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Baptized Same As Born Again

Is being baptized the same as being "born again" ?

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 ---mima on 4/12/11
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Can someone who believes that there spirit was sinful before they were born again, give me an example of the sins that their spirit committed when their spirit was sinful?
---David on 6/23/11


Willa, you claim to be correct also just like everyone else. And better yet, you say those who don't agree with you cannot hear. You must mean spiritual hearing. Which again you suggest I'm not saved. Suggesting you can see my heart as only God can. I say you are wrong in your interpretations of who Christ is, because I have proof that you are wrong that Christ is not only the Elohim, Adoni, Jehovah, the Son of God, the angel of Jehovah but also the only Begotten, and as Christ the Creator, but I do not know your heart are claim that I do. Only God can do that. I judge your teachings but not your salvation.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/11


Born again means sinless. Our spirit is sinless now, but our flesh is still in bondage to sin and death until resurrection
****

Well for many who follow their LYING false ministers this is truth

HOWEVER I ONLY follow Holy Scripture and that opinion is not there ...and better yet ...it is not even implied

nor mortal human being has been born again in the FLESH - not one
---Rhonda on 6/22/11


Mark,

I want to leave this with you. "hear O' Israel, YHWH our God is one YHWH", God says of Himself "I am YHWH your God","there is no God beside Me".The trinity though, YHWH(the Lord) is not a person but an essence,thing or it, made of three persons. Yet when He is spoken of in scripture it says I, he, his, him.

You make the end of life at death and the resurrection meaningless and of no value with the "essential" teaching of hell if our "soul or spirit" are in heaven at death. There is nothing to hope for, we have what our hope is, to be with our Lord.

I thank God for those who challenge the so called orthodox, if they didn't we would still be in the dark ages.
---willa5568 on 6/22/11


Mark,

which "christian essentials" are you speaking of. They changed drastically over the 2000 years of Christian history. Are you speaking of the protestant, catholic, orthodox, Anabaptist, Unitarian ,which one? All claim to be correct. Is it the majority? Then the Catholic essentials are correct because they were the majority for over 1400 years. If you are content with accepting the majorities essentials(or protestant), maybe you should examine how they were made to be essentials to begin with, violence and murder!
---willa5568 on 6/22/11




A believer is not capable of sin, but his flesh is.
---James_L on 6/21/11

In (Matthew 15:19), Jesus said the evil which produces sin, comes from out of the heart.
With this in mind, do you believe that when someone is born of God, they still have an evil heart?
---David on 6/22/11


James L, very good points, there would be no Spiritual life if we were not dead before.

Willa, what I get from your answers is that you don't believe in hell, don't believe Jesus is God, and many other believes that go against the "Essentials of the Christian faith" Those essentials we all have to agree in. We don't compromise them just because we feel different or because we were taught different. If you want to follow other believes go for it. Mormons and Jehovah Witnessess do the same. No one is telling you not to. Scripture is presented to you concerning Christ but you reject it because you don't believe that God came in the flesh. That's ok, but don't tell me that I cannot hear, I hear very well.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/11


David,

Romans 7:7-14 spiritual death.

"when the Law came" Paul wasn't around when God gave the Law to Moses, so this is when it came to Paul's understsanding.

"Sin became alive" means that Paul was not guilty before this.

"and I died" Paul was still alive physically, yet said that he died. He did not say he was "considered" dead, he said he died.

This is spiritual death when a man first understands the Law and yields to sin.

1John 3:9 a believer cannot sin (Rom 7:15-25). But 1John 1:9 makes clear that we still HAVE sin (not that we DO sin) in our flesh.

A believer is not capable of sin, but his flesh is. Unbelievers are still spiritually dead
---James_L on 6/21/11


Can you please repeat that.....


MarkV, I totally agree with your last post!
---kathr4453 on 6/21/11


What?
---aka on 6/21/11


mima,

Lazarus is from the Hebrew name Eleazar, which means "God has helped". As you can see in the parable the dogs gave more help to Lazarus than the wealthy man. But of coarse at Lazarus death God was his help were as the wealthy had none because he would rather have mens praise than God. They loved their money not God as they professed. Verse 15 points to what he is speaking of. They find this sick, poor beggar as a sinner and themselves as Godly, but God does not. It is symbolic not literal.
---willa5568 on 6/21/11




We have several denominations insist that there is no salvation apart from baptism. It is for this reason that many of them insist on infant baptism.
I believe salvation does not depend upon baptism but rather that baptism is an identifying factor and an active obedience after salvation takes place.
---mima on 6/21/11


When you say Baptized, do you mean spiritually baptized into Christ's death and resurrection, or do you mean water baptism done after as a sign we were buried with Him unto death and raised a New Creature.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/11


Lisa, you are absolutely right in your answer. I was born again and the spirit of God is in me now. I was baptized as a statement of me being saved.
---shira3877 on 6/21/11


MarkV, I totally agree with your last post!
---kathr4453 on 6/21/11


David, our spirit is sinless because the Spirit of Christ within every believer is sinless, and since we were made alive, that would tell us we were dead when we were lost. Since believers are born of the Spirit, they are forever united in the presence of Christ. Eph. 2:5 tells us, "Raised us up together, and made us sit together" The tense of "raised" and "made" indicate that these are immediate and direct results of salvation. Not only is the believer dead to sin and alive to righteousness through Christ's resurrection, but he also enjoys his Lord's exaltation and shares in His pre-eminent glory. "In the heaven places" The supernatural realm where God reigns, ( 3:10, and 6:12).
---Mark_V. on 6/21/11


Mark,

I do not suggest I know everything, though if you feel that way I could say the same of you, nor did I attack you.I said you will not hear, your ears are closed to what scripture teaches about this. You have been given scripture after scripture(I gave one on the post you are replying to) but, as all trinitarians say, "he said that as a man, he said that as God", that my brother is garbage and foolishness.

here's one of your comments on my use of scripture "Just rediculous, and attempts to misquide or deceive others". If I were to judge or attack though, you would have no justification to complain.

God is your judge, and if your salvation is in question for believing this, I believe in Gods mercy.
---willa5568 on 6/21/11


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"The Lazarus story was a parable pointed at the Pharisees because of their love for money and praise from men and not God, not literal a parable."

This statement by willa is wrong for the following reason. People in this parable are given names and therefore it is a literal parable not a generalized generic story. In other words the story is true.
---mima on 6/21/11


Willa, because I do not agree with you, you say to me,

I have not ran from your exposition but I have stopped speaking about this to someone who cannot hear. Search for yourself, Gods your judge"

You say, God is my judge, when it is you who is judging me suggesting I cannot hear, which really means that I'm not saved but you are? If you have the power to understand all there is to know about Jesus Christ, then you must be God. And anyone who opposes you cannot hear but only you can. Such garbage. That only comes from people who have a bias opinion and cannot answer with Scripture but resort to attacks on others.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/11


Mark,

My point is he says he will come again(second coming) that they will be where he is. He has not returned yet so how can anyone can with him if what he says here is true?

here is 14:28 same dialogue " You have heard me tell you, I am going away, but I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am". I know where your going. please understand, you have given nothing to prove this unbiblical and pagan/platonic teaching of God. This doctrine rejects Christianities Jewish roots and makes it idolatry. I have not ran from your exposition but I have stopped speaking about this to someone who cannot hear. Search for yourself, Gods your judge.
---willa5568 on 6/21/11


Our spirit is sinless now, but our flesh is still in bondage to sin and death until resurrection
---James_L on 6/19/11

James
You say that your spirit is sinless when you are born again, which would mean that you must also believe that your spirit was sinful, before you were born again.
Can you show me some Biblical examples of spiritual sins?
---David on 6/21/11


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JamesL,

The Lazarus story was a parable pointed at the Pharisees because of their love for money and praise from men and not God, not literal a parable.


For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive(resurrection). But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.(1Corinthians 15:21-23)

You die (stop breathing and return to the dust Gen. 3:19) then the resurrection, no sleep I agree.
(1Corinthians 15:49) absent from this body of dust and in our spiritual body is to be present with the Lord. That passage speaks about the resurrection.
---willa5568 on 6/21/11


\\I do not see scripture teach anything but death and then the resurrection, there is no in between state\\
---willa5568 on 6/19/11

That's like saying there aren't any panets besides Earth because scripture doesn't teach anything about them. There may not be a "section" that teaches on it, but...

There is nothing in scripture about taking a 1,400 year nap, either.

Lazarus and the rich man seemed fully awake in Jesus' teaching.

Paul said he wanted to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. Either Jesus did not rise, and saints are now with Him in the grave, or Jesus ascended to heaven and saints are in heaven too.

1Cor 15 is teaching a bodily death and resurrection.
---James_L on 6/20/11


Willa, I made a mistake. I reread what James said and do not agree with everything he said.
As to your answer, of John 14:2-4.
Jesus is telling the believers at that time that he was going away to prepare a place for them. He didn't just mean them but all believers. Those who are alive at His return will be taken, their bodies will be changed, prepared for heaven and those who are dead their corrupt bodies will been change and united with their spirits who are with Christ. Now read the last passage John 14:7, and you will see that Jesus said,"If you had known me you would have known My Father also, and from now on you know Him and have seen Him" you know Him and have seen Him.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


Mark,

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also."(John 14:3)

If they were still alive at Jesus' resurrection and ascension, then please explain why he would tell them he would come again so they can be where he is, i.e. the second coming, if they were already in heaven? The Kingdom of God is Paradise, read everything previous to what he says to the thief, about him being the Christ.
---willa5568 on 6/20/11


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There is a difference between justified (counted righteous) and born again (recreated righteous). OT saints were justified, but not born again. They went to Sheol or Hades (the place of the dead - Abraham's bosom). That's where the thief on the cross went. Jesus went there, preached victory, and took all those in Paradise to heaven with Him. That's why we have a great cloud of witnesses now, and Paul said to be absent from the body and present with the Lord (in heaven).

Born again means sinless. Our spirit is sinless now, but our flesh is still in bondage to sin and death until resurrection
---James_L on 6/19/11

JamesL I absolutely agree with you here too.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Mark,

wither you believe it or not does not make it any less true.
---willa5568 on 6/20/11


James L, I completely agree with your views on regeneration. The instant one exercise his faith in Christ and His works, he is immediately baptized into one body in Christ. Forever alive to Christ.
Willa wants us to believe the punctuation is wrong and that it should read, "I tell you today" What a rediculous thing to say. Why would Jesus tell him "I tell you today" if He was speaking that day? He was hearing that day, why even say that? could the thief understand He was might say it tomorrow when he was hearing that day? Just rediculous, and attempts to misquide or deceive others.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


james L,

I do not see scripture teach anything but death and then the resurrection, there is no in between state, which I am sure you do not agree with. Concerning the OT believers and Abraham's bosom, where did Abel, Noah, Seth and the other Godly men who died before Abraham rest, wait or however you would word it (I'm not sure, not trying to be sarcastic). 1Corinthians 15:45-50 agrees with Rhonda and this fact, that men are only dust and without breath we are dead.

Because the thief asked Jesus to remember him when he came in his kingdom, it is logical, since punctuation was added, it should read " I tell you today, you will..." i.e. he will be in his kingdom when he comes.
---willa5568 on 6/19/11


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Willa and Rhonda,

1Peter 1:3 says we are born again to a living hope.

While we are here we are born again.

There is a difference between justified (counted righteous) and born again (recreated righteous). OT saints were justified, but not born again. They went to Sheol or Hades (the place of the dead - Abraham's bosom). That's where the thief on the cross went. Jesus went there, preached victory, and took all those in Paradise to heaven with Him. That's why we have a great cloud of witnesses now, and Paul said to be absent from the body and present with the Lord (in heaven).

Born again means sinless. Our spirit is sinless now, but our flesh is still in bondage to sin and death until resurrection
---James_L on 6/19/11


\\just say Christ on your lips click your heels 3 times and taadaa you are now a "christian" and saved forever more\\
---Rhonda on 6/19/11

I agree with some, but disagree with some.


Most "Christians" want to be the one to make their own way to heaven, but they want it to be easy. That's where the perverted "sinner's prayer" comes in. They say a prayer ad "tada".

Conversely, others want the road to be difficult, with sacrifice, penance, restitution, etc.

Both are right, yet both are wrong, trying to reach God through self effort.


The most difficult thing is to quit trying, and rest solely on Jesus' merits.
---James_L on 6/19/11


for this reason, it says no one can see the kingdom of heaven unless they are born again and they can not enter the kingdom of heaven unless they are born of water and spirit, I find it hard to accept the idea of regeneration as we are taught to believe it. If that were so then those who were before Christ , though they believed in his coming which gave them salvation, could not enter the kingdom of heaven since he doesn't add "unless". It is certainly more to understanding this than what appears on the surface, so hopefully we can with God's grace come to understand it properly. I do tend to lean toward Rhonda though but I am not cemented there.
---willa5568 on 6/19/11


born again is a misused term in counterfeit christianity

one cannot be born again as a physical being ...and one is NOT a spiritual being in the FLESH

...hard to comprehend seeing counterfeit christianity literally teaches to just say Christ on your lips click your heels 3 times and taadaa you are now a "christian" and saved forever more

baptism is a step an outward sign we are WILLING to be LED by Him and it demonstrates you are serious about living Gods way of life ...it is a DECISION

ONLY at the resurrection when Christ establishes Gods Kingdom on Earth will all those in Christ be born again to Spirit and live through the millennium and lead with Christ ruling earth from Jerusalem
---Rhonda on 6/19/11


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When someone is born again, they are a new creation.
If someone is born again when they are baptized, how do explain all those people who are baptized and then turn away from God?
Do they become unborn again?

If someone were to be born again when they were baptized, they would be saved by their own actions, their own works.
---David on 6/18/11


The explanation Jesus gave to Nicodemus was the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration of lost souls.

"Do not marvel that I said to you, you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes, "So is everyone who is born of the Spirit"

Jesus' point was that just as the wind cannot be controlled or understood by human beings but it's effects can be witnessed, so also it is with the Holy Spirit. He cannot be controlled or understood, but the proof of His work is apparent. Where the Spirit works, there is undenialbe and unmistakable evidence.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/11


Willa, I agree some with your answer. Kathr again is teaching something very wrong. She gives 1 Peter 3:20 and says that we are saved by water, when the passage does not say that at all. The passage reads,
"Saved through water" This people had been rescued in spite of the water not because of the water. Here, water was the agent of God's judgment not the means of salvation ( Acts 2:38).
"The antitype which now saves us" is saying that 8 people were in the ark and went through the whole judgment, and yet were unharmed, is an antitype to the Christian's experience in salvation by being in Christ, the ark of one's salvation.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/11


Baptism was an outward sign of repentance (Acts 2:38,19:4) not representational of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.


Born again can be understood in different ways. In a metaphorical sense, our mind is changed and we live a new life for Gods will, which is what Peter could refer to. Were as John would be referring to the resurrection.
---willa5568 on 6/17/11


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. Being born again is getting saved, asking the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins, and come into your heart. Baptism is the first step of being obedient to the Lord after you get saved. It is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Lisa on 6/9/11

VERY WELL SAID:
Acts 2:41 Acts 2:38 Acts 8:36 Acts 9:18 Acts 10:47
---francis on 6/15/11


speaking of being born again.

Here is an interesting thing about "a new creation",which is something use to justify the common understanding, from Vincents Word Studies:
"The Rabbins used the word of a man converted from idolatry. "He who brings a foreigner and makes him a proselyte is as if he created him." When Jesus speaks to Nicodemus and mentions being born again he says you can not see or enter the kingdom of God unless you are. But considering all who have did before Christ who were not born again this speaks of the resurrection into eternal life in which we are born of the spirit. I think this is a deep subject that has not been studied very much.
---willa5568 on 6/10/11


//Lisa on 6/9/11//
Do you have any scripture for your comments "Being born again is getting saved"
"come into your heart." "Baptism is the first step of being obedient" ?
---michael_e on 6/10/11


No it is not the same. Being born again is getting saved, asking the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins, and come into your heart. Baptism is the first step of being obedient to the Lord after you get saved. It is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Lisa on 6/9/11


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Man by his own works cannot save himself. If he volunteers to get baptize, he is doing it by his own merits. And if a priest sprinkles water on your head, he is doing it by his own merits. We are not born of the Spirit by the merits of man. We are born again by God the Holy Spirit. Not by any merits committed by us.
When a person who is born of the Spirit gets baptized, he is acknowledging his commitment to Christ, after he is born of the Spirit. His faith produces good works, because it gives honor and glory to Christ for what He did for him. That is faith that produces works.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/11


1 Peter 3:20-22 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/11


Ruben,

If the water makes you clean who is pouring it, this verse refers to God? Also it does not say I will baptize you in water if that is what born of water means. Considering what you said about Adam that is a good point but I noticed someone mention how the word is referred to as water. This is also a very good point that seems to be more inline with scripture than what you or I said.
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


willa5568* Ruben,

If you insist that it is speaking of water baptism

Jesus told Nicodemas " Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? " v10, implying he should have known these truths from the OT "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:"( Ez 36:25-27). Its the water that is making the individual clean from impurities and providing a new Spirit to rest in him.



willa5568* 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the first Adam became a living being (born of water)",

When was Adam born of water?
---Ruben on 4/20/11


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Peter tells us we are Born again of the WORD of God. The WORD is also referred to as the water of the word.

Out of your bellies will flow rivers of living water. Now we know literally no water is living or literally flowing out of a person. But the Living WORD aka water of the word does flow out of those Born Again.

1st John also tells us the water blood and spirit are one. Jesus is the WORD made flesh. And remember when His side was pierced WATER flowed out with blood.

I believe water here means the Word of God and is reiterated in Peter, Born again of the Word of God.

And remember too when Moses hit the Rock and water flowed out...representing our Rock of Ages, Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/11


mima, yes I believe being baptized into Christ death and resurrection is what constitutes the New Birth. There is no New Birth without it. When I am raised up together with Him, I am a New Creature which means Born Again, or Alive IN CHRIST a New Creature.

The Bible never uses terms as alive TO Christ. However the Holy Spirit makes us alive to the sin within us, and convicts us of sin. Then I'm really alive to the Holy Spirit through the WORD of God.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/11


Ruben,

If you insist that it is speaking of water baptism then you do not continue to read what Jesus said to Nicodemus after he asked about going into his mothers womb a second time. He says "whatever is born of the flesh is flesh and whatever is born of the spirit spirit". There is no birth in water baptism, it is a sign of repentance. This passage is speaking of being born from above, as some translate it, and is referring to the resurrection. To be born again is exactly what it says. In the resurrection we will be born of the spirit.Paul also in 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the first Adam became a living being (born of water)", the last Adam BECAME a life giving spirit (born of the spirit, i.e. resurrection."
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


BAPTISM IS A PART, NOT THE WHOLE of the Christian life. Just as EVERY WORD that prceeds out of the mouth of God is to be followed, and not merely just one word nor even a part of a word. This means, Repentance must be obeyed, Praying and fasting must be obeyed, sanctification and consecration to Jesus must be obeyed, worshipping and praising must be obeyed, as well as baptism must be obeyed. Our entire life is his, it is not ours for us to pick and choose which commandments of his we will or will not obey.
---Eloy on 4/20/11


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mima * There is the possibility that Jesus meant exactly what he said.
1.You must be born of water(ever hear of anyone speaking of a pregnant woman's water breaking)

Funny, Nicodemas said the samething "Nicodemus saith unto him.. can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? "(Jhn 3:4) Did Jesus tell yes, it the water of the woman? No, he said "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."(Jhn 3:5) so yes, Jesus meant exactly what he said, notice later " After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea, and there he tarried with them, and baptized."(Jhn 3"22)
---Ruben on 4/20/11


There is the possibility that Jesus meant exactly what he said.
1.You must be born of water(ever hear of anyone speaking of a pregnant woman's water breaking)
2. To be born of the Spirit has to do with the individual's spirit being replaced by the Spirit of God. Often called being baptized in the spirit.
---mima on 4/20/11


Nana , you asked.
//John 3:5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Do we see nationality anywhere in that revelation?//
"Jesus answered" who?
(nicodemus a ruler of the Jews)
Transitional? I said the book of Acts is transitional, starting with Peter preaching to the nation of Israel, Jew only, ending with Paul our Apostle preachng to the body of Christ, Jew and Gentile alike.
---michael_e on 4/20/11


when speaking of being born of water and spirit you must see the context of what Jesus is saying. There is no reference to water baptism, he is speaking of the resurrection. Water baptism is done as a sign of repentance and accepting the teachings of the one who witness's there baptism. Notice the thief on the cross, no baptism in water. Should we, I believe so, but for the reason I stated and not to enter into the Kingdom of God.
---willa5568 on 4/19/11


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Ignatius, you said,
"The first generations as referring to Water Baptism."
Case close to the RCC and Orthodox church. But it didn't mean that. In John 3:5, Jesus referred not to literal water but to the need for 'cleansing read (Eze. 36:24-27). When water is used figuratively in the O,T. it habitually refers to renewed spiritual cleansing, especially when used in conjunction with the Spirit (Num. 19:17-19, Ps. 51:9,10, Is. 32:15, 44:3-5, 55:1-3: Jer. 2:13, Joel 2:28,29). Thus, Jesus made reference to the spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplish by the Holy Spirit through the word of God at the moment of salvation (Eph. 5:26, Titus 3:5) required for belonging to His kingdom.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/11


michael_e,
That Simon rather appears Samaritan. Who (what nationality) Crispus and Gaius were is irrelevant to the fact that Paul did baptize them.
Christ said:
John 3:5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Do we see nationality anywhere in that revelation? Transitional? I know what that is but I do not get what you say. Paul said himself that he preached Christ,
not a transitioned or improved doctrine from that revealed by Christ?
I am not offended.
---Nana on 4/19/11


Nana sorry if I offended you by answering your question.
//Why did Peter baptize with water afterwards, those on whom the Holy Ghost had fallen?//
I thought you wanted an answer.
Acts 8:18 That Simon was not a Jew.(WRONG)
Acts 10:28 Peter said, "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation,"
//Our Lord said "of water and of the Spirit".//
Rom. 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Do you really not know what transitional means?
btw check out who cripus and gaius were
---michael_e on 4/19/11


Acts 8:18 "And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,"

That Simon was not a Jew.

Paul baptized Crispus and Gaius and, did they receive a baptism of a holy spirit?
Where is that recorded and was that before or after?

Our Lord said "of water and of the Spirit".

By which principle or authority, the effectual working of the "water" can be dispensed away?

Transitional? What that means? The age of grace? As if God just began to be gracious!
---Nana on 4/19/11


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Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed (these Jews had believed that Jesus was their Messiah) were astonished (never happened before: Gentiles receiving the HS)
Then Peter commanded them to be baptized ...

the procedures changed.
compare
Acts 2:38 (Peter preaching to Jews).. `Repent, be baptized every one for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The order, repent, baptism, receive the HS.
Acts 10 Peter preaching to Gentiles? reversal.
Peter still preaching, the HS is evident. Before baptism, or repentance. After the fact Peter baptizes them."
Acts is a transitional Book. From the Jewish program and Law into God dealing with the age of grace
---michael_e on 4/19/11


Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."
Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

Why did Peter baptize with water afterwards, those on whom the Holy Ghost had fallen?
---Nana on 4/18/11


willa5568, thank you for pointing that out, it seems when someone hears the word baptism it is automatically water.
---michael_e on 4/17/11


Micheal,

I agree, and the only that matters is baptism of holy spirit,i.e. one baptism. I was just pointing out water baptism is not the only one in scipture
---willa5568 on 4/17/11


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//there are two baptisms, water and holy spirit//
Paul says one
Eph.4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism
---michael_e on 4/17/11


there are two baptisms, water and holy spirit, but they have nothing to do with being born again. To understand what born again is you have to look at the context of the scripture. for instance in John 3:3-8 Jesus is not speaking of born again as we see it but of the resurrection. Also born again in this is not the same greek word as in 1Peter 1:3, 1:23. In John it is two words gennao (pro create i.e born) and anothen (anew,from above i.e. again).But in Peter it is anagennao.It can mean born again if taken literal, but also metaphorically it means to have ones mind changed so he lives a new life.
---willa5568 on 4/16/11


"No" - they are totally different. Being, "born again" is an internal decision to accept Christ as a personal Savior while baptism is an external decision that gives witness to your internal decision. Baptism without knowing
Christ as Savor is useless.
---wivv on 4/15/11


I have a slightly different take on this subject than Leslie. You are not born again by repentence.

First time you are born, you are born of the flesh. Second time you are born again, you are born of the Spirit of God. How does that happen? When the Holy Spirit comes upon you and dwells inside of you by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...a separate act from being Born Again. It's called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, nothing to do with water baptism. When Jesus was water baptized, a dove appeared above him. That's when the Holy Spirit came down and exchanged water baptism for Holy Ghost baptism, but carnal minded man will NOT understand this. I will get criticized for this, but it's the truth.
---Donna5535 on 4/14/11


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BTW, Peter, what does "SPECIFIY" mean?
---Cluny on 4/13/11


\\I understand you dislike the 'sinners prayer' for it is not Biblical, but the idea that someone must be a Christian is only understood\\

Is it?

Of course, I suppose it depends on what one means by "Christian."
---Cluny on 4/13/11


Cluny: The sinner's prayer is a new idea (as a SPECIFIY)

But all, Peter, Paul, Philip et all, knew that the peo0ple whom the were going to baptise were Chsitians - not because they had said a speicic prayer, but becaus they know they were

I understand you dislike the 'sinners prayer' for it is not Biblical, but the idea that someone must be a Christian is only understood

Sorry if you were just pointing out someone's silly thoughs!
---Peter on 4/13/11


I've posted this elsewhere, but it's appropriate here.

Acts 2--when Peter preached at Pentecost, did he say anything about a "sinner's prayer"? No, but he did talk about WATER baptism.

When Philip met the Ethiopian eunuch who asked for WATER baptism, did Philip say anything about the sinner's prayer?

When Peter met with Cornelius, did he say anything about the sinner's prayer? However, he DID talk about water baptism.

When Paul and Silas baptized with water the Philippian jailer, was a sinner's prayer mentioned as a pre-requisite?
---Cluny on 4/12/11


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you can wear a symbol, but man cannot see your heart but by the fruit of the Spirit.

Baptism in water may or may not edify, but baptism in the Living Water will surely edify.
---aka on 4/12/11


Yes, of course.

Our Lord said, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." (John 3:3)

The first generations (1st-11th centuries) of Christians (and even Gnostics) understood this passage as referring to Water Baptism. Case Closed.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/12/11


Hi, Mima . . . Paul says "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?" (Romans 6:3) It does not say baptized into water, or buried in water. But Jesus Christ's *death* was on the cross . . . before He was buried!! (c:

This, I consider is the baptism which saves > > > getting us together with Jesus on the cross, in His love which makes us become new persons (new creations > 2 Corinthians 5:17) of love which has us lay down our old lives so we are born all over, again, this time in God's love (Romans 5:5) which has us share personally with God in His peace and submit to God as our Father and learn how to love any and all people.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/12/11


You are born again of the Spirit of God and baptized by water as a symbol of laying down the old man and walking in a newness of life.

Buried and raised into newness as Christ was buried and raised.

They go hand in hand, but are separate events.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 4/12/11


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Being baptized and being born again are TWO DIFFERENT events. You are born again by repentance (Luke 13:3, 1 John 1:9) and trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord by believing and confessing (Romans 10:9-10). Baptism is when you are emersed (put under) water out of obedience to represent you dying to your old self and resserrecting a new person - this is done AFTER salvation. Baptism is NOT salvation according to the Bible.
---Leslie on 4/12/11


No. When we accept Jesus as our saviour & confess with our mouth then we recieve the free salvation. Baptisim is the 2nd step afterwards to show an outward symbol, but doesn't need to happen the same day.
---candice on 4/12/11


Yes.

Baptismal regeneration is clearly taught in the Bible.

OTOH, nowhere does the Bible teach that one can be born again by simply saying a "sinner's prayer," as that is not in the Bible either.
---Cluny on 4/12/11


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