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Satan Infiltrates The Church

In what way(s) have you seen Satan and his servants infiltrate the Church? 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

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 ---Rob on 6/7/11
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Cliff, you have it backwards. You made the statements, I asked you to justify your statements. That's the way it goes.

I would like you to detail Nostradamus' prophecies which predict WW1, and the twin towers. Just saying there are prophecies which predict.... is rather meaningless without detail.

Likewise saying Paul's prophecies have not been fulfilled is rather meaningless without detail.

Details please.
---Warwick on 6/23/11

Paul's prophecy at 2 Tim.3:1-5 is certainly undergoing fulfillment-

'But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal... not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God...'

All prophecy is inspired of God. Men were used to pen the prophecies, but they should be attributed to God. To ascribe prophecies to men- ie 'Pauline prophecies or John's prophecies'- is shortsighted, and dishonourable to Almighty God.
---David8318 on 6/23/11

Atheist .. Thanks for your reply

If all those were actually on Christian churches, I can understand why you are so critical of Christianity as man has made it.

& If God had said those all things, he would indeed not be the God I know.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/23/11

Warwick, Always leaning to one side as usual...I told you 1st world war and twin towers as 2 examples, also that "none" of Paul's prophecies have occurred and still, you never answer "any" of my Qs, so by the same reasoning as you, your answers must not be truthful! Right?
My post was fairly extensive!
---1st_cliff on 6/23/11


Regarding my posts on another blog. The church signs were not made up by me. They are actual church signs.

I did find them funny, but did not feel that I had to edit them to be non-offensive given they were in front of real churches.

I think they do point out however, that if the pastors who put up these signs, are unaware of the meaning of words in their own language, then it is questionable that they can interpret the Bible.

One sign, not posted, read "GAYS NOT WELCOME" and on the other "LOSERS WELCOME". Context and juxtaposition? Critical thinking regarding outreach?
---atheist on 6/23/11

Shira, I will say that satan is not the cause of everything. Sin is. Man is responsible for his actions. By blaming satan in everything, you take the responsibility off the individual, just like Eve did.
Concering bibles, not all are perverted. One that is, is the New World Translation. The intend of that bible was to corrupt the Scriptures that speak of the deity of Christ. Others which have many mistakes but I don't think the intend was to pervert the Bible is the Harper and Scofield Reference Bibles and commentaries. Most others were change to a better language to make it easier for many to grasp Scripture better. The meaning is not changed but the words use are different. But no bible is completely correct to the originals manuscripts.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/11

Shira ... ALL the English language Bibles were translated in the last 500 years ... that is 1500 years after they were written.

The KJV, which you worship, was only "written" as you say, some 500 years ago.

But it was not written, it was only a translation, just as later versions are.

The KJV translators never claimed to be inspired, nor that their version should be the only one.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/23/11

Cliff you wrote "Nostradamus', who doesn't claim "inspiration", have actually occurred!"

I have asked you to show what of his prophecies have occurred. But you give no answer!

I have asked you to show which of Paul's prophecies have not occurred. But again you give no answer!

If your have made truthful statements you should be able to answer my questions.
---Warwick on 6/23/11

willa, thanks for the scolding but when I mention perverted versions I am speaking of the ones written in the last 100 years. I can show you many examples of how men have perverted the Word of God. Are you an expert on the perverted versions? I pray not. I am educated but not by men's standards. The facts I have stated is not my opinion but a fact.
---shira3877 on 6/22/11

shira 39877,

it is yours and others opinion that new translations are perverted. There certainly are some, but a great many are not. If you consider the King James to be the best and only translation good and worthy to read today, though it is very good, then you limit your understanding of scripture and any competent biblical scholar would tell you the same. Your research, I am sure, is based on bias not scholarship. The Greek and Hebrew language are very rich in meaning, to limit the translation of this is a tragedy and hurtful to understanding scripture properly.
---willa5568 on 6/22/11

Warwick, Like I said, Nostradamus doesn't claim inspiration,and whether or not people "read into them" they still happened.
Seems all Paul's prophecies are yet future and questionable. I don't know any that have occurred as fulfilled!(name some)
Are you suggesting that no one "reads into" bible prophecies??? Like Harold Camping for one or SDAs,JWs or Televangelists?
---1st_cliff on 6/22/11

//Come on, folks wake up!! Forget Paul. Learn from the Master, the Son of God. Follow Jesus.//

What falls from my back when I get sunburn are scales otherwise known as flakes. yet, i am not a serpent.

lepo(to peel), a flake: scale. family to the word leprosy.

in the scripture, the verse says 'like scales' and not scales.

what fell from Paul's eyes was perhaps spiritual leprosy. and i pray one day the same thing happens to you Barb. We cannot follow Jesus Christ and go back to Judaism at the same time.
---aka on 6/21/11

Cliff, Nostradamus' prophecies, his quatrains, have been exposed as frauds, or at best people reading things into them.

I repeat my question: what Pauline prophecy has not been fulfilled?
---Warwick on 6/21/11

markv, I don't know who you are addrssing when you say we blame satan for everything. The bible says anything that isn't of God is of satan....go figure. I said satan is still trying to make people who read perverted versions of the bible believe God and Jesus Christ are not deity. I stand by that statement because I know what the other versions (over the past 200 yrs) say. Satan and all who stand with him will be cast into hell together. I am dogma about my faith, just like the founding fathers. The bible says not to give place to the devil and I will try hard to stand by that too. God bless
---shira_3877 on 6/21/11

willa, I have researched. Even satan has convinced you the perverted versions are O.k. That is the thing I was trying to get across but I can see, there are still deaf ears. I know about the Geneva bible and the Cambridge bible and now the King James bible. why don't you study and you will see all the perversions that exist in the modern versions, lets say over the last 200 years.
---shira3877 on 6/21/11

When I hear the answers many here give, it is no wonder many false doctrines enter the church. Everyone wants to blame satan, but most of it comes from individuals who already have a bias believe. Who learned not from Scripture but from some guy they heard. If Scripture is not the infallable word of God, then don't read it for you do not have faith in the Word. If you don't like the church of Christ, don't go, since you will be taking false doctrines into them, the reason many have gone bad. There can be no question that many early church fathers were philosophers who came over to the early church, brought with them their dogmas. If most of you who hate the church go, all you will do is bring your own dogmas.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/11

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Warwick,Nostradamus's' prophecies are well known including the 1st world war and the twin towers!
What "Pauline" prophecies have come to fruition?
---1st_cliff on 6/21/11

Cliff what Nostradamus prophecy has eventuated and what Pauline one/s haven't?
---Warwick on 6/21/11


There were six complete English translations (though there were partial translations before) before the KJV with the Genevea Bible being equal if not better in translation, though probably not readability. The reason for the numerous amount of modern translations within the past 200 yrs (though there are more than necessary but they can be useful) is the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and new manuscripts which add up to over 5,000. Also the scholarship in the Greek,Aramaic and Hebrew language has advanced to help give a more accurate translation in some cases. I would suggest you do some research on this, it is quite interesting and educational.
---willa5568 on 6/20/11

Barb, I thought I was the only "non Paulite" on here, I doubt that Paul deliberately tried to mislead the congregation,but like so many Pastors today. He thought He was God ordained altho so many Pharisee traits keep emerging and he took on a martyrs role!
Some of his writings are actually brilliant, but then again so is Socrates and Plato!
Non of his prophecies have come to pass,but Nostradamus', who doesn't claim "inspiration", have actually occurred!
People believe Paul's words are "God breathed"???
---1st_cliff on 6/20/11

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Rhonda, you are wrong my dear about the church. The local assembly is a church and satan has infiltrated the local assembly. He has even infiltrated the Holy Word of God with all the versions around. Why would there be tons of versions if it were from God???? your denomination may be ungodly but when I tell someone I am baptist, at least they know what I believe. I would never belong to a generic assembly.
---shira3877 on 6/20/11

1Cliff, to me the only thing that matters is what Scripture has to say about the Church. What man do and what they present is truth if it comes from Scripture. Otherwise its their own opinions. And as I can see on this website, some opinions are too far out.
Even the visible church of Christ has many genuine believers, and those believers are part of the body of Christ no matter from what denomination they come from if they are born of the Spirit. The Spirit unites us into one body. And that body is the Church and can gather anywhere, and they do not stop been born again.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


please read 2Peter 3:15-17 before you reject what God has revealed through his apostle. It is up to you though to accept or reject these writings, but I encourage you to pray about this because it is extremely serious pertaining to your growth in "the grace and knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ" (2Peter 3:18).

Gods grace and peace to you
---willa5568 on 6/19/11

I have seen Satan infiltrate the bible through the words of Paul....Paul should know how Satan does it because he, himself was fooled by the serpent. What fell out of Saul's eyes after his Damascas fiasco? Come on, folks wake up!! Forget Paul. Learn from the Master, the Son of God. Follow Jesus.
---barb on 6/19/11

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they have not infiltrated the church established by Christ

church are the called out ones ...called out from the world and its ways

counterfeit christianity teaches it is a denomination or a building and has a street address

TRUE followers of Christ worship in TRUTH and SPIRIT

counterfeit christianity was established by slapping ANOTHER Christ INTO pagan traditions and practices that Christ WARNED His true followers to stay away from Mark 7:6-9

the synagogue of satan operates as a christian church how else would the god of this world 2Corin 4:4 DECEIVE MANY ...notice it does not say a few
---Rhonda on 6/19/11

willa, you described the church perfectly. Thanks. I have seen satan infiltrate a church and turn the members against each other, first thru music. Everyone left that assembly and God wrote icabod over that assembly. Every pastor they ever had was forced to leave due to unrelenting critism and pressure. Certain other ones wanted the power to run the assembly...thus satan.
---shira3877 on 6/18/11

Mark V, When people discuss "church" they seldom mean the metaphorical body of Christ.
They are referring to the "Main Street Baptist Church" (for example)in their locale.
People seldom get the gist when discussing apples and oranges!
---1st_cliff on 6/18/11

1Cliff, I believe the answer Mary gave you was very good. You ask who started it and without the Holy Spirit there is no Church. The body of Christ.
Now you are talking about denominational churches, which means you have another purpose for your question. Which indicates you did not want to know the Truth of what a Church is in Scripture. You wanted instead to talk about what the Churches are called today and what they do wrong. But Mary said the Church of Christ is made up of believers not tares, who are one body in Christ through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. All genuine believers, whether Jews are Gentiles, from all nations.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/11

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If You ask any one on the street "which church do you belong to"? they will invariably state a denomination (if they go at all)
The Jews attended synagogue (school) for religious instruction!
Neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit instituted the "denominational church"!
Paul did IE Corinth, Ephesus etc..along with all the rules of conduct!
From there evolved our modern day "church system" tho some call it "Gospel Hall, Temple, Assembly" etc it's all the same!
Paul was the leader with all the Pharisee trappings, not the Holy Spirit!
---1st_cliff on 6/17/11


I,m not sure you understand clearly what church means in scripture. "church" is a horrible translation of "Ekklesia". It refers to an assembly of people, which in our case is for religious purposes. It can also be used in a metaphorical sense in referring to the church as a building (Matt.16:18) in which the Messiah is the chief cornerstone.

Deacons actually were put into place by the 12 (Peter,John,etc.) and were for the purpose of caring for the needs of the people, so they could study scripture and teach the people. Bishops,elders or pastors are synonymous and are to serve in teaching, exhorting and correcting. I think it's important to notice "appoint elder(s)",plural, in the church.
---willa5568 on 6/17/11

Cliff, I know what you said, the Church is the body of Christ. There is no other Church. All believers are part of the body of Christ, they make up the believers who gather in churches and other places. I'm not talking about unbelievers "tare's" who gather with believers "wheat" by faith.
---mary on 6/17/11

Mary, If you read my post you'll see I said, right off the hopper , that I was not talking about the "body of Christ"!
---1st_cliff on 6/16/11

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Cliff, I have it right here, 1 Cor. 12:13,14
"for by one Spirit we were baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free" the body is not one member but many. The Church is the body of Christ.
---mary on 6/16/11

Mary, What scripture says that the Holy Spirit instituted the church???
---1st_cliff on 6/15/11

mary: "Why not those who gather together in a Church?..."

Today's denominational church goers are only hearers of the word. Going to church has become a routine. And then what they do during church service are routines (stand to sing, sit to listen, kneel to pray - three or four times during a service). The sermons are watered down, feel good stories that are injected with a bible verse here and there to make them sound biblical. Entertainment and eastern religions have crept into denominational churches to attract the masses. Then a person is obligated to pay tithes to pay for maintenance of the building and salaries. Denominational churches are shackled to the government who holds the key to their tax exempt status.
---Steveng on 6/14/11

If you were to travel across country starting churches, wouldn't you need a way to identify them? Wouldn't you want to know the people of a certain location? Wouldn't you want to send a message to a certain group for a certain purpose? If I asked you to send a message to the christians, wouldn't you want to know which group or location? You wouldn't send a message to the Los Angeles group if there were problems in the Chicago church, would you?
---Steveng on 6/14/11

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willa, I agree that where any two or more gather that is where you find the church of Christ. I also know if they gather in a building, whether they own it or not, they will have to pay bills to maintain their gatherings, God will provide through the donations of believers, and prayers. It was the Holy Spirit who instituted the Church, not Paul. Many churches have gone wrong, but only because of sin of man, but the true church is without sin.
---mary on 6/15/11

Who invented churches? (I don't mean the body of Christ)
Paul set up 7 churches in Asia Minor even tho Jesus walked with His disciples for 3 1/2 years never suggested any such thing!
Jesus ,being born Jewish attended synagogue on occasion, but it was a school not a church!
Paul set up Deacons,Bishops, Elders,rules regulations etc..
Neither was the "Temple" a forerunner of the church, Only the priests entered in!
You can thank Paul for "churches".
---1st_cliff on 6/14/11


That is my point that the people of the church have become lazy. I never mentioned that the church is just a building. But the pastor is a leader of the people of the church but he is not responsible for what God has layed on your heart to go do.
---Scott on 6/14/11


It doesn't sound like steveng is saying it is wrong to meet in a church building, but it becomes wrong when it becomes a business(which in the US is the case for 99% of the churches) or is the only proper way a church can meet in fellowship(which I have heard ministers say).
---willa5568 on 6/14/11

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Steven, if believers gather together as you said:

"As for fellowship, it's where two or more are gathered in Christ's name be it a park, a cafe, on a street corner, or at home"

Why not those who gather together in a Church? Why is that gathering not exceptable? And where do you read they should not gather in a Church? I would like to see some evidence as to what you say.
---mary on 6/14/11

Only making the point that wrong doctrine (rod and staff) could lead men astray to being lost.
(Jeremiah 50:6) Also, the burden of the shepperd (teacher) is heavier.
As 1 Corinthians 3:11 is concerned, I point that the "foundation" is the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
"For other foundation can no man lay...", we do not lay Christ, only his doctrine... which happens to be that which harmonizes man and God,ie, the will of God in man's heart. Knowledge, up to a point. Love is greater, and it is the doctrine, the foundation.(1Cor.13) So, to knowledge,Yes and No.
---Nana on 6/14/11

Scott: "I think that you pastor need to go talk to them about coming back to church."

The true church of God does not limit itself to physical churches. The true church of God does not have buildings or material things to adorn the place. Nor is it a non-profit organization which belong to the government. The true church of God does not spend money on maintaining a building, paying salaries, etc.

As for fellowship, it's where two or more are gathered in Christ's name be it a park, a cafe, on a street corner, or at home.
---Steveng on 6/13/11


he said that as a man though. Because he is God and man no matter what he says, "the Father is greater than I" he said that as a man" but then they make others into him saying he is God, which he never says, but in fact says the opposite as you say. In reality no one can explain 100%man, 100%God, God being in a man that was tempted but He wasn't, God being in a man who died but He didn't, God having a God but denying Himself because he dwelt in a man although he still is claimed to say He was God. Yes a mystery indeed.
---willa5568 on 6/13/11

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JamesL- regarding Revelation 20:12, 'How can the dead be seen standing if they don't exist?'

The Bible often uses the word 'dead' figuratively, as in Eph.2:1, 'Furthermore, it is you God made alive though you were dead in your trespasses and sins.' Also, Col.2:13, 'Furthermore, though you were dead in your trespasses...' So people are said to be 'dead' because of inherited Adamic sin.

This is how I understand Rev.20, which speaks of 2 groups, those who come to life at the start of the 1000 year reign and rule with Christ, but as 20:5 tells us, some won't 'come to life until the end of the 1000 years'. While alive during the 1000 years, they are figuratively 'dead' until they receive life at the end of the 1000 year reign.
---Dvaid8318 on 6/13/11

Y'know,it's not necessary to cite mega scriptures to prove a point.
Sometimes the simplest scenario is the most profound!
IE. Mat.6.9 Jesus said "Our Father (yours and mine) who is "in heaven" hallowed be "Your Name" (not mine)
So if he was "God in the flesh" as some say then He was deliberately misleading the disciples!
Where they face-to-face with God? He says NO, "God is in heaven". Was god's name "Jesus?" He says NO, "your name be sanctified"!
"Your will be done" as he also said at His crucifiction,"Not my will but your will"
---1st_cliff on 6/13/11

Hello Nana- I'm not sure if you're asking the question again but yes, I do believe accurate knowledge is important for salvation.

You cite 1 Cor.3:11 and ask 'Is that foundation built on doctrine?' (6/13/11) As Paul said, that foundation is Jesus Christ. John said, 'This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.' (Jo.17:3) Everlasting life is dependent upon obtaining 'Knowledge' of God and Christ.

'Keep working out your own salvation'- Ph.2:12.

Some on this thread say 'I believe people are saved by Grace alone.' But surely they needed knowledge of what that 'grace' is in order to understand it in the first place?
---David8318 on 6/13/11

Samuel- Plato's philosophy of metaphysics, 'nature and substance' is recognised by many as the formulae by which Hellenists and apostate Christendom grafted the Egypto-Babylonian trinity dogma into 'Christianity'. Paul foretold this as the great apostasy- 2 Thess.2:3-7.

The French Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (New Universal Dictionary) says of Plato's influence: 'The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches... This Greek philosopher's conception of the divine trinity... can be found in all the ancient (pagan) religions.'
---David8318 on 6/13/11

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For example a person in a church saying this. "/persons name/ has not been to church in a long time. I think that you pastor need to go talk to them about coming back to church." In the southeast this is how most churchs operate. Whether it is pastor led "I am Anointed Man, only I can do this" or lazyness of people in church. The worst part is people can make it sound spiritual or God centered. If you are called to do something it is your responsibility to do it. Satan does not do frontal attacks were we clearly see it, but slow behind the scenes attacks.
---Scott on 6/13/11

leej, you post falsehood, for evidence has revealed that most people whom follow the corrupted texts of unholy bibles become themselves corrupted and do not gain any understanding of the authemtic Scripture.
---Eloy on 6/13/11

>>David I do not believe people are saved by correct doctrine. Do you?<<

Jeremiah 50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace."

1 Corinthians 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Is that foundation built on doctrine?

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
---Nana on 6/13/11

David and Cliff,

acts 14:11 "And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian,The GODS HAVE COME DOWN TO US IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN"

The introduction of the Greek and Roman culture into the church brought a lot of baggage that the Apostles tried to prevent. But eventually as they became the majority, this mindset along with the idea of hell and other thing came into the church. A good history to read about this is "history of dogma" by Alfred Harnack. It's seven volumes so it might take a while.
---willa5568 on 6/13/11

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Samuel, Historian Will Durant observed: 'Christianity did not destroy paganism, it adopted it... From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity.'

In the book 'Egyptian Religion', Siegfried Morenz notes- 'The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians... Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.'

Edward Gibbons 'History of Christianity', says- 'The pure Deism of the first Christians... was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.'
---David8318 on 6/12/11

The Egyptian trinity was Isis,Horus and Set. "IHS"
Some churches display this as "Iesus Hominum Salvador" (Jesus saviour)
More modern ones "In His Service", It still stems from pagan gods!
The Colossus of Rhodes was a statue of the sun god Helios,with points radiating from the head (same as the Statue of Liberty)
In many churches halos are still significant in Christian art, a holdover from sun worship!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/11

To one of the four nations / kingdoms of the bible has satan given his power.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
---francis on 6/11/11


SATAN'S SERVANTS are like the PIED PIPER. They are going around the world blowing Satan's horn and leading people straight to hell.
---Rob on 6/8/11

I totaly agree. Deception began in the garden, and we see 2 Thess deception is still with us, and we know in the final end the Beast will use it,those who believe the false prophet, and many will be deceived to take his mark. Those who willingly take his mark have been brainwashed already to take it.

He is coming with lying signs and wonders. Many today believe lying signs and wonders, from the many anti-christs with us now .
---kathr4453 on 6/12/11

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Samuel, there is much written about Plato's philosophy of 'metaphysics' and 'nature and substance' and how this influenced infamous Early Church Fathers such as Origen and Augustine of Hippo.

You have already pointed out Plato's influence over these church fathers regarding the erroneous 'immortal soul' teaching of which Christendom can thank Origen for introducing from pagan Greek tradition.

Being strongly influenced by Plato's ideas about the soul, Origen 'built into Christian doctrine the whole cosmic drama of the soul, which he took from Plato,'- theologian Werner Jaeger. Consequently, Origen shifted the earthly blessings of the Millennium to the spiritual realm. (I'll comment on Christendoms Hellenic trinity in my next post)
---David8318 on 6/12/11

// Replacement of the Geneva Bibles and King James Bibles with newer unholy and corrupt bibles.

Interesting that most of the criticism leveled against the more accurate and modern translations of the Bible are much the same as against the King James Bible when it was first published.

All studies have proven that people gain much more insight into what the Scripture is telling us thru a modern version than that of the olde King James.
---leej on 6/12/11

There's a prophesy in scripture concerning the great delusion. This is when christians who think they are christians, but are not. This has been a fault of denominational churches - each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. They have watered down God's word, preaching "feeling" good stories. They teach the knowledge of God, but denying his true power.

The christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle, not a once a week pep talk. The ultimate commandment, LOVE, is a verb, not a noun. Do an online KJV bible search for the words "one another," "each other," "comfort," and "encourag" and actively apply what you have learned daily.
---Steveng on 6/12/11

1) Replacement of the Geneva Bibles and King James Bibles with newer unholy and corrupt bibles.
2) Weaker vessels and ungodly sinners disobediently preaching blasphemy.
3) The condemned fleecing the flock of their money, and lying by saying the flock is robbing God when in fact the condemned whom demand money from the parishoners are indeed the robbers eternally cut off from God.
---Eloy on 6/11/11

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David8318, I believe you are very wrong in what you say. In fact what you say can be call heretical. We all know that people can recite the creeds flawlessly and make a "A" in theology courses while living godless lives. We can affirm a sound theology and live an unsound life. Samuel is correct, we are saved by Grace through faith.
Jesus said, "you search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life" They search for eternal life, but were not willing to trust its only source, (John 5:24).
---Mark_V. on 6/11/11

God did not beget a Son because He needed help,no, but to share the joy of creating!
How about a ship with 3 captains? or a country with 3 presidents?
So the fundamentalists use the analogy of a person being a father,son and grandfather all at the same time! Fine, but if the father dies so do the other 2,.... not even close!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/11

I believe people are saved by Grace alone. That our works show our love of GOD and love of others. Ephesians 2 I John.

It is true that a false doctrine that condones living in sin and a decision to live in sin will lead to being lost. But as in Matthew 21 through 25 I do not see salvation by knowledge.

Now I have read Plato and know many follow his points on the immortal soul. But could you please direct me to his trinity doctrine. Also Babylon gods in my memory were not a trinity.

Some hindus teach their main three gods are a type of trinity but that is not a main stream of their teaching.
---Samuel on 6/11/11

Samuel, people who were deprived of accurate knowledge due to circumstances beyond their control, I believe the principle at Acts 17:30 will apply to them- 'God has overlooked the times of such ignorance'.

However, we are not ignorant of the facts today. There is a clear link between Christendoms triune-trinity and Babylons triads through the philosophical teachings of Plato. It was Plato who gave trinitarians the formulae to worship not 3 God's, but 'three in one'- which has always been the trinitarian unscriptural mantra.

There are more unscriptural teachings in Christendom, I could only fit in 2. But yes, people are saved by correct doctrine- John 17:3, 1 Tim.2:4. The trinity doctrine is the most damaging of all false doctrines.
---David8318 on 6/10/11

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David I do not believe people are saved by correct doctrine. Do you? I mean you say that even if a person loves GOD with all their heart and they are wrong about two points then they are lost. So where does grace come in?

I do not believe that the wicked burn in hell for all eternity. But I do believe the Bible teaches the trinity. So to you I have lost my salvation for not agreeing with you?

Millions down through history had no access to the Bible but followed GOD the best they knew how. So you believe GOD will reject them for not having enough knowledge?
---Samuel on 6/10/11

You don't need to look very hard to see how Satan had infiltrated the church. Take the New Age movement - they had the references of the blood of Christ removed from most hymnals and the Bible states that without the shedding of blood there is no sacrifice - in this case, it was Christ's blood that was shed.. Some churches are nothing more than social clubs with tax exemption, they simply preach be good to your fellow man. (There's nothing wrong with this if done in conjunction with a gospel message but they stop with just being good to fellow man.) What in compounding this problem is it's the leadership of the churches that are doing this, and leading the congregation astray.
---wivv on 6/10/11

Satan is found in churches who promote-

1. The trinity- Babylons triad + Plato = Christendoms triune trinity. One cannot be a trinitarian and a Christian as it is a contradiction in terms.

2. Hellfire doctrine- from satans pagan Egyptian and Babylonian empires. Jesus never used the word or taught 'hell'. Burning people in any manner is detestable to God- Jeremiah 7:31, and contrary to the Bible's view of the condition of the dead- Eccs.9:5,10

Both the pagan trinity and hellfire doctrines originate in pagan Egypt and Babylon, and form the backbone of the modern 'Babylon the Great'- the world empire of false religion in line for destruction by Almighty God- Rev.18:1-4.
---David8318 on 6/10/11

Pride and arrogance....same ol' song,new day.....
---kevin5443 on 6/9/11

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Satan has infiltrated right from Eden. His specialties are lies!
72 virgins if you blow yourself up! makes one shake their heads ,how seemingly intelligent people can believe this stuff!
Or,our loving God tortures humans (like, forever).
Or no one actually dies.
or God has 3 heads.(called the "Godhead")
How seemingly intelligent people can swallow this is incredible!
Mat.6.9 Jesus said "Our Father"(yours and mine, who is in heaven) was He lying? Denying that "He" was God?
---1st_cliff on 6/9/11


SATAN'S SERVANTS are like the PIED PIPER. They are going around the world blowing Satan's horn and leading people straight to hell.
---Rob on 6/8/11

By destroying the family through divorce and adultery.
---Trish on 6/7/11

In this Fallen World, there will be problems. But, Jesus has overcome the world! John 16:33.

GOD is REDEMPTIVE. Like for the family. However, we must live with the Consequences or Repercussions.

I believe that GOD wants us to follow HIS: Ways, Plans, Commands, etc. wherever possible. Like with Marriage and the Family.

Sadly, many people today -- including Christians -- have Chosen / Decided to do things THEIR way. Satan has them: Deceived, Blinded, Full of Pride, etc.

Many of the current problems in the USA, and around the world, can be traced back to following OUR own ways, instead of GOD's. Very sad.
---Sag on 6/8/11

n has "subtle" Better than You Attitude" Now dominate the church' n general. What happened to Respect Our Leaders & prayer & Quiet while Pastor(s) or Quest Speaker is talking! AnotherWhat happen to love & forgiveness? "christians" do not even wr.There are some who just abhore to let God spirit move n therefore ..Perhaps a word or a phrase or some song God is there to set another "free from spiritual bondage".... And this other person keep noise or interruptions..Bickering! These all tactics so others we lose out on the polishing up! God wants to do! These intruders lead by Satan draw all kinds of deceptions..We must be Carefull!
---ELENA on 6/7/11

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By destroying the family through divorce and adultery.
---Trish on 6/7/11

Any time an unkind thought finds a place to rest, any time one person is discussed without being present, any time one puts himself in higher esteem than his neighbor, Satan is satisfied.
---Deb on 6/8/11

Satan is very wise. He usually does not attack in large scale but in sneaky, quiet ways. In the US it is more of passive and lazyness. If satan can stop you from spreading the gossip or limiting your potential he wins.
---Scott on 6/8/11

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