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Perform Miracle To Be Saint

Scripture teaches those who have a trusting and committed faith in Christ are Saints. The Roman Catholic Church teaches an individual must performed at least one miracle to to be a Saint. What are your thoughts?

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 ---Rob on 5/2/11
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catholic idolaters are not Christians: "Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness? and what concord has Christ with belieal? or what part has he that believes with an infidel? and what agreement has the temple of God with idols? for you all are the temple of the living God: as God has said, I will dwell and walk in them: and I will be their God. and they will be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be you all separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean, and I will receive you, and will be a Father to you, and you all will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." II Cor.6:14-18.
---Eloy on 6/13/11


it is not relevant what roman catholic idolaters believe
---Eloy on 6/4/11

Luke: 6:13 "Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.
Luke 6:"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I command?
47
15 I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, listens to my words, and acts on them.
48
That one is like a person building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock, ...
49
But the one who listens and does not act is like a person who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, it collapsed at once and was completely destroyed."
---Philomena on 6/5/11


I wish to associate myself with the following remark,"it is not relevant what roman catholic idolaters believe, for they are NonChristian."
---Eloy on 6/4/11
---mima on 6/5/11


it is not relevant what roman catholic idolaters believe, for they are NonChristian.
---Eloy on 6/4/11


Philomena, that is axactly what I said. They get recognized as saints for something they did in life. Their works. And if it big enough they get sainthood. Your interpretation may have many meanings, but they all lead to works.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/11




\\"the Roman Catholic Church teaches acts of miracles are necessary for someone to become a saint is because they believe in salvation by works." Mark_V.\\

As I have said earlier, "Saint" in the Roman Catholic (and other Pre-Reformation Churches) refer to liturgical commemoration after death.

Do you get what I'm trying to say, Mark V?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/4/11


"the Roman Catholic Church teaches acts of miracles are necessary for someone to become a saint is because they believe in salvation by works." Mark_V.

Actually, a miracle through the intercession of a person who is worthy of emulation by the faithful AFTER his/her death is required for beatification and then again for canonization in the Catholic Church.
---Philomena on 6/4/11


Rob, the reason the Roman Catholic Church teaches acts of miracles are necessary for someone to become a saint is because they believe in salvation by works. Been saved by Grace through faith, they believe, does not make anyone a saint. You have to work for that title. And get a hold of this, the one's who make them saints are sinners themselves.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/11


\\Cluny: "Neither of these things, [sic] can be said about SDA."

Not true! If you were TRULY orthodox, you'd be an SDA.
---jerry6593 on 5/24/11\\

Sorry, but I don't believe in the infallibility of the Pope, and I don't believe in the infallibility of EGW, either (though she herself did).

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 6/3/11


"The Word can often be interpreted in more than one way." -Donna66 on 5/24/11

That is very true. That is why the Catholic Church passed on the teaching of the apostles who were with Jesus during His ministry! It is still so today. That is why there is a Magisterium, or teaching authority, of the Church, so we can get the same teaching today that was given church members 2000 years ago. The Church guards the "deposit of faith."
---Philomena on 6/2/11




Rhonda---// "either one believes EVERY Word of God or one believes men and their fancies"//

Even if one believes EVERY Word of God, The Word can often be interpreted in more than one way. The RCC, as well as most protestant churches, like to think their own interpretation is the correct one.
---Donna66 on 5/24/11


Cluny: "Neither of these things, [sic] can be said about SDA."

Not true! If you were TRULY orthodox, you'd be an SDA.
---jerry6593 on 5/24/11


\\Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman [church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.\\

Neither of these things, can be said about SDA.

They neither keep the commandments of God NOR have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/11


Rhonda: "either one believes EVERY Word of God or one believes men and their fancies"

OR one can believe scripture and Tradition. Please remember, the *Church* is the "pillar and foundation of Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), NOT scripture. As I have said before, Jesus never commanded a book to be written, rather, in Mark 3:14 and 16:15 Jesus commands *preaching* of the Gospel message: "He said to them, 'Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. And He clearly gave us A CHURCH. When someone has a problem with a brother, WHICH church does he take it to if each person is of a different denomination??
---Philomena on 5/22/11


\\ What they replaced the church with was much better then been a slave to the RCC church.\\

Was it?

\\ Everyone became free, able to read the Word of God themselves, and permitting the Holy Spirit to bring Truth to individuals,\\

Did they? Remember that most people couldn't read at this point. And why has the Holy Spirit come up with several thousand different truths, based on the number of Protestant denominations?

\\ Truth that had disappeared within the Church.\\

Had it?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/22/11


Cluny: "The Orthodox Church is the only one following Apostolic teaching."

Not hardly! The Apostles, like Jesus Himself, were Commandment-keeping Jews. You teach Commandment breaking, and disdain for the Jews and the Old Testament.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman [church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
---jerry6593 on 5/21/11


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//Cluny on 5/21/11//

Maybe so, though I believe as that what I teach is apostolic and biblical just as you do.It all boils down to what is apostolic teaching? Everyone has it right and no one has it wrong nor will they admit they were. The Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran and similar Churchs, which are an off shoot of the Catholic church, though they have rejected much of their teaching, have a great deal of ritual and traditions that I do not believe are Apostolic.So, who's right? I suppose God will have to decide, because I have not seen anyone who thinks they are wrong
---willa5568 on 5/21/11


//Then why did St. Paul say, "We preach Christ crucified"?//

Paul preached Christ crucified, because He had been crucified.
Paul revelation was from Christ ascended. Paul's message is from this side of the Cross, not His earhly ministry

Christ is risen, not on the Cross
---michael_e on 5/21/11


willa: "What exactly do you consider apostolic teaching." Following Scripture and Tradition as taught by Apostles and passed on through successors of Peter. In the 100's, St. Irenaeus wrote a list of eleven Popes who succeeded Peter, then wrote: "In this order, and by the teaching of the Apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us." The church passed this on before there was a New Testament. Papal succession brings the same teaching: Eucharist is Jesus' Body and Blood. The Apostles/successors can forgive and retain sins. The reformers left the church to created "new" truth removing 7 books/Bible which didn't support their new doctrine.
---Philomena on 5/21/11


There is the Holy Word of God found in Holy Scriptures written by mortal men inspired by The Father in Heaven

then there is the word of rcc and per their catechism developed and written by mortal men have created idea's and extra curricular activities to "saint-hood"

NOTICE Holy Scripture never identifies any other "source" yet misguided men always want to have their own special source they wild claims of having divine authority

either one believes EVERY Word of God or one believes men and their fancies

I choose Holy Scripture as my ONLY source ...otherwise believe mortal men who claim The Father in Heaven made mistakes and needed the catechism as "higher" authority than GOD
---Rhonda on 5/21/11


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The true Church of God is not a denominational building. The Church comprises of genuinely born-again christians who are sanctified and spirit-filled.
---Olugbenga_Morebise on 5/21/11


ibelieve if you are a true follower of jesus christ,that hos own words says you can and will perform miracles,and by this sign will they know you follow me ye shall lay hands on the sick and cure them,ye shall cast out demons,and more even unto raising the dead.
---tom2 on 5/21/11


\\If I understand you correctly, you are coming from the perspective of Catholic teaching.\\

Is that any different from your coming from a perspective of your own teaching, willa?

The Orthodox Church is the only one following Apostolic teaching.

Just wanted to let you know.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/11


Cluny, I wish you got your facts right. First of all the reformers were mostly Catholic. They never wanted to leave the church. They wanted to reform the church. To get back to the real roots. But the church had changed so much with their own traditions and control of the members. Controlling the Bible and interpreting the Word of God as they chose fit to do. What they replaced the church with was much better then been a slave to the RCC church. Everyone became free, able to read the Word of God themselves, and permitting the Holy Spirit to bring Truth to individuals, Truth that had disappeared within the Church.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/11


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Philomena on 5/20/11
// It still follows apostolic teaching!//

What exactly do you consider apostolic teaching. If I understand you correctly, you are coming from the perspective of Catholic teaching. If I am wrong forgive me, I would think we are in agreement then. But if I am right, there's little apostolic teaching. It's traditions, rituals and even in some cases honoring Mary in the same sense as Gods son. I am sure, if we are not in agreement, you don't feel this way. I do not in anyway judge you, but I do hope you will not let presupposition hinder your desire for truth. I desire with a passion to know the truth about God and His scripture, and because of that I have had to change many things about my understanding of scripture.
---willa5568 on 5/20/11


\\Christ is risen, not on the Cross\\

Then why did St. Paul say, "We preach Christ crucified"?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/11


Scripture teaches those who have a trusting and committed faith in Christ are Saints. Paul himself refers to this some 40 times, having nothing to do with the individual performing a miracle.

Christ is risen, not on the Cross
---michael_e on 5/20/11


willa: "The church the Reformers left was corrupted, full of greed and enslaved people to their doctrine..."

Still, Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. He never said that there would be any other churches! You said that the church was corrupted, etc. Isn't that referring to the gates of hell? The Church Jesus founded still exists today...and the gates of hell are still trying to tear it down. It still follows apostolic teaching!
---Philomena on 5/20/11


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\\But there has always been that remnant that does go back to the biblical doctrine.\\

It's called the Eastern Orthodox Church, willa.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/11


Cluny,

I agree, it didn't change to much. But there has always been that remnant that does go back to the biblical doctrine. I was just making a point that the Catholic church's traditions were not for edification but for control, which in many cases is no different today, just no one being put to death (probably because of the law not because they wouldn't).
---willa5568 on 5/20/11


\\The church the Reformers left was corrupted, full of greed and enslaved people to their doctrine, to the point that unless you could read Latin, you could not read scripture, so that no one could see if what they said was so or not. \\

Do you think what they replaced it with was anything better? If you actually think so, look around you.

Too bad they didn't go back to the ORIGINAL, CONTINUING Church that didn't have these issues.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/11


-Philomena on 5/19/11
The church the Reformers left was corrupted, full of greed and enslaved people to their doctrine, to the point that unless you could read Latin, you could not read scripture, so that no one could see if what they said was so or not. They used fear to bring submission and many times death to those they considered heretics. Their doctrine was far from 1500 yrs in the past unless you would use the Greek philosophical understand of man and God.
---willa5568 on 5/19/11


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Thank you for your response, Willa5568. I would like to submit to you that Jesus never commanded a book to be written, rather, in Mark 3:14 and 16:15 Jesus commands *preaching* of the Gospel message: "He said to them, 'Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Thus we accept the Tradition passed down from the Apostles.

Also, there may have been many reasons for challenging the Church during the time of the Reformation, but in Matthew 16 Jesus says that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (singular). If memory serves me correctly, people left the Church that Jesus founded during the Reformation, to form their own Church(es) and change 1500 years of doctrine.
---Philomena on 5/19/11


-Philomena on 5/18/11

My point is that a great deal of the traditions of the Catholic church are not the tradition taught in scripture. I have read some of the church Fathers writings and have seen that they do not always agree making their testimony not something I would build on though they are useful. The Catholic church has adopted traditions that stem from Greek philosophy, which many of the church fathers in twined in their teaching. These traditions are not biblical doctrine but are to be believed, which is why I said when a tradition becomes a requirement of your faith it is no longer a tradition. And you also have to remember the winner writes the history. There are very good reasons for the Reformation and this is one.
---willa5568 on 5/19/11


Philomena: "Tradition and Scripture are both important. From the above scripture, it is clear that scripture is not sufficient."
What if someone is a new believer and had only been taught pagan tradition? How would they know what tradition to follow? Wouldn't they need to go to the Word to find out?
Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God
---chris on 5/19/11


How are the doctrines taught by the apostles in this place any different than any other place willa5568? It's the same Gospel message. How can the word traditions be separated out here? How can it make sense that traditions were taught in this place and nowhere else (which is what you are implying if I understand correctly) if they were teaching only one Gospel message?

1 Thess 14: "For you, brothers, have become imitators of the churches of God that are in Judea in Christ Jesus." This scripture suggests that the same message was followed in these other churches, doesn't it?
---Philomena on 5/18/11


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Philomena on 5/17/11

hear is a translation that helps to better understand what tradition means in this context.

"Therefore, brethren, stand, and hold firmly the doctrines which ye were taught, whether by the word, or by our epistle." (Smiths Literal Translation)

"The word paradoseis, which we render tradition, signifies anything delivered in the way of teaching, and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians, whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these letters." (Clarke)
---willa5568 on 5/18/11


I appreciate your response, willa5568: "I would suggest all who are christians build our beliefs on scripture and not what we have been told we should believe."

I would like to offer you this scripture:

2Thes 2:15 "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." Tradition and Scripture are both important. From the above scripture, it is clear that scripture is not sufficient.
---Philomena on 5/17/11


//Philomena on 5/15/11//

I do not think the church fathers are more reliable than scripture or that we should base our beliefs on what they say necessarily. Traditions are not evil in themselves. But when you make them something that is a must it is no longer a tradition.

I would suggest all who are christians build our beliefs on scripture and not what we have been told we should believe. If you are afraid to be challenged about what you believe then do you really believe it? When I say challenged I do not mean to debate why you are right but rather to be objective with the possibility that you may be wrong.
---willa5568 on 5/16/11


Which came first, apostolic teaching or the bible? The Catholic Church passes on apostolic teaching. The New Testament has come from that, not the other way around. "Tradition" does not contradict Biblical teaching. Look into what the fathers of the Church taught and also what was found in the catacombs which support Catholic teaching. Please do not be so quick to condemn that which you do not understand.

Larry said: "The RCC teaches a lot of things the bible does not teach. Traditions, papacy, beatification, etc."
---Philomena on 5/15/11


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\\The RCC teaches a lot of things the bible does not teach. Traditions, papacy, beatification, etc.
---larry on 5/14/11
\\

But so do Protestants: sinner's prayer, revival, altar calls, etc.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/14/11


Its silliness. The RCC teaches a lot of things the bible does not teach. Traditions, papacy, beatification, etc.
---larry on 5/14/11


Steven G, it did not take a long time for you to use Satan as your defender. It was only a matter of time. Those who have no answers, have a good defender. Just throw Satan at them. It only gives evidence of who you really are.
You first said Jesus didn't perform any miracles on Steveng on 5/3/

"Jesus did not perform any miracles. He said so himself."
That is why I answered to. Now you say:

"The miracles that Christ perfromed was not from himself"

So you lied the first time. And are not retracking what you said. So who is twisting the words?
---Mark_V. on 5/14/11


Mark_V.: "Steven G, you rather be wrong? Wouldn't you want to be right some times?"

Again, you have taken my post out of context. Like Satan, you have taken part of my post and twisted it around to meet you anger in your heart against me. Well, actually, against God. You really need to stop doing that for God is reading your heart and what you are doing against his word. Your worldly knowledge of the word of God is great, but your spiritual knowledge of the word of God needs work.
---Steveng on 5/13/11


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Mark_V.: "All those miracles where to authenticate they were from Christ."

The miracles that Christ perfromed was not from himself. Jesus said so himself. If you don't believe what Jesus said, you are calling him a liar and you don't have the Holy Spirit within you.
---Steveng on 5/13/11


I have a dictionary of the saints with over 3,000 mentioned. And there are a great many that did not perform miracles. Also the word saint in scripture does not refer to any person specifically who performed a miracle, but rather to those of the church.
---willa5568 on 5/12/11


Steven G, you rather be wrong? Wouldn't you want to be right some times? You know full well if you are honest that Jesus did a lot of miracles while He was here in His incarnate state. He could not do more miracles that people could witness with their eyes because He was going to die. He was limited to His time here. That same power He gave the apostles and they also did a lot of mircles. All those miracles where to authenticate they were from Christ. When people do things now they call miracles, they cannot proof they come from God. No way of proving their works come from Christ. Some even claim it comes from them. That is why they same it came from so and so. Stop been offended and stick up for the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11


Mark_V.: "Steven G, I love you but your totally wrong."

I'd rather be wrong in your eyes than preach against the word of God.
---Steveng on 5/12/11


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Steven G, I love you but your totally wrong. John 14:10-15, You said:
"Jesus did not perform any miracles. He said so himself. As a matter of fact, he said that christians are to perform miracles greater than him only if they have the Holy Spirit"
Jesus and the apostles performed miracles. Second, what He said in those verse does not say miracles, but "greater works then these he will do" Jesus did not mean greater works in power, but in extent. They would become witnesses to all the world through the power of the indwelling and infilling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8) and would bring many to salvation because of the Comforter dwelling in them. The focus is on spiritual rather than physical miracles.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/11


Keep on blessing me, Steveng.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/9/11


Cluny: "Miracles in themselves mean nothing."

Besides prophesy, miracles show that God does exist. People, such as yourself, have hardened hearts knowing the knowledge of God, but denying his power. Christians are not to be just hearers of the Word, but doers.

John 2:11
John 2:23
John 6:2
John 6:14
John 6:26
Acts 6:8
Acts 8:6
Acts 15:12
Acts 19:11
1 Corinthians 12:10, 28
Galatians 3:5

Most christians can not do the miracles Jesus and the apostles performed because of a lack of faith.

Try this: walk up to a diseased person thinking to heal him. Your fear has kept you from doing so.

Warning: false miracles workers.
---Steveng on 5/7/11


\\Besides, if I told you, you would not believe me unless you actually saw what I did. Even you saw me perform a miracle, you would still not believe me and think I was of the devil. (actually, I do not perform miracles, God does through me.)\\

Miracles in themselves mean nothing. What doctrine comes with them? Jannes and Jambres and Simon Magus worked lying signs and wonders.

\\You are one of those who will rejoyce and exchange gifts when you see the dead prophets laying in the street.\\

Are you so deluded you think you're a prophet or wonderworker?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/6/11


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Great Points! Darlene1/AKA.

StevenG is engaging in twisting and perverting scripture. HERESY!

All who live in heaven cannot do ANYTHING without the will of the Father PERIOD!!!

PERFECT LOVE = PERFECT OBEDIENCE! (100%)

NOW STEVENG...

Jesus said to us "YOU CAN DO "NOTHING" WITHOUT ME!"

So much for doing greater things than The Christ who impowers it in the first place.

YOU NEED TO STUDY SCRIPTURE STEVENG, PRAY, AND .... LISTEN!!!
---John on 5/6/11


Darlen_1,

don't fret. either the Holy Spirit breathed word lies, or Steveng needs to reevaluate his take on this.

Steveng,

Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,...but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." If Jesus sees His Father and His Father can perform miracles, so can He.

Jesus said that we will perform greater 'works' (actions) than He (not miracles). E.g. an overseas missionary imprisoned and tutored everyday for 30 years because he would not deny Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not say He could not...he just said that we will through the Spirit...which may include a miracle.
---aka on 5/6/11


Steveng,I never called Christ a liar,that is a big untruth. I gave Bible verses proving he performed miracles,and I never denied his power came from the father,just the opposite,I gave verses showing that it did. Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them saying. All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. You are trying to make an argument where there is none. Christ can only do what he sees the Father do,doesn't mean he can't do miracles because God gave him "all" power,including to do miracles,in heaven and earth. He is the only human being given all power by God all the rest have limited power,and the fullness of power comes only at the time of the miracles.
---Darlene_1 on 5/6/11


Darlene_1: "...are verses which say Jesus did miracles."

You are calling Jesus a liar for he specifically said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." John 5:19
---Steveng on 5/5/11


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Cluny, I offered a nice clear gentle apology,...and now you're in "attack mode". I HAVE spoken well of Catholics, but apparently you want to make a fool of me. 'BOOK PEOPLE' (as opposed to "spirit" people) often find themselves doing the same thing as you. Now you see the shortcoming of your partisan upbringing (you completely lack the quality of "graciousness"). Essentially, that's EXACTLY what I've been writing about (a HEART that would stand above "THE BOOK"). I believe that some have caught on, but you decided to bind yourself to the book. You'll never understand unless you conform to "the image of HIS SON" instead of His BOOK (Romans 8:29) "be conformed to the image of his Son".
---more_excellent_way on 5/5/11


Steveng Jesus is the Word of God made flesh by him the Heavens and Earth were formed,that was a miracle. Jesus said he is in the Father and the Father in him,also I and my Father are one. Futhermore all power in heaven and earth was given unto Jesus. He did miracles, John 18,23,Mark 6:1,2,and John 14:11 are verses which say Jesus did miracles.
---Darlene_1 on 5/5/11


tutored = tortured

(tutored fits too :~)
---aka on 5/4/11


\\I have not been a Catholic for 46 years, so I am not familiar with the specific books in the Catholic bible. I have no condescending attitude towards ANY Catholic PERSON. I have not compared the two canons.

...

If anyone would feel a need to respond to anything I write, please reply informatively specifying which books are added (or removed, if any). I apologize for suggesting that I definitely know that some were removed (it was meant as no offense).\\

In other words, you know nothing about Roman Catholicism, but are going to make accusations (e.g., they cut books out of the Bible), yet will be offended when asked to back up your charges.

Do I understand you properly?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/11


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//,..."// Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,...but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." If Jesus sees His Father and His Father can perform miracles, so can He.

Why would Jesus say that He cannot perform miracles, but we will perform more miracles that He?

Jesus said that we will perform greater 'works' (actions) than He (not miracles). E.g. an overseas missionary imprisoned and tutored everyday for 30 years because he would not deny Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not say He could not...he just said that we will through the Spirit.
---aka on 5/4/11


aka: " [Steveng] Where does it say that specifically?"

Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,..."

John 5:19
John 5:30
John 14:10
John 8:28

Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do, because I go unto my Father."

John 14:10-15
---Steveng on 5/4/11


Ignatius: "How many miracles have you performed that were greater than Jesus? Please specified."

Only a worldly person would seek proof.

Besides, if I told you, you would not believe me unless you actually saw what I did. Even you saw me perform a miracle, you would still not believe me and think I was of the devil. (actually, I do not perform miracles, God does through me.)

You are one of those who will rejoyce and exchange gifts when you see the dead prophets laying in the street.
---Steveng on 5/4/11


I have not been a Catholic for 46 years, so I am not familiar with the specific books in the Catholic bible. I have no condescending attitude towards ANY Catholic PERSON. I have not compared the two canons.

The Catholic PEOPLE learn "CONSCIENCE" (this is THE 'formation of a genuine human being' and the proper use of the knowledge wrongfully chosen in Eden).

If anyone would feel a need to respond to anything I write, please reply informatively specifying which books are added (or removed, if any). I apologize for suggesting that I definitely know that some were removed (it was meant as no offense).

Amomg all humanity (even spirituality), "conscience" is RARE. Consider it a blessing to be Catholic.
---more_excellent_way on 5/4/11


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"If many christians profess to have the Holy Spirit within them, why does the world not see miracles performed greater than Jesus?
---Steveng on 5/3/11"

How many miracles have you performed that were greater than Jesus? Please specified.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/3/11


I realize it's more fun to look down upon Roman Catholics and feel spiritually and morally superior to them, but allow me to point out that "saint" in this context basically means public liturgical commemoration, and no more.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/11


//Jesus did not perform any miracles. //

John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory, and his disciples believed on him.

//He said so himself.//

???

//As a matter of fact, he said that christians are to perform miracles greater than him only if they have the Holy Spirit in them.//

Where does it say that specifically?
---aka on 5/4/11


Darlene_1: "No person living or dead, except Jesus Christ,has ever performed a miracle."

Jesus did not perform any miracles. He said so himself. As a matter of fact, he said that christians are to perform miracles greater than him only if they have the Holy Spirit in them. If many christians profess to have the Holy Spirit within them, why does the world not see miracles performed greater than Jesus?
---Steveng on 5/3/11


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Not to downgrade the RCC but this is a bunch of bullcorn.....
---Robyn on 5/3/11


more_excellent_way,

Which books from the Bible has the Roman Catholic Church removed?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 5/3/11


The attitude toward all things in the kingdom of God system:
I AM therefore I DO.
NOT, I DO therefore I AM.
That's backward and teaches that our identification is based on works, not calling. Calling is what God planned us TO BE before creation. Then God called it at creation. Then HE rested on the 7th day because, TO HIM, OUR CALLING WAS A FINISHED WORK! God isn't God because of His mighty acts. He does mighty acts because HE'S GOD!
I AM in Jesus Christ therefore NOW I AM already a saint.
"IN MY(Jesus) NAME they(me and you) shall take up serpents, cast out devils, speak with new languages, if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." Mark 16:17-18
---Legends on 5/3/11


\\The Catholics have their own beliefs and version of scripture (some books added, some omitted) and their first intention is to be a proper MEMBER OF CATHOLICISM. They believe their church to be founded by PETER (look up "Incident at Antioch" at wikipedia).\\

What books do Catholics omit, more_excellent_way?

Be specific.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/11


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All Spirit-filled believers are saints (that is according non-Catholic scripture). The Catholics have their own beliefs and version of scripture (some books added, some omitted) and their first intention is to be a proper MEMBER OF CATHOLICISM. They believe their church to be founded by PETER (look up "Incident at Antioch" at wikipedia).

You do not have to perform ANYTHING to be a saint, Jesus did all the "works" (John 6:28 and 9:3). OUR "works" are performed completely by trusting that JESUS did all that is necessary (read Romans 9).

Do not become "puffed up".
---more_excellent_way on 5/3/11


Actually it's two miracles.

But are you really looking for objective thoughts on this matter, or are you just starting another round of BTC?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/11


Paul wrote to the saints at Rome, Ephesus, Philippi, etc

And I hardly think he was writing only to miracle workers
---James_L on 5/2/11


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