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Heaven Has A Wall

Revelation 21 describes in detail the holy city of Heaven with high walls and 12 gates. I don't understand why Heaven needs a wall, or is it all figurative?

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 ---Geraldine on 4/6/11
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Steven, you deny the attacks you have made against the Church of Christ. Then say I twisted what you said. You are in complete denial. We were warned in Scripture of guys like you who would try their best to oppose the Church of Christ. Who would bring new idea's to separate and remove believers from His Church. Instead of trying to edify the church of Christ, you try to distory it with your comments. I'm not mad at you in the least, I feel sorry for you, that that is the destiney that is set for you.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/11


Cluny, so says the sinner to the saint. I suggest that you ask of me nothing until that time that you are prepared to accept the truth, for in doing so you will cease publicly showing your foolishness and also cease incurring sin by your dissings.
---Eloy on 6/3/11


piere-- Maybe the walls are so high because the inside is like a high-rise building with many levels. Who knows?

I don't know if the description is literal or not. Surly the Glory of the Lord would not need gold or precious stones as accessories. I wonder if this is a word picture for those of us who cannot imagine the beauty and radiance of God's presence.
---Donna66 on 6/2/11


Everything that have been shown to true servants of God and Jesus about heaven are to teach us some lessons. Interpreting "the wall" as an earthly thing may be incorrect but the meaning is that every-soul will not be able to go in there.
---Adetunji on 6/3/11


I don't know why the amazing space city will have walls which are over 216 feet high but I believe that it has to do with the "awesomeness" of our God. The city with all its precious stones, gold and shimmering beauty will be lighted with the glory of God. In its breathtaking majesty and purity it is compared to "a bride beautifully dressed for her
bridegroom."
---Piere on 5/26/11




Steveng:

Like many of the other trivial issues we end up bickering over, I didn't bring it up first, you did.

When you first started quibbling about this, I asked you the question: And instead of merely insulting me by calling me a "worldly Christian", why didn't you instead use that space to provide your own, no doubt better, explanation for why some cities have walls, and others don't?

There have since been over 14 messages of pointless bickering and you still haven't answered the question.
---StrongAxe on 4/18/11


StrongAxe: "I am not taking offense. I am taking issue"

Then just "take issue" and do not worry about what other people call you.
---Steveng on 4/17/11


Richard, I also agree with you. I think your answer has a better description then mine. Wall of salvation, or wall of those who are saved. Whatever the reason is, it is to show that only believers are in it. The New Jerusalem is made up of only believers. What I believe we are given here is not a new temple build here on earth, but the new temple is the New Jerusalem. In Rev. 20:7-9 and Eze. chapter 38 have the same major elements. Rev. 20 and Eze, 38 speak about Gog, Magog. Yet Revelations applies these things to the end of the millennium, to a global Gog and Magog. Rev. takes what originally applied to the literal Jewish nation and then applies it to a final global battle against the saints of Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/11


Steveng:

I am not taking offense. I am taking issue - a different thing. I don't scream bloody range that my feelings are hurt or my ego has been bruised. I DO, however, point out that such statements are erroneous.
---StrongAxe on 4/16/11


StrongAxe: "If someone else DOES make a personal comment, I will reply to the factual issues about the comment itself, rather than returning insult for insult."

The why are you taking offense about what I said? Isn't there a word for people who say one thing, but do another? : )
---Steveng on 4/15/11




Eloy ... York is not a modern city. The ancient city of York indeed had a wall, but very little of that remains. The modern city spreads far beyond.

There are many "walled" cities in the UK alone ... but in no case do the walls remain except as ruins, and the modern city spreads far beyond
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/15/11


\\Cluny, Do not ask of me until you truly want to accept the truth.\\

You don't actually think you have truth, do you, Eloy?

You're all the time talking about how righteous you are, yet the Bible says your righteousness is like filthy rags.
---Cluny on 4/15/11


Steveng:

When someone makes a doctrinal statement that I percieve as erroneous, I will call them on it, citing scriptures when I do to. I take issues with what they say, not with them personally. Children often divert discussions that they cannot win by turning them into personal issues. (e.g. "You didn't finish your homework" "Well, you smell!"). Adults should be above such tactics.

If someone else DOES make a personal comment, I will reply to the factual issues about the comment itself, rather than returning insult for insult.
---StrongAxe on 4/14/11


Oh, well.

StrongAxe: "Yet you still avoid the question by diverting the discussion to personal issues..,"

It's you who took offense first.

Mark_V.: "You first knock the Church as you always do..."

There you go again, taking posts out of context. This is proof that you also take others posts and verses out of context. I do not "knock" the true church only man-made churches, the denominational churches.

The both of you really need to calm down a little and take anything against you personally with a grain of salt.
---Steveng on 4/13/11


Steveng:

No. Yet you still avoid the question by diverting the discussion to personal issues, rather than the subject at hand.
---StrongAxe on 4/13/11


Steven G, you condemned Strongaxe then ask him if he was hot under the collar. Such self-righteous attitude towards those who disagree with you. You first knock the Church as you always do, because what you say is true, and what believers who gather in Christ Church say is not Truth,

"It's amazing how people have gone to church (the denominational church) all their lives, many for over thirty or forty years and having read the bible over and over, still don't know the bible."

Anyone going to Church is diluted according to you. And then you add,
The great delusion in the end times is Christians who think they are Christians, but are not."

Don't you realize you are causing sin with your tongue?
---Mark_V. on 4/13/11


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StrongAxe, a little hot under the collar?
---Steveng on 4/12/11


Steveng:

When you tell someone to read something very slowly, keeping in perspective the grammar, you imply that they don't understanding what they read. It's like telling a child "let me say this again very slowly, using small words that even you can understand". It is patronizing.

Similarly, when someone says he has read something and you reply by saying how many people have read it but not understood it, you are implying that he is one of those people.

I mentioned what was written in Revelation 21:27 (without quoting it), and to refute me, you patronizingly directed me to slowly read chapters 20-22 - which include the very verse that proved my point. So which one of us doesn't know what he is reading?
---StrongAxe on 4/12/11


StrongAxe: "And instead of merely insulting me by calling me a "worldly Christian"..,"

You wouldn't have thought of my "insulting" you if we were discussing this over a cup of coffee and a pastry at a local cafe. You took my words and wrongly applied your own feelings to them. That's one of the downfalls, and a very serious one at that, of social networking on the internet: no emotions and body language to help interpret words. This is why face-to-face communication is of the utmost importance in developing a true personal relationship. And something most of today's christians lack in developing a strong personal relationship with God, eh?
---Steveng on 4/11/11


StrongAxe: "No need to be patronizing."

I never patronize anything.

StrongAxe: "I HAVE read those often..,"

It's amazing how people have gone to church (the denominational church) all their lives, many for over thirty or forty years and having read the bible over and over, still don't know the bible. Oh, sure, they can memorize a few verses, but never getting into the heart and soul of the words of God. And in today's over educated world, many people know of and about God, but deny his power. The great delusion in the end times is christians who think they are christians, but are not.
---Steveng on 4/11/11


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Strongaxe, your last post was very good. That was the reason I mention to keep out the "Cowards" etc. There would have been no need to put that if they were gone already. Chapter 20:11 does mention the Great White Throne of Judgment and who this guys are and how Death and hades were cast into the lake of fire, and anyone not found written in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire, that was one vision. Then John saw something new, and explains what God will give to the believers and what the unbelievers have waiting for them. That is why I believe the walls were symbolic of separation, that no unbeliever would be included with the believers.
---Mark_V. on 4/11/11


WALLS - Symbolize - Salvation

ISAIAH 60,18 Violence shall no longer be heard in your land, Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders,But you shall call your walls salvation, And your gates Praise
---RICHARDC on 4/10/11

The one Richardc. I couldn't find it. Reads better every time I see it. The walls of protection around us and we open the gates to praise.

Thanks for posting....helped my search
---Trav on 4/11/11


WALLS - Symbolize - Salvation

ISAIAH 60,18 Violence shall no longer be heard in your land, Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders,But you shall call your walls salvation, And your gates Praise
---RICHARDC on 4/10/11


....instead use that space to provide your own, no doubt better, explanation for why some cities have walls, and others don't?
---StrongAxe on 4/9/11

It is a blessing of GOD to have/live/enjoy the peace/security of an unwalled city.
GOD fearing/honoring nation has no fear. One that allows/adopts or tolerates or promotes the opposite....is going to have some problems. USA comes readily to mind and is undoubtably a shadow of the verse I'm posting.

Ez 38 thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages, I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, having neither bars nor gates,
---Trav on 4/10/11


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steveng:

You said: Have you not read the scriptures? ... Read chapters 20, 21, and 22 of Revelation - very slowly,keeping in perspective the grammar.

No need to be patronizing. A valid point should stand on its merits. Personal remarks detract from strength of an argument. I HAVE read those often, and referred to 21:27 which you could not have overlooked, had you followed the same advice you gave me:

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

It doesn't say that such did not exist - it says that they will not enter. There would be no reason to say so if they didn't exist.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/11


Geraldine, I believe that the walls around the New Jerusalem are symbolic of a spiritual separation of the believers and those who have been judged already at the Great White Throne of judgment in (v. 20:11) who are the cowardly unbelieving etc of (v. 8), to show that in the New Jerusalem, no one can enter it unless they are born of God. And the gates are to allow all those saved who are continuing to enter. The New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 4/10/11


StrongAxe: "Steveng: As is mentioned in the scriptures, the walls will keep out the "undesirables"."

Have you not read the scriptures? The New Jerusalem is after satan is destroyed and the New Jerusalem is the beginning of the new eternity. Read chapters 20, 21, and 22 of Revelation - very slowly,keeping in perspective the grammar.
---Steveng on 4/9/11


Steveng:

As is mentioned in the scriptures, the walls will keep out the "undesirables".

And instead of merely insulting me by calling me a "worldly Christian", why didn't you instead use that space to provide your own, no doubt better, explanation for why some cities have walls, and others don't?
---StrongAxe on 4/9/11


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StrongAxe: "Walls are good when a city needs to stand as a fortress against foreign invaders, but they make it hard do expand, since moving the walls would be expensive."

Spoken like a true worldly christian. But how do you explian the New Jerusalem having walls for during an eternity of peace?
---Steveng on 4/8/11


You may find dozens of cities with walls, but you will find hundreds or even thousands without them. Walls are good when a city needs to stand as a fortress against foreign invaders, but they make it hard do expand, since moving the walls would be expensive. On the other hand, cities without walls facilitate growth, but make wartime defense a bit harder.

I guess it depends on whether those who found a city expect it to be spending most of its time in wartime or in peacetime.
---StrongAxe on 4/8/11


Cluny, Do not ask of me until you truly want to accept the truth. Therefore I suggest, as others have, that you look it up. There is our awesome Jerusalem in Israel, York in England, Toledo in Spain, Quebec in Canada, and so on, around the world.
---Eloy on 4/7/11


I found 34 walled cities just using Google, Cluny.

Try it
---Jasheradan on 4/7/11


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Eloy, Quebec City is the only "walled" city in North America ( founded 17th century)
---1st_cliff on 4/7/11


\\\\Cities have walls.\\

Yes today, cluny.
---Eloy on 4/6/11\\

Please give me the name of a modern city that has walls, Eloy.
---Cluny on 4/7/11


The walls around our city are not like any city boundary walls on earth, for the walls are 80 yards high, and no sinners will be able enter the gates.
---Eloy on 4/7/11


Eloy i have to disagree with you when we as Christians are caught up into the air to meet our Saviour in the rapture, we get a glorified body as our flesh will not enter into heaven. I Corinthians 15:50 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

and to those that say the new Jerusalem comes down if this is so then why does Jesus say Come up hither to his Bride..........are we up or are we down? maybe we will be upside down
---Lea on 4/6/11


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\\Cities have walls.\\

Yes today, cluny.
---Eloy on 4/6/11


\\Cities have walls.\\

Not today, Eloy.
---Cluny on 4/6/11


There shall be a new heaven and a new earth. Jesus is currently in heaven preparing a place for his people. At the end of a thousand years and when satan is defeated, the city of God shall come down from heaven in all its glory. It is as real a city as you or I. It is measured and built with certain stones. The walls of the city shall be called Salvation and the gates shall be called Praise.
---Steveng on 4/6/11


Cities have walls. The walls are built to house the inhabitants. Inside the city are the saints, and outside the city are sinners. With our heavenly bodies we can easily pass through solid walls by dematerializing and rematerializing our bodies, and Jesus showed this by passing through the shut doors to break bread with the disciples, and how doubting Thomas put his hand on Jesus' wounds which proved that his body was solid and not a phantom.
---Eloy on 4/6/11


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Cluny, Candice and Peter: All of your comments are helpful and appreciated! This vision in Revelation certainly tells us we have a most wonderful experience awaiting us.
---Geraldine on 4/6/11


A walled city is a successful city. Jerusalem had a mighty wall from the time of David till the fall to Babalyon. For approx. 100 years until Nehemiah the wall was torn down. 70 AD the wall was torn down again by the Romans. Revelation written approx 90 AD references back to the mighty days of David and the success that he had.
---Scott on 4/6/11


Good question.....

I do no tknow if the wall is figurative or literal, but I take it to be a form of sepapration (between those who are of God and those who are not)
---Peter on 4/6/11


Gods kingdom (his tent) will come down to the new earth & dwell with us on the new earth. his kingdom is like todays castles,but alot grander.So yes it has walls. it is so high & long surrounding it our minds can't even imagine it. Just look at Jeruselem & the walls that surrounded it, it'll be many times bigger & greater then that!
---candice on 4/6/11


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You've asked a good question.

Visions are given in terms that the visionary and others can understand. It's expressing spiritual, eternal, and atemporal realities in earthly terms.

The wall represents our safety in God, just as the walls of Jerusalem represented safety (for a while) for its inhabitants.

It also represents the completness-in-itself of heaven, and its complete OTHERNESS and separation from anything we will have experienced heretofore.

I don't pretend to have exhausted the symbolism. Does this help?
---Cluny on 4/6/11


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