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Three Days In Paradise

Please explain how Jesus spent 3 days in Paradise since He was only dead for 1 1/2-2 days?

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 ---Judy on 4/27/11
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Jerry6593, "Jesus well understood the Hebrew concept of life after death (as opposed to that of the greeks)...."?? So, JESUS (YAHUSHUA) understood a particular human race's concept of life after death? Well, YAHUSHUA was, and is, God. What about what He Himself KNEW about Death?? What about GOD's own "Concept" of life after Death? Does HE get any consideration here? Any at all?! GOD's WORD is what matters, not what any particular race of man thinks or believes! Just because there was no account given of what happened to Lazarus' soul as his stinking, rotting corpse was laying in the tomb, does not "give evidence" of soul-sleep, as you suggest. The Story in Luke 16 is YAHUSHUA's own Account of Life after Death.
---Gordon on 7/1/11

Francis, At the time when YAHUSHUA (JESUS) promised the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise.....Paradise was located in the "heart of the Earth" (the center of the Earth, where the Hell of Torments now is). That's where YAHUSHUA said He would be for three days and for three nights (as a sign of Jonah to the rebellious generation of His day). Paradise, and the Saints therein (mostly of O.T. Saints) were later taken up to the Third Heaven where GOD's Throne is. The space where Paradise WAS below, is now a part of the Tormenting Hell.
---Gordon on 7/1/11

THREE DAYS after his death jesus said: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

This says to us, that jesus did not to paradise that day.
So neither did the theif

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Again this lets us know that he stayed in the grave three days did not go anywhere
---francis on 7/1/11

MarkV You are quite right. The can be scarcely anyone who, on hearing someone speak, may wonder when that person is speaking.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/1/11

It is said by many who believe in "soul sleep" that the passage in Luke 23:43 is not suppose to have a comma because somehow Jesus wanted to say,
"I'm telling you right now that sometime in the future you will be with Me in heaven!"
If Jesus was speaking that day, and the thief knew He was, and words were coming out of Jesus mouth that day, why would Jesus say, "I'm telling you right now" The thief would never understand that somehow He was telling him tomorrow since he was hearing the words that very day? Anyone with any common sense would know that. I understand it and I still make mistakes in spelling. And those that don't, cannot understand something so simple.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/11

Willa: Well said also. I think that Jesus and His disciples well understood the Hebrew concept of life after death (as opposed to that of the Greeks), as evidenced by Jesus' conversation with Martha about Lazarus 4-day old death:

Joh 11:23,24 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus had referred earlier to Lazarus' death as a "sleep". Missing from the story is any account by the resurrected Lazarus of his glorious time in paradise.
---jerry6593 on 7/1/11

Willa5568, What I say is from GOD. Willa, what the freak difference does it make what the Greeks believed or what the Hebrews believed in general? It's the Word of GOD that matters. It's what GOD says that matters. GOD's people are always a Remnant amount compared to the whole population of the human race. That includes the Hebrews (Jews) and the Greeks (and Gentiles). Only 8 people were spared from GOD's Judgment of the Great Flood in Noah's time. It's the same throughout history. Hell is frightening. It's a place originally prepared only for Satan and the devils. So, it was meant to be horrifying. But, the wicked of mankind also go there by virtue of their choice to remain in sin and rebellion against GOD. It's real. Believe or not.
---Gordon on 7/1/11


I say this with great respect to you. What you believe is what is taught in all of Christendom with the exception of a very small grain of sand who teach otherwise. You say you have researched and studied, well my question is have you researched the history of this doctrine and where its origins are? The Hebrew understanding of death is very different than the Greek. Through the influence of the Gentile(Greek) philosophical idea of death, it infiltrated the Church by the middle of the second century. I know you will stand were you do but I would encourage you to really examine this and as I said research the origin.

Grace and Peace
---willa5568 on 6/30/11

Willa5568, The understanding of Life and Death has to be on GOD's Terms. What HE means by "real Life" and "real Death". It is totally irrelavent what we think of what real Life and Death really are. I am going by what I have researched and learned of GOD's "system" of Life and Death. I am not leaning on my own understanding on this issue, for, to do so is risky and foolish. True Death is (again) being in the Everlasting state of Destruction (in Hell and then, in the Lake of Fire). Being separated from GOD which leaves one with despair, hopelessness, misery, anger, bitterness, emptiness, hatred, depression, meaninglessness, on and on. With eternal Torments along with it all!
---Gordon on 6/30/11

well said Jerry
---willa5568 on 6/30/11

Judy: Paradise is NOT the grave! The grave is BELOW, but paradise is ABOVE, as:

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught UP into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Do you think that the tree of life is underground?

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
---jerry6593 on 6/29/11

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin, but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
-Do not confuse physically dead with spiritually dead--big mistake--rightfully discern truth. 1Co 2:14, Heb 5:14, 2Tim 2:15
---micha9344 on 6/28/11


Revelation 20:5 "The rest of the dead, LIVED NOT, until the thousand years, were ended".

What is your definition of to be alive? Do you believe this says the dead bodies did not live since there soul suffers in hell?

In 20:13 it says in the KJV "death and hell gave up the dead"

You change your meaning of hell(hades) from the burning place sinners go until judgement and now hell is the grave. So are you saying death and the grave gave up the dead . Does death not mean the opposite of being alive?

What you call hell is a Greek understanding of what happens to the dead. Eternal life is the opposite of death. Dead means you are gone, eternal life means you will live forever, the gift.
---willa5568 on 6/28/11

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

If heaven / paradise is all we think it is, why being Lazarous back?
Why bring any believer back to this earth where there is pain and suffering?

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

If Lazarous had accomplish that, why would a loving God bring him back to a suffering world?

Ecclesiastes 9:4 for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
---francis on 6/28/11


Have you ever studied the different doctrines taught in what is Christianity allowing the possibility you may be wrong? From your statement my guess would be no. If all you accept is the traditional teachings of the evangelical, protestant church, then you are in danger of being a sheep. Those who truly studied scripture from Christs apostles to today, though they believed the doctrine taught in that time, were willing to reject what they stood firmly to be truth. I have been were you are and encourage you to realize you may be wrong as the few scripture I have room to post show.
---willa5568 on 6/28/11

Jerry6593, Did not the Apostle John say, regarding the Lord YAHUSHUA/JESUS Himself, that if ALL, if ALL...of the things that the Lord had said and done were recorded, that he supposed that the whole World would not have been able to contain all of the Books made. This same idea applies to the life of YAHUSHUA's friend Lazarus. Just because the Bible does not mention what happened to him while his body was in the tomb for four days, does NOT mean that nothing worthwhile happened. OR, that nothing happened at all! Again, since not all of YAHUSHUA's Life was not recorded, does that mean it was not important or of NO significance? NO. It's just that, for GOD's own Reasons, HE chose not to put those Facts in the Scriptures.
---Gordon on 6/28/11

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Willa5568, There are myriads of Churches refusing to teach the Truth about Hell and the Lake of Fire (one reason why I harp about it so much!). Many people don't want to face the hard reality about Hell when they DO hear about it. Yes, the sinner will "die", but, it's a death you have no comprehension of. You see, the true Death, the Death" of man's soul is not annihilation. It is being brought down to a state of worthlessness, meaninglessness, complete abandonment by GOD, utter lonliness, depression, anger, hatred, misery and endless Torments on top of it all. If you do not believe that Hell and the Lake of Fire are like that, and that GOD would have places like them prepared, than you have ALOT to learn about GOD still. ALOT.
---Gordon on 6/28/11

Willa5568, GOD will resurrect the souls of the Damned into their old flesh-and-blood bodies. The bodies that were buried in the ground, the bodies that were drowned or cast into the seas, etc. even those burned to ashes. GOD will raise up these bodies to reunite them with their souls to stand before HIM in Judgment. They will then be cast into the Lake of Fire on the Great Day of the White Throne Judgment.
---Gordon on 6/28/11

Judy: Your question shows that you are of the comma "denomination" (That sounds better than "cult".) The comma was invented 1500 years after the time of Jesus, but alters the meaning of Luk 23:43 as:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

But if the comma is moved from in front of the word "today" to behind it, the sense of the verse changes to [paraphrasing]:

"I'm telling you right now that sometime in the future you will be with Me in heaven!"

The Bible says that paradise is the garden of God in heaven - not the grave. Just ask Lazarus. He had no tales of "paradise" after being in the grave 4 days.
---jerry6593 on 6/28/11

The Hebrews understood both the concept of a full day, sundown to the next sundown, and that a short time (in a day) could stand in for the whole day.
Remembering both that He had taken the Passover with the Disciples, and had risen before sunup on Monday: one possibility is that the Lord died on Wednesday afternoon, being interred before sundown, and then - arising 72 hours later, some people believe that the crucifixion occurred on a Thursday, as in some years, the Passover would start on that evening. Another possibility is that Jesus died on Friday and rose Saturday night - which would be 24 hours plus a few hours. Leviticus 23:5-8, Matthew 26:2, 28:1, Mark 14:1-2, 16:1, Luke 22:1-2, 15, 24:1, John 13:1, 20:1.
---Glenn on 6/26/11

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you didn't answer my question about Revelations.

what you are presenting is Gnosticism not what scripture teaches. Yes, God did create man to live forever but He also said if you disobey(eat from the tree He commanded not to eat from) then you will die, return to the dust He made us from.(1Corithians 5:12-19)
Genesis 3:19,22 " for you are dust,and to dust you shall return", "take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever"
"...the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel..."(2Timothy 1:10)
---willa5568 on 6/26/11

Willa5568, Do you not believe that evil fallen angels exist?? Do you not believe that holy angels exist?? Do you believe that both of these entities has some degree of power?? Do you not believe that these entities have the power to take on other forms, e.g. two holy angels took on the form of mere men to warn Lot about the Judgment to come on Sodom and Gomorrah. These spirit beings are real, and are actually more real than flesh and blood human beings because they are NOT LIMITED by aging flesh and blood (which withers and corrodes as it nears the years of Death). The fact IS is that our souls, spiritual souls are more real than our limited flesh-and-blood bodies they indwell. These bodies are only empty vessels that house our souls. Cont...
---Gordon on 6/26/11

Willa5568, Our souls are more real than our bodies. Once we discard our decaying flesh-and-blood bodies, we are freed from the lmitations of those bodies. Because the flesh was made from the dust of the Earth, it is very limited and is only made for the temporary time that we live on this Earth, this side of Eternity. The bodies our souls will indwell after Death will enable our souls to dwell on for Eternity in whichever place our soul ends up, be it Heaven or Hell (and the Lake of Fire). The soul feels REAL PAIN and TORMENT in Hell. The pains are felt physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. GOD is an Everlasting Being. We are made in HIS Image, also to live forever, from the time that we're created until throughout all Eternity.
---Gordon on 6/26/11

Cristan, You need to re-read my comments, and the ones I wrote to others here. 'Cause I've explained it thoroughly. Otherwise, please quote me where I denied that the soul is not conscious when separated from the body at Death. The soul's senses are even MORE acute after Death. What I said goes well along with Luke 16. The Paradise side in "Hades" was only there temporarily. Now the Saints are taken directly to what we now know as "Heaven". "Paradise" and the "Third Heaven (Mansions of John 14:1-3) are two different places. The Paradise of below no longer exists. Hades is now completely the Hell of Torments. You must study and research this subject more. It's imperative for each of us to do so.
---Gordon on 6/26/11

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"man became a living soul" is translated living creature in YLT or it even could be "living being". Notice it says God breathed the "breathe of life", as in life's breathe. God said "YOU are dust and to dust YOU will return". Can you divide "you" into different parts? Saying death is the body not the soul that dies has no need of hope in the resurrection or eternal life.

"the SEA GAVE UP THE it...Hades gave up the dead.....and they were judged...Anyone whose name was not written in the book of life... was thrown into the lake of fire. "(Rev. 20:13,14)

Explain how lost souls can be tormented in hell(Hades) as well as the sea until judgment?
---willa5568 on 6/25/11

Willa5568, No. The only part of man that came from dust IS the physical body. The soul is not made from the dust. The soul came from the Breath of Life from GOD. NO, You do not believe in Hell. Hell is not the plot of dirt where the physical body is buried. Hell is as the Lord YAHUSHUA (JESUS) describes in Mark 9:43-48. And, so the thief DID go to Paradise. When he died on the cross. He went to Paradise, where the Lord YAHUSHUA, also, descended to for three days and three Nights. "Annihilism of the soul" is not Scriptural at all. It is wishful thinking at best. Damning falsehood at worst.
---Gordon on 6/25/11


Yes, I believe there is a hell. First the grave, i.e. death, then the second death when those who are resurrected are judged and consumed in Gehenna. God vary plainly said from dust you came to dust you will return. "You" is not a body but a person. God breathed the breathe of life and we became a living soul. Without breathe we are dead, or as Jesus and the Apostles say "fallen asleep" until the resurrection.

The thief asks "remember me when you come...". Instead of verily or truly this may make the greek word much clearer "I tell with certainty today, you will be with me..."

"remember will be with me..."
The context is very clear, meditate on it.
---willa5568 on 6/25/11

Part 1: Gordon, your explanation of Luke 16 about the rich man and Lazarus is very confusing. Your explanation is to justify your own thoughts about what you already think Paradise is, which according to Luke 16 is not even close to what Christ preaching was about.

According to Luke 16, it's established that there's a place call Paradise and Hades, one for the saints and the other for the reprobates. And guess what, the rich man in Hades recognized Abraham, which means his conscience is still intact even when he dies in the flesh. In this his soul and spirit has been separated from the earthen body.
---christan on 6/25/11

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Part 2: And here's the hair-raising part Gordon, according to Abraham, there's already a gulf separating them which means when someone dies in the flesh, he either goes to Paradise or Hades, and no where else.

So, those who claim and believe that souls wanders around is a total lie. The rich man couldn't even leave Hades so I don't see anyone else being able to checkout and wander around. And as for Lazarus who was in Paradise and anyone of the saints, why would they want to leave a place that's in eternal bliss and in the fellowship of all the saints?
---christan on 6/25/11

//Ephesians 4:9//

unless you read the context you change what the writer is saying. It would be best to at least start at verse 7 and read through to 13. There is no reference to hell, but it refers to earth itself. What is quoted is used to support verse 11 about the gifts given to the body of Christ.
//1Peter 3:18,19//

Considering it only speaks of "spirits" who disobeyed before the flood and not all "spirits", along with the possibility of it being in spirit or in his spirit the preaching was done in Noah's time(scholarly debate over these issues), I find it hard to use this to build doctrine on.

Luke 24:21, Sunday third day. Matt. 16:21 was to be raised on the third day. Crucified on Friday.
---willa5568 on 6/25/11

Willa5568, The thief on the cross praying the Lord to remember him when He comes into His Kingdom does not keep the Lord from going even a step further than that by declaring to this thief that even "TO DAY thou shalt be with Me in Paradise." So, you do not believe that there is a Hell? Please respond to my comment AND question.
---Gordon on 6/24/11

Francis, When people refer to the Dead, as you were mentioning about, they are speaking of them in their ability, or rather the lack of it, to relate to people still alive on Earth. But, regarding what happens instantly to the souls that depart at Death, they cannot communicate or relate to those still on Earth, but, they are fully alive in either Hell or Heaven. That's why the Lord told the thief that "TO DAY shalt thou be with Me in Paradise (Abraham's Bosom).
---Gordon on 6/24/11

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Francis, The Story of the rich man and Lazarus of Luke 16 is an illustrative account of what people, back then, could expect to encounter when they died. If it was not that way, then YAHUSHUA was using a scenario of falsehoods to tell a Story. The "Dead know nothing...their thoughts perish, etc." indicates that the thoughts of the Dead have no bearing on what happens on top of Earth. So, from the people on Earth's "point of view" the deceased's thoughts are as good as having perished. But, by Luke 16's Account of the beggar Lazarus, the Lord is revealing that, indeed, the Dead ARE alive, whether in Heaven or Hell. But, they no longer have any influence on the affairs of Earth nor on the people on Earth which they left behind.
---Gordon on 6/24/11

Referring to "I say to you today you will be with me in paradise", if your exegesis is not based on the context you change the meaning. The thief asked him to remember him when he came in his kingdom. There is no justification for "Abraham's bosom" being this paradise, but rather to the kingdom he desired to be in.
theologians placed the comma in that place because of their doctrinal belief of hell. Translation in many aspects can be affected negatively because of this, including words and as in this case, punctuation.


Jesus did not ascend until 40 days after his resurrection. So I don't believe your thesis is correct.
---willa5568 on 6/24/11

The BIBLE says this about the dead:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead KNOW NOT ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward, for the MEMORY of them is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also THEIR LOVE, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished,
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: Ecclesiastes 9:10 there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his THOUGHTS PERISH

I often wonder, how did the rich man KNOW about his brothers, how did he MEMEBER them, and since the dead have no LOVE why would he care?
Where di he get THOUGHTS from?
---francis on 6/24/11

CHRISTAN, Well, GOD certainly has His own Ways of doing things. :-) Up until the time that the Son of GOD YAHUSHUA first walked the Earth, all of the Saints in GOD, when they died, went below, in the Paradise section of what is NOW completely the tormenting Hell (the Lake of Fire is a completely separate place). The Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a depiction of this, as described in Luke 16. That's where Paradise WAS, in the "HEART of the Earth". The "heart" is the center, or around it's very center. Some Saints arose from the Dead when an Earthquake occurred, when YAHUSHUA died on the Cross (Matthew 27: 51-53).
---Gordon on 6/24/11

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Gordon Do me a favour: Look at everything that the bible especially the Old testement scriptures have to say about the condition of those who die. Can they think, and talk. DO they have memories. can they love and hate?
---francis on 6/24/11

CHRISTAN, Sometimes GOD has us "search the Scriptures" and put the different Scriptural Puzzle Pieces together for ourselves. So, we have the Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16, then, the Lord telling the religious that the Sign He will give them is that of the Prophet Jonah. He will, like Jonah was 3 days and nights in the Fish, likewise, He, YAHUSHUA, will be 3 Days and 3 Nights in the Heart of the Earth. In Ephesians 4:9, it says "(Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also DESCENDED to the "lower parts of the Earth (Hell and Paradise below)." and I Peter 3:18-20 is a Clue "For CHRIST...being put to Death in the which also He went to preach unto the spirits in prison,..."
---Gordon on 6/24/11

Paradise was "the heavenly section of hell"? Really? And where did Scripture say that Christ spent "3 days in Paradise"? Christ is God and He conquered death by raising Himself on the third day that His people may have eternal life.

Scripture tells us that Paradise is an eternal holding state for the saints prior to the coming of Christ when He will establish the Kingdom of God and the Lake of Fire. Hades is where the reprobates will go before Christ's coming. Time ceases when man dies in the flesh and he either goes into the eternal state of Paradise or Hades. That's why it's call eternal, it's timeless and God is eternal.
---christan on 6/24/11

FRANCIS, Paradise was the Heavenly section of Hell, the place hidden under the ground, miles below. Paradise was where all of the Old Testament Saints went at death, and a few New Testament Saints, until the Lord ascended to the Third Heaven at the Right Hand of the Father. The "thief" on the cross went straight to Paradise below when he died. YAHUSHUA went there with him when He died on the Cross. For, YAHUSHUA descended to the "heart of the Earth" (Paradise) for 3 Days and 3 Nights. Then, sometime at or after His Ascension, did He take the O.T. Saints of Paradise to the Third Heaven. So, the Lord was accurate to say "TODAY ("within THIS 24-hour period of time"), shalt thou be with Me in Paradise."
---Gordon on 6/24/11

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Sorry, 1st CLIFF, the Lord YAHUSHUA (JESUS) said "TO DAY shalt thou be with Me in Paradise." and that's exactly what he meant, "TODAY". Simple! :-)
---Gordon on 6/23/11

LISTEN CAREFULLY, The belief that the Lord YAHUSHUA (JESUS) was crucified on Friday and arose from the Tomb on early Sunday morning is NOT TRUE. When the Lord said that He would be in the heart of the Earth for Three Days and for Three Nights, He meant exactly what He said! YOU ARE RIGHT TO QUESTION ABOUT THE "1 1/2 to 2 days"! The Lord was crucified and died at 3 p.m. as the Ultimate Sacrificial Lamb, and He died on the Passover, when the High Priest slew a Passover lamb on an Altar. He arose on the end of the weekly Shabbat on Saturday Evening. There were TWO SABBATHS that week. The Passover's "High Sabbath" and the regular weekly 7th Day Sabbath.
---Gordon on 6/23/11

BY THE WAY, Paradise was the "Heavenly Side" of what is now Hell, toward the center of the Earth. The Lord took all of the Paradise (mostly Old Testament Saints) up to the Third Heaven where the Throne of GOD is, and where the Heavenly Mansions of the Saints are. The Paradise side of Hell is now completely Hell. And Hell enlarges itself everyday with the souls who have passed on into Eternity in their sins.
---Gordon on 6/23/11

Luke 23:43b
Wycliffe 1385: , this day
Revised Wycliffe 1395: , this dai
Tyndale 1534: / to daye
Coverdale 1535: : To daye
Great 1540: : to daye
Matthew 1549: : to daye
Bishops 1568: , to day
Doway-Rhemes 1582: : this day
Geneva 1583: , to day
KJV 1611: , to day
Challoner 1752: , this day
King James 1769: , To day
Webster 1833: , This day
Revised 1885: , Today
Darby 1890: , To-day
Young's Literal 1898: , To-day
American Standard 1901: , To-day
New American Standard 1960: , today
New International 1973: , today
New King James 1982: , today
New Living 1996: , today
English Standard 2001: , today
So is francis right or is every theologian English translator for the past 625 years?
---micha9344 on 6/22/11

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The key to this text is the word "paradise"
It is neither Greek nor Hebrew but Persian and means a park or garden surrounded by trees!
Jesus is clearly referring to His kingdom, part of which, is the "New Earth"!
I make this statement "today"**...get it?
** In Jesus' statement ,His dieing day**
---1st_cliff on 5/1/11


in this "I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise" remember the translators added punctuations , not the original writers since their wasn't punctuation in Greek.

Also reading the previous verse helps, "Jesus remember me when you come in your kingdom". Had he come in his kingdom? Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? The answer has to be no, he did not come in his kingdom yet. Putting the punctation in the proper place is very important to understand what is being said. Considering what I have said above it should be "I say unto you today, you WILL be with me in paradise" (i.e. the kingdom of heaven).
---willa5568 on 5/1/11

---tommy3007 on 5/1/11
When the bible was first writen, there were no punctuation marks, chapters or verses.

Those things were put in by the translators. If you have a KJV it is honest enough to tell you that some word were added in and those words are italized.

If you read both my post you will see that the problem is a missplaced comma.
---francis on 5/1/11

We know that neither Jesus, not the theif went to paradise on the day of thier death. Unless Jesus went to heaven/ paradise and did not go to see his father. LOL LOL
very unlikely

Next: Where should the COMMA go?
---FRANCIS on 4/29/11

FRANCIS, IF this statement of yours is true, then Jesus lied to the thief on the cross, for Scripture shows that He clearly stated, "Today, you shall be with me in Paradise."? If Jesus lied here, what other lies did He tell? I don't know where you are getting this kind of info from, but, I see it clearly conflicting with Scripture. If Jesus EVER told ONE lie, I don't want Him as my Saviour and LORD.
---tommy3007 on 5/1/11

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That is exactly what I said, so it seems we are in agreement on this.
---willa5568 on 4/29/11

---francis on 4/29/11


That is exactly what I said, so it seems we are in agreement on this.
---willa5568 on 4/29/11

3 verses in the Bible use the word PARADISE
Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:4 and Revelation 2:7

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 tells us that the third heaven is paradise, and Revelation 2:7 says that tree of life, is in the paradise of GOD ( THE FATHER).
We know that currently the tree of life is in the New jerusalem which is in heaven. So again paradise is heaven.
WIth Jesus making this statement: John 20:17 Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

We know that neither Jesus, not the theif went to paradise on the day of thier death. Unless Jesus went to heaven/ paradise and did not go to see his father. LOL LOL
very unlikely

Next: Where should the COMMA go?
---FRANCIS on 4/29/11

Where does the comma go?
2 out 3 of the verses which use the word Paradise says paraside is in, or is heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 and Revelation 2:7

The thief saked to be remember when Jesus came into HIS KINGDOM, and Jesus assured him that he would be in PARADISE. making paradise and the kingdom one and the same.

John 20:17 I am not yet ascended to my Father: (Matthew 6:9) which art in heaven,

Since jesus had not gone to the father that very day or day after, the comma belongs AFTER TO DAY:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
---Francis on 4/29/11

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To understand what this say's you have to read 23:42 and also understand that translators have added the punctuation since there is none in the Greek.

In 23:42 "Jesus remember me when you come in your kingdom". Jesus was the one who was to sit on Davids throne as king. In other words God gave him this kingdom of his Father David (Luke 1:32). In 23:43 it has the punctuation after "unto you", but considering what the previous verse says it should be "I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise", paradise refers to heaven, which Jesus referred to as the "kingdom of heaven" or "kingdom of God".
---willa5568 on 4/29/11

\\Was Jesus promising him THAT DAY ( TODAY) that he would be with Him in paradise or promising him that he would be in paradise with him on that very day.\\

The latter, francis.

Jesus promised the thief (traditionally named Dismas) that they would be in Paradise together that very day.

That's how Christians have understood it from the beginning.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/11

Francis ... Yes I suppose that Jesus felt it necessary to tell the thief that He was not saying it a few days or years before, nor saying it at sometime in the future.

Yes He had to make it quite clear that he was actually saying it at the time He was talking, and not at some other time.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/29/11

Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Was Jesus promising him THAT DAY ( TODAY) that he would be with Him in paradise or promising him that he would be in paradise with him on that very day.

Today in this passage does not refer to the day when the thief would be in paradise, it refers rather to the day on which the promise was made

After all, three days later Jesus said to mary: John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father
---francis on 4/29/11

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First, you said his spirit ascended to heaven. It said he commended (intrusted) his spirit (which also is translated as life) in Gods hand, that God would not leave him in the grave but would raise him again from the dead.

Concerning Ecclesiastes, in 3:18-21 it says we are no different than beasts, we all return to the dust. It also says man and beast have a spirit. In Genesis 2:7 God "breathed the breathe (same word used in Ecc.) of life" and he became alive. What I am trying to show you is without breathe we are but dust (Genesis 2:7 formed man from the dust) and shall return to it (Genesis 3:19 for you are dust and to dust you will return, notice it says YOU ARE dust, not you are a spirit in dust (a body))
---willa5568 on 4/29/11

John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

body and spirit
---aka on 4/29/11

\\IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH cannot be the grave / tomb
---francis on 4/28/11\\

Who said it did?

The tomb (either Holy Sepulchre or Garden Tomb) is above ground.
---Cluny on 4/29/11

I dont know how anyone could deny that Christ went into Paradise before ascending..

Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Mt 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

---paul on 4/29/11

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Maybe you missunderstood my post: When Jesus died, HIS SPIRIT went back to the father: Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

And HIS BODY went into the grave/sepulchre: Luke 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

No part of Him went to hades / hell/ paradise or what ever people are saying. This is what happens to ALL people at death:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---francis on 4/28/11


Jesus was not a spirit but BECAME a life giving spirit (1Corinthians 15:42-54).
---willa5568 on 4/28/11

The Heart of the Earth
Whenever we question the meaning of a passage of Scripture, we must compare it with other related passages and allow the Bible to interpret itself.

The phrase "in the earth" appears 66 times in the King James Version. Not one of those references refers to the grave.

In the Lord's Prayer when we pray, "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven," does that mean we're praying for God's will to be done in the tomb, or the grave, as it is in heaven?

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5. Does that mean they will inherit the tomb or the grave? I think you get my point.
---francis on 4/28/11

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

So Jesus SPIRIT went to be with the FATHER IN heaven. NOT anywhere else.

And this entire going to " hell" thing when he died is a missunderstanding.

By his spirit IN NOAH, the same spirit that raised jesus from the dead, did he preach unto those who die din the flood.
---francis on 4/28/11

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THURSDAY evening Arested, beaten, scorned, spate upon, tried. friday morning tried, FRIDAY evening killed, SATURDAY evening in the grace, arose SUNDAY morning.
3 days and 3 nights doesnot referr ONLY to jesus being in the grave, but rather Jesus enduring the result of sin for us: Jesus paying for our sins did not start at the cross, it started when he was betrayed, arrested and beaten.

Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him, and with his stripes we are healed.
---francis on 4/28/11

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done IN HEART , as it is in heaven.

IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH cannot be the grave / tomb
---francis on 4/28/11

//He said he would be three days and nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH, that is, the lower regions.//

If anybody follows up with the question, "then, how can the thief be with Jesus in Paradise?"

We keep trying to tell you that "without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

But, we tell you not to convince you, but to tell you what the truth is.
---aka on 4/28/11

Jesus gave us a sign that he would remain in the grave for three days and three nights, a 72 hour period, the prophetic sign of Jonah and confirmed by Mark, Matthew, and John. Christ died on Wednesday, was then buried before sunset (the Passover technically started in the evening of Wednesday and ended on Thursday evening and, as jewish tradition, bodies were not to remain on the cross on the "high day", a day not indicated as the weekly sabbath), and then rose again on the evening of Saturday (which technically according to scripture is the start of the first day, Sunday).
---Steveng on 4/27/11

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Judy please let me know how you came up with 1 1/2 days.

Were you refering to the Pagan ritual called Ister (AKA: Easter). A day decreed Holy by the Pagan Emperor Constantine(375AD).

A man who boiled his wife alive and killed his one kids.


Were you refering to G-ds Holy days for the celebration of the ressurection of His Son. called : The Passover.
---John on 4/27/11

If Im not mistaken Jewish days were always from sunset one day to sunset the next day.

Its even recorded in the account of creation.

"the evening and the morning were the first day"
---jacqueline on 4/27/11

I agree with Mark on this.Jesus was crucified the day before
---candice on 4/27/11

to clarify my earlier post,in jesus,s time jewish days were from sunrise to sunset.
---tom2 on 4/27/11

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I think an explanation of how you get only 1 1/2 days are in order.

John 19:14 "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

This verse indicates that the Jews, during the week of Christ's crucifixion, were observing a Passover Sabbath, which must have fallen on Friday of that week.

Mark 15:42 "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath"

This verse tells us that Christ's crucifixion took place on the day before the Sabbath. This was not Friday - the day before the weekly Sabbath, but Thursday - the day before the Passover Sabbath.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/27/11

judy the jews followed days literally by dalight,and night. Jesus died during daylight hors friday,friday evening to saturday morning was 1 day,saturdays daylight until 6pm was day 2,saturday night until sunrise sunday was day 3,3 days in the grave,each day being 12 hours long as was observed by the jews at the time.
---tom2 on 4/27/11

Jesus didn't say he would be dead for three days.

He said he would be three days and nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH, that is, the lower regions.

Remember the 3 hours of darkness? This is how He hurried up time.

As we sing in the Orthodox Church at this time:

In the tomb with the body, in Sheol with the soul, in Paradise with the Thief, on the throne with the Father and the Spirit, were You, O Christ, filling all things, limited by none.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/27/11

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