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Sign Of The New Covenant

If the Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant given only to the nation of Israel (Exodus 31:17), what then is the sign of the new Covenant which included Gentile believers?

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 ---leonia on 4/13/11
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I can never justify myself no matter how many Laws I keep. There is only one Justifier who does it on my behalf. Jesus does not make me perfect as if I had kept all the Law from the beginning. Rather, Jesus makes my position to God one where no Law was ever needed. Mark_Eaton

Correct the law cannot save or justify us. Only JESUS can save us. But as First John states the Commandments define sin. We by love do not want to sin. JESUS pointed out do not kill now means do not hate. So letter is a start but not the finish. Breaking the law in spirit will result in breaking in letter. They go together.
---Samuel on 4/19/11


The Old Covenant was a simple agreement that they would obey him, and he would be their God. They did not ask for the laws to be in their hearts, nor the power of the spirit to obey the law.

There was nothing wrong with the Old covenant. the fault was with the people:

The New Covenant is a simple agreement where God puts his Laws in our hearts so that we have the power of God to obey his laws. If you read BOTH covenants, you will see that the difference is The Law in our hearts verses the law written in stone.

Today Gods people have His laws written in THIER HEARTS AND MIND and they OBEY THE WHOLE LAW.
---francis on 4/19/11


francis - I think you are starting to go in the right direction when you ask yourself what a covenant is.

While there are several covenants mentioned in the Bible - the Adamic, the Noahic, the Abrahamic, the Palestinian, the (Old or Sinaitic) Mosaic, the Davidic and the covenant the church is under called the New Covenant.

As you can see some of these covenants were made with individuals, others with the nation of Israel.

Now if we could just get you to go a step further and ask which covenant was it that become obsolete? Read Hebrews 8 and give us the answer.

And then ask yourself if the law you promote is from that obsolete covenant?

---leonia on 4/19/11


Here is the NEW COVENANT:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and i will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:11
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The difference is that in the New covenant, the Law of God will be in thier hearts. AGAIN A SIMPLE VERBAL AGREEMENT THAT WE WILL BE HIS PEOPLE, AND HE WILL BE OUR GOD
---FRANCIS on 4/19/11


As the lawyer who JESUS asked stated. Luke 10:25-28
---Samuel on 4/19/11

But again, it is not the letter of the Law but the Spirit of the Law that is important. For the next verse says this lawyer wanted to justify himself which can only be done by a mind concerned with the letter of the Law.

I can never justify myself no matter how many Laws I keep. There is only one Justifier who does it on my behalf. Jesus does not make me perfect as if I had kept all the Law from the beginning. Rather, Jesus makes my position to God one where no Law was ever needed.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/11




I just realized somethng!!
Most people in here do not know wthat the new covenant and old covenants are. They think that THE LAW is the covenant itself. WRONG.

Here is the Old covenant:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will OBEY MY VOICE indeed, and KEEP MY COVENANTS, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people:
Exodus 19:6
Exodus 19:7
Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All THAT THE LORD HATH SPOKEN WE WILL DO. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

It is a simple agreement that they would OBEY God and he would be their ONLY God, and they would be his speacial people.
---francis on 4/19/11


Jesus explained that the Law and Scripture are established by the first commandments and His new commandment, Love your neighbor as yourself.

If we follow these two commandments, we fulfill the Law.
---Mark_Eaton


Actually the two commandments were the basis of fulfillment of the law was taught by Moses. As the lawyer who JESUS asked stated.
Luk 10:25-28 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.
---Samuel on 4/19/11


---David on 4/19/11
Leviticus 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

caring for the poor, is a top priority in the bible. And that should be done even on sabbath. the priest are not imune from helping the poor with their portions.
The Sabbath is a time of Joy, can you imagine anyone celebrating while others go hungry? The dissciples were not harvesting grain, they were simply eating because they were hungry. And David was fed because he was hungry.
---francis on 4/19/11


Did God ever say that he was going to change his laws in the New covenant?
---Francis on 4/18/11

We need some clarification.

Jesus is the mediator of the New covenant. He is the arbitor, the peacemaker, between God and man. Meaning, that if Jesus says it, the Father is pleased with it and so are we humans.

Understanding that, What about the Law and commandments? Does the Law still exist? Yes. Does the Law still exist in the same form? Yes. Did Jesus modify our understanding of the Law? Yes. Jesus explained that all of the Law and Scripture are established by the first commandments and His new commandment, Love your neighbor as yourself.

If we follow these two commandments, we fulfill the Law.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/11


jerry **you deny His words that not one jot or tittle of the Ten Commandment Law will change while heaven and earth remain...

It is a matter of interpretation in that I believe Christ fulfilled the mission for which He came into the world. I do not believe as you do that the New Covenant became a re-hash or a simple extension of the Old. God did not write those 600+ OT laws onto the hearts of believers.

As for the Sabbath, it merely prefigured the rest Christians have in Christ as we need not strive in our own righteousness to merit salvation. Hebrews 4.

If you do not accept the Biblical viewpoint as held by His church for centuries, that is your problem not mine.
---leonia on 4/19/11




//what then is the sign of the new Covenant which included Gentile believers?//

a very good question.
---michael_e on 4/19/11


Jerry, I believe you are not listening to what is said. No one said there was a destruction of the law. I have kept up with everyone answers and you are making things up.
The law is very much in effect right now, it is condemning those who are not in Christ. When we are all in heaven, the law will be completely fulfilled, the righteous will be with God, the unrighteous in hell for rejecting Christ and His perfect works on the Cross. No more chances for anyone. Once you die all your chances disappear.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/11


IS the BIble wrong to say that Jesus was under the law?
---francis on 4/18/11

Francis
Could you please give me your thoughts on why the actions of the Lords disciples, and David and his companions, were not against the Sabbath Law in (Matthew 12)?
---David on 4/19/11


Lee-onia: "Yes, I can see the Jesus you believe in has not really fulfilled anything, that all the tenets of the Old Covenant are still in effect."

You are deceiving yourself and others. Out of one side of your mouth you claim to believe the words of Jesus, while out of the other, you deny His words that not one jot or tittle of the Ten Commandment Law will change while heaven and earth remain. Jesus did indeed fulfill the blood sacrifice required to satisfy the requirements of the law, but not the destruction of the law itself as He clearly explained. You are therefore called "least" in heaven according to Jesus' own words.

Can you give a scripture which details the "tenets of the Old Covenant"?
---jerry6593 on 4/19/11


Francis, what I wrote had good intentions, I was not suggesting you were not saved. Let me make that clear. It was a figure of speech. I have no clue how you stand with the Lord. Nor can I see peoples hearts. all I can do is read what they write. I have no problem with you or the others who want to be under the law, Each one of us has to answer for our own actions. No righteous acts of ours will save us. God saves us by Grace through faith.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


Francis, Jesus put Himself under the law to proof that He was able to do the law and remain sinless. Why? Because no one could keep the whole law without sinning, so no one could be saved by the Law. Christ accomplished what no one could in order that we could be made righteous before God, because we were under condemnation because of the law. You persist in staying under the law, but if you do, you will have to do the letter of the law are people will come out to your house and stone you to death. That is the law. If you admit you are a sinner and in great need of Christ to accomplish what you could not, and put your faith in Christ complete works, you will be saved.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


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---David on 4/18/11
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

David I simply quoted the bible. IS the BIble wrong to say that Jesus was under the law? If so you cannot blame me
---francis on 4/18/11


francis **Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Could that not be your problem as you still believe that the New Covenant is simply a re-hash of the Old?

The Sabbath keeping & law promoting Pharisees of the time of Christ were very careful in obeying all the law, however, they were the ones who brought Jesus to the Cross. Why do you wish to identify with the chief enemies of the Lord?

2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
---leonia on 4/18/11


Jesus was still " under the Old covenant" while he lived---francis on 4/17/11

Very Good answer, Francis my friend.
But, (There's always a but, isn't there?)
Jesus said "The Son of Man is Lord over the Sabbath."
How can Man be called "Lord of the Sabbath", if Man is under Sabbath Law?

If you are Lord, you are over, not under.
---David on 4/18/11


Did God ever say that he was going to change his laws in the New covenant?

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINS, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

No he promised to put HIS LAWS into the mins of his people:

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---Francis on 4/18/11


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Here is the OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

Exodus 19:8 the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

They did NOT do all that God commanded, they broke the covenant.

So God said he would make a new one, where his laws would be in their hearts and they would OBEY HIS VOICE:

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINS, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Francis on 4/18/11


God made a covenant with israel in which he promised to put his laws in Thier minds.
Seem like some want a NEW new covenant without the Laws of God in their mins,
---francis on 4/18/11


If GOD did not write them into their minds...one can only learn and adopt.
All Israel the only one this was too.

Expose the mistranslation gentile...and the context is easily seen in verse twenty nine.
North House was divorced...gentilized if you prefer the word.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
---Trav on 4/18/11


francis -Hebrews 8:8b-9 Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, unlike the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

You chose to IGNORE the fact that the New Covenant is one that was UNLIKE the Old Covenant and believe that God wrote laws given only to the Jewish nation on the hearts of Christians.

Your exegetics of the Bible is very horribly bad because you base it all on the teachings of Ellen White.

When are you going to come to Christ for the truth?
---leonia on 4/18/11


Ask any two dedicated Christians as to their theology and you will find differences in doctrinal beliefs. However, both will confess that Christ is the way, the truth & the life, not correct theology. leonia

I agree with your points. JESUS alone saves. Correct theology does not save. It can help and we should have it. But JESUS pointed out that many Pharisees taught correctly but were hypocrites. They said one thing but did another.

Mat 23:2,3 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do, but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
---Samuel on 4/18/11


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We become the Spiritual Israel not the physical one who are under the law. We are all grafted into One Seed, Christ." Mark_V.

Spiritual Israel is correct. The law is written in our hearts by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD. But we are children of Abraham now and the whole Bible belongs to us. 2Tim3.

We look to find our moral standars in the Bible. Most all agree to this. I believe we should also find our health and Day of worship standards there also. Most today do not keep any day Holy.
---Samuel on 4/18/11


Jerry **Mat 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Yes, I can see the Jesus you believe in has not really fulfilled anything, that all the tenets of the Old Covenant are still in effect.

If "ALL" things were to be completed first, then did the church err at the Jerusalem council when they determined that Gentile converts need not become circumcised NOR observe the law of Moses?

Sorry but I believe in the words of Jesus, that He did indeed fulfill the law. Gal. 4:4-5.

Adventism denies the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
---leonia on 4/18/11


Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord, I will PUT MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God made a covenant with israel in which he promised to put his laws in Thier minds. Those who are not physical jews are GRAFTED into that very same covenant.

What I see here is a refusal by so many who want that new covenant to accept the LAWS OF GOD

Seem like some want a NEW new covenant without the Laws of God in their mins,
---francis on 4/18/11


Jerry, in your hurry to counter Leonia's answer that Gentiles are no longer under the law you gave Gal. 3:29. suggesting that everyone is still under the law because those in Christ are grafted into Israel and so they are really under the law.
If those in Christ are grafted into Israel, and Israel is not saved, why would God graft us there? To become Jews? To be a part of the seed of Abraham, his descendants? That is nonsense.
"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, and to seeds, as of many, but as of One "And to your Seed, who is Christ." ( Gal. 3:16).
We become the Spiritual Israel not the physical one who are under the law. We are all grafted into One Seed, Christ."
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


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Warwick is much like the Pharisees of the time of Christ in that they measured ones spirituality by what they believe are correct beliefs.
---leonia on 4/17/11

Well, whichever personality I'm speaking too....this one knows a pharisee when she sees one. ha.

You made his scribe and apostle mad so now you may now be presented/published/preached as trophy's before their Dr's of Law and scientific GODs.
Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
---Trav on 4/18/11


Come on Lee admit it, you once called yourself Lee, then Leej, now Leonia. Jerry noticed that independently of me. Maybe others have as well?

You wrote "Did God create the earth in 24 hours periods? Who cares...." If you honestly don't care then just believe what Scripture says? But you won't will you Lee as the opinions of men are your authority when it comes to creation, aren't they?

A wolf in sheep's clothing.
---Warwick on 4/18/11


Lee-onia: "Unlike you Adventists, I believe in the words of our Savior."

Oh Really? Let's test that theory, shall we? Here are the words of the Savior, tell us if you believe them.

Mat 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What do you think they're saying about you?
---jerry6593 on 4/18/11


Francis, what is it that you want done to make you happy? What is your argument? Lets get to the core of your answers, of all you have said, what is everyone doing wrong, compare to what you are doing right? Can you explain? I have heard you say, "you are suppose to do this, because God said so" What is it that you do that others don't? Are you saying you are without sin? Or is one sin worse then the others and you want people to follow what you do? State what you grip is.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11


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Warwick is much like the Pharisees of the time of Christ in that they measured ones spirituality by what they believe are correct beliefs.

However, while he may apply that to other Christians, he ignores the non-biblical theology as promoted by cults, especially Seventh Day Adventists.

Ask any two dedicated Christians as to their theology and you will find differences in doctrinal beliefs. However, both will confess that Christ is the way, the truth & the life, not correct theology.
---leonia on 4/17/11


**Lee why do you continue to return to these pages using different names?..., but always the same nonBiblical views and writing style.

Many of my friends call me Lee, you may if you wish.

My views are non-Biblical? The criteria is the Bible, not what your naive interpretation of the Bible.

Did God create the earth in 24 hours periods? Who cares unless you are one of those that would use such as a means of measuring others spirituality - something you probably lack. 2Co 10:12
---leonia on 4/17/11


Many people forget the four Gospels were written after the death of JESUS. His words are to us in the time of the New Covemant and show us what we are supposed to do.

In the OT if a person walking through a field took some grain and ate it. That was allowed. The Jews added to the Sabbath so as to accuse JESUS of committing a sin. JESUS did not argue about the law. But used the occasion to point out that he was acting as a Priest.

Think about it. Remeber Gentiles are now part of the commonwealth of Israel. Eph. 2:12
---Samuel on 4/17/11


---David on 4/17/11
The new covenant did not start until the death of Jesus.
Hebrews 9: 16-17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

And Jesus was still " under the Old covenant" while he lived:
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

SO at the time when Jesus and his disciples picked and ate corn, they were not under the new covenant, and if it were a sin to pick corn and eat, then he would have sinned.

The question you may want to ask is why was it not a sin for them to pick corn and eat.
---francis on 4/17/11


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Lee why do you continue to return to these pages using different names? It was Lee, then Leej, now Leonia, but always the same nonBiblical views and writing style.

Why Lee?

BTW isn't it about time to get your tax done?
---Warwick on 4/17/11


Lee-onia: "Yes, 'his people' ISRAEL. But the Gentiles are not under that old Covenant but under the New."

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Sounds like the New Covenant Christians are God's real people, Israel. You'd best catch on and get grafted in!
---jerry6593 on 4/17/11


If you believed that Jesus broke the sabbath and sinned by picking corn and eating, how can he be your saviour?
---FRANCIS on 4/16/11

Francis
And that's my point.
If the Sabbath Law was still in effect, a sin was committed, but where there is no Law, there is no transgression.(Romans 4:15)

If There is no Sabbath Law under the New Covenant of Christ, there was no transgression in (Matthew 12).
(1John 3:4)
"Sin is the transgression of the Law"

Before prohibition, it was against the law to buy alcohol.
After prohibition, it was not against the Law to buy Alcohol.
Before the New Covenant, it was against the Law to break the Sabbath.
After the New Covenant, there is no Sabbath Law to break.
---David on 4/17/11


Unlike you Adventists, I believe in the words of our Savior.
---leonia on 4/16/11

No you do not:
It would be far more accurate to say that God created everything in 6 periods as NOWHERE is there any indication as to what the duration of the days were.

Those that poop the 24 hour day thing base their belief on what is known as an ASSumption.
---leonia on 4/15/11

THE BIBLE
John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?
Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
---francis on 4/16/11


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Sorry francis - But I do not in the least fear any judgment or eternal damnation on those who are in Christ.

Unlike you Adventists, I believe in the words of our Savior.

John 5:24 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1Jo 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

It is indeed unfortunate that you are unable to see the truth but such has been the plight of many of the unsaved that have reduced the Christian faith down to some kind of philosophy.
---leonia on 4/16/11


---leonia on 4/16/11

You cannot answer mine, but I can answer yours:

What God wants is not our material Gods, but
Romans 12:1 that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And in Heaven we will serve God, BNow there is a tme in heaven for JUDGMENT which will be done by the priests of God, just as the priest did on the DAY OF ATONEMENT:

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High

Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
---francis on 4/16/11


---leonia on 4/16/11
regardless of how you think of priest, priest do ONE THINGS: SERVE GOD CONTINUALY:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

VERY simple, those who are saved will SERVE GOD FAITHFULY as the priests do

PLUS:
we are all priests

1 Peter 2:9 But ye , a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the PRAISES..
---Francis on 4/16/11


Israelites who observed the Sabbath did not enter into the rest of God because of their lack of faith.
---leonia on 4/16/11
YOU ARE GETTING WORSE

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the WILDERNESS: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, and my SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, to consumeCONSUME THEM.

The bible says 100% different from you: because of their lack of faith, they did not keep the sabbath and were consumed.
---francis on 4/16/11


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---David on 4/16/11
Here is the problem, even if you saw it, it would not make a difference to you, you would still have doubts so why should i bother?

Concerning the disciples picking and eating corn, just read what Jesus said that should be enough for you, if you do not believe what Jesus said why will you believe what I post?

I you were truely asking for answers the words of Jesus when his disciples picked corn and ate would be enough for you.

If you believed that Jesus broke the sabbath and sinned by picking corn and eating, how can he be your saviour?
---FRANCIS on 4/16/11


PROPHECY
BEAST V GOD
Revelation 14:7 WORSHP HIM that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters SAME AS IN THE 4TH COMMANDMENT. 14:9 If any man WORSHIP THE BEAST and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

Here is the sign of God
Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel FOR EVER: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. Hebrews 10:16 I will put my laws into their minds

Here is the mark of the BEAST:
Daniel 7:23 The FOURTH BEAST SHALL be the fourth kingdom upon earth, Daniel 7:25 And he shall think to CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS:
---francis on 4/16/11


francis **You ask how do I explain the Sabbath in the New Earth if the Sabbath is done away with?

Viewing the same section of Isaiah 66 - How do you explain the re-establishment of the Levitical priesthood in the New Earth?

The purpose of the Levitical priesthood was to perform the many ceremonies which pointed FORWARD to Christ.

In the presence of God in the New Earth, there would surely be no need for a restoration of the old covenant priestly function.

Isaiah 66:20-21 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots,... And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

Your theology is very problematic.
---leonia on 4/16/11


---David Let me show you even clearer:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The Sabbath is about worshiping God who created.
Psalms 124:8 Our help [is] in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

It is a biblical prophecy fulfilled why people THINK sunday is sacred:

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, Daniel 7:25.. and think to change times and laws:
---Francis on 4/16/11


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First read the 4th commandment.
---Francis on 4/16/11

Francis
Again, "Show me one New Covenant Teacher who teaches that those who do not observe the Sabbath Law, will go to hell".
If there is no one who teaches this, doesn't this tell you something?

Weren't the actions of the Lord's Disciples in (Matthew 12), the gathering of food on the Sabbath, strictly forbidden by God, under Sabbath Law? (Exodus 16)
If so, why would the Son of God, defend the actions of his Disciples, if they were breaking the Law of God?
---David on 4/16/11


Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered Gods rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Hebrews 4:4 God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Yes, and we note from the following verses that the Israelites who observed the Sabbath did not enter into the rest of God because of their lack of faith.

But who does enter into Gods rest? For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, and whoever has entered Gods rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Suggest that you read your Bible without blinders on!
---leonia on 4/16/11


---leonia on 4/16/11
You ask a LOT of questions, make a lot of statements. How do you explain the SABBATH OF THE LORD ( Not jewish sabbath since No jew created) In the New earth if the sabbath is done away with?

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

If keeping the sabbath is UNDER THE LAW why would God bring us back UNDER THE LAW in the earth made new?

ANSWER IF YOU CAN
---francis on 4/16/11


**Lee-onia: How you can quote Exodus 31:17 which says that the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people FOREVER, and then try to argue that it has ended, is beyond me.

Yes, 'his people' ISRAEL. But the Gentiles are not under that old Covenant but under the New. And there is not even a hint of a command for Gentile believers to observe the Jewish sabbath.
---leonia on 4/16/11


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---David on 4/16/11
First read the 4th commandment.

Here is what you did not see:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered Gods rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.Hebrews 4:4 God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of DISOBEDIENCE
SEE EZIEKEL 20
---Francis on 4/16/11


Lee-onia: How you can quote Exodus 31:17 which says that the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people FOREVER, and then try to argue that it has ended, is beyond me. What part of FOREVER don't you understand?

You have no clue as to the content of the Old and New Covenants. Paul quotes the Old Testament in Hebrews when he defines the Covenants as a change in the ministry of the sacrificial system - Levitical to Melchisedec. Similarly, Christs speaks of the sacrifice of His blood vs. that of animals as the New Covenant. But nowhere in any of these discourses is the Ten Commandment Law or the Sabbath changed.

You are merely seeking approval for your lawlessness!
---jerry6593 on 4/16/11


Francis
There are many verses that call out certain types of behavior which will cause a person to go to hell, but I can not find a single verse that teaches Sabbath breakers will go to Hell.
Can you show us one verse in the New Testament that teaches this?
If not, why was it not taught by the New Covenant teachers?
---David on 4/16/11


James L: "I'm not a scientist, though, so it is an assumption. Have you got evidence that the earth rotated faster or slower back then?"

I think your assumption is a good one. The earth slows about 1 second every 18 months due to tidal friction, and a "leap second" is added to our day to keep consistency with our atomic clocks and astronomical observations.

If this rate has been constant for the past 6000 years, then the length of the day at Creation would have been about 23 hours. If the earth were millions of years old, as some anti-Bible types assert, then the earth's rotation rate would have been so great that everything would long ago have been slung into space by centrifugal force.
---jerry6593 on 4/16/11


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God did not command the observance of the Sabbath to Gentile believers. ---leonia on 4/15/11
YOU MUST read THE BIBLE:

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the SON OF A STRANGER, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from HIS PEOPLE:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons SONS OF A STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

STRANGERS AND EVERYONE (NON JEWS)

Isaiah 56:7 mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE
---francis on 4/16/11


Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
---micha9344 on 4/15/11


\\NOWHERE is there any indication as to what the duration of the days were.

Those that poop the 24 hour day thing base their belief on what is known as an ASSumption.\\
---leonia on 4/15/11


I would have to disagree here. Genesis 1:5 says God called the light day and the dark night.

Then at each day there was a morning and evening (verses 5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31)

You are correct that I make an assumption. The assumption is that the earth was rotating on its axis at the same rate of speed as it does today. The speed of rotation does govern the length of a day.

I'm not a scientist, though, so it is an assumption.

Have you got evidence that the earth rotated faster of slower back then?
---James_L on 4/15/11


It would be far more accurate to say that God created everything in 6 periods as NOWHERE is there any indication as to what the duration of the days were.
---leonia on 4/15/11
THANK you for proving my point:
The Sabbath is ONLY for those who believe what GOD says. And God says:

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I was NOT there and neither were you, BUT I just have faith in God and his word, that he created in SIX DAY and Rested on the 7th.
AMEN
---francis on 4/15/11


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*everyone who desires a covenant religionship with God MUST keep the sabbath.

Correction: God did not command the observance of the Sabbath to Gentile believers. If He had, you would most certainly see it commanded in the Epistles as well as taught in the early church.

Your doctrinal stand is clearly unbiblical as well as unhistorical.
---leonia on 4/15/11


harold **The sabbath was not the sign of the old covenant, circumcision was


Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Circumcision was merely the rite of entrance into the covenant God made with Abraham.

And circumcision like the OT Sabbath was no longer required of believers.

Sorry Harold but you got that one wrong.
---leonia on 4/15/11


**How many of you believe that God created everything in 6 days?
WHY? because God said he did and gave his sign of covenant.

It would be far more accurate to say that God created everything in 6 periods as NOWHERE is there any indication as to what the duration of the days were.

Those that poop the 24 hour day thing base their belief on what is known as an ASSumption.
---leonia on 4/15/11


everyone who desires a covenant religionship with God MUST keep the sabbath.
Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

It seperates the worship of the CREATURE from worship of the CREATOR

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,and rested the seventh day:
---Francis on 4/15/11


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How many of you believe that the world will be destroyed by a flood? None?
WHY? Because God gave his word and his covenant sign.
Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud, and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

How many of you believe that God created everything in 6 days?
WHY? because God said he did and gave his sign of covenant.
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Did God stop being the creator when Jesus died?
---francis on 4/15/11


Good question: what then is the sign of the new Covenant which included Gentile believers?
Are we a covenant people?
Eph. 2:12 very plain. Our Gentile forefathers were strangers from the covenants of Promise, without hope and without God in this world. But, now in Christ Jesus we are made nigh, not by covenants, but by the finished work of the Cross, we are now in a greater relationship than the covenants, we are joint-heirs with Christ, Rom 8:14-17. The covenants were directed to the nation of Israel.(Jere. 31:31) In order to fulfil the covenants, Christ had to accomplish the atonement, His sacrifice of Himself. But, by His Grace that was extended beyond the covenants, and opened salvation to everyone, Appropriated only by Faith.
---michael_e on 4/14/11


The Eucharist.

Jesus Himself said over wine, "This is My Blood of the NEW COVENANT...."
---Cluny on 4/14/11


The sabbath was not the sign of the old covenant, circumcision was. In the New Testament Jesus teaches that it is a wicked people that must seek after signs. His death, burial, ressurection, and promised return are the only signs given today. Your faith in Him is the proof of these signs.
---Harold on 4/14/11


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God is never changing,there for to me the sabbath still remains.Jesus didn't come to abolish(get rid of)the law, but to remind people of it.Paul (formerly Saul)changed alot of things Jesus didn't say nor do. this is called PaulineChristanity which btw I recently discovred & found out that alot of churches are using this as their tradition v.s. what Jesus actually came here to teach.The new covenant was accepting Jesus as a prophet, & that he was the way to Gods kingdom unlike the false pharisees.
---candice on 4/14/11


First, the Bible does not use the word sign in connection with the New Covenant. The two candidates for the sign of the New Covenant would seem to be water baptism and the Lords Supper. But since neither one is explicitly referred to as the sign of the New Covenant, it is difficult to be dogmatic one way or the other.

Ask some Christians and they will tell you that the Cross is the sign of the New Covenant, not the Eucharist or Baptism.
---leonia on 4/14/11


FLAWED CONTEXT:

There areTWO EVERLASTING covenants NOT MADE WITH BLOOD that will last FOREVER.

the RAINBOW and the SABBATH

Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud, and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] upon the earth.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

the covenant of which you speak was made with BLOOD:

Hebrews 9:19 he took the BLOOD of calves and of goats, Hebrews 9:20 Saying, This [is] the BLOOD of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
---Francis on 4/14/11


Well, circumcision was given to Abraham, as a sign > "'and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.'" (Genesis 7:11) And it says "he received the sign of circumcision" (Romans 4:11) but had "faith which our father Abraham had while uncircumcised." And "the promise that he would be heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." (in Romans 4:13).

So, does the Bible say the Sabbath is a sign? Exodus 31:12-18 Here, it also says, "Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/14/11


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Both the Old Covenant, and the new covenant are ratified by BLOOD.
Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the BLOOD, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the BLOOD of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my BLOOD of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The blood is shed, so that IF you sin, you can be forgiven. If you break any of the commandments including the sabbath, by the blood of the new covenant, your sin can be forgiven.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
---Francis on 4/14/11


When the Scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign
"He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Mat 12:38-40 Repeated in Mat 16::4
He then said "As Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation." Luk 11:30
Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath", He is our eternal rest, and "we who have believed do enter that rest" Therefore Exd 31:17 is fulfilled in Him for all time.
---Josef on 4/14/11


From God's POV, God does not change. From our POV, it seems that He changes, but it is actually full revelation of what was always.

Rest is useful for the man and not man for the Rest.

We can understand 'old' and 'new', but who can understand full Revelation?
---aka on 4/14/11


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