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When Is Someone Saved

At what point in time is a person "saved"? I have seen 3 different opinions on ChristiaNet.

1) "Chosen" from the foundation of the earth.

2) At conversion - when one accepts Christ.

3) At the last day when Jesus comes in the clouds.

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/6/11
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willa, the Key word I used is KNOW...not wanted.

Are you telling me you still don't KNOW Jesus Christ? Do you WANT to KNOW Him?

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

You will only find it when you KNOW..((strongs 1097))...Jesus Christ.

There are many definitions for KNOW in scripture...but 1097 is the KEY.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/11


After I was saved, PHIL 3 touched me in such a way, because I was experiencing something so amazing, beyond words.

Jesus tells us, Depart from me...I never KNEW you. Interestingly the same word 1097 strongs.

It's the same word as Adam KNOWING Eve,intimitely. Stating Joseph did not KNOW Mary until after Jesus was born. Well we know he knew her, but not in the consumation of oneness.

So many here have head KNOWledge, but don't KNOW personally and intimitely Jesus Christ, in a oneness beyond words.

He prayed for this in John 17...to KNOW, and to be ONE.

This is the marks of those of His Body, His Church.

We KNOW that we KNOW that we KNOW that we are ONE,in life, and death, in suffering, in Glory.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/11


What was Paul pressing on to? Salvation? NO! Perfection? Well, if pressing towards the MARK is perfection...then what is the MARK, and what is the prize? Read this carefully. I press TOWARDS the mark FOR THE PRIZE Of what?

14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Willa, scripture clearly states, GOD will reveal this to you..

However one must obey Romans 12: 1-2 before God can reveal anything unto you.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/11


kathr4453 on 5/16/11

the key word you used and he used is WANTED. Have you reached a place Paul said he had not obtained yet? If so please counsel me in how you reached this place of perfection(to complete/finish not maturity) because that is my desire too.
---willa5568 on 5/16/11


Paul wanted to KNOW the power of Jesus resurrection and to KNOW the fellowship of Jesus sufferings.

Paul wanted to understand and experience the power found in Jesus resurrection, and he wanted to understand and experience the fellowship found in Jesus sufferings. In other words, he wanted to KNOW Jesus throughly.

Even Peter stated:

"Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you, but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy" 1 Peter 4:12-13.

Do you KNOW teh Lord this way??....I do!
---kathr4453 on 5/16/11




Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Exactly michael_e..we are already seated with Christ in Heavenly places. OUR citizenship NOW is in Heaven...

The Church, aka the Body of Christ is a HEAVENLY community, In Christ.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/11


Matthew 11:27"... no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.(who does he reveal himself to?)
28"come to me ALL who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Does this mean all who are chosen only? I don't think so


John 10: 27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." who hear his voice? Jesus "...is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: 13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. "faith comes from hearing...the word of Christ. how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard?
---willa5568 on 5/16/11


jerry6593, Number 2 is correct, because the Christian surrendered their life and is converted to Christs body: God says, a new heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And Jesus says again, I am the door, by me if anyone enter in, that one will be Saved. I am glorified in them that are mine, and they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. And where I am, there will also my servant be, and that one will Father of me honor, and our dwelling in that one we will make. And you all will be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
---Eloy on 5/16/11


kathr,

Phillipians 3:15 "...those of us who are mature(G5046 teleios (tel'-ei-os) adj.
1. complete(mature))

Phillipians 3:12 "...or am already perfect(G5048 eleioo (tel-ei-oh'-o) v.
1. to complete
2. (literally) to accomplish)

not mature but to reach the state of perfection (vs.11 I shall arrive at the rising up of the dead). Two different words.
---willa5568 on 5/16/11


Paul tells us in Corinthians

10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

11For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Do you not all understand the Gospel?

Those who believe ONLY they have been granted salvation MUST also manifest THIS TRUTH as well!

Talk is cheap....
---kathr4453 on 5/16/11




//At conversion - when one accepts Christ//
1Cor 15:1-4 past tense
Eph.2:6 past tense
Phil.3:20 past tense
---michael_e on 5/16/11


Phil 3, Paul comparing GRACE vs LAW. Grace, we walk IN THE SPIRIT. Romans 8 is result of Romans 6. To walk in the SPIRIT of the Life of Christ is to walk in HIS RESURRECTION POWER...NOW TODAY.



Perfect here and elsewhere in Scripture is referring to maturity. James ch 1..we joy in sufferings that we may be perfect and entire lacking nothing.

Salvation is instantanious. Sanctification is our growth and maturity as we GROW UP into the Head which is Christ.

You're not saved by Maturity, you're saved by Faith in Jesus Christ death and resurrection.

And MarkV,..(other closed blog) it's Amos 3:1 -2.

The CHURCH kept secret and revealed after Christ rose from the Dead, is the Body of Christ,not a Nation!
---kathr4453 on 5/16/11


//kathr4453 on 5/15/11//

response,

"that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect,"

Paul says "that I MAY know him and the power of his resurrection...BECOMING like him in his death...that by any means possible I MAY attain..NOT THAT I HAVE ALREADY obtained this..."

he says he is BECOMING (or as the King James Says BEING MADE conformable) like him in his death that he MAY know the power of his resurrection. He had not yet obtained this and I am quite sure none of us have either.
---willa5568 on 5/16/11


OSAS insures step 2 and 3

Hebrews 10.. By which will we are sanctified THROUGH the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Having boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which he has consecreated for us, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh...

HOW??
ANS...
Gal 2:20-21 I am Crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me. I do not make void the GRACE of God, for if righteousness come by the Law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Don't you see jerry, sanctification..not Justificatio is being baptized into HIS DEATH.

Even the legalists bypass this truth!

This is the gate very few find...I mean enter in!
---kathr4453 on 5/15/11


I honestly believe the majority of professing christians do not understand WHY Jesus Christ died, and how vitally important His death is to our redemption. Not only did He take our sin upon His flesh, but WE DIED with Christ in His death. You cannot have a risen eternal life in the risen Christ without first partaking of Christ in His death.

Our life in Christ is RESURRECTION LIFE. Resurrection life is life FROM THE DEAD.

You have no LIFE, or resurection life in you, until you first are identified with Him in death.
Phil 3 clearly state we are CONFORMED to His Death SO THAT we may know the power of His resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/11


I got something to think about.
What are we saved from and what does our salvation bring us?

How about we are saved from Gods wrath and judgment for unbelievers in which they will parish (be no more).

We receive eternal life and will be kings and priests in his kingdom.

salvation is past tense in the sense that it speaks of those who believe will be saved, present tense in that though we do not presently see it we by faith accept the reality of it, and future tense in that our salvation takes place physically.
---willa5568 on 5/14/11


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IMHO, salvation is a three-step process:

1) Justification - The legal act of blotting out all PAST sins at the time of repentance/conversion/new heart.

2) Sanctification - The lifelong religious experience of learning to live a holy life, the fight of good faith/running of the race for the prize/enduring to the end.

3) Glorification - The finishing touch of immortalization at the 2nd coming of Christ in the clouds, and dwelling with Him for eternity.

Salvation is not complete until all three steps are finished.

Predestination makes all 3 steps unnecessary. OSAS makes steps 2 & 3 unnecessary and may even impede sanctification.
---jerry6593 on 5/14/11


A word about this statement.
"We are hidden with God In Christ sealed by the Holy Spirit". This sealing takes place the moment one receives the Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts. When the Holy Spirit takes up residence in a person's heart he never moves from that relationship with the person whom he indwells. And so the seal will never be broken. O.S.A.S.
---mima on 5/14/11


We are SAVED by Grace(Christ's finished work) through Faith. That comes the moment one believes.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/11
Let us examine a few more sriptures:
Matthew 10:22 but he that endureth to THE END shall be saved.
Romans 13:11 for now is our SALVATION NEARER than when we believed. Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, you SHALL BE SAVED be saved from wrath through him.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the LAST TIME.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience WAIT FOR IT.
---francis on 5/14/11


God does not force Himself IN YOU. When we are Born Again, actually the Trinity, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit indwell the believer. We are hidden with God In Christ sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is given to those WHO OBEY, acts 5:23,

TO AS MANY AS receive Christ..to THEM....

Behold I stand at the door and knock, if ANYONE hear my voice and open the door...( who is doing what here...

WHOSOEVER believes....

We are SAVED by Grace(Christ's finished work) through Faith. That comes the moment one believes. Belief and faith are one in the same. Hebrews 10 *the Spirit of GRACE can be rejected, and THAT's the reason God's wrath will come on those who have rejected Christ and His Finished work.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/11


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When one reads Hebrews, of which we know salvation is OF the Jews, rooted in all we are taught through the OT, fulfilled In Christ, the whole Idea of letting go of the Old system and placing your faith in Christ who fulfilled the Law, in NO WAY teaches God picks and chooses a select group. If in Hebrews 10, Jews with whom the Gospel WAS FIRST PREACHED, is warned not to cling to the Old, that is now fulfilled In Christ, THIS SAME Gospel is preached to Gentiles. Faith in Christ ALONE. Faith in HIS finished work...not bulls and goats. THIS is what we place our faith in...HIS BLOOD.

Any other Gospel is ACCURSED. The word Elect etc is not even mentioned in Galatians...the Greatest book on what GRACE IS...and not to fall from GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/11


Alan, I did not say:
Mark You say "God cannot force Himself in you"
Someone else said that, another free willer.
God doesn't force Himself in you, what He does is makes you willing to come to Christ,(John 5:40) Jesus said, "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life"
He also said you have to have faith in Him so that you can have eternal life. Unbeliever don't have faith. Jesus said:
"Most assurely, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life" A person has to hear and believe before he acknowledges the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/11


To MarkV....

Ephesians 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. .

No Gentile was elect to salvation before Christ died and rose again.

Romans 11...you were also GRAFTED IN!!!


When were you grafted in MarkV?
---kathr4453 on 5/14/11


Mark,

Romans 9:32 "Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works."
Romans 9:16 "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."
God did not chose based on works (before they did good or bad)



Romans 11:6"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works"

Romans 11:7"Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened"

Why were they hardened?

Romans 11:20 "They were broken off because of their unbelief"

So the question is will you accept the truth?

By the way what I am taught does not determine what I believe.
---willa5568 on 5/14/11


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You're taking that verse and applying it to salvation when it was meant to be used to service.

The meaning of the passage isnt the problem, its who you direct it towards that is wrong.
---CraigA on 5/14/11


Haha well that is most amusing. ty
---Jasheradan on 5/14/11


Willa, you refuse the truth I printed for you, and with your opinon which does not count. You said,
"Mark,

we have been taught free-will all of our lives? Well the same can go for you about predestination"


No Willa, as you I too was taught from the beginning free will. I came from a Catholic background who believe in works for salvation, went to a Pentacostal church which believed in free will. Not in God's grace. To this day many denominations have gone back to their roots, the RCC doctrine of works for salvation.
Before the children were born. And listen to this, "nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand" Can you change that meaning?
---Mark_V. on 5/14/11


Jasheradan,

It means that Mark V doesn't believe your name.

He thinks you are Kathr4453

(I think)
---James_L on 5/13/11


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"Jesheradan, you sound more like Kathr everyday. And it seems as if I am answering her when I answer you. As if the two of you are one."
---Mark_V. on 4/18/11

It was said on the "When Will Christ Return" now closed blog.
Do a Google search for:
When Will Christ Return,christianet,Jasheradan
---Nana on 5/13/11


Mark You say "God cannot force Himself in you"

That can't be true. You are putting a limit on God. God CAN do anything, whatever He wants, for He is Omnipotent. Whether or not He does is the issue.

But your statement appears to support freewill!!

God forcing Himself in you seems to be very much like your interpretation of predestination ... God electing a person for salvation without that person having a say in the matter.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/13/11


Would one of you kind people here assist me. What does it mean when someone repeatedly adds a "/K" after your name? Is it some kind of insult?
---Jasheradan on 5/13/11


Mark,

we have been taught free-will all of our lives? Well the same can go for you about predestination. I see were you come from in what you say. But the more I study, which this pushes me to do, the more I stand on what I have presented. Agreed, no one can pick apart passages, including you, to justify their understanding of scripture.

Here is a question. The scripture says Christ was slain from the foundations of the world. Was he literally slain at that time? Of coarse not. But could it mean that God had determined because of Adams sin He would reconcile men back to Him through a sacrifice? absolutely! If God elects who will be saved then they have no choice but to believe because thats what they were chosen to do.
---willa5568 on 5/13/11


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Letter to the Marquis Paet, . "Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains, but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels [Anabaptists and others], who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard"(Calvin). This is the man who was the mastermind of the teaching of predestination. It seems, I suppose, God told him whom He had predestined. Here is one of his glorious Christian deeds. "A book printer who in his cups [columns] had railed at Calvin, was sentenced to have his tongue perforated with a red-hot iron before being expelled from the city"(.Minutes Book of the Geneva City Council, 1541-59)
---willa5568 on 5/13/11


Armininus: Let those who reject the [teaching that Christ paid the price for the sins of all men] consider how they can answer the following scriptures, which declare that Christ died for all men..." He also said people have genuine free will and grace is resistible.
He tested each of his points to make sure none nullified the doctrine of salvation by faith.

After his death, Arminius' views were condemned by the Calvinist majority at the Synod of Dort. But in 1795 the Dutch recognized them as a legitimate interpretation of scripture. Many notable Protestants have held Arminian views, including the Wesleys. Protestant groups are often divided into Arminians and Calvinists.
---Samuel on 5/13/11


Mark,

my point was exactly that. Scripture does not contradict itself. It is the way we interpret it that causes contradictions.Are you saying God, who is love, only desires to love those He has chosen, while the others are prepared to be vessels of destruction because of their sin? Why would Jesus have compassion on people who were predestined for destruction (Matthew 9:46, 14:14,15:32,Mark 10:17-22,Luke chapter 10,)? Did he feel sorry for what would happen to them because they were not chosen? You cannot have whosoever believes or rejoicing if those who will believe are already chosen!
---willa5568 on 5/13/11


Jesheradan/K, It is not an ego problem, it concerns the souls of all 40 of you. You have been brought up believing in free will not found in Scripture, and rejecting what is found in Scripture, as Mima said, God cannot force Himself in you. Limiting the power of God and exhalting man.
"And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, Not of works (free will) but of Him who calls 'the older shall serve the younger' as it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Isau I have hated"
---Mark_V. on 5/13/11


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"He chose only the "elect" out of the world (John 17:6) and passed over the rest, leaving them to the Consequences of their sin, unbelief, and rejection of Chris"

And this is the God who made them and predestined them to continue to sin, not to believe, and to reject Christ.

OK ... He could behave like that, has every right to do so (except there is no one higher to give God rights) ... but let's not call it "just punishment for disobedience"
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/13/11


I love how 40 other believers in Christ can agree on a single context of one verse but theres always ONE person who thinks everyone else is wrong.

Sounds like an ego problem. Very likely the cause of their delusion in the first place.
---Jasheradan on 5/13/11


willa5568,

Paul said,
1Tim.1:13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious:
but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."
1Tim.1:15-16 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

Nothing about election, All about mercy!
---Nana on 5/13/11


willa5568,

That whole entry by Mark_V. on 5/12/11 are not his words starting from "The Greek word for "desire" to the end at "(Rom. 18:32).
Who said all that was John MacArthur, Jr. in a tirade describing a mumbo-jumbo of a "bipolar god".
Mark V. likes all that bipolar stuff.

Jesus said, Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you,"
Perhaps the early disciples prayed for Saul...?
---Nana on 5/13/11


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Exactly willa
---Jasheradan on 5/13/11


God does hate sin, but not the sinner. If when Adam fell, all men including Adam received cancer and died as a result, then you could say God hates cancer. God hates the cancer so much He GAVE His only begotten son, Cancer free, who took all our cancer upon Him, and died in our place.

Now those who receive His Son, Jesus Christ can become cancer free. The PERFECT HEALTH of Jesus Christ is imputed and God sees you as having no cancer at all.

It's God's desire that all men will come to God through Jesus Christ to find not only healing from this cancer, but eternl life as a result, where the cancer has no more power over him.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/11


Willa, you want them to contradict but they don't, Scripture does not contradict.
The first one you gave only says that those who believe are saved and those that don't will not be saved. The second one, 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking to the believers, the brethren he is speaking to,"The "Us" the "Elect who have not come to Christ yet" that not a one will be lost. Verse 3:5 is speaking of those in (v.3) "that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lust and saying where is the promise of His Coming"
You have to read the context Willa, you are picking passages and they don't contradict the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/13/11


Mark,

there are also many more that contradict the verses you use. "God so loved the WORLD He gave His only begotten son, that WHOEVER believes in him shall not parish...".
Also in 2Peter 3:9 you said it was speaking of those who are "the elect". If that is so then the elect can also not repent. It also can be translated as "patient toward us not willing that any should parish". Also read verses 3-5. Notice in verse 5, "for this they WILLFULLY forget...". Those chosen from the foundation of the world are those who believe God not God choosing who would believe. An example is Israel. God did chose them, but to be a holy people unto Him, yet they (the elect) rejected Him.
---willa5568 on 5/12/11


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Mark,

on your comment about desire and eternal purpose. The word desire refers to intentions or purpose. So it does not seem to fit God's eternal purpose that the vessels prepared for destruction were not His intention or purpose. "it is not Gods intention/purpose that any man should parish" but rather that through His long suffering, all will come (go forward/advance) to repentance.
---willa5568 on 5/12/11


1 Peter 2:3 "Desires all men to be saved" The Greek word for "desire" is not that which normally expresses God's will of decree (His eternal purpose). But God's will of desire. He does not make people sin, so He has a hatred for sin. He hates sin with all His being (Pss. 5:4, 45:7) thus, He hates it's consequences in hell. Yet God for His own glory, and to mainfest that glory in wrath, chose to endure "vessels" prepared for destruction for the supreme fulfillment of His will (Rom. 9:22). In His eternal purpose, He chose only the "elect" out of the world (John 17:6) and passed over the rest, leaving them to the Consequences of their sin, unbelief, and rejection of Christ (Rom. 18:32).
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11


TIME OF SALVATION:
Matthew 10:22 but he that endureth to THE END shall be saved.
Romans 13:11 for now is our SALVATION NEARER than when we believed. Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, you SHALL BE SAVED be saved from wrath through him.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the LAST TIME.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience WAIT FOR IT.

METHOD OF SALVATION:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
---francis on 5/12/11


God did not chose who would be saved but rather how to be saved.---willa5568 on 5/11/11
AMEN well spoken. That is also what predestination means. God would have ALL MEN to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Also here is yet another text showing salvation is at the last time:

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
---FRANCIS on 5/12/11


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In answer to this comments,

Also God did not chose who would be saved but rather how to be saved"

Those words contradict the Word of God.
1. Eph. 1:4, "Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him"
2. 2 Tim. 1:9, "Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but "according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began"
3. Matt. 11:27, "...no one knows the Father except the Son "and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him"
4. Psalm 65:4
5. Psalm 106:5
Many more etc.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/11


salvation is ultimately at the second coming of Jesus. Also God did not chose who would be saved but rather how to be saved. Meaning salvation was by faith in a sacrifice. Those who accept this and continue in faith are the chosen. God did not intend for man to sin considering all He made was "VERY GOOD". Yet He did allow man to make a decision. And considering His wisdom, He was prepared to save man(that was created in His own image and given dominion over Gods creation) if he did chose to disobey. As Joshua said "chose you this day whom you will serve".
---willa5568 on 5/11/11


---Josef on 5/10/11
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord,
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

OK Both these text places salvation in the furture.

But because God's promises are yeah and amen, we CLAIM THE PROMISE BY FAITH

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
---francis on 5/11/11


ty Michael.

Its amazing how many people miss the fact belief is somethings required OF us by God.
---Jasheradan on 5/11/11


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Acts 16:30..What must "I" do.
Acts 16:31.."believe".. Believe What?
my gospel Rom.16:25
which is 1Cor 15.1-4
---michael_e on 5/11/11


Josef, you are correct. Francis is arguring for one passage only and making that passage contradict so many others passages for the purpose of showing you wrote a very bad post. He could have said, there is a future wrath to come and point to those passages, or he could have said, we were saved in the past, since we were chosen from the foundation of the world. But he stayed with those to show you were wrong. Salvation is mention in many tenses. Past, present and future, in Scripture, I believe another brother mentioned this a while back.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/11


a boy (not paying attention to his father's warnings) falls into a narrow opening to a deep well. When he realizes that there is no hope of saving himself, he calls out. In the meantime while searching for her son, his mother hears a faint voice calling. When she finds her boy, she realizes there is no hope, so she calls 911. When the FD responds, they realize the opening is narrow, and the bot needs instruction to be delivered. Any false move, and the boy will die. After many hours of tenuous delivery, the boy is pulled to safety.

Is the boy saved when he cries out? when he is being delivered? or when he is finally pulled to safety?

the answer to the first two are maybe. the answer to the third question is definitely.
---aka on 5/10/11


At conversion is when a person get's saved "spiritually" or born again. At that time they are baptized/placed into the body of Christ and sealed unto the day of redemption.(Ephesians 4:30,1Corinthians 12:13)

Soulish(mind, will, emotions, etc) are being saved/renewed daily as we study the word and conform to His image.(Romans 12:2,1Peter 1:9,22)

We get a new body in the rapture.(1Corinthians 15:52-53)
---Rickey on 5/10/11


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Francis I very well could be mistaken, to say I know all is to acknowledge that I know nothing at all as I should.
"The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which 'are saved' it is the power of God." Although some version translates are saved as are being saved they contradict themselves when translating Eph 2:5 which uses the same two words. For "Even when we were dead in sins, [Father] hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace you 'are saved') The NKJV,NLT,NIV,NASB,RSV,ASV, expresses the last line of that verse as follows (by grace you have been saved) Salvation is expressed Biblically in the Past present and future tense based on what aspect of salvation one is referring to.
---Josef on 5/10/11


"Agree Joseph. I started/tried to say similiarly, but you did a much better job then I did.---Christina on 5/8/11
Christina, what you wrote, inspired what I wrote:o) I was simply reiterating your post, and expounding upon what Bill wrote.
---joseph on 5/10/11


---joseph on 5/8/11
Very bad post

METHOC OF SALVATION:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope:

TIME OF SALVATION:
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience WAIT for [it].
Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation NEAREE than when we believed.

Matthew 10:22 but he that endureth TO THE END shall be saved.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we SHALL BE SAVED from wrath through him.
---francis on 5/8/11


Joseph, I too agree with you and a few others. "Desires all men to be saved" As we all know God hates sin and it consequences-eternal wickedness in hell. God does not want people to remain wicked forever in eternal remorse, yet God, for His own glory and to manifest that glory in wrath, chose to endure "vessels' prepared for destruction for the supreme fulfillment of His will" (Romans 9:22). In his eternal purpose, He chose only the elect out of the world (John 17:6) and passed over the rest, leaving them to the consequences of their sin, unbelief, and rejection of Christ" (Rom. 1:18-32). Ultimately God's choices are determined by His sovereign, eternal purpose, not His desires, (2 Peter 3:9).
---Mark_V. on 5/8/11


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no MAN on earth is EVER guaranteed a free pass in this life to be ruler in Gods Kingdom on Earth when Christ returns

MANY are called FEW are chosen

nice simple multiple choice answer like false counterfeit christiandom teaches?

True believers are simply followers of Christ - following ALL His examples and LEARNING to overcome falling often and relearning along the way

sadly as many teach (LIKE the duped 5/21/11 believers) it is an instantaneous process ...magically waving a wand or simply clicking your heals 3 times and proclaiming a "christ" on one's lips and reducing Biblical Christ and His Work to nothing

overcoming is a lifetime process and following Christs examples is the CROSS Luke 14:27
---Rhonda on 5/8/11


Agree Joseph. I started/tried to say similiarly, but you did a much better job then I did.
---Christina on 5/8/11


We are saved from the moment the Father begins His work within us through the time of it's completion. Jesus told the woman whose sins He forgave "Thy faith 'hath saved' thee, (past tense)". "We 'are saved' by hope (present tense) and whoever calls on the name of the LORD 'shall be saved' future tense."
Salvation literally means 'rescue', (Jesus' sacrifice saved us from our sin) 'Health' (by His stripes) 'safety', (He is our strong tower) 'protection', (His armor protects us) and 'deliverance', ( we will be deliver from His wrath) The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, we where chosen in Him at that time, and will be redeemed when he returns. Therefore none of the above are exclusive, but rather inclusive.
---joseph on 5/8/11


(1) Like how a person can first do something in one's heart before doing it in real life, we were saved, before creation, when God in His heart determined that He would save us.
(2) We were saved by Jesus when He died on the cross for us.
(3) We were saved when we were "baptized into His death" (Romans 6:3).
(4) And we will be saved by being resurrected.
---Bill_willa6989 on 5/7/11


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"..so that we are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, "who will sustain you to the end" guiltess in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. ---Mark_V. on 5/7/11

Using this text with others like this: Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

We now that we will be saved IN THE END< our salvation is NEARER
---francis on 5/7/11


d. none of the above.

I agree with cliff...

there will be many that endure to the end, but there will be few that endure in Jesus Christ, who speaks these words:

Mar 13:13 And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
---aka on 5/7/11


"One example is worth ten thousand words."

In (1 Peter 3:20), one of the Lords teachers gives us the example of Noah, as one who was saved.
Was Noah saved when he built the ark, when he got into the Ark, or when Noah got off the Ark?

Noah carefully followed Gods instructions on how the Ark was to be built.
Our Arks are built in much the same way, by carefully following the instruction of Jesus Christ, as to how we are to build a relationship with God.(John 14:21)

Those who follow these instructions, as Noah followed Gods instruction on the building of the Ark, will survive the storm, and only after the storm, will we know if we are saved.(Matthew 7:24-27)
---David on 5/7/11


The lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward.
Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more, and they likewise received every man a penny.

But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?
Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
---TheSeg on 5/7/11


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Booger,

Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
..."
There it is stated that all men will be subdivided into two groups based on what they did in their life. There is no such criteria as "prior the start of the creation ".
FYI, number 1 is a joke:
1 Timothy 2:3-4: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
---Nana on 5/7/11


Francis, what greater hope could we have then Jesus Christ? That is what it's all about, faith in Christ.

"..so that we are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, "who will sustain you to the end" guiltess in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord"

Not on our merits but His strength and power. That is why He provides us with the spiritual gifts we need. Only those who are called, who were elected to be call from the foundation of the world.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/11


If God did not select you prior the start of the creation you are just reprobate.
---Blogger9211 on 5/6/11


Matthew 10:22 he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

I will say on the last day, we will be saved from his wrath which is the lake of fire. But because all his promises are YEAH and AMEN we claim salvation now BY FAITH

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,
---Francis on 5/6/11


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There's the assunption that the 3 mentioned are mutually exclusive, which in a linear time frame, would be so. God, however, being infinite, is not bound by time as we are. I think in our life time, there is a momnet of conversion, or a moment in which we are saved, but we are also working out our salvation, the sanctification process that is complete in the day of Christ Jesus our Lord. He that began a good work in us WILL bring it to completion in the day of Christ Jesus our Lord., So there is a moment when He began the work in us, but also a moment when it will be complete.
---Christina on 5/6/11


According to Mima,right after saying the sinner's prayer.Huh?
Personally I believe it's "He that endures to the end" Matt.24.13.!
---1st_cliff on 5/6/11


The first steps are simple. Understand this is a relationship between you and Jesus Christ. Mom,dad, granny, no one can do this for you. Sincerely believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Confess your sins to God then ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you. There is much more you do after this point but this is the beginning. Read Romans ch 10,St John ch 3 and other chapters and scriptures in the bible. God is a forgiving and merciful God. If you ask, you shall receive but you must ask and move toward God, on your own.
If you wait until the last day, it will be too late. During your lifetime is the time for you to seek Jesus(be saved) while you are in your right mind and are conscious of what is going on.
---Robyn on 5/6/11


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