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Explain Genesis Chapter 1

As in the first days of genesis 1 there is no sun, what defines the 'morning and evening'?

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 ---Jennifer on 7/12/11
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CRAIG A, The Pharisees were of their father the Devil, the father of Lies (John 8:44). They were a Brood of Vipers. They were White-washed Tombs, beautiful and holy-looking on the outside but full of rotting corruption on the inside (Matt. 23 and Luke 11). All that to say that the Pharisees did NOT follow GOD's Commands as GOD layed out. They perverted and misinterpreted GOD's Commands. When they accused YAHUSHUA (JESUS) of "breaking the Sabbath Law", it was THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION of the Law that YAHUSHUA "broke", NOT the actual Law of GOD itself. The "Good Works" that YAHUSHUA did was of RESCUING people. NOT working a 9-to-5 job for a salary or menial house chores. The Pharisees were liars and they believed lies.
---Gordon on 7/20/11


Im glad someone elsed notice the argument is only over one day.-CraigA on 7/19/11
No, this arguement is about whether or not we obey the commands of God or not.
Many people in the world are forced to work on a Saturday or be unemployed.-CraigA on 7/19/11
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
And what "pleasure" are these people doing that makes it a sin? CraigA on 7/19/11
Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
---francis on 7/20/11


Jerry, I eat very well, but also for your information I am retired from my job, and have put 400,000 on my 401 K, and have my retirement also coming from Ford Motor Co. of which I worked for 20 years before they closed down, and also get my benefits paid. So I do eat good. I work in the hospitals visiting patients and children. I'm hoping to start NODA which means, "No one dies along" at the local hospital like the one in Sacramento, I'm asking God if that is where He wants me. I also worship Christ everyday not just on Saturday's. I do not follow the Pope or Ellen White teachings, I follow Christ. I hope that helped you. Have anymore of those "d" questions?
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11


MarkV: "The Sabbath to me is everyday [sic] now"

Oh really? Then you must NEVER work. According to the Bible:

2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Do you eat?

Just curious, but WHO made the other days of the week HOLY? Constantine? The Pope? You?
---jerry6593 on 7/20/11


"I always endeavour to answer relevant, on topic questions." Warwick

This is code for "I have no idea how to answer your question(s) so I will ask my own".
---scott on 7/18/11

An observed truth Scott above. Truth, an useful.
It is a political,eyes R on me tool. Used mostly by Politicians and puffed preachers when they don't have an answer.
Reminds me of the phrase "Endeavour to persevere", quoted to and by the Indian on Josey Wales (Clint Eastwood movie)

Numbers 36:7
So shall not the inheritance of the children of Israel remove from tribe to tribe: for every one of the children of Israel shall keep himself to the inheritance of the tribe of his fathers.
---Trav on 7/19/11




--No one is condemning you for keeping Saturday Sabbath. If you believe that is the only day to keep holy, then it is your choice not ours.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11

Im glad someone elsed notice the argument is only over one day. As though it doesnt matter what we do on the other 6.
---CraigA on 7/19/11


How about this, Francis.... Jesus said it is lawful to do GOOD on the sabbath. Those contrary to Christ said he broke Gods law to obey the sabbath because in order to do GOOD, he was doing some form of work.

How is it any different for us now? If our jobs demand we work on Saturday and we need the jobs to provide for our families (which is Gods will), how can you even call it a sin?

Many people in the world are forced to work on a Saturday or be unemployed. Think about it.

The law also says do not murder. However the word of God also says to obey the power that be because they are ordained of God. Is it sin to obey the powers that be because they ask us to kill in the name of freedom?
---CraigA on 7/19/11


---Those who go to church on sundey are usually working or doing their own pleasure on the sabbath / saturday. Thus they are living in sin, and rather than confesing they deny the sin.
--- Francis

Usually? And what "pleasure" are these people doing that makes it a sin? Would swimming in the pool be considered living in sin? Would helping your elderly neighbor mow their lawn be living in sin? Would having a "POTLUCK" (sorry that still tickles me) with a few friends be living in sin?

Thats a mighty prejudiced statement.
---CraigA on 7/19/11


francis, you said,

"Those who go to church on sundey are usually working or doing their own pleasure on the sabbath / saturday. Thus they are living in sin,"
Are you also suggesting you are without sin? That on Sundays through Fridays, you are absolutely without sin?
You need to know the Truth, that the only merit we have at our disposal is the merit of Christ. The merit of Christ comes to us by grace through faith. Grace is the unmerited favor of God. It is an action or disposition of God toward us. Everything else you have is filty rags. Nothing good within you. No one is condemning you for keeping Saturday Sabbath. If you believe that is the only day to keep holy, then it is your choice not ours.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11


Genesis 1:1-5 The sun was bright, but little visible light penetrated the thick fog. Verse 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And so the Earth was revolving.
Vs. 5-8 God lifted the thick vapor off the sea. Heaven here means the first Heaven, or the atmosphere. Since more light penetrated the clouds, the production of usable air could begin.
Vs. 9-13 Land appears which allowed the plants to grow using the available light to photosynthesize.
Vs. 14-18 The sky had cleared up enough to see the sun, moon, and stars, which are used to mark days, months, seasons, and years - revolution and orbit.
---Glenn on 7/18/11




what difference does it make if we go to church on Sunday? Does scripture declare the Sabbath as a day of worship?
---CraigA on 7/17/11
MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION

The Bible says that by the law is th eknowledge of sin
It also says concerning the ten commandments, that if you trangress one, then you are guilty of breaking the whole law.

While thereis nothing wrong with going to church on sunday or any other day. Those who go to church on sundey are usually working or doing their own pleasure on the sabbath / saturday. Thus they are living in sin, and rather than confesing they deny the sin.
for day of worship See Leviticus 23:3
Eziekel 46:3?
Acts 15 21 -22, act 13: 42-44, and more imortant ISAIAH 66 22-23
---Francis on 7/18/11


Warwick, "...read Exodus 20:8-11 " Thank you. I did come across this verse shortly after posting.
---chria9396 on 7/18/11


Craig and Jerry,
Isa 66:23 is neither about the new heavens and earth, for v22 has it in a similuation-inside a prepostional clause, nor about the sabbath, for it is here talking about from month to month and week to week in which the Hebrew is better translated.
Does anyone set aside the new moon to worship God as well as the sabbath day? I think not...
v22 ...your seed and your name remain...
This is a confirmation of the promises God made to Israel.
v23 And it shall come to pass..
This is a new sentence and not refering to the previous one.
Are we to believe that God only wants us to worship Him on the new moon and sabbath day? Nay!!
I urge all of us to take a deeper look at these verses and pray for understanding.
---micha9344 on 7/18/11


Chria, if you read Exodus 20:8-11 you will see that the day God blessed in Genesis 2:3 is the same 7th day God that God commanded His people rest upon, every 7 days.

Definitely a recurring day.
---Warwick on 7/18/11


leej: "the day that he blessed in Gen 2:3 was one single day - not a recurrent weekly day. In other words, the day that God blessed in Gen 2:3 does not occur again." I never saw it that way! Thank you.
---chria9396 on 7/18/11


CraigA: See Isa 66:23.
---jerry6593 on 7/18/11


Thats about the new heaven and new earth in the future.

Im talking about right now.
---CraigA on 7/18/11


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Jerry, I see you provide no Scriptures again, just like before. Great answer for someone who is legalistic.
You say to me,
"Do you agree that the Bible says that only one day of the week is the holy Sabbath day? If so, what day do you personally think is the seventh-day Sabbath? Perhaps you could share your reasoning as to just how you arrived at that conclusion."
The Sabbath to me is everyday now for Christ lives in me. The reason, Christ is my rest. I do not live my life in the past under the Law, but live my life in Christ. You do not understand this Truths because really, you just don't want to. There is no excuse why you reject this Truth, you are just not willing to accept them that Christ is really your Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/11


MarkV: "All you have is talk and more talk."

Do you agree that the Bible says that only one day of the week is the holy Sabbath day? If so, what day do you personally think is the seventh-day Sabbath? Perhaps you could share your reasoning as to just how you arrived at that conclusion.

leej: "the day that God blessed in Gen 2:3 does not occur again"

You must be reading a strange version of the Bible. The Fourth Commandment says "remember" and "keep" concerning the Sabbath. How can that possibly apply to a one-time event?

Cluny: ISO? Perhaps you should close with "Glory to ISO". Jesus kept the Sabbath. Follow Him.

CraigA: See Isa 66:23.
---jerry6593 on 7/18/11


Glory to Jesus Christ who was raised on the first day of the week, Yomreshone,which is Sunday!
---Warwick on 7/17/11


\\Consider the Hebrew day names:\\

According to ISO, Monday is the first day of the week.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/17/11


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Can I ask something?

If Saturday is the Sabbath (day of rest) what difference does it make if we go to church on Sunday? Does scripture declare the Sabbath as a day of worship?
---CraigA on 7/17/11


Jerry, you want to be legalistic, then lets be legatistic. You present the passages where God said that He rested on Saturday. Just one. You want to be legalistic and yet cannot provide one passage where God specifically stated He begin creation on Sunday. If someone broke the law, how could you find him guilty if you don't have the law in front of you to charge him with. All you have is talk and more talk. If it was going to cause the death of your son, wouldn't you want proof from God? Or would you allow your son to be killed with only a lot of opinions from man?
---Mark_V. on 7/17/11


Mark reasonably says Scripture doesn't say 'Saturday' is the Sabbath.

Consider the Hebrew day names:

Sunday-Yom Reeshone-Meaning First Day
Monday- Yom Shaynee-Meaning Second Day
Tuesday-Yom Shlee'shee-Meaning Third Day
Wednesday-Yom Revee'ee-Meaning Fourth Day
Thursday-Yom Khah'mee'shee-Meaning Fifth Day
Friday-Yom Ha'shee'shee-Meaning Sixth Day
Saturday Shabbat Rest

The first mention of 'day' is in Genesis 1 "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day." (Hebrew Yom reeshone). Therefore when Scripture says Jesus rose on 'the first day' (e.g. John 20:1)I believe this means Sunday. Therefore the 7th day is Saturday, exactly as it is called in some languages.
---Warwick on 7/17/11


God blessed the seventh day of the creation week, but that week was a unique time period in the past, and so the day that he blessed in Gen 2:3 was one single day - not a recurrent weekly day. In other words, the day that God blessed in Gen 2:3 does not occur again. There is no evidence that the Sabbath day was instituted before the Mosaic covenant.
---leej on 7/17/11


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Well Josef, "... I like that:o). Thanks. Don't you just LOVE the Word?
---Christina on 7/17/11


Mark, unless I am missing something you are inferring the Sabbath was originally not a Saturday but wes changed by man, at some time to Saturday. This means the Sabbath was changed from the original day to Saturday and no one noticed or commented on it. I think the possibility of this is less than remote.
---Warwick on 7/17/11


MarkV: "Warwick, I do not know when man instituted Saturday as the Day of Sabbath."

Man did not institute the Sabbath - God did it at creation. Your only choice as a Christian is to determine which day of the week is the true, holy, seventh-day Sabbath and keep it according to God's commandment. You are the only person on earth who doesn't agree that the REAL seventh-day Sabbath is Saturday. Perhaps you could share your reasoning that led to your disparate conclusion.
---jerry6593 on 7/17/11


francis, I can read very well and no where is the day Saturday in those passages, only that the seventh day should be used for rest. Now if you can find one place where God mentioned He started creation on Sunday, or Sunday afternoon to Monday morning and rested on Friday evening to Saturday morning, or started Sunday and rested Saturday, I would be glad to recant what I said. But you won't find it. No day was named by God. Saturday was instituted by man as the seventh day. And Sunday was instituted by man also. If Saturday was so important why didn't God mention it in Genesis? or in Exodus?
---Mark_V. on 7/17/11


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francis, you gave only the seventh day, but no Saturday mentioned. Find me Saturday and show it to me. Maybe God forgot to put Saturday. And maybe He thought about it later and decided to just leave it to man, they are sinful anyway. Don't you think that if Saturday was so important and people were going to die for not doing Saturday, God would have mentioned Saturday? What if someone stood before those who killed them and he said, "I thought the seventh day was Monday, please don't kill me for thinking Monday was the seventh day and so I rested" and wack, they cut his head off being stupid and not knowing Monday from Saturday.
---Mark_V. on 7/17/11


"Speaking of tangible, Word made flesh,also the light
2 Corinthians 4:6, Jn 1:9,Jn 8:12, Jn 9:5,"-Christina on 7/16/11 I like that:o)
The Word is definitely the illuminator of the minds of men, and that Word was the catalyst for the illumination of our planet, and continues as such. For it is that Word that energized the sun and decreed it's bounds.
---Josef on 7/17/11


Gordon, Maybe you could clear something up for me.

"The fall of mankind into sin"--- was mankind, according to your theology only two people?
---atheist on 7/16/11


---Warwick on 7/16/11
If you are saying that the sabbath has always been saturday, I get your point. That sabbath was given to jews is incorrect.
that sabbath was celebrated by Jews only because it was given to moses is also incorrect. Those who left egypt were a MIXED multitude, and they all keep the sabbath.

also in every feast incuding the sabbath God has always emphasized THE STRANGER since none of the laws of God were for Israel only and there have always been none israelites Worshiping God. Examples include jethro Abraham, Job, and Balaam the former prophect of God. But the sabbath was observed before moses, and before God spoke the ten commandments and you are correct it has always been the seventh day / saturday
---francis on 7/16/11


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I do not know when man instituted Saturday as the Day of Sabbath, but do know that God never did.---Mark_V. on 7/16/11

Well that is where you are spiritually DEAD wrong

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it
Exodus 20:11 rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

THE TIME period between friday sunset and saturday sunset is BLESSED, sanctified AND made HOLY by God

No other time period is blessed and holy.

No human can make anything holy, so we cannot just take any one day in seven and make it GOD'S sabbath.

We must accept the time period whcih ONLY GOD can and has sanctified, hallowed, and blessed which is saturday
---francis on 7/16/11


As I read it, God divided the light from the darkness. I do not understand the confusion. Its all there in Gen 1:1-5. It is not about the Sun. It is about light and darkness. Possibly beyond man's comprehension. But it is right there.
---jody on 7/16/11


Warwick, I do not know when man instituted Saturday as the Day of Sabbath, but do know that God never did. What He instituted was six days of work and one day for rest, to be use for the purpose of worship of God under the Mosic Law. In Genesis the Sabbath was a celebration of God's work in creation (Gen. 2:2-3 Ex. 20:11) After the Exodus, the Sabbath expanded to a celebration of God's deliverance from oppression in Egypt (Deut. 5:15), as a result of the resurrection, the Sabbath emphasis shifted once gain. It became a celebration of the "Rest" we have through Christ who delievers us from sin and the grave (Heb. 4:1-11). Jesus was the substance that fulfilled the symbol of the Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/11


Francis you wrote "sabbath of the jews" in the NT?" Yes. Were Jews (and of course others) not celebrating the Saturday Sabbath in NT times?

The point I am now trying to make (without reference to Christians who observe the Saturday Sabbath) is that the Jews have always celebrated the Saturday Sabbath since it was Given to Moses. That is unless it was originally a different day and somebody changed it to Saturday and nobody noticed.

Do you now get my point? Unless it was changed (and there is absolutely no evidence it was) the original Sabbath day was Saturday, it was still so in NT times, therefore it must still be Saturday today?

Agree?
---Warwick on 7/16/11


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//What is troubling you and others is that nowhere does God mention what day he started creation or ended it// Mark

"there was evening and there was morning, the first day/day one"

When God created light it was the first day of creation, making it day one. It continues on to day seven, which is the length of a week. So saying Saturday is referring to the seventh day is not reading something into the passage not there but understanding what established our concept of days. Considering it says on the seventh day God rested there is no need to change what was already said being that Saturday is our seventh day.
---willa5568 on 7/16/11


Any attempt to add Saturday to the passages of Gen 1:1-2:1-3 and Exo. 20:8-11 is to corrupt the Word of God.
Second, ---Mark_V. on 7/16/11
genesis 1: 1-4 says nothing about the 7 th day or sabbath
BUT:Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD

If you think that any day other than saturday is the 7th day. Then you are in deep spiritual trouble.

Many people know that saturday is the 7th day and blessed by God as His holy day. They choose sunday because of the resurrection which is not in the bible.
---francis on 7/16/11


Christina it was my pleasure. The line "and brought forth from a particular point in space.." Would better reflect my thoughts as "and shone forth from a particular point in space." The light as related earlier was of course "brought forth" from Him.
---Josef on 7/16/11


Jerry, Josef, thank you. I thought as much myself. Josef: "He is that light from the beginning. "Let there be light" simply brought forth from Him, the light within Him." a good way of putting it.
"I believe that Spiritual aspect of Himself was concentrated tangibly, and brought forth from a particular point in space during the first three days of the restoration.
As with the clouds of Heaven and the depths of the sea. In Job 36:30 "He spread His light upon" [the earth]." Interesting thought.
Speaking of tangible, Word made flesh,also the light
2 Corinthians 4:6, Jn 1:9,Jn 8:12, Jn 9:5,
---Christina on 7/16/11


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Christina: "And what was that light if the sun was not created yet?"

Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day, neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
---jerry6593 on 7/16/11


francis, my disagreement was the adding of Saturday to the passages in Gen. 1:1-4. Warwick argued the point that something that is not in the context is adding to Scripture. Any attempt to add Saturday to the passages of Gen 1:1-2:1-3 and Exo. 20:8-11 is to corrupt the Word of God.
Second, the people were saved from the bondage of slavery but were not born of the Spirit since Deut. 29:2-4 tells us they had not been given spiritual eyes or spiritual ears to that day. They were living a life by obedience, when they disobeyed most of the time they were killed by the thousands. Sabbath was instituted because God demanded one day of rest so that the people would worship Him. It was not debatable. They were under the Law.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/11


Warwick on 7/16/11
I have read MANY of your post, and you are yet to oppose me.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

You will not see a list given in genesis of the laws of God, that is not the purpose of the book itself. Yet, if we look throughout the book, all the laes of God are there. The bible says that by the law is the knowledge of sin, and yet in genesis the bible speaks of sin: Genesis 4:7
Then we have Genesis chapter 2 where God created the sabbath and exodus 16 where those who came out fo Egypt Jews and Egyptians keep the sabbath and that is before God spoke the law or wrote it down.

"sabbath of the jews" in the NT?
---francis on 7/16/11


"And what was that light if the sun was not created yet?"
Christina, it was The light of life, illuminating from The Father of both life and light. 1Jo 1:2>Jam 1:17
Just as in the eternity "The sun shall no longer be your light by day, ... the LORD will be to you an everlasting light. " Isa 60:19>Rev 21:23>
He is that light from the beginning. "Let there be light" simply brought forth from Him, the light within Him. I believe that Spiritual aspect of Himself was concentrated tangibly, and brought forth from a particular point in space during the first three days of the restoration.
As with the clouds of Heaven and the depths of the sea. In Job 36:30 "He spread His light upon" [the earth].
---Josef on 7/16/11


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Light is fire, fire is life, all life comes from fire. The first day He released His life into the formless and void substance we call creation.
---Tony_L_Smith on 7/16/11


Josef, The rotation of the earth in relation to the light brought forth on the first day." And what was that light if the sun was not created yet?
---Christina on 7/16/11


Francis the Sabbath was originally given to Israel by God. Correct?

I called it the "Jewish Sabbath" in NT times and today to establish its continuity, not to deny that others observe the Saturday Sabbath.

My point is that the specific Sabbath Commandment was Saturday in NT times and is so now. I wrote "If it didn't begin as a Saturday when was the Saturday Sabbath brought in?"

"Was the day changed and nobody at the time noticed or commented?"

My comments are in support of the Sabbath being Saturday. Read what I wrote again after a deep breath.

Save your salvos for those who oppose you!
---Warwick on 7/16/11


Francis, AMEN!!! The 7th Day Sabbath was established right after GOD finished creating the Earth and everything on it. This was WAAAAYY before the Jews became to be. Besides, There were "strangers" (KJV) among the Hebrews that left Egyptian bondage who were a part of GOD's Hebrew people, who also received of the 10 Commandments. And, in the Book of ACTS, it shows the whole Church (both Jew and Gentile) observing regularly the 7th Day Sabbath. The 7th Day Sabbath is for ALL of GOD's people! :-)
---Gordon on 7/16/11


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--Warwick on 7/15/11
It is NOT "the Jewish sabbath," that is a blasphemous phrase, it gives to humans the glory of God

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:
Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, my holy day,, the holy of the LORD

The Sabbath is not for israelites only:
Isaiah 56:6 the sons of the stranger,.. EVERYONE that keepeth the sabbath..Even them will I bring to my holy mountain,

Sabbath has always been Saturday* Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
and known to the people of God before the ten commandments: Exodus 16:23 And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD
---francis on 7/15/11


The light Jesus made in verse 3 is the sunlight, which is the selfsame sunlight spoken of in verse 16. Jesus commanded the sun that he made to come forward and radiate over top of his earth. lit.Hb: "Then God said: Let there be light and there was light. And God saw the light, that good: and divided between the light and between the darkness, and called the light Day, and the darkness Night: and the evening was, and the morning was made the first day. And God made two great lights: A greater light for the rule of the day, and a less light to rule the night, and the stars also. And God put them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth, and to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light from the darkness."
---Eloy on 7/15/11


\\Cluny: Canwright was a Jesuit infiltrator. No intelligent person believes him.\\

Funny, because he was NEVER a Roman Catholic.

\\Sunday worship was not taught by Christ and the Apostles, and, like evolution, is thus not "orthodox". Are you?\\

The Temple and synagogues had DAILY services, and ideally Orthodoxy does, too.

\\Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ! - The one in the Bible.\\

Which is NOT the one that your Elder James White taught. He was CLEARLY an Arian.

Slava Iisusu Khristu!
---Cluny on 7/15/11


Mark I am not a Saturday Sabbath keeper but I have a question that someone may be able to answer.

We know today the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday. I believe it was also Saturday in NT times.

The Sabbath was instituted by God for the Israelites as explained in Exodus 20:8-11.

If it didn't begin as a Saturday when was the Saturday Sabbath brought in?

Was the day changed and nobody at the time noticed or commented?

---Warwick on 7/15/11


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it wasn't until it was revealed in the New T. that the gentles would be included in the Gospel of Grace. ---Mark_V. on 7/15/11
RUBBISH I already pointed out that those who left Egypt were not all jews, it was Jews and gentiles ( MIXED MULTITUDE)

and all through the bible we have OT and NT we have gentiles coming to God, and prophecies of Gentiles coming to God.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
Isaiah 56:7 for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people

1 Kings 8:41 Moreover concerning a stranger, that [is] not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake,

TRY AGAIN
---francis on 7/15/11


Breakfast and dinner.
---atheist on 7/15/11


francis, I think you don't read what is said correctly. I never said the gentiles were save after the resurrection. I said the Jews did not understand at the time the Gentiles were included in salvation. Of course some of the Old Testament saints were saved in the Old T. but not because of circumcision, but because of faith in the coming Christ. So please before you answer check what is said. Grace has been given by God from the very beginning.
---Mark_V. on 7/15/11


---Mark_V. on 7/15/11
your posts are just useless.

I don't think you even read the bible. I think you just listen to what others say and call it gospel.
" Grace only given to Gentiles in NExodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcisedT?"

You think only Jews were in the wilderness and heard the voice of God: Exodus 12:38 And a MIXED multitude went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.

You have much to learn.
I suggest 40 days at a SDA church or maybe attend a SDA crusade/ seminar ( I am not asking you to join, just learn)
---francis on 7/15/11


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Francis 2: And no, it was not you who mentioned Sunday concerning Gen. 1:1-4 there were two other people who mentioned it. Maybe you do have that speculation but others do. No reason to ever include Sunday or Saturday to the passages. What is told in the context is what the context means. The laws given later in history were for Israel. Israel always knew the laws pertain to them, and it wasn't until it was revealed in the New T. that the gentles would be included in the Gospel of Grace. All who are lost are under the Law and are condemned by the Law, we are not under that Law but under Grace and there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/15/11


francis, I was speaking concering Gen. 1:1-4. No where is Sunday or Saturday mentioned. No where are we told God did created light into existence for Sunday or Saturday. There is no reason given by God, but only that He will to do it when He did.
What is troubling you and others is that nowhere does God mention what day he started creation or ended it. So speculations are made that God wanted to say something but was not able to for some reason or another, something stopped Him, or maybe He forgot and so allegorized it later. Sorry, nothing like that are we told. You can argue the law all you want, but we are under Grace. We have been released from the slavery of the Law. We are now slaves to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/15/11


Mark_V. The first part of your post was great. We are given no reason why God created light. But light has nothing to do with sabbath. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Then you say this "Any speculations that God had a reason so that others would not worship on Sundays are speculations of man, mostly from SDA's who themselves worship only on Saturday Sabbaths, who have their own bias reasons, for no explanation is given by God"
YOU FORGOT THIS:Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Is a commandment of God good enough reason?
---francis on 7/15/11


In the context we are not given a reason why God created light into existence (Ps33:6, 148:5) all we are told that He effortlessly spoke light into existence. Any speculations that God had a reason so that others would not worship on Sundays are speculations of man, mostly from SDA's who themselves worship only on Saturday Sabbaths, who have their own bias reasons, for no explanation is given by God. It was what He willed to do otherwise He wouldn't have called light into existence.
The greater-lesser light (the sun and moon ) were created later ( 1:14-19 ) on the fourth day. God was the provider of light ( 2 Cor. 4:6) and will in eternity future be the source of light ( Rev> 21:23 ).
---Mark_V. on 7/15/11


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Cluny: Canwright was a Jesuit infiltrator. No intelligent person believes him.

Sunday worship was not taught by Christ and the Apostles, and, like evolution, is thus not "orthodox". Are you?

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ! - The one in the Bible.
---jerry6593 on 7/15/11


"As in the first days of genesis 1 there is no sun, what defines the 'morning and evening'?"
The rotation of the earth in relation to the light brought forth on the first day.
---Josef on 7/15/11


\\Clunity: It's not slander if it's true.\\

This is not true, because the Sun was not worshipped on that day.

And you've not explained why other languages do NOT call it anything like "Sunday".

Did you ever read what the former SDA minister D. M. Canwright discovered about this slander?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/14/11


Clunity: It's not slander if it's true.

"On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits, because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting, lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost" --Edict of Constantine, given the 7th day of March, [A.D. 321]
---jerry6593 on 7/14/11


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//What a pity that most Christians prefer a day dedicated to the Sun.//

What a pity that others prefer a day dedicated to Saturn.

others like days dedicated to: the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, and Venus.
---aka on 7/13/11


God created light on earth BEFORE he made the sun. ANd then god seperated darkness from light, that is how the first day was created.
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So the day is based on dark and light, not sun or no sun
---francis on 7/13/11


\\What a pity that most Christians prefer a day dedicated to the Sun.\\

This slander has been repeated over and over by the SDA. But reiteration does not make it true. Only in Germanic languages is the first day of the week named this. In most other European languages, it's called something that means "Lord's day." In Slavic languages, the name means "Resurrectinon."

jerry, why do you not believe that God works through natural processes He Himself determined?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/13/11


Peter, good to hear from you.

Since man began recording history we have had night and day, darkness followed by light. All that is necessary for this is a rotating earth, and a fixed light source. As God says there was night and day after He created light it is no jump of logic to believe He made the earth rotating right from day one. If we look at the earth from space we can see the rotating earth, with light advancing into the dark part, as the earth revolves.
---Warwick on 7/13/11


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Peter: Even God's chosen people engaged in Sun worship.

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, and they worshipped the sun toward the east. [A Sunrise service!]

God instituted evening and morning before the sun to establish the length of a day by earth rotation - independent of the sun. Thus, after six of these evening-morning days, God created a singular holy day (the Sabbath) as a memorial of His Creatorship. What a pity that most Christians prefer a day dedicated to the Sun.
---jerry6593 on 7/13/11


Warwick, I agree completely about your comment about Rev 22:5. And we must remember that, as the ancients did with the sun (worship it), we must think what creation (something created, that is) this generation may worship!
---Peter on 7/12/11


Interestingly Reveleation 22:3,4 has a message for those who say Jesus is not God, but a creature "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him."

Note that: his servants, and serve him. Both singular and referring to both God and the lamb.
---Warwick on 7/12/11


It's a nice question. I would take it that God by himself made some time have light and some time be dark, and later He made the sun.
It is a cautionary thing, for it reminds us that 'light' is not merely from the sun, and that light was before the sun.
The direct answer would have to be that God defines what is morning and evening, even without the sun
---Peter on 7/12/11


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God created light, which created night and day, before He created the sun.

Why did God leave it until the fourth day to create the sun? I believe He did so to demonstrate He can light the earth, making night and day, without the sun. That the sun is not something to be worshiped, as He knew ignorant people would do in the future.

Relevantly Revelation 22:5 says:"There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light..."
---Warwick on 7/12/11


If you read Gen. 1 it says that God said let there be light and there was, and then He divided the light from the darkness. He called the light day and the dark night. The morning is light or day and the evening is dark or night.
---Leslie on 7/12/11


Jennifer, That's a great Question! Perhaps, and I'm only speculating at this point, that since it was before the fall of mankind into sin, that GOD had a greater Light that simply emanated from some other source until He created the Sun, when things created were still of a pure nature. Of course, GOD IS Light, maybe HE was the Light Source. OR, maybe the Sun was created at that earlier time, but not specifically mentioned until during one of the later Days of creation. Don't know, yet. It makes it seem like the Scriptures contradict themselves. But, they really do not. It just means more studying needs to be done. OR, maybe GOD has not provided the Answer to that one, yet.:-)
---Gordon on 7/12/11


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