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Assured Of Your Salvation

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation cannot be guaranteed or assured. 1 John 5:13 states that the letter of 1 John was written for the purpose of assuring believers of the CERTAINTY of their salvation." What do you say, can we be assured of salvation?

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 ---mima on 4/21/11
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Poopsey, you said,

"Donna66: Calvinist's have no need to preach the Gospel since they believe you are saved based on predestination and not acceptance of the Gospel message. Their theology makes the Gospel of no effect."

If you had been following what I said, no where did I say that the elect did not need the gospel. In fact all descendants of Adam are lost, the elect are descendants of Adam. All that are from the elect will hear the gospel, they will receive faith and repentance for it is granted by God and they will believe and commit their lives to Christ. They come from all corners of the world from every demonination, only God knows who they are and the reason we need to preach the gospel truth.

---Mark_V. on 6/10/11


Donna ,we despise the doctrine because it turns some away from Christ, not Mark himself. The same as God despises the sin, but loves the sinner.

Mark clings to the same 10-20 verses and dismisses dozens of others that many different people give him.

You seem like a very wise and loving Christian lady and I think youre just caught up in defending someone that you haven't properly looked into.

From his comments in the past, one can see that MarkV believes it was God's will for us to fall into sin so that he could save some of us. He never had any intention of saving the entire world from the very beginning. The elect will know how good they have it from the suffering they see the damned go thru. That is not true love.
---Jasheradan on 6/10/11


donna66, as one who says they know the doctrine of calvinism, how then can you ask such a silly question. Do you not know the L in TULIP is LIMITED atonement, meaning Jesus only died for His elect and also believes in what is called double election, meaning not only did He chose certain people to salvation He also WITH THAT chose the rest for hell.

Do you really not know what TULIP stand s for? Come on.

What do you think all these conversations everyone having with markv is about" The IDEA if NO free will to Chose Life is that only God can Chose you...and He didn't chose everyone.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/11


Kathr4453--- I don't care what you think about any doctrine, Calvinism of otherwise.
---Donna66 on 6/9/11

Donna, you should care. Have you seen how Paul was over the top when addressing the Galatians, where false doctrine was brought in, undoing all he had delivered to them. How he labored again to form Christ in them. How he suffered persecution for the cross of Christ.

How Peter warns of false teachers brought in.

If someone says they don't care, that says it all.

Those who are Christ's care deeply.

---Greg on 6/10/11


Jasheradan--WHO, exactly did MarkV tell that Jesus didn't die for them?
And when?

If you can't answer this question, why point to him as someone who does this?

You assume, because of his doctrine, that he would. And you tell other bloggers that. Then, after you have said (and sometimes just implied) things about him that you do not know to be true...and made an example of him personally...
you expect him to change and adopt YOUR beliefs.

I don't know Mark. I don't share his doctrinal beliefs. But it sure sounds to me as if he, not just his doctrine, is being targeted.
---Donna66 on 6/10/11




James L -- It's an age old conflict. We are not going to resolve it.
There are more differences between Calvinism and Arminianism than what you mention, but people are most familiar with the eternal security issue.

I'm NOT an Arminian. But I have the same problem with Calvinism that Willa5568 does.
---Donna66 on 6/10/11


If we continue to follow the LORD, and endure until the end of our lives here, then, YES, we can be assured of Salvation in Heaven. But, if, at any point, we stop following the LORD, which is "backsliding", then, we abort our Salvation. If we do backslide, and we want to return to GOD, we can do so. God the Father will gladly receive a returning, wayward child, as the father did to his prodigal son (LUKE 15). But, we must admit, confess and repent. It's about having a continual conscious awareness of (our) sin, our spiritual condition each day, and keeping close accounts with GOD in a Relationship with HIM. And striving to avoid sin and becoming holy as HE is Holy.
---Gordon on 6/10/11


When I see disparaging comments MarkV makes to anyone who disagrees with him, usually throwing in "you are satan's seed, you're of your father the devil, when those verses have nothing to do with the subject matter. .This is witchcraft, and using GOD's WORD to curse another.

Donna66 MarkV does this ALL THE TIME and YOU say nothing.

You are blind to WHO is disparaging others, and yes I am very angry with YOU for always being blind to it, never addressing it, and when brought up, you say you never see it.

You're simply blind donna66, that, or just as EVIL. Either way, YOU are not a friend here to me,(and certainly not God) and vice versa.

donna66, others have addressed you on this as well.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/11


\\Calvinism and Arminism, there are many similarities.\\
---willa5568 on 6/9/11

I have said many times that they both are saying the same thing, only with different approaches.

One says if you don't act right, you lose what you had. THe other says if you don't act right, you never had anything to begin with.

They agree that one must act right or he can't go to heaven. Root, Fruit, what's the difference? Can't get in without good works, according to both. So they agree that faith is not enough, and that leaves both reading only half the scriptures.
---James_L on 6/10/11


I understand her anger Donna, and I believe its a righteous anger although she does take it a bit too far at times.

A brother in Christ tell others that Christ didnt die for them? His poisonous doctrine plants the seed of doubt in the hearts of those who need Jesus Christ that may be browsing these blogs. Of course Mark doesnt believe he could even affect another's chance of salvation because he is sold on "irresistable grace".

He is unknowingly fighting against the same Spirit that saved him, and is stubbornly resisting any plea by us for him to reconsider the damage he is causing.

It leaves one wondering if he is indeed a child of God or a wolf in sheep's clothing. I guess we'll know at the judgement.
---Jasheradan on 6/9/11




why on earth is there so much disrespectful comments on here. There is no need to call out names, there are a lot who disagree with each other.


"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth"
This is how scripture tells us to handle it.

I would also suggest you do a study on the doctrines of Calvinism and Arminism, there are many similarities. Then you can present what each side teaches as a reference to why it is or isn't true according to scripture. Personally though I see to many flaws in pre-election.
---willa5568 on 6/9/11


Yes we can know for sure. (I John 5:13)These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life,
The Lords want us to KNOW. I have a know so salvation. Not a hope so salvation.
---Lisa on 6/9/11


Kathr4453--- I don't care what you think about any doctrine, Calvinism of otherwise. You have a right to your opinion...as does everybody. It's when you make it personal by speaking disparagingly about a third party blogger in the body of your post, that I object. Even once or twice could be overlooked. But repeatedly, it begins to look like a vendetta, instead of a doctrinal discussion. If you note who takes whose "side" (as you sometimes do) it makes things worse.
That's my complaint and my last word on the subject.
---Donna66 on 6/9/11


I find it kind of odd that the writers of the holy scripture led by the Holy Ghost were inclined to add scripture telling us how to KNOW we have eternal life if they all has believed in a random election to salvation...
---CraigA on 6/9/11


poopsey and mima, I totally agree,
My accurance is based on the SURETY of the Civenant. Jesus is that SURETY.

But NOW that I'm saved my accurance is KNOWING His Love as well. God loves all sinners and is longsuffering that all would come to repentance. For God so LOVED the whole world while we were yet sinners, but sinners who have not recieved Jesus Christ have no eternal security, even though God loves them TOO.

Limitee atonement is an evil doctrine, no matter WHO believes it. I detest the doctrine, not the person caught in it's evil grip.

But, when any great discussion takes place that really gets to teh heart of this false doctrine, be sure Donna66 will be there calling you hateful etc, demanding it was a PRONOUN.
---kathr4453 on 6/9/11


Oh Absolutely. For the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are born of God. This life is about assurances of our salvation, however in that assurance it does not mean that we can not lose it once gained. Blessed Assurance Jesus Is Mine! As long as you are participating in your faith, active in the things of Christ, living for Christ, etc that assurance is as real as Heaven. But for those who are sidelines, who try to skirt their way into heaven by hanging on to Hell with one foot and having a hand on Heaven this assurance is not there for it is not one participating in the faith that is in Christ Jesus who laid down His life for sinners. Scorner the cross and its shame to give us such a Great Salvation!
---ivan9398 on 6/9/11


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Poopsie--Based on their doctrine, one might think that Calvinists don't preach the Gospel. But they do. Calvinists preach the Gospel because even the so-called "elect" are not born knowing the truth. Calvinists believe even the "elect" must hear the Gospel and believe it to be saved. They have no way of knowing who the "elect" are...so they preach to everybody.

I'm not saying they are right. But this is how they look at it.
---Donna66 on 6/9/11


Kathr4453-- I never claimed to be an expert in anything, but I KNOW Calvinists preach the Gospel, no matter what you conclude from reading. They may have some different ideas about it, but they do not claim anybody can be "saved" without accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Sorry, but I know what I know from experience. And I'm tired of hearing you bash others who do not believe exactly as you. That seems to be your sole mission on CN and you cannot post without snide remarks about Mark or "Calvinism". I can not make anything more SOUR than your posts already are.

I can only assume that your hostile attitude stems from some bad experience you must have had, and for that I'm sorry.
---Donna66 on 6/9/11


One word in the Bible totally defeats pure Calvinism. And that one word is "WHOSOEVER"
---mima on 6/9/11


Donna66: Calvinist's have no need to preach the Gospel since they believe you are saved based on predestination and not acceptance of the Gospel message. Their theology makes the Gospel of no effect.

They confuse the predestination of nations with individual salvation. They also fail to realize that God wants all men to be saved and that Christ died for all men. They limit the blood atonement of Christ and God's love.

Salvation is assured since Christ is the one who keeps you from falling if you are truly a Christian in the first place.
---poopsey on 6/9/11


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//I am not assured of my salvation(blog subject)because I love God. I am assured of My salvation because of God's love for me, and His continual unconditional love for me.//

Exactly. My security is in knowing He loved me before I ever knew Him and He doesn't change...(not because I'm the "elect" or even lovable in any way) But, never mind, no matter what I say you will find fault with it.
---Donna66 on 6/9/11


donna66, Sitting under A calvinst teacher does not make you and EXPERT on the Calvin Doctrine, and ALL they teach, also preesuming your Maurity and growth in Christ exposes more and more the hideous lies. And No two calvinists believe the same.

So what you do is become a busy body in discussions about SCRIPTURE, defending the person, and not the scripture, and become guilty of turning a discussion to PESONAL attacks, because in YOUR MIND we are attacking the person, and not the scripture. Is it a coincidence that person is ALWAYS MARKV?

Donna66, YOU are guilty of turning more discussins SOUR with your immature and inaccurate imput.
---kathr4453 on 6/9/11


Kathr, it doesn't matter what I answer, your goal is to speak insult me even when you go against Scripture. That is why you put the blog "are some Christian blind?" You were really speaking about me.
Your work is from the darkness. You are so obsess with me that every day and night you dream of how you will insult me, for you cannot get me out of your mind. And when someone supports the Truth that I bring you attack them too. I believe that was the reason we don't hear much from Shawn T. You did the same to him and others. I hope Donna66, Christina and many others don't leave because of you. I feel sorry for you Kathr, for I really don't know what is moving you inside, but let me say, it is not godly.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/11


Kath4453 -- Guess I just can't help paying "devils" advocate (figuratively) sometimes. I've sat under some great Calvinist teachers (long enough to decide I just couldn't quite share their views). So I know what they REALLY teach in their churches (not what your pre-conceived ideas tell you) I was so familiar I can easily slip into talking like one when trying to explain something to you. Sorry for the confusion.

My natural instinct is to defend the targets of hateful
verbal attacks. If MarkV was as bitter and vengeful as you, I might be defending you instead! (I don't know what experience has made you so)
Calvinists regularly preach the Gospel and know God will accept those who truly WANT to know Him. (not everyone does)
---Donna66 on 6/8/11


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Donna66, I realize you say you're not calvinist, but in many many post take the calvin position..like saying, we don't know WHO the elect are...No one makes statements like that unless they are calvinist.

Markv claims that the lost cannot love God, therefore making it impossible for their salvation. He appears to be saying that one must love God first before one can receive His Love/salvation. Or only those whom God loves (the elect only), He's guaranteed to recipicate). That kind of love is perverted. It's not unconditional, but conditional. Jesus death on the cross was unconditional.

John 3:16 does not say,

For God so loved the elect who I assure will love Him back, that to those only will I give the life of My Son.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


Were you addressing this to me? And who is "you all". I'm not a Calvinist...never claimed to be, but I know many of them and don't condemn them.
---Donna66 on 6/8/11

No Donna66, It's the calvinist who condemns the lost.

Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him would be saved.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


//So your whole premise of understanding that verse is perverted, AND your love returned to God is a perverted love as well. It's a smug, arrogant love you all profess you have that is unattainable to anyone but the elect.//

Kathr4453--
Were you addressing this to me? And who is "you all". I'm not a Calvinist...never claimed to be, but I know many of them and don't condemn them.
---Donna66 on 6/8/11


Hairsplitting really gets to me sometimes.
It's argument only for the sake of wanting to be "right" by making someone else seem "wrong"...
Does "for" cancel out "of"?Donna66 on 6/7/11
Donna66,I said the verse says the Love OF God is shed abroad in our hearts. The attributes of God

ROMANS 5:1-7 states we endure trials and tribulations because we have HIS LOVE, assurance, HOPE in our hearts. Nothing can separate us from the LOVE OF GOD.

Please don't put mayonnaise on split ends here.

You weren't agreeing but HAIRSPLITTING OVER FOR and OF.

My original statement was never about OF begetting FOR. You tried to fuse these two together changing the meaning.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


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Donna66, I am not assured of my salvation(blog subject)because I love God. I am assured of My salvation because of God's love for me, and His continual unconditional love for me. There are days I don't FEEL any love, making my love easy come easy go, based on feelings. God's LOVE is not based on His feelings, Mood swings, or hormone attacks. He never gets PMS, or hot flashes. He never gets out of bed on the wrong side, or needs a 20 minute time out while I sit in a corner. God's LOVE is based on who He is, and His promises.

Our LOVE for God can never be measured in any way to His love for us. Do you always keep your promises?

God IS longsuffering, and truly desires all to come to repentance, although all won't.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


Kathr4453. NO, No. I'm not defending anything. I'm agreeing with you!
MY love for Jesus IS after the fact. And that's what the Bible says:

We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:18,19).

I just used my mother as an example. She also loved me before I loved her. That's the ONLY parallel I made. Any other comparison would have been totally irrelevant.

Why do you call this a "gnostic concept"? Jesus died, in the flesh, for my sins, suffered punishment and imputed His righteousness to. He has given me new life and life everlasting.
How could I not love Him?

Just because I sometimes agree with MarkV, doesn't mean you have to make me an enemy...especially when we agree.
---Donna66 on 6/8/11


The Calvinist interpretation of that verse, We love Him because He first loved us is based on "WE US", meaning the elect only. That ONLY the Elect can love God. Markv has made clear the unbeliever cannot love God. So your whole premise of understanding that verse is perverted, AND your love returned to God is a perverted love as well. It's a smug, arrogant love you all profess you have that is unattainable to anyone but the elect.

BUT that is not what is being taught here. WE MUST preach the LOVE of God to the LOST, and know that even if THEY reject His Love, God's love never changes, and what happened 2000 years ago will never change God's express image of Love to all man.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


Donna66's concept is a love after the fact, God's love for sinners is before the fact.

You mother loves you because you were part of her own flesh and blood.

Yet, before we were ever Born Again and became adopted in the Beloved as begotten Sons, God demonstrated His Love towards SINNERS. His love was expressed at Calvary.

Whosoever will, is the call of LOVE to a sinful world.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


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Doesn't seem too complicated to me.
---Donna66 on 6/7/11


donna66, I know you try SO HARD to defend the ridiculous.

Just because YOU loved your mother doesn't mean all children LOVE their parents. Many a child has hated and murdered parents who have LOVED their children beyond even what you mother may have expressed towards you.

God loved us while we were yet sinners, and that LOVE expressed to ALL will not result in ALL loving God!
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


Yes Donna66, and we know that God SO LOVED the World that He gave His only begotten Son. SO THIS is why we Love Him, BECAUSE He forst showed His love to man through sacrificing His only Begotten Son SO THAT we can find salvation in no other.

BECAUSE He forst loved us....must have a root cause of WHERE He showed He FIRST loved us! Not just some gnostic idea..
---kathr4453 on 6/8/11


Yes Mark, and how do we KNOW he loved us?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son..

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

By believing what He has done for us in his Son. That produces a love for Him and a desire for Jesus Christ to be the center of our life. That is why a sinner opens the door of their heart for Jesus. That is what produces the change in them.

"Begging for mercy" wont do you a bit of good if youre not willing to allow God to change your heart.
---Jasheradan on 6/8/11


Hairsplitting really gets to me sometimes.
It's argument only for the sake of wanting to be "right" by making someone else seem "wrong"

My mother is long gone, but I could have said:
I have the love of my mother (she loves me) and the love of my mother is something I have observed all my life.
Furthermore, I have love for my mother (I love her too). Does "for" cancel out "of"?
If I say I love my mother, does that, of necessity, mean I don't have the love "of" my mother, or love towards someone else?

I love her because she first loved me.
"We love Him because He first loved us" 1 John 4:19.

Doesn't seem too complicated to me.
---Donna66 on 6/7/11


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Jesheradan, you said to me:

"You dont speak for every believer."

Of course I don't speak for every believer, I speak for the Truth of Scripture. I gave you the passages and it's up to you whether you want to believe the Word of God or reject it, it's very simple. Your opinion does not change the Word of God. God does not force you to love Him, he makes you able to love Him. All who are lost do not love God.
Love is perfected in us by God because He is love.
"...but he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:18,19).
---Mark_V. on 6/8/11


God is Love. And we are being perfected in His Love. Being perfected means to become more and more like Him, and love as He loves. When we love as He Loves, we too lay down our lives for the lost Just as Jesus did.

I know Jesus asked Peter three times (after Peter denied Him)

John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Love without action is DEAD!


---kathr4453 on 6/7/11


The Spirit brings God's degree of love (which is far greater than our own) into our heart. Scripture does not say (as it seems you're suggesting) that the Holy Spirit brings a love FOR God into us. The Spirit teaches us of our sinfulness before our holy God and our need for his salvation, in which he showed us the greatest love there is: self-sacrifice.

If God has to force you to love him then its not a genuine love and it is meaningless. Surely you know this already.
---Jasheradan on 6/7/11


Romans 5,

The LOVE OF GOD is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Spirit .

BUT then Again, one would indeed have to know the difference between the word "OF" and "FOR".
---kathr4453 on 6/7/11


This challenges my rejection of permanent salvation.

1John 3:6-10 " No one who abides in him keeps on sinning, no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him...Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
---willa5568 on 6/7/11


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//here is why we love God,
"We love Him because He first loved us" 1 John 4:19.
love comes from God as one of the fruits of the Spirit when we are brought to spiritual life.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/11
//

You dont speak for every believer.

The Spirit brings God's degree of love (which is far greater than our own) into our heart. Scripture does not say (as it seems you're suggesting) that the Holy Spirit brings a love FOR God into us. The Spirit teaches us of our sinfulness before our holy God and our need for his salvation, in which he showed us the greatest love there is: self-sacrifice.

If God has to force you to love him then its not a genuine love and it is meaningless. Surely you know this already.
---Jasheradan on 6/7/11


Jesheradan, if you have a question for me, give me Scripture so that I can respond. I do not wish to respond to your opinions. Everyone has one.
Love you said, Here is what God has to say about love,
"But the fruit of the Spirit is Love" Gal. 5:22. "For Love comes from God" 1 John 4:7.
And here is why we love God,
"We love Him because He first loved us" 1 John 4:19.
Without God first loving us, we would never love Him. For love comes from God as one of the fruits of the Spirit when we are brought to spiritual life.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/11


Mark, I dont recall a single verse that says the entire world would reject Jesus Christ using our own free will and that God has to intervene and make us repent and believe.

If you have to make someone love you, then it isnt real love. Its rape. Do you honestly think God needs to rape?

God is able to raise up children out of stones just as Jesus Christ said (Matt 3:9). He doesnt need to force us into anything. He could throw us all away and make new beings to worship him. Why doesnt He? Because He still loves the world, just as his word says He does.

If you take the LOVE out of the gospel truth, it is no gospel at all. It is a giant puppet show. God is love. Love is not self-seeking (1 Cor 13)
---Jasheradan on 6/7/11


Our SURETY, our security, our guarantee is CHRIST IN YOU, the Hope of Glory. Jesus is our blessed HOPE.

Yet I now see others who deny that Christ is in us, or the Spirit of God indwells us, YET are mislead into believing WITHOUT those two FACTS, they are the saved ones going to heaven. THEIR gospel is not based on the Gospel according to the Mystery, but on some presumptuous inclination they were picked out beforehand. While believing they were picked out, profess to have no Christ in them, or The Spirit of God indwelling them.

They're exempt from anything James wrote. They don't need to be tried, that is, being trained up to be perfect and entire lacking nothing.

Let's pray for these mislead souls.
---kathr4453 on 6/7/11


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Matt 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

2Tim 2:12: If we persevere we shall also reign with him.

Romans 11:22: provided you remain in his kindness . . .otherwise you too will be cut off.

Phillipians 2:12: work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

(Part 2) The Bible also says:

1 Cor 9:24-27: "No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified."

1 Cor 10:12: "Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall."
---Philomena on 6/5/11


--kathr4453 I understand Jesus is our security our SURETY. I used to own some oil wells and I well remember having to put up a performance bond to the state of Kentucky when I wanted to cross one of their roads. This performance bond was a form of surety bond. And what it meant was if I could not pay for something that went wrong the bonding company would pay. Jesus has already established our performance bond by his performance , O praise the Lord!!!!
---mima on 5/19/11


mima, have you read where Jesus is the SURETY of the New Covenant?

Does anyone know what the term SURETY means? It means the One who GUARANTEES something.
---kathr4453 on 5/18/11


Mark Eaton,
Good point, and taken to heart.
---James_L on 4/28/11


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Or did your spirit become incensed upon a cursory glance, and you lost all sensibility and reason?
---James_L on 4/27/11

What makes me incensed is the constant division within the BOC.

We fail to recognize that we will be accountable before Jesus for our behavior to "the least of these".

When we divide ourselves by beliefs, we become modern-day Pharisees. We "judge" each other based upon our lack of faith in God, because it is His body not ours. When we divide ourselves we are saying to God, "I know better than you do, and I will take action on your behalf".
---Mark_Eaton on 4/28/11


Leslie, I do not know where you get I'm antijew. Where did you see that? You said,

"Mark V. - Even most "Christians" do not want anything to do with the real God. I would say you are one of them, because you are anti-Jew. NO one who is a TRUE follower of Jesus is anti-Jew, because Jesus was a Jew."

The real Truth is that no genuine believer would make remark like you did without even knowing me. You speculate wrongly. I know Jesus was a Jew. I don't just love Jews, but even love you.
I wish they would all come to Christ just as I would like for all Russians, Mexicans, and every other nation. But they cannot, because they are not willing to.
---Mark_V. on 4/28/11


Mark Eaton,
I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't have you in mind at all when I wrote that. I was using myself as best I could, because I am Pentecostal myself.

I just don't see conditional elements of grace as guaranteed.

Did you read my words that it is only available through Christ?

Or did your spirit become incensed upon a cursory glance, and you lost all sensibility and reason?

I do apologize, though, for offending you.
---James_L on 4/27/11


Your arugment sounds like Pentecostal people who argue that physical healing is guaranteed because of the cross. "By His stripe we are healed". They see it as a guarantee. Same argument.
---James_L on 4/26/11

Please stop using my denomination in your explanations.

If you must use someone to illustrate your answers, use YOURSELF, That is, unless you are perfect. You certainly do have enough pride about your knowledge and discernment. But are these not gifts of God, or did you happen to acquire them yourself?
---Mark_Eaton on 4/27/11


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"There is also an antitype which now saves us-baptism"

He is talking about now, not tomorrow are in the future, but which saves us now. Peter was also not referring to water baptism, (though you did not mention that) but rather a figurative immersion into union with Christ as an ark of safety from the judgment of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/11

Mark, Where does 1 Peter 3:20-21 say 'eight souls were saved by the ark', does it not say " wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water " Peter concludes " baptism doth also now save us"
---Ruben on 4/27/11


Good stuff, Nana
---James_L on 4/27/11


James L, the passages you gave are very true, but I disagree they are not an assurance, for the passage says'

"There is also an antitype which now saves us-baptism"

He is talking about now, not tomorrow are in the future, but which saves us now. Peter was also not referring to water baptism, (though you did not mention that) but rather a figurative immersion into union with Christ as an ark of safety from the judgment of God. Judgment fell on Christ just as the judgment of the flood waters fell on the ark. The believer who is in Christ is thus in the ark of safety that will sail over the waters of judgment into eternal glory (Rom. 6:1-4).
---Mark_V. on 4/27/11


James_L ,

I hold in agreement with you

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
1Tim.1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
---Nana on 4/27/11


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Not unless you can follow all those "IF'S" in 1 John. Try going back and re-reading the passages and pay attention to all the IF'S.
---Philomena on 4/26/11


Kathr,

1Peter 3:21 says that Noah being brought through the flood prefigures water baptism. That baptism saves us through the resurrection of Christ. That bapstism is an appeal to God for a clear conscience.

Just 5 verses earlier, Peter instructed his readers to keep their conscience clear.

Why would they need to keep it clear if it were a guarantee?

Your arugment sounds like Pentecostal people who argue that physical healing is guaranteed because of the cross. "By His stripe we are healed". They see it as a guarantee. Same argument.

It is only through Christ, but not guaranteed.
---James_L on 4/26/11


Leslie,
You are a pot calling a kettle black.

You say Jesus WAS, when He actually said I AM.

I think your Jesus is still dead. Otherwise you would say Jesus IS

No one who is a TRUE follower of Jesus would say He WAS, because that would leave you in IDOLATRY, beccause you are worshiping a God other than the God of the bible
---James_L on 4/26/11


Mark V. - Even most "Christians" do not want anything to do with the real God. I would say you are one of them, because you are anti-Jew. NO one who is a TRUE follower of Jesus is anti-Jew, because Jesus was a Jew. If you do not think so, you are in IDOLATRY, because you are worshipping another God other than the God of the Bible.
---Leslie on 4/26/11


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All unbelievers are uninterested in Christ. None want anything to do with the Lord. They are blind, cannot see, their hearts are at enmity against God. They are children of wrath heading to hell, they have all been condemned already.
Unless God does a supernatural act in their lives they will continue to be uninterested, for they have no fear of God. They are not willing to come to Christ. God along can make them willing. He does not force, but gives them the ability to be willing to come to Christ, when He brings them alive to Christ.
To come to Christ for life, is for the sinner to abandon his own righteousness and be ready to be made the righteousness of God in Christ
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11


A clear conscience is another aspect of salvation (1Pet 3:21). It comes through water baptism. It remains clean as we confess our sins (1John 1:9). Not guaranteed.

Over-simplifying the word "salvation" has caused many to over-complicate the gospel
---James_L on 4/23/11

JamesL, Hebrews states our conscience has been purged by the Blood of Christ, not water baptism,that IS a guarantee. Our salvation as stated by Peter in reference to Noah etc, is a picture of our death and resurrection with Christ.

All those things you mention are the RICHES that are In Christ. And all are certainly guaranteed.

If I were given a car, and it stayed in my driveway, it's still my car, even If I never drove it.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11


\\Over-complicating the simple way to "Salvation" has caused many to lose interest in knowing Christ.\\
---Donna66 on 4/23/11


Donna, my point is found in those words. In scripture, the way to "life" is simple (Rev 22:17), but the way to "salvation" is difficult (Matt 10:22).

Philippians 2:12 says to work out our salvation

1Peter 2:2 says to grow up into salvation

I agree that making "salvation" difficult has led many to be uninterested in Christ. But the bible says that salvation is difficult, so what do we do?

change the wording around to confuse people, or be true to scripture and show a distinction?
---James_L on 4/24/11


I see 1st John as stating many thngs we KNOW is true and that is where our assurance comes in.

It not only has warnings, but those things we witness in our spirit that we are Christ's.

YOU KNOW you have passed from death to Life WHEN you love the brethren.

There is only a true love for those who have also passed from death to Life in Christ. These are the Brethren, those IN CHRIST, members of His Body, as we are menbers of one another, being ONE. That ONENESS with God in Christ Jesus prayed for in John 17.

We are given an anointing of knowing false teachers, and false doctrine. Are we called to love the enemies of the Cross, or enemies of the True Gospel. Well, not in the same sense as John is describing here.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/11


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James L -- So Eternal Life IS Salvation (one aspect of it).The Bible says we may know we have eternal life.John 5:11-12 says
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Over-complicating the simple way to "Salvation" has caused many to lose interest in knowing Christ.
---Donna66 on 4/23/11


1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. "This is the true God and eternal life"
Jesus Christ is also Eternal life.
What other assurance do we need but the Lord Himself. So I stand with what you quoted Donna66 because also we are told,

"..so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, "who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ"
---Mark_V. on 4/23/11


It is very difficult for human beings to discuss, with understanding, the notion of eternity or the eternal. The language itself has no capacity to adequately describe the idea. So, we have to accept the inadequacy of language and the limitations of understanding.

Rather than time, eternal or eternity conveys the idea of being in the presence of God, seeing him and knowing Him in a manner that is simply unimaginable at this time. So, in the context of the insufficiency of language and comprehension, we get a glimpse of the eternal through 1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now, I know in part: but then shall I know even as also I am known.
---Allan on 4/24/11


Eternal life does not always refer to a period of time, for in (v.20) we know that Eternal life is a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ and possessing His nature as (v. 20) explains. And also (v. 11.12). What more assurance do we need? Is something else more sure?
"This things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life," Assurance of eternal life constitutes the first Christian certainty. While John wrote his gospel to bring unbelievers to faith (John 20:31) He wrote the epistle to give believer confidence that they possessed eternal life.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/11


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Donna66,

Having eternal life is only one aspect of salvation.

Sanctification is another aspect of salvation. It is a cooperative aspect of salvation that only happens as we walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh (Rom 6:22). It is even called "eternal life" and is not guaranteed.

Our inheritance is another aspect of salvation, which is attained only if we suffer with Christ. It is also not guaranteed (Rom 8:17, et al)

A clear conscience is another aspect of salvation (1Pet 3:21). It comes through water baptism. It remains clean as we confess our sins (1John 1:9). Not guaranteed.

Over-simplifying the word "salvation" has caused many to over-complicate the gospel
---James_L on 4/23/11


James L --- The Bible says we can know that we have Eternal Life. If that doesn't mean salvation, what does it mean?

Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
---Donna66 on 4/23/11


The Scriptures clearly teach that the Believer's salvation is sure. John 10: 27-29 among other textual references makes this point dramatically clear. God is able to keep the Believer "safe" and the Beleiver can know it.
---Allan on 4/23/11


Mima, 1John 5:13 absolutely Does Not say that we can be assured of "salvation". That is scripture twisting by changing the words.

It says we can know that we have Eternal Life.


We can be assured of a resurrection Romans 5, 1Cor 15.

We cannot be assured of an inheritance Romans 8:17, Hebrews 2

The bible calls both of those "salvation".

So, exactly what aspect of salvation are you asking about???
---James_L on 4/22/11


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Mima: Why do you regularly stir up debate with, and about, the Roman Catholic Church? Doesn't scripture say that stirring up trouble like this is a sin? Don't you have enough to keep you busy with your evangelism ministry and raffling cars?
---Trish on 4/21/11


If you have repented (confessed and turned from your sins), and have believed and confessed Jesus Christ died and rose and is Lord, then you can be assured that you ARE saved (Luke 13:3, 1 John 1:9, Romans 10:9-10). If you have not done this, then according to the Bible, you are NOT saved, and are headed to Hell (Rev. 20:15). That is why we must examine ourselves to see that we are in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5) and to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12).
---Leslie on 4/21/11


Do you have any proof from Roman Catholic sources of your claim about it, mima?

If so, please post it.
---Cluny on 4/21/11


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