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Fulfilled At The Cross

If everything was fulfilled at the cross, then what are we still doing here?

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 ---jerry6593 on 4/27/11
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If everything was fulfilled at the cross, then what are we still doing here?

exactly
---francis on 5/11/11


Mark, when talking to a church He was talking to a group of individuals. This discussion began when I said Jerry was correct in also applying this to individuals.

With Christian Churches (people) who have strayed from the truth and their passion for it, Jesus calls them to repentence. If they don't then they will each surely lose their eternal relationship with Him. But Jesus also calls nonBelievers to confess their sin, accept He died in their place (the wages of sin is death) and thereby come into a forgiven personal and eternal relationship with Him.

I have never said Jesus comments were not directed to the Churches.
---Warwick on 5/11/11


Warwick 2: the passages in 2 Peter 3:9 you took out of context again to proof you are correct, but that is not what the passage indicates, For Jesus when He prayed, He did not pray for the world, but only those who believe John 17:20,21. And in this passages you gave, speaks of believers and those who will believe "Longsuffering toward "Us" the "Us" is the saved, and the people of God He waits for them to be saved. "Not willing that any should parish" The "any" refers to those whom the Lord has chosen and will call to complete His redeemed, since the passages are talking about God destroying the wicked. Peter was talking to believers who were saved already (v. 1).
---Mark_V. on 5/11/11


Now Mark you said "not one believer was found. Zero. If there had been believers, God would not have told them to repent. They were all as filthy as the water.
---Mark_V."

These letters are to churches as you know the word church refers to the called out people of GOD. He is rebuking believers in these letters. If they did not believe then they would never recieve or listen to the letters.

So I do not see how you can make this statement.
---Samuel on 5/11/11


Warwick, that is not what you said, or wanted to imply. He was speaking to the Church. Not one individual. Every letter goes out to the Churches. "I know your works, your labor you patience and that you cannot bear those who are evil" talking to the Church of Ephesus. 2:1,2.
In 2:9 Jesus is talking to the church in Smyrna, the same to Pergamos, the same to Thyatira, the same to Sardis, the same to the church in Philadephia, and the same to the church in Laodicea. Laodicea was the worst, not one believer was found. Zero. If there had been believers, God would not have told them to repent. They were all as filthy as the water.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/11




Mark, you wrote "The calling goes out to all, but Only those who hear will respond with repentance,..." Isn't that exactly what Revelation 3:20 says, what I have said?

Salvation is not offered to some fortunate people and damn the rest. Jesus offers us all salvation ("The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance") but it is up to the individual to accept or reject God's offer.

Isn't this what you are saying?
---Warwick on 5/10/11


--I find no passage that says that. Can you imagine Jesus going around knocking at everyones heart? Like He is trying to come in, and helpless, because people won't let Him in? Do you not know what reprecussions that would bring concerning the deity of God?--MarkV

I still for the life of me can't figure out why you think it makes God look weak for him to afford us the choice of accepting him or not. He is not a tyrant. He is a loving father wanting us to love him back. Not wanting us to serve him because we have no choice.
---CraigA on 5/10/11


"The church at Laodicea was neither cold, openly rejecting Christ, nor hot, filled with spiritual zeal. Instead, its members were lukewarm, hypocrites professing to know Christ, but not truly belonging to him, cf. Matthew 7:21-23...Just like the dirty, tepid waters of [the city of] Laodicea, these self-deceived hypocrites sickened Christ"(John MacArthur, D.D., The MacArthur Study Bible, Word Bibles, 1997 edition, p. 1997, note on Revelation 3:16).

"But what about spiritually understanding it. What about applying a little wisdom from what is read?" Steveng

They read 'commentaries' rather than the Bible and dull their otherwise God given understanding, "Having the understanding darkened".
---Nana on 5/10/11


Warwick, you do not want to follow me because you want the context of the passages to say otherwise, but they don't. Each one has it's own context. You said:
"What I do believe is that this, and other Scriptures are saying is that God calls everyone to repentance"
The calling goes out to all, but Only those who hear will respond with repentance, and those who hear are those who are awaken from their spiritually death and made alive to understand spiritual matters. And those same people will receive repentance and faith from God. And they will confess Jesus as Lord, because they already have faith through the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/11


Mark I don't follow you. I have never imagined that Jesus wanders about rapping His knuckles on peoples physical hearts. Too painful!

What I do believe is that this, and other Scriptures are saying is that God calls everyone to repentance. When we accept that we are sinners, lost in sin, on the bus to hell, and ask for forgiveness Jesus is there to accept our prayer and to forgive us. And thank God for that.

This, I believe is what Jesus meant by-I stand at the door and knock. God, via the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin. Some sadly choose to ignore this call and its amazing unmerited forgiveness.
---Warwick on 5/9/11




Warwick, I agree with much of what you said on Matt. 11:28, but Jesus is not knocking at anyone's heart. You have to remember there is an echo of the first beatitude (5:3)in this passages. Note that this is an open invitation to all who hear- but phrased in such a way that the only ones who will respond to the invitation are those who are burdened by their own spiritual bankruptcy and weight of trying to save themselves by keeping the law. The stubborness of humanity's sinful rebellion is such that without a Sovereignly-bestowed spiritual awakening, all sinners refuse to acknowledge the depth of their spiritual depravity. That's why Jesus says in (v.17) our salvation is the Sovereign work of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11


Warwick 2: When I answered the question on Rev. 3:20 is was to explain the context of the passages. That they do not say that Jesus is knocking at the door of someone's heart, trying to come in if you let Him, but was an answer to the heresy at the time going around the Laodicea Church. It was about the Church as a whole. Jesus talked about vomiting them out, telling them to repent, and if anyone could hear, let them hear. Only those who spiritually alive can hear. That other passages have the same application is true. I have given many to Samuel concerning Israel and Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11


Mark_V.: "...What He is waiting for is for all of His elect to be born and be saved."

The elect have already been saved. He didn't come to save the saved. He came to save the sinners. Every person in the world is a prospect of turning to Christ. God does not choose which person is to be save and which are not saved, but each has the opportunity to be save when Jesus knocks. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, he wants everyone to be saved. The "knocking" verse is simply a metaphor.
---Steveng on 5/9/11


"And this offer is not only for those in the Church, is it."
---Warwick on 5/9/11

I agree completely with your whole blog entry above from which I excerpted the last sentence.
Very well put!

This is what I had said (To markv):
"How could you speak of context while totally overlook Revelation 3:22 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
That last verse makes it everybody's business, not only what is said to the church at Laodicea, but the complete message to all the churches."
---Nana on 5/9/11
---Nana on 5/9/11


Mark and Nana, Jesus is definitely talking to the churches corporately and Churches are made up of individuals. However what Jesus says is not only for the Church but has a wider application as evidenced by "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest" Matthew 11:28, "..let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come, and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22:17

In the Tyndale NT Commentaries re Revelation 3:20 Leon Morris says Christ is talking to the chuch corporately but then says "if anyone hears my voice..." which means He is speaking to individuals. And this offer is not only for those in the Church, is it.
---Warwick on 5/9/11


Warwick 2: This poignant letter was His knocking, if one member would recognize his spiritual bankruptcy and respond in saving faith, He would enter the church. "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"
and finishes with, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches" only those who believe, who have the Spirit of God will hear. God is not knocking in a persons heart waiting for someone to answer. What He is waiting for is for all of His elect to be born and be saved. When that time comes, then the Second Coming.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11


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Good point Nana

There are two words for fulfilled. They mean according to Strong's
Pleroo Verb
2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish,
c) to carry into effect,
2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
3) to fulfill, i.e. to cause God's will to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises to receive fulfillment

Ginomai Verb Fulfilled
2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
c) to carry into effect, bring to realization, realize
4) to be made, finished

None of these mean done away with or destroyed.
---Samuel on 5/9/11


"Warwick... It seems you forgot to read the context. He is not talking to individuals. He is talking the church at Laodicea as a whole."
Mark V,5/9/11

How could you speak of context while totally overlook Revelation 3:22 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
That last verse makes it everybody's business, not only what is said to the church at Laodicea, but the complete message to all the churches.
---Nana on 5/9/11


Jesus said "it is finished!" this has to do with the sin business, the penalty of sin was finished. The way to heaven was finished. Now Christ has finished the fulfillment of the Law, whereby faith establishes it in Jesus Name. What is finished? To come to Christ for the destruction of sin to live Godly lives. To overcome sin to demonstrate Godly lives. To say by faith in Christ alone - sin is finished! Hallelujah!
---ivan9398 on 5/9/11


Warwick, welcome back. you gave Rev. 3:20 and come out with that conclusion. It seems you forgot to read the context. He is not talking to individuals. He is talking the church at Laodicea as a whole. The church was neither cold, openly rejectin Christ, nor hot, filled with spiritual zeal. Instead, it members were lukewarm, hypocrites professing to know Christ, but not truly belonging to Him (Matt. 7:21). "I will vomit you out of My mouth" Just like the dirty water of Laodicea, these self-deceived hypocrites sickened Christ. "I stand at the door and knock" The context demands that Christ was seeking to enter this church that bore His name but lacked a single true believer. That is why He told them to repent.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11


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Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

1 Timothy 2:3-6 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
---Nana on 5/8/11


Mark, Revelation 3:20 says "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." I think Jerry is correct in the meaning he gives it. Jesus calls all peole to forgiveness, to relationship with Him but relatively few heed the call, or 'knock' as the Scripture puts it.

I don't think it is about Jesus knocking on my front door wanting to walk in for a meal and a chat. Surely it is about Him wanting His 'children', His creatures to accept Him as Saviour, thereby receiving that which He died and rose again, to give everyone. But He does not force His gift upon anyone, as He waits for us to open the 'door' and let Him in.
---Warwick on 5/8/11


Mark_V.: "All we need to do is read it."

Atheists read it. Agnostics read it. Politicians read it. Scholars read it. Even Satan reads it. But what about spiritually understanding it. What about applying a little wisdom from what is read? Most christians depend too much on the memorization of the bible instead with an understanding heart. You have the knowledge of the bible and understand it in a worldly way, but can you preach it from the heart?
---Steveng on 5/8/11


Jerry 2, As to your other answer, you said,

" Jesus knocks at the door of everyone's heart, but not everyone opens unto Him"

I find no passage that says that. Can you imagine Jesus going around knocking at everyones heart? Like He is trying to come in, and helpless, because people won't let Him in? Do you not know what reprecussions that would bring concerning the deity of God? I would think twice, or millions before I said that to anyone or even mention that on line. What God really does is open's the hearts of individuals.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


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Jesus fulfilled the prophesies concerning him only, christians fulfill there commands, and the world to the end will fulfill it's prophesies.
---Steveng on 5/7/11

Take the search one step further and you'll find that he was the fulfillment of Lost Sheep of the Nth House of Israels prophecy's. The woman at the well recognized. The lepers knew. The blind knew.
Judah (his own)should have known...but, didn't. Some were Judahites...some were imposter Judahites.
Psalm 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Isaiah 62:12
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
---Trav on 5/8/11


Jerry, I'm answering not because it came from you, for I would answer what you said if another had put it concerning Romans 12:3.

Paul was speaking to his brethren, not to the world.
"For I say, through the grace given to me, "to everyone who is among you" not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one one a measure of faith."

He was speaking to each one of his breathren who were there. And who were also ask to "present their bodies a living sacrifice holy, acceptable to God,"which is your reasonable service"
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


Donna: I believe we are in agreement. Jesus knocks at the door of everyone's heart, but not everyone opens unto Him.
---jerry6593 on 5/8/11


Donna: One more ....

Rom 12:3 .... God hath dealt to EVERY man the measure of faith.
---jerry6593 on 5/8/11


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Steven G, the Bible provides us with God's Word, and tells us that Jesus also fulfilled many of the prophecies that pertained to Israel. Most of what was spoken of Israel is fulfilled in Christ. That should be obvious to all who read Scripture. Another thing most of you are not taking into account is, that prophecies (God's Word) spoken through the history of Scripture, were spoken to those in the unfolding story in Scripture. Now we have all of God's Word. All we need to do is read it. We all know that not all of what God perdicted has come to pass yet. Because we have the whole Bible to tells us it has not.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


What was fulfilled at the cross were the prophesies concerning him only (Acts 13:29). There are many more prophesies that are to be fulfilled until the end. All of God's word has not been fulfilled yet, but will shortly come to pass. People who do not undertand take the word "fulfill" out of context.

To learn what was fulfilled concerning Jesus only and what is fulfilled in general, do an online KJV bible search for the word "fulfill".

Jesus fulfilled the prophesies concerning him only, christians fulfill there commands, and the world to the end will fulfill it's prophesies.
---Steveng on 5/7/11


jerry6593-- These scriptures show that GOD DESIRES all men to know him. It does not prove that all MEN DESIRE to know HIM. That's the point we were discussing.

Just because God's Grace is available doesn't mean it is perceived as desirable by every man.
//Every men is a "temple of the Holy Spirit" until he grieves Him away//. Really, even unbelievers?
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
If someone rejects the urging of the Holy Spirit, he will be lost.
---Donna66 on 5/7/11


Trav, Donna: The desire to know God is by action of the Holy Spirit. It is He (the H.S.) that convicts us of sin and woos us to the love of God. Every man is a temple of the H.S. until he grieves Him away.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
---jerry6593 on 5/7/11


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jerry6593,
Maybe they like this one better:
....It seems clear to me that the Bible teaches that God desires that ALL men know him---Nana
---Nana on 5/7/11


jerry6593-- We'd like to think that ALL men are given a desire to know God... that somehow, underneath, they really search for the Almighty. If you have scripture that agrees with this notion please share it.

I find a lot of verses like the following:. Pro 21:10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil...
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
---Donna66 on 5/6/11



....It seems clear to me that the Bible teaches that ALL men were given a desire to know God.....---jerry6593

Just a technicality. The scriptures i posted are in regard to this statement you made above.
It sounds nice, but cannot find it supported "all" men given a desire to know GOD.

Was showing scripture pertaining to "whom" is defined as "lost" in scripture. The lost, typically desire to be found....in realization that they are lost. Heathens know nothing. And for 2,000 years we've witnessed the only thing some crave are the blessings of the Christian nations. Not their GOD.
---Trav on 5/6/11


Trav: I still have no idea why you are quoting the scriptures you are quoting. Perhaps you could explain.
---jerry6593 on 5/6/11


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Trav: And your point is?
---jerry6593 on 5/4/11

The scripture posted was the point and the subject.
Ezekiel 34:16
I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong, I will feed them with judgment.
Ezekiel 37:11
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
---Trav on 5/5/11


Trav: And your point is?
---jerry6593 on 5/4/11


Luk 19:10 ...LOST.

It is further evident that Jesus' sole mission was for benefit of the LOST - that they might know and LOVE God. Please explain why you think these scriptures are false!
---jerry6593 on 4/28/11

Ur usage is.
From closed blog. Ref you give above is in context to Israel.
In context the Nth House.
Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Ezekiel 37:28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

(Judah "not Lost" is "one" of 13 nations of Israel)
---Trav on 5/3/11


Luke 14:27 "And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

What about this cross?

James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:"

James 2:12 "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

I do not see where an exception has been made for any man as to his DUTY to fulfill the royal law, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

Rather all I see is a warning: James 2:13.
---Nana on 5/3/11


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All Jesus came to fulfill was fulfilled. Nothing was left undone. He also fulfilled Hosea 11:1 which in the historical context, referred to the nation of Israel being called out of Egypt. The very first Gospel writer in Matt. 2:13-15 picks up this text and declares it "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ. In Matt. 12:16-20 Jesus after healing a large number of people "warned them not to make Him known, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, "Behold, my Servant, whom I have chosen, My beloved in who My soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon Him, and He will declare justice to the Gentiles. He will not quarrel nor cry out, nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets."
---Mark_V. on 5/3/11


However, since we have transgressed the Law at least one time in our life, we need to believe in a Savior that did. ---aka on 5/1/11

If you have broken one, you have broken them all.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
---aka on 5/1/11


Francis: Please proof-read your posts. The last one is almost unintelligible.
---jerry6593 on 5/1/11

I will try harder
---francis on 5/1/11


//The way to heaven is through JESUS not the Ten Commandments. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone.//

Samuel is wrong but he is right.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

However, since we have transgressed the Law at least one time in our life, we need to believe in a Savior that did.
---aka on 5/1/11


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The way to heaven is through JESUS not the Ten Commandments. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. To think the law saves is contrary to Romans 3 and the rest of the New Testament as well as the Old.

Aaron sinned greatly against GOD but he was saved. How by the grace of GOD offered to this man who built a golden calf.

We are here waiting of the second coming of JESUS. Remeber Matthew 25. The judgement will fall on those who did not love others.
---Samuel on 4/30/11


EVERYTHING was Not fulfilled at the cross, only Jesus' mission was fulfilled, and Now he commands us to take up our own cross and follow after him so that we may complete our mission that he has set for us to do. Luke 9:23,24+ 14:26-35.
---Eloy on 4/30/11


Francis: Please proof-read your posts. The last one is almost unintelligible.
---jerry6593 on 5/1/11


So what was in the sanctuary was fulfilled ny Christ, and some n time. But all was not fulfilled at the corss, one example of things not fulfilled atthe cross, was the outpouring of the holy spirit which occured sme 50 days later. It was also 3 1 /2 years after the death of Christ that the ministry to " his own" exclusively was complete, whwere by the holy spirit begam to fall on none hebrews.
---Francis on 4/30/11


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-...to obey the Ten Commandments was abridged by the cross is to nullify the very purpose...the penalty of sin MUST be paid in blood.- very true...the way to heaven is the 10 Commandments. But, since we, in our lifetime at least on time, have broken one of the 10, we are condemned. However, God sent His own (Jesus...Immanuel) and he kept all the 10 (summarized into 2) and shed His Blood because we transgressed the law. He was/is the sacrifice of blood that we need. Therefore, our belief in Him and His commandments are necessary. Our menial efforts has not ever sufficed. If so, we would not keep having to repeat the same rituals over and over. Sacrificing something that is not perfect has no effect other than a good barbecue.
---aka on 4/30/11


as i said, what I say is not important. your point is elementary and true. Jesus spoke of murder, adultery, faith...of course.

but, there are some of these He expanded on which was different than how the the law of the Israelites read and explained thing in different metaphors that were not covered in the O.T.

"It is written" is true, but so is "but I say" and "...is like...".

BTW, I believe 'mountains' is figurative. 'Moving' can be literal or figurative.
---aka on 4/30/11


Everything was NOT fulfilled at the cross! The penalty for sin was paid in full for those who will accept Jesus' sacrifice, but sin itself (which is defined by the Ten Commandments) was not done away with. Just look around you - sin still abounds, and the Ten Commandments remain to define it.

All of the animal sacrifices of the OT levitical system were a prophecy of the coming sacrifice of the Son of God. THAT prophecy is what was fulfilled at the cross, as confirmed by the rending of the temple veil by the hand of God.

To contend that the duty to obey the Ten Commandments was abridged by the cross is to nullify the very purpose of the cross - that the penalty of sin MUST be paid in blood.
---jerry6593 on 4/30/11


Francis, instead of writting all those blogs and putting so much of the law, why don't you just get to the point? "You want everyone to follow Saturday Sabbath." That is the point you and Jerry want to make. All the other stuff you and him talk about leads to one thing. Not whether we should obey or disobey Christ, or that we are save by Grace through faith, that is not your point, "all the stuff you talk about is a smokescreen, because your purpose is to introduce Saturday Sabbath, and want to impose your/and Jerry's legalistic view of the law, so to get to that point you go through all those passages in the Old Testament. Get to the point.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/11


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"It is written"
---francis on 4/28/11

Very good point, Francis
---David on 4/30/11


aka, If you are trying to be literal, then tell me which mountain was moved by which apostle, or even by Jesus. I think what Jesus is talking about is that a little faith is all it takes to do what seems imposible, and the OT is chucked full with that. Between Elijah and ELisha 21 Miracles, between moses and Joshua how many? I don't know. All these men of faith trusted in God and God moved on their words.

Now back to the blog question:
After Jesus death, there was still the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary left to be fulfilled or performed, and then the promise of the out pouring of the holy spirit. So there were things left to be fulfilled after Jesus death.
---francis on 4/29/11


francis, nevermind, what i say and what point i am trying to make is not important.
---aka on 4/29/11


---aka on 4/29/11
You have got to be kidding me?! Are you realy asking me to show in the OT where FAITH can do what seems imposible?
Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon, and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

do not forget the faith of Elijah who stoped the rain and brought the rain
---francis on 4/29/11


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We know the 10 commandments, but your claim, francis, is that Jesus did not teach anything different than exactly what is in the verses that I quoted.

a little faith is like a mustard seed and it can move mountains...who taught that...where is that?
---aka on 4/29/11


Where is Mat 19:12 in the OT?
---aka on 4/29/11
The question is Matthew 19:12 is Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry.

Now surely the OT speaks of eunuchs, and There are people in the OT who have dedicated to thier lives to serving God without a spouse: Was every prophet married?
---Francis on 4/29/11


Matthew 5:21 Thou shalt not kill OT Psalms 69:4 Proverbs 29:10
Matthew 5:27 Thou shalt not commit adultery: Job 31:1
Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all, Leviticus 19:12
Matthew 5:38 An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies,Exodus 23:4 Proverbs 24:17 Proverbs 25:21
---francis on 4/29/11


jerry6593 At the cross 'all things' "which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning [the initial coming of Jesus]," were fulfilled. However there are prophecies concerning His second coming that are yet to be fulfilled.
---Josef on 4/29/11


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---aka on 4/29/11
Matthew 5:21 Thou shalt not kill
Matthew 5:27 Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all,
Matthew 5:38 An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies,

These are things which Jesus is teaching about, can you honestly tell me that you cannot find these in OT?
---francis on 4/29/11


//as you can see jesus and ALL the apostles taught exclusively from the OT//

Mat 5:22, 28, 32, 34, 39, 44 But, I say unto you...

Where is Mat 19:12 in the OT?
---aka on 4/29/11


Acts 1:3-5 "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
---Nana on 4/29/11


There is a curious combination of verses at the death of Jesus:
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had CRIED AGAIN WITH A LOUD VOICE, yielded up the ghost. Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in twain from the top to the bottom,

Mark 15:37 And Jesus CRIED WITH A LOUD VOICE, and gave up the ghost. Mark 15:38 And the VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had CRIED WITH A LOUD VOICE,

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
---francis on 4/29/11


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Matthew 4:4 It is written,
Matthew 21:13 It is written,
Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets
Luke 2:23 it is written in the law of the Lord
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets
Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms
Acts 15:15 the words of the prophets,as it is written
Romans 1:17 it is written
Romans 15:21it is written
1 Corinthians 1:19it is written,
1 Corinthians 15:45 it is written
Galatians 4:22 it is written,
Hebrews 10:7 it is written
1 Peter 1:16 it is written

The Phrase " It is writen" referres to what is in the OT as you can see jesus and ALL the apostles taught exclusively from the OT
---francis on 4/28/11


\\But did JESUS and the Apotles never use the OT for doctrine like you teach?\\

They certainly didn't use the OT like YOU and the SDA teach it. That's for sure.

My point is that EVERYBODY, including the SDA, picks and chooses which OT commandments they observe and don't observe.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/11


Everything was not fulfilled at the cross...

but

everything is was/is/will be fulfilled because of what God did before/at/after the cross.

Christ (Jesus) is risen.
---aka on 4/28/11


THAT'S THE ANSWER!

AKA, You know scripture well my friend!

Good post!
---John on 4/28/11


Everything was not fulfilled at the cross...

but

everything is was/is/will be fulfilled because of what God did before/at/after the cross.

Christ (Jesus) is risen.
---aka on 4/28/11


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Cear Cluny

You keep telling people to disobey certan Old Testament commandments. Like not sacrifice. But all sacrifices pointed to JESUS so we do not have to sacrifice any more.

Why do you not tell people to use the restroom in their backyard. For sanitaton is an Old Testament Commandment and you keep saying we should disobey them. To not sleep with animals is an OT commandment. Should we do that to show we are saved by grace.

It seems you are saying there is no such thing as sin or health laws or moral codes at all. That the OT is not for doctrine. But did JESUS and the Apotles never use the OT for doctrine like you teach?
---Samuel on 4/28/11


EVERYTHING WE NOT FULFILLED AT THE CROSS!

Please study your scripture people.

Ignorance is NOT bliss!!!
---John on 4/27/11


\\His purpose for being on the earth as Gods messengervwas fullfileld at the cross. he didnt' abolish the OT commandments by the way,so when he said "it is done" he finished his first part of his duty.the second will occur at the ressurection.\\

candice, if you're married, do you sleep in a separate bed from your husband during your period?

Did you offer the appropriate sacrifice if you had children?

Will you be returning your house back to the original owners after 50 years?

If not, then you are not obeying the OT commandments.
---Cluny on 4/27/11


His purpose for being on the earth as Gods messengervwas fullfileld at the cross. he didnt' abolish the OT commandments by the way,so when he said "it is done" he finished his first part of his duty.the second will occur at the ressurection.
---candice on 4/27/11


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actually when we are born again we are to be in the world but not of the world,so in a sense we arent here. Now to better answer your question Gods plan as jesus revealed is for the gospel to be preached in the WHOLE WORLD then the end will come.stay calm though none of us are here very long,but how we live our lives is what we will eventually be rewarded for,or not.
---tom2 on 4/27/11


The whole Bible was NOT fulfilled at the cross. There are still parts of the O.T. and N.T. yet to be fulfilled. What was fulfilled at the cross: salvation and redemption from sin, healing, deliverance, the law (including the 10 Commandments) - NO this does NOT mean we can stop following them (we MUST still follow the law). Through Christ's finished work on the cross and His shed blood, you have: salvation, forgiveness, cleansing, healing, deliverance, eternal life - when you repent and trust in Christ.
---Leslie on 4/27/11


It depends on what you mean by "everything"

Was "everything" fulfilled that had been prophesied about the Suffering Servant? Yes

Was "everything" fulfilled that had been prophesied about the Heir to David's throne? No

My obligation to pay my light bill wasn't fulfilled at the cross

My obligation to the Law was, though
---James_L on 4/27/11


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