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Explain John 1:13

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Are we born again by God, or by the will of God?

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Nana calling names (man haters) or (some of these girls) only gives evidence of what is inside your heart, and it is not Christ. Thanks for showing the kind of person you are, which makes my point, the same old heart, nothing really changed. You demonstrate why we speak against man and his sin, while God never sins. Without God you can do nothing but to continue life with the old heart.
It's no wonder most of you answer the same way many times.
---Mark_V. on 4/9/11


I dont know if you mean me, because of Seq.
I go by TheSeg.
And only by friends call me Seg!

\\Since you believe a man is godly before he is justified, how is God justifying an ungodly man?
James_L on 4/8/11\\

Where did I say this?
Is it you cannot hear my words.

Then you put in something mark said.
\\Of course he is godly when he is born of God.\\
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11
But you leave out
God exercises His grace and brings them to life, gives them faith to believe and grants them repentance by convicting them of sin,

Now maybe Im just stupid?
But isnt mark saying before.
You tell me oh wise one
---TheSeg on 4/9/11


James L, I will go along with your comedy, though the word of God is not a laughing matter. If I have to teach you everything, then it must mean you don't know the gospel. When God makes you alive to Christ, He convicts you by granting you repentance, and faith to believe, gives you eyes to see and ears to hear, and a heart to perceive, (Deut. 29:4. So that you are able to make a commitment to Christ by faith. You still have to go through Christ. All that are ungodly that God saves by grace receive Justification by faith. And faith comes from God. So the ungodly by Grace receive, eyes to see, ears to hear, a heart to perceive, repentance, faith, justification, and are imputed the righteousness of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 4/9/11


Mark, my head is perfectly clear.

What makes a man (ASV) "alive together with Christ"?

Receiving the SPIRIT OF CHRIST! (Romans 8:9-11)

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his! No Spirit, no salvation! Its written right there in scripture.

When do we get that Spirit?

Eph 1:13
in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit

You have to call upon Jesus Christ for salvation! That requires repentance (Acts 2:38)

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
---CraigA on 4/9/11


Here it comes.....
---CraigA on 4/9/11




I see where youre goin with this. It seems Mark has put his foot in his mouth now. Hopefully now he can see why hypercalvinism is wrong.

Nice approach, JamesL.
---Jasheradan on 4/9/11


Seq,
I have not misunderstood Romans 4, I was asking a question to MarkV as to how his doctrine relates to verse 5.

\\Of course he is godly when he is born of God.\\
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11

Since you believe a man is godly before he is justified, how is God justifying an ungodly man?

You do agree that Romans 4:5 syas that God justifies UNgodly men, right?

I'm interested in seeing you dance around that one. I just love a good dance.
---James_L on 4/8/11


John 3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shal not perish but have eternal life"
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
It is Gods will that we are all saved. But He wiill never force his will on us.
We have to chose to BECOME ( children) of god
---dowanor on 4/8/11


This verse refers to the inclusion of non-jews as Abraham's children. Though they are not born jews in a human sense, 'God' makes them Abraham's children (i.e. chosen people). So the question should be, are we born of men or God? But if the q is about salvation by human decision or divine ordination, it's a mix of both. Without God's choice (to give Jesus) man can't choose. But now that He has done his part, each person is free to enjoy this grace.
---hop on 4/8/11


Jasheradan
If and I do mean, if! You understand it. Then and only then!

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

I tell you that he will avenge them speedily!
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

God Bless You
---TheSeg on 4/8/11




Craig, your head has not cleared. You said:

"Now THAT is not always true. Some people deny the very existence of God to escape that guilt because they have NO intention of changing."
Of course there are some like you say, that deny the very existence of God, they have not been born of God. All the lost feel that way, unless God, by His Grace, does a supernatural act in their lives and makes them alive together with Christ. Eph. 2:4,5.
You also say, "all you had to do was call on the name of the Lord" Of course, you would only be calling Him if you had faith in Him. Or else you would never call Him. And people who are lost don't call on Him, they run away from Him. Why is so hard to give the glory to God?
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11


Jesus said when he is raised up he would draw "all men" to himself.

Is this a lie?
---Jasheradan on 4/8/11


Why shouldnt I believe God over you?
Why do some believe and others do not? It is God doing!

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Is this a lie?

You tell him YOU must believe!
So now, the man walk away, more lost then before!
Because he cant!
You have condemned him, not God!

Now, some will tell you, you are condemned for condemning him!
But you did it in ignorance, you believed, you knew God.
But no, you didnt!

These kinds of things would go on forever, if he didnt put a stop to it.
Mal 4:6, Mat 11:27

Rom 14:22
Joh 7:24
---TheSeg on 4/8/11


When did it become "We love him because He made us love him"?

That is not real love.

He could raise up sons from the rocks in the ground. He wants love to come FROM us because of what He has done for us in Christ. And He is most certainly worthy of that love. Praise his holy name!
---Jasheradan on 4/8/11


You forgot or intentionally left out, "Which were born" not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"
These individuals were born of God already. They did not become born again after they believed. Again you twist the passages.
---Mark_V. on 4/7/11


No Markv, I simply posted the NIV version of that verse.

Unfortunately markv, you have a different definition for the following in scripture

GRACE
Justification
Born Again
Regeneration
Mercy


And because of that your interpretation of scripture is different than ours.

I'm gonna stick with How the Lord taught me. You're gonna stick with Calvin's interpretation. That's your CHOICE.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/11


Nana, when you used John 14:15: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Are you implying that a man can love God on his own and that will please Him?

Using this verse on it's own without cross-referencing with 1 John 4:19, does not do justice to the Scripture that unless God first love you, you can and never will love God, "We love him, because he first loved us.", even though you claim you do.

Therefore, John 14:15,21,23 is merely the fruits of God's love bearing on those who will believe in Christ. There's no way that when God love His elect, they will not love Him. It's an impossible combination.
---christan on 4/8/11


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CraigA,
Some of these girls are just men haters which explains their bent to any scripture that may in the least debase their fellow man. Someone just mentioned this Isaiah 56 and I must say WoW!
:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it, that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Son of man is just about any human being!
---Nana on 4/8/11


--I never did anything to earn my salvation.-- MarkV

Wonderful! Neither did I, Alan, Kathr or James. All we simply did was call upon the name of the Lord asking him to save us from the penalty of our sins and give us a new heart that turns us away from sin.

The only place our opinions differ is we believe that same grace is available to ALL men if they are willing to see things Gods way when the Spirit speaks to them.

--and when the person realizes his sin against God, he will come to Christ with a contrite heart asking for forgiveness.-- MarkV

Now THAT is not always true. Some people deny the very existence of God to escape that guilt because they have NO intention of changing.
---CraigA on 4/8/11


James you said mark didnt answer you.

James
\\If we are born again before we are justified, why does Romans 4:5 say that God justifies the ungodly?\\
How try to understand me, it might look like Im siding with mark.

When was Abraham justified? in uncircumcision
I can ask you when was Abraham uncircumcision? Before or after?
Is God talking here?
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

I just dont see how you can misunderstand this.
Isnt God saying his sin are/were/already covered.
The truth.

It go on to say this is upon all that believe!
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?

Thank you mark_v
---TheSeg on 4/8/11


Yeah, I couldnt leave just yet. I had to get my head together is all.

Still twisting Romans 9 I see.

Might as well throw out Romans 10 and 11. Seems noone wants to read them anymore.
---CraigA on 4/8/11


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I actually believe it is wonderful christan, that God's love for Jacob/Israel is sooo unconditional, that no matter what, God is going to KEEP HIS PROMISES TO HER. That christan, or markv or anyone else, yes even you The Seg, although you seem to say God is a liar, and does not fulfill His Promises, and won't concerning Israel( since those promises to Israel were replaced given to you now)that in the end, your god just may take his promises to you and end up giving them to the dogs and cats. YOU SAID He can do that if He wants.

So, let's all sin, and have a jolly good time, because after all, we really don't know if God is going to change His mind about saving anyone in the end. So much for unconditional love.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/11


James L, I'm also glad Craig decided to stay. I don't want him to run away from the Truth, and I like his comments that I get cornered. I have not been cornered yet. A least not from those answering against the right of God to chose whom He wills, you know why? because Scripture speaks for God not man.
Second, you ask:
"If a man is born again before he believes, then he would be godly before he believes?"

Of course he is godly when he is born of God. God exercises His grace and brings them to life, gives them faith to believe and grants them repentance by convicting them of sin, and when the person realizes his sin against God, he will come to Christ with a contrite heart asking for forgiveness. I hope you did.
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11


Craig, don't have pity on me. I'm protected by the sovereign will of God. I know my place in the sight of God. I'm a sinner while God is Holy and just. I never did anything to earn my salvation. Not even my own free will could save me. It was all of God by grace through faith. Faith given to me by God. Without that faith, I would still be lost.

"..God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" 2 Tim. 2:25,26.

"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for His sake" Phil. 1:29.
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11


John 14:
15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.
21: He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
---Nana on 4/8/11


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Craig, that is funny. I almost fell out of my chair.

By the way, I never got to tell you I'm glad you decided to stick around.
---James_L on 4/8/11


"Christan, what determines if God loves someone?" Jasheradan

Jasheradan, are you looking for a reason as to why God loves someone? In other words, are you asking if God's love is conditional, subject to what the person did that might please Him, hence causing Him to love that someone?

If you are, you're going to be very disappointed that His love is unconditional. I will not testify beyond what Paul has taught us in Romans 9:11,

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

God's love for His elect is unconditional, isn't that wonderful and gracious?
---christan on 4/8/11


He will "leave you in peace" very soon. Thats what he does when you back him into a corner.
---CraigA on 4/7/11


MarkV,
you still have not given an answer to my question:

If a man is born again before he believes, then he would be godly before he believes?

Or do you believe a man is still ungodly after he is born again?

As you have shown, none of "these guys" want to answer my question. Just Answer The Question, MarkV.

H-E-L-L-L-L-O-O-O-O-O
---James_L on 4/7/11


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Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them."
But the sick person only sees "the wrath of God" in those verses.
The wisdom that comes from God says, "Raise a child on the way to go..." Also Deut.6
What for if it makes no difference?
Mark 1:15: "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
---Nana on 4/7/11


One last thing.
God swore to Abraham and God can NEVER break that promise to Abraham and Abraham's seed, the heirs according to promise no matter what you say.
kathr4453 on 4/7/11

Are the three promises to Abraham fulfilled?
Now if they are fulfilled, then it is done, finished.
Like Christ said in Joh 17:4, Joh 19:30 and gave up the ghost!

Therefore his seeds must be as the stars in the sky.
I mean this is what God said, isn't it?
You think I'm playing a game with you?

Now go outside look at the stars, count them if you must.
But know this! Each one is in its place. Aren't they?
Now, did God put them there or are they there by themselves.
---TheSeg on 4/7/11


James L, lets look at how faulty your theology is, for you said:

"You quote John 5:24 Jesus saying the man who believes has eternal life. But you don't believe that."

Of course I do. A person believes in Christ because he is saved.
" A person does not believe in Christ in order to be saved."\
If they did believe in Christ before been saved, that would mean that every single individual believes in Christ. That would mean they are not un-believers but believers already while lost. Sorry but they are not believers. They need to be born of the Spirit and granted faith and repentance to believe. Hello?
---Mark_V. on 4/7/11


No I cant defend or challenge him.

But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets,

(This line is burned in to my heart)
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.


I asked the mountain to fall on me.
Better I were dead.
---TheSeg on 4/7/11


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Kathr, again you tood away from the word of God, words to defend your answers when you said,

"13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husbands will, but born of God."

You forgot or intentionally left out, "Which were born" not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"
These individuals were born of God already. They did not become born again after they believed. Again you twist the passages.
---Mark_V. on 4/7/11


surprise surprise, kathr4453
Am I telling you what to believe.
No I'm telling you, you look for the truth.
Don't be foolish.

God cannot look upon SIN,
Are God eyes not upon the earth, do you really believe he's blind.
If God can't see sin then you are clean in his eyes!
Walk in! You can't because you see, right!
Mat 9:13
This reminds me of something said. Maybe you can find it.

God cannot lie
2Th 2:11
Here on earth, if I make you believe a lie, you do call me a liar.

God cannot break His Eternal promises
Mal 4:5
Mal 4:6 lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

No he won't, Im pretty should he made it clear!
---TheSeg on 4/7/11


Christan, what determines if God loves someone?
---Jasheradan on 4/7/11


The Seg, you seem to take offence to Scripture that God does as He pleases in the heavens. Are you defending Him or challenging His declaration? Your description of who He "should be" is precisely what Paul declares in Romans 1:21to23

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

God declares to us who He is in the Scripture and you paint Him in another light as the above verses declares.
---christan on 4/7/11


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Jasheradan, grace precede faith. Justification by faith cannot happen if God does not demonstrate grace. In short, if God has not love you before the foundation of the world like He loved Jacob, Abel, Moses, etc, He will never show mercy upon you regardless of your claim of repentance. Therefore His mercy is an act of grace.

God is not obligated to save anyone because they claim to have repented, period. Salvation is a covenant of grace in Christ and only His elect are saved as taught by Paul. It is by grace that one is saved through faith.
---christan on 4/7/11


Well, If God cannot do everything and anything then he is not God.
No matter what you think you understand!


---TheSeg on 4/7/11

Seg, there are many things God cannot do.

God cannot look upon SIN,
God cannot lie
God cannot break His Eternal promises


SO with that, Seg, are you suggesting that after God promised you something, and you received it, that surprise surprise He can renege and take it back..Just because He's God and can?

God swore to Abraham and God can NEVER break that promise to Abraham and Abraham's seed, the heirs according to promise no matter what you say.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/11


Nice catch, Nana

Here are more that show Gods will violated.

Exodus 4:1-14

Moses is given a command to go to pharaoh and request that the children of Israel be let go. Moses says that he cant speak well. God tells him that he will help him speak. Moses still wont do it! God becomes ANGRY at Moses but alters his original plan and chooses Aaron to speak for Moses instead.

OUR DISOBEDIENCE ANGERS GOD because we are resisting his will.

Thats what his wrath is all about! Man resisting his will!
---Jasheradan on 4/7/11


Mark_V, christan and a few others!
You think God can just do whatever he wants.
You make it sound too easy for God.

Some dont believe this.
Well, If God cannot do everything and anything then he is not God.
No matter what you think you understand!

Some believe God wont or cant work in a man who does not believe.
From the beginning did man run to God or from God?

Some say God will not force a man to believe in him.
Well, if God wasnt forcing you, would you pick him?
Someone you dont even see.
Yelling, YO that a cliff!

Someone will always have another explanation.
Christ said know the truth.

But know this!
Rom 14:11 For it is written!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/7/11


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Everything God asked Moses to make, was after a pattern of things in Heaven..The Mercy seat, the blood offering, the HOLY OF HOLIES etc.

The Holy of Holies represent Heaven where God abides. ONLY the High priest could enter once a year (not without blood) to offer a sacrifice not only for his sin, but the sin of the people. NOTICE the People were not allowed to enter the Holy Of Holies.

Now Christ with his own blood entered so man could come in the presence of God. This is why one must first be JUSTIFIED by His Blood, before entering into the Holy of Holies. Heb 10 WE enter an New and Living way, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh.

There is only ONE mediator between God and Man, the Man Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/11


Matt.19:12 "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
"made themselves"?

Matt.23:4 "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers."
God did not decree them burdens.

Isa.54:15 "Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake."
God have nothing to do with that gathering!
---Nana on 4/7/11


10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husbands will, but born of God.

This must be read 10-13.

WE BECOME begotten sons, Children of God Through Jesus Christ.

We were Never sons before our belief and receiving Of Jesus Christ. Our sonship is that we are IN CHRIST, and no one was already in christ before salvation.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/11


Only God has freewill, "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." Psalm 115:3. Can anyone create something out of nothing? Because that's what He did out of His freewill.

Foolish man of dust make great boast that they have the freewill to choose God for salvation when Christ declared, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26. Only God is the decider of whom He wants to save and destroy, this we are told was decided before the foundations of the world.

"The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Proverbs 21:1 - Man has freewill? Really?
---christan on 4/7/11


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Mark_V, Im sorry brother, but your gospel is perverted. See Romans 5:1

TRUTH: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

THE LIE YOU BELIEVED: Therefore being justified by grace, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by grace into this faith wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God

Can you see it now? Open your heart.
---Jasheradan on 4/7/11


Markv, Cheezy example:

Charlie a convicted criminal wants to join the Army. The army doesn't take criminals. ( truly a picture of heaven. Heaven cannot take sinners in a sinful state)

But General Bill says, Charlie, I know someone who can clear your record as if you never had one to begin with. ( This is Christ taking our sin and imputing HIS righteousness to us)
Charlie can NOW, being Justified (justified meaning just as if I never sinned) can now be given clear enterance to Heaven.

You see, no one can come into Heaven itself except through Jesus Christ who first Justifies him before the Father.

You a sinner cannot come into the Fathers Presence in your sinful state first, and THEN be justified.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/11


My Bible teaches the calling of the Holy Spirit can be resisted.

Hebrews chapters 3 and 4.
---Jasheradan on 4/6/11


MarkV,
you still didn't answer the question.

If we look at your sequence, it would be:
ungodly man is regenerated into a godly man
godly man believes
godly man is justified

But, scripture says God justifies the UNgodly.

Are you saying that a man is still ungodly after being regenerated? That's the only way your sequence jibes with scripture

and no, a man cannot enter heaven if he is only justified. An OT saint went to Hades (the place of the dead) when he died because he was not born again until after Christ died.

You quote John 5:24 Jesus saying the man who believes has eternal life. But you don't believe that. You believe the man first has eternal life and then believes.
---James_L on 4/6/11


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"God gave us two ears to hear, two eyes to see and two hands to hold. But why did God give us only one heart?
Because he wants us to find the other one."
Anonymous quotes
---Nana on 4/6/11


James L, you also said:

"These guys believe they were Born Again first, and then Justified\\"

What your saying is, that the lost are justified first, before they are born again. So what you teach is that they can enter the kingdom of God, because they have been justified already, before they are born again. Just not possible. Jesus said,

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

Jesus also said that the Spirit gives us the hearing and the eyes to see, and only those hear His voice, His sheep.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life"
---Mark_V. on 4/6/11


James L, I'm answering for these guys.
You ask:
"
I have yet to see one of "these guys" explain: If we are born again before we are justified, why does Romans 4:5 say that God justifies the ungodly?"


1. You never asked the question before.
2. It was a good trick to only use four words.
3. you forgot to included the whole paragraph or you would have your answer.
4. "But to him who does not work (his own works) "but believes" (already believes) on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness"
"Just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works"
---Mark_V. on 4/6/11


\\Our Justification is not the Born Again Experience. One must first be Justified, declared Not Guilty. This is our Legal standing before God...\\

I agree. What God "declares" in Justification, He "creates" in Regeneration (new creation, born again)

\\These guys believe they were Born Again first, and then Justified\\

I have yet to see one of "these guys" explain: If we are born again before we are justified, why does Romans 4:5 say that God justifies the ungodly?

Are we still ungodly after being given a new heart, washed clean, created new, born from above, etc?

Good stuff, Kathr. I thought I understood what you were saying, but thought I would ask for clarification. Thanks.
---James_L on 4/5/11


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"Even God the Father did not FORCE His will on Jesus, showing teh will of God is the desire of God."
kathr4453 on 4/5/11

Very, very well put!
---Nana on 4/5/11


James & Cluny ... If you go back as I suggested to the previous blog, you may see what the Predestionalists and Freewillers were saying.

They clearly saw a difference, in that if we are born again by the will of God it is before we accept the Gift from Jesus

But if we are born again of God, it allows us to accept by our choice, and then God gives us rebirth.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/5/11


JamesL, to answer your question. Our Justification is not the Born Again Experience. One must first be Justified, declared Not Guilty. This is our Legal standing before God...

THEN we are saved By His Life...His risen Life. AKA Born Again. . Heb 13:20-21
Romans 8:11.

These guys believe they were Born Again first, and then Justified..

However God has no fellowship with sinners. THAT is why we must first be Justified BY FAITH in Jesus Christ for the forgivness of Sin.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


Now let's think this through. Jesus said, NOT my will but Thine be done...correct. However Jesus said, I can lay down my life or take it up. Jesus in anguish in the garden of Geth..said, if there be any other way...but then said, not MY will but Thine be done.

Even God the Father did not FORCE His will on Jesus, showing teh will of God is the desire of God. AND, It was Jesus who became obedient unto death.

You cannot interchange God's Will with His POWER. God will never force His Will on anyone. He has let us all know what His Will is...that all come to repentance.

ONLY Jesus, did God's will 100%. That's why we need Christ IN US, so we too, in His power can also do God's will.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


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Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Remember folks, saved IS Born Again. No one can see or enter the Kingdom unless they are Born Again...they can't enter unless their are saved. The corruptible must put on incorruptible. Ist Cor 15.

We PUT ON CHRIST

God's will from before the foundation of the World was to save sinners THROUGH Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


\\Your Born Again experience is the RISEN Christ IN YOU who is the Life Giving Spirit.\\
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


Are you referring to the ongoing born again experience, or the intial event of being born again?
---James_L on 4/5/11


The first man Adam was a life giving soul, the last man Adam is THE LIFE GIVING SPIRIT!

Your Born Again experience is the RISEN Christ IN YOU who is the Life Giving Spirit.

And It's God's will that all obey, and it's God's will no one sin...However man does not always obey, and man does sin...even Christians.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


alan8566_of_uk?
/Whereas if we are born again "of God" as our Bible translations actually say, it justifies the freewill doctrine./

Maybe there a way!
Say you believe man will is free or not
Isnt John 1:13 saying Its not from here?

You know, if I was a smart man. I might take some time and add-up some things, like.
Say 2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And lets take
Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Should not the lie be in the greater in number?
Heb 7:7
Peace!
---TheSeg on 4/5/11


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\\Are we born again by God, or by the will of God?
Clearly, it is God! Can God go one-way and his will another?\\

My point exactly, Seg.

That why I said this sounds like a quibble over words.
---Cluny on 4/5/11


Alan, I don't see how one way of wording the phrase supports the Predestination doctrine while the other way supports a Free Will doctrine. Does God do anything against His will? I can see how it may be better to say "according to His will"

Actually, scripture supports both positions on one point, and yet disagrees with both positions on one point

Predestined refers to calling and election to an inheritance (Romans 8-11), not pre-selected to go to heaven.

Being born again is purely the work of the Holy Spirit, who enlightens (convinces) us to the gospel (2Cor 4:6).

Can you provide any scripture which says anyone chose to be enlightened?
---James_L on 4/5/11


[We are] "born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the 'word of God'( WHO IS JESUS CHRIST) which lives and abides forever, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" 1Pe 1:23>Tts 3:5
---josef on 4/5/11


Notice too it says THROUGH THE WORD...

I believe the scripture above here is all I need to know.

God's will certainly is revealed in His Word...
and God is WILLING that none should perish.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


This verse is comparing the natural birth or those who are born one time, to the Christian birth or those born-again. The first birth is from man earthy, but the second birth is from God heavenly. So to answer your question the born-again are born both from God and also from God's will.
---Eloy on 4/5/11


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"And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us

by the will of God." (2 Corinthians 8:5)

So, what they did for God was done by His will. And we have Isaiah 55:11 >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth,
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
(Isaiah 55:11)

So, what God wills is accomplished by His word . . . doing what He means, better than we can understand and will, of our own selves (2 Corinthians 3:5).
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/5/11


Again, questioning the Word of God, by trying to confuse the very words of God in that passage. Because if that passage is read correctly, all those who believed "to those who believe in His name: who were born" Scripture says, who were born already, not that they became born of God." not of blood, which indicates not a physical birth, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, that pretty much closes the door of the will of man, "but of God" The Holy Spirit brings life. And those whom have life "born of God" believed.
I'm quite sure you or your sister will twist that passage also.
---Mark_V. on 4/5/11


Hebrews 6:13For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself.

You see, our faith is in God's WORD, His Promises, not His will. The sovereignty of God is in His WORD.

***The Preaching( WORD) of the CROSS is to those who perish foolishness...
---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


No Cluny ... not a silly quibble over words. It was intended to be an opportunity for the discussion in the blog "Salvation up top God or you"

Because if we are born again "of the will of God" that supports the strict predestination doctrine.

Whereas if we are born again "of God" as our Bible translations actually say, it justifies the freewill doctrine.

I wonder what the original texts say?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/5/11


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Does anyone else see a problem with both?
Since when is God-will a separate entity?

Are we born again by God, or by the will of God?
Clearly, it is God! Can God go one-way and his will another?

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1Co 1:20
I believe he has, Peace!
---TheSeg on 4/5/11


Since A whole doctrine is established over this error that includes the premeditation of God NOT WILLING salvation to many.

If salvation is based on God's WILL we would see two things.

1) no need for Jesus Christ who IS THE WORD made flesh.

2) God is not WILLING (God's WILL) for any to perish, but all to come to repentance...universal salvation

Also remember the Worlds were formed by the WORD OF GOD...not Will of God.

The WORD of God is living and powerful...

They put power behind the word WILL, Scripture puts the power behind "THE WORD".

One must surrender completely to the Lord (Romans 12:1-2) to even KNOW God's WILL.

God doesn't play bate and switch with HIS WORD!

---kathr4453 on 4/5/11


Lets start earlier...:
John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe."
Wonderful news, "all men"!
John 1:11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
What would they say next, that God blinded those to whom he promised, that they would not receive the promise?
---Nana on 4/5/11


I think this is a silly quibble over words.
---Cluny on 4/4/11


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Are we born again by God, or by the will of God? 1Jo 3:9>5:1,4,18 "Born 'of' God."

[We are] "born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the 'word of God' which lives and abides forever, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" 1Pe 1:23>Tts 3:5
---josef on 4/5/11


Start with verse 12 before going to 13, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

1. Christ is a gift from God and the Christian receives Him - there's no choosing or rejecting or John would have taught that. Did Paul choose or accepted Christ in his conversion? No.
2. After receiving Christ you become adopted as Sons and God is now our Father, Paul teaches in Galatians 4.

And this spiritual process (taught by Christ in John 3), verse 13 tells us that it is by the will of God and not man that one receives Christ, period.
---christan on 4/5/11


Well, Al . . . we are born "of God", as it says. And it is of God's will that we are born again. So, the answer could be "both". Now what you mean by "by the will of God" may not be what I mean, of course.

His will can be what He wants, but it isn't happening. And there can be His will that He is actually doing. When the Holy Spirit renews and changes us to become children of God obeying Him, this is God willing and doing.

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) This shows how much we always need to depend on and submit to God.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/4/11


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