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When Christian men and women get married should all their possessions, prior debts and incomes become one as they are one.

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 ---paul on 3/25/11
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aka:

A pre-nuptial agreement is about protecting assets. It may involve trusting the spouse, but it can also affect things that have nothing to do with trust.

For example, a poor (and foolish) businessman marries a rich woman. A pre-nuptial agreement ensures that if he dies, his creditors (that he acquired before the marriage) can't come after her assets (that she acquired before the marriage).
---StrongAxe on 3/31/11


If you cant trust God to meet your needs no matter what the situation then well.......

I agree.

If you or another have married a christian and lost, maybe God was trying to teach you something. if now, you respond to marriage with pre-nups, you are going in the wrong direction.

Eternal bliss is not in another man, in man's law, or in man's money.

God is trying to make us all see.
---aka on 3/30/11


A pre-nup to me is a half step in a whole note.

If you cant trust your spouse why did you marry her/him.

If you cant trust God to meet your needs no matter what the situation then well.......

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/29/11


Mat 5:46-47 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.
Why would we use all that? Because of the sinfulness of others? To protect what's rightfully ours? Cloaking it in a veil of stewardship? Strange people, no pre-nup? They will get theirs when their spouse takes them for everything they're worth..
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
---micha9344 on 3/29/11


If God (who is a much better judge of character than we are) can enter into a marriage with provisions in case something should go wrong, shouldn't we also be equally prudent?
---StrongAxe on 3/29/11

I think that this is good advice.

We must remember that God's plans for marriage, and the family, were for a sinless, perfect world. If Adam & Eve hadn't sinned, we might all be living in a perfect world. But I imagine that someone else would have sinned and brought trouble into families.

Pre-Nuptial agreements, Wills, Child-Custody Arrangements, etc. are tools for handling things in the imperfect world we live in.
---Sag on 3/29/11




It has been mentioned that a pre-nuptial agreement signifies lack of faith in the spouse, and is planning for failure. Also, people often compare God's marriage with Israel. But if you look at God's convenants with Israel, they were typically conditional - giving God an "out" in case things went sour - which they eventually did.

If God (who is a much better judge of character than we are) can enter into a marriage with provisions in case something should go wrong, shouldn't we also be equally prudent?
---StrongAxe on 3/29/11


\\A prenup is just a piece of paper that says I will love you until ... or lets try this out for a while.\\

Not necessarily.

One of the things a pre-nup does is protect the interest of children from a previous marriage in their parent's estate.
---Cluny on 3/29/11


Karen ... That's interesting ... but what would happen if the man divorced & remarried?

Presumably the old wife would only have the right to the pension purchased up to the date of theri split, and the new wife the pension earned from the date of the marriage?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/28/11


Federal law says that if one spouse has a pension through their employer that the surviving spouse is the beneficiary in case of death. In order for my husband to leave his pension to anyone other than me, I would have to sign a waiver for that. One spouse can collect the other's social security if the marriage lasted more than 10 years.
---KarenD on 3/28/11


A prenup is just a piece of paper that says I will love you until ... or lets try this out for a while. God's plan for love is 1 corthians 13 love never fails, that two should be come one Matt 19:5. A prenup is planning the divorce before you get married.


---Scott on 3/28/11




paul:

Even if God never changes, we certainly do. The society we live in now is very different than that of 2000 or 3000 years ago. For example, back in those days, people often tended to marry around the time of puberty, while in western society, people tend to marry one or two decades later, having already lived a significant portion of their adult lives single.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/11


I put my husband's name on all of my bank accounts and credit cards and beneficiary of my 401K. (stupid me, huh?) When we got divorced, he wanted the money I had from before I was married and in PA anything that was yours stays yours after your divorced. He also got $13,000 of mine to buy a new truck and never paid me back, yet he went after my 401K that I had saved when I was single. He turned out to be a very evil person. POINT OF TELLING YOU THIS: If I ever got married again, I would not put my husband's name on my stuff. A TRUE Christian man would not have "gone after" money, he would have split it or let me have what I saved before I was married..that's the law in PA.
---Donna5535 on 3/28/11


Is the term "In this day and age" applicable to a God who never changes?

Were created in His image not He in ours.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/27/11


personally, i have no problems with pre-nups.

i do not think that God does. He knows the one's who are one in heart and in purpose.

chances are that if you do have a pre-nup, you are taking advantage of a cultural custom and putting God's stamp on it.

the delineation is made...no matter how close, one may stay and one may go.
---aka on 3/27/11


paul:

You said For the bride to have something she could keep from the groom would be in direct violation to Gods principles.
and Many scriptures point to pre-nup being wrong so you can say I'm naive if you'd like but I disagree

Could you please share some? I'm not aware of any.

You said: Relationships are founded on trust, pre-nup is lack there of.

In Biblical times, marriages were arranged, so many couples hardly knew each other. Trust develops over time.

Do you have health insurance? If so, don't you trust God to heal your infirmities? God frequently made covenents with (i.e. binding bilateral agreements). Even He didn't say "no need for a covenent - just trust me, OK?"
---StrongAxe on 3/28/11


Pre-nups give you a degree of protection in an environment where the success of a marriage is no better then head or tails in a coin toss, a good pre-nup can beat community property laws. If you don't use the resource you are being an incompetent steward of what God has given you.
---Blogger9211 on 3/27/11

Excellent Advice!

I only wish that I had been that WISE before I married. Only to get divorced later. And lose everything because of no Pre-Nup. Darn!

Hopefully, others will learn from my lack of WISDOM then.
---Augie on 3/28/11


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Pre-nups give you a degree of protection in an environment where the success of a marriage is no better then head or tails in a coin toss, a good pre-nup can beat community property laws. If you don't use the resource you are being an incompetent steward of what God has given you.
---Blogger9211 on 3/27/11


In this day and age a prenup is a good idea. Look how many on this site are divorced or contemplating divorce (I will save the "Divorce is a sin argument for others)

I do not believe that a prenup is either Biblical or nonBiblical but a civil issue between two people.
---NurseRobert on 3/27/11


StrongAxe

A dowry is the price of the Bride paid to the father of the bride.

This custom is still observed in some cultures today. My wife is from the Philippines and in certain areas there it is still prevalent today.

For the bride to have something she could keep from the groom would be in direct violation to Gods principles.

We are talking Christian principles here not culturistic observances.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/27/11


I believe that a pre-nup is in direct violation of Gods ways.

If you choose to do so then do it at your own accord.

We are taught to be equally yoked so it is our responsibility to do so and if the person does you wrong then that is God's business.

In my lifetime I have had to get a fresh start from nothing twice , I mean with 1 pay check, I was doing the right thing and God blessed it and multiplied it many times over again.

So I suppose it all boils down to if your trust is in earthly goods or in God.

Many scriptures point to pre-nup being wrong so you can say I'm naive if you'd like but I disagree.

Relationships are founded on trust, pre-nup is lack there of.
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/26/11


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Blogger9211...In a large number of states, your theory of how to have a marriage work would not work. Once married, anything one spouse commits to also commits the other spouse in many states. Many states are community property states in which anything that is purchased after the marriage vows becomes property of both spouses. What you are suggesting comes short of a Biblical marriage. Why bother to even get married if you can't trust the spouse and don't want to share everything?
---KarenD on 3/26/11


For those who think that pre-nuptial agreements were not used in biblical times, they should do some more research. Dowries and bride prices are both mentioned in the Bible. The dowry was property the bride brought into marriage that remained hers. The bride price was a contracted amount paid by the groom to the father of the bride.

In later times (still BC), it was realized that many young Jewish men could not afford the bride price at the time they wanted to get married, so the a custom was established that they would sign a marriage contract, called a Ketubah, where they would agree to pay it over time (i.e. providing for the wife while married, or paying the remainder upon divorce).
---StrongAxe on 3/26/11


My child,* if you co-sign [or assume] a loan for a friend or guarantee the debt of someone you hardly know, if you have trapped yourself by your agreement and are caught by what you said quick, get out of it if you possibly can! You have placed yourself at your friend's mercy. Now swallow your pride, go and beg to have your name erased. Don't put it off. Do it now! Don't rest until you do. Save yourself like a deer escaping from a hunter, like a bird fleeing from a net. Proverbs 6:1-6:5 (NLT)
---Josef on 3/26/11


Paul you are being incredibly naive pre-nuptials have nothing to do with scriptures never existed when scripture when scripture was written. But a divorce probability if 50 percent is am establish fact and if you do not plan for that event you are simply being foolish. You hope for a successful marriage probability is not in your favor. It is like purchasing causality insurance, you do so hoping nothing catastrophic is going to happen but you want to protect yourself if it occurs. You have less odds of a catastrophic event then your marriage failing. That is why Insurance companies don't offer marriage insurance to cover legal expenses, alimony and child support because the odds of pay out are too excessive. Pre-nuptials give you Insurance.
---Blogger9211 on 3/26/11


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I keep seeing the word pre-nuptial coming up, do Christians feel this is a viable option blessed and honored by God?
---paul on 3/26/11

I don't believe that pre-nuptial agreements are approved by God.

Some will say that pre-nuptials are "divorce planning". Better to believe that God will prevent divorce from ever happening.

I once believed that. Until I got divorced. My ex-wife got most of our assets. Including our home. Same thing happened to my friends. And we're all Bible-believing, God-fearing Christians.

How I wish that I would have had a pre-nuptial agreement BEFORE I married my ex-wife. In this sinful world, the unexpected happens. Even to Christians like me, you, or anybody else.
---Augie on 3/26/11


I keep seeing the word pre-nuptial coming up, do Christians feel this is a viable option blessed and honored by God?

And if so which scriptures indicate that it is?

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/26/11


With the general divorce rate running at 50% a good pre-nuptial agreement is definitely in order. Never ever comingle assets. Insure you have a will and keep it current as to your wishes for the disposition of your assets to the people you actually want to pass your funds and personal assets through. The last thing you want is Probate judge making those decisions instead of you. If you have a business and you want it to survive after your death or incapacitation develop a contingency plan and insure you have enough insurance to cover any estate taxes and transfer of ownership of the enterprise.
There is no substitute for competent planning and stewardship practices
---Blogger9211 on 3/25/11


Yes ... provided that her income and assets exceeded mine, and her debts were less than mine.

Seriously, when youa re married, you enter into a life-time union, and everything should be shared.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/25/11


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I realize what mans law says, I'm more interested in the different Biblical views on this matter, Thanx
God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/25/11


"Yes", is my personal opinion, and one I've shared with those who take marital counseling from me. To keep debt and income separate, including two bank accounts, is like saying, "I love you but I don't trust you." It's sort of like saying, without saying it, you expect this marriage to end in divorce.
---wivv on 3/25/11


Most of all, deal with getting into "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) Get into mutual agreeing by means of prayer so we are together with God. This is the first investment. Then see how you work things out, with this prayerful and mutual agreeing, with no pushing or forcing or charming or arguing to get what you want. And enjoy: "you will find rest for your souls," Jesus says in Matthew 11:29. And do not be legalistic about who controls or has to pay what, etc. "Be anxious for nothing" (in Philippians 4:6), don't allow "cares of this life" (Luke 21:34) to choke you and your love (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/25/11


Yes. This is what my husband and I did and we are blessed beyond our expectations financially. God will honor a husband and wife who are totally honest and open about everything.
---KarenD on 3/25/11


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Gen 2:24b ...and they shall be one flesh.
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
1Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Pro 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower [is] servant to the lender.
Mat 5:23-48
So loving your spouse consists of 'not' bearing his or her burden?
Gen 2:18b ...I will make him a helper comparable to him.
---micha9344 on 3/25/11


Cluny,

Some parents have "kidnapped" their OWN children and tried to hide in another country. Others have "stolen" ALL marital assets, especially money, and tried to hide them in foreign bank accounts when they flee the USA.

Extradition is the "Surrender" of the people involved here, and/or "transfer", to the country of origin. In this case, the USA.

I find it "Funny" how many churches, religious folks, etc. are seemingly afraid to even mention that these things are going on. EVEN AMONG CHRISTIAN COUPLES!

The Legal System is only dealing with that which the Church either CAN'T or WON'T.

Not sure WHY the lack of "Common Sense" there.
---Sag on 3/25/11


I hope you don't mean just doing nothing and being passive.
---Cluny on 3/25/11

So, Praying, and Waiting, for God's answer is "Passive" and "Doing Nothing"? I don't think so.

I agree 100% with the rest of your post. We should make use of ALL resources available to us: Spiritual, Legal, Medical, etc.

From talking with many people at my church, the real problem is that many folks are afraid to do anything! That's just an "Opportunity" for the problem to get bigger and eventually spiral Out-Of-Control.

Examples: Finances, Family Issues, Medical, etc.
---Sag on 3/25/11


\\Where possible, I believe that couples should follow God's plan for marriage and let HIM smooth out any "Bumps" along the way.
---Sag on 3/25/11\\

I hope you don't mean just doing nothing and being passive, Sag.

God expects all of us to use our common sense under ordinary circumstances, and employ whatever methods are legal and available.

Pre-nuptual agreements have always been used among Jews. What do think the SHIDDOCH is?

\\Extradition, etc.\\

Is this some use of "extradition" with which I'm unfamiliar?
---Cluny on 3/25/11


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According to the Bible, YES.

However, God's original design for marriage did not include any provision for SIN. The first couple --- Adam & Eve -- SINNED and every couple since then has had to deal with SIN in their marriage.

This is WHY many couples may decide to let the world's Legal Systems determine things. Pre-Nuptial agreements, Division of assets, Child custody arrangements, Extradition, etc. Like Cluny mentioned, each couple needs to work this out between themselves.

Where possible, I believe that couples should follow God's plan for marriage and let HIM smooth out any "Bumps" along the way.
---Sag on 3/25/11


Good question.

I think that each couple needs to work out this one for themselves.

However, the laws in different states might have provision that apply in the absence of a pre-nuptual agreement.

Let me ask you this. In the case of a married couple, is the surviving spouse responsible for debt incurred before marriage (such as education debts) by the deceased spouse?
---Cluny on 3/25/11


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