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Sign Of Cross Biblical

Why do the Catholic and Orthodox church make the sign of the cross? Where can this be found in Scripture? What is the purpose for making the sign of the cross?

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Well---Ruben here is an example and it doesn't involve an interpretation.

mima * "Holy Mary mother of God" is a phrase you're well acquainted with but in actuality Mary is not called holy anyplace in the Bible.

And Jesus is nowhere call part of the Trinity and that word is never use in scripture!

mima * The scriptures also say that all have sinned including Mary.

Scripture also say "And so all Israel shall be saved:"( Romans 11:26) So what did Paul really mean on both accounts?
---Ruben on 5/4/11


Ruben, concerning 2 Thess. 2:15

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle."

This direct exhortation called for appropiate response to the great truths Paul had just written. In place of agitation should come strength and a firm stand. In place of false teaching should come faithful adherence to the truth. Pauls main point in this section was to remind the Thessalonians that there was no need to be agitated or troubled (v.2) thinking they had missed the rapture and thus were in the Day of Judgement.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/11

Mark,

There is no rapture, again why is your interpretation of scripture correct?
---Ruben on 5/4/11


Ruben, concerning 2 Thess. 2:15

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle."

This direct exhortation called for appropiate response to the great truths Paul had just written. In place of agitation should come strength and a firm stand. In place of false teaching should come faithful adherence to the truth. Pauls main point in this section was to remind the Thessalonians that there was no need to be agitated or troubled (v.2) thinking they had missed the rapture and thus were in the Day of Judgement. A little reading of the context tells the story.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/11


// God has kept a renment all through the ages to make sure we received His Word ourselves.//


Yeah they were called Israelites
---Jasheradan on 5/4/11


Christ is Risen! And He is not on the Cross
---michael_e on 5/4/11

"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne" (Rev 5:6)

Why does Heaven have this image?
---Ruben on 5/4/11




Mark_V.*but now born again Christians should be able to discern what is truth and what is not since we now have the Holy Spirit and the Bible at our dispossal where others in history didn't.

The Early Christians did not have the full Bible but went by what the Apostles and their Successors taught by letter and oral(2 Thess 2:15), then you come along and say your interpretation of scriptures is correct over some of the apostles Successors, go figure!
---Ruben on 5/4/11


\\And He is not on the Cross
---michael_e on 5/4/11
\\

Then why did St. Paul say, "We preach Christ crucified"?
---Cluny on 5/4/11


Hey guys, lets be clear about something. The RCC and orthodox church have many things not in Scripture doctrines that I myself discuss here many times. But so do many others also, that carry much of what the RCC taught that was wrong. While the RCC had the most impact on those none Catholic who still carry much of what they taught, but now born again Christians should be able to discern what is truth and what is not since we now have the Holy Spirit and the Bible at our dispossal where others in history didn't. God has kept a renment all through the ages to make sure we received His Word ourselves.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/11


Mark, motioning your hand in the sign of the cross is superstition which has zero virtue, proven in the fact that idolaters likewise do it over a dead body, and thereby it serves zero purpose except to entertain the superstitious delusions of the one making the vain gesture: whereas my marking of the people is so that the person's life that they have is blessed.
---Eloy on 5/4/11


//---Ignatius on 5/3/11
James 1:27)//
What does James have to do with signing of the Cross?

Christ is Risen! And He is not on the Cross
---michael_e on 5/4/11




James L, your answer had a lot of good value when you said,

"It is all in the spiritual condition of the one reciting, signing a cross, etc."

It is the intend of the heart. We do worship God in spirit and in truth. What things we never thought about before that we did, now as Christians they have a meaning.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/11


Eloy ... So what is wrong with the sign of the Cross? How does it differ what you do? Do you suggest it is not done "in the spirit with the blessing of God"?
---alan8566_of_uk on 5/4/11


\\found that ignorance of the Bible among the Catholics...\\
---mima on 5/3/11


I have attended a Baptist church for about 6 months. About a month ago I was asked to teach our Sunday night bible study, and was utterly shocked at the scriptural ignorance of most of them.

Same ignorance at two Assembly of God churches I have attended, and a Nazarene church, a Bible Church, a non-denominational church, etc.

Ignorance of scripture isn't any more rampant in Roman Catholic parishioners than in Lutheran, Episcopal, Baptist, Nazarene, or any other churches.
---James_L on 5/3/11


Alan, Blessing a person as they depart from you is proper, and my doing so is my particular way of marking that person in the spirit with the blessing of God, just as commonly hugging a person or waving good by to a person is also proper.
---Eloy on 5/4/11


I feel if we know the truth we must tell it!
---mima on 5/3/11

Brother,
I have no doubt that what you do, is done out of Love.
But when you single out an individual group, when there are many churches dying from False teachings, it does not give the appearance that it is being done out of love.

When you ask these questions, Remember that God judges the heart.
Do you think those in the RCC and Orthodox church hate God?
I may disagree with you, but when I engage you in a disagreement, I do so, with the knowledge that you love the Lord.
---David on 5/4/11


"If you see someone make the sign of the cross, don't you think that person is religious?
---michael_e on 5/3/11"

According to the Bible, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27). .

Now, if one wish to sign themselves with the cross before and after prayers, how is that wrong and any of your business?

No one in this blog has given any valid objection to signing oneself with the cross.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/3/11


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\\A large sect in this church teaches that Mary is co-Redeemer and that she was without sin.\\

mima, it is NOT a teaching of the Catholic Church that Mary is co-redeemer, though it is true that many Catholics believe it.

But it's just like many Protestants think that you can be saved by saying the non-Biblical "sinner's prayer," though no Protestant Church has officially taught this, nor is it in the Bible. (This is just one of your many unBlblical beliefs, mima.)

Now, just WHAT odes this have to do with your original issue of the Sign of the Cross, mima? Why are you changing subjects on this thread?
---Cluny on 5/3/11


I feel if we know the truth we must tell it!
---mima on 5/3/11

How do you determine that your interpretation of scripture is correct?
---Ruben on 5/3/11

If the O.T. Prophets,Christ and Apostles agree with her it's truth. They are her required witness.
Anything else is unwitnessed opinion.
The Bereans...not knowing the messengers....checked the scriptures to see if it was so.
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
---Trav on 5/3/11


\\when I returned to the United States and found that ignorance of the Bible among the Catholics here was just as bad as it was among the Indians. \\

mima, remember that the Pharisees were Biblical experts, and despite their knowledge of the Bible, they missed Jesus even when He was face to face with them. In fact, Jesus Himself warned us that this could happen.

Watch out lest something similar happens to you!

mima, you're an expert at BTC when you have a supportive audience. But I can't help wondering what you would do face to face with a Scott Hahn or Jerry Atkns or someone like them who REALLY knows what Roman Catholicism teaches, which you clearly do not.
---Cluny on 5/3/11


If you see someone make the sign of the cross, don't you think that person is religious?
---michael_e on 5/3/11


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You know whats so funny, well maybe not so funny.
But it really is!

The words:
You will hear the truth, you will see the truth.
But you will not understand it.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

You get so caught-up with the right and wrong of it.
You really dont see the right and wrong of it.

The things I have said here are true.
1Pe 4:11
Amen.
---TheSeg on 5/3/11


Well---Ruben here is an example and it doesn't involve an interpretation.

"Holy Mary mother of God" is a phrase you're well acquainted with but in actuality Mary is not called holy anyplace in the Bible.
A large sect in this church teaches that Mary is co-Redeemer and that she was without sin. The scripture says that there is salvation in no other name than Christ Jesus. The scriptures also say that all have sinned including Mary.
---mima on 5/3/11


I feel if we know the truth we must tell it!
---mima on 5/3/11


How do you determine that your interpretation of scripture is correct?
---Ruben on 5/3/11


"I was exposed to many things, many false teachings and when I returned to the United States and found that ignorance of the Bible among the Catholics here was just as bad as it was among the Indians. " (Mima)

Well Mima, you, too, exhibit ignorance of the Bible. I and others have corrected you many times in your false traditions, misinterpretations of Scriptures, and misconceptions of the RCC. But you still do yield to our instructions. Too stubborn.

"I feel if we know the truth we must tell it!"

Amen! That is what I have been trying to do here, but you are rejecting sound doctrines.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/3/11


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---David while working among mountain Indians of Mexico(Yaquis) I was exposed to many things, many false teachings and when I returned to the United States and found that ignorance of the Bible among the Catholics here was just as bad as it was among the Indians. They're teaching about purgatory, their works oriented way to salvation, and a specially their beliefs about Mary all combined to mislead many many people to hell. I feel if we know the truth we must tell it!
---mima on 5/3/11


\\cluny, so blasphemes the unregenerate to the born-again Christian.
---Eloy on 5/2/11
\\

That's right, Eloy. You're unregenerate.

But then you're sinuous, too.

**The question was asked to expose "vain repetitions". Matthew 6:7**

Every time you try to get someone to say the "sinner's prayer" to get another notch on your Bible and boast, that's vain repetition and dead works, mima.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/11


The question was asked to expose "vain repetitions". Matthew 6:7,
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Vain repetitions are not limited to words.
---mima on 5/2/11

Mima
I asked, because as an observer,you seem to single out the RCC in your questions.
I am curious as to why.
I see many false teachings in the Church today, and not all of them come from the RCC.
---David on 5/3/11


Vain repetitions. Interesting.

As a kid, there was a boring recitation at the end of church service:

"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer."

After I was born again, I ran across those very words in Psalm 19:14.

Then it took on a completely different meaning, and I have found myself reciting it even recently.

What was vain repetition before has become holy devotion now.

It is all in the spiritual condition of the one reciting, signing a cross, etc.

Who am I to judge the devotion of one that repeats, or ritualizes?

Christ knows those who are His, and the meditations of their hearts
---James_L on 5/2/11


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"Vain repetitions are not limited to words." (Mima)

Says Mima. But where in Scriptures does it teach that, Mima? Is that another one of your many traditions of men?

In Scriptures, different body positions are used while praying.

If one decides to prostrate themselves every time they pray, how is that wrong and any of your business?

It seems like Mima is too legalistic when it comes to praying. He must have a big book with strict rules on the proper way to pray.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 5/2/11


Exactly, Ignatius

I was an insurance broker.
Some insurance brokers are dishonest, but most are honest.

Now I would condemn dishonest brokers.

It does not mean all are dishonest.

And so not all repetition is vain.

But however many times you tell them this, they still drag up "vain repetition" argument to condemn the RCC.

But of course their own repetitions are not vain !
---alan8566_of_uk on 5/2/11


The question was asked to expose "vain repetitions". -mima on 5/2/11"

Exactly Mima. The Bible condemn vain repetitions, not repetitions.

Christ did it (Matthew 26:33), and so do the Angels in Heaven (Revelation 4:8).

Scriptures you should read wherein it is shown that the repeating genuine prayers is approved in Scriptures-->Luke 18:13, Acts 2:10,4, Romans 1:9, 12:12, 1 Thess 5:17, Psalm 136, and Dan 3:35-66.

In Orthodoxy, we are encourage to pray "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on me, a sinner" constantly throughout the day. It is a a Apostolic prayer and not a vain one.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/2/11


The last thing I like to say is.
In the words of the bible too us, doesnt it say things like.
Praise the lord, pray, sing, play instruments, rise hands, bow heads and bend knees.

Look at the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Is the sign of the cross any less then these?
Look in to these hearts. Do you really believe theyre trying to dishonor God?

This I will say if you think someone is offending God in praising is holy name.
It is not them, but you who is offending! Take this to the bank.

Please think!
Mat 5:23-24 gift!
---TheSeg on 5/2/11


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Eloy ... Is this biblical ... the finger bit, I mean.

"I myself mark people with my finger to bless them, but not superstitiously in the sign of the cross, instead I mark them in the Spirit when they are leaving.
---alan8566_of_uk on 5/2/11


ignatius, The scripture is clear, praying in the name of the Lord, anointing with oil, and fasting and laying on of hands is effective: but moving the hand in a motion of a cross is nonBiblical and does zero good.
---Eloy on 5/2/11


Wouldnt a prophet know why God rejected Cain offering?
Is there one here who can tell me why?
---TheSeg on 5/1/11

Cain's offering was rejected for only ONE REASON. It was NOT the offering which God asked for. God asked for a BLOOD SACRIFICE for sin. Cain did not give a blood sacrifice. God does take offering of fruit and grain

But what does that have to do with the blog question?
---francis on 5/2/11


cluny, so blasphemes the unregenerate to the born-again Christian.
---Eloy on 5/2/11


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Because chain offered the best he had, but didnt understand, why!
He should have honored his brother gift too God, also!

Simply, because God accepted it!
To honor God, should you not honor all the things that are acceptable to God?

If you cant glorify your brother in your own eyes, how can you glorify God?

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

I believe this to be the lesson here.
Mat 7:12 for this is the law and the prophets.
God bless!
---TheSeg on 5/2/11


The question was asked to expose "vain repetitions". Matthew 6:7,
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Vain repetitions are not limited to words.
---mima on 5/2/11


\\(1) Cain brought an offering of plants, which come from the ground, which in turn is CURSED because of sin. Genesis 3:17. Unacceptable to GOD? \\

I don't know what this discussion of Cain's offering has to do with the original question of this thread, but remember that God Himself gave laws about making tithes and offerings of produce.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/11


Wouldnt a prophet know why God rejected Cain offering?
---TheSeg on 5/1/11

(1) Cain brought an offering of plants, which come from the ground, which in turn is CURSED because of sin. Genesis 3:17. Unacceptable to GOD?

(2) Cain brought his offering to GOD with a bitter heart. Something that GOD definitely hates. GOD loves a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:6-7.

(3) Spiritual Sacrifices, like the burnt Lamb, are pleasing to GOD. Genesis 22:8.

(4) Other Possibilities? Too many to list in this short blog: 125 word limit.

Did I pass your test?
---Sag on 5/2/11


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I am sorry, But

Wouldnt a prophet know why God rejected Cain offering?
Is there one here who can tell me why?

But then, how would I know if you were right or wrong.
Give it a shot?
---TheSeg on 5/1/11


\\Signing the cross as a gesture of prayer is NonBiblical and manmade superstition, along with every dead ceremony and NonBiblical ritual of sinners, including the recital of "last rites" and prayers for the dead,\\

Everything you do, Eloy, are sinuous dead works and filthy rags.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/11


"I myself mark people with my finger to bless them, but not superstitiously in the sign of the cross, instead I mark them in the Spirit when they are leaving. " (Eloy)

If making the sign of the cross is foolishness to you (and the cross is the foolishness to the Gentiles as Saint Paul wrote) then your little finger gesture is also foolishness and superstition. You can't condemn the former and approve the latter.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/1/11


"Signing the cross as a gesture of prayer is NonBiblical and manmade superstition," (Eloy)

To the unsaved, the words of the cross/it's image, and it's gesture is foolishness. But to the saved, it is a sign of our salvation, our forgiveness, our reconciliation to the Holy Trinity, the defeat of Satan/death, of sin, etc. To those who lack the Spirit of God, the cross is nothing more than madness supertutions/legend/myth.

The Devil and His servants hates the cross and all those who sign themelves with the victourous cross of our Lord, God, and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/1/11


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Mima,

I will say it again. Whoever thinks that signing themselves with the cross is wrong or consider it a sin then the only father they have is the Devil, for who is against the cross and it's power but him and his wicked servants? Only the Devil and his Servants gets angry when Christians sign themselves with the victorious symbol of the cross.

"I hope for your sake I am not anointed in this matter are acting as a prophet."

No, Mima. You are not anointed as a prophet from God because you hold to many traditions of men.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/1/11


"For Jews the Cross is temptation, for pagans it is madness, but for us believers it reminds us of our salvation. When in church one reads about the Cross and one is reminded of the sufferings on the Cross, the faithful are indignant at the Cross and let out a plaintive wail and murmur not at the Cross but at the crucifiers and unbelievers. For the Cross is the salvation of the Church....the praise of those who hope on it. The Cross has released us from the evil that possessed us and is the beginning of the blessings received by us. The Cross is the reconcilement of His enemies with God... For by the Cross we were freed from enmity and through the Cross we have become amiable to God[....]"
-St. John Chrysostom, On the Holy Cross
---IGnatius on 5/1/11


Mima,

You do not actually believe that you are a Holy Prophet from God, do you? You really think I have insulted you, one Anointed by God? Saint John tell us to "test ever Spirit" (1 John 4:1).

God is not against the Cross. Speaking agaist the cross, it's image, it's gesture, and it's power, is from the Devil, the Father of all lies.

The Devil is a liar.

BTW, I don't need your forgiveness nor approval. What Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant Christians do in their private prayers is non of your concern.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---IgNatius on 5/1/11


Whenever I go into a den of some big time hunter and see moose heads, deer antlers etc., hanging on the wall,these are the "trophies" of his exploits. I think of those with effigies of Jesus hanging on a cross that represents satan's "trophy"!
If a dear relative of yours was strangled, would you go around making "choke sign" gestures in memory??
I think not, it's all in the way you look at it!
The "starous" was the instrument used to Kill Jesus, could have been a knife,sword,rope, club etc..
not something to be "reverenced" IMHO
---1st_cliff on 5/1/11


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Leslie, I really like what you said
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

I guess this only leave the bottom. This is most beautiful.
They had to put the blood in something and they needed some kind of brush.

If the brush is in the bucket and you put it back. Just look at it?
You cant do it without making the sign of a cross.
And they were blessing it.
So is it Biblical?

mima is it really foolishness?
Has nothing to do with this. Right!
But you ever hear
Believe by Brooks & Dunn
Listen to it.
GB!
---TheSeg on 5/1/11


"If proclaiming the Cross with words if foolishness to those who are perishing, signing it as a gesture of prayer is foolishness to such people, too."

Signing the cross as a gesture of prayer is NonBiblical and manmade superstition, along with every dead ceremony and NonBiblical ritual of sinners, including the recital of "last rites" and prayers for the dead, the vanity of smearing of ashes upon the heads of the idolaters every year, the burning of candles and incense, and the speaking of empty NonChristian words by the unregenerate, all worthless dead works of the unsaved, which dead works have zero virtue in really helping anyone at all.
---Eloy on 5/1/11


\\Making hand gestures in the sign of a cross is common foolishness among the idolaters,\\

Just proving my point. If proclaiming the Cross with words if foolishness to those who are perishing, signing it as a gesture of prayer is foolishness to such people, too.

**I hope for your sake I am not anointed in this matter are acting as a prophet.**

You don't actually think you're a prophet, do you, mima?

Is your pride THAT swollen?

||why would it not be Biblical for Orthodox to do so?
---Cluny on 4/29/11 ||

I'm not making a claim, John. I'm asking a question.

If I make the Sign of the Cross, how is that any of your business?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/11


It's all part of the rcc's idol worship just like using prayer beads, praying to Mary. Matt.15 v 9.
---Lawrence on 5/1/11


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Making the sign of the Cross is not opposed by the Bible. There is nothing wrong with it. It is no different then holding your hands a certain way when we pray.

The purpose as far as I can figure out is reminging us of the Trinity that we are praying in the name of the Father, son and Holy Ghost or Spirit.

I am only opposed to those traditions that make void scripture or are used to judge others.

When a person uses the tradition of the sign of the cross to judge others they are not following the Love of others that JESUS said we should have.

Ignatius it appears we are somewhat on the same side here:)
---Samuel on 4/30/11


It is NonChristian superstition, along with throwing salt over your shoulder, not stepping on cracks on a sidewalk, being careful on Friday the 13th, et cetera and et cetera. Making hand gestures in the sign of a cross is common foolishness among the idolaters, and in doing so protects no one. I myself mark people with my finger to bless them, but not superstitiously in the sign of the cross, instead I mark them in the Spirit when they are leaving.
---Eloy on 5/1/11


John,

I owe you an apology.

I did not see your first post.

I usually try to read from bottom to top. Anyway, I missed it, and ...

I AM SORRY!!!

(just did that for effect :~)
---aka on 5/1/11


"In matter of fact, I am bold enough in the Name of Jesus to say that anyone who speak against making the sign of the cross have one father, and it is Satan.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/29/11

Ignatius the above statement is very strong. But I want to know that for my part I forgive you for making such a statement.

In first Chronicles 16:22 it says," Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." I hope for your sake I am not anointed in this matter are acting as a prophet.
---mima on 5/1/11


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\Cluny/Ignacious, Please site the scripture to support your claims.
---John on 4/29/11\\

John, please tell us exactly what we have claimed.

Be specific.
ClunyIgnacious on 4/30/11

HERE IT IS GUYS...

The sign of the cross is in the Bible, Mima.
---Ignatius on 4/29/11
==========================================================
why would it not be Biblical for Orthodox to do so?
---Cluny on 4/29/11

PS...

I NEVER CLAIMED WRITING G-D WAS IN THE BIBLE OR THAT IT WAS ANYONES BUSINESS, BUT MY OWN!!!
---John on 4/30/11


\\Cluny/Ignacious, Please site the scripture to support your claims.
---John on 4/29/11\\

John, please tell me exactly what I have claimed.

Be specific.
---Cluny on 4/30/11


btw,

where is wearing a wedding ring in the Scripture?

where is sharing vows in the Scripture?

where are altar calls in the Scripture?

//as a pagan symbol//

we know, jerry, everything that is not SDA is pagan.
---aka on 4/30/11


it appears that we had this discussion before. and to say the truth, however the bible does not say "tou shall make a cross before and after prayer. i believe it is a very christian thing to do. i wear a ring with a cross and people do recognise me as a christ-like person, besides whenever i'm busy doing something and my hands move i see' the cross and it makes me more aware of my christian duties. so there's no bad deal in it.of couurse, one should not wear the cross as a talisman as some tend to do. so however people say it is idolatry i do notr think so
---andy3996 on 4/30/11


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Throwing stones again Mima?

Why do you believe that you are not under the Law, when God has written his law on your heart and in your mind?
If you were not under the Law, why would God do this?

When God wrote his Laws on the Stone tablets, the Jews were under the Laws of Moses, but when God writes his Law on your heart, you are not under the law of Christ.

Talk about strange traditions!
---David on 4/30/11


The cross was anciently revered as a pagan symbol of the sun (ostensibly because a cross pattern is seen when squinting at the sun). The hot cross buns mimic the pagan "cakes made to the queen of heaven". Constantine was "converted" from sun worship to Christianity when he saw a cross in the sky. Crossing oneself likely has similar pagan origins.
---jerry6593 on 4/30/11


"Cluny/Ignacious, Please site the scripture to support your claims.
---John on 4/29/11"

Be specific.

By the way, Sola Scriptura is a extra biblical, and anti-biblical tradition. Like I and Cluny have said many times, we do not have to play by your rules.

While we at it, please John, provide Scripture for your Jewish Fathers tradition in typing "G-d" instead of "God" as Christians do. But wait, you can't. Like you said before, this is a "Tradition of John".

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/29/11


john //Cluny/Ignacious, Please site the scripture to support your claims.//

Please site Scripture where it is permitted to write the word G-d.

mima //What is the purpose for making the sign of the cross?//

What is the purpose for putting hands together and looking up in prayer? Where can this be found in Scripture?
---aka on 4/29/11


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Mima: Why do you ask? Why are all of the questions that are critical of Catholicism from Mima? Do you have nothing better to do than stir strife?
---Trish on 4/29/11


Cluny/Ignacious, Please site the scripture to support your claims.
---John on 4/29/11


\\It is not biblical.
---candice on 4/29/11\\

Why do you say that, candice?

Where does the Bible forbid it?

**However, when Catholics do the sign of the cross in just normal prayer, it may not be Biblical,**

Why not, Leslie? Give a specific reason from the Bible.

And even if it's not Biblical for Catholics to do so, why would it not be Biblical for Orthodox to do so?
---Cluny on 4/29/11


The sign of the cross is in the Bible, Mima.

Please tell us why making the sign of the cross (considering the Biblical theology of the cross) wrong?

And it is not just us and the Catholics. The Non-Chalcedonian Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, Lutherans, Anglicans, some Presbyterians, some Methodists, and a few other Protestants, fetc, have also retained this early Christian practice of "signing" themselves with the sign of the cross.

Mima, do you get angry when Christians make the sign of the cross?

In matter of fact, I am bold enough in the Name of Jesus to say that anyone who speak against making the sign of the cross have one father, and it is Satan.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 4/29/11


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It is not biblical.
---candice on 4/29/11

You being on a computer is also not biblical.

Are you using this reasoning as a excuse that making the sign of the cross should be avoided by Christians? Just curious.

It's one thing to say a tradition is not in the Bible, and another to say that a tradition is false because it can not be verified in Scriptures. Are you claiming the latter?

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 4/29/11


The purpose is to remind us of God's love for us and also to remind us to crucify our fleshly desires on a daily basis to serve our Savior.

Not Biblical but then again neither is a Reese's peanut butter cup. Both still very good!!
---Jasheradan on 4/29/11


It may not be Biblical, however if one wishes to pray in such a way, Then let it be, it is not wrong.

How dare any of us critzise someones personal way of worship if it is not heretical or paganistic.

WOE to those who place a stumbling block on these who pray in such a way.

IT WOULD BE LIKE CRITIZING SOMEONE FOR SPELLING G-D, INSTEAD OF GOD.
---John on 4/29/11


It is not biblical.
---candice on 4/29/11


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It's not just Catholics and Orthodox, mima.

It's Lutherans, Anglicans of all stripes, and even Baptists in Russia who do so.

If the very word "Cross" is foolishness to those who are perishing, how much more its visible representation in art or even as a gesture?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/29/11


It is not from the Bible but the Bible does not oppose it. Jews used to wear portions of scripture. Chistians making the sign of the Cross is no different.
---Samuel on 4/29/11


Is clasping your hands when you pray Biblical? Is closing your eyes when you pray biblical?

The cross is VERY biblical. Is there anything in the bible more biblical that the cross?

Was not our very salvation purchased ON THE CROSS?

So I see nothing wrong with making the sign of the cross before and after you pray.
It is a sign that you are praying IN JESUS' NAME.

Because the cross is biblical, so it the sign of the cross.
---Francis on 4/29/11


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