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Tithe Your Money Or Else

I am struggling with tithing in my Church. I'm a Minister and also a Ministry Leader of the Church Building. I have always paid my tithes in secret and recently my Pastor confronted me about having a zero by name of giving. Fill out an envelope if I want to continue in my current capacity.

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 ---Derek_W on 5/7/11
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Observation is not personal attack. Your being offended shows you do not have God's Laws in your mind and in your heart Heb 8:10. We are to rightly divide God's Word according to His goals, not man's goals, which is one reason He admonished men to lean not to their own understanding. 1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men . . .

Re: 2Cor 9 Paul is not speaking to tithes, but to the care of the needy.

Jesus is still receiving tithes in the NT Heb 7:8. He seems to think they are still required. My tithe is surely not the only tithe He worships with. But, he won't have yours to worship the father with. You won't be able to deny that His servant told you.
---aservant on 6/26/15


Part 3
/Their increase was crop and cattle, yours is likely money: profits, dividends, etc.\
-So all in Israel had crops and cattle? This is a poor view of life back then. Even in Joseph's day, they bought and sold with money. This is just another attempt at justification that fails miserably.
Tithing has always been about crops, cattle, and compulsion.
Freewill offering, on the other hand, is Spirit driven and is never compulsory (2Co 9:7).
---micha9344 on 6/26/15


Abraham gave a 10% kickback on military spoils to Melchizedek. The first tithe concerned only Jews, in Israel, and was of a few types of animals, and some crops, The second Tithe was for the poor, And the third was a party fund. Tithing was prohibited both in the early Church, and the early protestant movement. It is law / not grace! However, being charitable is consistent with having a new nature. Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Romans 12:8, 2Corinthians 8:8, 9:5-7, Galatians 2:10, 1Timothy 5:16-18, 1Peter 4:9, 1John 3:17.
---Glenn on 6/26/15


Part 1
/Tithing was started before the Law.\-aservant on 6/25/15
-Wrong.
Abraham's gift and the Levite command are not even similar, only that it was 10%.
Started implies continuation, which is not recorded.
Levitical tithe was a command, compulsory, necessary.
Yet we see in 2Co 9:7, not "under compulsion"(NASB) and "of necessity"(KJV).
This shows that all of our giving be done freely(freewill offering) and has nothing to do with the Levitical tithing of crops and cattle.
/The tithe is forever Num 18:8.\
-We've been over Num 18. The tithe was, and is, crops and cattle.
---micha9344 on 6/26/15


Part 2
/The inheritance of church workers (modern Levites) continues.\
-What, again, have you inherited that church workers were denied? They are not modern Levites.
/Even Heb 7:8 (the NT) shows Jesus...\
-No, Heb 7:1-10 compares Levi with Mel.
/You would not be resisiting Truth\-aservant on 6/25/15
-This is the 2nd time you spoke without knowledge. I ignored it the 1st time.
Personal attacks are a feeble attempt of convincing arguments.
Pro 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
-Even Proverbs, in context, references crops as the increase.
---micha9344 on 6/26/15




//Tithing was started before the Law.//
No record of Isaac and Jacob tithing.
It was then required under Law.
You can put as much as you want in a collection plate, but it is not required, same as circumcision and water baptism.
---michael_e on 6/26/15


---michael_e

Tithing was started before the Law. That is why it exists after the Law is no longer used to offer blood sacrifices. BTW, a change in the Law does not mean the Law has been abandoned.
---aservant on 6/25/15


Heb 7:8 is referring to Levites (dead men) and Mel(lives on).
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


The tithe is forever Num 18:8. It will never be abrogated. The inheritance of church workers (modern Levites) continues. Even Heb 7:8 (the NT) shows Jesus receiving tithes to worship the Father as the High Priest. You would not be resisiting Truth if you had the anointing. The anointing teaches 1Jn 2:27.
---aservant on 6/25/15


aservant, One should be more afraid and shamed by the mishandling of God's Word.
Let's look at Heb 7 then:
First, Heb 7:8 is referring to Levites (dead men) and Mel(lives on).
Later on we see the correlation to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 7:12,13, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar....And it is yet far more evident...there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Notice-change of the law-far evident-carnal commandment.
Tithing=Storehouse=Food
Not Tithing=Treasury=Coin
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


Tithing was required under Mosaic law. Under grace, generosity is encouraged, but percentage is never specified. Plus tithing under the Mosaic law went to the Levites, Israel's priests. We are not under the law of Moses and we don't have priests.
Tithing is touchy with many preachers who won't rely on God to provide as He sees fit through the generosity of their congregations. Most do not rightly divide the Word, and may honestly believe we stillkeep certain parts of the Mosaic law. Tithing is often dragged forward to this present grace age, even by preachers who understand dispensations and know better.
Our Apostle never uses the word "tithe" in all of his letters to the Gentiles (Romans-Philemon).
---michael_e on 6/25/15




The tithe was crops + cattle.
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


I doubt God accepts your rationale, since He is a Giver. His order: tithe on your increase. Their increase was crop and cattle, yours is likely money: profits, dividends, etc.

I tithe and offer on my increase, which is money.

Pro 3:9 Honor Jehovah with your substance, and with the firstfruits of all your increase,

I am certain God thinks money is a substance of value, and that He caused your substance to increase.

BTW, silver, gold, and coin are usually some of the spoil taken when a city is conquered. If so, in this case, Abraham tithed on it.
---aservant on 6/25/15


/To withhold a tithe from the church workers is theft of their inheritance.\
-What have you, aservant, inherited from God of which your pastor was denied the inheritance? -money? land to grow crops and cattle so that they may be fed??
We have already discussed Mal 3:10 says "fill the storehouse" with food.
/Their inheritance was set by God, and is not a freewill offering.\-aservant on 6/25/15
-Precisely.
/Tithing is 10% we owe GOD.\
-Care to elaborate that with scripture?
/The reason many do not want it to be money is so that do not have to give that much.\
This is judging falsely.
/...offerings...in cash.\-Samuelbb7 on 6/25/15
Offerings are in cash(Mar 12:42)
The tithe was crops + cattle.
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


Heb 7:8 And here men who die receive tithes, but there he (Jesus, High Priest) receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

BTW, ---micha9344when the Father looks back over His books, He is going to notice that you provided Jesus no tithes with which to worship our Father with. Jesus does not worship our Father with offerings.

It is one thing refuse to pay tithes, it is quite another to refuse to worship the Father with your increase. If you do not worship Him here on earth (Little League) as He instructs, will He give you the opportunity to worship Him in Heaven (the Pros)?
---aservant on 6/25/15


Tithing was never about money, it was about feeding those that did not have, (Not true) i.e. Levites, poor, widows, orphans...
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


Num 18:21 . . . I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance . . .
Num 18:23 . . . it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance (of land).

To withhold a tithe from the church workers is theft of their inheritance (Levites were not given land to inherit, as were other tribes). See Mal 3:8-10
Their inheritance was set by God, and is not a freewill offering.
---aservant on 6/25/15


Tithing is 10% we owe GOD. Freewill offering are any amount above that we choose to give to GOD.

The reason many do not want it to be money is so that do not have to give that much.

According to my research the average person donates about 2.3 % of their income.

So those here who refuse to recognize that offerings today would be in cash. Are doing quite well by generally keeping their money in their pockets or spending it on themselves.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/25/15


And now the rest of the story(in context):
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household
aservant, when is the last time your "tithe" came from converting the 10% of your crops and cattle set aside for God to money, and then, when arriving, turning it back into something that can be eaten.
Your reference is invalid.
Tithing was never about money, it was about feeding those that did not have, i.e. Levites, poor, widows, orphans,...
Ours is the freewill offering not restricted to just 10%.
---micha9344 on 6/25/15


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Tithing is not about money.
---micha9344 on 6/24/15


Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

God commands the person to convert his crops/animals and offer the money as a tithe and an offering.

Still think we have no duty to tithe our increase because it is money?
---aservant on 6/24/15


"It seems that people do not want to return cash to the Lord. But then how many here give of all the things in their house?"

In a tithing household those 'things' in the house would have been bought with the 90% retained. God does not instruct us to tithe on the 'things' we bought with the 90%
---Rita_H on 6/25/15


-What did Abraham give Mel?
Gen 14:11 Then they took all the goods...and all their food ...
Gen 14:16 He brought back all the goods...
Gen 14:20 ...tenth of all.
Mat 23:23
-crops
---micha9344 on 6/24/15


Should we only tithe on the plants, animals, and food obtained by being victorious in war. Is this the only tithe God intended?

1Cor 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth, but God that giveth the increase.

Here, crops are an analogy. The subject of the conversation is about new converts being "carnal" (i.e., of the flesh) and not Spiritual. So if God gave you an increase of converts, would you offer people as a tithe?
---aservant on 6/24/15


/My increase is in money.\
-Your money is also of Caesar(gov't). Whereas crops and cattle are from God's hand.
/merchants did not have to pay tithe or give to the Temple.\
-not tithes but offerings.
/So rich people were exempt from supporting GOD.\
-False conclusion.
/Today some want to make themselves exempt from helping others.\
-Projecting false conclusions to judge others.
Mal 3:8
In context: NASB
Mal 3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house...
Hebrews 7:9
-What did Abraham give Mel?
Gen 14:11 Then they took all the goods...and all their food supply...
Gen 14:16 He brought back all the goods...
Gen 14:20 ...tenth of all.
Mat 23:23
-crops
---micha9344 on 6/24/15


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Rome accepted cash. They wanted cash.

NASB Matthew 22:19
Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax. And they brought Him a denarius.

True Zaccheus gave away half his possessions. He also promised to pay back four times any amount that he supposedly stole.

We have gotten away from the main point here. It seems that people do not want to return cash to the Lord. But then how many here give of all the things in their house?

Ask yourself how much money do you spend on your wants and how much do you give to help others and spread the Gospel?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/24/15


Apparently merchants did not have to pay tithe or give to the Temple. So rich people were exempt from supporting GOD. Today some want to make themselves exempt from helping others.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/23/15


Many merchants were paid with animals and crops, until they were living where coin could be used.

Zacchaeus paid a tithe and a penalty using goods, that were accepted by Jesus - Lk 19.
---aservant on 6/23/15


I work two jobs for a living. My increase is in money.

Apparently merchants did not have to pay tithe or give to the Temple. So rich people were exempt from supporting GOD. Today some want to make themselves exempt from helping others.

Malachi 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Hebrews 7:9
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Mat 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/23/15


/They were farmers and grew crops.\-precisely. Merchants did not tithe, just as females were not circumcised, yet still part of Israel.
/They sold their crops for money and turned in the money. Since they could not transport the crops.\-Samuelbb7 on 6/22/15
True-read Lev 27- only the crops plus 5%.-Still not wages earned.
Mark 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance, but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
-A perfect example of freewill offering, some give a little, some give all.
-How this is used as a tithing example is beyond me.
So now the tithe is up to 15% and still nothing about wages.
Tithing is not about money.
---micha9344 on 6/23/15


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'Many people prefer free will offerings so they can buy all the stuff they want and keep more for themselves.'

Unless church members discuss with each other what they give (I hope that they don't) then it is impossible to know this. Some people's free-will offerings could be more than a strict tithe might be. We just don't know and nor should we.
---Rita_H on 6/23/15


What exactly is the "tithe of thine increase"?
Context shows it to be crops and cattle.
Deu 14:22-23 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks, that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
It was never about money.
It was about feeding the Levites, widows, orphans, and poor. They had no land to grow food, no inheritance.
That is why the temple had a storehouse. It wasn't for treasure. It was for sustenance.
---micha9344 on 6/23/15


Dt 14:28 . . . thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year . . .

Dt 26:12 . . . tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year . . .

Prov 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:


Tithe = 1/10 of your increase: e.g., wages, salary, gifts, inheritance, dividends, profits, prizes, money/treasure found, tax refunds, etc.
---aservant on 6/22/15


Micha those people didn't make money. They were farmers and grew crops.

In the time of Jesus they sold their crops for money and turned in the money. Since they could not transport the crops.

So many forget that we have a whole Bible and want to cut off 75% of the Bible. But as you read the New Testament you find they went for proof to the Old Testament to show they were teaching correctly.

Many people prefer free will offerings so they can buy all the stuff they want and keep more for themselves.

Jesus Christ gave all but many cannot put 10% of their income. Jesus commended

Mark 12:44
For all they did cast in of their abundance, but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/22/15


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/You cannot apply what was given to the Levites to the church. We are all Kings and Priests!\-willa5568 on 5/10/11
I concur. I have yet to see a tenth of the congregation's cattle and crops come into the storehouse of the temple(church?) as required by the Law of Moses.
The church (building) is more like the synagogues, not the temple.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land...
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd...
You will never see a reference to tithing being from monetary sources (payment for services rendered),but from the increases of what God has created.
1Co 9:13 speaks of the altar (animals) and the holy things (show bread),crops and cattle, not money.
Our offering is freewill as the Spirit directs.
---micha9344 on 6/22/15


I began to strictly tithe some time ago when I felt that God was telling me to do that. It is not done in accordance to any old testament rules or for any reason other than that I felt that was what God wanted me to do. It goes in the same collection plate as most other people's numbered envelopes go and pays the pastor's salary and church maintenance costs. I think that there are 4 or 5 of us who do not have the envelopes now but whether others actually tithe is none of my business.

I am peace with what I am doing but I really wish that all had refused the envelopes when they were introduced. No-one to my knowledge is a tax payer in our church. We are all retired. In U.K. charities get the tax when there is some - not the giver.
---Rita_H on 6/22/15


Giving your tithe in secret is supposed to happen. Many however let the IRS know about it.

Now should we pay a tenth of our income to support Ministers? Minsters act as did the Levites in the Old Testament. They give up regular jobs to work for the Lord full time. They are supposed to be supported by the Church. Paul justified this from the Old Testament which so many seem to demean doing here.

1Corithians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

I would like to point out that on average people spend more money on Starbucks then giving to church. What does that say?

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/22/15


The most popular tithe today is the tithe that went to the Levitical priesthood (Num 18:21). There is no Levitical priesthood today.
Preachers and teachers in the body of Christ church are not priests. Christ is the only mediator (1 Tim 2:5).
We do not inherit Israels land
The tithe given to the Levites was because they had no land inheritance (Numbers 18:21).
The church does not observe Israel's required feast day celebrations
It was three times a year in Deut 16:16. At certain feast days is where the tithes would be offered. One tithe even allowed you to stay home and spend it on what you desired (Deut 14:26).
---michael_e on 6/22/15


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Leave, His is a Jerk.
Jesus said you must take care of you FAMILY first before giving to the Church.
Remember to honor your mother and father. 4th Commandment.

He is only worried about his own salary, not your well being or your family's being.
Beside, why are there numbers by peoples names?

What happen to "NOT LETTING YOUR LEFT HAND KNOW WHAT'S IN YOUR RIGHT HAND"????

That Church is very fishy. Run, don't walk away.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/21/15


Gordon I think Derek was saying that he tithes secretly but that the pastor sees a zero against his name because of him being anonymous. All others must have envelopes with a number on as identification. Maybe he drops cash in a box instead. No-one should be approached this way because it is no-one's business who gives or what they give. God already knows and He is the only one who needs to know. He should not be being told HOW to give. I know of one person who ceased giving altogether after a similar encounter.

Also, some people use the word 'tithe' to mean 'offering'. The word does not mean a tenth to some people. If people give a tenth and that is known then church officers would know the earnings of members and that is wrong.
---Rita_H on 6/21/15


I hope Derek_W escaped the gloom, Psalm 107:10-11, John 1:5.
Greed: Acts 20:25-35, 1Corinthians 5:9-13, 6:8-11, Galatians 5:15-26, Ephesians 5:1-16, 1Timothy 3:1-16, Titus 1:5-16, Hebrews 12:14-17, 13:5, 1Peter 5:1-3, 2Peter 2:1-22.
---Glenn on 6/21/15


from Leviticus to Luke, tithing was recorded on any increase you might get from your fields of corn, wine, ..really the increase of everything you have from your fields and today, its monetary increase. Tithing helps pay for pastor or Gods work. Offering pay for bills etc.
---robert on 6/20/15


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Derek W., So, you did let your Pastor know that you're tithing, but, it's just that you're doing so "in secret"?

As long as you're tithing to your Church (if you're truly being fed there, etc., etc.) then, it does sound strange what your Pastor is requesting.

But, then again, if he already knows you're tithing, why does it have to be secretive with you that you don't want to make any kind of indication on the envelope?
---Gordon on 3/13/15


\\ There is no Levitical priesthood today.\\

Not true.

All Jews know who the Cohenim (Levitical priests) are. They still have certain ritual functions, such as blessing the people at the end of synagogue services and the redemption of the first-born son (which has a technical meaning most people here can't follow).

Two modern Cohenimi are Gen. Wesley Clark and the late Leonard Nimoy. The Live Long and Prosper gesture is how the Cohen holds his hands when blessing.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/15


The popular tithe today is the tithe that went to the Levitical priesthood (Num 18:21). There is no Levitical priesthood today.
Preachers and teachers in the body of Christ church are not priests. Christ is the only mediator (1 Tim 2:5).

Deut 14:28 is one example of the tithe on the increase every 3 years that was above the regular Levitical tithe.
---michael_e on 3/11/15

Michael...this was very meaty, interesting. Never looked/researched this like you have here. In other words thanks for laying this work out.

Jas_1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
---Trav on 3/13/15


Tithing was part of the law. We are no longer under it. (Rom 6:14)
The old and new covenants made with Israel and Judah were never intended for Gentiles (Heb 8:8).
The popular tithe today is the tithe that went to the Levitical priesthood (Num 18:21). There is no Levitical priesthood today.
Preachers and teachers in the body of Christ church are not priests. Christ is the only mediator (1 Tim 2:5).
At certain feast days is where the tithes would be offered. One tithe even allowed you to stay home and spend it on what you desired (Deut 14:26).
Law tithing requirements were greater than 10 percent
Deut 14:28 is one example of the tithe on the increase every 3 years that was above the regular Levitical tithe.
---michael_e on 3/11/15


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The best thing to do, is remove the middle man's demands. Keep things between you and God, and he will restore the joy.
The church and the ministry get confused and try to do the work of the Holy Spirit.
---penpal on 3/8/15

Good synopsis, penpal.
Remove the obstacles in the middle. Men. Men's doctrines. Men merchandising GOD.

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
---Trav on 3/9/15


My church states the followng:
A refusal to follow the practice of sending 10% to world church and using the money to keep the local church doors open is grounds for removal from leadership.
Basically, membership requires a 12-20% church tax to uphold a local ministry volunteer position and have a local church in which to participate.
I never realized this until I ran out of money. The best thing to do, is remove the middle man's demands. Keep things between you and God, and he will restore the joy.
The church and the ministry get confused and try to do the work of the Holy Spirit. It usually comes off as its my way of the highway, which turns off everyone from 2-200.
---penpal on 3/8/15


Your tithing is a relationship between you and God. No man need know if, when, or how much yuo tithe except you and God
---francis on 8/9/11


To Scott1,

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

No Christian Church taught anyone to tithe on their income before around 1870.

Not all denominations teach tithing today. In fact, not all Baptist pastors teach tithing today.
---Gary on 8/9/11


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So for the people who are against tithing, How do you pay pastor's salary, church building, equipment, etc. Where does that money come from?

For the people who answer I do not go to church? Why are you breaking that command.
---Scott1 on 8/9/11


You are in the wrong Church. God exalts, not men. And a minister of the Gospel shouldn't give to the church (bldg) anyway. Show me where Paul did or any of the rest of the Apostles. Tithing for NT believers is unScriptural. It's bondage under the law and traditions of men.
---Tammy on 7/27/11


//Tithe Your Money Or Else//

Or else what, would your world come to an end?
Where does the Apostle Paul even mention tithing, speaking to the body of Christ?
---michael_e on 6/1/11


most tithe and quote Mal.3 but leave out Mal.4.....this plainly tells the reader to renember the law of moses.There is no difference in the relevance to these verses as it was written for Israels sake NOT for the church.Give what you will with a gratefull heart and continue doing so as a private matter...also study this subject openly and ask the Lord for more understanding.
---richard on 5/31/11


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Then take the threat and begin looking for another job

tithing is between YOU and The Father in Heaven ...the tithe is 10% ...some give more expecting great rewards on earth and in "heaven" ...others never give YET demand handouts

tithing is simply obedience to The Father in Heaven and understanding that it ALL COMES from HIM

the real message is to remove yourself from a domineering man who abuses his leadership role
---Rhonda on 5/26/11


Derek W, Is the reason you do not write your name on the envelope because of not wanting the Enemy to have a foothold in your life with "Pride"? Is it your way of "not letting your left hand know what the right is doing"? If so, kindly explain that to your pastor. You are NOT Biblically obligated to "sign your name" on your Tithes and Offerings. GOD knows you gave it. And, really, your pastor KNOWS you're giving it because you just told him! Sounds like your pastor has the real problem here.
---Gordon on 5/22/11


derek_w,

I also would encourage you to seek the Father in how to handle this situation. It seems odd to me that you are required to be seen giving. Do not be afraid to ask questions like why is it necessary to do this in this way. In doing this you can learn a lot about the spirituality of a church and may find it to be more concerned about money, buildings and programs rather than making disciples. Ultimately you have to make the decision and may God give you wisdom in this situation!
---willa5568 on 5/11/11


I have an aversion to using an envelope to put my offering in.

When I was a kid, we went to a Missionary Baptist church where everyone used an envelope.

Each week, it was posted in the bulletin who gave how much the week before. I visited the church last year, and they still post it in the bulletin. I think it fosters pride.

I remember kids using an envelope to put in 6-8 cents just so they could see their name the next week.

Since you're not supposed to let your left hand know, don't let your pastor's left hand know, either.
---James_L on 5/11/11


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it seems tome that majority here are advocating rebellion. lets be honnest, when someone is an affiliated pastor he is an example to the rest of the church, if that church is promoting tithes to be given in a certain way, and if these are the accepted standards then submit. if you cannot submit, then ask yourself if it wouldn't be better for the church to ghet rid of you? and yes there are certain things done within today's church that where not mentioned in the bible. but you signed up, so...
---andy3996 on 5/11/11


So many people want to be leaders in the church not realizing there is a very high standards to meet. A lot of manmade phooey and outward show. Lording it over the congregation when one is able to do more than the members. I think this is unfair and ungodly. A form of manipulation and outright dishonest. We are to give, according to what we have. Not what we do not have. And to do it cheerfully. The tithe can be given but it is not mandatory today.
Your pastor is a bully and is using Jesus to make a living off of. I would step down and hold my ground on this.
---Robyn on 5/11/11


Since you are in a leadership position it maybe best to show your giving. As a leader you have to be above reproach (aka walk your talk). If you speak on tithing but have a zero by your name your words are worthless. Another option is to have an accountabilty partner (not your spouse) see you give the tithe. But ultimatly giving your tithe should not be published so favorites or guilt trips are not created.
---Scott on 5/11/11


Good posts willa5568 and John.
Once, when I was a member of a particular church, I was told NOT to tithe/give money because I was too poor, and the church would then need to give it back to me. I had started giving because I felt led to do so by the Lord, and I started to be blessed in unexpected ways. I was really confused by what I was told
---christina on 5/11/11


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You are to give 100% of what the Holy Spirit tells you to give and "not let the left hand know what the right hand is giving"

This could be 100% of what a poor man has and 0% of what a rich man has.

Less you put your own rightousness above G-ds!!!

And pass Judgement on these two scenarios!
---John on 5/10/11


First the tithe was given to the Levites who did their service in the temple, which we of coarse have neither today. Second. Many use Abraham giving a tithe, but that is not so. He gave a tenth by choice not commandment.

We are to give to those who teach and build us up in Christ, the poor, and widows who are truly widows. These are done out of love, which is the commandment we are to obey
, faith without works is dead.

If you have a desire to give to build this or that in your place of meeting, then do so.

You cannot apply what was given to the Levites to the church. We are all Kings and Priests!
---willa5568 on 5/10/11


Where I go, we give to the church . . . the little wooden and painted church back at the door, and we do not take a collection. The pastor says, "What you give is between you and God."

However, in some places they use envelopes so people can have a legal record for tax deductions.

I tell my leaders and others what I give, because I believe in accountability to other Jesus people, because we are my family. But if we are not family with a pastor and he is trying to just keep track of us or control us, Peter says to leaders > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
---Bill_willa6989 on 5/10/11


Mima--good thing you finally told your wife. :) If my husband or I give or spend that kind of money, we need the others' blessing lol :D
---Mary on 5/10/11


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I gave nothing some people looked very hard at me.
---mima on 5/9/11

I've been through that experience. I would imagine that many other people have too.

I've been to church services where I just ran out of Cash and Checks for offerings.

In these situations, if anyone stares at me for NOT giving, I politely ask them if they could please GIVE me some money so that I can in turn GIVE that in the offering. Surprisingly, I've NEVER had anyone GIVE me anything under those circumstances.
---Sag on 5/9/11


Elder the practice is done in most mainline protestant denominations to prevent exactly what happened in this instance. I insures a level playing field preventing a pastor from playing favoritism to more affluent givers. That is why pastors should never have access to the giving habits of individual members of the congregation only to aggregate data on church income for giving on an individual service basis.
---Blogger9211 on 5/9/11


Before church took up A visitor to a church that I was at expressed a need. I gave the person my pocket contents of 275$ and a few cents.
Later that person was introduced to the congregation and a collection was taken up. And because I gave nothing some people looked very hard at me. My wife said aren't you going to give anything ?Whereupon I told her the story of what happened.
---mima on 5/9/11


those envelopes. But, can't get people to stop using them. We don't care. We don't take a salary either.
---KarenD on 5/9/11

I agree that Giving Envelopes are an expense, but a good one. It often comes down to being able to Give In Private.

I once visited a church where people -- not the Pastor -- kept tabs on Who gave How Much and their Salaries too. I told them that those facts were none of their business. They looked at me like stone faced drunks. I didn't give anything during the services and always mailed my offering to the church the next day.

Sometimes, I wonder if those people were undercover police officers. Not sure WHY monitoring church offerings would be of any use to them.

---Sag on 5/9/11


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Pastor before my husband became pastor told the congregation that everyone should use an envelope. Figure he wanted to keep track of who pays tithes. This really makes for an extra cost for those envelopes. But, can't get people to stop using them. We don't care. We don't take a salary either.
---KarenD on 5/9/11


If you are paying a tithe anyway, what harm is there in putting your name on a piece of paper?

By the way, if you are going to put yourself under Old Testament Law, there's no need to pay the Levite tribe anymore, that for which the tithe was designed.

The command was to pay your tithe to the Levite tribe.
It was their inheritance.
The Levite tribe were the only ones who paid their tithes to God.
If their is no Levite tribe, there is no tithe.

Read Malachi again, and note who God is scolding for cheating him.
It's Only the Priests, it is not the rest of the tribes.
---David on 5/9/11


This sure sounds like a CULT!!!

Tithing is OT law! I guess its Okay to follow the Law when it's the CULT getting money! Isn't it.

L-E-A-V-E!!!!!
---John on 5/8/11


NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

Now, tell me. Which of the above three tithes commanded by God does anyone follow today?

Your pastor is SELLING positions in the church. SHAME ON HIM. The quicker you leave that church the better.
---Gary on 5/8/11


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Although you have asked no question I agree with Blogger with the exception of "starting procedures for a formal ecclesiastical trial." I say leave that Pastor to the Father, and continue to do what you believe to be proper for you. Apparently that pastor has not considered the instructions of Jesus as concerning giving "When you give to someone in need, [and I believe that is also applicable to an organization in need] don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you" it is obvious that you have. And Derek what is being called a tithe today is indeed no more than a gift, certainly not an obligation.
---Josef on 5/7/11


Blogger9211 tell me where you are getting your directives and standards from on this issue. What you have stated is not correct and never is a long time.
---Elder on 5/7/11


I once had a pastor ask me if we had given to "Faith Promise". That's a mission offering above tithes. Of course we had given & of course he knew it. I said,"of course not, you know we never give to that"... to which he ask,"what percentage did you give?" I said. "Sorry, That's between us & God only." Never answer a question that personal. It's no one's business what you give.
---Reba on 5/7/11


If you know you are really tithing and *in case* you told your pastor this and he does not trust you . . . do you consider him to be a true example leader? > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) And does he meet the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3:1-10? I would say a qualified man can tell if you can be trusted and will welcome you to give in secret. But if you stay, I suppose you are obligated to obey him, for the sake of ministerial "accountability" and "transparency".
---Bill_willa6989 on 5/7/11


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I agree with Blogger9211. What you experienced from that pastor is a signal that it's time to leave that church.

Do a word study on tithing and you will see it is of the law anyway. You will also realise that your pastor is not even using the tithe according to what the law states.
---Haz27 on 5/7/11


there is a difference between advice and an ultimatum.

if i were you, i would continue to ti... give generously anonymously and put an fyi in an envelope with your name to let him know how much you tithed.

this will conserve your convictions (that are scriptural) and appease his 'advice'. if he does not believe you, he has two choices: to kick you out of that church's ministry or to keep a person of deep conviction.

either way, the Lord is your Shepherd.
---aka on 5/7/11


I think it is time for you to change churches. A pastor is never ever supposed to know the giving of any member of the congregation irrespective of office they may hold only the stewardship secretary who keep the records on individual giving. What your pastor did was totally devoid of ethics and is grounds to have him/her removed from the clergy. And I would suggest starting procedures for a formal ecclesiastical trial to do so.
---Blogger9211 on 5/7/11


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