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Explain Genesis 4:14

Genesis 4:14: "...and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." Word limitations forbid giving the whole verse. Who is this "every one"? There were only two other people--his parents.

Moderator - Only two other people mentioned. Adam and Eve were obviously not limited to two children.

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At your service Joseph!
---Leon on 6/26/11


Willa: I agree, except I'm leaning towards believing Cain & Abel really were the firstborn sons of Adam & Eve as the Bible says. Here's a point to ponder, i.e., did Eve & her daughters have shorter gestation periods, e.g., 3 or 6 instead of 9 months? Is it likely a few were twins, etc.? If so, factor that in with the number of years the Bible says the first people lived & voila! You betcha ~ that's a whole lotta babies!!! :)
---Leon on 6/26/11


Mark,

I agree. Something else to consider is it does not say Cain and Abel are there firstborn but rather are the first mentioned, though they may have been. Also there is no mention as to the age when they were born. The first mention of age is Seth being born at Adams 130yrs of age. It also mentions Cain having a wife. If Eve had a child every nine months she would have had 1,170 children by the time Adam was 130 yrs. of age. When you consider this many men and women coming together and God saying be fruitful and multiply, that's a lot of babies!
---willa5568 on 6/26/11


Leon, I agree on the subject of children. We don't know the particulars. When Cain took a wife, there had to be many descendants of Adam already. The life span of those early descendants was in the hundreds of years, there could have been thousands by the time he took a wife. When the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" God named Abel by name. Indicating that there might be others or else He would not say, Abel your brother. It would not be necessary to say that if only Abel was the only other brother. He would have said, "Where is your brother?" "And Adam lived 130 years, and begot a son in his own likeness" It does not mean that he didn't get other sons that didn't have his likeness.
---Mark_V. on 6/26/11


Leon, although I was being a bit facetious as concerning the question, thanks for the explanation. Taking the word "slay" progressively back to the etymology of the word does clarify the statement. Thanks again for taking the time to do so, and sharing your findings.
---joseph on 6/26/11




Thanks Mark.
---Warwick on 6/13/11


Warwick, you are right again. I have great joy in answering questions concerning Scripture. It not only allows us to study more, but we can learn from others somethings the Spirit wants to reveal to us that He hasn't already. I, myself can talk about Scripture all day long, I never get tired, and I'm always learning. Some people don't like to talk about God, and do get tired and many times leave the area because they do not feel what you feel. There is people here working for the enemy, and then there is people here who are not yet at the level of others, and then there is those who already are bias who come from none-christian denominations. And then you have the athiest who love to critic God with sarcastic remarks.
---Mark_V. on 6/13/11


Joseph: Strong's Concordance defines "slay" as to smite [beat upon] with deadly intent [violently] to destroy [wreak havoc/hurt/severely damage], to ultimately injure to the extent of killing/putting a person to death. I think Cain actually feared being chased, found & repeatedly beaten up on, & eventually he'd die as a result of frequent beatings from them (every one).

Zantetsu: Believe the Bible (G1:27-28, 3:20). It wasn't just possible but highly probable. The Bible doesn't say how many children Adam & Eve (A & E) had. But, if you consider the likelyhood of other children (perhaps girls) plus Cain, Abel, Seth & other "sons & daughters"(G5:4), we can see A & E had many children. :)
---Leon on 6/13/11


Cluny: Do you mean to say because children aren't mentioned "by name" in the Bible, that must means they didn't exist?
---Leon on 6/13/11


The only logical conclusion!
Should be as written, is that!
All things are possible with God!
Therefore any logical conclusion, is what?

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

And just so we are clear!
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Anyway may God bless and help all of us in looking for the true!
---TheSeg on 6/12/11




Mark, in blogging and face to face debate over the decades I have noticed that true seekers after truth are generally happy to give answers as to what they believe. Most also admit their current views are wrong when shown this via Scripture. But those who defend a nonBiblical view either do not answer questions or answer them evasively. Some are amazingly creative in their ability to misunderstand posts and questions.

I am sure you, as I have done, have had to change your views when shown from Scripture that you are incorrect. I once believed God used evolution to create. But then, praise God, I was shown that this is contrary to the clear meaning of God's word.
---Warwick on 6/12/11


\\The only logical conclusion is A & E had more living children (G1:27-28) at the time Cain murdered Abel (G4:14...).\\

There's nothing in the Bible to suppport this conclusion, Leon, as the only other child of Adam and Eve mentioned by name in the Bible is Seth, who was born AFTER the murder of Abel and the expulsion of Cain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/11/11


Leon, Yes Leon. period.
---Eloy on 6/12/11


Is it possible that Adam and Eve had children before Cain and Abel? How many more children could they have had after Cain and Abel?
---Zantetsu on 6/12/11


Warwick, I see the same thing coming from John usa, but let me say that I rather answer him then those who curse you are insult you or hunt you down in every blog with the soul purpose of vengence in their heart. Now those have evil intentions. John usa has done nothing like that, that I have witness. The other John has answered much differently then this John. You have done good defending the Bible. You and I might have different interpretations of some passages, but still consider Scripture to be inspired by God.

Leon, great answers you gave to Eloy.
---Mark_V. on 6/12/11


Leon that is exactly the conclusion I came to. The questions you asked in your post can be answered in no other way. I believe Cain an Abel represented children of the flesh, as sensually based. Sensually personifying the good and evil that Adam and Eve had been brought to a knowledge of. Cain being brought to the realization of evil he had committed, feared that that evil would be reciprocated towards him continually, and it is obvious to me that the every one he was referring to were the children of Adam and Eve. My only question concerning this, based on the wording, is how many times did Cain think he could be killed?:o)
---joseph on 6/12/11


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No Eloy!:) The only logical conclusion is A & E had more living children (G1:27-28) at the time Cain murdered Abel (G4:14...). To suppose otherwise would mean A & E were disobedient in delaying action on God's command to procreate/be fruitful & multiply. I don't believe A & E were slow to act on God's plan. How else would Eve ("the mother of all living", G3:20) know about child bearing? (G3:16) Also, how is it that Cain had a wife if there were no women available to mate? (G4:17)
---Leon on 6/11/11


His parents were commnded to procreate, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over the beasts. Therefore Cain was speaking about his parents and their future children, after they hear about him murdering Able they will repay him for his killing their family kin.
---Eloy on 6/11/11


Mark,

God bless you, and I hope you will take what I have said about the deity of Christ and look for yourself.

Grace and Peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

P.S Neither I nor anyone who is a Biblical Unitarian say certain scripture isn't true, but rather it is interpreted and perverted to make it mean something it doesn't by those who espouse that doctrine.
---willa5568 on 6/11/11


Mark, I get your point.

Nonetheless I consider it important to point out error, as in "Know the truth and the truth will set you free." John.usa bobs up here and there, almost always promoting scepticism about Scripture.

I also believe he hides his true beliefs by using words in ways which hide his actual meanings. I think it most likely he does this to sow doubt about God's word.

Who is John? Is he really John? He claims to accept the truth of Scripture but rejects the truth of the gospels!

I have not abused him but challenged him to answer questions which will make clear what he believes. But he wont!

Remember this is a forum where we can all be challenged.
---Warwick on 6/11/11


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Warwick, what you say is true. I'm not saying you are wrong. But as Willa said, all you can do is bring the Truth and that's all. You want an answer that he does not want to give. You pushed him into a corner demanding an answer. Probably to show you are correct and you are, but does it change his believes? No. He is who he is and believes what he does. It is not a "must/" to know the answer. I don't believe everyone has all the knowledge. He could be a new believer, just beginning. The first order of business for us should be that all Scripture is the Word of God. But as you can see many do not believe it all. They question every part of it. Or say some passages are not true, especially when it comes to the Deity of God.
---Mark_V/ on 6/10/11


Mark, you of all people appear to accept John's attitude to Scripture. He wrote "I don't question the truth of scripture. If I did, I would not be a believer."

But he also wrote : "The Gospels themselves are myth, with some historical basis."

So does he actually want us to believe he accepts the truth of Scripture, while saying the Gospels are not the truth? And what Jesus (the Truth) says about Genesis cannot be accepted as historical fact! He is playing games with the word truth.

Does this make him a Bible-believer or a liberal, or a sceptic?
---Warwick on 6/10/11


John use, you gave me a great answer and I do go with it. I would never question yours or anyone's salvation, unless I heard you say evil things to others and then I would not be sure since I cannot see the heart of others, I can only assume. But you are correct, God reveals Himself to us in many ways, and we begin to see the whole picture. I'm sorry that this blog became personal. But I believe it happen when you said the word "myth." Sometimes when we use a word, others catch on very fast. The use of words are so important, since many are reading what we write. Blessings and peace
---Mark_V. on 6/10/11


Willa I have noticed what John has written on a number of threads and he has mostly exhibited little faith in the historical truth of God's word.

He says the gospels are not the truth but contain some truth. Can a Bible believing Christian accept this?

Either he holds these views in ignorance of he is aware of the error he is spreading.

From my long experience I have come to understand that those who hold erroneous views in ignorance (and we have all been guilty of that) will almost always engage in dialogue, consider what is said, and answer questions.

John refuses to answer relevant questions. This is not the way genuine people behave.

I believe we need to use the wisdom God gives us and not be naive.
---Warwick on 6/10/11


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For what if some did not believe?
Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid!

Let God be true!
But every man a liar!
As it is written!

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory!
Why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise!
For we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin,

There is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
---TheSeg on 6/10/11


I've never met two people, who believe everything in the bible, the same way.
Some believe one thing and some another.
Aren't some lying to themselves, believing a myth?

Look at one of my belief, how stupid is this!
I believe everyone has been saved by God!
Who can believe such a thing?
1Co6:1-5 I speak to your shame.

Even to this blog!
Could there have been other people on the earth before Adam?
Now listen, I'm not saying there were! A myth!

But there were Holy men before Christ?
Yet, God didn't call any of them Son!
Yet they are children!
As with Abraham, he had two sons.
Yet! Didn't God say one!

Gen1:27 So God created man!
The difference between beasts and men!
---TheSeg on 6/10/11


Warick,

I have experience quite often people evade things I have presented, but all I can do is share what I know to be true. All you can do is share how what he understands scripture to be is incorrect, but in gentleness, because you can not push him into a corner to convince him what you say is true. If you feel you are correct good, but remember this isn't a debate we try to win.
---willa5568 on 6/9/11


John, anyone who is comfortable about what they believe has nothing to fear by answering relevant questions. That you you are unwilling to do so indicates you have something to hide.
---Warwick on 6/9/11


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Warwick, I've said all I'm going to say about it. If you doubt my salvation, so be it. There's nothing I can do to stop you. I wish you well. See you on another blog question sometime. God bless. :-)
---John.usa on 6/9/11


It deals with Cain's disgruntled whinning reply to God, knowing that Adam and Eve would have children hear the story and then take vengeance upon him. This he feared more than the act of him slaying his own brother. Cain was the first murderer, yet the sign that God put upon his head marked him as "a murderer" only. Much like the Scarlet letter. It said to all afters behold a murderer!
---ivan9398 on 6/9/11


Mark, what I may think about John's salvation does not change his salvation. That is between him and God.

I also do not know if John is John at all. We have had and exposed a few fakes here. I am not saying John is a fake, but how do I know?

However I have rarely seen John make unequivocal statements about the truth of God's word. In my opinion he plays games with words telling us that "Myth usually contains MORE truth than straight reporting." Remember what he calls "straight reporting" is God's word for us.


If he was genuine he would have no reason not to answer my questions.

Those who avoid straight answers to straight questions are being evasive. Why?
---Warwick on 6/9/11


John, in your complaint you give me every reason for doubt.

What you say is that Scripture is subject to personal interpretation-God says no.

Unless Scripture is historical reality, Truth of the first order, it is a lie. If, for example, Jesus did not historically and physically die and rise again, we are dead in our sins.

I believe you promote the liberal idea that Scripture is a purely spiritual exercise, not historical reality, and that we are free to interpret it any way we like.

But then you say you accept the truth of Scripture! But you don't, because God's Truth is absolute Truth. I believe you promote the liberal idea that truth is not necessarily fact!

Am I right?
---Warwick on 6/9/11


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//storing & systematically reasoning (running) a plethora of software apps (specifically the Bible)// Leon

Reason and logic are things not always necessary to input information that is relevant according to some. Somethings obviously, such as this, we can say there are more than two people by using them. But in some cases we are told that they do not apply.
---willa5568 on 6/9/11


Amen Mark_V! God has given us all mental hardware individually capable of downloading, storing & systematically reasoning (running) a plethora of software apps (specifically the Bible) that heighten our awareness ~ increase our understanding, knowledge & wisdom. I agree, without a doubt, God knows exactly what He's doing!!!
---Leon on 6/9/11


Mark V., Warwick did question my salvation. I appreciate it that you didn't. I don't question the truth of scripture. If I did, I would not be a believer. It is a fairly recent idea in the history of mankind that in order to be truthful, writings must be historical and completely factual. This is a misconception. Scripture is like a beautiful painting that brings out the truth of its subjects better than any photograph could. Please give God the freedom to speak to people in ways they can best understand Him. Let's not put everyone in boxes of our own construction. God bless you.
---John.usa on 6/9/11


John usa, I really didn't think that Warwick was saying you were not saved. He was questioning your faith, what you believe in, in Scripture and what you don't. I believe that was what he was saying. Whether you are saved or not is not for anyone of us to question, for only God know's the heart. But you question Scripture and what you believed in and those things you don't, so faith in God's Word was in doubt, which part is Truth and which is not Truth. If I'm wrong Warwick, please correct me on what you said.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/11


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Warwick, don't you think perhaps it is rather arrogant of you to decide someone is not a Christian because they don't answer questions to your satisfaction? Do you really believe my salvation is contingent upon my pleasing you with whatever responses you expect? Please don't be that way. It is unseemly. God bless you.
---John.usa on 6/9/11


Leon, great answers brother. There is no other conclusion. That only those people are mention is true, but if every single person was mention and what they did and did not do, would make Genesis so big that it would be a Bible in itself not just a book in the Bible. Exact number of humans are not mentioned. God knew we would put things together with the brain He gave us.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/11


John, your refusal to answer these questions, for me brings into doubt the reality of your faith in Jesus.

My questions are:

You say only part of the gospels are truth so:

How do YOU know which is which?

Why do you believe the part which says Jesus rose from the dead?

Maybe that is myth i.e. not historical reality?

You are saying what Jesus says is not necessarily historical reality! But you believe in Him!

Believe what?

If you are genuine you should be willing to give answers to these relevant questions.
---Warwick on 6/8/11


Warwick, see it as you will. Since I'm a believer in Jesus, what more do you want from me? God bless.
---John.usa on 6/8/11


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There are only certain sons mentioned in the lineage of the men. I can not bring to remembrance any women being mentioned. There is though a period of time between the birth of Cain and Abel and possibly before the birth of Cain since there is no hint of what Adams age was as it was with Seth. We do know Adam had other sons and daughters.
---willa5568 on 6/8/11


"Only two other people [Adam & Eve] mentioned. Adam & Eve were obviously not limited to two children [Gen. 1:27-28]." Moderator, 6/3

Very true Moderator!

Cluny: While "every one" on this blog is currently fighting, I'd like to take the opportunity to answer your question with a followup question. Why would Cain be fearful of "every one" if, as some bloggers wrongly believe, the only other living people besides Cain were his parents? The only logical conclusion is that Adam & Eve had more living children (Gen. 1:27-28) at the time Cain murdered Abel (Gen/ 4:14...).
---Leon on 6/8/11


John, that is not an answer but evasion.

I look forward to an answer to my questions.
---Warwick on 6/7/11


TheSeg, many thanks.
---John.usa on 6/7/11


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I have to say since I first saw the word myth. I have been asking God to explain this man's saying.
I wasn't looking at myself, I was looking at you! Very well done john.usa!
I would like to say almost biblical itself! Good job!
God bless you.
---TheSeg on 6/7/11


As long as you believe that myth means fiction, you will misunderstand what I'm saying. Myth usually contains MORE truth than straight reporting.
---John.usa on 6/7/11


John, you wrote "The Gospels themselves are myth, with some historical basis. So what Jesus says in the Gospels does not prove the historicity of anything in Genesis."

No matter how you try to now evade it you are saying that only part of the gopspels ase truth. How do YOU know which is which? Why do you believe the part which says Jesus rose from the dead? Maybe that is myty i.e. not historical reality?

And you are saying what Jesus says is not necessarily historical reality! But you believe in Him! Hmm.
---Warwick on 6/7/11


Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him, and he vanished out of their sight.

Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

I'm not saying it's easy to believe all that the prophets have spoken
As written.
Rev 21:17
---TheSeg on 6/7/11


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Samuel, you are right, John usa, believes myths, instead of the Truth of God's Word. It should not surprise anyone since many others also believe myths over truth. They care to believe only what they want to believe. What assurance do they have? none.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/11


Warwick, you are making assumptions about my beliefs based on what you think I believe, not on what I've said. Please see my response to Alan of UK. I believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, and that I am included in His body. If someone thinks that I have to believe or do anything else to be Christ's, that's their problem.
---John.usa on 6/6/11


John, considering Jesus' comments about Genesis-always described as historical reality,you are saying one of two things.

Firstly that He (the Creator) did not know what the truth of the past was.

Or that He knew the truth but told lies.

Which do you believe to be true?
---Warwick on 6/6/11


Alan of UK, they are reliable enough to give me the faith I need to be a believer. Myth works better than history that way for me.
---John.usa on 6/6/11


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We do not know there were only the parents. The bible leaves out a lot of details and only covers the high or low points of some events.

Most people who reject the authority of the bible call the gospels a myth.

They generlly lack the courage to call the Apostles liars. They lack the proof of saying it is false. Instead they say JESUS could not have done this things. Even many churches follow this line.
---Samuel on 6/6/11


John usa ... What is your definition of myth?

Are you saying that the Gospels are not reliable reports of Jesus activities and teachings?
---alan8566_of_UK on 6/6/11


The Gospels themselves are myth, with some historical basis. So what Jesus says in the Gospels does not prove the historicity of anything in Genesis.
---John.usa on 6/5/11


John, show me where Jesus (there at the beginning of creation) took Genesis as other than historical reality?
---Warwick on 6/5/11


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This is not a question that would have arisen to the original readers, for they read it as myth, not history.
---John.usa on 6/4/11


Look at Christ's baptism.
Where it was written:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

And at:
Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah, and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
---TheSeg on 6/4/11


This is a quote of what Cain said after he murdered his brother Abel. So, this is what a murderer having Satan's spirit has said, so we can't assume that anything he says is true.

However, even if he was the only man, at that time, besides Adam, still there could be children, later born, who could kill Cain.

Adam and Eve had Seth > Genesis 4:25-26 > "instead of Abel", Eve said. So, Seth and ones after him could have known about the murder of Abel, and they could have been ready to seek revenge.
---Bill_willa6989 on 6/3/11


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