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Free Will In Heaven

Will we still have free will in heaven? Or will we not need it there?

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 ---Geraldine on 4/20/11
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Willa, no one has free will but God. He does as He pleases with His creation. Man has a will but it is not free. Men's intentions are not pure, only God's are pure. You probably mean that man has a choice, he is free to make choices, but his choices are corrupt because his will is in bondage to sin while lost, and when his born of God, his release from the bondage, but still sins, his flesh has not been redeemed. It is sinful. Concerning Matt. 18:14, "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish"
Is not talking about the lost, but about the sheep that went astray. "He rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray."
---Mark_V. on 5/1/11


Mark, you cant hold the truth of God claiming you know what God has said, if you cant even speak the truth as to what others here have said.

Noone has said God CANT impose his will on us. The disagreement is about what His will is!

You, my friend, are a liar, a guiltmonger and a manipulator. What little respect you may have here, you will find quickly slipping away if you continue with putting words in others mouths. You remind me of a teenage girl. Are you a sheep or a wolf in sheep's clothing?

There are many here who disagree and still show respect for one another. Apparently the necessity of such a thing evades you. If you dont give respect, you wont receive it.
---jacqueline on 5/1/11


I think part of the problem is that we like to take full credit (but seldom full blame) for all our decisions.

But many things influence our choices whether we recognize them all or not. I have no doubt that God can sovereignly incline peoples' hearts toward Him. Of course He doesn't force Himself upon anybody. A person can, and many do, say "no".
But since the bible tells us 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned It's logical (to me) to believe that God influences the thinking of even the unbeliever.
---Donna66 on 5/1/11


Mark,

Because a person believes the gospel does not mean their works save them. We are saved by grace, which is a gift from God. Does He say you WILL receive my grace because I said so. If that is so it's not a gift any more because you have no choice to chose it. Did God force Adam to sin? Did Jesus force Gods will on people that were healed, regardless of wither they believed or not? Without faith it impossible to please God, read Hebrews chapter 11. Faith is trust not something you have no choice in. Notice it says we must BELIEVE He exists and must SEEK Him. Can God force His will? Of coarse. But then it is no longer love but orders, and that is not the kind of people He wants.
---willa5568 on 5/1/11


Alan, what lies? When I answer I'm responding to all the answers all of you have given. You insist on your own free will. Others say, God cannot impose His will on them. All of you together make one group. And if you go back before you started complaining AGAIN, you said I constantly lied about you, when I never addressed you one time. You lied again. I'm not afraid of those who claim they came to Christ out of their own free will if they are really saved, because that is a contraction to the Truth. Salvation is all of the Lord by the Lord. Salvation is not a human enterprise. Human beings cannot save themselves. Salvation is a divine work and it is accomplished and applied by God. It is both of the Lord and from the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11




What I find absurd is when people are saved by the great mercy of God and they turn around and claim they came to Christ out of their own free will, really, their own works because God could not impose His powers on them because He has no right to do so. They deserve their rights because God gave them that power while lost and in rebellion against God.
It is absurd. Just admit you came out of your own works. Why cover it up. It was all of you. God should be so happy you chose Him. Be joyful and happy you were smart enough to do what so many others cannot because most of you are more intelligent then those other dumb ones.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11


Mark,

If I understand what you are saying rightly, then man has no freewill to sin, because God, as it seems you and probably a lot on here, knew man would sin.

Sovereignty is not control over freewill.In a kingdom every subject must chose to follow the kings law or they will be judged as a transgressor and punished. It is Gods sovereign will that every man will accept His salvation, leaving the decision for us to take hold of it.
---willa5568 on 5/1/11


Alan: It should be no surprise to you that people who claim Christianity still lie, when they also claim that the New Covenant frees them from the obligations of the Ten Commandments, and thus its injunction against lying.

Perhaps MarkV thinks he is doing God's work by using Satan's methods. We can only hope that he comes to realize that there will be no liars in heaven - even among the "chosen" ones.
---jerry6593 on 5/1/11


What an absurd thing to say of any Christian "take credit for own salvation".

You are well aware Mark, that none here has ever done that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/30/11


Mark ... To deal with the first of your lies. I have never "admitted that God cannot impose His will on me to come to Christ"

God is Sovereign, and does what He wants, which includes allowing me freewill to accept His gift, or decline it.

You are the one who uses the word "cannot" about God. You say He cannot be Sovereign unless He imposes His will on me.

It is you who limits God's power.

Your second lie is that I said God is a monster. You know I did not say that. I said that IF He behaved as a dictator, destroying people for behaving as He makes them behave, he would be a monster.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/30/11




Mark ... The third of your lies,

"Many of you deny the fallen condition you were in"

Mark, you know no-one here has denied the fallen state we were in before we accepted Jesus. And only a very few deny that they still sin

Your fourth & Fifth lies ... that we are ungrateful, and that we want the glory for saving ourselves.

You really are twisting words when you claim that "Yes please I will accept your marvellous gift, and Thank you for it" actually means "I am not grateful for your gift, and in fact it is not a gift, for I made it myself"

---alan8566_of_uk on 4/30/11


Mark ... Your sixth lie

That we say God can't do what He wants with His creation.

You know no-one here has said that.

And the word Can't cannot apply to God.

God does what He wants with His Creation

It is you who limits God by saying He cannot allow freewill
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/30/11


John, you are correct again when you said,

"ALL KNEES WILL BOW MARKV. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT!!!"

I sure do. All who take credit for their own works will also bow down and get on their knees. Then they will know who is really the God of Scripture. They will finally humble themselves, to the God of all the world, and give Him the glory for which we were created.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11


These are some of the things you have said I and others say::

God is not Sovereign
God is a monster for saving us
We deny that all have sinned.
Saved person is ungrateful
We want the glory for our salvation
God can't do what He wants with His creation.

When will you withdraw these lies?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/29/11

WOW!!! What a powerful post Alan.
I certainly don't want to be in MarkV shoes when he meets the "unsovereign" King of the Entire Universe.

ALL KNEES WILL BOW MARKV. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT!!!
(The Almighty!)
---John on 4/29/11


1. God is not sovereign:
A: When you admit that God cannot impose His will on you to come to Christ, you become sovereign and God stops been sovereign, for only one can be sovereign. God never stops been God.

2. God is a monster:
A: That is what you said, those words came from you.

3. we deny that all have sinned:
Many of you deny the fallen condition you were in, when you say you have the power within you to come to Christ. God says no. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

4. Saved person is ungrateful:
A, since you claim to be save, you refuse to give God the glory for saving you, for you insist you came on your own free will.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/11


You are still in denial. You receive Christ by your own merits when you insist that God cannot impose His will on you. That surely means you want your own right to do what you want. And God is hoping in man, instead of man hoping in God.
No matter how you cover it up, no matter what you say or feel, it will not change the fact that God has to make us willing. And if God does not make us willing you will remain heading to hell in a basket.

As for what Samuel said, been born of God is been under the guide of the Holy Spirit because we are now slaves to Christ. If you sin with impunity, you are a slave to sin, and not under the supervision of the Lord. And still a slave to sin. There is a difference Samuel, Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/11


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All those under the Law are condemned already. No amount of merits we do can save us. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can bring life to a sinner who is condemned already, and make him righteous before God.
---Mark_V.


True. But remember this also.
Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

A person cannot live in sin and still be saved. We are to die to self and live to JESUS.
---Samuel on 4/29/11


Jerry, it is well said of Alan for you because it falls right with what you believe, Works for salvation. Your own free will. This way you can continue to criticize those who don't do Saturday Sabbath, and the reason you throw the law at everyone. You want them to be under the Law and not under grace. You want us to convert to your legalism. Sorry, we prefer to be under Grace, and not under the Law.
All those under the Law are condemned already. No amount of merits we do can save us. Only the power of the Holy Spirit can bring life to a sinner who is condemned already, and make him righteous before God.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/11


MarkV You insist that Freewill equals relying on our own merits. But it is not. Now, we have to accept that we differ on predestination and freewill.

My worrry about you is why you can't argue honestly ... why you have to make up lies about what we have said.

These are some of the things you have said I and others say::

God is not Sovereign
God is a monster for saving us
We deny that all have sinned.
Saved person is ungrateful
We want the glory for our salvation
God can't do what He wants with His creation.

When will you withdraw these lies?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/29/11


God is Sovereign,

Your perception of the Sovereignty of God differs from mine.

Your doctrine says that God is not able to allow freewill.

Not able? God is able to do everything!

My perception is different, and is that God is so great that he is able to grant freewill.

As I say our perceptions differ ... But do not lie and say I deny the Sovereignty of God
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/29/11


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Alan, your in denial." You admit, with your own words you came to Christ out of your own free will. Which is your own merits. And that God did not make you willing to come to Christ." it was all of you because God cannot impose His will on you. Suggesting, something inside of you which was there all your life, somehow appeared and made a decision towards Christ that others didn't do.
That is an admission of your believes.
I gave Scripture, you gave nothing but your own feelings and remarks. Denying that God had anything to do with you coming to Christ is admitting you are sovereign unto yourself, to make the choice you made. And you claim no such thing, that is complete denial. A then cover up with every answer you give.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/11


//It is wrong, and will always be wrong, to make up lies about your opponent to support your own argument.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/28/11//

Well said, Alan!


---jerry6593 on 4/29/11


I think the parable of the sower explains mans free will to receive or reject. God called Israel and they were set apart from all other people but they were stiff necked. They chose to reject God even though he constantly held out His hand to them.
---willa5568 on 4/28/11


Mark ... I have never slandered you ... The word "heretic" was over the top, when all I was talking about was your saying God has rights, when my view is He does not since there is no-one to give Him those right. He does not need them. I am sorry you will not allow me to withdrw the word

But you have continually slandered me (and others) by bearing false witness against us, telling everyone here that we have said things that we have not said, such as

God is not Severeign
God is a monster for saving us
We deny that all have sinned.
Saved person is ungrateful
We want the glory for our salvation
God can't do what He wants with His creation.

When will you withdraw those lies?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/28/11


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Mark It is well understood between us that we differ about FreeWill and Predestination. That has to remain the situation.

You will continue to point out the error of the Freewillers' belif, and they will continue to put their point.

That is legitimate argument.

It is wrong, and will always be wrong, to make up lies about your opponent to support your own argument.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/28/11


Alan 2: You refuse to believe the Word of God. Yet He says again, "Ye will not come to Me, that you may have life" John 5:40. and again:
"But the Scriptures has confined all under sin" that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law (enslaved) Kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed"
Only saving faith unlocks the door of the prison where the law keeps men bound, "kept under guard by the law"
Paul personifies the law as a jailer of guilty, condemned sinners, on death row awaiting God's judgment (Rom. 6:3)
---Mark_V. on 4/28/11


//Jerry, you are completely wrong. Lost man does not love God - MarkV//

I understand that you THINK that I am wrong because my words conflict with your religion. But, I honestly believe that you are wrong.

Consider:

Rom 12:3 .... God hath dealt to EVERY man the measure of faith.

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was LOST.

It seems clear to me that the Bible teaches that ALL men were given a desire to know God. It is further evident that Jesus' sole mission was for the benefit of the LOST - that they might know and LOVE God. Please explain why you think these scriptures are false!
---jerry6593 on 4/28/11


Alan, you cannot take back what you said about me. You slandered me to show others how bad I am yet you never provided one passage where God said He gave us free will to chose Him. If He had said that, He would contradict His own Word, because our will's were enslave to sin, they were not free. As the bird with a broken wing is "free" to fly but not able, so the natural man is free to come to God but not able. How can they repent of sin when they love it? How can he come to Christ when he hates Him? This is the inability of the will under which man labors. Jesus said, "And this is the judgment, that light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather then the Light, for their works were evil"
---Mark_V. on 4/28/11


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//God has to give him His love first in order for us to love God. "We love Him because He first loved us."//MarkV

Thats one way to interpret that verse. However its not the ONLY way.

When I first heard the gospel and believe it, I knew that God loved me after all I had done wrong to Him. Once I realized that love was unconditional, I love him back.

I loved him because he first loved me.

The verse does not read: I love him because he made me love him.
---Jasheradan on 4/27/11


MarkV ... No-one calls you a liar for the doctrine you hold.

But what can we say about your constant gross misrepresentation of what others say?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/27/11


And Mark, I called you a heretic because you said God had rights.

Rights are given by a higher authority, and there is none higher than God.

So God does not have rights!

What He does have is absolute power and authority ... He does not need rights to exercise that power and authority.

I should not have called you a heretic for implying that there is someone higher than God. We both know there is not.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/27/11


Jerry, you are completely wrong. Lost man does not love God, and cannot possibly create that love in his heart. God has to give him His love first in order for us to love God. "We love Him because He first loved us." No lost person even wants to know God less create in his own heart that love. God is the initiator of His mercy and grace in the divine human relationship: we are respondents to that grace, Believers, particularly those in positions of leadership within the believing community, have a God given responsibility to teach carefully that salvation comes by God's grace, not through man's works, and to distinguish between the holy and the profane.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/11


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Willa, my answers were not meant for you, but for those 7 who oppose God's will in their lives and call me a liar, and a heretic for bringing the Truth to them.
When I answer you, I will quote your name. I love you brother, but with you I have to bring the verses to you so you can see what God's Word has to say to your questions. They will be for you to look at, and do what you will with them. God has a purpose with His Truth. You have never condemned me. Your questions are valid to me and have a good purpose behind them. Blessings to you.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/11


God is Love. Love does not constrain or force anyone to return love. It is Satan who uses force, and would constrain us to serve him and hate God if he could. God wants our love to be GIVEN of our own FREE WILL. Anything less would be tantamount to God using the tactics of Satan to force our obedience - and we would resent Him for it. Which side are you on!
---jerry6593 on 4/27/11


He bears false witness because he has been brainwashed into believing if a person believes God granted us free will that they somehow have blasphemed God's holy nature and sovereignty. He sees everything in black and white. This is what cults do to people. They take away their ability to reason and use fear to keep them from thinking for themselves. We should just pray for him and let him be.
---Jasheradan on 4/26/11


Mark,

I did not condemn you, just presented a question.

If God did impose His will, how could I resist it if He has forced me to do it? My disagreement with you is not about Gods wisdom and power, It is how you view God. It seems to me the God you have presented has no desire for us to chose Him.We have no choice but to love Him because He said so.

Also, I never mentioned anything about my merits.

I don't wish to argue with you, nor do I condemn you as if I can not be wrong. I hope you will do the same for me.

P.S. I have studied the Bible many years and read many scholars writings, and have seen many errors in my understanding of Gods word. I would encourage you to do the same.

Gods blessings
---willa5568 on 4/26/11


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What I see a clear act of denial. And condemn me for making you aware of the Truth.
You argue because you want the right to chose Christ, with your own free will, your own merits, you refuse to allow God to impose His will on you. Darkness cannot come to the light. God's word says, unbelievers love darkness, they don't love Christ who is the light. Complete denial. And justify your actions by questioning the word of God. Paul stated
"And if our Gospel is veiled it is veiled to them that perish, in whom the god of this world (by which he means the Devil) hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them"
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11


Mark,

how do you differentiate changing of the mind from changing of actions, that's not possible. I want you consider this, if God created man and loved him and had no desire for him to die, and said everything was very good, does it seem these things can be if he already had knowledge of what would happen.

Jesus said if God cares for the sparrows, how much more will he care for us. Why would a God who cares for and loves us with a perfect love, do something that is contrary to His nature?
---willa5568 on 4/26/11


MarkV You may hold that view ... That's OK. No-one minnds you holding that view People are allowed to hold different views

But why do you persist in your statements that those who hold the other view:

"fight for your own rights to save yourselves"

say that "God can't do what He wants with His creation"

"deny God's Sovereignty".

No one here has done any of those things. And you know it. So why do you persist in the false witness?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/26/11


The question I think is not what will we chose, but rather can we chose. Does God take away our ability He has given to say yes or no, I think not, though I do believe those who are in His kingdom have no desire to disobey after receiving such a great gift. Another thing to consider is what happened with Satan. He was also in Gods kingdom, yet he and the angels that followed him chose to reject God. During this time there is no mention of sin until after his rebellion. Why would it be any different for us?
---willa5568 on 4/26/11


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Condemn me again if you want, but I speak the truth from the very word of God.

Did anyone of you use your own free will to come to Christ?

"All of you who condemn me with your theology say yes."


You love your free will. None of you want God to have that right.
None of you want God to get that glory. All of you who are called Christians already, fight for your own rights to save yourselves. Makes you smarter then those who didn't want to use their own free will, since you will receive eternal life and they won't for been stupid with their free will. You are saying darkness came into the light instead of light coming into darkness.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11


Lucifer (satan) and his partners were in heaven when they chose to rebel...does that not clue you in to the fact that free will will always be the choice of man and angels??
---1st_cliff on 4/26/11


Willa, I'm surprise you ask me those questions you should know already. I will answer some for if I go through all it would take much time.
With the first one as with most all of them, you acknowledge that God is not "Omniscience," "Knowing all things." You believe He is learning as He goes as if He was a Person of time. You suggest that He didn't know man would sin. And we know Christ was foreordain as a sacrifice for sin from the foundation. Why? Because God knew already they would sin. Why do you think all descendants of Adam are heading to hell? Because it was He who put the Curse. And again God never changes His mind, He changes His actions. He is "Immutable" "For He never changes"
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11


MarkV must have a limited understanding of language, or he is telling deliberate porkies.

No-one No-one, no-one has said that God can't do what He wants with His creation. Oh, Sorry, Mark has said that, because He has said that God cannot allow freewill.

Others have the truth, that there is no question of "can" ... God does what He wants with his creation, and that includes allowing freewill
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/25/11


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Mark,

If you feel God knows all things and nothing can put a kink in His plans, I would like you to explain why God asked Adam where he was, why was He sorry he made man, why does He change His mind about things He said He would do. Did God create man knowing He would sin, yet it is not His will that any man should parish. Was it His will for man to die. I think you should consider God as a master chess player, who has already prepared for what His opponent will do. So His plan He had at the beginning will be has He created it to be. It was not His will for man to sin but was prepared for it if He did.
---willa5568 on 4/25/11


When a person tells the world, that only a monster would create a world where He can do as He pleases with His creation, that person does not know the God of Scripture. For,

"All things are subject to His immediate control: "All things" are moving in accord with His eternal purpose, and therefore, "all things" are "working together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." It must be so, for "of Him" and through Him, and to Him are all things" Rom. 11:36. They affirm again and again that God is on the throne of the universe, that the Sceptre is in His hands, That He is directing all things "after the counsel of His own will"
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11


/And all those who believe that God is monster for saving them...//MarkV

A master at twisting the words of others to get a rise out of them. By their fruit you shall know them.

I think everyone here except Mark knew what Alan meant. So either Mark is completely ignorant or he is just here to cause dissention.

Don't take the bait, Alan.
---Jasheradan on 4/24/11


Very wise words Jasheradan! I'm beginning to realize that is exactly what is going on.

Don't take the bait anyone. Or else YOU will be the one getting bashed for calling out markV for twisting your words. Only certain people can actually see beneath the surface here and know what is going on.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11


Mark ... Again you misrepresent what others say!

No-one believes that God is a monster for saving them.
No-one denies that all have sinned.
No saved person is ungrateful

But ... You claim that God planned the Fall ... that means we are all sinners, because God caused us to be sinners.

You also say that God only allows certain people the opportunity to repent. That means the rest are not allowed by God to repent. And so they have to go on behaving sinfully as He has made them behave.

Then your God calls that "disobedience" and punishes them for behaving as He has made them behave.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/24/11


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//And all those who believe that God is monster for saving them...//MarkV

A master at twisting the words of others to get a rise out of them. By their fruit you shall know them.

I think everyone here except Mark knew what Alan meant. So either Mark is completely ignorant or he is just here to cause dissention.

Don't take the bait, Alan.
---Jasheradan on 4/24/11


alan8566 of uk,

I have been reading a book called "the God who takes risks". I have always been told the very thing most on this blog say. But I am not so set in what the church teaches that I cannot hear things that differ. I agree 100%, for God to create man already knowing (as I have heard some say) every detail. To take away the will of man to believe or not, and think a God who is said to, not want any man to parish, greatly perverts what the bible teaches about Him. I would suggest those who disagree to research it yourself. I would also like to point out this doctrine God predetermining everything came from a man who had people put to death that disagreed.
---willa5568 on 4/23/11


Those who are saved, are very grateful that they are, because without God they would have continued their path to hell. When they were lost they thought they didn't need help." And all those who believe that God is monster for saving them, and taking them out of the path of hell, have no business in the Kingdom of God." They do not appreciate what God did for them. And if they think He is a monster, they could not be possibly saved. Jesus said, "Everyone who is of the Truth hears My voice" Only those who already belong to God, hear Jesus voice. No fallen person belongs to the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/11


I believe that people refuse to believe in the Word of God, because in their minds, they have formed a god that will fit their believes. They refuse to believe the Word of God no matter how many times God tells them something.

"Therefore just as through one man sin entered the world, "and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" Rom. 5:12. There is no exceptions on this passage.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Rom. 6:23.
All men born after Adam's fall, are dead because all sin. No exceptions. They all need Christ to remove their condemnation. Of themselves they are unable to do that.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/11


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Geraldine. My God is the same God as yours.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/23/11


Of course men can make Godly decisions, Mark, but it doesnt nullify the evil they have already done.

I am simply baffled at how any child of God thru Jesus Christ could suggest that all men are born in sin thru no fault of their own but God would condemn then for it anyway.

Because of Adam's sin we are born naturally inclined to do evil. Because of Christ's righteousness we can be REBORN to be inclined to do good.

If we reject that offer, we are judged.

I dont know how you miss this in scripture.
---Jasheradan on 4/22/11


//Geraldine, there is no free will in heaven or free will in life.//MarkV

The major problem here is Lucifer had free will. He wanted to be equal with God. But yet here we have man (created in the image of God and after his likeness) that has NO free will? What nonsense.

No free will is the popular viewpoint of people who want to take the responsibility of their own actions and place them on God under the guise that they are somehow honoring Gods complete sovereignty. You people are only lying to yourselves.
---Jasheradan on 4/22/11


alan8566 of uk, Thank you so much. Your words make me realize more than ever how much I love God and thank him for giving Jesus to make it possible for our sins to be forgiven. I pray that you will come to believe that God is Love. God has given you gifts the world needs from you. We are all brothers, as His children.
---Geraldine on 4/22/11


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Geraldine ... it seems that before the creation of the world, God, being omnipotent and planning everything that happens, He planned the Fall, thus ensuring that all subsequent men would go to Hell, except those few whom he would save.

Fine, it makes those saved very grateful for being selected, but it's hard on the vast majority whom God allowed to be born, whilst He knew, indeed planned, that they would have no chance.

It does sound as if He was and is playinig with the thing and people that He created ... a cruel game indeed. But it's all OK because it is done to show His greatness and His Sovereignty.

I don't think I would want to be in Heaven with such a monster!
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/22/11


MarkV, If "man has a will but it is not free" who was responsible for Eve eating the forbidden fruit? Was it a setup by God, to play games with his creation? If what you write is truth, I am missing something.
---Geraldine on 4/22/11


Geraldine, there is no free will in heaven or free will in life. Man has a will, but it is not free. His will is in bondage to sin. Fallen man has the natural ability to make choices but lacks the moral ability to make godly choices. Free will lacks liberty. Jesus taught that man is powerless to come to Christ without Divine aid John 6:65. Before a person can choose Christ he must be born of God. A person who is born again is set free from the bondage that holds him.
The flesh yields only flesh. The flesh Jesus said, profits nothing. If a person is still in the flesh, who is not yet reborn by the power of the Holy Spirit, can incline or dispose himself to Christ, what good is rebirth?
---Mark_V. on 4/22/11


\\So by your own words you end up without free will since your will and G-ds will are the same. \\

The two or three strings to a unison in a piano are three separate strings, yet they sound the same note.

||When you become one with G-d you become G-ds will, substance, and nature. ||

This is the same heresy taught by Baarlam the Calabrian--or rather, his heretical misrepresentation of what Orthodoxy taught that he mocked just as you are doing here--that the Church officially condemned.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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One of the things we are working on here is getting our wills in tune with God's so we CAN live with Him in heaven.
---Cluny on 4/21/11

So by your own words you end up without free will since your will and G-ds will are the same.

In other words HIS WILL be done NOT YOURS.

Just look at what the 24 Elders are doing in Revelation.

When you become one with G-d you become G-ds will, substance, and nature.

Not the other way around. No room for your will in Heaven.

HE IS KING PERIOD!!!
---John on 4/21/11


in heaven your sin nature,and satan will be gone,so decisions of good or bad will wont either cause bad,aka evil wont be in us or around us anywhere.
---tom2 on 4/21/11


Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Our freedom to choose will not lead us astray as it does in this corrupt world.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
---micha9344 on 4/21/11


In Heaven's love, now (Romans 5:5), we are no longer free from God so we can do our own choosing. We gave ourselves to Jesus so we are ruled by Him > "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) If your will is "one spirit with" the Holy Spirit, I can offer that the Holy Spirit is not going to go your way (c: But ones in separation from God's love are free enough to make their own choices. But if we have trusted in Christ > "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) Also > "you are not your own" (in 1 Corinthians 6:19).
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/21/11


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I believe the Lord allows us free will here. However, once we have made it to Heaven it's already done.
---Kimbe7395 on 4/21/11


\\Cluny, I think you have given me a new "slant" on our free will. I had never thought of it as a kind of journey to free will perfection, which will be completed in heaven. Thank you.
---Geraldine on 4/21/11\\

You're welcome.

What Orthodox call "theosis" begins in this life and continues without end in the World to Come. We become more and more filled with God's energies, though His essence is unknowable, since it is infinite.

But this is strong meat.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


There will be free will in heaven. Because only those who want to do his will is going to be there.
---Samuel on 4/21/11


Cluny, I think you have given me a new "slant" on our free will. I had never thought of it as a kind of journey to free will perfection, which will be completed in heaven. Thank you.
---Geraldine on 4/21/11


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Blogger ... You may believe you are a plaything.

I don't, and I am not
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/21/11


Alan8566_of_UK, You are following YHWH's plan for your life so you not following Free Will. You never said yes to Christ because you don't have any choice in the matter, God picked you and gave you his grace and God's grace is irrespirable. God chooses some and rejects others and all this was done billions of years ago prior to creation prior to creation.
---Blogger9211 on 4/21/11


There will be no free will in Heaven, because we will be under a Theocracy (God will govern everything, and whatever He says goes).
---Leslie on 4/21/11


You don't think we become automata in heaven, do you?

God didn't want them on earth. Why would He want them closer?

Of COURSE we will have free will in heaven. What do you think "Thy will be done.... as it is in heaven" means? One of the things we are working on here is getting our wills in tune with God's so we CAN live with Him in heaven.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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Blogger ... So when I said YES to Jesus, I was rebelling against God?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/21/11


As the practice if Free Will is being a state of rebellion against God it will not be found in heaven.
---Blogger9211 on 4/21/11


Leaving aside the question of free will, if the continuity of our humanness is lost in the transition from here to the afterlife, then it won't be us in heaven, but rather someone else.
---John.usa on 4/21/11


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