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Practicing Santa Story Biblical

Is it OK to tell the kids on Christmas that Santa is coming to bring them presents and leave them under the tree we decorate? Isn't this a violation of 1 of the ten commandments that says do not bear false witness?

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 ---Manny on 7/13/11
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Strongaxe---
You are the one who asks, "what criteria do you use to determine whether someone else is, or is not a Christian?" I said it's not our responsibility to make that determinationation.
You gave the example of "Christians" who, in your words felt no guilt over this, since their sins were forgiven . When they acted sinfully, without regard to others, because their sins were already forgiven, I said I did not deem them Christian. This is still my opinion, and I explained why. I do not otherwise care about catagorizing Christians.
---Donna66 on 7/25/11


"A person who thinks it's OK to sin, because all his sins are already forgiven, has not really grasped the truth of the Gospel. You claim that some Christians believe this. You identify them readily."-Donna66 on 7/24/11
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Joh 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
-We should get to know our brethren in Christ, not just say hi and sit beside them at assembly: we will soon find out who are our true brethren. 1Jo 2:19
---micha9344 on 7/25/11


Donna66:

It is not a matter of black and white - i.e. gratitiude vs. license. It is more of a spectrum. Some feel extreme gratitude and would rather die than sin again. Others feel total freedom to do as they please, confident all sins will be forgiven. Most lie somewhere between these two. As with any spectra like these, while it's easy to identify people near either end, it's hard to place a precise division between the two.

Between total white and total black, what color is the dividing line beween "light" and "dark"? Between 0 and a billion dollars, what is the dividing line between "rich" and "poor"? If a million makes one rich, you can't just call someone with $999,999.99 poor.
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11


Strongaxe--- What nuance?
I tried to make the distinction clear.

A person who thinks it's OK to sin, because all his sins are already forgiven, has not really grasped the truth of the Gospel. You claim that some Christians believe this. You identify them readily.

I say that a Christian is one who is SO GRATEFUL to God for forgiving their sin, that they desire to be pleasing to HIM.. They do not disregard the terrible price that Jesus paid
for them personally.

This is not some kind of "litmus" test to determine who is, or is not, a Christian...because that is not our responsibility.

Our responsibility is to expound the Good News of Salvation, to any or all, no matter what call themselves.
---Donna66 on 7/24/11


Donna66:

The problem then becomes, just what criteria do you use to determine whether someone else is, or is not a Christian? Just what does it take to disqualify one? God may be capable of filtering out ever nuance of belief and action, but we are not.
---StrongAxe on 7/24/11




Strongaxe-- As I said, I do NOT believe CHRISTIANS, even immature ones, do this.

Christians may make "excuses" for their sins (from a human standpoint), but one who has truly understood that Jesus suffered all that He did for THEM, cannot sin as if it didn't matter to God!. To even BE a Christian, one must know this much.
The fact that God has so graciously forgiven our sins doesn't mean, He no longer cares whether or not we sin! If we LOVE God we may still be imperfect, but we WANT to do what pleases HIM...
Just as a child who loves his parent wants to please him, not just avoid punishment.
---Donna66 on 7/24/11


Donna66:

Unfortunately, there are MANY Christians who DO precisely that - since they believe their sins are all covered, they don't really sweat it if they sin, since they know God will forgive them - and some may even think this gives them a license to sin.

And while I agree that mature Christians won't do this, how about immature Christians with naive understanding? Where do we draw the line between false Christians and immature ones? It's hard to do. This is why Jesus said we will always have wheat and tares, and it is NOT our job to separate them - that will be done at the Final Judgment.
---StrongAxe on 7/24/11


Strongaxe--
//Many people believe that all their sins (past, present, and future) are automatically forgiven, and have no consequences on themselves. These include Christians, Muslims waging jihad, etc....//

CHRISTIANS who believe all theirs sins have been forgiven (past present, future), believe Christ's blood covers them all... for those who trust Him as Savior! They do NOT use this as an EXCUSE to sin. Anyone who does so, is not a Christian, no matter what they may say.
---Donna66 on 7/22/11


Cluny:

Many people believe all their sins (past, present, and future) are automatically forgiven, and have no consequences on themselves. These include Christians, Muslims waging jihad, etc. All too often, such people often don't care about the consequences those sins have on others either.

Years ago, a good friend of mine who ran a Christian publishing business took a few weeks off to get married. When he returned, he found that his "christian" partners had formed a competing business, taken most of his clients, and squandered tens of thousands of dollars of his money. But of course they felt no guilt over this, since their sins were forgiven.
---StrongAxe on 7/22/11


\\cluny, don't blame baptist for what your parents, grandparents and relatives did. It is too bad their testimony was such as to make your memories believe it is baptist fault. \\

I wasn't blaming Baptists. I was blaming my family.

However, I will say that the members of my youth group in the Baptist Church where I was raised who talked about how many notches they had on their Bibles and how much Jesus meant to them were the very ones who would treat me like crap in school.

I also noticed that the leaders of Youth for Christ and such were the most disrespectful in my classes when I was teaching.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/11




\\The term "Sinter Klaas" was first known in 100 A.D. in the Netherlands. And the Initial "S" in the German word "Sinter" was later changed to "C" under the influence of the French "cendre", meaning "ashes." \\

If what you were saying were true, Eloy, we would have the form "Centre Klaus".

But we don't. Because it isn't.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/11


cluny, don't blame baptist for what your parents, grandparents and relatives did. It is too bad their testimony was such as to make your memories believe it is baptist fault. Put blame where blame goes. What is your testimony and my testimony? People are watching us at all times.
---shira3877 on 7/20/11


Cluny and Shira 3877--
I agree with you. Everything I said in my post was decidedly tongue-in-cheek. I was poking fun a little at those who consider "Santa" dangerous.
Learning to tell the difference between fiction and truth (and finding the proper place for both) is one of the tasks of growing up.
I never got Santa and Christ confused. I figured out the Santa myth at a young age.
But I still enjoyed the Santa "rituals" for a few more years. Still enjoy the memories, even now.

I believe children copy the longstanding attitudes and behavior of their parents, (though they are quick to detect duplicity).
If parents personally take God seriously, the children likely will, too
---Donna66 on 7/20/11


They were all Baptists, btw.
---Cluny on 7/20/11

Why would that make a difference? It would be just as appropriate to say that they were Eastern Orthodox, btw. Are you saying something specific to the Baptists? People that do not live for Christ can attend anywhere.

My counselor has a statement that you should learn and live by:

"Say what you mean, just don't say it mean".
---Mark_Eaton on 7/20/11


Im gonna try this again and if it doesnt get posted this time, I think it will be my last response on this website. Mods appear to be getting a little too picky.

A lie is a lie so we should stop looking for reasons to judge. If you child walks in on you and you spouse in the act of intercourse, do you tell the truth or lie about what you were doing?
---CraigA on 7/20/11


sorry to inform you but we always believed in santa as a kid but as young as I was then, never got santa and Christ confused. I know kids are smarter now so I don't see the problem except christmas has gone like everything else...greed
---shira3877 on 7/20/11


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\\If you "play" Santa, but teach kids about Jesus, they'll never be able to separate the two.\\

I did, Donna66. Weren't you able to, eventually?

However, I DID notice at an early age that my church going grandparents and relatives didn't live any differently from my NON-church-going parents. And THAT is what made me wonder about the reality of God for a while.

They were all Baptists, btw.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/20/11


Donna66:

Very young children can't tell the difference between reality and make-believe, but that sense develops gradually. It is a natural part of growing up. If children see their parents treating God in a fundamentally different way than Mickey Mouse and Santa Claus, they will learn the difference. But if they treat Santa Claus as real (for example, by signing presents as "from Santa" in their own handwriting), children will eventually discover this deception, and will reason that if their parents can lie to them about Santa, they can lie to them about God as well.
---StrongAxe on 7/20/11


Amazing some can blur the lines between "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." with "super-heroes" is an art of confusion.

One clearly uses "the name of the Lord in vain", and the other in the name of entertainment (but there are those who do worship these "super-heroes" in their own ways and not to mention they do curse using "the Lord's name" as a swear word). But if feeding your own child with lies is fine with you, you will "reap what you sow". After-all the line between truth and lie is gray, not black and white.
---christan on 7/20/11


Yes, and be careful your kids don't indulge in fantasy.
Make sure to tell them that Jimmy Neutron isn't a real boy, that Chipmunks can't really talk, and Spiderman doesn't really climb walls as it appears. Otherwise, will they figure it out and, naturally, feel betrayed because you didn't tell them otherwise.?

Certainly set an example by never watching anything on TV, yourself, except documentaries. Imagination leads to evil. so don't let it ever become "fun".

If you "play" Santa, but teach kids about Jesus, they'll never be able to separate the two. No, not even if YOU, yourself, talk to JESUS but never to Santa Claus or read books YOURSELF about JESUS, but not about Santa Claus. Kids aren't that smart!
---Donna66 on 7/19/11


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"Isn't this a violation of 1 of the ten commandments that says do not bear false witness?" Manny

YES, Manny.

There's not even a word in Scripture that tells us the birth day of Christ or that we must celebrate His birthday, let alone christmas as a tradition. There are only two mentioned birthdays in the Scripture, and they were celebrated by heathen kings (Genesis 40:20 & Matthew 14:6).

And what has santa claus to do with Christ? It's not even a real person, basically it's the golden calf of the pagans.

"They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD" Pro 11:20, "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD" Pro 12:22
---christan on 7/19/11


aka-- I agree it is up to parents to make the distinction clear. When I began to reason that the Santa story and Easter Bunny story couldn't possibly be true, My mother told me about the real St. Nicholas and the "spirit" of
Christmas. She told me why we really celebrate Easter. She explained to me about a real, not make-believe, God, whom no one could see.

As I said, my parents didn't often attend church. My mother's historical and doctrinal knowledge wasn't the best. But I never remember, for a moment, doubting the reality of God...until, that is, I got old enough to question many things my parents believed.
---Donna66 on 7/18/11


Donna66:

No, I was raised in a strict Roman Catholic home, went to Church every Sunday morning, went to Sunday School once a week (I think it was Sunday afternoons, but I can't recall).

But since i was raised to believe in an invisible God - and ALSO taught to believe in an invisible Santa and Easter Bunny, once I had figured that Santa and the Easter bunny were make-believe, it wasn't a far leap to conclude that God was as well.

This is why teaching kids about Santa without ALSO making the distinction that Santa is make-believe can be damaging to faith.
---StrongAxe on 7/17/11


Strongaxe-- You were an atheist as a child? I was taught the same things (same evidences and small deceptions). My father told me Santa would prefer popcorn to cookies...mmm.. how strange, so would daddy!
I remember no "epiphanies" when I figured out that Santa, Easter Bunny et. al. were make believe. I felt pretty "smart", even if a little disappointed. The gifts and holidays didn't stop. And just to make sure, I made it CLEAR that I still expected to tooth fairy to visit!
My parents were not church goers, but I could tell that God was someone serious to adults.
Christian parents who themselves pray and read the Bible regularly should have no fear their young children will reject faith.
---Donna66 on 7/17/11


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Donna66:

I was taught God, Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy were real, with evidence (presents, chocolate, quarters) and deception (one year, after I went to bed, my mother ate the milk and cookies, but I woke up, so she said she had a SUDDEN urge for them, so she put more out for Santa and sent me to bed again).

As I matured, I had several epiphanies. The Tooth Fairy was make-believe, as were the Easter Bunny, Santa, and ultimately God.

It was not until much later, as an adult, that I came to believe in God again. Perhaps I might have been spared a decade of atheism and agnosticism and other things, if I had not taught Santa, etc. were make-believe (like Mickey Mouse) and not real.
---StrongAxe on 7/17/11


Scott, TRUE-- I have never, ever, met an adult who said they had trouble believing in God because their parents lied to them about Santa Claus.

And I know of none who regret their participation in that Christmas.
tradition

Children love "make-believe" and before they are very old, they figure out how to tell the difference between that and reality...an important skill we all must learn.

Furthermore, as children get older they can enjoy "playing Santa" for someone less fortunate than themselves and the value of giving without taking credit themselves. ("it's from Santa"!)
---Donna66 on 7/17/11


There are cases where truth can (and should) be withheld:

When the Pharisees asked Jesus where his authority came from, he asked where John the Baptist's came from. When they refused to answer, he did also (Matthew 21:23-27, Mark 11:27-33, Luke 20:1-8). When Pilate asked Jesus to speak in his own defense, he refused. One old testament king was condemned because he honestly revealed his strengths (and weaknesses) to a rival king. And, as aka pointed out, many Christians hid Jews from Nazis.

Also: 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"
---StrongAxe on 7/16/11


//In Hebrews, Rahab the Harlot (interesting profession) is called RIGHTEOUS for lying about the Hebrew spies.//

what about the Jews in hiding during the holocaust? if you were in place to hide them, would you raise your right hand and expose them in the name of the Lord and the Fuerher?
---aka on 7/16/11


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BY the way:
Sinter Klaas is the Flemmish popular pronounciation,
St Nicolas and Father Christmass are NOT THE SAME inspite of the effort of "popular culture to mould them toghether. St Nikolaas helper is a Moor, we call him zwarte Piet (black Peter)St Nikolaas lives in or beyond Spain according our traditions, he drives a white hors and dresses as a bishop... every year he travells from spain on his gigantic ship to our regions. all thing that father christmass doesn't do.
---andy3996 on 7/16/11


i've always found St.Nikolaas celebration cruel (for that is the proper dutch pronounciation) a saint that visits the rich and forgets the poor, that drives away the true meaning of Christmass, thats not Christ-like. and i believe that the original saint would agree with me. i tell my kids the true meaning of Christmass, i tell them who st. nikolaas really was and who pays for thepresents, i put presents under a tree an celebrate well the arival of the new toys. nobody is sad everyone happy for all know that Jesus brought us all these gifts for His birthday.
finally we bring out a great cake and sing happy birthday to JESUS
GODLOVE
---andy3996 on 7/15/11


Teaching children that Santa is make-believe (and as soon as children learn the distinction between reality and fantasy after a few years) is OK. He can be relegated to the same pleasant (but fictional) status as Mickey Mouse and Spongebob Squarepants.

But teaching them that Santa is real (and deliberately resisting any evidence to the contrary) can be harmful.

Many children are taught to believe in a "trinity" of invisible beings that have supernatural powers (Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Jesus), and when they eventually learn that the first two are lies their parents told them, it is no surprise when they also conclude that the third one is as well.
---StrongAxe on 7/15/11


Manny, No it is not right to tell the lie to kids on Christmas that there is a santa. By doing so, you're out right misleading and lying to the child. I suggest sharing the historical truth of Christ being born on Christmas day with the children.
---Eloy on 7/15/11


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\\endless SPIN to dismiss Holy Scripture claiming some LIES are good??\\

In Hebrews, Rahab the Harlot (interesting profession) is called RIGHTEOUS for lying about the Hebrew spies.

Or is Hebrews missing from your Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/15/11


Rhonda:

While lying is reprehensible (and, as you say, condemned in several places), I don't believe the law of Moses prescribes any penalties for it. The Ten Commandments forbid "bearing false witness against your neighbor", which is worse than ordinary lying because it actively harms someone else by potentially subjecting them to penalties for crimes they did not commit.


Eloy:

You said: The term "Sinter Klaas" was first known in 100 A.D. in the Netherlands. Since the earliest form of Dutch didn't exist until at least 450-500 A.D., where did you hear this? If you have an actual source (rather than just your opinion), I and others would very much like to hear it.
---StrongAxe on 7/15/11


Christmas in July. I love it! Never too early to stir up Holiday trouble, I guess.
---John.usa on 7/15/11


\\Proverbs and Psalms must be missing from YOUR version\\

And the Bible disagrees with almost everything you say on anything, Rhonda.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/14/11


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\\The term "Sinter Klaas" was first known in 100 A.D. in the Netherlands.\\

Can you show any evidence for this claim, Eloy?

I've asked you several times, and you've ignored my request, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Inquiring minds want to know!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/14/11


the commandment about not bearing false witness is about spreading slander about others or swearing falsely.
****

Proverbs and Psalms must be missing from YOUR version

Holy Scripture states ...Lying lips are abomination to the Lord... Psa 12:22

A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it... Proverbs 26:28

bearing false witness is LYING ...tell a LIE to someone you HATE them per Scripture

endless SPIN to dismiss Holy Scripture claiming some LIES are good??

I see no difference in a lying christian and a lying sinner ...one just has a "christ" dripping from their lips in vain Matt 15:8
---Rhonda on 7/14/11


Eloy, were I to become your kind of Christian, would I be as learned in ancient languages, especially non-existent ones, as you?

Dutch didn't exist in the 100's.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/14/11


false religions and idolaters try to give creedance to false myths by misassociating nonrelated historical people to the myth. The term "Sinter Klaas" was first known in 100 A.D. in the Netherlands. And the Initial "S" in the German word "Sinter" was later changed to "C" under the influence of the French "cendre", meaning "ashes." And refers to Old Nick sliding down the chimney's of soot and ashes and coals. No catholic idolater had any relevance to the Sinter Klaas myth, for Sinter Klaas is proven to be 100% falsehood, along with the elves in the North Pole, and also the flying reindeer. Get back to the Bible people, and back to The Truth.
---Eloy on 7/14/11


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Manny, "Santa Claus" is derived from Dutch and German, "Sinter Klaas" < "Sinter Nikolaas", meaning "Cinder Nick" or "Old Nick", "Nacht demon", "the devil", "satan". The false Santy Claus cannot replace the true Jesus Christ.
---Eloy on 7/14/11


Why tell worldly and feeble lies? when the truth about Jesus Christ Almighty is much more fantastic.
---Eloy on 7/14/11


\\Santa = Saint Nick or in 1600's Old Nick or Satan (the devil).\\

Wrong again, Leslie. Doesn't it bother you to pop off about things of which you clearly know nothing?

Santa Claus is the Americanization of the Dutch Sinter Klas, their form of the name St. Nicholas, whose feast day is 6 December. I've already mentioned St. Nicholas briefly here.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 7/13/11


My children know there is no santa claus & neither do we celebrate the worldly view of christmas. It is wrong to tell a lie to the children no matter how fun the holiday is.
---Candice on 7/13/11


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Scott...Yes. When children ask where babies come from they need the true answer. Why would you lie to your child? As far as Santa, I don't believe in teaching the world's Christmas traditions. Jesus is the reason for the season.
---KarenD on 7/13/11


can we take a break from this topic? we have to endure two months of it every year in every other blog, in every manner, and the same people say the same things in the same manner.

truly, i say to you: there are those who will Jesus will recognize despite their own error, and there will be those that He shuns despite their own perfection.
---aka on 7/13/11


First off, the commandment about not bearing false witness is about spreading slander about others or swearing falsely.

I think it would be more to the point to tell children that Santa Claus is a game we play at Christmas.

Also, tell them about the REAL St. Nicholas of Myra, who was a great Christian bishop, defender of the true faith of the Incarnation, and a wonderworker.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/13/11


I feel that if we tell our kids that Santa is real & Jesus/God is real, then they realize we fibbed about Santa it will put doubt in their minds about God as well. Another reason for not telling them that Santa is real, I personally was sooo disappointed when I realized the truth. The magic of Christmas was not the same. I told my daughter the story of Santa & told her that it was a fun pretend game that people practised but that was all. She grew up knowing the full story & never doubted God's existence. Always tell children the truth. Let them know the difference in reality & fiction/fun.
---Reba on 7/13/11


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When they ask were babies come from when they are 5 or so are you going to tell them the truth. Will you let them play or watch superman, teenage mutant ninja turtles, science fiction shows, the movie Elf. Santa is there for imagination and wonder. Kids are stronger and smarter than you think. Santa is a kind of game for kids. It is not a breaking a commandment.
---Scott on 7/13/11


Santa = Saint Nick or in 1600's Old Nick or Satan (the devil). Tree = pagan idol worship in the Bible. So yes it is WRONG to do these things. Not only is it a lie but also idolatry and Satan worship according to the Bible.
---Leslie on 7/13/11


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