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Praying In The Spirit Scripture

"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints," Does this Scriptures' reference to praying in the spirit have anything to do with praying in tongues? If not, why a special mention of the spirit?

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 ---mima on 6/21/11
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Jesus kept the law because he was born under the law. Jesus's time on Earth was Old Testament. So after keeping and fulfilling the law he then nailed the law to his cross and thereby set it aside. We are not to gleefully break the 10 Commandments, we are to be guided by them but today they no longer hold their punishing condemning sway over the people. Praise God for what he has done through his son!!!
---mima on 7/1/11


Jerry 2, though God is outside of time, He knows the hours, minutes and seconds in a day since it was Him whom created everything, and no where in Genesis does it state that God started creation on Sunday and rested on Saturday, no matter how much dirt you throw my way. It is you who does not know how much time a day has.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/11


Jerry, Jesus came to save, not to condemn or judge anyone. He never condemned Sunday services. He kept the law only because that was His nature, for He was without sin. So again you are wrong. I'm sure that you cannot provide a passage from the Word of God where it states Jesus condemned anyone for having services on Sunday. Just like you could not provide a passage from Genesis.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/11


Axey: "I also see that yet another blog's limited space has been hijacked by a totally unrelated SDA-vs-non-SDA Sabbath argument. Sigh."

Yeh, I know what you mean. Somehow we got off into the old "God doesn't know how long a day is" argument, and MarkV has to inject his tired "we don't what day of the week it is" rant. I felt compelled to counter him with the truth he could find in any dictionary.
---jerry6593 on 7/1/11


Mark I have never seen where Jerry has 'condemned' those who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath. Certainly he is convinced we should, but can you quote where he has condemned those who think otherwise?
---Warwick on 6/30/11




jerry6593:

Jesus called the Pharisees on their hypocrisy - for their breaking of the sabbath (say, to help an injured animal) while not letting him help an injured human. Both of these are "reasonable" exceptions to the sabbath rule - yet no such exceptions were allowed (i.e. "written in stone" nor in parchment).

I also see that yet another blog's limited space has been hijacked by a totally unrelated SDA-vs-non-SDA Sabbath argument. Sigh.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/11


Axey: "Note that Jesus countered the Pharisees when they were taking the sabbath too seriously, accusing him of breaking it."

Look closer. Jesus kept the Sabbath scrupulously according to the Commandment He had written in stone. He corrected many false, man-made variants of the Sabbath that had been added over the intervening centuries. Consider the fact that Sunday sacredness is a false, man-made variant of the Sabbath that Jesus condemns.
---jerry6593 on 6/30/11


Warwick, I have friends in every denomination. But Jerry condemns others by giving the law and judging others as alot of SDA' do.
Second, you argue with Strongaxe and Alan of the importance of Genesis. I agree with what's written, and no where in Genesis are we told that God said He started creation on any particular day. No where. He provides no passages from Genesis. Now are you right concerning Genesis or not? Every post Jerry puts concerns Saturday Sabbath, including his condemnation against someone who disagrees with Saturday Sabbath, those under Grace. His still under the Law, teaches it, and not the Spirit of the law, and wants everyone back under the Law.
---Mark_V. on 6/30/11


Compared to Jerry some others here seem to have serious doubts about Biblical truth, while still loudly claiming to be Christian.
Some, I believe, are not Christian's ....
---Warwick on 6/28/11

Your arrogance is typical of cemetary(seminary)indoctrination. When you fail to establish a matter clear beyond all doubt....then everyone else's search is a lie and they are not worthy?
Thank GOD for Berean types who do not accept all canned, cloudy and opinionated truths for all truth.
i pray for their searching attitudes....that they will continue to probe vagueness and adopt GOD's witnessed truth with GOD's help.
Ps 18:27For thou wilt save the afflicted people, but wilt bring down high looks.
---Trav on 6/29/11


i like to uncover things that are still hidden...like to link the seemingly unrelated...try to get to the bottom line...and bury things that should remain buried.

the Wind blows were it may...
---aka on 6/28/11

I've noted your search and adoption of sustaining scripture. The dead things should be buried. And will be.
As to the wind.... a stout sail of "scriptural witness" and a firm tiller will harness winds of misdirection.
Psalm 55:8
I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.
---Trav on 6/29/11




jerry6593:

Note that Jesus countered the Pharisees when they were taking the sabbath too seriously, accusing him of breaking it. Note that Jesus said precious little otherwise with regards to observing the sabbath. He must not have considered it very important, considering all the other things he DID speak about at great length.

Mark 2:27
"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"

God created the Sabbath so that we could rest from our work - i.e. for us. He did not create it as an idol to be worshipped.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/11


MarkV: "You also said the days are the same in the last 2,000 years, what about since Genesis?"

I believe that Jesus, the Creator God of Genesis, the Teacher of the Sabbath at the exodus, and the Writer of the Sabbath commandment would have corrected any error in Sabbath observance 2000 years ago. So I'll go with the day Jesus kept, and you can keep your man-made counterfeit!
---jerry6593 on 6/29/11


How about...you?
---Trav on 6/28/11

i like to uncover things that are still hidden...like to link the seemingly unrelated...try to get to the bottom line...and bury things that should remain buried.

the Wind blows were it may...
---aka on 6/28/11


Mark I didn't have Jerry in mind when I wrote that.

I have SDA friends and though I am not sure of the necessity of a Saturday Sabbath I agree with the principle. So many Christians rush off to church then rush off to their busyness. The Sabbath (whatever day it is) was given for man, to withdraw from the busyness of the world, to refresh him and to give quantity time to God.

As a group I have found SDA's to be more accepting of Biblical truth than most other denominations.

Compared to Jerry some others here seem to have serious doubts about Biblical truth, while still loudly claiming to be Christian. Some, I believe, are not Christian's but are here endeavouring to undermine people's faith in Jesus.
---Warwick on 6/28/11


StrongAxe, I read the Bible 'from cover to cover' and have done so many times. This has given me an overall picture. I spend considerable time reading every day.

Lots of reading is like lots of anything-the more you do the better you become. And we have the insight of the Holy Spirit and learned people to shed light also.

Further to that we have what Jesus and the apostles have said about the OT. I believe we should consider that they (especially Jesus) were in a unique position to understand it.

Genesis is not poetry, allegory, or metaphor. It is straight forward Hebrew prose, the type of language we use to relate real happenings.
---Warwick on 6/28/11


"Why would God need to become flesh...?"
What a mystery that God became man and chose to die for we sinners!
---Warwick on 6/28/11

It is only a mystery to adamant doctrinals like yourself. Scripture documents with established, tested Prophets as witnesses. Apostles verify and confirm by same witnesses.
It is easily deduced your doctrine funda's,logic and a overblown ego intensify your mystery.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
John 10:13
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
---Trav on 6/28/11


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Jerry, you provide no Scripture only your opinions and ideas of a bias heart. Nothing you say is Scriptural. You conclude what you say is truth but never show Scripture. You said once that God told us that Saturday was the day He rested, and God never said such thing in Genesis. You also said the days are the same in the last 2,000 years, what about since Genesis? Until you provide Scripture to proof that, you will always be calling me names. why? It is just as Warwick stated,
"\\But they spend their time undermining the truth of God's word. They do not hold to a straight-forward meaning of Scripture, but reinterpretations of Scripture forced upon them by worldly philosophies (i.e.long-ages/evolution) or cultic teaching.\\"
---Mark_V. on 6/28/11


MarkV: You're right. A misspelled word is nothing. I only bring it up when the blogger has a pedantic or pseudo-scientific tone. You missed the meat (or is it meet) of my post, however. Here it is again:

The first day of the week is Sunday, and the seventh day is Saturday, according to the dictionary. If you are unsure of which day is holy, just keep the one Jesus kept. The weekly cycle - Sunday-to-Saturday - hasn't changed in 2000 years according to the US Naval Observatory.

Also, the issue is not over a 4-minute discrepancy in the length of a day, but a multi-million year one. You seem to be straining at gnats while swallowing camels.
---jerry6593 on 6/28/11


Aka, you are also correct. Sometimes it's better to wait to answer so that we don't answer in anger or in the flesh as you say. Other times it's because many here work hard and their time is occupied with many things and it takes them longer to answer. But those ones that Warwick speaks of are those who never had an answer to the topic from Scripture, but only give their opinions and judgments. But you are correct, there is many other reasons too. Peace brother
---Mark_V. on 6/27/11


Cluny thank you for your answer,no it didn't,how could it when it was a general statement covering all who diagree with you. I am sure there are many who disagree with you as there are many who disagree with me or anyone else. It would be well for all of us to practice this, 1 Timothy 4:12--but set an example for the believers in speech,in life,in love,and in purity.
---Darlene_1 on 6/27/11


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Warwick:

You yourself admit some parts of the Bible are literal, and some are figurative/metaphorical. How do we decide which is which? What makes the most sense in the given context.

The Bible defines days as "from sunset to sunset". 24 hours is never mentioned once. 23:58:42 (and very slowly lengthening over time) is just a measurable phenomeon NOW, but not the definition. It was VERY different the day God stopped the sun over Gibeon (and that was the WHOLE POINT then!).

However, "sunset to sunset" has no meaning when there is no sun - so the common definition fails during the first two days, and to insist they were ALSO 24 hours reads something into the text that is not there.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/11


i guess the other blog about blood was closed. oh, well...too much talk of tongues.

//Mark those who fail to answer or give nonAnswers condemn themselves. It is good for true seekers to see this.//

there sometimes is wisdom behind this...like when Jesus spoke to Pilate.

when i first started blogging, i was answering too quickly, thus my flesh would show.

now, after a while sometimes, i do not answer for days waiting for the spirit to answer either through me or someone else. i am better now at answering quicker in the Spirit.

sometimes, i do not answer at all because i detect they are searching not for the truth but only to pull you into vicious circles that lead nowhere.
---aka on 6/27/11


\\Cluny with due respect but I can't believe you would say " Actually its those who disagree with ME whose Christianity is in doubt". An elitist attitude because one believes their brand of "Christianity" is the only right and true way isn't what I expect Christians to have. \\

Did it occur to you that I was holding up a mirror to certain people here?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/27/11


aka--no, "civility" does not mean disruptive, but rather "NOT disruptive". Did we have some disagreement about that?

The topic of our conversation WAS about the rules in I Cor. about tongues and specifically praying in tongues, as you may recall. If you had said in the beginning that you didn't believe in tongues,that would have been a different conversation entirely. I wouldn't have bothered.
And I DO agree that convincing proof of the Spirit (then and now) is fruit of the Spirit.
(I never said speaking in tongues was proof of anything).
---Donna66 on 6/27/11


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Cluny with due respect but I can't believe you would say " Actually its those who disagree with ME whose Christianity is in doubt". An elitist attitude because one believes their brand of "Christianity" is the only right and true way isn't what I expect Christians to have. I guess I am simple in believing we really are to love one another and let God sort out what is right and what is wrong in each denomination. I dare say no one denomination is 100% right in their practices but have manmade traditions they follow.Mark 3:35 Whoever does Gods will is my brother,and sister and mother,Jesus speaking. We know God's will by his Word,by the Gospel of Christ. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Love is kind.
---Darlene_1 on 6/27/11


Warwick, I agree with you whole heartly. I hope I spelled that correctly. You are one of the one's of many who are respectful in answering, and I enjoy your opinions and the passion you have for defending the Truth. I also know when others avoid answering they condemn themselves, not to hell but to their witness. I also believe been dogmatic about one area, can bring failure in another area. God is not clear on many things we encounter while reading, and only because He didn't see fit to do so. If He explained everything in detail we would have a book so big, we would still not understand it all. The Spirit has to reveal things to us in parts and everyone differently. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/11


Jerry, before I pushed enter, I did think I had it wrong but was not worried that Warwick would mind because he does answer kindly. I do not have my spell check activated. I never took the time to find out how. I don't mind when someone spell's incorrectly but I do ask if what they said was true. If anyone was going to complain, you were one I would think would be the first. Still some hate in your heart I notice, and you complain about others who are not perfect and keep the Law as you do. Gives evidence of what I talk about concerning SDA's.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/11


Mark those who fail to answer or give nonAnswers condemn themselves. It is good for true seekers to see this.

To allow people to promote error or lies without contradiction is like admitting we have no answer. As the saying goes "He who remains silent consents."
---Warwick on 6/27/11


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MarkV: "you could also say that the day is not 24 hrs but 23 hrs 56 min. since we have a leep year."

You might sound more credible if you'd learn to spell "leap" correctly. The first day of the week is Sunday, and the seventh day is Saturday, according to the dictionary. If you are unsure of which day is holy, just keep the one Jesus kept. The weekly cycle - Sunday-to-Saturday - hasn't changed in 2000 years according to the US Naval Observatory.

Also, the issue is not over a 4-minute discrepancy in the length of a day, but a multi-million year one. You seem to be straining at gnats while swallowing camels.
---jerry6593 on 6/27/11


Warwick, there is no argument God can convert anyone, anytime, anywhere. The only thing is that on this website in front of everyone they will respond to get attention not to answer. And here you are limited to single post 125 words per post. It is still possible but not likely you can give the whole whole counsel of God. It is a great website for those who want to learn more about God and the meat of the Word.
The book of Genesis gives no stated day as to the first day. The first day could have been Monday. What we do know is that it was a day. Another thing if you wanted to be dogmatic about the hours in a day, you could also say that the day is not 24 hrs but 23 hrs 56 min. since we have a leep year.
---Mark_V. on 6/26/11


Cluny, do you believe the chalice actually holds Jesus' blood?

Do you believe the wafer is actually human flesh?

Do you believe Jesus was actually promoting canibalism?

Or is there a deeper Spiritual truth here?

In John ch. 10 Jesus calls Himself a 'gate' or 'door' depending upon the version you read. He also calls us 'sheep.' Do you blindly take this literally or are you able to see the figures of speech?

However day-length, as per Genesis 1, and Exodus 20:8-11 is no figure of speech but part of a literal command to the Israelites to have the 7th day of rest. A real 24hr day. If this is a figure of speech maybe all the 10 Commandments are just figures of speech, not literal commands!
---Warwick on 6/26/11


//The verse about tongues applies because people speak in tongues today. //

1Co 14:22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers...

A man who is obviously a foreigner who I do know does not speak English (there are many in my apts) starts talking to me about Jesus in my native tongue (his foreign tongue), I know it is a sign for me to listen. A man from my church who speaks in my native tongue talks to me in a 'foreign tongue', I know it is a sign for me to leave.

the 'tongues' people speak today are not convincing spiritual truth. convincing proof of the Spirit (then and now) is fruit of the Spirit.

(Civility does not necessarily mean not disruptive.)
---aka on 6/26/11


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Mark, thanks for your comments. I have met quite a few Christians who were once atheists. Someone persisted with them and the Holy Spirit convicted them, leading to their salvation. The Nobel Prize Chemist Rick Smalley comes to mind, as one.

I cannot see how there is any doubt concerning what day God began creating as he says He created in 6-days. Therefroe there was no creating before the beginning of the first day. The first day therefore begins with "in the beginning" and ends with "And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day."
---Warwick on 6/26/11


Praying in the Spirit means to pray in agreement with Gods will, and possibly directly under the Lords direction. The Bible doesnt apply the term to people using repetitive prayers, or ungodly - fleshly prayers. It may be in tongues, but 1Corinthians chapter 14 still applies. There are too many Charismatic Christians who pray in tongues, but then dont bother to interpret the word, or refuse to compare that given to the Word. Ecclesiastes 5:2-7, Matthew 6:7, Acts 17:11, Romans 13:12, 2Corinthians 6:7, 10:4, Ephesians 6:10-20, 1Thessalonians 5:8, Hebrews 4:12, 5:13, 1Peter 1:25, 2Peter 1:19-21.
---Glenn on 6/26/11


\\What I do not believe are the words of people who will not accept what His word plainly says because of worldly philosophies, cultic beliefs, or denominational error, through which they reinterpret His word.\\

When Jesus took bread and wine, saying, "This is My Body. This is My Blood," do you believe Him or deny what the Word plainly says because of your worldly philosophies, cultic believes, or denominational error through which you reinterpret His word?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/26/11


aka--I understood your point. MY point was that BOTH verses apply today. The one about women and the one about tongues.
The verse about tongues applies because people speak in tongues today.
The verse about women still applies IF women are being disruptive as in Pauls day. IF they are, the pastor has the right to tell them to be quiet.
---Donna66 on 6/26/11


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donna66, i did not quote that scripture in an attempt to shift the discussion about women. i quoted it because it is physically located next to the verses that make an "airtight" case for tongues.

i have heard you say several times in the two years that i have been posting that you like to discuss things for the sake of discussion, which we call a "devil's advocate". you said that women are more behaved now than then. i disagree (why do you think i said let the denial begin) and i know you disagree with me. men have their shortcomings that they cherry-pick around or deny also. that is why we all need saved from ourselves.
---aka on 6/26/11


Warwick, concerning athiest, it was my opinion not Scripture. I know I cannot diologue with him about Scripture, he doesn't believe in God or His Word. Your right, many others are much worse when anwsering with hate and evil in their hearts. Though he makes jokes to laugh at Almighty God, he is polite when he answers. Much different then others here who claim they are saved.
Also, the Bible has many statements, some are explicit and others are implicit. It is to me obvious that seven days is seven days. What is not explicit is on what day did God begin creation. If God wanted us to know He would have told us what day He started. We assume because of the calender use that it was Sunday and rested Saturday, but He did not say that.
---Mark_V. on 6/26/11


Cluny, wrong again!

I believe all Scripture is Truth.

When He says He is Saviour, I believe it.
I believe Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, the only way to God because He says so.
When His word says Jesus came to overcome the curse brought about by Adam's sin I believe it.
When His word says the age of the earth is measured by the genealogies from Adam to Jesus I believe it.
When God defines day-length as an earth-rotation 24hr day and says He created in 6 of these, I believe it.

What I do not believe are the words of people who will not accept what His word plainly says because of worldly philosophies, cultic beliefs, or denominational error, through which they reinterpret His word.
---Warwick on 6/26/11


\\But they spend their time undermining the truth of God's word. They do not hold to a straight-forward meaning of Scripture, but reinterpretations of Scripture forced upon them by worldly philosophies (i.e.long-ages/evolution) or cultic teaching.\\

What you're saying, Warwick, is that they disagree witn you.

Actually, it's those who disagree with ME whose Christianity is in doubt.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/25/11


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aka-- you opened the question about women. I don't see an issue here worth persuing.
---Donna66 on 6/25/11


Warwick -- When it comes to Christianity, atheist knows nothing. And he doesn't ask questions with a desire to learn, only to argue. I usually ignore him, because his questions often aren't related to the discussion at hand and I know he has no intention of listening.
---Donna66 on 6/25/11


Mark, further to your comments I think some bloggers are far more problematic than Atheist.

Some claim to be Christian, reacting angrily if anyone doubts this claim. But they spend their time undermining the truth of God's word. They do not hold to a straight-forward meaning of Scripture, but reinterpretations of Scripture forced upon them by worldly philosophies (i.e.long-ages/evolution) or cultic teaching.

Atheists attacks are obviously those of the enemy. However others promote half-truths which are far more powerfull than outright lies.

Some are deceivers, here to deceive, while others are the deceived who feel the need to defend the errors they have been taught, mostly in worldly-minded liberal churches, sadly.
---Warwick on 6/25/11


//Women are either better tolerated in church today or better behaved. //

back then, i can see a bit of disruption. this is the first time that all women were hearing a message of true freedom. but, 2000 years later? an aspect of behavior is civility, and i will agree with you there, but that is not the full spectrum of 'behaved'. nevertheless, i am not trying to launch another 'i am woman, hear me roar' discussion.'

I have stated my point in different ways. if want to keep on trying to turn this into another discussion, you may start to understand why there is now only toleration and no true love for one another.
---aka on 6/25/11


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Mark, some time ago a young Christian woman told me she was being ridiculed by her nonBeliever brother. She had no answers to his antiChristian evangelism and He was undermining her faith. I argued with him, contradicted his arguments, and gave him specific literature to read. Soon afterwards he stopped hassling her. The whole episode strengthened her faith.

Atheist is a bigot, who, knows little about Christianity, and interestingly little about the long-ages/evolutionary foundations of his faith.

His arguments are false, and nothing new.

I don't ask anyone to agree with me however I plan to continue to oppose him, hoping I can stop him from fooling anyone.
---Warwick on 6/25/11


aka-- But the verses WOULD apply to todays churches, if the same problem was encountered.
If women were being disruptive, a pastor today would have a right to tell them the very same thing.

Women are either better tolerated in church today or better behaved. But since Jewish men in those days were usually trained apart from women, women could easily have been considered disruptive...and maybe they were!
---Donna66 on 6/25/11


Warwick, I do believe debating with Athiest is useless and not productive to any of us. What it does is opens the door for him to trash God, and His Word, and as we know many here are just beginning to learn about God, and his answers may sway them away from God in whom they are just beginning to know. He even uses the name "Athiest" to make his point who he is. We do know that in history many athiest have turned to Christ, but that is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring them to repentance. The Holy Spirit has to open their hearts to the truth before they ever have a chance to believe. Others here might not be saved, but they might have the wrong gospel and hearing the Truth will convience them otherwise. Just my thoughts Warwick.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/11


Donna66,

my point was not about women. but, you did touch on my point. one verse applies universally, without exception, to us all, another verse was pertinent then but not now, this verse and that verse mean everything while the verses surrounding do not matter.

if the verses about the women do not apply to today's church then neither should the verses about tongues.
---aka on 6/24/11


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Aka--
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church...


Sounds like Paul encountered a bunch of gabby females---women can be that way (John would call them "hens")
If women are yakking, interrupting, and causing confusion, they should be told to be quiet...or save their comments and questions for their husbands.

I don't see this as a major problem in churches today.
---Donna66 on 6/24/11


Can you imagine how they, (who thought themselves to be the absolute highest in the land, and God's kingdom, the 'non-plus-ultra') felt when a (to them) nobody tore them to pieces in public?
---Warwick on 6/23/11

Incredible as this will seem to you, your analogy is you. You've even imagined it.

Signed,
Nobody
---Trav on 6/24/11


66 you are correct.

ps warwick was talking to 5535.
---aka on 6/23/11


Warwick-- How does your post relate to anything I've said?
---Donna66 on 6/23/11


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Mima, I understand, I have too, and there are many situations where I felt led to pray the Word. Once, while still married and my ex was out drinking/drugging, I prayed that God would touch my husband, deliver him etc, I was led to Luke 11:20, which was unfamiliar to me. "
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.", so I prayed God would do that. My husband was later in an accident, and as he tells it, the car went out of control and was headed straight for a pole, and he thought, that's God's "finger". He was ok, and did very well for quite a while (deliverance), was seeking, but sadly returned to his ways, as sometimes happens(like in the rest of Luke 11_
---Christina on 6/23/11


aka--
1Cr 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course, and let one interpret.
1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church, and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This is probably what you refer to. Many churches ignore this. Praying in tongues needs no interpretation since one speaks to himself and to God Therefore it shouldn't be done aloud in the congregation.
I, myself, am wary of many pentecostal groups because of the misuse of tongues.
---Donna66 on 6/23/11


Airtight? Let us continue in this chapter...

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church...
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual [speak in tongues], he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Let the cherry picking (and denial) begin!
---aka on 6/23/11


---christina I agree that it's possible to pray in the spirit without speaking in tongues. I have in the past actually had some experience with groanings that could not be uttered.
---mima on 6/23/11


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Donna I don't think you are correct on this point. Jesus contradicted, argued with and bluntly condemned the pharisee's and other religious leaders of His day. Read Matthew 23:13-33 where Jesus called them all sorts of offensive names. He said they were hypocrites who keep people out of heaven, Blind guides, like whitewashed toombs, beautiful on the outside but vile on the inside, lawless, snakes, sons of vipers-"How can you escape the judgement of hell?"

Can you imagine how they, (who thought themselves to be the absolute highest in the land, and God's kingdom, the 'non-plus-ultra') felt when a (to them) nobody tore them to pieces in public?
---Warwick on 6/23/11


Do any of you realize that Jesus did not talk back to the Pharisees when they accused him of something false? Why do you respond to athiest? Jesus wouldn't respond to an athiest UNLESS the Holy Spirit is telling you to tell athiest something, please ignore him. He has a pharisee spirit...don't respond to it or him. Let him be. We can't change his beliefs. He'll find out on judgement day how wrong he is.
---Donna5535 on 6/23/11


"Darlene you have constructed an airtight case as refers to praying in the spirit being speaking in tongues.
---mima on 6/23/11"
I do agree that praying in tongues is praying in the Spirit, however, it is not the only way to do so. Paul says, With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit. Ephesians 6:18. Noone that I know of prays in tongues all the time, for instance one may pray in their own language, praying the Word, led by the Spirit, and I am convinced some of those prayers are in the Spirit.
---christina on 6/23/11


Darlene-- Exactly. Glad for your post. I have quoted this scripture SO many times, right here on these blogs. People read the scripture (or say they did) and go right on to tell you speaking in tongues can not be prayer!
Of course, they are people who do not speak in tongues themselves and that is how they know!
---Donna66 on 6/23/11


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Darlene you have constructed an airtight case as refers to praying in the spirit being speaking in tongues.
---mima on 6/23/11


1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God for no man understands him howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14: 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prays,but my understanding is unfruitful. These two verses make it clear praying "in the spirit" is praying in tongues. First the verses say what is spoken isn't understood by men,next they say ones own understanding is unfruitful therefore it has to be in tongues since thier own languge they would understand.
---Darlene_1 on 6/23/11


Athiest, I was not looking to argue who is right and who is wrong about anything. I ask you a question because I never saw that word before and wanted to know where you got it from. That is all.
I know why you are here athiest, and it is to proof there is no God. And I'm not here to proof there is a God for I assume everyone here answering with the exception of you is a believer, so I debate doctrines of Scripture and since you don't believe in Scripture there is really nothing to debate with you concerning the Word of God or God.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/11


mima, let's fill in the blanks:

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful....
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.

I'm not denying tongues, I speak against the common misuse and abuse of them.
---aka on 6/22/11


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Mark,

"Eisogesis" is a word used in a blog entry of Cluny's below.

But my point stands for your word and your entry, how do you know the correct meaning of anything in the bible.
---atheist on 6/22/11


First Corinthians 14:15,says
"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." I believe when we pray with the spirit we pray in tongues. And I believe when we pray with understanding we pray in a language understood by the one praying.
---mima on 6/22/11


Reading the bible is not an easy transaction: it takes the spirit of God to do the watering, the word is the seed.

It took me over 30 years of reading to understand a small section of the bible in very broad general terms.
However, my son learnt a good quarter with clear understanding needed tweeking a bit but it demonstrates why men are called young,
in several months he was revealing scripture that I knew was there, but not how he unfolded its messages, geart stuff!! He is gaining new knowledge everyday, God Said "YOUNG MEN I HAVE CALLED YOU" so his understanding is always going to be better than mine.
---Carla on 6/22/11


"Does this Scriptures' reference to praying in the spirit have anything to do with praying in tongues?

Not necessarily, since all do not speak/pray in tongues.

If not, why a special mention of the spirit?"Praying in the spirit, as opposed to a carnal prayer, would be praying in the will of God, and it is that sort of prayer that is most effective.
---christina on 6/22/11


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athiest, what is "eisogesis"? I have not heard of that word. Is it something new? Some new word?
Or, are you saying ("eisegesis")" reading the persons own meaning into the text?
I know that "exegesis" is the application of the principles of hermeneutics to arrive at a correct understanding of the Text.
While many do preach without the correct interpretation, what preachers teach is more preaching then teaching. Preachers mostly speak about Scripture and then apply that passage for a topic they want to speak about for godly living. And they really never give the true correct meaning of the passage God wanted to convey.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/11


I think a god who create all, could've left a clearer instruction book...
---atheist on 6/21/11

the bible is not an instruction book.
---aka on 6/22/11


Cluny, googled the word and:

"When a preacher has something to say and uses a Scripture text to say it, chances are he/she is about to commit the error of eisogesis. This is actually the wrong starting point for sound preaching. The bedfellow of eisogesis is allegorisation. Allegorising a Scriptural passage is fraught with hermeneutical problems. It might be argued that most preachers lack the hermeneutical skills to rightly divide to Word using allegorisation. In some respects allegorisation of a Bible text is almost a "blank cheque" for the preacher to make the Bible say whatever they want."

Or anyone else?

I think a god who create all, could've left a clearer instruction book...
---atheist on 6/21/11


in the parables of the sower and the seed, Jesus says the evidence is in the fruit produced. In Gal 5:22, Paul lists this fruit: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. therein lies the evidence.

mima, spanish is an unknown tongue to me.

donna5535, i very much agreed with you until the last paragraph. i do not call anyone who speaks in tongues anything, but you are calling me a carnal man. even though i do not agree with the doctrine of tongues as you see it, i can say that through the Spirit and only because of the Spirit that I have seen the Spirit's fruit in my life where there only used to be death and destruction.

KarenD and mima, is that blasphemy?
---aka on 6/21/11


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Yes I think so!!
And here's the reason why.

Scripture first Corinthians 14:14,"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." Notice that if my spirit prayeth I am praying in an unknown tongue. Seems pretty straightforward to me. This unknown tongue is what is referred to as gibberish by the unsophisticated.
---mima on 6/21/11


Since the Holy Ghost baptism has the evidence of speaking in tongues, why can't praying in the spirit be in tongue? If one says it is not, is this blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
---KarenD on 6/21/11


No. You don't think it does, do you you?

To say that "praying in the Spirit" means "praying in tongues" is to make an a priori assumption, or to indulge in eisogesis, that is, reading INTO a passage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/21/11


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