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What Is Law Of Liberty

Are the ten commandments and the law of liberty the same or different?

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 ---micha9344 on 4/16/11
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Jerry6593--
//What is the reason that you personally don't commit those things?//

HEBREWS 10:16
This is the COVENANT that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

No need to keep referring back to the commandments written in stone. The believer has them written on his heart.
---Donna66 on 4/23/11


You don't actually believe the reason you don't murder or commit adultery is the 10 commandments do you
---michael_e on 4/22/11

YES
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
---francis on 4/23/11


The Law of Liberty does not give freedom to sin but does give grace when we do sin. Because God loved us and set us free from the judgement of the Law we love him and desire to keep His commandments. James tells those who show partiallty toward the rich and not all of there brothers, transgress the Law. This is the very thing Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees. Because they are not loving there neighbor as themselves they will be judged as transgressors of the law. And James tells them stop showing partiality because in doing so they are not following Christ who set us free from requiring perfection to enter His Kingdom.Liberty is not freedom to sin but freedom from condemnation if we do.
---willa5568 on 4/23/11


//It's not my place or yours to condemn.
---michael_e on 4/23/11//

Let me rephrase that. By what criterion do you condemn the sinful acts of others? I assume that you would condemn serial murder, rape, genocide, theft, etc. You do condemn these acts, don't you? Or, maybe you don't.
---jerry6593 on 4/23/11


Prisons are filled with people who
Dishonor father & mother. murder. commit adultery. steal. lie. and covet. I wonder just how they are enjoying their liberty?

On the other hand here is david who: Psalms 119:44 keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psalms 119:45 And I will WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.
---francis on 4/23/11




Francis, I just don't see what you are trying to accomplish really. Everyone who is saved still sins, you too. No person saved who believe in the works of Christ is perfected yet. The body is still sinful and it will die, it has not been redeemed. We should strive to walk in the Spirit everyday but none of us do. Not even you no matter how many Scriptures you put out from the Old Testament.
Every genuine believer walks in the flesh, (which profits nothing but sin) and in the Spirit (which gives glory and honor to God). So please stop throwing the law at everyone. You will become perfect, if you are in Christ, but it will not be in this life. So before you criticize others of their sin, try to remove the sins in your life.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/11


your sins are forgiven you past, present & future
---leonia on 4/22/11
Ezekiel 18:24
Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
---francis on 4/24/11


//By what criteria then would you condemn someone else for committing them?//

It's not my place or yours to condemn.
---michael_e on 4/23/11


//You don't actually believe the reason you don't murder or commit adultery is the 10 commandments do you
---michael_e on 4/22/11//

OK, I'll play. What is the reason that you personally don't commit those things? Your own beliefs, feelings, etc? By what criteria then would you condemn someone else for committing them? If you say that it is your "love" alone, then what about the guy who actually "loves" the one he's having an affair with, or the sicko freaks who "love" their murder victims?
---jerry6593 on 4/23/11


//Yes and how much liberty do you find in murder and adultery?
---Francis on 4/22/11//
You don't actually believe the reason you don't murder or commit adultery is the 10 commandments do you
---michael_e on 4/22/11




michael_e,
You are reading in excess of what the verses say.

Col.2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,"
The specifics are stated in verse 16: " Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
(francis, this is for you too-who judge these). Fornication, murder, blasphemy, lies, ..., not there, please show how you read them there michael?

But michael_e, Sin is not included, that is, the definition of Sin to the Gentiles in this day and age.
Of course in times pasts it was otherwise: Exodus 12:48_49.
---Nana on 4/22/11


you won't find much liberty in thou shalt not.
---michael_e on 4/22/11
Do you not understand that SIN is BONDAGE.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

And while David kept The Lord's commandments he was at liberty,Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

Yes and how much liberty do you find in murder and adultery?
---Francis on 4/22/11


you won't find much liberty in thou shalt not.

Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

I believe all still means all
---michael_e

I do not see Liberty in serving sin. Thou shalt not tells me what sin is. So that if I do that I know I am losing liberty and becoming a slave to sin. But JESUS makes us free. To serve GOD with our Minds. Romans
---Samuel on 4/22/11


cjmybad-- Forgiveness by God serves only to clear your account in Heaven.
That doesn't mean you are "off the hook" from the consequences/penalties of sin here on earth.
Heb 12:5
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If you fail to make amends to someone you hurt, that person may well become God's chastening rod. And God knows how to drive a lesson home.
---Donna66 on 4/22/11


Even if you sin, maybe unknownly, and you do not confess that, does that mean Christ is not your righteousness but that you have to be perfect all the time even to the day of your death?

Will there ever be a time when you have no sin in your life? Doubtful!

On the day of your death will you say you have no sin?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That is one reason I believe your sins are forgiven you past, present & future as what really counts is our righteousness in Christ.
---leonia on 4/22/11


you won't find much liberty in thou shalt not.

Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

I believe all still means all
---michael_e on 4/22/11


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To further prove from the Bible that future sins are not forgiven,and that only the sin that is confessed is forgiven ( this excludes sin done in ignorance),

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
---francis on 4/22/11


Now, even though I sin, they already have been forgiven and its not an issue. Paul taught against that.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/20/11
Not a chance.
You have to confess your sins, and sk for forgiveness so that they can be forgive.

If you knowinly or wilfuly sin, and refuse to ask God for forgiveness then you will not be forgiven.

John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So you are saying you will be forgiven by God - What about the people you have HURT?? Forgiveness should not mean that it is over to the rest of the us that you hurt! How can you walk away head held high and happy when you leave damage from your actions!!!
---cjmybad on 4/22/11


John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Donna66

This is a new commandment. The Old said love thy neighbor. JESUS raises it to the point of love as he loves.

A lawyer in Luke agree with what the two commandments were. The pharisees made neighbor to mean only other Pharisees. JESUS pointed out their hypocracy in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
---Samuel on 4/22/11


What day is the Sabbath, if you say Saturday, that is not true. Sabbath means rest, "six days shall you work" it does not say what day the Sabbath is. What are unclean animals we should not eat? And are we to be circumcised after our conversion? willa5568

We are to follow what Peter says true curcucision is.
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Ask any Jew what day the Sabbath means. Read the Bible and look up Sabbath. Leviticus 11 telss us not to eat dogs, cats, carrion and other animals. Oystes is on the list. It is considered one of the most dangerous things to eat today.
---Samuel on 4/22/11


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Have you ever considered that James could have been quoting from Psalms"
Psalms 119:44 So shall I KEEP THY LAW CONTINUALY for ever and ever. And I will WALK IN LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect LAW OF LIBERTY, and CONTINUETH therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
---Francis on 4/22/11


Jesus called it NEW.
John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
This would certainly be new to the disciples, who were still trying to grasp who Jesus really was. Before the crucifixion they didn't really know how MUCH He loved them.

And no matter what Moses said, the idea of "loving thy neighbor as thyself" was never considered part of the LAW by later generations. The pharisees followed the LAW religiously, but showed little indication of loving their neighbors.
But Jesus said All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
---Donna66 on 4/21/11


---willa5568 on 4/21/11
The sabbath is a specific day. The Bible says the 7th day is the sabbath of the lord. Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: SO God worked six days and rested on the 7th and blessed the 7th day. People who do not care to keep the sabbath do not realize that whether or not they keep it holy, it is blessed. By the way you cannot just take any day in seven and make it your sabath. Reason being there is a blessing and sanctification placed in the TIME PERIOD of the 7th day by God, this blessing is not placed on any other day.

Ezekiel 46:1 The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the SIX WORKING DAYS, but ON THE SABBATH it shall be opened,
---francis on 4/22/11


Donna: I disagree. The commandment proscribes the bearing of false witness (like courtroom false testimony) - not the deception of evil forces. The prophet Elisha lied to the Assyrian army about where he was leading them after God had blinded them. Lying to the enemy is the very essence of successful military action, and does not violate the Commandment.
---jerry6593 on 4/22/11


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Donna66 You did not have to repeat it I tried to show you that this was not new, Jesus was simply REPEATING what was alredy wrtten in the Old Testement:

After Moses had read all the Laws he summed them up like this:
Deuteronomy 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: ---francis on 4/21/11
---francis on 4/21/11


Francis,

What day is the Sabbath, if you say Saturday, that is not true. Sabbath means rest, "six days shall you work" it does not say what day the Sabbath is. What are unclean animals we should not eat? And are we to be circumcised after our conversion? If you apply these things to us not keeping the ten commandments, there not there. You should listen to James and Peter in Acts 15:6-29
---willa5568 on 4/21/11


Francis-- Let me repeat: Matt 22:37-40 Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. (underlining mine)
---Donna66 on 4/21/11


jerr6593--

//Donna: Is it possible to keep the spirit of the Law without keeping the letter of it?//

Occasionally, yes. During WWll Corrie ten Boom debated with herself about whether to tell the Gestapo the truth about the Jews she was hiding... or to deceive them and save those whose lives were in danger.

The first option would be following the "letter" of the law, the second would be following the "spirit" of the law.

However it is easy and very common for people to follow the letter of the law, but NOT the spirit, as did the pharisees.
---Donna66 on 4/21/11


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Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Continual sin or future sin is not covered, unless a man has lost his will or he never received the knowledge of the truth.
---Nana on 4/21/11


francis--You admit that "The penalty for your sins have (has) already been paid". If so, what is left to be paid?
Did Jesus purchase your redemption piece-meal? On revolving credit maybe? No intent to be irreverent here, but he point is, you don't need to go back and ask for what has already been paid for...what is already yours.

Repentance is the Christian's natural (according to the new nature) response when they realized they have sinned. (if it is not, one is not a Christian!) But life is such that I may thoughtlessly sin, but only later, when my spirit is receptive, will the the Holy Spirit show me my sin. I need have no fear that my sin was unforgiven during that time I was preoccupied with other things.
---Donna66 on 4/21/11


my sins are already forgiven even before I commit them. ---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11

I don't think so. The penalty for your sins have already been paid. But to have you sins forgiven you must confess them and ask for forgiveness.
-----
And with that you are saying that if I die having some sin unconfessed, my fate is the fires of hell?

Yes, we can see that Adventists do not believe salvation is a gift received by grace but something one must merit.

And the righteousness of the Christian is not that of Christ but something of our own doing. 1 Cor. 1:30, Romans 1:17

Shame on you for such a distortion of the gospel messsage. The day you die you will have your sin. 1 John 1:8
---leonia on 4/21/11


I don't think so.
---francis on 4/21/11

Sorry Francis, but 2 Pet 2:20-21 does not speak about believers who stumble. Not at all. It talks about false teachers who are described as: denying Christ, unrighteous, unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, and slaves of corruption. They are compared to false prophets of the OT. They were never believers. They were only enlightenend by the "knowledge" of the truth and they placed no faith in Christ.

What say you about this verse if I can lose my standing with God?

Eph 2:6 "and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"

How can I be seated with Christ if I can sin and lose my standing?
---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11


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I agree with---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11 and I remind the reader that God's ways are not our ways.
---mima on 4/21/11


Here is the worse part of this:
Christ died for our sins, professing christians today are doing the very sins that placed Jesus on the cross, eating what is unclean, not keeping the sabbath, men with men, and claiming that they have freedom in Christ to do these things.

This is an old arguement:
Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

All that is happening is a rejection of the grace which is in christ when we sin and deny we sin
---francis on 4/21/11


BACK to the question at hand:

I would say that James was quoting from Psalms and infact referring to the 10 commandments:
Psalms 119:44 So SHALL I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever. Psalms 119:45 And I will WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.
Psalms 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
Psalms 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
---francis on 4/21/11


my sins are already forgiven even before I commit them. ---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11

I don't think so. The penalty for your sins have already been paid. But to have you sins forgiven you must confess them and ask for forgiveness.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
---francis on 4/21/11


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it seem to me that you are saying that at one point in time christ forgave all your sins, so that you never have to confess sins again
---francis on 4/20/11

We do have to confess our sins, clearly in Scripture. You used 1 John in your response, there are others.

However, if we combine 1 John with this Scripture...

Heb 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified"

We see that Christ perfected all who are sanctified way back on the cross. If I have been perfected way back then, my sins are already forgiven even before I commit them. The act of confessing them is for my benefit, to keep me humble and surrendered to His will. Not for actual forgiveness.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11


Donna: Is it possible to keep the spirit of the Law without keeping the letter of it? As a mental exercise, try to conceive of commiting murder or adultery while keeping the spirit of the Law.


---jerry6593 on 4/21/11


Francis -- I should have said Jesus re-defined the LAW, not sin. If you follow the law as Jesus defined it, you will not sin. --Donna66 on 4/20/11

Ok where is Jesus re-definition of the Law. Please do not tell me these: Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
---francis on 4/21/11


Francis -- I should have said Jesus re-defined the LAW, not sin. If you follow the law as Jesus defined it, you will not sin.
The difference is that the pharisees, following the law even to tithing mint and rue, missed compassion and generosity which is much more important than the letter of the law. Jesus pointed this out to them. And His summary of the law expresses it.

Paul put it this way: 2Cr 3:5b-6 but our sufficiency is of God,
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
---Donna66 on 4/20/11


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Now, even though I sin, they already have been forgiven and its not an issue. Paul taught against that.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/20/11
Not a chance.
You have to confess your sins, and sk for forgiveness so that they can be forgive.

If you knowinly or wilfuly sin, and refuse to ask God for forgiveness then you will not be forgiven.

John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I hope I did not get you wrong, it seem to me that you are saying that at one point in time christ forgave all your sins, so that you never have to confess sins again or that you will always be forgiven. Is that what you are saying?
---francis on 4/20/11


\\What Ws jesus definition of sin, and how does it differ from waht was before Him?
---francis on 4/20/11\\

There are several times in the Gospel when Jesus said, "You have heard....." quoting something from the OT, and would continue, "But **I** say unto you...."

Does this count?
---Cluny on 4/20/11


How does God go from hating an act of sin to having his son killed because of that act, then finding it acceptable?
---francis on 4/20/11

I think you are struggling with what sins are forgiven by God or rather, when does God forgive my sins?

If God forgives my sins to a point in time, then I would need to be forgiven over and over. I could forget to ask forgiveness and then be lost. There is such teaching and the need for absolution at death.

I choose to believe that God forgives all my sins when I place faith on Christ, all my sins, past, present, and future. Now, even though I sin, they already have been forgiven and its not an issue. Not that we want everyone to sin because we have grace. Paul taught against that.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/20/11


Since the law is fulfilled by love of neighbor (Romans 13:9-10), sin really has become more of a refusal to address the needs of ones neighbor than of a mere trespass of established law.

This also makes sense in that the Pharisees were very careful to obey the law externally but inwardedly that had no compassion or love for the needs of their neighbors.

It is really a pity for those who believe themselves to be Christians yet will not lift a finger to help a neighbor in need of basic necessities.
---leonia on 4/20/11


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Francis-- God did not change His mind about sin. But Jesus, the Son of God, redefined sin for those of us who live in an age of Grace. ---Donna66 on 4/20/11

What Ws jesus definition of sin, and how does it differ from waht was before Him?
---francis on 4/20/11


Francis-- God did not change His mind about sin. But Jesus, the Son of God, redefined sin for those of us who live in an age of Grace. It was an expert in the law who asked Jesus, Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?

Matt 22:37-40 Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. (underlining mine)

In no way does God ever find sin acceptable. And someone who says (or believes) they are set free TO sin, is simply not a Christian, no matter what else they say!
---Donna66 on 4/20/11


Francis,

I personally never said keeping the ten commandments brings bondage. The question was are they the same as the Law of liberty. Romans 7:5-25, the Law is good and Holy but the problem is it arouses our nature of sin. But if you read chapter 8 Christ has set us free (liberty) and we are not trying to please God through keeping the Ten Commandments, but instead through faith in Jesus we are putting to death the sinful desires by the spirit of God. You CANNOT be free from judgement by keeping the Ten Commandments, it is the Law of Liberty that sets us free from this judgement, as James said you will be judged by the Law if you do not live by faith (with works) in Jesus Christ.
---willa5568 on 4/20/11


**It is very sad to see professing Christians say that if we obey the ten commandments that we are in bondage:

I believe the bondage comes in when you become much like the Pharisees of the time of Jesus. They obeyed the 10 commandments as well as ALL the law very carefully, but their religion was not of the heart and they ignored the needs of those around them.

And like Adventists today, they used such externalism to judge the spirituality of others. "You are a bad bad boy if you worship the Lord with all your heart, mind & soul, and love your neighbor but do not do the OT sabbath"!
---leonia on 4/20/11


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It is very sad to see professing christians say that if we obey the ten ommandments that we are in bondage:
What does God says:

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psalms 119:46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
Psalms 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

does that sound like bondage to anyone? If you cannot see how keeping the ten commandments gives liberty...
---francis on 4/20/11


What has the OT Sabbath to do with interpersonal relations?
I ... agree with principle involved in having communal worship on a set day of the week such as we find in the Christian Sabbbath. leonia

Dear Leonia You answer part of your question in the point about communal worship. I agree and point out this applies to Sabbath also. Where we avoid external to concentrate on internal.

Secondly the purpose of the Sabbath is about a relationship with the Creator. We remeber He is the creator and our saviour and spend a day with him and family.

It is very difficult to have a relationship with someone you do not spend time with. The Sabbath we do not spend on the world that is but the one we will spend eterity with.
---Samuel on 4/20/11


---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/
Nice post. very nice. Now lets look at something else:
You said "We have been set free from sin.." That is true, but what many seem to be implying is "we are set free TO sin." The problem is that some people think that what was called a sin in the books of the OT or under the old covenant, is now accectable to God in the books of the NT and new covenant.
I cannot see God accepting sin under any circumstances.
How does God go from hating an act of sin to having his son killed because of that act, then finding it acceptable? The other problem is that some believe that if I do not commit adultery, or do not kill ( obey all ten commandments) that i am under the law. how can that be?

---francis on 4/20/11


Murder: Exd 20:13 = Death: Lev 24:17,21
Theft: Ex:20:15 = Death: Exd 21:16
Adultery: Exd 20:10 = Death: Lev 20:10
Other laws to be put to death-Exd 21:12,15,17,29, 22:19, 31:14,15, 35:2, Lev 20:2,9-13,15-16,27, 24:16
Ten commandments: knowledge of sin and death, justice without mercy, all passive commands, for the unrighteous, siffnecked and gainsaying.
The True and Perfect Royal law of Liberty (love and forgiveness) are words of life, full of grace and truth, requires action not just faith, and is revealed by the Spirit dwelling in the sons of God, heirs with Christ.
Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, the Life, Faithful and True, the Word made flesh, full of grace and truth, the Light, the Wisdom and the Power of God.
---micha9344 on 4/19/11


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James starts in 2:1 telling to not show partiality as those who have faith in Jesus . He is speaking to those who show partiality toward the rich, and if you read vs. 9 he tells them if you do you commit sin are are judge by the Law. And he tells them if you fail in one point of the Law you are guilty of it all. He starts this dialoge with the faith in Jesus Christ and and ends it in verse 26 speaking of faith without works. He is telling them because you are only loving the rich you are not truly following Christ. If you are, show it by your works and live as those who will be judged by the Law of Liberty, (he who has been forgiven much loves much)if not you will be shown no mercy, as those who will be judged by the Law (ten commandments).
---willa5568 on 4/19/11


leonia,

I agree 100% with this last statement of yours. While even the whole 'law and the prophets' is to 'do unto others as we would have them do unto us', indubitably as social beings and social awareness dictate, we must declare those details which make for peace and harmony between the people. That is the reason Jesus spelled details for entering unto life and, as francis says below: "Paul also says: "

Sadly we fail to see eye to eye. There are too many libertines on both sides who deny each other's freedoms.
---Nana on 4/19/11


**Many are Moral laws. Down through history the church has taught all of the Ten Commandmets are Moral laws.

But are not moral laws those laws that deal with human or interpersonal relations?

What has the OT Sabbath to do with interpersonal relations? It is basically an external observance.

I do, however, agree with principle involved in having communal worship on a set day of the week such as we find in the Christian Sabbbath. Hebrews 10:25
---leonia on 4/19/11


\\After all it is from the Ten James took his list.\\

Did you ever notice in the NT, whenever the Decalogue is mentioned, there is always ONE conspicuous by its absence?
---Cluny on 4/19/11


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Other scriptures says we will be judged by the Laws which points out sin.
---francis on 4/18/11

I do not argue with the fact that the Law will judge us all. We will all stand before Jesus and give an accounting, according to the Law. I am not forgetting that "the wages of sin is death" and sin is punishable by death from the Law.

But the rest of the story is "the free gift of God is eternal life thru Jesus Christ". The rest of the story is grace and liberty. We have been set free from sin and its bondage. We have been set free into liberty and have been set free from the Law, which punishes sin.

To say we are still under Law is to say that Christ death was in vain and of no effect.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/11


James and paul are much too alike for the Law of Liberty not to be 10 commandments.
Romans 2:12 shall be judged by the law,
James 2:12 shall be be judged by the law of liberty.

James and DAVID have too much in common for this not to be ten commanements
Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein,
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect,
---francis on 4/19/11


keeping the Law does not in anyway justify us because we have rightousness apart from the Law. Does that mean we should not press toward perfection, as Paul said "God forbid, how shall we who are dead to sin live in it any longer". And it is only faith that pleases God but without works is your faith genuine. Remember Christ said you shall know his disciples by there fruit. Liberty means we are free from condemnation when we sin, but if we continue to live in sin we shall be judge by the Law. Living in sin and committing sin are very different.
---willa5568 on 4/19/11


I agree some laws from the Old Testament do not pertain to us. Such as those laws on how the goverment was run. How the Temple was run.

Some apply in principal. Do not move the boundry stones. We do not use stones today but we should not try to steal from our neighbor. Help the poor.

Some are good to keep us healthy. Wash your hands before you eat. Do not eat food that is unhealthy for you.

Many are Moral laws. Down through history the church has taught all of the Ten Commandmets are Moral laws. The Sabbath looks to Creation, today resting in JEUSS Heb. 4 and to heaven. It is also part of the Ten Commandments. So to me it applies. After all it is from the Ten James took his list.
---Samuel on 4/19/11


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While we are not justified by keeping the law, do we not still use the law as a guidance as to what pleases God?

Of course, I can agree with Cluny that some laws are not applicable such as wearing a garment made of 2 materials, sleeping with your wife during her menstrual period, planting 2 kinds of seeds on your farm, lighting a fire on the Sabbath etc. - all Old Covenant and obsolete laws that either pertained only to Israel or were fulfilled as types in the ministry of Christ.
---leonia on 4/19/11


Paul speaks of justifacation by faith and not keeping the Law
---willa5568 on 4/18/11
I think you meant to say:
"Paul speaks of justifacation by faith, and not BY keeping the Law." If you meant and not keeping the law then you are saying that paul is advocating adultery, lust, murder ETC.

Paul also says:
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another,
Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:
Ephesians 5:3 covetousness, let it not be once named among you,
You get the point: All ten commandments are repeated in the NT.
---francis on 4/19/11


read all of Romans 3 and notice how James goes into faith. What faith is he speaking of but those who "hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul speaks of justifacation by faith and not keeping the Law and James says if we truly "hold to the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ" then there will be works, full filling the Law by love.
I say again we are gilty of sin if we do not keep the whole law. But we who are believer should live as those who are judged by the law of liberty (there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, for the law of the spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death). Also as I said before read Romans 7-8.
---willa5568 on 4/18/11


\\James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is GUILTY of all. James 2:11 Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW of liberty\\

The law also forbids wearing blended fabrics and lighting fires on the Sabbath--something you apparently do.

So what good does it do you to observe the Sabbath partly and not eat pork?

You STILL violate the law.

\\How do we judge people if not BY THE LAW?\\

Jesus said, "Judge not, and you will not be judged."

I'll go by what He said.
---Cluny on 4/18/11


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James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is GUILTY of all. James 2:11 Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW of liberty

How do we judge people if not BY THE LAW?

If you commit adultery ot kill, you are guilty and will be judged by the law.
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,

SCRIPTURE INTERPRETING SCRIPTURE:
Other scriptures says we will be judged by the Laws which points out sin.
---francis on 4/18/11


James is speaking to those who show partiality but are saying they have faith in Jesus Christ.We are brought forth by "the word of truth" (1:18, Ephesians 1:13) and in vs.21 he tells us to receive it with meekness. He goes on saying to be doers not just hearers (parable of the sower) and in vs. 25 mentions the perfect law and law of liberty that he who is a doer looks into. Notice he is still speaking of doing what he had said previously. In vs. 3:12 we are to act and speak as those who are judge by the law of liberty. Notice the word liberty, what does it mean but freedom. There is no freedom in the commandments, read Romans chapters 7-8.
---willa5568 on 4/17/11


"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2) So, I can see that the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus can be the law of liberty, giving us liberty from how the laws of the sinful nature can bring us to death of loving and joy and peace and having "rest for your souls" (in Matthew 11:29). We are alive to God, making us free to be better than alive to and attentive to commandments of just outward acting. We are spiritual, now, with God.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/17/11


There was no grace in the Ten commadments when they were written on stone. But now they are by the New Covenant written on our heart. It is our joy to keep the commandments. Why becasue we are saved. The Commandments of JESUS are not grevious.

I have not troble not killing but I have to fight against hate. Why because in the New Covenant the law not only forbids the act but the emotion and thought.

That is what JESUS teaches.
---Samuel on 4/17/11


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"---willa5568 on 4/17/11
I see you annalysis, but only James uses the phrase Law of Liberty, he also uses royal law and perfect law. I have two questions:
1: Based on what is writen in JAMES, tell us some details of the law of liberty and how it differs from the ten commandments.

2: How does James " perfect law" Differ from the law of the lord which is also perfect:
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect,
---francis on 4/17/11


"but now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the Law" (Romans 2:21). Gods Law (10 Commandments)is perfect but it does not save but reveals sin and death i.e. "the law of sin and death" as Paul called it ("the sting of death is sin, the power of sin is the law-1Corinthians 15:56).The law of liberty is perfect in a different way it gives grace "shall we sin that grace may abound, God forbid, how shall we who are dead to sin live in it any longer". There is no grace in the 10 commandments!
---willa5568 on 4/17/11


Only ONE author in the entire bible uses the phrase LAW OF LIBERT

Same author is the only one to use ROYAL LAW

In the entire context the only commandments mentioned are these taken from the ten commandments.

So in the context of which James is speaking, being the only author to use royal law and law of liberty, and only making reference to the commandments found in the ten commandments, how do you conclude otherwise?
---francis on 4/16/11


Romans 2:12 and as many as have SINNEDin the law shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW,

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judJUDGED BY THE LAW of liberty.

common phrase:JUDGED BY THE LAW

WHAT LAW?
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit ADULTERY, said also, Do not KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a TRANGRESSOR of THE LAW.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer.., Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law.. but the doers of the law

SAME THING JAMES USED "WORD" PAUL USES "lAW"

same law, James calls it Law of Liberty, paul calls it LAW. The same law pionts out sin and is perfect.
---francis on 4/16/11


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Look at James and Paul:
James 2:8 If ye FULFIL the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well:

James 2:11 For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath FULFILLED the law.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, Thou shalt NOT KILL, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.
---FRANCIS on 4/16/11


"we are not under Law but under grace", these sound very different to me. Love for God above all and your neighbor as yourself are the fulfillment of the Law. But if we are under Law we are obligated to keep the whole Law, which include by the way, circumcision.
---ryan on 4/16/11


They are NOT the same. The law of liberty was established by
Christ. Matthew 22:37-40
37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.
---wivv on 4/16/11


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