU, mima, tell a person has done so?

And how do we know that you're just not judging in the flesh?
---Cluny on 3/18/11


mima

Does that imply that if someone is making bad decisions through their free will that they are not saved?
---paul on 3/18/11


Our free wills stand in stark contrast to the will of God. Our free wills is of the flesh and as you know the flesh wars with the spirit. One test of one's salvation is how much of their free will have they given up.
---mima on 3/17/11


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The gospel is a promise from God, concerning our Redeemer.

It is not humanly possible to choose or decide to believe something. In order to believe anything, we Must be convinced. It is the same, whether a promise, or 2+2=4, or the earth is round.

But, we can choose NOT to be convinced by rejecting evidence or the message.

Becoming convinced of the gospel is 100% the work of God. His will. No one can come to Him unless he is drawn (John 6:44).

But, rejecting the promise is our responsiblity. Our will. Acts 13:46 "it was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first. Since you reject it..."
---James_L on 3/17/11


The Father draws all men to Jesus Christ. Thats one of the reasons the Holy Spirit was sent after Jesus ascended. (John 16:9)

But yet the Holy Spirit also tells us that it is possible for us to harden our hearts against Him and be denied Gods rest. (Hebrews 3:7-11)
---CraigA on 3/17/11


you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

God can draw a man to the Living Water, but cannot make him drink.

Everyone that has a relationship with Jesus has been drawn in by God, everyone that has been drawn does not necessarily get drawn in.
---aka on 3/17/11


This basic question was asked within the last two weeks, and I'm going to give the same answer I gave then.

How our free will fits in with God's sovereignty is a mystery we won't understand this side of heaven, and in heaven we won't care.
---Cluny on 3/17/11


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Christian

God uses men to build His kingdom just as He used men to build His temple in days of old.
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And 19


Mt 22:2-10 will show you that Gods kingdom need men to build it, Go compel them to come in
With that our free will is to do it ir not. God WILL NOT MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING.

Jesus made a way for ALL men to be drawn to Him by the Father. Then it is mans CHOICE to heed the calling < CHOOSE you this day who you will serve>Jos 24:15

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/17/11


Christan ... Prayers are praise & thanks and supplications.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." is not a statement that God's will is done on earth.

It is a supplication and we are asking that His will be done here. That shows that God's will is not always done here.

Meaning we have freewill and can frustrate His will
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/17/11


conviction is of the spirit,it is a function of the holy spirit,I believe this is the drawing senario nspoken of by christ,of course realizing you are a sinner and in need is first and foremost,for without this the spirit can not convict an unrepentent heart,or mind.
---tom2 on 3/17/11


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