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Old Testament Salvations

How did the Old Testament people get saved since Jesus had not been introduced?

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 ---judy on 6/10/11
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Ruben, I appreciate you taking that verse seriously. Jesus clearly tells us, those who eat His flesh and drink His blood HE WILL raise up in the last day.

So what we need to do, so we don't take any verses out of context is find every verse having to do with the resurrection..our resurrection.

When I take all those verses together, I comme up with this. To eat His flesh means to be crucified with Christ, and raised up together with Him a New Creature. Now teh question comes in, what about Abel or Job, Job professing he will be resurrected and will see Christ in the flesh. Did Job literally eat and drink Jesus? NO! But Job sacrificed didn't he, as all who had faith in the OT did pointing to Christ and his death and resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Ruben, here is another issue. There are NO MIRACLES preformed by Jesus or any Apostles that we cannot SEE. A blind man could see and testify. A lame man could walk, and we could see it. Demons cast out were witnessed..however when you claim a miracle has happened turning a cracker into Jesus Flesh, and wine into blood, who can see this?

---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Go back to Luke 24:35:

"And they told what things were done in the way, and how they knew him in the breaking of the bread "
---Ruben on 6/20/11


MarkV, again you use the tern alive TO Christ. However I am ALIVE because I am IN CHRIST, and raised up together with Him a New Creature.

He is who gave me LIFE. It's because I am IN HIM and He is IN ME that I am a begotten Son through Jesus Christ and Born Again into the family of God. My New Birth/Born Again is the firstfruits, giving me the privledge to say Abba Father.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Ruben, here is another issue. There are NO MIRACLES preformed by Jesus or any Apostles that we cannot SEE. A blind man could see and testify. A lame man could walk, and we could see it. Demons cast out were witnessed..however when you claim a miracle has happened turning a cracker into Jesus Flesh, and wine into blood, who can see this?

When Jesus turned water into Wine, all drank the wine and were in awe.

A Miracle is not one that one can faith into existence anyway, and then have no PROOF that it happened.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Kathr, I never mentioned Rebirth. Or what is called born again. I was talking about Spiritual baptism. Rebirth is when the Holy Spirit brings spiritual life in you. That is an act of God which is by grace and you don't know when that happens only that from that day on you feel alive to Christ, and a conviction in your heart and want very much want Christ in your life and ask for forgiveness. That rebirth comes with faith and repentance. Once a person is alive to Christ they can now ask for forgiveness and when he does, he not only is baptized into one body in Christ but is sealed forever with Him in spirit and for eternity. You do not have the work of the Holy Spirit in order.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11




MarkV, I am so glad you finally see the Holy Spirit is Given AFTER you repent and not before.

Praise God for that!

But the Holy Spirit is our teacher, comforter and the one pointing TO Christ and never speaks of Himself.

John states , as many as receive HIM, that is CHRIST, the WORD who became Flesh to THEM gave he the power to become the Sons of God. So one must RECEIVE Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is GIVEN to those who repent.

You simply cannot do away with the Trinity.

We are Hidden with God, IN CHRIST, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

And His SEED is in us. The SEED is Christ.

Were they not told in Galatains..UNTIL THE SEED CAME, who is Christ.


---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


kathr4453* Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 11

Jesus also declared " the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world."
In other words This bread is my Flesh, you are saying that his Flesh was also symbolic!

kathr4453* Worshiping a wafer carries the same consequence for Catholics as worshiping a golden calf did for the Israelites.

I'll take my chances, after all Jesus say "take, and eat it, this is my body"
---Ruben on 6/20/11


The comment by---kathr4453 on 6/20/11 presents an insightful, profound, indefensible, dilemma for the teaching of transubstantiation by the Roman Catholic Church!!!
---mima on 6/20/11


kathr4453* A serious problem for Catholics who insist on a literal interpretation must realize that after they have consumed the physical body of Christ, it then decomposes during the digestive cycle. This goes against Gods promise to never let His Holy Son see decay **Acts 2:27.

Even more serious problem for those non-Catholic is Jesus knowing this:
"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man,you shall not have life in you."

" " For my flesh is meat indeed "
---Ruben on 6/20/11


In the O.T. people were saved if they followed the law of God (Torah - 10 Commandments). Since NO one can keep all of God's commands, then Jesus (who is God) had to come and die and raise from the dead. He is the ONLY one that has kept ALL of God's law and IS God's law made flesh (John 1:1). Since sin = lawlessness (breaking God's law) (1 John 3:4), then Jesus was the ONLY one that could save us because ALL have sinned (broken God's law) (Romans 3:10-18,23).
---Leslie on 6/20/11




Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 11

A serious problem for Catholics who insist on a literal interpretation must realize that after they have consumed the physical body of Christ, it then decomposes during the digestive cycle. This goes against Gods promise to never let His Holy Son see decay **Acts 2:27.

In conclusion, it is clear from the Scriptures that the words referring to the eating and drinking of the body and blood of Jesus are to be understood in a spiritual or symbolic sense and not literally. Worshiping a wafer carries the same consequence for Catholics as worshiping a golden calf did for the Israelites.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


The Bible does not have to tell us that the divine Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit is the same God, we should already know that since it one of the essentials of the Christian faith.
While lost we were separated from God, but now we are in the presence of God all the time through the divine Spirit.
"For David did not ascend into heaven, but he says himself, "The Lord said to my Lord, sit at My right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool." And when they heard this, they were cut to the heart. Peter then said to them, Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


That is why the doctrine of Christ turning to a piece of bread is false.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11

Then you are saying Jesus was wrong!

" This is my body"
"This bread is my flesh"

Why would Paul tell us in 1 Cor 11:29 "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord." How can we be 'guilty' of a symbol?
---Ruben on 6/20/11


MarkV, again Galatians 2:20 does not say I was crucified with the Holy Spirit, nor does it say I live by the faith of the Holy Spirit in me.

And Paul clearly said JESUS CHRIST is in you.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


What Calvinist here are doing is bringing the Truth of God. People do not want to know the Truth. They rather fight with all they have and make God a helpless, impotent god, who they can control, and bring Him to their own level.

The God of Scripture is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Holy, Righteous, His goodness and His justice. His sovereignty and His will can never be frustrated by man, no matter how much they try. We can be sure that nothing happens over which He is not in control. He at least 'permits' whatever happen to happen, He chooses to permit them in that He always has the power and right to intevene and prevent the actions and events of this world. He never stops been God, for He never changes.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


Oldtimer, only the Truth of God's Word will attrack unbelievers to Christianity. You said,
" There's a lot of lost people out there and if we don't stand for the truth and expose these people so they don't contaminate those poor souls,"

Those poor souls are already contaminated. They do not know the Truth. They cannot get more contaminated then they already are.
Exposing false teachers is important because the Truth is what God sends out, and it never returns void. It accomplishes that for which He send it. And only the Truth of God's Word saves through faith.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


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Kathr, you always say, "markv said" when I did not say such things. You have a grip and just won't let go.
Here is what I said about Jesus not been in you. When Jesus ascended He was taken up in a visible, bodily form, He will return from heaven "in like manner." Nothing could be more plain. Hyper-preterist have responded to the argument by denying that Christ ever truly ascended into heaven in bodily form. And when you say that He is in you, you contradict what the word of God tells us. It is His Spirit in a relationship that is in you, His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. His body is not in you, for He is in a bodily form. That is why the doctrine of Christ turning to a piece of bread is false.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


//Is there anything here that would attract someone to Christianity?
---Donna66 on 6/19/11//

Good question, it would be an extremely short list.
---michael_e on 6/20/11


Donna: Very profound! It would seem that a rational group of adult Christians would discuss their faith from a common point of reference - say, the Bible - rather than assuming the worst of each other and descending into childish name-calling and denomination-bashing.

We should each be able to explain why we believe what we believe from the Bible alone, without fear of a wolf pack attack.
---jerry6593 on 6/20/11


shira3877---Me Too! ---
I believe in salvation by faith alone, in Christ alone, not by works of the flesh. Likewise, I believe it is the spirit of Christ within, that leads us toward sanctification.
(BTW I'm beginning to wonder if all the "Calvinism" arguments here aren't simply a tool of the enemy to further divide believers)
---Donna66 on 6/19/11

shira3877 also stating she was not a calvinist, and you donna66 said you weren't either, nor am I, I totally agree here with you that calvinists here are causing division among the body of Christ. I know markv clearly stated the Spirit of God DOES NOT indwell us and also stated that Jesus Christ is not REALLY in us either.

That is a real division maker.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


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Kathr 2: what you have done is localized the Holy Spirit to one place, in the heart of believers, but the Holy Spirit is God and He is everywhere at all times, He is Omnipresent. He cannot be localized. But under the New ministry the Holy Spirit, He is said to be in the believer empowering them to do their ministry for the Lord. He is not really inside since He is Spirit. Jesus Christ is also said to be in the believer, but He is in a relationship, for He is at the right hand of the Father. -Mark_V. on 6/1/11

Just so we know WHY there are arguments among Calvinism and others.

But then to DENY you even said it, calling names....just adds evil to evil.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/11


Craig, When I say, not knowing the God of Scripture, I mean that when you or others give opinions or interpretations concerning God, many times you oppose who God is. You might be saved by Christ works on the Cross but it doesn't mean you made the effort to learn about God, because if you had, your interpretations would not be going against the nature, character or attributes of God. When a person is born of God, he should want to know everything they can about Him. But how many do you know that do? Not very many. Have you taken a course on His nature and character? How many have? When God says "I will do all that I please" and you say contrary to what He said, it tells me you don't know the God of Scripture and pretend as if you do.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/11


Oldtimer-- A lot of people are taking stands against false teachers here! And almost every doctrine has been called "false" by somebody.
I don't know how any lost person reading these blogs could be anything but confused trying to figure out what's false and what's true.
Not only that, but the Christians who talk about "love" and "maturity in Christ", one day, are slandering and name-calling like unruly children the next.
And they do it without shame before the whole world.

Is there anything here that would attract someone to Christianity?
---Donna66 on 6/19/11


It's far worse to be lukewarm and not take a stand against false teachers and those who bear false witness. There's a lot of lost people out there and if we don't stand for the truth and expose these people so they don't contaminate those poor souls, who will?
---Oldtimer on 6/19/11


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If you are accused of not knowing the God of Scripture, then you area accused of not knowing God, and if you don't know God you are accused of not knowing His Son, and if you don't know His Son you are accused of not being not saved.

Or, you are accused of being like Simon the Sorsorer.

At the Salem witch trials,
we have Calvinists accusing other Calvinists of Witchcraft, when actually the ones doing the accusing bringing death to their brothers and sisters in Christ were MURDERERS of saved people. The accusers were the ones on the witch hunt of innocent people!

---kathr4453 on 6/19/11


Oh for heavens sake! Can't we just accept that people are who they say they are! All these accusations of people taking on other names to post their beliefs seems very childish (and not very Christian) to me.

If the content is of interest,I will respond to whomever has their name on the post. I don't give a fig who YOU think REALLY wrote it!
---Donna66 on 6/18/11


Mark, when you judge someone who disagrees with your doctrine as "not knowing the God of scripture" that is exactly what you are saying. That they are unsaved and do not know God.

I don't expect you to own up to that, however, since you can't even own up to being Daniel. When you can learn to be honest with others and yourself maybe then you can see God for who He really is. A loving Father who delights in forgiveness and restoral rather than judgement and condemnation.
---CraigA on 6/18/11


"Of His own will He brought us forth by the Word of Truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures" ( James 1:18.)
It was by His own will. Not our will.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/11

Exactly what I stated on another blog, God predetermined before the foundation of the world to have SONS.

MarkV, don't you understand what firstfruits mean? See the words OF HIS CREATURES???

Meaning those who have HIS DNA through Jesus Christ.

Christ the Firstfruits, THEN those who are HIS at His coming....Read 1st Cor 15. The whole of firstfruits is theNew creature ( IN CHRIST)...not YOUR misrepresentation of firstfruits.

Also look at the OT PATTERN of firstfruits.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/11


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Craig, I never said you were predestined to hell. In fact I thought I was talking to believers. Why would they want to know how they were saved, they don't believe in God. But you supposely do. So again you are wrong.
And yes, it will take an act of God for my son to have faith. Reading His Word has not done it, and he doesn't will to know. He has to be made able and only the Holy Spirit can do that.
So you are wrong in your assessment of what I have been saying. You have got nothing right so far. Here is what God does of His own will,

"Of His own will He brought us forth by the Word of Truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures" ( James 1:18.)
It was by His own will. Not our will.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/11


And now I know youre also a liar. I'm very dissappointed, Mark, that you would stoop so low to try to persuade people to believe in your doctrine.
---CraigA on 6/18/11


When a person reaches a level of higher spiritual enlightenment than the rest but loses all common sense its a sign of brainwashing.

If the other 90% of us who disagree with you are predestined for hell, then why do you continuously try to persuade us to believe what you teach? Its pointless and you don't even see that! We've been predestined for hell and blinded to the truth... just like your child. Nothing you say here is going to change that. Am I right?

You might as well consider us and your child dead.
---CraigA on 6/18/11


Craig, I'm not Daniel but Mark. I do not need to change my name to answer you or Kathr. I don't care who you are or where you come from. Your denial of the Truth is all I care about. When you are ready to ask me a Scriptural question I will answer you, otherwise I don't care if you are Kathr or anyone else. I have seen what she does before and have caught her twice. All you both want to do is make the blogs pertain to you. You disregard the blog question and make it your own. For your own purpose. False teachers have no answers for Scripture so they resort to attacking the person they cannot answer.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/11


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Craig 2, by the way, you don't have to proof anything to me. I'm but one guy on these blogs who answers. I have posted that I love everyone here, but don't agree on many articles of faith they teach. I don't need your phone number, or Kathr. I rather keep my distance from Kathr since she already is consumed with my name that if she hears the sound of my voice it might put her over the edge. I don't want her to go over the edge. I pray to God that He changes her, for I believe only God can change a persons heart. Free will never works.
"For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
---Mark_V. on 6/18/11


Mark, once again, whenever you are ready I am perfectly willing to give you my phone number (if Kathr is willing as well) so we can prove to you that your beliefs are based on paranoia. Don't you feel a bit hypocritical to accuse us of something when you are currently using "Daniel" to agree with yourself (as though the rest of us are too stupid to figure it out)? You should.

We have asked you in the past to simply ask the Lord and you denied the opportunity saying God had more important things to do.
If you were listening to the Spirit in the first place you would know that your claims are nothing but yet another deception that you have fallen under.
---CraigA on 6/18/11


--I wish I could be as patient as Christian
---Daniel on 6/17/11

And there you go typing Christan's name wrong as MARK_V always does.

Would someone who carries "the Truth" with them need to be deceptive and create another blogger name just to agree with yourself? Your doctrine is unraveling and you are becoming desperate to stay in your deception now when there's no need to. Assurance can be found without believing in something that the word of God doesnt teach.

If you can't understand how a man can be saved by grace using his free will to accept Jesus Christ, then why not just ask for help. There are plenty of loving brothers and sisters in Christ here who would be eager to help you out.
---CraigA on 6/18/11


Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

... and for the word of God,...
which is what Jesus was all about, The Word of God.
---Nana on 6/17/11


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2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


For God so loved the World He gave His Only Begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him, recieving Jesus Christ, resulting in Jesus Christ IN YOU, are 100% guaranteed access INTO the Everlasting Covenant. Hebrews 13:20-21, with Romans 8:11-13

Those who falsely preach any other covenant are reprobates.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/11


Craig, you are the image of Kathr, the exact representation, two names one person, great trick.

I wish I could be as patient as Christian or some others, or write as good as he/she does.
---Daniel on 6/17/11


Even the Christian is not exempted from the curse by God Almighty when He declared to Adam "dust you are, dust you shall return". However, the Christian by the grace and mercy of God will not see eternal death in his/her soul and spirit, because of the covenant of eternal life in Jesus Christ through faith (which is a gift of God).

As for the reprobates, who does not fall into this covenant, they are "walking dead", both in the flesh that's to come and in their soul and spirit, hence they preach a false gospel that only serve to deceive and lead others to death.
---christan on 6/16/11


christan, do you mean the consequences of anyone presenting a false gospel is death? Well, aren't they dead already? So there is no consequences for a dead person presenting a dead gospel.

Now we are told that any christian who thinks he is a teacher and falsely teaches will in fact suffer major consequences regardless of whether he thinks his election will get him off the hook.

BE NOT MANY TEACHERS was spoken to christians.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/11


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I know craigA, and ALL have the exact poor grammar issues. So, does that mean all Calvinists are grammatically handicapped, or all having the EXACT same problem with the EXACT words memorized the Institutes of Calvin who HE was grammatically handicapped? I questioned christan about the EXACT bad grammar once too.


Yes donna66, and those things were a pattern after the things in heaven. So Jesus in fact died for ALL the SIN of ALL the people for all time. OR He only Died for the Jews.

1st John tells us, John being that Jew said, not only for our sin...that is the Jews SIN, but for the sin of the whole world...meaning it included Gentiles as well. Or could read not only for ours...those now saved, but for the unsaved as well.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/11


Exit Daniel
Enter Christan

hmm
---CraigA on 6/16/11


kathr4453 -- You are right...ALL the Hebrews.
---Donna66 on 6/16/11


Judy, there's definitely no other way but by grace through faith. And as Leon pointed truthfully, this is clearly taught in Hebrews 11 in detail about the OT saints.

Anyone who teaches that salvation is otherwise apart from the Scripture, which declares: "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9), is presenting to you exactly what the serpent did to our forefather Adam. And the consequence of this is death.
---christan on 6/16/11


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jerry5963-- I agree! The book of Hebrews tells how the blood of bulls and goats did not convey permanent cleansing from sin. It was a temporary solution God provided for those who had faith in the OT. But it needed to be repeated again and again.

---Donna66 on 6/15/11

It was a temporary solution not for those who just had faith, but for ALL of Israel, whether they had faith or not.

That's the wonder of it all. The High priest went into the Holy of Holies for the sin of THE PEOPLE. Doesn't say faithful, or some of the people.

and here too:
Ezekiel 45:22
And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/11


Of couse the saved are "lucky" in the meaning of being fortunate. And of course their salvation has not been earned.

The unsaved of course are much less fortunate, and to heap coals on their head, their punishment is not earned, any more than the saved have earned their salvation.

For each have behaved exactly as God has made them behave (since God controls absolutely everthing)

Where is the disobedience when the person beahves as God has ordained. Would a just God punish someone for behaving as God has decreed>
---alan8566_of_UK on 6/16/11


Actually its his resurrection that brings life. It didnt end with his death.
---CraigA on 6/16/11


Blogger, as I can see you never said people were saved by luck. Your words were twisted around. In fact you said,
"You can no more influence the salvation process that you can change the results of a race previously occurred as both are the past. God Chose some and rejected other."
Rev. 13:8, "All who dwell on the earth will worship Him, whose names have not been written in the Book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
The Lord Jesus who died to purchase the salvation of those whom God had chosen was fulfilling an eternal plan. According to God's eternal, electing purpose before Creation, the death of Christ seals the redemption of the elect forever (Acts 2:23, 4:27,28).
---Mark_V. on 6/16/11


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jerry5963-- I agree! The book of Hebrews tells how the blood of bulls and goats did not convey permanent cleansing from sin. It was a temporary solution God provided for those who had faith in the OT. But it needed to be repeated again and again.

But they, like us, needed justification by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Hbr 10:11-12 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man [Jesus] after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,, sat down on the right hand of God,


How wonderful that God is not bound by time as man calculates it.
---Donna66 on 6/15/11


OT saints followed the law. When they died they went to the underworld aka "Abraham's bosom". OT nonbelievers went to the underworld, but they were in the hell side. (Luke 16:19-21)
When Jesus died He went to hell & preached the gospel to the OT saint & they got born-again. When He resurrected they went up to heaven while nonbelievers remained in hell.(Matthew 27:52-53)
---Rickey on 6/15/11


Judy: Have you never heard of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8)?

The OT saints will be saved the same way as us NT saints - by the blood sacrifice of Jesus. They looked forward to the cross - we look back to it. That's the only difference.
---jerry6593 on 6/15/11


Those who are chosen are the luckiest among humanity as they are members of the family of God. And those not chosen are the most pitiful among humanity as they have been rejected my all mighty God as there is nothing they or anyone else can do to change that fact
---Blogger9211 on 6/13/11

blogger9211, here is where you went wrong...

Believers are the LUCKIEST? LUCK, now we are saved by LUCK.

What a load of crap!

Oh I'm SOOOO lucky!!! Well Mr. Lucky, PROVE you are one of the chosen lucky ones who's power ball number just popped to the top!
---kathr4453 on 6/14/11


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\\ but they believed in the Messiah who was to come.\\

"Mssiah" is a late concept in OT thought. It's actually post-exilic. (Of course, this does not make it less true.) You will not find one mentioned in the Torah.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 6/14/11


Obedience, obeying God's word whatsoever he commanded them, if the people followed his instruction they were saved, and if the people refused to follow his instruction they were damned. Just as Abel is known to be righteous, and his brother Cain evil. Mt.25:35 + I Jn.3:12.
---Eloy on 6/14/11


Great answers from Blogger, Samuel, Donna66 and a few others. I could not agree more with each one of you.
Blogger, you got that perfectly correct.
It's God's plan not man's. He is God, man is but sinful.
"But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "why have you made me like this?" Does not the Potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?",
Many here question whether God has that right or not. And they conclude they have their rights over God. Clearly claiming that the flesh can please God. But God says,
"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God"
---Mark_V. on 6/14/11


As God made his choices of who was going to be in is family billions of years ago prior to creation process.. God has total knowledge who would be leave in Christ and who would not and he has made his choices. You can no more influence the salvation process that you can change the results of a race previously occurred as both are the past. God Chose some and rejected other. Those who are chosen are the luckiest among humanity as they are members of the family of God. And those not chosen are the most pitiful among humanity as they have been rejected my all mighty God as there is nothing they or anyone else can do to change that fact
---Blogger9211 on 6/13/11


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Read Zechariah 3:1-7 Here is pictured Grace. Where it is GOD who saves and puts his clothes on us.

They were saved by Grace through faith in the coming Messiah. Yea Donna.

The only person who saved by obeying the laws is JESUS. All the rest of us are sinners. Romans 3
---Samuel on 6/13/11


Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
---TheSeg on 6/13/11


What most call "salvation" is actually what the bible calls "justified".

Romans 4:21-25 tells us that we are justified by being assuerd that what God has promised, He will do it.


Prgressively adding more information as generations passed. It went something like...

I will bring about redemption for sin

Through the tribe of Judah

He will be a descendant of David

Here is what he will say

Here is what he will do

Here is the One I was talking about


"getting saved" came through believing God's promise, regardless of the amount of information God had revealed at the time. Same as now. It's just that now we know who God was talking about
---James_L on 6/12/11


Saved and Lost:
1Corinthians 10:1-5:
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
And did all eat the same spiritual meat,
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
---Nana on 6/13/11


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What Donna said see below.
---Scott on 6/13/11


You might wanna read the book of Hebrews sometime.
---Jasheradan on 6/12/11


Old Testament "saints" believed in Jesus. they didn't know Him by that name, but they believed in the Messiah who was to come. They were saved by faith, just as NT believers are. Jesus' sacrifice for sins was not just for those who came after Him.
---Donna66 on 6/11/11


Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. That means that way back in the OT God was still saving by faith in God whether it be The Father or the Son (for we know now that He who sees the Son sees the Father also and Jesus is God) For they together with the Holy Spirit are one God as it is very plain to see in the NT
In John1:12 We are given power to be sons of God (or saved) by faith alone in God (to be definitive in Jesus) It is written that God chooses us, not us Him.
The Answer is always been the same for there is no shadow of turning with God
God made it known that He is our saviour and Husband in OT In NT Jesus is the same OT God by saying He is our Saviour and Husband and We all are saved by Grace through Faith
---Matthew633 on 6/11/11


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Leon and Francis good and true points both of you.

People were saved by Grace in joining with the chosen people.
---Samuel on 6/11/11


OT Gentiles could be saved by believing in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but not their pagan gods. Elijah (in 1st Kings 18) proved to people that his God, not Baal, was responsive to the cries of people. Elijah called down fire from heaven to burn his sacrifice when their pleas to Baal went unanswered.

Rahab, a Gentile harlot, marveled at miracles of the Hebrew God. She proved her faith in Him by hiding Hebrew spies in the city of Jerico.
(Jos. chap 2 & 6 ). She alone survived the massacre there and was praised in the NT book of Hebrews.
Hbr 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Without knowing Jesus, she and others had faith in God.
---Donna66 on 6/11/11


Judy, most forget that the first "prophetic Gospel" of Christ was introduced to mankind in Genesis 3:15 to show the struggle and its outcome between "your seed" (Satan and unbelievers, who are called the Devil's children in John 8:44) and "Her Seed" (Christ, a descendant of Eve, and those in Him) which began in the garden. In the midst of the curse passage, a message of hope shone forth. The woman's offspring called "He" is Christ, who will one day defeat the Serpent. Satan could only bruise Christ heel (cause Him to suffer) while Christ will bruise Satan's head (destroy him with a fatal blow). That's why there is division between the two children all through history.
---Mark_V. on 6/12/11


Where were the gentile nations in the OT when it came to salvation?
---michael_e on 6/11/11

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

1 Kings 10:1 And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon CONCERNING THE NAME OF THE LORD, she came to prove him with hard questions.
---francis on 6/11/11


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Where were the gentile nations in the OT when it came to salvation?
---michael_e on 6/11/11


Judy: The OT people had been introduced to God. Jesus is God! The OT believers were the very same as NT believers & even believers today.

All believers are linked, in salvation thru Jesus Christ, by one common thread: FAITH!



Please read Hebrews 11.
---Leon on 6/11/11


How did the Old Testament people get saved since Jesus had not been introduced?

By GRACE THROUGH FAITH .
those who lives before Jesus, looked forwardto his death for their sin. Every passover, every sin offering made was a memorial of the salvation that was promised in Genesis 3:15 by the death of the messiah.
The earthly sanctuary was given to show that no matter how much they sinned, there was always enough grace to cover each sin.
Those who believed in the grace of God had the blood of the lamb placed in the sanctuary, a symbol of their sns being covered by the grace / blood of Jesus. they knew just as we do, that when the day of atonement, the day of judgment came, that their sins would be cleansed by Jesus
---francis on 6/11/11


Abraham believed God > Galatians 3:6.

And because Abraham believed God, he therefore put God first > Genesis chapter 22.
---Bill_willa6989 on 6/11/11


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Judy, Cluny is correct. Old Testament saints were saved by Grace through faith. In Heb. 4:1,2 "Therefore, since the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the "Gospel" preached to us, "Just as they did" but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith" speaking of the nation, not some individuals. The Scriptures forsaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham,"all nations will be blessed through you" so those who had faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/11


Salvation as most Christians understand it was unknown during Old Testament times. So no one "got saved" back then in the New Testament sense.
---John.usa on 6/10/11


"Salvation" meant something entirely different in OT thought, as it does among Jews today.

One is saved and redeemed not because of a personal relationship with YHVH, but by being part of the saved, redeemed people.

The problem many American Christians have is projecting a fairly modern Evangelical Christian notion of salvation onto OT texts.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/10/11


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