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Are Demons Fallen Angels

Are demons (unclean spirits) fallen angels?

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 ---Leon on 7/18/11
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Many here think demons are fallen angels. Does the Bible say that? In Matt. 25:41-45 Jesus specifically addressed the "goats" (lost people who always "but'" up against God's Truth). "Everlasting fire" (41) was made for the devil & his angels, but lost human souls (demons) are also destined to join them in it.

Scripture says humans who follow the devil (satan: the slanderer & false accuser) are themselves devils/demented (fallen, unclean/unholy spirits). Goats live like hell on earth & their infectious spirits (legions) are resident in (possess) many of their earthly adherents long after they've died, e.g., Hitler & neo-Nazis, & founders of world religions & cults.
---Leon on 8/6/11


Jerry, I agree the flood was universal. But is a good question. When the writers speak in Scripture they either speak from their perspective, or from God's perspective. Concerning the flood it's difficult to know what perspective Gen. 6-9 was intended to be understood, noumenologically ( God's perspective) or phenomenologically ( the writers perspective). If the phrases "all flesh died" and "all the high hills were covered" is understood noumenologically (God's perspective), a universal flood is implied. If understood from man's perspective, "all the animals I could observe died" and "all the high hills I could observe were covered." The traditional interpretation is from God's perspective.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/11


Many here think demons are fallen angels. Does the bible say that? In Matt. 25:41-45, Jesus specifically addressed the "goats" (lost people who always "but'" up against God's Truth). "Everlasting fire" (41) was made for the devil & his angels, but lost human souls (demons) are also destined to join them in it.

Scripture says humans who follow the devil (satan: the slanderer & false accuser) are themselves devils/demented (fallen, unclean/unholy spirits). Goats live like hell on earth & their infectious spirits (legions) are resident in (possess) many of their earthly adherents long after they've died, e.g., Hitler & neo-Nazis, & founders of world religions & cults.
---Leon on 8/6/11


Trav: "There is no support scientifically or Biblically for a Global flood."

You could not be more completely wrong!

Are you a Christian - a follower of Jesus? Did you know that Jesus believed in the universal flood of Noah?

Have YOU done any scientific investigation on fossil layer depositions? Explain the missing precursors in the PreCambrian layer. Explain the existence of marine fossils on the highest mountains. Explain the large unconformities, the polystrate trees, and the large-to-small gravel sorting in each layer if you can.

Then explain why Jesus didn't know what He was talking about.
---jerry6593 on 8/6/11


Craig: I understand your point. In the latter days, some will depart from the faith....the love of some will grow cold..However, the mystery remains regarding the "elect". Bible says that God can "make him stand" when referring to individuals who are drifting or "fallen". Jesus was given his "elect" before the foundation of the world. The key is "faith working through love". I agree with Jerry that demons are fallen angels.
---jody on 8/5/11




Scientific evidence supports the Bible's account of a universal flood - not the long age deposition theories associated with evolution. Evolution is supported only by wild conjecture and outright fraud.
---jerry6593 on 8/3/11

There is no support scientifically or Biblically for a Global flood.
Rather the opposite is found by any willing to do the research.

There is doctrinal support, for global.
This doctrinal support interestingly discards many other parts of scripture it doesn't want to deal with also.
---Trav on 8/5/11


Yes, demons are fallen angels. One third of them were kicked out of heaven.

Relevation is highly symbolic rather than poetic, and that to prevent persecution of those who had copies.

Scientific evidence supports the Bible's account of a universal flood - not the long age deposition theories associated with evolution. Evolution is supported only by wild conjecture and outright fraud.
---jerry6593 on 8/3/11


Craig, the calling of God goes out to the world, to all nations. And many will reject it for sure. It does not mean they had more power then the Spirit. It only means they are not willing to come to Christ. They have to be made willing by the Spirit. He does this first by making him alive to Christ. He eyes will see, his ears will hear and he will understand the gospel of his salvation. The Spirit will change his heart first then grants him faith and repentance. And he comes with open arms to Christ with faith and will repent, and commit his life to Christ.
Without the work of the Spirit he won't understand spiritual truth. Read Deut. 29:1-4 to understand that God has to give them the ability.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/11


I will never understand why you guys STOP right there and ignore the rest of scripture.

It says right in the book of Hebrews that a man can harden himself against the Spirit.. The Holy Spirit himself says so! How can you deny that and claim your belief is from the Spirit of Truth?

So yes, the Father does draw men to the Son by the Holy Spirit (otherwise they would remain blind), but just as scripture declares men can resist that calling. As frigtening as that may be, its certainly scriptural.

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near
---CraigA on 8/2/11


Trav, I'm impress with what you said on your last two statements. That was very good. Concerning athiest, I didn't know he was raise a Christian. Many times when a child is raised a Christian they begin to hear about God very early in life, and so many things they do not understand while so young, so they rebel against the system, where others who have grown up and understand better, they hear the Word and they understand it but don't make a committment, for the simple reason you stated. They have to be drawn by God. Made willing by the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 8/2/11




Neither did his apostles. I seem to recall Christ having to explain the meaning of the parables to them as well. They were just as confused as the unbelieving.
---CraigA on 7/28/11

Part of the difference here was that the Apostle's asked him.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened.

They were drawn to Christ, by GOD. The others were not.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.
---Trav on 8/1/11


atheist,

So to can it be said that those promoting evolution are "well read, had a vivid imagination, a poetic flare, and (are) really quiet off (their) head" being that a great deal of it is so far fetched. I suppose the answer comes down to this, do we believe men who have no proof for the events with creation in the past or future, though they hypothesis what they are and will be, or do we believe men who claim to have had a revelation from God and say creation is the proof? Neither are science, but one is certainly true. Truth is not always present through what you see but it is still there and most definitely will be seen as the past proves.
---willa5568 on 7/29/11


Is this how you treat all unbelievers? Who is to say Atheist wont become a believer in the future?
Why would he believe in a god that doesnt even want to save him?
---Jasheradan on 7/29/11

You are a little late in his game. He believes, this is why he comes here. He was raised Christian.
He has questions the many of us have or had. He seeks answers for those questions by provocation.

His minor hindrance in debate or acceptance is his laziness or unwilling to research what he condemns. GOD does the drawing. No one here is big enough to stand in GOD's way. Atheist is very intelligent, in his provocation of the gravel for Gold. He just doesn't know how to test it for purity yet.
---Trav on 7/29/11


Jesheradan, you suddenly appeared again just for me. Funny, how you suddenly appear to oppose my views. Even when my stance is for the Lord. Don't be scared to expose yourself, I promise I won't speak to you the same.
And yes, that is how I speak to athiest who speak against my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If he is going to be saved later on by God, it will not be by my words, but by God's Word. But while he is not saved I will treat him as he treats my Lord and point him in the direction he is already heading, to hell, even though he does not believe it.
---Mark_V. on 7/29/11


atheist, you are at it again. I challenge you to find a poet that can even come close to what God has inspired man to write...not only in Revelation but the whold Word of God. No poet, no man, no historian, no one can even come close to writing in the same matter that our Holy Scriptures are written.
---shira3877 on 7/29/11


//"For God has not appointed "us" (believers) to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9). Which means that those who reject the Lord by laughing at Him, will obtain the wrath they deserve. So laugh all you want.
---Mark_V. on 7/29/11 //


Is this how you treat all unbelievers? Who is to say Atheist wont become a believer in the future? I have seen many atheists converted after fighting the truth for years.

All your election garbage is doing is driving him further from Christ. Why would he believe in a god that doesnt even want to save him?

Are you sure youre working for Christ or against him?
---Jasheradan on 7/29/11


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athiest, it was John who wrote the book of Revelation. He was inspired by God to write what he wrote. Since you don't believe in God in the first place, this means nothing to you. You are denying the Lord on your own authority. And laugh at what He wanted to be written by His authority. Hell will be filled with people who refused God and laughed at God and His children.
"For God has not appointed "us" (believers) to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9). Which means that those who reject the Lord by laughing at Him, will obtain the wrath they deserve. So laugh all you want.
---Mark_V. on 7/29/11


Mark and Legends,

Why not just agree that whoever wrote Revelation, was well read, had a vivid imagination, a poetic flare, and was really quiet off his head. Imagine what he could make today as a Hollywood screenwriter?
---atheist on 7/26/11


MarkV,
I agree that for the most part the translators(all the translations I've read) did a great job. The more translations one reads, the clearer overall picture you see of the original intent of the "writers"(messengers of God whether they be NT apostles or OT prophets).
But, there are points of contention where translators did not get it right. As I've said before, one of the most glaring examples is Revelation chapters 2 and 3. The word ANGEL does not convey the original intent of God and the Apostle John. The word should have been MESSENGER.
Can we at least start there as a point of agreement? Or do you agree with the translators use of the word Angel?
---Legends on 7/26/11


Legends, the translators did a great job. They could have used "messengers" only, we would have known by reading the context whether they were human or not. In fact, where we see angels we know they meant angels because of the context. By making "messengers" exclusive, and not angels, where the context calls for angels, many of the passages would lose the proper meaning God wanted to convey to the reader. The translators knew that. The Bible Truth is not in question, for if we question it by our standards, we might as well change what we want.
2 Peter 2 is talking about fallen angels, who sinned and were sent to "Tartarus" reserved for the most wicked human beings, gods, and demons.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/11


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Mark,
My point:
In EVERY instance translators translated aggelos as angels, they COULD'VE used MESSENGERS and the context would've confirmed as fact, God meant "spiritual angels" in that PARTICULAR verse.
Very wisely, Young's Literal Translation does this.
BUT, by translators improperly using ANGELS instead of MESSENGERS in 2Pet2,Jude and Revelation chap2-3, it's caused this disagreement we have today. These PARTICULAR contexts are about humans not spiritual angels. Jude's context reveals the error of the translators. So does 2Peter and Revelation chapt2 and3. The Bible confirms it's own truth... always!
---Legends on 7/25/11


Here's a view of Young's Literal without the numbering system:

"and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy, messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept" Jude5-6
"wo to them! because in the way of Cain did go on, and to the deceit of Balaam for reward they did rush, and in the gainsaying of Korah they did perish." Jude11
---Legends on 7/25/11


Craig,
You miss the point. There are billions of devout Muslims and those of other faith that believe in god. But they do it in using different scripture and have different beliefs. What happens to them, how does your god inform them? why hasn't he?
---atheist on 7/24/11

You must ask others, because you're too frightened to look yourself. Showing believe enough to be afraid.

Matt 15:24.
Matthew 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

26The lambs are for thy clothing, and the goats are the price of the field.

22Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.
---Trav on 7/25/11


Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:
Rom 10:16-18 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Psalms 19:1-4
The truth is there if one decides to seek it.
---micha9344 on 7/25/11


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--What happens to them, how does your god inform them? why hasn't he?--atheist

What makes you so sure he hasnt informed them and they turned a deaf ear to the truth?

Maybe he has some, maybe others have yet to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. Maybe some have heard it and have been shown a hateful Jesus by those who claim to be his followers.

Ive seen Christian churches that made me sick to my stomach. But that doesnt change my view of who Christ is. If they dont live and teach the way He did in the gospels, then they arent His church.
---CraigA on 7/25/11


Legends, again you are using one word, here "aggelos" to mean one thing, just as others use one word like ( world) to mean one thing. I do have many Bibles, but my answers were from my Lexicons of words in Heb. and Grk. And the word also means "spiritual angels"
And you did not answer why hell was prepared for Satan and his angels. You did a lot of double wording there. If they are heading to hell, and hell was prepared for them as Jesus tells us, then could you not understand they were not godly? That the reason they are going there is because they are fallen? What other reason would they be heading to hell? Because God wanted godly angels to go to hell? Nonesense.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/11


Legends 2: You also said "-Satan sent a MESSENGER(aggelo) through the THORN in the flesh/ 2Cor12:7."
Legends, this angel was a demon, or an angel, a messenger of satan, but was sent by God to keep Paul humble. thorn on the side was not physical illness." This demon was indwelling the ring leader of the Corinthian conspiracy, the leader of the false apostles. Through them he was tearing up Paul's beloved Church and thus driving a painful stake through Paul. Support for this view comes from the context of chapters 10-13.
Finally, Of the 188 uses of the Grk word, "aggellos" in the New T. at least 180 are in reference to angels.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/11


Craig,

You miss the point. There are billions of devout Muslims and those of other faith that believe in god. But they do it in using different scripture and have different beliefs. What happens to them, how does your god inform them? why hasn't he?
---atheist on 7/24/11


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pt1
prepared for the devil and his angels(aggelos) Matt25:41

This verse says absolutely nothing about angels that were formerly godly angels, without combining traditional interpretations to accomplish it. Other scriptures show us aggelos that were NEVER godly angels at all.
-Satan sent a MESSENGER(aggelo) through the THORN in the flesh/ 2Cor12:7.
-The 10 plagues referred to as EVIL ANGELS(MALAK)/ Psalm78.
-Also wind and fire are referred to as angels(MALAK) of God.
"Making His MESSENGERS--the winds, His ministers--the flaming fire.-Psalm 104:4 Young's Literal
Wind/fire aren't spirit beings with wings but they do carry messages for God, potentially making SOME NATURAL winds and SOME NATURAL fires MESSENGERS!
---Legends on 7/24/11


pt2
In every instance the Grk AGGELOS and Hebrew MALAK is used, it can be translated MESSENGERS. (MarkV, this could mean angels OR some other form of messenger. Human,wind,fire or plagues) Context surrounding the word determines correct interpretation. NOT the King James or any other translation team. They make mistakes people run with for centuries! SEE JW'S.
Context points out mistakes in every case.
BUT in every instance that translators used ANGELS translated from aggelos, it's certainly not always consistant with context that angels were intended by GOD.
BEST example: ANGEL(AGGELO) in the 7 letters to the churches in the Book of Revelation. This is clearly a bad translation that should have been MESSENGER.
---Legends on 7/24/11


-- So does anyone who believes in god differently than yourself just wrong? Does your god inform all people in the same way, but only some listen correctly according to you?
---atheist on 7/22/11

Most of us believe as according to scripture that God reveals himself in Christ to each person at the right time. But even as scripture declares some resist that calling to salvation. They dont want anything to turn them away from the sin they so love.

Each Christian has been where you are at one point in their life.
---CraigA on 7/23/11


athiest, as to your question, I don't know what you think or what you deny. I know what Scripture tells us. And I know you are an athiest because you say you are one. I can only answer to what I read on line and what I read from Scripture. You also said,
"Does your god inform all people in the same way, but only some listen correctly according to you?"
No athiest, the Spirit reveals the word to some in time, and to some now. That is why some listen but do not understand yet, what others already do.
The real question is, "who do you believe Jesus is now?" If you answer He is the Son of the living God, then the Father has revealed it to you.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11


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Leon, I wanted to say that I love the blogs and the answers you and many others put up or answer to. I loved Shawn T answers because when he answered he answered like no other here and I had to read it and study it very carefully. His answers were posted so carefully with a goldy sense of words.
Talking and discussing the matters of faith only give me more of an incentive to look and search more for the Truth each day. It's a great feeling. Keep it going.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11


Leon, John 8:42-44 refers to Jews who claimed they were children of Abraham by lineage. Jesus told them if God was their Father they would love Him. But they wanted to kill Him. They did not understand Jesus speech because Jesus was refering to the spiritual children of Abraham when He said, "If you were Abrahams children you would do the works of Abraham."
Believers are children of God and hear Jesus speech, unbelievers are children of the devil. "He who is of God hears God's words," these guys could not hear, or understand, that's why Jesus said, "therefore you do not hear because you are not of God" I tried to tell Paul the blogger that only the children of God hear Gods words.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/11


I do not understand how you think you known what I think, believe or deny. Thinking that I think I know what others think without them telling me is unthinkable,---at least to me. And your bible quote does not help a bit.

But, let's supposed there is a person who is not an atheist and in fact believes in god. After talking with him you determine that he's got a lot wrong. Would this person, like myself, know the true god but deny him? So does anyone who believes in god differently than yourself just wrong? Does your god inform all people in the same way, but only some listen correctly according to you?
---atheist on 7/22/11


I dont believe in Santa Claus but I sure wouldnt spend countless hours arguing against Santa...

Mark has a point, atheist. You KNOW there is a God, you just suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Even unbelievers instinctively know they are under the wrath of God.

My question is, why would you choose to remain that way? God doesnt want you to pay for your sins, his Son already has. Perfection is never a requirement to be a follower of Christ. Its what we strive for, but fall short of all the time. Its about love, forgiveness and mercy, without which ALL of us would be doomed. God is not the tyrant the enemy would have you believe. If you sincerely want a relationship with Him, I assure you that you will not be dissappointed.
---CraigA on 7/22/11


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"The reason I say the "angels" mentioned in the epistle of Jude are not angels but the children of Israel is because Jude didn't write the word "angels" in the Greek language. He wrote the Greek word AGGELOS, best translated MESSENGERS."
Legends, that same greek word is used through out the N.T. for angels who are of course messengers. In the N.T. "Aggelos" is only translated "messenger" seven times, and each time it clear within contexts that the word is used in reference to men, except perhaps in 2 Cor 12:7. Why do you think the word as used by Jude is used any differently than Jesus used it in Mat 25:41? Legends, Who is jesus referring to in Mat 25:41? Or Peter in 2Pe 2:4?
---joseph on 7/23/11


Legends, "Aggelos" has several meanings, one definition is Messengers, but when it is a human messenger, Scripture will indicate that, as in ( Matthew 11:10 ). Aggelos also means spiritual angels, whether good ( Matt. 24:36: Mark 13:32 ) and also evil angels, written as angels in (Matt.25:41: 1 Cor. 6:3 ) for angels are always spoken of in the masc. gender.

In Jude, it says angels, and not messengers.
If you took the word "anggelo" and apply it to every word where it say angel and said it always means human messengers or children of Israel, then you would have to change the meaning of many passages, where angels appeared.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11


"Who is Jesus referring to in Mat. 25:41, or Peter in 2:47?"
Legends, disregard these questions. I now see that you have already answered below. Thanks
---joseph on 7/23/11


athiest, you said to me,

"If believing that demons exist is a prerequisite for believing in god"

No, it is not a prerequisite to belief in demons in order to believe in God. But God told us that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."
You see, you are without excuse. You know already there is a God but you suppress the Truth. You keep telling yourself, there is no God, but you already know in your heart there is.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/11


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joseph, "their food was able to sustain the Israelites in the wilderness. Psa.78:25" Ok, I see that. TY!
---chria9396 on 7/22/11


The reason I say the "angels" mentioned in the epistle of Jude are not angels but the children of Israel is because Jude didn't write the word "angels" in the Greek language. He wrote the Greek word AGGELOS, best translated MESSENGERS. Human messengers that sinned(children of Israel,10 spies with evil report,Korah,Dathan,Abiram) fits the context better than actual "angels". There is NO clear proof of angels rebelling against God mentioned by Jesus,Apostles or OT prophets. That's why Jude can't be speaking of angels sinning. Not in the OT, not in the NT!
"...and the messengers that sinned" is a continuation of the same thought in the previous verse. The sentence doesn't stop and isn't numbered in Greek.
---Legends on 7/22/11


Mark_V: I should've referenced John 8:42-44, not Luke... Thx for pointing my error out to me.

Demons are "devils". Jesus was clearly citing evil (devilish) people for their daily practice of demonic activity. Devilish people plant the seed of their ways in the hearts/minds of people who follow them. My point is when the seed grows, it takes root & becomes a form of possession that oftentimes resides in followers long after the death of their devilish (generally occultic) leaders.
---Leon on 7/22/11


Mark: Athiest, if you don't believe in God, how could you possibly believe in demons or the devil. .... With God nothing is impossible.

If believing that demons exist is a prerequisite for believing in god, then that in itself is a good reason not to believe in god. I think that for our survival, it would be valuable to give up superstitions and mythologies and be a little more skeptical about everything we chose to believe.

OOOH! There goes that tooth faerie again. Do they bite?
---atheist on 7/22/11


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Legends, I don't understand why you say the angels in Jude are the children of Israel. They were never called angels. Also, if Jesus says, hell is prepared for satan and his angels, doesn't that mean this angels and satan are fallen? If they are not fallen why are they going to hell? Could Jesus be wrong? Could He have deceived us?
Third, the reason the flood came was because of the sin of the people. Not the sin of angels, for nothing is mention on that either. In Jude (v.8,10) is refering to the Apostate teachers, which are mentioned again in (v. 12,14,16,19) dreamers defiling the flesh, and rejecting authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. He is not speaking of angels. This apostates are blinded by satan (1 Cor. 2:14, 2 Cor. 4:4 ).
---Mark_V. on 7/22/11


" is it possible that although they manifest tangibly, their normal state of being is intangible? " Of course it possible. One reason that I believe they are beings with actual bodies is the fact that their food was able to sustain the Israelites in the wilderness. Psa.78:25 However I may be taking this too literally. To be honest, I know nothing first hand of angels or demons. I have never knowingly experienced either of them, and the bible does not go into specifics concerning them. Anything I write concerning their being is/would be speculative. "I know they are real, and not to play with." Amen to that:o)
---joseph on 7/22/11


Leon, I could not find anything you explained in Luke 8:42-44. As I said before, human beings are not demons or angels by nature. They can be possess by demons. We have Jesus talking to a demon many times and casting them out of the person. In Luke 8:30 we know there were many demons in this one person, but Jesus spoke to one and asked him:
"saying, What is your name?" And he said Legion, because many demons had entered the men possessed. And even more, the demons knew Jesus had power over them, when they begged Jesus not to "command them to go out into the abyss" (v. 31). Later this same person who had been possessed was now seated at the feet of Jesus, now clothed and in his right mind.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/11


"The only reason I even considered commenting on "demons" is because Jesus Himself acknowledged their existence, influence, and ability to physically possess a man." Very true.
"Angels eating, drinking and Interacting with humans tells me that they not only manifest tangibly, they are tangible, simply residing in a different dimension" While I would tend to agree, is it possible that although they manifest tangibly, their normal state of being is intangible?
"Demons, If not angels, who? what?" I simply do not know. If the Lord wishes to reveal that, ok, if not, I don't believe I ought to seek into it further then what is written. His Word suffices. I know they are real, and not to play with.
---chria9396 on 7/22/11


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"Joseph: I can't share your view." I know and understand.
"I'm not so sure about this one joseph. I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions, much of which I am sure is led of the Lord." Thank you chria9396.
" but don't wish to focus TOO much on demons." Neither do I. The only reason I even considered commenting on "demons" is because Jesus Himself acknowledged their existence, influence, and ability to physically possess a man. Angels eating, drinking and Interacting with humans tells me that they not only manifest tangibly, they are tangible, simply residing in a different dimension. Therefore I doubt if they are, or can, physically enter into anyone. Demons, If not angels, who? what?
---joseph on 7/21/11


Mark_V: "...you could call them devils." Jesus did call evil people "devils", i.e., Luke 8:42-44. They're possessed by their father, the devil, and spend their time on earth seeking to possess other people (spiritually & physically).

When you say "demons" you seem to mean "fallen angels" ONLY. That's where we differ significantly. I believe there are two classes of devils/demons, i.e., fallen angels & unrepentant sinners/ lost humanity.

The Bible says evil people (sinners) will get worse n worse in time. They're "unclean spirits" who choose not to be washed in the blood of Jesus & become new creatures in Christ. Yes, they are devils/"DEMONS"!
---Leon on 7/21/11


Mark,
That's the Mark I love and respect!!!
It was a very stern, clearly worded disagreement that would only aggravate an immature or prideful blogger. I'm working on not being either.

pt1
"I will put you in remembrance, how the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them and the aggelos(actual greek word written by Jude, meaning MESSENGERS) which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude5,6
Numbers and punctuations were added by translators. What we know as verse 5 and 6 is actually a continuation of the same thought and it's obvious all the way to verse 16 of Jude.
---Legends on 7/21/11


pt2
Jude didn't address something that can't be found in the OT. He addressed the Exodus. MESSENGERS(aggelos/ improperly translated as angels) were the Israelites. Any way you wish to interpret it, there's no OT reference of angels leaving Heaven.
BUT contextually:
-Israelites left their 1st estate being EGYPT. Sinned and judged.
-They left the presence sinned and judged.
-10 of 12 spies(messengers) LEFT THE PROMISED LAND, sinned by giving a bad report and were judged.
-Korah left the his occupation of censor bearer in the presence of God to complain and lead a rebellion against the higher authority. He and his family were all buried in a dark abyss!

Look in the OT!
Humans sinning... yes.
Angels sinning... NO!
---Legends on 7/21/11


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yes, they are french: "de mon", en "de woman", they go to geether en have "de bebe"...I jest.
---Eloy on 7/21/11


Legends, I am not trying to demean what you said, only that what you said is not found in Scripture. I hope I didn't sound bad this time like I did before. you and I can go back and forth if you like.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/11


Legends, as you said, you would have to add to Scripture to believe what you just said, that contextually this were children of Israel in Jude and 2 Peter. Then you say, they (the children of God you mentioned in Jude and 2 Pete) left,
"The first estate(dwelling place) of humankind is the presence of God." I do not find that either for those passages in the context. Then you go as far as saying,
angels don't sin, which is even worse since we know there are angels that are fallen because they sinned. All that can be found in the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11


"the dragon and his angels fought back. The great dragon ,Satan, was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

You have to ADD to scripture to say Revelation12 teaches 1)Satan is an angel or former angel of God. 2) Satan's "angels"(better translated as "messengers" Grk/aggelos) are FORMER angels of God.

Jude and 2Peter are both contextually referring to the children of Israel as the "messengers" that sinned by NOT "keeping"(greek/TEREO: guarding against loss or theft) their first estate.
The first estate(dwelling place) of humankind is the presence of God. An entire generation of Israelites did not enter the promised land because of this sin. Angels don't sin!
---Legends on 7/20/11


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Leon, your interpretation of some humans is understood since many are so evil you could call them devils. But God created everything to its own nature. Human beings are different then demons. What I've learned through study that God restrains sin to the limit He so desires for His own purpose and will. If He didn't, man would be so evil they would kill each other. We are not as evil as we can be. We are much worse. Many do not think so, they have fallen man righteous, without the righteousness of Christ. That's how bad it's gotten. What happens is, man takes pride in who he is, and the enmity they still poccess against God. And somehow create a god that fits their believes and by doing so, they compromise the Truth of the Word of God to a lie.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11


Mark_V: You've presented some really good, Bible responses & have kinda sorta answered my question. Many bloggers imply demons are just fallen angels. Where does it say that in the Bible? Jesus specifically addresses the "goats" (lost humanity) in Matt.25: 41-45. Though "everlasting fire" (41) was made for the devil & his angels, lost human souls are also destined to join them in the fire.

I believe Scripture says created beings who follow the devil (satan: the slanderer & false-accuser) are themselves devils/demons (fallen, unclean/unholy spirits). Goats live like hell on earth & their infectious spirits are resident in (possess) many of their adherents long after their death.
---Leon on 7/20/11


Leon - I gave scripture saying that demons are fallen angels, yet you argue it and call God a LIAR. Why bother giving scripture, when you will not believe it anyway.
---Leslie on 7/20/11


Leon - The Bible DOES support fallen angels (demons) comming into a person - read ALL the Gospels, and see how many times Jesus cast demons out of people and how many times He tells His disciples (now us if we follow Jesus) to do the same. Also read Acts to Revelation and see how many times Paul and others dealt with demons in people. Oh, but you think the Bible is just fairy tales, I forgot.
---Leslie on 7/20/11


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Leon, I hope I helped in my answer. Scripture also indicates we will judge angels. I really don't know how or when. ( 1 Cor. 6:3 ) The one's Jesus mentioned were fallen since they were going to everlasting fire, (Matt. 25:40-45). One difference with fallen angels is there is no Atonement for them. The Atonement of Christ is only for mankind. We are also told to show our brotherly love, and not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels" (Heb. 13:2) Now this (angels) might not refer to real angels, but very good and kind people, using a figure of speech, I say this because I'm not positive.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11


Leon, the lost or fallen angels are those who Jesus mention's in Matt. 25:41, when He mention's the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The celestial beings or godly angels, never speak evil against satan or his angels. Unlike false teachers who are defiant toward a higher powers, the holy angels so revere their Lord that they will not speak insults against any authority. Even the archangel Michael, recognizing the great presence and power of satan, refused to speak evil of him but called on the Lord to do so. And no believer should be so boldly foolish as to mock or command the power of supernatural demons, especially satan. Yet, we see many here on site say they do. ( 2 Peter 2:10,11: Zech 3:2, Jude 6 ).
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11


I'm not so sure about this one joseph. I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions, much of which I am sure is led of the Lord. I will look into it some, but don't wish to focus TOO much on demons. I've only seen 2 references thus far in the OT, more in the NT...with references to unclean spirits and tied in with idolatry. At least until now, that much has sufficed.
---chria9396 on 7/19/11


Leslie: 2 Pt. 2:4 & Rev. 12:7-9 say absolutely nothing about fallen angels (God created spirits) being demons (unclean, foul, lewd spirits).

Joseph: I can't share your view. The Bible doesn't support the idea that created angel "spirits" can, at will, create bodies of flesh to indwell & make children with human females. However, I do believe humans possessed by demons can mate with other humans. But, again I ask, what are demons if the Bible doesn't specifically say they're fallen angels?

I believe the Gen. 6 "Sons of God" were men in Seth's lineage who foolishly mated with the (superficially beautiful & manipulative, but vile) women in the line of Cain. The end result was disasterous!
---Leon on 7/19/11


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"Are demons (unclean spirits) fallen angels?"
No. Those angels are bound according to Jude1:6.
'I believe' the "Demons" or "unclean spirits" to be the disembodied essence of the Nephilim, the offsprings of the Fallen. Since their bodies were destroyed in the flood, and their hybrid essence would have found no place with the Father, 'I believe' that they are bound to "walk through dry places seeking rest," and ways of manifesting themselves.
The reason I believe as I do is because I believe the "Sons of God" in Gen 6 to be "the angels of Jude 1:6. and the women to be "the daughters of men," Strongs 120 adam, mankind as a whole, as opposed to Cain 7014, an individual.
---joseph on 7/19/11


Leon - Here are some scriptures where it talks about Satan and demons being fallen angels cast out of Heaven (2 Peter 2:4, Revelation 12:7-9).
---Leslie on 7/19/11


Athiest, if you don't believe in God, how could you possibly believe in demons or the devil. In fact, I don't know what you are doing here on line. You have nothing whatsoever to offer that helps anyone. What you want is for believers to be athiest. It's not possible, at least not genuine believers. But athiest can become believers, only if God bring light to you. With God nothing is impossible.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11


Demons and angels do not exist. They never did.

Are men from mars the same as frogs from Venus? No. Neither exist.

Please, you are adults. It is time to leave behind such childish things.

Wow! I think I just saw a tooth faerie!
---atheist on 7/18/11


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I hear your opinions loudly Leslie & Mima. But, again, where in the Bible does it specifically say demons are fallen angels?
---Leon on 7/18/11


Sinful angels are in everlasting chains indicating strongly they are not the demons that took over people's lives.
---Billy9676 on 7/18/11


What did you think they were? You didn't actually think that God created things to be evil, did you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/11


"Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
---mima on 7/18/11


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Yes demons are unclean spirits and fallen angels. The Bible says when Lucifer (now Satan) fell from Heaven, he took 1/3 of the angels with him (these are demons).
---Leslie on 7/18/11


Where in the Bible is the 1/3 referred to as demons?
---Leon on 7/18/11


Yes. the demons are the 1/3rd that fell with Lucifer aka Satan.
---candice on 7/18/11


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