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Bad Doctrine For Good Christian

Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian? Or do I have to believe in all the right things?

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 ---leonia on 3/29/11
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**francis, your verses are very interestingly cherry picked, but you don't give the whole verse.

He and other SDAs do that all the time as their church is NOT Christ-centered but law-centered.

As much as they will tell one that the believer is saved not by the law but by grace, they really talk out of both sides of their mouths. Perhaps their forked tongues cause them to do that?
---leonia on 4/3/11


---kathr4453 on 4/3/11
Read VERY carefully:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, DO BY NATURE THE THINGS CONTAINED IN THE LAW, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

In other words, they are DOING what is in the law, without actually KNOWING that there is a law that says these things.

That being the case, and they are doing what is in the law, where is the sin to delever them to death?
---francis on 4/3/11


CraigA, please read the context of my conversation with francis before you decide to butt in with your remarks.

You are accusing me of something that you cannot even recollect and conveniently refer it to 3 months ago. According to Scripture, that's bearing false witness, which I'm sure you're excellent at.
---christan on 4/4/11


Here's a bad doctrine for Christians resulting in fruitlessness.

I see " righteousness " has been wrongly used by many.

First of all, when You receive Jesus Christ you have been imputed with the Righteousness of Jesus Christ. This is all Christians POSITION, their legal standing before God.

But many overlook that fact, believing they have to produce righteousness.

What Righteousness is GOD looking for?

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
---kathr4453 on 4/4/11


Craig, There is only one way into heaven, through Jesus Christ." He is the way, the Truth, and the life" There is only one door. All descendants of Adam are heading to hell. Unless God interferes, they will continue that way. All that God chose from the foundation of the world are born physically in sin. To the believers God Word say's:
"For we know, brethren beloved by God, that He has chosen you, for our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction" 1 Thess. 1:4,5.
God is making sure that all whom He chose from the foundation of the world will be saved. The gospel will come to them in power and in the Holy Spirit with full conviction.
---Mark_V. on 4/4/11




If it is a prayer of
of repentance brings remission-I won't judge.---char on 4/2/11

I agree.
A prayer of repentance is much like God giving us a clean white suit of clothes to wear.

Sin is like dirt.
If you go through life wearing dirty clothes, you won't notice, nor will you care if there's dirt on your clothes,
But if you go through life with clean white clothes, not only will you be able to see any dirt that gets on your clothes, you will also feel embarrassment(Shame) when you get your clothes dirty.

(Revelation 7:14)
"These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
(1John 1:7-9)
---David on 4/3/11


francis, your verses are very interestingly cherry picked, but you don't give the whole verse.

The Moral Law written in every man's conscience..

They exibited that moral law by accusing or excusing one another. If one said You stole my cow...they knew it was wrong to steal correct.

NOW we know under the Law of Moses NO ONE COULD keep the Law. And the knowledge of sin is death. Their moral conscience will be what condemns them, not save them. That is the point of Romans 1-3.

If JOB, long before the Law knew about sacrifice, as was taught Abel right from the beginning, it will be THAT Gospel man will be judged by, as Romans 1-3 also state...THEY will be judged by the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 4/3/11


Craig -Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

This event happens after the saved in Christ are already in heaven.

It is a judgment based solely on works, not grace.
---leonia on 4/3/11


//...tree..Very simple teaching and in logic//

logic comes from the Greek Word 'logos'... truth, utterance, expression.

very simple Logic indeed.

anything else is wishful and illogical.
---aka on 4/3/11


If someone who is saved without ever having heard of Jesus... eats a pork chop... will he lose his salvation?
---Donna66 on 4/2/11

NO they will not go to hell. God does not hold ANYONE accountable for things which they do not know.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
---francis on 4/3/11




If someone who is saved without ever having heard of Jesus... eats a pork chop... will he lose his salvation?
---Donna66 on 4/2/11


--I find it rather disturbing that you actually believe "people who will be saved who have never heard the gospel, or heard of Jesus/God". --Christan

Mind-boggling...

Christan, what happened to "God saving men and then later on showing them HOW he saved them by giving them the gospel"? (paraphrased. i need to find the exact words) You said something very similar to this only 3 months ago.

You appear very confused in your own beliefs.
---CraigA on 4/2/11


//The first thing you need to grow a tree, is a seed, and then that seed, must take root.
The roots must then grow and then the seed becomes a tree.
Then the tree must mature before it can give any fruit.
The more mature the tree, the more fruit it will produce.---David on 4/2/11//

Agreed.
If it is a prayer of
of repentance brings remission-I won't judge.
It is for this reason-I trust God first.
Humbled to God-He teaches.
He is a true-just-and fair God. He knows the Heart of man-He knows if they truly-love Him-all souls are His-whether one believes he exist or not. They will find out.

His light expose' darkness.

Praise Him for His grace and mercy.
---char on 4/2/11


The Athenians honored the "kingdoms" of goodness and truth as being divinely inspired. It was well understood that these "kingdoms" came from a single 'origin', but the identity remained a mystery. The Athenians had an inscription that said "TO AN UNKNOWN GOD" (Acts 17:23)

...and Paul was able to speak to them in a very non-partisan (generic) manner.

The Aeropagus still stands today with a plaque commemorating Paul's speech/sermon.

God IS NOT DOCTRINE. God IS NOT THE ABILITY TO BELIEVE SOMETHING (faith).

God is LOVE, God is LIGHT....God is THE ORIGIN.

"walk as children of light for the fruit of LIGHT is found in..."...

...all who love and honor those kingdoms.
---more_excellent_way on 4/2/11


"So there are people who will be saved who have never heard the gospel, or heard of Jesus/ God. That is the grace and mercy of God. They are still saved by the blood of Jesus Christ." francis

I find it rather disturbing that you actually believe "people who will be saved who have never heard the gospel, or heard of Jesus/God". If this is true, why are we commanded to preach the Gospel by the Lord Jesus Christ? And if they never hear the Gospel, how do they know that they are sinners and are in trouble with God?

Adding on to your rather confusing doctrine, you say "They are still saved by the blood of Jesus Christ". I'm afraid you have a real problem with your understanding.
---christan on 4/2/11


Is a Tree instantly a tree?
No.
It starts as a seed.---char on 4/1/11

Amen!!!!!
Many people don't understand that about a tree.
If they did, they would laugh at the teachers who taught "Instant Salvation".

The first thing you need to grow a tree, is a seed, and then that seed, must take root.
The roots must then grow and then the seed becomes a tree.
Then the tree must mature before it can give any fruit.
The more mature the tree, the more fruit it will produce.

Very simple teaching and in logic, proves that one can not become a good tree, (one born of God), the instant they say a prayer.
---David on 4/2/11


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16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 4/2/11


Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 4/1/11

These "ethnos" are easily found in scripture.
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 4/2/11


Strongaxe, you hit the nail on the head, great answers for New Testament believers. Certainly we should not claim all the promises of Scripture, compare what Matthew 23:29-33) has to say. Nor would we want to claim all the commands given to believers, such as the command to Abraham to sacrifice his son (Gen. 22:3) A valid practice is to ask the questions
1. Who is speaking?
2. is the teaching normative or intended for specific individuals?
3. To whom is the passage directed?
Promises and commands are usually directed to one of three groups.
1 National Israel
2. Old Testament believers
3. Or New Testament believers.
---Mark_V. on 4/2/11


AND those who don't know Jesus Christ or His word can be saved too francis??? Exactly how does that work....
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

Some will be saved, and some will be lost. this is the power of the grace and mercy of God.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 4/1/11


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**You post was so missinformed it would take FOUR post just ot correct you

I rather doubt that you are really teachable since yours is a very minority view having the least of all support either from scripture or from church history.

If you really knew how to read, you would see that there has been dozens of post trying to correct the deficiencies of your viewpoints.

let's face it, you have a real problem recognizing the truth of scripture.
---leonia on 4/1/11


Samuel:

And just what commandments would those be?

Jesus specifically mentioned two: Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor with yourself. Later, he gave another: Love one another as I have loved you. These are all important, fundamental things.

He didn't lay down a whole litany of nit-picky rules like one finds in Deutronomy. He didn't need to. When people take a handful of God's important rules, and from those, build a complex systems of hundreds of doctrines, the vast majority of those doctrines are unimportant, and can actually be stumbling blocks for doing what God REALLY wants us to do.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/11


Some essentials.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

1Jo 2:4,5 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
---Samuel on 4/1/11


Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
---francis on 4/1/11


AND those who don't know Jesus Christ or His word can be saved too francis??? Exactly how does that work....
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11


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Leonia, very good points. There are many others, many laws given to Israel are no longer valid under Grace, also traditions and customs that were illegal to do have now been fulfilled through Christ. Francis just hasn't moved forward. He is still stuck in under the Old Covenant of works.
---Mark_V. on 4/1/11


---leonia on 4/1/11
You post was so missinformed it would take FOUR post just ot correct you

What may or may nor be eaten from Romans 4 talks NOT about CLEAN or UNCLEAN, but compares HERBS with animals.
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

And as to the feasts:
1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

and MOSES LAW:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
---francis on 4/1/11


francis **Who said that these is NONE ESSENCIAL doctrines in thebible.
I would LIKE to se ONE
just 1, UNO ONE please

Read Romans 14 about what one may or may not eat, what day one may or may not observe, what festivals, etc.

You may not have read this but the early Jewish church continued in the Mosaic traditions but such was not imposed on the Gentiles. Acts 15:1

Glad to answer your questions.
---leonia on 4/1/11


",While some doctrines are very important, many are not, and will have little effect on our lives, or our ultimate outcome. For example, do you think anyone will go to hell over wearing a hat in church, or having their hair cut the wrong length? I don't think so."


OK francis, let's see the scripture you say addresses these ESSENTIAL issues.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11


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Is a Tree instantly a tree?
No.
It starts as a seed.

False doctrine-false representation of Yehovah.
Ex20:7-Deut 5:11
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
---char on 4/1/11

Gold Star Char.
Precept upon precept...line upon line. Witnesses.
Not opinion upon opinion, theory upon theory.
Making us all wary upon weary.
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from milk, and drawn from the breasts.
---Trav on 4/1/11


Who said that these is NONE ESSENCIAL doctrines in thebible.

I would LIKE to se ONE
just 1, UNO ONE please
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
---francis on 4/1/11


Tree-[ayin-Tsad] parent of two letter root-other words are from. Defined as-counsel, to give support to another as the tree trunk supports the branches and leaves.
Torah-the teaching and testimony of Yehovah.
Rom12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the [renewing of your mind], that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Renew the mind with the Word of God---this does not happen all at once.
False doctrine will be exposed'-while God as Teacher through-His Word[Yeshua'] is [seeked out]. [IF] followed [as a shadow-representation Gen1:27] We end up-right back to where the Word came from- within-God as Abba-Father.Ez 18:4,Is 45:22,Is55:11
Praise Him for protection-Grace.
---char on 4/1/11


**Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian?

Does it really depend upon whether the basic or essential doctrines of the faith are accepted while other doctrines that are not essential to ones salvation are not accepted.

The very early church was all Jewish and they continued in the traditions & customs of Moses whereas such things were not mandated to Gentile believers. Romans 14 gives the Christian a very wide berth as to individual beliefs.
---leonia on 4/1/11


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Is a Tree instantly a tree?
No.
It starts as a seed.
Is28(all)
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little, that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for [a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.]

False doctrine-false representation of Yehovah.
Ex20:7-Deut 5:11
7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
---char on 4/1/11


Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian?

Only the Good Tree, can bear Good Fruit.
The Good Trees, are those who have been born again.
They have been born again because they followed the "Narrow Road".
The Lord calls this road "Narrow", because there is only one way, there is only one Truth.

The many False teachings in the church, are called the "Broad Road".
The Lord calls it the "Broad Road" because there are many to choose from, much like a multi-laned interstate makes a Broad road.

If those who have Born Again are on the "Narrow Path", why would they follow a road, they know, will lead to destruction?
---David on 4/1/11


Leonia, when Scripture speaks, only those of God hear and understand. As Strongaxe said there is doctrines that are none essential to the Christian faith, and then there are those which are essential. The New Testament does describe a certain childlike faith as a virtue. Jesus said:
"Whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it" Mark 10:15.

However as a child begins to grow their capacity for trusting in their parents leadership begins to wane, and before long they are rebelling. Such defiance has no place in the kingdom of God. God's children are to remain forever in a childlike state trusting in their heavenly Father. The call of the New Testament is to maturity.
---Mark_V. on 4/1/11


Strongaxe, again, I don't see nonessential issues as DOCTRINE...I see them as carnal Christians judging people after the flesh. That's not doctrine, it's nonsense!
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11


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kathr4453:

Again, there are some doctrines that are important, and some that aren't.

Has God ever given you a so-violent-that-you-have-to-throw-up conviction about whether you should wear at hat in church, or about how long you should wear your hair, or about many other inconsequential things? There are many things that are sufficiently unimportant that he gives us the freedom to solve them for ourselves, without our eternal salvation hanging by a thead over every single hair we can split.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/11


"NO ONE can be saved without knowing Jesus Christ."
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11
Yeah, sure kathr4453, there go the babies, the very young, the feeble who forgot even their name, the less able who can't comprehend, the ignorant...
Wasn't you that always reminded us against "head knowledge"? Hopefuly you will not be joining the self proclaimed 'elect' crowd!
---Nana on 3/31/11


\\Satan can in fact counterfeit false doctrine,\\

Would not the counterfeit of false doctrine be TRUE doctrine?

**A Catholic, and Episcopalian, and a Jew died and went to hell. Satan asked what they did to deserve it. The Jew said "I ate pork". The Catholic said "I ate meat on Friday". The Episcopalian said "I used the wrong fork".**

But you left out the Pentecostal/Charismatic who said, "I see and and I feel it, but praise God, I ain't gonna confess it!"
---Cluny on 3/31/11


christan on 3/31/11
good question

God says to go into All the world and preach the gospel. Many people wonder "what will hapen to those who have never heard?"

The Bible's is this:
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

So there are people who will be saved who have never heard the gospel, or heard of Jesus/ God. That is the grace and mercy of God.
They are still saved by the blood of Jesus christ.
---francis on 3/31/11


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Strongaxe, I know personally God's Spirit will not endorce false doctrine or give any power to it. You can place your faith in wrong doctrine, and God will not encourage it, but do just the opposite. He'll test you over and over and over until you get it right. God will NEVER compromise with false doctrine, or put His stamp of of approval on it.

Satan can in fact counterfeit false doctrine, however we have the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and are to test the spirits.

When I was a baby christian I ate all kinds of false doctrine at first, God stuck His finger down my throat and made me throw it up. Believe me...God does not approve of false doctrine, but warns us over and over not to follow false teachers.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11


Strongaxe, although I agree with your post, I don't see those examples as "doctrine".

I see doctrine as Grace vs Law, etc.

But Grace in it's truest meaning isn't about long or short hair, jewelry vs no jewelry. It is unfortunate however many people see that as the real issues and churches split over the nonessentials.

I consider WOF an evil doctrine,just as an example.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11


"The lord does not hold it against us when we are ignorant. So we could be ignorant of some doctrines and still be saved. And not even know God or Jesus and still be saved." francis

Are you saying what I think you're saying:
1. that a man can be saved outside of Jesus Christ?
2. that he does not need to have knowledge of God and Christ after he is saved?
3. that after being saved, the Holy Spirit does not need edify him and teach him the doctrines in the Bible?
---christan on 3/31/11


francis,
I agree with this blog of yours.
---Nana on 3/31/11


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The description of the good tree and the bad tree is the same teaching as the vessel of honor and dishonor in Romans 9. Just as it was God who created everything, including the trees that bear good fruits and the trees that bear bad fruit, so is said of the man in the Scripture.

Those whom God has created to be a vessel of honor will bear good fruits and the vessel of dishonor bad fruits. The vessel of honor were created because God loved them before the foundation of the world with His promised to save them from their sins in Christ. The vessel of dishonor were created because God hated them before the foundation of the world and has fitted them for destruction.
---christan on 3/31/11


francis, those verses do not mean man is saved because he has a conscience.

It's because of his having a conscience God can Judge them..

NO ONE can be saved without knowing Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11


francis - one can be very knowledge of the Bible and its doctrines but really not be one that is born again spiritually of God.

The Pharisees were very good about following all the teachings of Moses as they conceived of it, but they were the ones that eventually drove Jesus to the Christ. (they even observed the Sabbath and following the dietary laws like some Adventists do today!)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.
---leonia on 3/31/11


kathr4453:

While some doctrines are very important, many are not, and will have little effect on our lives, or our ultimate outcome. For example, do you think anyone will go to hell over wearing a hat in church, or having their hair cut the wrong length? I don't think so.

An old joke that underscores what people consider 'important':

A Catholic, and Episcopalian, and a Jew died and went to hell. Satan asked what they did to deserve it. The Jew said "I ate pork". The Catholic said "I ate meat on Friday". The Episcopalian said "I used the wrong fork".

The Pharisees obsessed over tithing ounces of spices while forgetting more important things. We need to get our priorities straight.
---StrongAxe on 3/31/11


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The bible is clear on this:
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The lord does not hold it aganst us when we are ingornant. So we could be ignorant of some doctrines and still be saved.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

And not even know God or Jesus and still be saved.
---francis on 3/31/11


--Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian?--

Nope! if you don't believe in the doctrine of the cross, and your identification with Him, or the doctrine that those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh,....NO FRUIT will appear.

If you don't believe you are not under the law, or to Jews, divorced from the law...Romans 7...no fruit will appear.

All you'll see are fruit-cakes!

If you believe your name was picked out of a hat, and only those Jesus died for, NO FRUIT WILL APPEAR!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11


Leonia has a good point. If a person has correct doctrine but does not love others then they are still lost. As pointed out in Matthew 25.

Good fruit is the works we do not the doctrine we believe.

False doctrine can damage your witness and cause problems. So we should not disparage true doctrine. But it is love that we are judged by.
---Samuel on 3/31/11


(Matthew 7:18)
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.


The question, what makes one a good tree?
Many believe that they make themselves a good tree, and others believe that it is God who makes us good, because Only God is Good.

If one is not a good tree, then one can not produce good fruit.
(1John 3:9-10)KJV will tell you if you are a good tree or a bad tree.
---David on 3/31/11


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john 3-16 says for God so loved the world that he gave his only son,that who so ever would believe shall not perish, but have everlasting life.The only doctrine needed for salvation is belief in jesus,that he was the son of God,that he died for you,that he rose on the third day,and that we are to live thru the spirit,and be fruitful,any other doctrine is pretty much vain.
---tom2 on 3/31/11


The Bible says that Re-Marriage is Adultery. Matthew 19:9, Matthew 5:32.

Many of my friends, relatives, and aother people in every single church I've ever been to, have debated about the Adultery issue here.

I think that many of us have "Chosen For Ourselves" the following:

If SOMEONE among us wants to get "Remarried", God will "Permit" that and "Support" their decision, even though it clearly isn't HIS "Best" for them. According to the Bible.

Yet, most families want to follow God's plan for their families: One Man & One Wife, For Life. Same for their children.

At times, it seems like there are TWO sets of marriage standards in most churches today.
---Sag on 3/31/11


I agree with the answer given by---CraigA
---mima on 3/31/11


--Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian?--

YES!

As long as that doctrine doesnt teach you that Jesus was NOT God in the flesh.

Ive seen many people from many other denominations that were far more fruitful than I am. The label on your church building doesnt produce the fruit of the Spirit. Your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior and your relationship with Him does.
---CraigA on 3/30/11


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ROMANS 16:17 Now I urge you, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contray to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
---RICHARDC on 3/30/11


Donna5535 * Ruben, How do you interpret this to mean it's by listening to the leaders of the church?

Because 1 Jhn 1:5 reads "This then is the message which we (Apostles)have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

The people did not carry around the NT...

Donna5535 *It's the Holy Spirit's interpretation to us who is CORRECT.

Who determines which interpretation between you and me to be correct?

Donna5535 * "My sheep hear my voice." "and they know me and the voice of a stranger they will not follow."

AMEN, but nothing here about HS interpretation scripture to his sheep, we have to "Listen" to his voice!
---Ruben on 3/30/11


How do you know they are the wrong doctrines? Some churches will teach things that are not really doctrines, just passed along as doctrines. But regardless of the doctrine, that won't take away your Christian relation, but they may take away some of your, "fruitfulness". Keep your focus on Jesus, not on doctrines. Proper doctrines may increase your spiritual maturity, but not save you. Hebrews 12:2 "We must focus on Jesus, the source and goal of our faith."
---wivv on 3/30/11


Ruben, I believe 1 John 4:6, John is saying WE meaning the 12 apostles and other disciples who witnessed the death and resurrection, was with Jesus as He taugth them and told them to go and preach and witness f Him.

If not, then even Joseph Smith can claim to be a WE/US that must be listened to.

If anyone says anything that is not in Scripture that concerns my faith in Christ, I simply do not listen, nor am I commanded to.





---kathr4453 on 3/30/11


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StrongAx **If you look at Jesus's description of the final judgment, people are judged based on their actions (i.e. how they related to others), not on what particular doctrines they believed.

I believe you have the right answer as doctrine thro important is not the rule by which we as Christians will be judged but more how we treat others.

Love of others fulfills the law (Romans 13:9f) regardless if we believe the bread and wine actually become the actual body of Christ, or if we believe we must not eat certain things or must observe the OT Sabbath, etc.

Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.
---leonia on 3/30/11


Ruben, 1 John 4:6 says: 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us, he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
How do you interpret this to mean it's by listening to the leaders of the church?
You are wayyyy off base here..that scripture does NOT mean that at all Ruben.
It's the Holy Spirit's interpretation to us who is CORRECT. "My sheep hear my voice." "and they know me and the voice of a stranger they will not follow."
---Donna5535 on 3/30/11


Donna5535* You have to believe the Word of God and compare every doctrine to that. if it isn't in the word, it's false doctrine.

Who determines whose interpretation is correct?
Example: Jesus says in Gospel of John " My Flesh is food indeed and my Blood is drink indeed" (Jesus said in John Chapter 17, "Thy word is truth.")

Donna5535 *Jesus said, When He comes, the Holy Spirit, He will lead you and guide you into ALL truth.

But where does Jesus says that by reading the Bible the HS will guide you. In fact the Bible tell us in 1 John 4:6, it is by listening to the leaders of the church!
---Ruben on 3/30/11


1Cor.13
"Love one another"
"Charity"

All else may just be legality...
---Nana on 3/30/11


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You have to believe the Word of God and compare every doctrine to that. if it isn't in the word, it's false doctrine. Jesus said in John Chapter 17, "Thy word is truth." And in Matthew Jesus said, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" and in John Jesus said, When He comes, the Holy Spirit, He will lead you and guide you into ALL truth. Anything apart from the Word of God is truth mingled with a lie, it's not pure truth, only God's word is truth. That's what I was taught from early on in my walk.
---Donna5535 on 3/30/11


I would have to agree. If you are not convicted that a doctrine is false and you follow JESUS to the best of your knowledge there is no reason to think that you are not a true christian.

But if you find out that you follow a false doctrine and decide it is more convient or easier not to do the right thing. Then I am not so sure.

JESUS never said we are saved by doctrine.
---Samuel on 3/30/11


I don't know what doctrine you're referring to or how you know it's wrong but as CHRISTians, we follow the Word of God according to the Bible: 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Renewing of the mind from carnal to spiritual(Rom 12:2)is needed in order to understand the Word of God, which is spirit (John 6:63). You will be able to hear from the Holy Spirit to help you discern if other doctrine is of God. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
---Paul on 3/30/11


Can you believe in some wrong doctrines and still be a fruitful Christian? Or do I have to believe in all the right things?

That depends.
If you are truely deceived, meaning you grew up in a certain doctrine and did not know better, that would be OK

BUT:Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Once you know better you must repent
---francis on 3/30/11


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Only those who are born of the Holy Spirit will know what is truth. For the indwelling Spirit of God in the Christian will reject lies and can never be deceived. And how do we know this? Christ told us,

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13

It's a covenant made by Christ to His people only. And when God makes a covenant, it can never be broken because it is eternal.
---christan on 3/30/11


If you look at Jesus's description of the final judgment, people are judged based on their actions (i.e. how they related to others), not on what particular doctrines they believed.

There are many doctrines that are trivial and affect our lives little - and we can waste a lot of time fighting about them.

On the other hand, doctrines can be dangerous if they profoundly influence us in bad ways (for example, by cursing anyone who disagrees with us, by burning people we think of as heretics at the stake, by cheating unbelievers because "everything belongs to God" and we're "obviously" better stewards than the ungodly are, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 3/30/11


leonia: Why would you want to hold on to false doctrines? The truth is in the Word of God. Find it, and then find a denomination whose doctrines come closest to matching the truth of scripture.

2Co 6:14 .... what communion hath light with darkness?
---jerry6593 on 3/30/11


For Wrong doctrines, the trin rcc & her offspring daughters churches, Matt.15 v 9, which came from here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 3/30/11


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Who is to say what the right doctrines are? Who would you trust to tell you?

Who on these blogs would you trust?

And who ever would agree that they believed in wrong doctrines? Doctrines only become wrong (to you) when you no longer believe them!
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/29/11


Who is to say what bad doctrine is exactly?

Just by coming here it is evident that everyone has their own brand of belief.

Study the word, pray, fast, seek God and ask for spiritual revelation into His Word and ask men ONLY in have to situations.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 3/29/11


We are all learning.
---Cluny on 3/29/11


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