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Claims She Is Born Again

My cousin who claims she's born again, but doesn't believe in tongues, doesn't believe the Gifts of the Spirit are for today. Believes you get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when you say the sinners prayer. What do YOU say? What is wrong with her beliefs? Anything?

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 ---Donna5535 on 6/28/11
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Rickey * Ruben...baptism is an act of obedience.

What happens if we are disobedience?

Rickey *As I asked before, if a person does what Romans 10:9-10

Again , about Romans 10:9-10, Jesus himself tell us in Matthew 7:21 "Not eveyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of God" . And if someone who did not get baptized wiil he go to hell, "ONLY" God knows the heart of that person!

Rickey *That verse says that it's a gift from God. God doesn't take back what He's given.

Yes, God does not take it back but allows us to leave "After this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."(JHN 6:67)
---Ruben on 7/6/11


Willa...there was a time period where Jesus ministered to the disciples after the Resurrection. He walkes w/ & taught them and then ascended into heaven. (Acts 1:3)
They had already confessed Him as Lord.(Romans 10:9) If they had not done so then they wouldn't have been able to be baptized in then Holy Spirit.(Luke 5:36-39)

Just like us today...we must be born-again/confess Jesus as Lord...aka say the sinner's prayer...in order to get baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues.
---Rickey on 7/6/11


Ruben...baptism is an act of obedience. As I asked before, if a person does what Romans 10:9-10 says then dies w/o being water baptism will he/she go to hell? NO.

If our salvation depended anything on water baptism then we need to put faith in men. Ephesians 2:8-9 differs.

That verse says that it's a gift from God. God doesn't take back what He's given.
---Rickey on 7/6/11


Mark I never said that the New Birth is the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The bible list several baptisms, but baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

1)New birth(John 3:3-7, 1Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5)
**When you confess Jesus as Lord you are placed/baptized/submerged into the body of Christ.

2)Water baptism (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38)

**It isn't a requirement for salvation.(Romans 10:9-10, 1Corinthians 1:11-17)

3)Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, Acts 1:8)
---Rickey on 7/6/11


Willa...they all were born-again. If not they wouldn't have been able to be filled w/ the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentacost.
---Rickey on 7/5/11

I understand why you say this, but where does it say they were born again,according to your understanding of born again, before they received holy spirit? No where does it say this is the case. My understanding of born again and yours are quite different though so in a way you are right but not in the way you mean it, though I am still studying to be certain of this and hope you do the same.
---willa5568 on 7/6/11




Rickey, I agree with your first sentence concerning 1 Cor.12:13 baptized into one body by the Spirit.
But then you say we are baptized by the Holy Spirit again.
The disciples did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit permanently yet. No one did with the exception of John the Baptist, but that was very rare. The disciples had been given the Spirit to give them powers, but it was not permanent. The new birth is not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Neither is the sealing. The new birth is the changing from dead to live spiritually Eph. 2:1. It's only the beginning of a new life and the drawing of God, for we were separated from Him while lost. Spiritual death is separation from God. The drawing of God comes before all things.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/11


Rickey * Water baptism doesn't save.(1Corinthians 1:17)

But yet Paul had to rise and be baptized calling on his name (Acts 22:16)

Rickey *Baptism is for believers...those who have already confessed Jesus as Lord. Has nothing to do w/ getting saved. Instead of debating it pray about it & study the scriptures.
---Rickey on 7/5/11

If they are already saved, why do they need to be baptized?
---Ruben on 7/5/11


Many people do things in ministry, are successful, etc., but are still outside of the plan of God for them. The "I never knew you" is talking about "I never knew you to be doing what I assigned for you to do"...
---Rickey on 7/5/11

Yes, but you said all they need to do is what Romans 10: 9-10 says to do!
---Ruben on 7/5/11


What "church folks" consider to be repentance is simply confessing sins. In God's sight repentance is returning to right-standing w/ Him.

And no it is not up to God if a person goes to heaven after doing what Romans 10:9-10 says. He is entitled to recieve each and every person who gets born-again. He has bound Himself to His own word.

1Peter 3:20-21 doesn't put emphasis on water baptism for salvation. It's for a clear conscience.

Again, if a person does what Romans 10:9-10 says and dies w/o water baptism...are they saved or no? Yes they are according to scriptures.
---Rickey on 7/5/11


So if the scripture is requiring baptism for salvation then Jesus' Lordship just isn't enough.

Another thing is that we have redemption only through the blood of Jesus. (Ephesians 1:7, Revelation 1:5)

Water baptism doesn't save.(1Corinthians 1:17)
If it is required then a person needs to get baptized twice...once for before and after confessing Jesus as Lord. Baptism is for believers...those who have already confessed Jesus as Lord. Has nothing to do w/ getting saved. Instead of debating it pray about it & study the scriptures.
---Rickey on 7/5/11




Willa...they all were born-again. If not they wouldn't have been able to be filled w/ the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentacost.
---Rickey on 7/5/11


Matthew 7:21 is a good verse, but you have to read the pretext to see what He was talking about. He never said that they would be casted into hell. All He said is that they would have to depart from them like a person in shame...He was referring to judgment according to works.(2nd Corinthians 5:10, 3:14-15)

Many people do things in ministry, are successful, etc., but are still outside of the plan of God for them. The "I never knew you" is talking about "I never knew you to be doing what I assigned for you to do"...
---Rickey on 7/5/11


Rickey * Read it. He wasn't emphasizing on water baptism man.

Really, says who? you!

Why then does the Bible say eight souls were saved by water(1 Peter 3:20-21)The Bible says "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized "(Acts 10:47) The Bible says "Rise up, and be baptized. and wash away thy sins "(Acts 22:16)

Rickey * Romans 10:9-10 shows that water baptism is required for salvation.

Romans 10 says nothing about repentance, Does that mean repentance is not necessity?
---Ruben on 7/5/11


Rickey*If person dies w/o being water baptized will they go to hell? NO!!!

We leave that up to God,only he knows men hearts! Are you claiming to be God?

Rickey* The moment that we make Jesus the Lord of our life the Holy Spirit, the seal of approval, comes and dwells in us.

But Jesus himself tells us in Matthew 7:21 ""Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" And goes on to tell us "thoses who endure till the end will be saved"
---Ruben on 7/5/11


Ricky,

where does it say they were already "born again" and had holy spirit dwelling in them?

When Jesus breathed on them and said "receive the holy spirit" Thomas was not present, so was he the only one not yet "born again"?
---willa5568 on 7/5/11


Mark, 1Corinthians 12:13 show that we are baptized/placed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit the moment we get saved.

The disciples who were in the upper room on the day of Pentacost already had the Holy Spirit permanently dwelling in them because they had already been born-again. In Acts they were waiting for the baptism in the Holy Spirit which is only for those who have made Jesus Lord. If they weren't born-again then they were wasting time in the upper room.
---Rickey on 7/5/11


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Ruben I'm glad that you mentioned that scripture "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

Read it. He wasn't emphasizing on water baptism man. Romans 10:9-10 shows that water baptism is required for salvation. It is a sign of obedience.
If person dies w/o being water baptized will they go to hell? NO!!!
The moment that we make Jesus the Lord of our life the Holy Spirit, the seal of approval, comes and dwells in us.
---Rickey on 7/5/11


Gifts help christians spread the gospel or help other christians in need. For salvation we only need one gift, Jesus Christ. HE will baptise you in the Spirit.
---duane on 7/4/11


//Believes you get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when you say the sinners prayer//
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe (And say the sinners prayer?) on the Lord Jesus Christ,(1 Cor.15:1-4) and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel(1Cor 15:1-4) of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
---michael_e on 7/4/11


Rob -- Many pay lip service to the rest, especially the "laying on of hands', and "the sick recovering" and "casting out of devils". A very few try snake handling (safely or not). As for poison, they maintain that, if forced to drink it, they would be fine. (But unlike snake handlers, nobody volunteers to demonstrate)
---Donna66 on 7/3/11


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Robyn, why is it people who claim speaking in tongues, is evidience of being saved and having the Holy Spirit.

Yet they avoid and run from the second part of Mark 16:17-18, even though they are part of the same sentence?
---Rob on 7/3/11


Robyn, I have a Gift, but it is not tongues. I've never spoken in tongues. God gave me a BETTER GIFT than tongues.

AND not everyone is given the gift of tongues. That is clearly stated. You will see NOWHERE at Pauls conversion he spoke in tongues. You will see many conversions in Act where no one after spoke in tongues.

Some are given the gift of Teaching, but not all have that gift either. Some Prophesy, some exortation etc.

Maybe she meant the SIGN Gifts, which are different than the others.

---kathr4453 on 7/3/11


Robyn, I disagree with one of your points. You said concerning tongues,
"She is mistaken on that. Not only is she mistaken, she will miss out on the best part of her salvation"
Not concerning to Scripture,
"I thank God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, that you were enriched in everything, even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, "so that you come short in no gift," eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also sustain you to the end,.." ( 1 Cor. 1:4-8). Genuine Christians don't lack any gift necessary for them.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/11


1Co 1:22-24 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness, But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
-Belief in CHrist is paramount.
-Looking for a sign may be a stumblingblock for you while she grows in the faith and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
-Introspection first-What may be wrong with your beliefs?(beam).
-Either way Jesus calls it a speck in the other's eye, hardly worth noticing, but maybe a little irritating.
---micha9344 on 7/2/11


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What are your beliefs? Your cousin is correct on a couple of points. But what do you think she should do, to prove she is saved.She does not have to answer to you or anyone else. If she is mistaken, she will have to get it right, for herself. But I agree with the cousin on the sinners prayer and indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
But I disagree with her on her beliefs concerning tongues and the gifts of the spirt. She is mistaken on that. Not only is she mistaken, she will miss out on the best part of her salvation. Speaking in tongues give us power,authority and ability to live the christian life. She will also not be able to walk in her gift{s) that the HS bestows on her due to her unbelief. This is so sad, for her.
---Robyn on 7/2/11


We see in Ephesians 4 that the Body of Christ, His Church are given gifts. These are spiritual gifts, operating in the Power of the Holy Spirit. Every saved person has a gift, whether they realize it. THE PROBLEM is, many churches are afraid to allow these gifts to operate because so much satanic immitation is being manifest. So what they do is quench the spirit by giving a personality test , and use that to tell you what your gift is. If one is a teacher in real life...walla, your gift is teaching.WRONG!

Our spiritual Gifts can be completely opposite from who we are and what we do, and has no bearing on our flesh or old Adam nature. A shy person will be BOLD, and anything but shy when the power of God is working through them.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/11


In a sense Donna's cousin is correct. You do get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when you say a sinner's prayer. This is clearly pointed out by the Scriptures that say," whoever shall call upon the name the Lord shall be saved". Now we know to be saved you must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Case closed!! There is nothing wrong with her beliefs that could not be cured by not limiting her beliefs. Example a person who has a sip of Coke. Can be said to have had a Coke tasted a Coke but certainly has not enjoyed the rest of the bottle!! Many are in like condition.
---mima on 7/2/11


Rickey, Acts 1:8 though the disciples believed, they had not been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Which is "Christian Baptism." Some had John's Baptism. John's baptism was to prepare believers to what was to come. The baptism of water cleansing in the Old Testament was also a symbol of obedience of what was to come. Even the disciples did not have a "permament indwelling of the Spirit yet," for Christ had not risen. He had to go away for the Holy Spirit (comforter ) to come "permanently" in a special way and all who would later believe that Christ had resurrected. Christian Baptism is for all believers who believe by faith in the Works of Christ on the cross and "His resurrection"
---Mark_V. on 7/2/11


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God is judge.
Praise God that he alone knows the Heart of man.
Jms 5:9
Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
Mat 7
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Only one is perfect.
Y'sh a-Jesus Christ.
Praise God for repentance and remission.
---char on 7/1/11


some say we are baptized by/in/with holy spirit when we believe the gospel of Christ(and the kingdom of God which was the main focus of his teaching). Where does scripture say this? The holy spirit baptism is a gift that is observable. To repent and be "born again" never implies we have received the spirit at that point. Remember also Paul spoke to those who had received the gift.
---willa5568 on 7/1/11


Paul did say,

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." 1 Corinthians 13:8

So, do we still need to see miracles and tongues at this present day to believe? If so, where's your faith. Harken unto Jesus declaration to Thomas,

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:17
---christan on 7/1/11


There are 3 baptisms spoken of.
1- The disciples baptized saints for Jesus.
2- The Lord told Peter when converted strengthen his brethren. He was already a disciple. This 2nd was the baptism of the Holy Ghost on the day of pentecost.
3- Jesus said (after his baptism in water) he had a baptism to be baptized with. That was his death and resurrection. We as Christians should have all 3 as well.
---Frank on 7/1/11


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Rickey * The bible list several baptisms, but baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

Romans 10 says nothing about repentance, Does that mean repentance is not necessity?

Rickey * 2)Water baptism (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38)

**It isn't a requirement for salvation.(Romans 10:9-10, 1Corinthians 1:11-17)

Really, "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

"Going therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." ( Matthew 28:19)
---Ruben on 7/1/11


The bible list several baptisms, but baptism isn't a requirement for salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

1)New birth(John 3:3-7, 1Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5)
**When you confess Jesus as Lord you are placed/baptized/submerged into the body of Christ.

2)Water baptism (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38)

**It isn't a requirement for salvation.(Romans 10:9-10, 1Corinthians 1:11-17)

3)Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, Acts 1:8)

Each of the baptisms listed are done at different time by different people.
Baptism #1 is done by the Holy Spirit.
#2 Water baptism is done by a man.
#3 is done by Jesus.
The bible does mention that there are more than one baptisms. Check out Hebrew 6:1-2.
---Rickey on 7/1/11


Mark, there are many who don't receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit when they get saved. Think about the people on the day of Pentacost...they were already saved, had the Holy Spirit in them, but hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit w/ the evidence of speaking in tongues. Jesus said it best in Acts 1:8. No one who is born-again can get baptized in the Holy Spirit.
That is why I listed the 3-baptisms. Most christians only get 2/3 of them & not get baptized w/ the Holy Spirit.
---Rickey on 7/1/11


//There is two baptism, one in water to acknowledge our commitment//
There WERE two.
Our apostle says there is one.
Ephes 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
//one in water to acknowledge our commitment//
No scripture for this statement.
---michael_e on 7/1/11


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Rickey, what makes you think that she is not baptized into one body? Because that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Do you even know what happened at Pentacost and why it happened?
Everyone to that point who had believed had not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit because the ministry of the Spirit to that point had not been revealed in that special way. During and after Pentecost everyone receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment they believe by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ because Christ has risen. There is two baptism, one in water to acknowledge our commitment and Baptism of the Holy Spirit when we place our faith in Christ Jesus works. There is no third baptism.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/11


Rickey, First, How are you doing?

What I'm trying to discuss here is can you believe ONLY PART of the Word of God, the Scriptures and TRULY LIVE the Resurrected life? She doesn't have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because 3 years ago I wrote her a letter and asked her NOT to discuss it with my sister who isn't saved. She RAN right over to my sisters house and told her. She didn't understand anything I said in that letter and so misinterpreted it, that my sister who isn't saved went against me. You DO NOT get the Holy Spirit when you say the sinners prayer. That's what she believes. The sinners prayer isn't in the bible..this lie is now finally being exposed. The sinners prayer DOES NOT save you, right?
---Donna5535 on 7/1/11


Truth be told, there is nothing wrong with her beliefs. The Holy Spirit does come and abide in you the moment you get born again.(Ephesians 4:30)

One thing I do say is that she is just missing the revelation that the second baptism, the baptism in the Holy Spirit, is for her. (Acts 1:8)

Just pray the Ephesians 1:15-23 prayer for her and watch change come.
---Rickey on 6/30/11


Once again, I'll go back to my ORIGINAL point of this blog question:

Can you pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and still 1) Be a Christian and 2) Live the Christian life to it's fullest extent (in the Power of His Resurrection). THAT was the point of my question. Thank you for letting me clarify.
---Donna5535 on 6/29/11

aka, you've had a bone of contention with me for the last eight months or so. I left this site because of it. Why do you insist on insulting me and taking digs at me? You are a very loveable man. I love you dearly. We were friends once, remember? (((huggsss)) no hard feeling, okay?
---Donna5535 on 6/30/11


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michael e when we are redeemed/saved Jesus and the Father come make their abode with us and we are led by the Word of God,the Bible John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him,if a man love me he will keep my words,And my Father will love him,and we will come unto him and make our abode with him. We are strengthened by the Lord God and follow the Bible and Christ's example of how we are to obey God. Mama Taught me as a very small child to have faith,trust God,and obey. I don't remember a time I didn't love the Lord and that love gave me a deep desire to please him. I also had a knowledge of God's power and his view of disobedience and I had a healthy respect of God and his power.
---Darlene_1 on 6/30/11


about the "gift" of tongues.
There is no gifts other than the Holy Spirit and the services God has placed in the congregation. The tongues, prophecy, healing and so on are manifestations of the gift in us. We do not possess a certain manifestation, but all. As the Corinthians though we limit this by exalting the lesser or a particular one above the greater. I know from experience, though I to speak in tongues, the charismatic and Pentecostal fellowships I have been in or part of misuse this manifestation to show how "spiritual" they are. Edify others not ourselves!
---willa5568 on 6/30/11


Lets interpret ( "Acts 19:2)
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
The question reflects Paul's uncertainty about their spiritual status, since all Christians receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation (Rom.8:9, 1 Cor. 12:13). Their answer revealed they were not yet fully Christians. They had not yet received Christian baptism having been baptized only ( "into John's baptism" ) which further gave evidence that they were not Christians ( 2:8). These disciples did not realize Jesus of Nazareth was the One to whom John's baptism pointed to. After giving them instructions they believed Paul's presentation of the gospel and came to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (2:41).
---Mark_V. on 6/30/11


\\You don't know either one of us yet you assume things that are not true.\\

Well, YOU seem to be assuming two things:

1. Your cousin is not born again.
2. God has not shown her things in the Scripture to share with you.

What's the big difference between what you accuse me of and what you yourself are doing?

And you don't really know me, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/30/11


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Donna5535 //but hey, my prayers get answered, just ask my friends...and powerful things happen when I pray,//

are you not wasting your time soliciting our tongueless opinions? shouldn't you be in prayer for your cousins?

1Co 14:9-12 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
---aka on 6/30/11


mima //Those who would explain away what no man understands really do put the human mind to shame.//

Doesn't the man who tries to explain what no man can understand put the human mind to shame, also?.
---aka on 6/30/11


I see nothing wrong with her beliefs. She's right that when you come to Jesus in faith and repentence, His Spirit comes into you.

There is nothing wrong with that as far as it goes.She does not YET understand about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Like Darlene, I didn't either, for quite a few years after first becoming a Christian.

I'm not one that believes that the gift of "tongues" is necessarily part and parcel with Salvation. Pray that she someday receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If she's strongly against it, you will likely only increase her resistance if you push it.
---Donna66 on 6/29/11


Jesus is full of the Holy Spirit.

So, as soon as you receive Jesus into your heart, you have Jesus who is full of the Holy Spirit . . . in your heart (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 6/29/11


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//Darlene_1 on 6/29/11 It was 11 years after I repented and came to God before I received the Gift of the HG//
Who led and guided you in this 11 years?
---michael_e on 6/29/11


The Gift,Baptism,of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues is not the Gift Of Tongues. The tongues with HG Baptism doesn't require interpretation for one speaks to God alone 1 Corinthians 14:2. The Gift of Tongues requires interpretation it's body ministry. It was 11 years after I repented and came to God before I received the Gift of the HG with tongues as in, Acts 19:2 He said unto them,Have you received the HG since you believed? And they said unto him,We have not so much as heard whether there be any HG. It was about 20 years from the time I spoke in tongues before I received The Gift of Tongues and interpretatrion. We are redeemed when we repent. Donna pray God will draw her to seek and receive all he has for her and you say nothing.
---Darlene_1 on 6/29/11


"Can you pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and still 1) Be a Christian and 2) Live the Christian life to it's fullest extent (in the Power of His Resurrection)." Interesting question Donna. From my own observations, when one is newly born again, they have the essential (gospel) correct. They may know nothing else, much may be in error from previous teachings/beliefs, but I believe the Holy Spirit teaches and leads us into all truth,bit by bit correcting error. Prior to spiritual birth anything is head knowledge only. As for part 2, I believe yes.
---Christina on 6/29/11


When you first speak in tongues it may seem like gibberish to someone who has NEVER spoken in tongues.
---Leslie on 6/29/11

When the Disciples spoke in tongues, they spoke to a crowd of people with many different languages.
Those people had never heard anyone speak in tongues either, and yet they were able to understand every word of the Disciples.
I have been in churches where they speak in tongues, and it is sounds like gibberish to everyone.

Those who teach speaking in tongues, use the Day of Pentecost as an example.
But if they are speaking gibberish to anyone, they are clearly not speaking in the same tongue that the disciples spoke at Pentecost, which was understood by everyone.
---David on 6/29/11


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//And what if she has something to show you in the scriptures that the Lord has shown her? Clunyon 6/29/11//

Cluny, you seem to be trying to prove something here, I give up, what is it? You don't know either one of us yet you assume things that are not true.

Tongues are for today, they are not necessary, but are evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and HE will teach us all things, it says so in first John. You have no need for a teacher, for the anointing from the Holy One teaches you all things. Although I have learned MUCH from many different preachers in the last 28 years of my walk.
---Donna5535 on 6/29/11


//What is wrong with her beliefs? Anything?//

One thing I see is the "sinners prayer", whatever that is.
---michael_e on 6/29/11


Okay here is the point of my question. I really wanted to know if you can pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe in like my cousin is doing, but this got turned into a "too much emphasis on tongues" which was never my intent.

Can you pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and still 1) Be a Christian and 2) Live the Christian life to it's fullest extent (in the Power of His Resurrection). THAT was the point of my question. Thank you for letting me clarify.
---Donna5535 on 6/29/11


Ask her does she believe that Jesus died for her sins, then she is born again. Spiritual gifts are NOT a good test of salvation. I think most gifts of tongues are false and just for show, but that is my opinion. She does have a spiritual gift as a christian, it maybe tongues, leadership, disernment, service, encouragement or anything else Paul listed. Nothing is wrong with her belief it just needs to grow more. She needs to allow HS to develop that spiritual gift. She does have the HS it is just not fully manifested in her yet into a gift. For example when a verse pops in your head when you are going through a trial that is the HS.
---Scott on 6/29/11


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what is bassicaly wrong is your insisting that the petecostal experience is equal to faith in Jesus... the pentecostal xperience is rather a growing in our christian life.
---andy3996 on 6/29/11


I've said this before but it needs said again. You are putting too much emphasis on the gift of tongues which in the list in I Corn. 13 is way down on it. You need to look to the top three, those which will always be: Faith, the basis of our salvation, Hope, that which sustaines us in times of trial, and Love, that which proves our salvation.
---Harold on 6/29/11


\\I would lovingly show her in scriptures the things the Lord has showed me.\\

And what if she has something to show you in the scriptures that the Lord has shown her?

I will say one thing about the modern gift of tongues.

Those with it have JUST AS DIFFICULT a time learning Biblical languages as those not so sanctified.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/29/11


The Lord used the parable about the seed to say that some would bring forth 30, some 60 and some 100.
Not all of those who come to the Lord will have the same calling or believe with the same depth and understanding.
---Frank on 6/29/11


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//How would you like it were she to question your spiritual experience on the same grounds?
---Cluny on 6/28//

Cluny, I would LOVE it. She doesn't speak to me because her sister forbids her too. Her sister isn't saved and controls the family as to who can and cannot speak to me.

I would lovingly show her in scriptures the things the Lord has showed me. She cannot prove tongues are not for today - I pray in tongues, so I guess I'm a false whatever you want to call me, but hey, my prayers get answered, just ask my friends...and powerful things happen when I pray, but what do I know? I only know one thing, "I was blind but now I see."
---Donna5535 on 6/29/11


David - I am not suggesting that in the Bible they spoke gibberish, however, when you first speak in tongues it may seem like gibberish to someone who has NEVER spoken in tongues. If you only spoke English and then started speaking French supernaturally, would you not think you were speaking gibberish, because you do not know French? The same concept applies.
---Leslie on 6/29/11


Have her ask the Holy Spirit to baptize her with His power, then have her speak out (it may sound like gibberish at first)
---Leslie on 6/28/11

Leslie
I have always taught according to the examples God has set before us in the Bible.
Many times I have read the example of the Lords disciples receiving of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues...However they did not speak gibberish to the people, but everyone heard them clearly in their own language.

Can you give us a Biblical example of someone who received the gift of tongues, and then spoke gibberish to the people?
---David on 6/29/11


A word about speaki an unknown language.
Here in first Corinthians 14:2 scriptures says,"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
The phrase that" for no man understand him" would seem to eliminate scholarly interpretation and translation. If those who speak in tongues are speaking mysteries then the criticism of those who speak in tongues would seem to be totally unwarranted!!! Those who would explain away what no man understands really do put the human mind to shame.
---mima on 6/29/11


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The last 100 years tongues and tongue have divided Christians. Blogger9211 is correct. The tongues (plural) spoken of in Scripture were different languages. If someone can do that then God gifted him to do it. But that's not what's taught today. When praying there's no need for anyone to pray out loud to God in gibberish, since God knows already what is in our minds, "For I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them" Eze.11:5. Now if someone wants to pray tongue (singular) to God silent, they can pray anyway they want. But we are given instructions how to pray. When someone prays in a tongue (singular) among others, it does not edify the Church, and no one understands, and only puffs up those who do it.
---Mark_V. on 6/29/11


Part 2: Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens when one believes by faith in the Works of Christ and it's a spiritual action done by the Spirit in the person by baptizing them into one body in Christ. Every single believer is baptized into one body and are indwelled by the Spirit with many gifts and are sealed for eternity. Which is the Spiritual Church of Christ and the future bride of Christ. So I believe the cousin is correct in her answer. My answer is not to offend anyone. Believers can pray in tongues or a tongue if they choose to do so. I don't believe it effects their salvation in anyway.
---Mark_V. on 6/29/11


Cluny I wouldn't call it a Gift of tongues because it doesn't conform to what the Bible says a Gift of tongues is. I would call it a Gift of Knowledge and a strong anointing or touch from God to do it. That is a wonderful thing to do.
---Darlene_1 on 6/28/11


\\ they ceased in the 1st century CE., modern manifestations are not of God.
---Blogger9211 on 6/28/11\\

WRONG!

Miralces, healings, prophecy, and tongues (though not the Pentecostal kind) still continue in Orthodoxy today without ceasing.

To give an example of the last, St. Innocent Veniaminov was the first European to learn the Tlingit and Aleut languages in a matter of months, gave them an alphabet (based on Slavonic rather than Russian script), translated the Gospels and services into their languages, and wrote was is STILL their standard grammars, though the Latin alphabet has been substituted.

Can anyone deny that this is one example of a gift of tongues?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/28/11


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Donna: I do not believe that tongues are for today. I have gifts of the Spirit. I have been indwelled with the Holy Spirit since the day I confessed Jesus is Lord.

Why do you gag on gnats? Be grateful your cousin is a believer.
---Trish on 6/28/11


Donna, a few times, I have questioned people's faith and Christianity to show how it sounded.

You seem to deny your cousin is born again because she doesn't agree with what YOU think the Bible says.

How would you like it were she to question your spiritual experience on the same grounds?

(BTW, can you show an actual, provable connection between modern glossolalia and the Biblical gift of tongues, conclusively demonstrating that they are the same thing?)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/28/11


I would remind you of Apollos.

These are things she has been taught apart from what scripture teaches and are traditions(indwelling when you say a prayer and many other "church" teaching), which many will disagree with. Paul tells us to correct with a spirit of meekness or gentleness, which isn't always easy. If she does not want to hear though, leave what you have given her and let the Father teach her. If she truly knows Him and wants to know the truth, not what men say the truth is He will reveal it to her through His word or through those who teach His doctrine.
---willa5568 on 6/28/11


blogger 9211, I agree with you. I am born again and the spirit indwells in me. tongues were a foreign language used to speak to others who did not understand. Just look at pentecost. I do believe the spirit can be quenched and I believe it can set a service on fire. I believe in fire in the pews. One obedient person in church can set the pews on fire. I have seen it.
I believe in miracles if it is God's will. I am forever thankful I am saved and my husband was saved before he passed away.
---shira3877 on 6/28/11


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Well let's look at the sinners prayer, but just as the Rosary you can say it all day long it won't make a rodents posterior about outcome of anything as God has all ready determined who will who will not be saved.

As to speaking in tongs and gifts of the spirit you friend is correct they are not for today, they ceased in the 1st century CE., modern manifestations are not of God.
---Blogger9211 on 6/28/11


Donna, just rejoice that your cousin is a believer. Let her find her way. Don't try to manage her spiritual life. Just love her. :-)
---John.usa on 6/28/11


She may be born again (Holy Spirit in you), but does not have the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit upon you). Show her Acts 2:1-4 - they were waiting for something, then they were ALL filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues. Have her ask the Holy Spirit to baptize her with His power, then have her speak out (it may sound like gibberish at first, but the Holy Spirit will give her utterance when she speaks). For the Gifts show her 1 Cor. 12:1-31 (focus on v. 1 that we are not to be ignorant of the gifts). His Word is the same FOREVER and does NOT change.
---Leslie on 6/28/11


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