ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Covenants For The Church

There are many covenants listed in the Bible. Which ones still pertain to the church?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Christian Living Quiz
 ---leonia on 4/19/11
     Helpful Blog Vote (1)

Post a New Blog



Galatians 6:16 And all who will behave in accordance with this rule, peace and mercy be on them, and on the Israel of God.


The word "and" (kai) can be interpreted in two ways: (1) It could be rendered as "also" which would indicate that two distinct groups are in view, namely "all who will behave in accordance with this rule" and "the Israel of God." Or (2) it could be rendered "even," which would indicate that "all who behave in accordance with this rule" are "the Israel of God." In other words, in this latter view, "even" = "that is."

NET Bible footnote.
---leej on 5/15/11


If, as Paul writes, God is the savior of all mankind, then all mankind must eventually be saved. Otherwise, Paul has made a false statement. Simple as that.
---John.usa on 5/15/11


Trav:

I am a Canadian living in the United States. I have lived almost 3 decades in each. I have never seen "nth" and "sth" as abbreviations on common use in either one, while "N." and "S." are used regularly in both.

As far as truth being established by two or three witnesses, I have long believed that, and stated so on these forums many times (mostly in replies to Eloy, whenever he makes outlandish claims with no corroboration).

I usually post one scripture in support of a point (mostly because of the 125-word limit), but many valid points have multiple ones that can be provided in subsequent posts for corroboration.
---StrongAxe on 5/15/11


//"Israel of God" ( Galatians 6:16). made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah//
Where do you find this wording?
---michael_e on 5/15/11


They are not all Israel who are of Israel, (Romans 9:6). There is an Israel of the flesh ( 1Cor. 10:18) and an "Israel of God" ( Galatians 6:16). made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. To apply the "all Israel" which "will be saved" to a group of Jews or Israelis "who are separated from God's Church" is to deny the Wall Breaker's specifice and staggering accomplishments on the Cross.
A Jewish council of believers convened in Jerusalem to discuss "the Jew-Gentile issue" Acts 15. Finally the Spirit of the Lord broke through the fog and revealed what had been accomplished by the Messiah.
There is only One Way to heaven, through Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 5/15/11




Trav, interesting evasion. We can just leave it at that.
---John.usa on 5/14/11


Evasion? Asking for scripture witnesses?
Desiring to see what I might be missing? Sincerely. i'm three scriptures to your one ahead......if one weighed truth this way.
In a searching for clarity, it suggests that your one may not be understood in the context you are reading it in.
i like to know when scripture is rebuking what i believe.

Scripture with multiple witnesses,Prophets/Apostles/Christ can be trusted with ones whole heart. Men distorting/contorting/exhorting one scripture can't.

hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, ....
---Trav on 5/15/11


Good point francis.

Trav
I would like to point out there are 12 tribes and two stated with Jerboam not just one.
---Samuel on 5/14/11

The point? Judah...does not equal all Israel. Many times it is these "Lost Sheep" N.House being spoken of. Not Judah.

Francis's point is multiple times witnessed. House of Israel "and" Judah.

Two you mention separated from the "ten" are Judah and 1/2 of Benjamin.
It is thought and taught that most of the Apostles were from the Benjamin portion. It is unknown. A clue may be in Matt 19/Rev. Each Apostle of the "12" is representative of his own line in Israel. Each will set at their gate judging the twelve as they enter.
---Trav on 5/15/11


Trav:
....your use of cryptic and non-standard abbreviations like "nth" for "north" Also, one can often conserve space by keeping personal comments to a minimum.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/11

Sorry....didn't consider you're UK.
I agree on personal comments to minimum.
Comments should be 2A point with 2 scripture witnesses supporting message. Agree?

Started out with this in mind and fell off the wagon somewhere along the road myself.
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Hebrews 10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
---Trav on 5/15/11


Trav:

Perhaps Samuel's confusion is not with the Bible, but with your use of cryptic and non-standard abbreviations like "nth" for "north" and "sth" for "south". The first time I saw you use such abbreviations, I had no idea what you meant either. "N." and "S." are both shorter, and are in common use. I can understand having to tighten up one's writing to be able to fit in the 125-word limit (I run into this all the time), but that can usually be gotten around by eliminating filler words like "that", "the", etc. Also, one can often conserve space by keeping personal comments to a minimum.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/11


Trav, interesting evasion. We can just leave it at that.
---John.usa on 5/14/11




Good point francis.

Trav I had read the passage you spoke of but I had not though of it the way you do. I would like to point out there are 12 tribes and two stated with Jerboam not just one.

The 10 tribes fell apart when the Northern kingdom fell. But Jewish history records that many moved back to Judah and were there when Nebucanezzar tood them captive.

Now please explain a little more what this means in your understanding. I am not clear on your points.
---Samuel on 5/14/11


You will never find such a thing as COVENANT TO THE CHURCH in the bible. What you will find is a covenant made with Israel and Judah that God will put his laws in their hearts and minds. And thus what you will see is the church of God who has his laws in their hearts and minds obeying his laws and ancouraging others to do so.
---francis on 5/14/11


Trav, then what you are telling me is that one passage of the New Testament cancels out another passage of the New Testament.
---John.usa on 5/13/11

Post the two passages. There will be witnesses somewhere for the passage in the New Covenant Testament "letters".
Hos1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth, and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy, I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people, and they shall say, Thou art my God.


---Trav on 5/14/11


Trav, then what you are telling me is that one passage of the New Testament cancels out another passage of the New Testament. So it goes. :-)
---John.usa on 5/13/11


Trav
I do not know what you mean by the nth Israel.
---Samuel on 5/13/11

The Northern 10 nations of Israel who were separated from Judah/Sth House of David. The Northern Kingdom of Israel that GOD put away/divorced.
You would have to have skipped 1Kings to miss it.
11:31And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:

32(But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
---Trav on 5/13/11


If God is the savior of all mankind, then all mankind must be saved.
---John.usa on 5/13/11

Our GOD is the "only" salvation of many men.

Many is not "All".
Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Luke13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Acts 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
---Trav on 5/13/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


GOD offers salvation to all mankind. Their salvation is paid for and waiting for them. But they can refuse that salvation like you can refuse any gift.

Therefore there is not contridiction.

Trav I have read the entire Bible over ten times in five different translations. I do not know what you mean by the nth Israel. Romans is written to the Church which is part of Spiritual Israel. All of the Bible is written to Spiritual Israel.
---Samuel on 5/13/11


It is somewhat odd and amusing when people explain the passage saying that God is the savior of all mankind by asserting that God is not the savior of all mankind. If God is the savior of all mankind, then all mankind must be saved. Otherwise God is not the savior of all mankind.
---John.usa on 5/13/11


In 1 Tim. 4:10, Paul is not teaching "Universalism" that all men will be saved in the spiritual and eternal sense, since the rest of Scripture clearly teaches that God will not save everyone. Most will reject Him and spend eternity in hell (Matt. 25:41,46, Rev. 20: 11-15). Yet, the Greek word translated "especially" must mean that all men enjoy God's salvation in some way like those who believe enjoy His salvation. Paul's point is that while God graciously delivers believers from sin's condmnation and penalty because He was their substitute ( 2 Cor. 5:21), all men experience some earthly benefits from the goodness of God. No Universal" salvation here.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11


Dear Trav Paul was saying that time for the church and Israel to be one happened at the cross. Read the whole chapter.
Do a quick search of the web.
---Samuel on 5/12/11

Suggest you do a slow read ( twice) of the whole of the Old Testament...ask "the" teacher to see....then read the whole of Romans. Romans is written too Israel. Both Houses Judah and the Nth House.
Then you might give an insight or lesson with a witnesses from scripture.
Until then your hawking an unwitnessed, indoctrinated opinion.
Matthew 15:24 (King James Version)But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 5/12/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


Dear Trav Paul was saying that time for the church and Israel to be one happened at the cross. Read the whole chapter.

There are a number of books written about the fulfilled prophecy of the OT that shows JESUS is the Messian. I believe the clearest is Isiah 58. There is also the passage in Micah about Bethelhem being the Birthplace of the Messiah.

Do a quick search of the web.
---Samuel on 5/12/11


Scripture tells us there is only One Way, is because Jesus is the One Way.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11

A foundational truth.
1 Tim 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Jeremiah 18:6
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
---Trav on 5/12/11


The reason Scripture tells us there is only One Way, is because Jesus is the One Way. No matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile no matter from what nation.
"Behold, and angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying,'Arise, take the young child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word" Matt. 2:13.
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Matthew wrote after (v.14) told Joseph and Mary to remain in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet saying "out of Egypt have I called my son" Matthew was quoting Hosea 11:1 being fulfilled through Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11


Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, without God in the world: ---Samuel on 5/11/11

At what time? This is a prophet go too area for witness. Nth House of Israel...Put Away is subject above.
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, ....
---Trav on 5/11/11


Send a Free Missing You Ecard


The church and Israel are one. So all the convenant apply to us who follow JESUS. But the covenant has changed. We have what the OT promised the Messiah.
---Samuel on 5/11/11

GOD will do what GOD will do.
New Covenant has changed.
If the Old Covenant promised the Messiah...list prophet by prophet what was promised for witness. Anything else is an undocumented opinion and your understanding. Which does not match scriptural witnesses in your words.

Jhn 11:51 This spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation,

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
---Trav on 5/11/11


The church and Israel are one. So all the convenant apply to us who follow JESUS. But the covenant has changed. We have what the OT promised the Messiah.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God, Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
---Samuel on 5/11/11


Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the HOUSE OF JUDAH.

HOUSE OF ISRAEL and HOUSE OF JUDAH.
---francis on 5/11/11


//The covenants were only made with Israel...the complete house of.//

thank you
---michael_e on 5/11/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Another question no one seems to be able to answer.
What covenants do pertain to the body of Christ?
---michael_e on 5/11/11

Ref Isaiah 56:5.

The covenants were only made with Israel...the complete house of.

Cocordance,Everlasting, for-ever, evermore.
Sun and moon...ordinances. Jer33:25.

The New Covenant was made with the same people....that no one is able to find....except GOD.
Ezekiel 37:26
Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 5/11/11


Another question no one seems to be able to answer.

What covenants do pertain to the body of Christ?
---michael_e on 5/11/11


Samuel, yes we agree. Thats the real Israel God was talking about.
John the Baptist understood and boldly preached "faith Lineage." ---Mark_V. on 5/11/11

Remarkable,and scriptural. You, brave enough to go against every prophet,Moses forward. Christ in the New Covenant Testament and Apostles.

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
---Trav on 5/11/11


Samuel, yes we agree. Thats the real Israel God was talking about. John the Baptist understood and boldly preached "faith Lineage." When a group of Pharisees and Sudducees came to question John's right to batpize, the prophet astonished them by shouting, "And do not think to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father" For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bare good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire" Matt. 3:9-10). Clearly natural lineage alone is not enough. Without faith and a spiritual connection with the Almighty, those and others are doomed.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


So Mark I think we agree that through JESUS the church is spiritual Israel by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT.
---Samuel on 5/10/11


Acts 2:36 Therefore let ALL the house of ISRAEL know assuredly, .....
---michael_e on 5/8/11

Exactly. The power of a three letter word.
ALL.
Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

5For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
---Trav on 5/9/11


Samuel 3, There is so much more to read. Paul wrote, "Just as Abraham 'believed' God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness, therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham" (Gal. 3:6-7), Pauls arguement is that because Ahraham was a man of faith, only those who have fiath are his spiritual chidren. This truth is like a key that can open a lock in our heads. What does all this mean? It means that in Matthew's book, Jesus was repeating the history of Israel, point by point, and was overcoming where they had failed. In other words, Christ was showing Himself to be the Primary Israel, the Prince of God, the Victorious One who overcomes all sin.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


Samuel, I'm glad we agree. When Jacob was given the name "Israel" (Gen. 32:28) that name had to do with Jacob's spiritual victory. It meant "Prince with God." In the New.T. that same name is beginning to be applied to one Man, the Victorious One, Jesus Christ, "The Prince of God"
After Israel passed the Red Sea, they spend 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan, He was "let by the Spirit into the wilderness" 40 days (Matt 4:1-2). In history, when God called Israel out of Egypt, He called the new nation "My son" (Exodus 4:22). When Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt I called My Son" (Matt. 2:15).
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


//It is not Israel who truly rejected JESUS. But Jews//

Acts 2:36 Therefore let ALL the house of ISRAEL know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
---michael_e on 5/8/11


Samuel 2: In Matthew 12:16-20 after healing a large number of people Jesus "warned them not to make Him known, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, "behold My Servant, whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased..." Matthew is doing the same thing he did with Hosea 11:1, he is quoting Isaiah 42:1-3, which in the original context, referred to God's "servant" which was "Israel.."My Servant" (Isaiah 41:8). once again under inspiration from the Holy Spirit, the first writer in the New T. said that Isaiah 42:1-3 was being fulfilled by God's Servant Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


Dear Mark 90% agreement. It is not Israel who truly rejected JESUS. But Jews. For not all of those who are Jews are Israel.

We are inheriters and part of Spiritual Israel so Abraham and all those who lived by Faith are our forefathers. Eph 2. We are joined into the tree where branches were broken off because of unbelief. Not a new tree. In the scriptures is JESUS. All scripture points to JESUS.
---Samuel on 5/7/11


After calling Jesus the "Seed" Gal. 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his Seed" were the promises made", ....---Mark_V. on 5/6/11

Misusing/abusing the "one" seed.
Applying as you do, you disiherit all the worthy Israelites before Christ. Moses,Prophets etc.
This idea of the phrase is that the one seed is through Isaac. Not Ishmael.

Your doctrine finds it necessary for Israel who GOD loved, to be disposed of. The opposite is found easily. By the Prophets,Apostles and Christ. Words "For-ever,Everlasting are foundational and unmovable.
Eze16:60
Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
---Trav on 5/7/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


Samuel, Israel of the O. T. rejected Christ. We are the "Spiritual Israel of God" Of the household of God. Not the household of Israel. In the N.T. After calling Jesus the "Seed" Gal. 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his Seed" were the promises made", Paul told his Gentile converts, "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed" (Gal. 3:29). Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to the One Victorious Man, the True Seed, Jesus Christ, but also to those who belong to Christ. Believers in Jesus are infused into the "Seed, Christ Jesus" in other words, believers are part of God's spiritual Israel, the True "Seed".
---Mark_V. on 5/6/11


Good question
---michael_e on 5/6/11

Again, I am saved like everyone else who will be saved: Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

But does being saved by Grace through faith give me authoriy to sin?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

THEREFORE I ASK:shall we transgress the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

Romans 3:31 God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---Francis on 5/6/11


Then the question that people ask, is : "how can you keep the law?" My answerr is not by my own power / flesh!!

BUT

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Philippians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world,

Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life, that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
---francis on 5/6/11


//If so, how did you become SAVED?
---Rob on 5/5/11//

Good question
---michael_e on 5/6/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


---Rob on 5/5/11
Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

like all those who will be saved, I too am saved by grace and NOT by Keeping the law of God.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

HENCE:
Romans 6:15 shall we transgression the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
---francis on 5/6/11


And if you tell us you never sin your telling us a lie, .
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11

I think you are saying and seeing things which I have never posted. Where and when did I ever say that I have never sinned?

I was raised as a Roman Catholic. I have had Black pudding. I have ignored some of the commandments of God, namely the 4th and 2nd.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So I have repented for my sin, and no longer live in sin.

Where did you get the idea that I have never sinned?
---Francis on 5/6/11


When Paul wrote that "all Israel will be saved," he didn't mean that at some point every Jewish person would find salvation, for in the same chapter he wrote, "if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them"
there's that word "if."
---Mark_V.

Good point I agree. In Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

We are now part of Israel and as such under the New Covemant. Read Hebrews.

Christians want to follow GOD and keep his commandments. First John.
---Samuel on 5/6/11


// God's covenant people are only those from Israel and Gentiles that repent//

MarkV can you show any scripture that says the Church the body of Christ is under any covenant?
---michael_e on 5/6/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


Michael e, God's covenant people are only those from Israel and Gentiles that repent. For not all Israel is Israel. "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake. for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
When Paul wrote that "all Israel will be saved," he didn't mean that at some point every Jewish person would find salvation, for in the same chapter he wrote, "if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them"
there's that word "if."
---Mark_V. on 5/6/11


Francis, are you SAVED?

If so, how did you become SAVED?
---Rob on 5/5/11


francis: "BUT, if you do these you areunder grace:
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

That makes mlittle sense since we do not earn grace, it is the UNMERITED favor of God
---Christina on 5/5/11


---Rob on 5/2/11
So as you can see, people deceive themselves.

If you do these you are under law:
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

BUT, if you do these you areunder grace:
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

Those with wisdom can see through that
---francis on 5/5/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


Francis, The Ten Commandments are laws, but so are all the others. And if you tell us you never sin your telling us a lie, the word is not in you if you claim you don't sin. You are no different then any other believer, but insist you do not sin.

"If we say we have no sin (now listen to this) we deceive ourselves, (and much more) and the Truth is not in us"

The Truth has to be in you in order to admit you are a sinner. Christ is the Truth. He is not in you if you say you don't sin. Then He says,

"If we say that we have not sinned, (now listen again) we make Him a liar,(and much more) and His word is not in us"

He is the Word francis.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11


---Rob on 5/2/11
Well let me ask you this:
Do you think that a christian who does not murder, does not steal, does not lie, does not covet, does not dishonour his parents, does not take God's namein vain, does not commit adultery, does not worship dsols is under the law and not under grace?
Does it not seem strange to you that a person can keep 9/10 of the commandments and be under grace, but if he keeps 10/10 he is under law?

I keep the commandments because I love God. And i keep all of them, because if I choose to break one commandment, I am then guilty of breaking the whole law. Agreed?
---Francis on 5/5/11


// God's Covenant was with Israel and Judah.//

Rob you are absolutely correct. Israel is and always will be Gods covenant people, not the Church.
---michael_e on 5/5/11


Rob 2: In the Old Testament, God definitely called "Israel.. the seed of Abraham" Isa. 41:8). In Galatians 3:16, Paul plainly wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many" but to "one..who is Christ" It means when Paul looked back-just like Matthew did, at Old Testament statements about "Israel" he saw them as inherently foreshadowing the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. To Paul, the Messiah is the "Seed" Jesus Christ is the perfect Israel. In Genesis and Exodus, the name "Israel" not only referred to one victorious man, to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is revealed in the New Testament. Right after calling Jesus the Seed
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


Rob, francis seems to think we, as believers, are along without Christ, having to work to be right with God.
Concering Israel,
Psalm 80:8 "Israel was called a "vine."
Yet Jesus Christ declared "I am the true Vine"
God referred to the nation of Israel as "My son, My firstborn" Exodus 4:22. Yet Paul later called our Messiah, "the firstborn of all creation" Col. 1:15. The prophet Isaiah clearly called Israel, the seed of Abraham" Isa. 41:8. Yet Paul wrote, "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promise made. He does not say, "and to seeds" as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed, who is Christ" Gal. 3:16.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11


Francis, we disagree on most things, but I will admit I agree with you that God's Covenant was with Israel and Judah.

However, this brings up the question why you insist on staying under the LAW WHICH WAS GIVEN TO ISRAEL, along with insisting others remain under the LAW, when we are all now under the DISPOSITION OF GOD'S GRACE.
---Rob on 5/2/11


First and formost, there is no covenant " with the churc." The covenant is with israel and judah.

Second church measn called out ones and that spands the entire bible period both OT and NT:
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
---francis on 5/1/11


The New Covemant is made with Israel. Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Christians are one with Israel. Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us],
---Samuel on 5/1/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


That's quite alright Francis, misunderstandings are bound to occur now and then:o) Thank you for the acknowledgment.
---Josef on 5/1/11


Josef on 4/22/11 I think I missunderstood your post, you do belive that the covenant made with abraha and the fathers do ally to the church. I am sorry I missunderstood you
---francis on 4/26/11


---Josef on 4/22/11
I am very hurt that you would say that the covenant made with Abraham and the fathers do not apply to the church today. No other covenant could apply more

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:15 Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
---francis on 4/26/11


The 10 commandments still pertain to the church. They were agreed to be kept by Israel who at that time was the Kingdom of God. God never changes and so to enter into the Kingdom today you must agree to keep his commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. See Rev. 12:17, Matt. 5:18-20 and Rev. 14:12. This is the only way you can enter His Kingdom.
---barb on 4/26/11


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


Totally agree and that would mean we are not subject to the tenets of the Old Covenant given ONLY to the Hebrew nation at Mt. Sinai.
---leonia

No it does not. Sin is defined by the law Romans 7 I john. We are saved by Grace. Also the everlasting covenant was first promised to Adam and Eve. All the following covenants gave more information and enhanced knowledge of it. The New and Old are continutions with more detail of the Everlasting Covenant. So it is stil a sin to make graven images and worship them, lie steal and sleep with animals.
---Samuel on 4/26/11


josef **"Which ones still pertain to the church?"
The everlasting covenant established with Abraham as Father of many nations .

Totally agree and that would mean we are not subject to the tenets of the Old Covenant given ONLY to the Hebrew nation at Mt. Sinai.
---leonia on 4/22/11


"Which ones still pertain to the church?"
The everlasting covenant established with Abraham as Father of many nations
In the words of our Father "I will establish My covenant between Me and 'you' (Abraham) and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you." "To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, the covenant he swore with an oath to our ancestor Abraham. To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear."Via his seed" who is Christ." Gen 17:7>Luke 1:72-74>>Gal 3:16
---Josef on 4/22/11


Covenant of grace - the relationship into which God entered to provide, by grace, the promise of salvation to sinful humanity. It extends throughout the OT by means of various covenants to its final fulfillment in Jesus Christ. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms

Covenant of works - Theological description found in some streams of Reformed theology to describe Gods initial covenant with humanity (Adam) before the fall into sin. A perfect relationship with God could be enjoyed if humans maintained a perfect obedience to Gods law. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms.
---leonia

Thank you Leonia I stand corrected. Pre fall man is different. He was already perfect and just need to stay that way.
---Samuel on 4/22/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Covenant of grace - the relationship into which God entered to provide, by grace, the promise of salvation to sinful humanity. It extends throughout the OT by means of various covenants to its final fulfillment in Jesus Christ. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms

Covenant of works - Theological description found in some streams of Reformed theology to describe Gods initial covenant with humanity (Adam) before the fall into sin. A perfect relationship with God could be enjoyed if humans maintained a perfect obedience to Gods law. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms.
---leonia on 4/21/11


Well, what do we have as our covenant with Jesus? Not only with what scholars can understand, but how Jesus would have us understand ourselves with Him.

It says, "Then He appointed twelve, that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach," (Mark 3:14) So, first was their love calling . . . to "be with" Jesus. Therefore, I consider and offer, a true calling of Jesus is not first or only to "serve" Jesus, but "be with Him" in His love.

So, this personal love purpose could help make clear what is our covenant with our Groom.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/21/11


No one is saved by works. GOD never established a covenant of works with anyone. David, Abraham all were saved by Grace alone.

There are two main covenants in the Bible. We call them the Old and New which is not a bad definition. Both are centered in JESUS.

The Old is JESUS coming as shown in shadow and prophecy or JESUS hidden. But their faith is in the Coming Messiah whose blood is that of the true Sacrificial lamb.
The New is JESUS revealed of who JESUS is and what He did to save us and all those down through the ages who have believed in him. But it still is not complete until he comes back to take us home.
Both of these are based on the Promise GOD gave to all mankind in Genesis and renewed after Noah.
---Samuel on 4/21/11


**the new covenant is not a covenant of grace. We are saved by grace, but thats not the covenant we made.

Please explain as Easton's Bible dictionary explains in full the distinctions between the covenant of works and the covenant of grace.

And we also see this distinction in the Westminster confession.
---leonia on 4/21/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


the new covenant is not a covenant of grace. We are saved by grace, but thats not the covenant we made with God
---mike on 4/21/11


While we can see mentioned several covenants in the Bible, theologians generally break them down into just 2 - the covenant of works and the covenant of grace.
---leonia on 4/21/11


The Old and New Testaments or Covenants ALL Believers MUST still follow today if they have a Covenant relationship with Christ. Anything outside of that is a man-made covenant and does NOT need to be followed, and infact according to God, should NOT be followed.
---Leslie on 4/20/11


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.