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Secrets God Has Revealed

What secrets has the Lord revealed to you?

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 ---Donna5535 on 4/18/11
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Samuel, don't you think that you made some kind of mistake when you said that the church is one with Israel? The church and Israel could not possible be one. Israel as a nation is not save. And only those who receive Jesus Christ are saved. The Bible is clear. God will fulfill His Old Testament promises to those "in Isaac," that is, to any human being who follows Abraham's example and who becomes part of His Isreal in the Spirit through faith in the Messiah. Thus the issue is not race, bloodline, genealogy, or ethnicity, but personal faith-a faith available to all, see (Rom. 10:12).
---MarkV. on 5/2/11


strongaxe,

I agree, and it is my hope that what you have said will happen, to me and everyone else involved in here. There are things we know are certain and there are things we have been taught but don't understand and have questions as Mark said somewhere. I personally have found many things I have been taught were not biblical truth, but church tradition. But everyone has to search for themselves and this is what I tell those I share with.
---willa5568 on 5/1/11


That the church is one with Israel.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us],

That the New Covenant is made with Israel. Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Samuel on 5/1/11


John:

You told Samuel: Then did you decide to put yourself above G-d and NOT observe HIS Holy Days. (i.e. The Passover)

This is not for you or anyone else to judge:

Colossians 2:16
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"



willa5568:

Paul praised the Bereans for their diligence in studying:

Acts 17:11:
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Anything that can spur us to similar diligence is a always GOOD thing.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/11


there are no secrets to those who are not blinded ...deception is UPON the WHOLE world - not a few 2Corin 4:4, 11

...many cannot comprehend they are blinded to truth when they insist on following the pagan traditions of men that Biblical Christ WARNED not to follow

however Christ said MANY are called few are chosen

MANY are called to truth ONLY found in Holy Scripture

few are chosen by Christ to obey and serve HIM in this gods world 2Corin 4:4

there are no secrets outside of Holy Scripture as the god of this world has duped many into believing with the thousands of counterfeit christian churches and the chaotic pagan traditions they worship and serve on the sun gods day
---Rhonda on 5/1/11




Francis,

The mystery Paul speaks of is "godliness" not incarnation. It is not logical for it to be speaking of incarnation because in 1Timothy 2:5 there is a differentiation between the "one" God and the "man" who is our mediator and also in 1:2, God the Father AND Jesus our Lord. There is no context whatsoever to imply it to be speaking of a incarnation.
---willa5568 on 5/1/11


Willa, Aka is correct. You combine two passages with different context because you see the word "Mystery."
First, "the mystery" appearing frequently in Paul's writings discribes Truth previously hidden, but now revealed, including Christ's incarnation (1 Tim. 3:16), Christ indwelling of believers (Col. 1:26,27), the unity of Jews and Gentiles in the Church (Eph. 3:4-6), the gospel(Col. 4:3), lawlessness (2 Thess. 2:7) and the rapture of the church (1 Cor. 15:51,52).
The word "godliness" to be godly is to live reverently, loyally, and obediently toward God by "all things that pertain to life" In 2 Peter, he was speaking of something much different then Paul.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/11


aka,

I have enjoyed discussing this with you. And thank you for pushing me to search more in-depth.

God's blessing be with you!
---willa5568 on 5/1/11


did you decide to put yourself above G-d and NOT observe HIS Holy Days. (i.e. The Passover)

But rather opted to follow the Pagan Emperor Constantine.

So then you say its okay to commit Adultery/Fornication just do it in the name of Jesus!

Read: Deuteronomy 12:28-32

John

I do not put myself above G-D nor do I follow Constatine. I read and follow Deuternomy as well as the rest of the Bible. I do not commit adultery.

The Passover pointed to JESUS and is now the commuion service.

Easter is a tradition of men to remeber the resurrection of JESUS. There is nothing wrong with it.

If you wish to keep Passover fine. You can do that. But you judge others when judgement belongs to G-D alone.
---Samuel on 4/30/11


willa,

(2Peter 1:3-8) that passage is great especially when verses 9-11 is included.

Knowledge of Jesus Christ is made clear in verse 11:...2Pe 1:11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
---aka on 5/1/11




aka,

What Godliness (holiness) is, is a secret but was revealed to us in Jesus Christ (2Peter 1:3-8).Through him we have been given what we need for life and godliness by the Father.
---willa5568 on 4/30/11


willa,

i'll go with that. now, finish the sentence, which was also preceded by sentences about God and Christ Jesus.

get to the point...what is the 'mystery of godliness' to you?

as the blog asks, what secrets has the Lord revealed to you?
---aka on 4/30/11


The subject of the verse is not a whom, it is a what, "the mystery of godliness".
---willa5568 on 4/30/11


Donna5535, as to your question, God reveals His Word to us at a perfect pace through the Spirit. Some learn one thing before another. God is not known by the intellect for God is Spirit and therefore can only be known spiritually. But fallen man is not spiritual, he is carnal. He is dead to all that is spiritual. Unless he is born again, supernaturally brought from death unto life, miraculously translated out of darkness into light, he cannot even see the things of God (John 3:3). That is why I say many times that such a God cannot be found out by searching. He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11


willa,

//1Timothy says "he was manifest in the flesh", not God.// willa5568 4/28

//And the word is "hos"- which, who, what etc.// willa5568 4/28

The former would read: "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, ...

The latter would read: "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness, who was manifested in the flesh,

Who is the pronoun 'he' or 'who' referring to whom?

Look in the previous verse. (Other versions use 'theos' deity, 'He'.)

I know you are telling me what you know. I am telling you what I know. The pronoun he or who cannot stand alone, and the only referent possible is in the previous verse.
---aka on 4/29/11


John:

Isn't writng "G-d" for "God" a non-Biblical tradition of men? This is fine, but criticizing other's choice of words while you yourself choose them is the pot calling the kettle black.

Your objections to "Easter" seem to be mostly about the name, but this is very language-dependent. In French, Spanish, Italian, etc. it is derived from Hebrew "pesach" (passover) - yet it's the same holiday in English and Spanish - a celebration of Jesus's resurrection.

The Bible itself does not care about pagan names - Esther's hero is Mordechai, after the god Marduk. Daniel's three friends have Babylonian names, and the New Testament mentions Apollos several times, named after the Greek sun god.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/11


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John--- Other Christians say "God bless you", "Alleluia," "Praise the Lord" with some regularity. Do you condemn these sayings along with "Christ is risen". What about "Jesus Saves"? That is a statement of truth, just as "Christ has risen". Did it ever occur to you that SOME Christians are actually SINCERE in wanting to give glory to God?
Oh no, I forget it's only you...
and .01% percent of Christians.
---Donna66 on 4/29/11


There are people who call themselves Christians who still observe The Passover?


Christ IS our passover....
---Jasheradan on 4/29/11


Look John some of these days used to be Pagan holy days. But not any longer.
---Samuel

AND WHO DECIDED THIS SAMUEL, G-D OR MEN???

Then did you decide to put yourself above G-d and NOT observe HIS Holy Days. (i.e. The Passover)

But rather opted to follow the Pagan Emperor Constantine. A man who boiled his wife alive and slaughter his children. So you follow/obey him and call Easter Holy. So you commit Adultery against G-d Almighty!

So then you say its okay to commit Adultery/Fornication just do it in the name of Jesus!

G-D WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!!

Consider what G-d said..
Read: Deuteronomy 12:28-32

THEN CONSIDER YOUR JUDGEMENT!!!
---John on 4/29/11


John:

If you are married, would you consider saying "I love you" to your wife to be meaningless, ritualistic, vain repetition, or a sincere expression of love and gratitude?

It's true that for SOME people, such comments may be meaningless repetitions, but this by no means implies that it's true for everyone.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/11


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Look John some of these days used to be Pagan holy days. But not any longer. We had an Easter service on Sabbath at my church and then I went to the Second Baptist church to listen to their service.

We have enough real disagrements without adding ones that mean nothing and no longer apply.

When our Pastor said He is Risen we answered He is risen indeed. So what? We are agreeing that our faith is based on a risen Saviour. I see Cluny and Ignatius and others are my Christian brothers and sisters. Not nonbelievers.

Only GOD can judge the heart. So I will leave that to him.
---Samuel on 4/29/11


\\So another Pagan Ritual that Cluny and Ignacius need to recite in obedience to the Patriarch\\

John, just HOW is confessing the Resurrection of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ a pagan ritual?

Explain it to me like I'm 6 years old, because I just don't understand what you're getting at.

And what Patriarch ordered us to say it? Please be specific, giving his name, date, and of which city.
---Cluny on 4/29/11


John,

Christ is Risen!

Christ is Risen!

Christ is Risen!

Satan hates it when we say this, so I am going to say to you many times!

Christ is Risen!

Rejoice!

Christ is Risen!

Agape!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/28/11


May I ask why we are arguing among ourselves? No matter what you present to show a person is wrong, unless they have a desire to learn if they are in error it will probably not be effective. We are commanded to restore in gentleness not criticism.

I hope we all, with meekness, will present what we know to be true and humble ourselves if we are wrong.

Also it seems we have deviated from the question.
---willa5568 on 4/28/11


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\\Any ashes on your heads???
---John on 4/28/11\\

I've already explained that this is NOT an Orthodox custom. Don't you remember from the first few times I posted it, John?

In the mean time, keep on blessing me and adding deposits to my heavenly treasure.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/11


One thing I've noticed in my 40 years of Orthodoxy.

Those three English words really stir up a lot of people's demons.

Why is that?

XPICTOC ANESTH!
---Cluny on 4/28/11


many liturgical churches, this is said frequently during this season. It's a ritual they have.
---Donna66

So another Pagan Ritual that Cluny and Ignacius need to recite in obedience to the Patriarch

Like the Pagan repetitions to Baal.

This has nothing to do with Christ, everything to do with Paganistic Ritualism.

So for the next(whatever the ritual decree is)40days? You will here these puppets recite "Christ is Risen"
Every what??/4 hrs/24 day/ full moon/Orthodox Pagan bell ringing.

SICK!

That Christ name is used in what is not about Christ, but a Ritual Mantra of MidEVIL Paganism!

CLUNY/IGNATIOUS HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR 40DAYS???

Any ashes on your heads???
---John on 4/28/11


In other words, Samuel, you cannot answer my question about what was added in the first 500 years.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/11


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Be specific, Samuel.

What was added 500 years after his death? Cluny


Interesting. I show that not a single one of the verses you quoted support tradition above scripture in fact they support scripture above tradition. And this is your answer.
Between 726-730, the Byzantine Emperor Leo III began the iconoclast campaign. He ordered the removal of an image of Jesus prominently placed over the Chalke gate and its replacement with a cross. Some of those assigned to the task were murdered by a band of iconodules
Wikipedia Iconoclasts.

I am more familiar with the History of the RCC dates like the Assumption of Mary in the 1950s. Perhaps you can give me a place to find where some of your doctrines were adopted.
---Samuel on 4/28/11


\\I wonder how the Jew John would react to some things people added over 500 years later and say these words from 500 years after his death are more important than his written words?\\]

Be specific, Samuel.

What was added 500 years after his death?
---Cluny on 4/27/11


2Jo 1:12 Though I have many things to write to you, I do not want to do so with paper and ink, but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, so that [fn]your joy may be made full.

John want to talk directly. This does not mean that latter words are more important than scripture.

3Jo 1:13,14
I had many things to write to you, but I am not willing to write them to you with pen and ink, but I hope to see you shortly, and we will speak face to face.

John wanted to talk face to face with his friends. I wonder how the Jew John would react to some things people added over 500 years later and say these words from 500 years after his death are more important than his written words?
---Samuel on 4/27/11


2Th 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

Those who do not follow the writings and directions of the apostles are not to be followed. The scriputres were them writing down traditions. Would the other traditions contridict the ones in Scripture. Not according to this passage.

1Cr 11:2
Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

We should hold firmly to the traditions the apostles wrote down for us and not make other latter traditions rule over the scripture.
---Samuel on 4/27/11


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The following passages are in NASB. That Cluny referred too.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I see here that traditions of men can cause problems and spoil the truth.

2Th 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter [fn]from us.

I see here that words and letters from the apostles are what we are to trust. Not words from hundreds of years after their death or words that contradict their teachings in their writings.
---Samuel on 4/27/11


John --- I believe you are misunderstanding Cluny's "Christ is risen". I'm sure this is not meant to be informative.
I don't know about the Orthodox church, but for many liturgical churches, this is said frequently during this season. The proper response would be, "He is risen indeed". It's a little ritual they have.
---Donna66 on 4/27/11


\\BTW Cluny thanks for your great revelation that "Christ Has Risen".\\

John, I don't know how things are done in the wannabee Karaite Jewish sect you adhere to, but "Christ is risen!" is how Christians greet people at this time of year.
---Cluny on 4/27/11


The idea of secret is perfect.

Hopefully all of us have seen
things we did not see before in Gods word or have had to change our belief in what we have been taught. That is the idea of a secret, something we did not know, though it was there, then it was revealed to us. That is the origin of Sola Scriptura.

Martin Luther, who was a monk in the Catholic church, when studying the scripture saw things contrary to what he was taught. So he proclaimed, it is not traditional teaching (which the jews of Jesus's time were guilty of too) , but scripture that we build our faith on.
---willa5568 on 4/26/11


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Cluny,

all of the verses you have presented for tradition speak of instruction. These instructions tell what they should do as Christians. This instruction or teaching comes from the Lord not something they have established.

If a tradition is done unto the Lord, such as the celebrations you have mentioned, no one can say that is wrong. But these are not things just to celebrate an event, but are instructions on how the church is to be.
---willa5568 on 4/26/11


Samuel, Jesus said nothing bad about tradition, per se.

He followed the current tradition of His earthly sojourn about eating the Pesach Seder, even though it diverged considerably from what was ordered in Exodus.

The NT says a lot GOOD about tradition.

Colossians 2:8--there IS a tradition after Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15

2 Thessalonians 3:6

1 Corinthians 11:2

1 Cor 11:23

1 Cor 11:34bunwritten instructions he will deliver (tradition) orally.

2 Timothy 2:2tradition to other faithful men.

2 John 12. 3 John 13St. John says that many of his instructions will NOT be written down.
---Cluny on 4/26/11


BTW Cluny thanks for your great revelation that "Christ Has Risen".

I doubt any of us here on "CHRISTIAN" net were aware of that.


DAH!!!
---John on 4/26/11


And NONE of the verses mean "Sola scriptura."

You're indulging in eisogesis--that is, reading INTO the text.

Don't forget, the Church functioned in ALL her fullness without ONE WORD of the New Testament being written down.

Cluny

Yes the Apostles in the verse shown were using their authority and the Old Testament which the verses show. The verse do show that Scripture was how doctrine was decided because the Apostles and Jesus used it to prove what they taught.

By saying I use esigesis you excuse the fact that you cannot refute the meaning of the verses nor the point of their use. Men say does not refute It is written.

I accept what JESUS said about tradition.
---Samuel on 4/26/11


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\\Look them up.
---Samuel on 4/25/11\\

And NONE of the verses mean "Sola scriptura."

You're indulging in eisogesis--that is, reading INTO the text.

Don't forget, the Church functioned in ALL her fullness without ONE WORD of the New Testament being written down.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/26/11


\\ And you would oppose the principle of Sola Scriptura, which affirms that the Bible is the sole written authority for the faith, and life of God's People.\\

Because NOWHERE does the Bible say this. Cluny

It does in saying scripture is the authority.

The word Scripture is used 32 times in the KJV. Starting in Dan. 10:21

Jhn 10:35 ... and the scripture cannot be broken,
Whereas some teach scripture can be broken by traditions.
Read:
Gal 4:30 1 Tim5:18 2Peter 1:20

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Look them up.
---Samuel on 4/25/11


Scripture is also called(Word of GOD)

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Go to any online concordance and type word of GOD you get 44 exact matches and 14 inexact matches in the New Testament alone.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

These and many of the other passages point to the Word of GOD or the Bible as the final authoity.
---Samuel on 4/25/11


Jesus and the Apostles when they wanted to show the truth they used the phrase It is written and then quoted Scripture.

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Mat 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


By Tradition Israel changed the law. Mat 21:13
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Used over 80 times in the KJV.
---Samuel on 4/25/11


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Torah, first five books of the Bible is the law. Law is used in 459 verses in the Bible. The Law is the final standard of truth. False prophets works of men were to be judged by the law.

The New Testament reminds us that the law is established by faith and defines sin.
Rom 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:7
1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Along with this is Commandments of GOD used 56 times in the KJV.
Deu 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
---Samuel on 4/25/11


Why don't you tell us who God used to put the Bible together?\\

Why, the Orthodox Church, of course.

You don't think it was your church, do you?
---Cluny on 4/19/11




AND SO CLUNY.... The Orthodox church organized and wrote the LXX???
---John on 4/24/11


Cluny, my intend is not to attack you personally, but some of the doctrines of your church. All one has to do is look it up and all the information is out there for all to see and read. The veneration and worship of icons is practice in your church. Shrines are made of Mary, saints, and others for worship. Prayers go to them and not to the Lord many times. Traditions from man who go against the second commandment. "You shall not bow down to them nor serve them, for I am the Lord your God, am a jealous God"
When Scripture does not interpret Scripture, traditions like this go against Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/11


\\it's ok to add the traditions of man, this way you can worship idols and do what you want\\

We don't worship idols.

Tell us what traditions of men we have. Be specific.

\\the Bible created the Church, for the Church is the gathering of believers.\\

It's the gathering of the believers in CHRIST, not believers in a book. The Church functioned in all her fullness before ONE WORD of the NT was written down.

\\ And you would oppose the principle of Sola Scriptura, which affirms that the Bible is the sole written authority for the faith, and life of God's People.\\

Because NOWHERE does the Bible say this.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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Cluny, you must think everyone outside of the Eastern Orthodox is dumb. That since Sola Scriptura is not found in Scripture, it's ok to add the traditions of man, this way you can worship idols and do what you want. The same reason you think the Bible came from the Eastern Orthodox Church. But the Church did not gives us the Bible, God gave us His Word. All the church did was receive what was already Truth, and if you are honest, the Bible created the Church, for the Church is the gathering of believers. And you would oppose the principle of Sola Scriptura, which affirms that the Bible is the sole written authority for the faith, and life of God's People. Your church wants to be in authority for faith and life of God's people.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/11


God has not told me any secrets. He has clarify my understanding of the Scriptures. I also had the experience while witnessing of the Lord telling me to shut up, be quiet and when I did the person(who is already under conviction) quickly received the Lord Jesus Christ. But my own human understanding was shocked by being told to shut up by the Lord.
---mima on 4/20/11


Why don't you tell us who God used to put the Bible together?\\

Why, the Orthodox Church, of course.

You don't think it was your church, do you?
---Cluny on 4/19/11

Cluny, exactly what is the Orthodox Church? Is it a Catholic Church or Lutheran? or what is it? Do they follow the Catholic traditions of lent, confessing sins to a priest? Worshipping that Gold thing that holds the Eucharist? I have a neighbor who leaves her house at 2am in the morning just to go and sit before that gold thing that holds Holy Communion and she thinks she's worshipping God. Is that what the Orthodox church is? A Catholic Church?
---Donna5535 on 4/20/11


Cluny, So you think by wearing the garb that they wore 2,000 years ago makes you more holy??
Is it like the Amish who don't believe in progress?
BTW neither God nor Jesus originated Bishops Presbyters or Deacons..bible says Paul did!
There are more Paulites than Christians today!
---1st_cliff on 4/20/11


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typo-

The flip side of the above is that the secrets of the Lord are not for those who do not fear Him.
---aka on 4/19/11


//The secrets of the Lord are for those who fear Him.//

The flip side of the above is that the secrets of the Lord are for those who do not fear Him. So once the secrets are revealed to those who fear Him, are they secrets anymore to whom they are given?

anybody can claim special knowledge if they want. Everybody have that freedom.

He is revealing to me what I am not, and revealing his secrets that are potentially available to all to show us who He is. no secret there.
---aka on 4/19/11


\\Who do you think God used to put the Bible together?"

Why don't you tell us who God used to put the Bible together?\\

Why, the Orthodox Church, of course.

You don't think it was your church, do you?
---Cluny on 4/19/11


You people bicker among each other like silly children about whose "church" is better.

The true church of Christ doesn't have buildings, don't belong to the government or is controled by the government, don't waste money on material things such as buildings, statues, maintenance, don't have rituals and traditions, don't repeat prayers.

The true church of Christ is nothing more than people.
---Steveng on 4/19/11


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I love the way 1st cliff and cluny IGNORE my scripture references below and just go on arguing about the original church, yep, that's what Jesus said to do...argue!

Okay I am laughing over here. It's obvious cluny's doctrines are a bit different than ours. Now you're all going to jump on me and say, Donna who is ours? You guess who I mean by ours! sheesh, is there any agreement between us BELIEVERS IN CHRIST JESUS or do we ALL have to have an opinion on EVERYTHING? Just asking..lol.
---Donna5535 on 4/19/11


I must agree with Cluny about salvation.

Certainly more was done on Calvary than merely shedding of blood and forgiveness of sins. Way more.

I am sure that the "planet" and all living things benefitted from Calvary.

Perhaps not in any way we humans can measure. But does the Scriptures not say that Christ "fills all in all" and "in Him all things hold together" and that the "whole creation groans"?

I believe this Scripture says it so well

1 Cor 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face, now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known"
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/11


Cluny, you said,

Who do you think God used to put the Bible together?"

Why don't you tell us who God used to put the Bible together? I would like to know who they were since you seem to think you know who they are. Teach us something you think we don't know.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/11


\\Cluny,**the original church that Jesus founded** that's interesting.. what form of "hierarchy" did He originate??\\

Bishops, presbyters, and deacons, just like you read in the Bible.

\\ parades with Bishops and clergy in long robes tall hats carrying poles topped with symbols and chuch buildings with walls lined with icons ??\\

Ecclesiastical vestments are basically what everyone wore on the street 2000 years ago until the ladies of the altar guild got hold of them.

I'm willing to bet that an Orthodox priest in a cassock looks a whole lot more like what Jesus and the Apostles wore then your preacher in his 3-piece polyester suit.

\\BCV please!\\

We don't play by that rule, and never have.
---Cluny on 4/19/11


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Cluny,**the original church that Jesus founded** that's interesting.. what form of "hierarchy" did He originate?? parades with Bishops and clergy in long robes tall hats carrying poles topped with symbols and chuch buildings with walls lined with icons ?? BCV please!
Your ideology is much like Mormons who even have the 12 Apostles in Salt Lake City!
---1st_cliff on 4/19/11


I thought the Apostle Paul spoke about the mystery and how it was revealed to him, right?

Romans 16:25 - Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
---Donna5535 on 4/19/11


\\Cluny, what you mentioned as being among the mysteries of the Gospel are not part of the mystery.\\

Yes, they are, and your denying it will not change the truth.

\\Knowing this, why in the world would I want to attend one of your churches.\\

To be in the original Church that Jesus founded.

\\If you want to learn something, maybe you should go to a Bible Church.\\

Who do you think God used to put the Bible together?
---Cluny on 4/19/11


"God has revealed these secrets to us, by his Spirit. They are imparted to those who are filled with the Spirit. Those who possess the Holy Spirit can hear and understand these secrets of God." Paul calls them the "depths" or the "deep things" of God.

It is these same things which later on in First Corinthians he refers to as the "mysteries" of God. In Chapter 4, Verses 1 and 2, there is a beautiful statement describing what a Christian is:1Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful
---Lea on 4/19/11


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//If you want to learn something, maybe you should go to a Bible Church.
---Rob on 4/19/11//
Good answer Rob, but you know they are very hard to find. You can see by the comments and cuts on these blogs,that there are not many who have found a Bible Church. Most are still trying to live by the OT and the 4 gospels.
---michael_e on 4/19/11


"If those who are saved by grace through faith went to your congregation, they would be walking right back under the law and traditions of man.
---Mark"_V. on 4/19/11
with this statement MarkV has pinned the tail on the donkey.
---mima on 4/19/11


Cluny, like Rob I disagree with your answers. There is no mystery about our salvation, it is by Grace through faith in the perfect works of Christ on the Cross.
The one main mystery in Scripture was that the Gentiles were going to be included under the new Covenant. If we are speaking about the secret things of God, no one needs to know, for the secret things of God belong to God.
There is no mystery in
"Baptism, Eucharist, Marriage, Anointing of the Sick, and Ordination"
They might be a mystery to those in the Orthodox but not to the elect of God. If those who are saved by grace through faith went to your congregation, they would be walking right back under the law and traditions of man.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/11


aka and KarenD, are you sure there are no secrets? Because the bible says, "The secrets of the Lord are for those who fear Him."

Daniel 2:28 says - But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.

Job 11:6 - And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.
---Donna5535 on 4/19/11


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Cluny, what you mentioned as being among the mysteries of the Gospel are not part of the mystery.

Knowing this, why in the world would I want to attend one of your churches.

If you want to learn something, maybe you should go to a Bible Church.
---Rob on 4/19/11


There are no secrets. Anyone who says different is probably selling something.

There is only revelation and there is no favoritism with God. We all see using a very dim light. The brighter the Light becomes in our lives, the more that is revealed. The same thing is available to all. but, everybody does not want to see.
---aka on 4/19/11


There are no secrets with the Lord. His mercy and HIS gospel are free.
---KarenD on 4/18/11


Four years ago, my ambition wasn't to POSSESS esoteric 'WISDOMS', I don't have the need to impress myself or anyone (no insecurities, I am who I am, like it or not).

God TAUGHT me (not "REVEALED" TO ME, humility must be maintained). We are not to conform to the bible 'system', we are to conform to "the image of his Son", Romans 8:29.

Jesus came to predestine "all flesh" for salvation, but we must grow spiritually to become a 'first-born in Jesus'...and there will be many brethren 'OF the TRUTH', (not brethren of MAN).

So, don't look for "wisdoms" ("revelations") in order to impress anyone, let the good teacher TEACH you "understanding" (Proverbs).
---more_excellent_way on 4/18/11


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\\Even though this "MYSTERY" is found in scripture, most churches avoid it like it is a plague.
---Rob on 4/18/11\\

We talk about the mysteries of our salvation all the time in the Orthodox Church.

Baptism, Eucharist, Marriage, Anointing of the Sick, and Ordination are among the mysteries of the Gospel. (I'm not pretending this is an exhaustive list.)

Maybe if you went to one of our Churches, you might learn something.
---Cluny on 4/18/11


The secret revealed to me is "MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL"

Even though this "MYSTERY" is found in scripture, most churches avoid it like it is a plague.
---Rob on 4/18/11


Were I to tell you, or put it on the internet, it would no longer be a secret, now would it?
---Cluny on 4/18/11


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