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Were Ananias Sappira Saved

In Acts chapter 5 we have the story of Ananias, and Sapphira his wife. After reading the story what do you believe?
1. They were never saved and certainly went to hell for their transgressions.
2. They were always saved and went to heaven even though their lives were cut short.

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 ---mima on 4/19/11
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Francis, that passage you gave has a different context. I told you that in many places it uses salvation as future, present and past. You want to hold to one passage and make it law, just like you hold the Law in it's past context.
---Mark_V. on 5/3/11


If this was the beginning of the boC Why were these people selling everything?
---michael_e on 5/3/11


I guess you answered my questions as best as you were willing to Gord. Okay, thx! :)
---Leon on 5/3/11


---francis the book is Romans, the captor is 8 and the verse is one.

"1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
---mima on 5/3/11


. When God forgives our sins, he forgives all our sins and in effect for gives our sins that will be committed before they are committed. This is the simplest and purest form of "unconditional eternal security"
---mima on 5/2/11
FROM WHAT BOOK CHAPTER AND VERSE are UNCONFESSED EVEN UNCOMMITED SINS FORGVEN?

---Mark_V. on 4/30/11
If salvation is NEARER that we donot have it yet simple as that
Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.
---francis on 5/3/11




Leon, GOD knows each person inside and out. He knows whether a person is really following Him or not. If such persons were as Ananias and Sapphira, they would get the same treatment. GOD is no respector of persons in this regard.
---Gordon on 5/3/11


---Leon your question on 4/30/11 needs an answer. In the affairs of men, there is such a thing, as selling something before you own it. This transaction is not unlike what is known as selling short in the stock market. When God forgives our sins, he forgives all our sins and in effect for gives our sins that will be committed before they are committed. This is the simplest and purest form of "unconditional eternal security"
---mima on 5/2/11


Francis, you confuse the topic of salvation, suggesting been save is future only. The Bible uses the term salvation in a specific sense to refer to our ultimate rescue from the wrath of God, but it also uses the word saved in many tenses of the Greek language. There is a sense in which we were saved ( from the foundation of the world) : we are been saved (by the work of God through history) , we are saved (by being in a justified state) : we are being saved (experience the consumation of our redemption in heaven). The Bible speaks of salvation in terms of the past, present, and future. We equate salvation in terms of our justification, which is present. Salvation is of the Lord. Human beings cannot save themselves. Salvation is a Divine work.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11


Gord: You've concluded A & S weren't saved members in the Body of Christ because the Bible doesn't say they repented of their sin (deception). You imply there's no room for the application of God's "grace" in their case.

Here's a question I believe parallels the A & S situation. What do you think of "Christians" who knowingly have unconfessed sin in their lives & unworthily take communion (the Lord's Supper)? (1 Cor. 11:27-30) As a result, many become ill & some die (past, present...). Did/do these "Christians" go to heaven of hell? True, they all perpetrate a fraud (lied)! Do you believe their sin (though requiring God's judgment) was/is unpardonable? (Matt. 12:31-32)
---Leon on 4/30/11


Leon, Yes, GOD allows us, as Believers, to suffer the consequences for our sins. I know that. I'm experiencing that myself today in life. I'll have to correct myself here to say that GOD "MAY have allowed Anas and sapph to live" if they'd repented. But, they DID NOT repent. When Paul confronted Sapphira about the money, after her man was slain...Did she 'fess up about their lies? Or did she continue in their lies? It says that Sapph stuck to her lying story and INSTANTLY she was slain. NO TIME TO REPENT. They pre-meditated their lying story and they stuck to it 'til they were struck dead. They died with wicked, deceiving hearts. Hearts setting out to the deceive the Holy Spirit. They were not following the Spirit.
---Gordon on 4/29/11




---Mark_V. on 4/27/11
1: Belief and faith does not mean we ARE SAVED. It means WE SHALL ( future) be saved.
2: People can at any time make a choice to BACKSLIDE ( turn away from God)

We accept that we shall be saved by FAITH, but what doe sthe bible say: Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

See the words NOW and SHALL,
Now Justified, future SHALL be saved.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Some who have faith today, and believe today, will not endure to the end, some will back slide:

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
---francis on 4/29/11


Francis, you said:

"This is where you lost your footing: If you think that we are saved when we accept and believe in Jesus you are wrong:"

What footing do I lose? My footing is the Word of God.
No Francis, I do not believe that, even the devil believes in Christ but was never, or will never be save. A person has to have faith in the Works of Christ on the Cross and His resurrection. And that faith comes from God. Anyone can commit and believe, but that doesn't mean they are saved. Faith Francis, is what they lack.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/11


Love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, longsuffering, faith, meekness & temperance. You may want to demonstrate some of that here Steveng.
---Leon on 4/27/11


They will not be in the first resurrection, and will not go to heaven. They died in their sins - so once saved is not always saved.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
---jerry6593 on 4/27/11


\\Your "pre-denominational church" is as worldly as all the other denominational churches.\\

Tell me everything you actually KNOW about Orthodoxy, Steveng.

Not what you think you know or guess.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/26/11


Cluny: "And as I said, I'm a member of the only PRE-Denominational Church."

Your "pre-denominational church" is as worldly as all the other denominational churches. All denominational churches (each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, interpretations of the bible) sway along with the economic conditions of the world. And all belong to the government.

The true church of Christ is not of this world and is not affected by, for instance, recessions and depressions. The true church doesn't have a multi-million dollar budget for maintenance of buildings, salaries, entertainment, program budgets, equipment, etc.
---Steveng on 4/26/11


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Cluny: What external advantage was there for Ananias and Sapphira, Steveng?"

Why does anyone hoard money?
---Steveng on 4/26/11


---Mark_V. on 4/26/11

Acts 5:2-5 the sold the land, and PLANNED to keep some of the money and LIE about it. So it was premeditated

This is where you lost your footing: If you think that we are saved when we accept and believe in Jesus you are wrong:

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

SALVATION NEARER, meaning we are not yet saved, BUt we accept that we SHALL BE SAVED by Faith.
---francis on 4/26/11


The answer for them is the same as for everyone else, if they didn't believe in Christ as their Savior when they died, they didn't make it to heaven. Their physical deaths were consequences of their sin of lying to the Holy Spirit. There are often physical consequences to Christians for sin, even tho they are saved. Could they do that and be trusting Christ? Do we all, always, that are Christians, act like we are? Are we always truthful? Since God always knows the truth, and the Holy Spirit convicts us before we deliberately lie, is every lie a lie to the Holy Spirit?
---GMa_La_La on 4/26/11


Francis, you cannot find any support for most of yours answers because you keep going back to those who were under the Law. Why do you not move forward like you did with 2 Peter. Lets talk about those who are in Christ already, who are under Grace through faith. We already know what happened to Israel and how they could not be saved under the Law. We now have Christ, He has risen.
2 Peter 2:20 no where say's these people were saved. Knowing all the things of God does not make a genuine believer. He must be born of the Spirit. Have a contrite heart, and commit his life to Christ. Looks to me there was no commitment. For them it will be worse, for they knew all about God and did not honor are give thanks to Him. They were not ignorant.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11


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The Bible looks at sin two ways:

1: Sin through ignorance

Numbers 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Numbers 15:28...and it shall be forgiven him.


2: Sin presumptuously

Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD, and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Numbers 15:31.. that soul shall utterly be cut off, his iniquity shall be upon him.

Ananias, and Sapphira his wife sin was the latter, thus they were cut off immediatly. They will not be saved.
---Francis on 4/26/11


\\Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
---francis on 4/25/11\\

I've been trying to get you to turn from YOUR iniquity, francis, but your heart is hardened.

**Most people join the denominational churches for many reasons, but not for the right reason.
---Steveng on 4/24/11**

What external advantage was there for Ananias and Sapphira, Steveng?

And as I said, I'm a member of the only PRE-Denominational Church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/26/11


Stepheng: Huh?!!! Are you pronouncing judgment upon me? Sorry, I didn't mean to get your hackles up! :D
---Leon on 4/26/11


Steven, why do you continue to slander others with your comments? Why don't you answer with Scripture? Next, he did not attack you. Yet you said the way Leon answers is like the "worldly" concluding he is not save.
Next, God does not judge unbelievers from the book of life. He judges them from the book of works. The book of life is the book that contains the names of all those who are saved. Who's names were written before the foundation of the world.
---mary on 4/26/11


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Leon, picking and choosing things that you do not understand? A worldly person would surely answer the way you did.
---Steveng on 4/25/11


Leon: "God would not let [leave?] us hanging...speculating." Steveng, 4/24"

Attacking my semantics? You would surely have a field day at the way Moses talked, wouldn't you.
---Steveng on 4/25/11


---Mark_V. on 4/25/
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

save FROM SIN, not IN SIN
---francis on 4/25/11


Francis, Ez. 18:24 is not talking about a person who has the imputed righteousness of Christ. It is talking about a man who is righteously good all the time and does the right things and then turns to doing unrighteous things. I realized one time another one here put that same verse to show there is righteous people been born without Christ. Just nonsense. The Bible says, None is righteous, no not one, no one who understands and no one seeks God. Rom. 3:9-12.
"Enter not into judgment with they servant, for no man living is righteous before thee" Psalm 143:3.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11


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Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
---francis on 4/25/11


God would not let [leave?] us hanging...speculating." Steveng, 4/24

Okay! Where did Cain's wife come from...who were the "everyone" (G4:14) Cain feared? Why did Noah get drunk? Why did Mrs. Lot turn back to Sodom?, etc. Care to speculate?! :)

"If they'd had any intention to repent, (knowing the LORD), He would have let them repent & live." Gord', 4/25

Really?! What about Moses not being allowed to go into the promised land? What about the death of David's infant son?, etc.

God is merciful, gracious & JUST! Nonetheless, we all, with no exceptions, suffer/pay the consequences for our sin.
---Leon on 4/25/11


Leon: "Gordon: So, you believe Christians who die suddenly, e.g.,... without having a chance to repent of their most recent sin, go to Hell? Why?"

They will not partake in the first ressurection upon the return of Jesus, but they will be judged from the book of life according to their works at the second ressurection at the end of the thousand year rein of Christ.
---Steveng on 4/24/11


Cluny: ""There was no particular WORLDLY OR SOCIAL advantage to it.""

Most people join the denominational churches for many reasons, but not for the right reason.
---Steveng on 4/24/11


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Leon: "Because it wasn't recorded in the Bible doesn't mean they didn't repent."

God would not let us hanging, assuming, or speculating. Much like Mark V. usually does, right Mark V.?
---Steveng on 4/24/11


Bill_willa6989-- Would you please try to remember that there are TWO Donnas and sometimes they both contribute to the same blog. I read your last post and had no idea what you were talking about. Then I figured out it wasn't MY post you were responding to. Donna66 and Donna5535 are not the same. Just pretend the numbers are part of the name, OK?
---Donna66 on 4/24/11


Leon, The Scriptures do not indicate, at all, that they repented. That is why they died. The LORD had them both struck dead. If they'd had any intention to repent, (knowing the LORD), He would have let them repent and live. That's His Nature. Listen, after Ananias fell down dead, and was being carried away to be buried...Paul confronted Sapphira and asked her what was up with their money. RIGHT THEN Sapph could've said "I was wrong! I lied! I repent! LORD forgive me! But, she didn't! She stuck to her lie! Therefore, the LORD struck her down, and she died in her sin!
---Gordon on 4/25/11


Leon, sorry I used that word. I will find another word that is similar to that. It really was not meant in the wrong context at all. I speculate many times, but when I do, it comes from me, when I cannot find the answer to something. Like when Jesus died and the graves were opened and many believers came to life, I speculate what happen to them because I don't know. That was all. Nothing to get angry about. I like answering you. I will do my best not to use that word when I answer you.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11


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"The fact they did not repent speaks VOLUMES."

Really Gord?! How do you know "they didn't" repent openly or silently in their hearts before being struck dead? You may be right. :) Likewise, you could be very wrong. Because it wasn't recorded in the Bible doesn't mean they didn't repent.

Even when we repent of our sin, there's "always" consequences (great or small)to be paid for our actions. The Bible shows this cover-to-cover.

I believe God used A & S as an object lesson (as you say: WARNING) for His Church. (1 Peter 4:17-19) God's will be done IN ALL THINGS!

Mark: You can't imagine how tired I am of "your" using the word "speculating"! :)
---Leon on 4/23/11


Leon, We must piece together different Scriptural revelations together, concerning an issue, in order to get the WHOLE picture. Yes, while we know that "only GOD knows completely one's heart", we also know that "By their Fruits ye shall know them." And the Scriptures state that "out of the heart flow the issues of life." I.e., what ever is REALLY in your heart will come out eventually, one way or another. We can know whether a person is Saved or not by observing their life. Some may be "good actors", but, somehow their hypocrisy will betray them for what they REALLY think and believe. As for An and Sapph, they showed their true colours. The fact that they did not repent speaks VOLUMES.
---Gordon on 4/23/11


Leon, Btw, Ananias and Sapphira could have repented, they were given time. Maybe not much time, but, they still were given some time to repent. But, they didn't. They clung to their lie and deceit. As Paul said, it was their money to do as they wished. But, they chose to deceive, for deceptiveness was in their hearts, and they did not have any intention of repenting. If they did, how does it show?? By the story, we can only surmise that they were going to try to get away with their deception as much as they could. GOD saw fit to let them die in Judgment, in their sin, for HE knew that's what their hearts were full of. SIN. It also served as a Warning to the remaining Church.
---Gordon on 4/23/11


Leon, your speculating. The passages are not speculating. God's Word is truth when it says, "Now the multitude of those who believed" God wants us to know they believed. "were of one heart and one soul" They all believe were of one heart and one soul. Then says, "neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own" those passages could not mean Ananias and S. were part of the group who believed since they did not give all. Those others who believed gave everything, S.A. didn't. "For all who were possessors of land or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold" A.S. did not, they were not part of the group who believed. It's simple.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/11


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Gord: I believe 100%+ one thing you said, i.e., "GOD [alone] knows the heart" of us all (past, present & future). So, who (besides God) can say who is or who isn't a true Christian? "...all [of us] have sinned & come short of the glory of God." (Ro. 3:23)

Mark: That's a metaphor meaning they were all like minded in meeting the needs of the church & community. It doesn't mean any of them were doing what they were doing with sinless perfection. A & S also brought the proceeds from their sale ~ just not all of it & therein "lies" the rub!

The Church was afraid after seeing what happened to A & S because... Yes, God knows the heart! :)
---Leon on 4/22/11


Leon, good questions. Here is why I believe that they were not b.a. Verse (32) of Acts 5 tells us,

"Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul, neither did anyone say that any of the things possessed was his own, but they had all things in common."
Did you see that? All those who believed were of one heart and one soul" Then it says, "Nor was there anyone among them who lacked, for all who were possessors of lands or houses sole them and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold." Who did? those who believed, all of them.
But not Ananias nor Sapphira. They were not of those (everyone) who believed, because all the others gave everything.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/11


Leon, First, we must remember that GOD knows the heart and the whole life of each and every Christian that "dies suddenly with no chance to repent of their sin." Every situation is unique and GOD knows what those individuals were thinking, believing and whether they've been living out His Word while they were living prior to their instant death. This all must be taken into primary consideration. My implicatiion was, as someone else noted here, that Ananias and Sapphira's sin of lying was a result of a rebellious heart. They did that "one lie" because they were already, AT LEAST, on a back-slidden path. A true Christian would not want to lie as they did.
---Gordon on 4/22/11


Donna, how she had become before saying that is what I would say could keep her out. What she said is a product of how she had become. So, then . . . if she was changed by Jesus, after that, to become a loving and honest person . . . she can't be charged with what that bitter and distorting person did and said, because she is no longer that person (c: Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/21/11


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I believe the average believer tells a bigger lie than that at least once in his life time. That is if you are going to say this is part of the Church the body of Christ,(plain to see it isn't) and use it as an example.
But this is an example of the circumstances in the Kingdom. So I believe this is what these Jewish believers had to understand. They were getting ready to come under the authority of The King Who is going to rule with an iron hand. You don't fool Him. You don't even tell a white lie to Him. And so this is really the lesson for these Jews. They were now coming under a set of circumstances where their King was going to rule with absolute power and knowledge. You wouldn't be able to hide anything from Him.
---michael_e on 4/21/11


Mark: By saying they were imposters, do you mean they weren't born again (ba) or were they hypocritical ba christians? If not ba, how could they be involved (connected, linked) with the Holy Spirit?

Mima: Gordon's statement is light years from yours. Your comments takes into consideration God's grace & mercy. Gord's don't.

If Peter, being led by the Holy Spirit, had said A & S weren't ba, then the Church might not have been afraid & may've said, "See, that's what happens when unbelievers play church". But, I believe A & S were "ba believers in Jesus Christ" & the Church was afraid because they knew the same thing could happen to any of them should they transgress in like manner.
---Leon on 4/22/11


I believe that Ananias and Sapphira were both impostors to the faith. They were in the congregation of those who believed (v. 4:32) and were involve with the Holy Spirit (v. 3) but remained hypocrites. The Bible gives two classic examples of hypocrisy among Christians who faked their spirituality to impress others as (Matt. 6:1-6, 16-18, 15:7, 23:13-36) indicate and clearly speaks about Hypocrisy. There outward sin was lying about how much they were going to give the church, but the deeper, more devastating sin was their spiritual hypocrisy based on selfishness. That is why there was great fear concerning hypocrisy, it could bring death and did.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/11


Alan you're shouting!
I must have an influence on you.:)
---John on 4/21/11


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//were they born again believers or just religious social climbers (like many today) trying to draw attention to themselves//

Cluny--you point out that becoming a Christian was a step down the social ladder.
Not necessarily. THAT depends on which "step" they started from! You don't have to be a "social climber" to want to impress your friends! Gang members break the law to impress their peers. Well-known flamboyant Christian leaders spend a career trying to impress others

So S & A (born again or not we can't tell) found a way, they thought, to lie and receive the praise and admiration of their friends. God sent swift judgment and HE knows whether they went to heaven or hell, I don't.
---Donna66 on 4/21/11


And Mima, it follows that we will ALL die with unrepented sins, since we can't remember them.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/21/11


I submit that no man can remember his sins, therefore if he dies suddenly he dies with unrepentant sin. That seems to be Gordon's position.
---mima on 4/21/11


Gordon: So, you believe Christians who die suddenly, e.g., in accidents, war, street violence, catastrophic natural disasters, BEING STRUCK DEAD BY heart attacks/strokes, etc., without having a chance to repent of their most recent sin, go to Hell? Why?
---Leon on 4/21/11


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I believe that both Ananias and Sapphira went to Hell because they died in their UNREPENTANT SIN of lying.
---Gordon on 4/21/11


Cluny: Are you saying you believe #1 since you believe A & S probably didn't see "no particular WORLDLY OR SOCIAL advantage..." to becoming born again Christians, so they were fronting (putting on religious faces & pretending to be in the Church ~ Body of Christ)?
---Leon on 4/21/11


Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?

Cluny, what you say is true. A & S thought they were concealing money from other believers. But, Peter pointed out that, in effect, it was lying to the Holy Spirit (Divinity amongst the believers).

witness: Mat 25:40...'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

Mark_Eaton, good point.
---aka on 4/20/11


\\There was no particular advantage to it\\

Let me modify this statement. I meant to say, "There was no particular WORLDLY OR SOCIAL advantage to it."

(First Orthodox Church of Jerusalem was hardly a magnet for yuppies!)
---Cluny on 4/20/11


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\\I think the real question should be were they born again believers or just religious social climbers (like many today) trying to draw attention to themselves as persons to be highly esteemed.\\

Leon, to have become a Christian would have been to go DOWN the social ladder. There was no particular advantage to it.
---Cluny on 4/20/11


Based on what Scripture says, Ananias & Sapphira were members of (some how associated with) the Church community. That is to say, they went to (congregated with the) church!

I think the real question should be were they born again believers or just religious social climbers (like many today) trying to draw attention to themselves as persons to be highly esteemed...

If they were saved, they are in heaven (just like believers who unjustly take part in holy communion & die sooner than they would've otherwise). If they were just religious churchgoers, Hell likely was their end destination.

Bottomline: None of us can say for sure where they are. God alone knows!
---Leon on 4/20/11


Nana, and Cluny - I suggest you read Acts 5:3-10 where the Bible clearly says they LIED to the HOLY SPIRIT and were STRUCT DOWN DEAD. You both go AGAINST the Bible and God calling God a liar. I suggest you both REPENT. Yes, it is NOT me judging you, but God through His Word.
---Leslie on 4/20/11


In order to answer this question you must first recognize the sin.

1) Stealing? No it was their property and their money to begin with

2) Lying to Peter (Nope)

Self Glorification vs Glorifying the Holy Spirit???

Are there other examples of this in scripture (i.e. Herod)


If you study this further, you will find your answer.
---John on 4/19/11


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They both are in hell together with Judas Iscariot.
---Eloy on 4/20/11


Mima


Their is a viable third option which you failed to list.

3. They were once saved and turned from their savior and went astray landing them in hell.

God Bless, Paul
---paul on 4/20/11


Good question Mima.
Why were they struck down?
Wasn't it for the Love of Money?
Jesus said in,
(Matthew 6:24),
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."


If they denied God out of their love for money, was God their master?
---David on 4/20/11


yes I believe they are saved, they made a bad choice and sinned. The consequences of sin is always death at some point in time. God decided that he would do it quickly to make a point to the local church.
---Scott on 4/20/11


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\\" I suggest you read your Bible and stop going with what you believe or were taught (it is WRONG)."
---Leslie on 4/19/11\\

Any chance that what YOU'VE been taught in wrong, Leslie?

You don't actually think you go by the Bible, do you/
---Cluny on 4/19/11


" I suggest you read your Bible and stop going with what you believe or were taught (it is WRONG)."
---Leslie on 4/19/11

Leslie,
What I believe is what I read in the Bible actually. I have not been taught by anyone but you seem to want to guide me.
No thank you, you're a bit of a nervous wreck.

John 15:1_2: "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit,
he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

You fail to see that it is God who does the recompense, not Leslie.
---Nana on 4/19/11


It's very easy at 2000 years remove to say that people you never knew were saved--or otherwise. And it's fun, isn't it?

However, there's something else here that a lot of you are missing.

Clearly lying to the Church or her leaders is equated with lying to the Holy Spirit.

Think about it.
---Cluny on 4/19/11


Nana - I know this because the BIBLE says so, NOT me. The Bible says they lied to the Holy Spirit and were struct down dead. The Bible says that ALL liars go to the Lake of Fire (Hell) (Revelation 21:8). The Bible says that sins committed against the Holy Spirit are worse then sins committed against the Father and Son. I suggest you read your Bible and stop going with what you believe or were taught (it is WRONG).
---Leslie on 4/19/11


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I have no clue but I will tell you this. I rented an apartment while living with my mother. She called me a sneek and said I didn't tell her I was moving out. Oh but I did tell her and called a few places while sitting next to her. I asked her, "What are you going to tell God on Judgement day when he asks you, "Why did you call my daughter a sneek?" My mother said, "I'm going to tell Him because she is a sneek." Now God knows my mother is filled with bitterness and twists the truth, so will she go to hell because the Holy Spirit said to me, "She didn't call you a sneek, she called me a sneek because I led you out of there when you prayed and asked me to." So will my mother go to heaven or hell? Just asking!
---Donna5535 on 4/19/11


Jesus says Judas was "the son of perdition", in John 17:12. Yet, Jesus chose Judas to take care of "the money box" (John 12:6), and Judas stole from it. So, people being with Jesus and Christians does not mean they are saved.

Ananias and Sapphira were with the Apostles in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and they knowingly lied to Peter, thereby lying in fact to the Holy Spirit through Peter, I consider. And they deliberately betrayed trust, by so lying to Jesus' own Family people.

To speak a deliberate lie to a person of the Holy Spirit can in fact be lying through that Holy Spirit person to the Holy Spirit Himself. I can not say a saved person can do such speaking against the Holy Spirit.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/19/11


Why do we continue to not read passages in context?

Acts 4:32 "And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

Congregation of those who believed...

The Scriptures said that they believed.

Good enough for me.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/11


"They lied to the Holy Spirit and were stuck down dead instantly - of course they were NOT saved and went to Hell."
---Leslie on 4/19/11

Leslie, you seem to have some first hand knowledge of who went and is going to hell, perhaps are you running the ticket boot there?

They 'lied'
2 Tim 3:4 Paul speaks of 'traitors', which thing a traitor is, one who beforehand was in confidence and truth of the same persuassion.
Ananias and Sappira were in common with the rest of the disciples. They belonged to the same persuassion, confidence and truth. Just like Judas. How can one 'betray' that of which he is not a part thereof?

Come back Leslie. Walk away from that proximity to the gates of hell...
---Nana on 4/19/11


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They lied to the Holy Spirit and were stuck down dead instantly - of course they were NOT saved and went to Hell.
---Leslie on 4/19/11


1 Corinthians 6:9_10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We are told how to act and what repercussions may come from them. We may admonish one another, steering each other along the narrow path but the end of the road it is God's.On the other hand the fixation on this state of 'being saved' and it's peddling I find not conducive to any good...
---Nana on 4/19/11


It's not up to us to decide who is in hell.

I believe this is the context behind, "Judge not, and you will not be judged."
---Cluny on 4/19/11


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