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Right Medicine For Child

What do you feel is the best medicine for an unruly child?
Therapy and drugs or correction and punishment or a combination of the two?

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 ---paul on 6/10/11
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John-- Yes, I'm sure other things are related...as is usually the case. Trisomy 21 was one of the first that could be identified by actual chromosome placement. And the characteristics of Downs are so distinctive, they can hardly be confused with anything else.
---Donna66 on 6/14/11


Donna66, you're correct Trisomy 21 (where there are 3 Chromosome21 instead of the 2 (which is normal)).

But their are more components to this and similar defects that are now being found (Mainly on Chromosomes 7 & 12).

Also it is believed that other Genes (Possibly on the additional strand) on Chromosome 21 may be somewhat altered(not proven/Conjecture).
---John on 6/13/11


While it's true that many mental problems (ADD/ADHD, depression, etc.) may be over-diagnosed, that may cause problems for those who are falsely so diagnosed, but there remain many for whom such diagnoses are, indeed, accurate. Dismissing legitimate diagnoses does an equal disservice to those who have such problems, even more so than false positives do to those do not.
---StrongAxe on 6/14/11


John-- Ok, maybe I'm out of date, but I was taught Downs is trisomy 21.That was the technical name for years. I have a texbook with several highly magnified photos of the extra chromosome or part chromosome. The knowledge base in medicine does change over the years, however.

But I can't believe I'm wrong in assuming "genius" involves, not ONE gene, but a combination of genes ALL expressing superior abilities. Even the word "genius" is not a scientific term, but a numerical score on a variety of somewhat subjective tests.
---Donna66 on 6/13/11


So you're a geneticist.

Good for you. So what?

What do you expect us to do? Roll over and assume that everything you are saying is always correct?

\\Because of prejudice from all you "G-d Loving Christians" who will immediately exploit it/say hateful things like (Hey Genius!/Mr. Genius!/etc) Substitute RETARD for GENIUS see your Hate/Prejudice.
---John on 6/12/11\\

Why do I get the distinct feeling that you are projecting, John?

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 6/13/11




G-d bless you all for your response!

I avoided this subject because of the connotation to the word genius. I wish there was another terminology. I was afraid of getting an ignorant statement (i.e.."Does this mean you're trying to pass yourself off as a genius, John?" Cluny.) I.Q. is no more an attribute than brown eyes. It's just an abnormal gene expression. There are truly severe expressions(Sickle Cell Anemia, CF)

Donna66(Thanks) I was referring more to a Gene (CHRM2), a neuronal receptor gene on chromosome 7. It regulates the rate for impute that effect both Down syndrome/Genius. No one knows why it sometimes expresses itself rapidly/ other times slowly. It does not seem to be the extra Chromosome 21 that causes it.
---John on 6/13/11


John---You seem to have done a good job compensating for your dyslexia! I've never noticed any more errors in your posts than anybody else's. (And I usually notice) So if you hadn't told us you were dyslectic... I'd never have guessed.

But, just out of curiosity (and unrelated to the question)... since Downs syndrome is trisomy 21 aren't all normal people at least one, or part of one, chromosome away from Down's?
---Donna66 on 6/13/11


//My opinion (and that of some experts) is that ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed and over-treated.//

Some think that "depression" is too. Not singling you out, but it is ironic how clinically established conditions like depression and slysdexia are treated differently.

ADD/ADHD is simply caused by low blood flow to the extremities. thus, the attention deficit is caused because the brain is half asleep. the hyperactivity is an attempt to keep the brain awake. the main problem is impulse control.

the condition is over diagnosed and the treatment should be headed by behavior modification aided by decreasingly amounts of medication in adults for the most part.
---aka on 6/13/11


\\I SUFFER FROM DYSLEXIA! A disease that affects Geniuses(NOT/a/gift). Being Genius is only 1 Gene expression from being Retarded(Down syndrome(PKU). Both Abnormalities have similar symptoms.\\

Does this mean you're trying to pass yourself off as a genius, John?

Your spelling errors I've noticed are not typical of dyslexics, but rather of people who simply don't know how to spell. There IS a difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/11


Paul:

Unless you specifically use another application (like Word) to compose replies, you won't normally get spell-checking of replies, even if you use a PC.


John:

I'm sorry that you suffer from dyslexia. That (and posting from a phone, as paul mentioned, would make spelling errors easier.) I would certainly not mean to make light of either situation.

I think that in the past, people considered left-handedness, dyslexia, ADD/ADHD, and other mental conditons as all being merely discipliary problems. Only now, with our better understanding of how the body and mind works, we understand that many of these things are not under the control of those who suffer from them.
---StrongAxe on 6/13/11




I see this place seems to breed negativity. Perhaps one should try to understand what a person is saying instead of being superficial in regards to spelling and grammar.

If one's purpose is to degrade and make another feel like cr*p then perhaps they should refrain from using the keyboard to ultimately make an *ss out of themselves.

What do you think???
---poopsey on 6/13/11


WOW, John

Sorry you have encountered such insensitivity here, I post sometimes from my phone which has no spell check and I to have been grammatically battered.

I don't take it personal though typically it is a diversionary tactic derived to redirect the focus off their deflated point.

I suppose some of you are drinking water from your knee because your foot is so far into your mouth.

Paul
---paul on 6/12/11


I also noticed five spelling/grammar errors.
StrongAxe

I GOING TO ADDRESS THIS ONCE/FOR ALL!!!
Especially to The ever Pompous/Arrogant Cluny.

I SUFFER FROM DYSLEXIA! A disease that affects Geniuses(NOT/a/gift). Being Genius is only 1 Gene expression from being Retarded(Down syndrome(PKU). Both Abnormalities have similar symptoms.

Dyslexia occurs because my brain is accelerated. I do NOT see the grammar/spelling even checking it several times. The brain is too fast/cannot pause.

NEVER MENTIONED IT...
Because of prejudice from all you "G-d Loving Christians" who will immediately exploit it/say hateful things like (Hey Genius!/Mr. Genius!/etc) Substitute RETARD for GENIUS see your Hate/Prejudice.
---John on 6/12/11


Was Cluny's post meant for me? He didn't address it to anyone in particular.
These blogs are open to anyone. If one had to qualify as an "expert", there would be few posts on anything!

A scientist involved in brain chemistry is not more qualified to opine than someone in a position to observe children with and without the disorder....teacher, nurse or parent. Non-scientific people can be well informed, too. They, too, may have access to, and the education to understand, professional literature.

Parents who have children with these disorders should consult the best authentic experts in the field they can find offline.
---Donna66 on 6/12/11


John:

So you are a geneticist. Does your discipline teach that ADD/ADHD is not real? If so, can you point us at some documents or papers that assert this?

I also noticed five spelling/grammar errors in your most recent post. While there is nothing wrong with that per se (and I make them myself from time to time), it bespeaks a lack of precision, and I would expect scientics in general would need to be precise.

Years ago I worked with a woman who was a technical writer. Her business card had four spelling/grammar errors on it, which in itself would call into question her ability to write precisely.
---StrongAxe on 6/12/11


Are you a trained psychologist, psychotherapist, or biochemist (or even prophet),
---StrongAxe on 6/11/11

I AM GENETICISTS!
Actively researching Neurological disorders, Monoclonal Antibodies(Cancer) and Brain implants. As well as working on Natural Phytochemical Treatments for various Cancers

DOES THAT QUALIFY ME STRANGEAXE!!!

Donna66, Ignore Clunys silly post. Hes off on some tangent on a different subject completely. Its why I did not waste my time answering him.
---John on 6/12/11


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Cluny--- There are lots of childhood behavior disorders of different causation. Fetal alcohol syndrome is one thing, manic-depression another...the child you mentioned probably had both.

ADD/ADHD is one that is diagnosed all the time by lay people... primarily teachers and parents. Doctors sometimes go along and prescribe drugs, (which should be a last resort) because A.they don't know the child well enough to judge B.the parent is desperate and/or C.they don't have time to do an exhaustive neurological exam.

I have seen some children helped by these medications but others seem to deteriorate.

My opinion (and that of some experts) is that ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed and over-treated.
---Donna66 on 6/11/11


I know of no magic remedy for unruly, inattentive children.
But drugs should be the LAST resort, instead of the FIRST, as they so often are. Why are other approaches (excluding harsh physical punishment) so seldom offered?

Children are especially sensitive to medications. And the ones used are serious psychotopic drugs. Not ALL children improve with such treatment. I've seen some deteriorate rather alarmingly.
I've also seen some families resist pressure, say NO to drugs, yet their children, now grown, are happy, well adjusted and successful in their careers.
---Donna66 on 6/11/11


"What do you feel is the best medicine for an unruly child?" Preventive.
"Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it." Pro 22:6
"Do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord." Eph 6:4
"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, The rod of correction will drive it far from him." Pro 22:15
"Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them." Pro 13:24 (NLT)
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
Love your children enough to correct them quickly, If you have failed to do that, pray.
---josef on 6/12/11


There is an over-use of medicine to correct a child's behavior. It's often times used as a first means of controlling an unruly child because it doesn't infringe on the time of the parents. It takes time, love and discipline to correct a child. Punishment is usually a last resort if you are talking about corporal punishment and only used after tempers have gotten back to normal. Taking away privileges may be more effective, things as limited use of a cell phone, watching TV, etc. Keep in mind, you are looking for long term results, so stay your ground and be patient. You'll be glad you did when the child is in their teens or older.
---wivv on 6/11/11


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An ADD/ADHD child will not improve with punishment. Kind correction,like a teachers method of puting her hand gently on the child's shoulder to get their attention,helps more than spanking. It isn't a discipline problem but a physical disability. Their problem isn't meaness but a short attention span,some worse than others. Medication helps their mind slow down so they can grasp whats happening and what they are learning. It is genetic and runs in families passing from one generation to the next. If a child has diabetes he gets medicine for that. After a child is tested by doctors and found to have ADHD,a medical disability,its no different treating them with medicine too and it helps. One child went from failing to A & B grades.
---Darlene_1 on 6/11/11


micha9344:

ADD/ADHD is not a symptom. It is a diagnosis. It tends to cause several different, but related, symptoms, including inability to focus, difficulty in completing tasks, etc. If someone has one or two such symptoms, it is probably not ADD/ADHD. But if someone has many or most of these symptoms, ADD/ADHD is very likely. This is also true for most psychiatric disorders.

In the very same way, there are certain symptoms people tend to associate with demonic possession. If someone has one or two of these, it's probably not demonic. But if many of the symptoms are present, those who are in the know would confidently say "that person has a demon".
---StrongAxe on 6/11/11


discipline. ADD and those similar so called "disorders" are the most ridiculous assessments(which is based primarily on what the parent, and forgive me if there are any on here, the lazy teachers in the schools[not all of coarse]say) I have ever heard of. I remember growing up, even in school if you acted out of line the "wooden oar"(paddle) would be given as a "medication" for these "disorders", and were quite effective. The problem though today is lack of consistency even if it's timeout, which can be effective if that is what you choose. Decide the means by which the child will be "lead back to the narrow path" and be consistent with it.
---willa5568 on 6/11/11


A bigger ruler is the best medicine for an unruly child.
---Eloy on 6/11/11


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My mom cured my ADD instantly with a belt! ---John on 6/10/11
*****

AMEN JOHN!!!

Discipline is LOVE ...instead today's parents incessantly spoil indulge pamper their children ...inept parents simply CAUSE unruly children don't want or have time to discipline - discipline takes effort work persistence it is HOW one molds guides raises a responsible child ...drugs = no work quick fix

then they run to Doctor's demanding drugs to "calm them down"

the drugs simply zone their children out so they are living breathing zombies

truth is CHILDREN today RULE their parents as prophesy accurately predicted

parents are blinded to reality that THEY are the reason their children are unruly
---Rhonda on 6/11/11


my daughter Amber was ADHD and hyperactive as well the first 3 yrs she was on retalin which only doped her up but then i took her off of it we got in church when she was 12 and after she recieved the Holy Ghost she was a changed person she was more relaxed and began to change but later on she got on drugs and alcohol i lost her to an accidental overdose at the age of 23........don't ever let the school tell you to put your child on a drug to control them.For a child with these problems lots of love communication and try some fresh pressed flax oil in orange juice daily.
---Lea on 6/11/11


And yet if ADD is from training in one, stress in another, or brain tumor in still another, wouldn't ADD itself be a blanket statement?
---micha9344 on 6/11/11


John:

Are you a trained psychologist, psychotherapist, or biochemist (or even prophet), that puts you in an informed position to accurately judge whether ADD/ADHD is, in fact, a disease, or merely something made up?

You may be able to speak from your own experience, not from anyone else's. Wandering attention may be caused by lack of discipline in one person, and ADD in another - just as a headache may be caused by stress in one person, or a brain tumor in another. Unless you examine someone in depth, you cannot make a blanket assessment.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/11


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A good smacking has helped to get my attention, but example has fed me with what is right, I would say. You can't discipline and control someone to be right in real love and be really loving > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

I suppose > ones won't let their kids help them, when kids are so young but willing. So, the kids learn not to be so eager to help, while being babysat by toys and TV and video games and kids their own age. When they learn English, parents think they can just tell tell tell them what to do. But taking time to do personal sharing while doing chores together can teach the child that responsible activities is a love thing.
---Bill_willa6989 on 6/11/11


Ha! I tend to agree with John about ADD! All children have short attention spans. Maybe adults (particularly over-stressed teachers) have NCBI...Normal Childish Behavior Intolerance. Most important is the fact that no one can be sure yet of the long-term effects of these drugs given to children!
All "unruly" children are not that way for the same reasons. Finding the cause of their behavior is important.

But ALL children, compliant or unruly, need love and CONSISTENT limits.
---Donna66 on 6/10/11


\\So instead they decide to invent ANOTHER Pseudo disease called "Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD/ADHD). \\

Once more John shows his great erudition.

I know a couple who adopted the son of an alcoholic mother and did their best to nurture him in the fear and love of Christ. All during his childhood, he had trouble with violence and rebellion. They did all in their power, and nothing worked.

Finally, in his late teens, it was determined that this poor boy was manic/depressive, probably related to fetal alcohol syndrome. The right medicine, and he became a changed person.

Alas, he died in a traffic accident (not his fault) in young adulthood, but by God's mercy had a few good years.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/10/11


The best medicine for any child is love.
---KarenD on 6/10/11


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GOOD HOLY PARENTS! WHO GIVE THEIR CHILD TO G-D TO RAISE!

Drugs are for the Psuedo Moms who prefer to have a BMW than a child, but needed one for their resume'.

It's also for Liberals, who regretted not aborting "IT" and wish they could have infantcide legalized.

So instead they decide to invent ANOTHER Pseudo disease called "Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD/ADHD).

So now you can dope your kid and have the Drugs and The Government raised them for you until they become...Doped Adults!

My mom cured my ADD instantly with a belt!


---John on 6/10/11


Deuteronomy 27:16 has one view on the question.
---John.usa on 6/10/11


It's hard to tell.

A neighbor had a particularly rebellious daughter, especially through her childhood and teens. Only more than a decade after her husband died, she discovered to her sorrow that her husband had been sexually abusing her daughter--and BOTH her daughters thought the mother knew it and was enabling it.

In retrospect, this poor child was showing all the classical symptoms of such abuse--but who knew back in the '60's?

Have you tried talking to the child? And how old is the child to find out what the problem might be?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/10/11


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