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Pray Or Argue With Cults

Which is better, praying for or arguing with persons in cults?

Join Our Free Singles and Take The Cults Bible Quiz
 ---Adetunji on 7/20/11
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Warwick,

I have no denomination for the very thing you say I am blinded to. It is a mystery for a very good reason, no body knows how on earth anyone could get this from the scripture nor can they explain it. Any trinitarian scholar will say this is not a doctrine taught in scripture but a progressive revelation, which is a wonderful way to explain away everything that contradicts it. My brother I had the scales removed from my eyes and pray you have them removed from yours to.

Gods peace and grace
---willa5568 on 7/26/11


Francis, my mistake. Sorry. The fourth beast is Alexander the Great. After his death his empire split up. Antioches IV is mentioned a bit further on, in 6:24-25. :-)
---John.usa on 7/26/11


This deals BOTH with eating AND with treating some days as more special than others
****
essentially adding and implying Gods Holy Sabbath to EATING?

READING Romans 14 as it IS not through the Sabbath haters view - not ONCE does it ever mention a Holy Day

entire chapter dicusses days of fasting


ADDING to Gods Word is what false doctrines must do to PROVE their LIE

suggesting that fasting on some days has a subliminal message that also is about the Sabbath Day is absurd - ACTUALLY quite a STRETCH to IMPLY that the days mention "really mean" for example the sabbath

I choose the TRUTH in Gods Word not mans ideas ABOUT Gods Holy Word
---Rhonda on 7/26/11


trav - yes one can totally believe every word of the Bible in its original came directly from the mouth of God. Howbeit, there is nothing in it that says we must be absolutely correct in our interpretation of the Bible - a position that old Warwick seems to hold. Yes, those first days of creation could easily have been of different length than the last few. And the light from most of the stars did take years to reach earth as the stars were not created on a single day. God was active long before the creation of this earth.
---leej on 7/26/11


francis //Because Isaiah 66 show that even in the new earth there will be sabbath.

That section of Isaiah also speaks of the restoration of the Levitical priesthood - a priesthood that pointed forward to Christ. So you really cannot use any verse in Isaiah, or for that matter any other part of the Bible to justify observance of the olde Jewish Sabbath, especially for those who are not Jewish.

Your denomination promotes minority viewpoints and the reason they are minority viewpoints is the fact that most lack any significant support either in the Bible or church history.
---leej on 7/26/11




"You would supplant his people and his covenant?" Trav

Not sure what that means but it seems clear, scripturally speaking, that in addition to being 'Christlike', footstep followers of Jesus Christ, 'Christians' are also associated with the name of the Almighty God Jehovah.

This is a significant (IMHO) omission within Christendom, a by-product of the trinitarian or 'Jesus is Jehovah' belief system.

Trinitarians argue that those who reject this teaching lower Christ Jesus to a 'position' beneath what is rightfully His. What they ignore, however, is that the trinity doctrine really does the same to Jehovah, lowering the Almighty Himself to a position equal to His Son, even saying that the Father IS the Son.
---scott on 7/26/11


Since light from most of the stars takes days (or years) to reach earth and be seen, it is probable that God created most of universe prior to creation of earth and could not have created them on the 4th day alone.

Genesis record is really lacking in any detail to make any conclusion apart from the view that God was the creator.
---leej on 7/22/11

I know I've never complimented....so don't spaz out on me. But, this was good.

It occurs to me as I'm typing that if stars were created from one point and positioned outwards the light would have been immediate....and constant from an earth point of view. Are surely gravitational an other considerations that would fill a book against this. But, hey just speculating anyway.
---Trav on 7/26/11


Willa, once again, how many times does Jesus have to say something before you believe Him?

A parable? You jest!

To you who will not believe that Jesus is God the Son, there is a contradiction. But as I said, that is in your mind, not in Scripture.

Both The Father and The Son have the same names and titles. In Jeremiah 23:6 Jesus' name is 'Jehovah our Righteousness.' Both are Creator, Redeemer, and Saviour. Both are called The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus said He is God, His followers said He is God, as did His mortal enemies.

Your denominational indoctrination blinds you to reality.
---Warwick on 7/26/11


"Why do you need a label? Isn't Christ -- Christian enough?" Trav
.... himself a holy people......., they shall be afraid of thee." Deut 28:9,10, 15:14---scott on 7/26/11

Christ means Anointed....Christians equals Christ like.
You would supplant his people and his covenant? Or are you that people?
Heb8:8.....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Isa 43:1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob,he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine.
---Trav on 7/26/11


"Why do you need a label? Isn't Christ -- Christian enough?" Trav

"Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen." Isaiah 43:10 ASV

"Jehovah will establish thee unto himself a holy people...if thou keep the commandments of Jehovah thy God, and walk in his ways. And all peoples of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Jehovah, and they shall be afraid of thee." Deuteronomy 28:9,10, YLT

"Simeon did declare how at first God did look after to take out of the nations a people for His name," Acts 15:14

"...yet thou, O Jehovah, art in the midst of us, and we are called by thy name..."Jeremiah 14:9, ASV
---scott on 7/26/11




Warwick,

//Jesus did not lie but spoke a parable, If you kill me I will rise again, which you seem to misunderstand as well//

Can I get more direct? No he didn't lie. It does not seem you understand what he said as most who heard him speak. One verse does not determine what the truth is if multiple times it says something opposite, that is why there are so many different doctrines and divisions.
---willa5568 on 7/26/11


God knows what He said,
He knows who He is,
He knows what is has done,
He knows what He is doing,

He alone will confirm His Word.

You can not be one with YHVH
without knowing His Word. [Exact-expressed Image]
Represented by the-- sheen--- that also represents " the name" (Shem) and inside the word yeshua yaho--sh--ah. In side the sheen, and
That is a perfect picture of the truth and so the truth -you can not have the father without going through the son.

His Word became flesh... .
One God
Different dimension.
---char on 7/26/11


---John.usa on 7/25/11
One may attempt to make the arguement that is was
Antiochus IV "Epiphanes."

But that would not fit scripture:

His kingdom did not meet these critria:
1: Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom shall devour the whole arth,
HIS KINGDOM WAS MUCH SMALL ER THAN THOSE BEFORE HIM

2: Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed VERY GREAT: .

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed EXCEEDINLY GREAT, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant [land].

He was wicked yes, but a EXCEEDING GREAT kingdom NO WAY!! Only ONE kingdom came after alexander and could be consider greater than his: ROME
---francis on 7/26/11


Perhaps, since you possess this scriptural, 'medicine', you should find them the way that they found you...following the example of Christ and the apostles.
---scott on 7/25/11

Christ example is seldom followed....Matt 15:24. Matt 10:6.
If you have medicine....I'll recognize when I'm sick.
Lamentations 5:3
We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers are as widows.
20Wherefore dost thou forget us for ever, and forsake us so long time?

21Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned, renew our days as of old.
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
---Trav on 7/26/11


This deals BOTH with eating AND with treating some days as more special than others (for example, the Sabbath).
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11

because the word of God does not contradict itself, we know that paul is not referring here to the 4th commandment. Because Isaiah 66 show that even in the new earth there will be sabbath.
He is referring to the feast days as he does in other poassages. No one is obligated to keep the feast days sine they unlike the 4th commandment is fulfilled by Christ
---francis on 7/26/11


"Rejection which they get points for at judgment." Trav

Jehovah's Witnesses believe no such thing. Ridiculous.
---scott on 7/25/11

Good, if you can speak for the majority.

Mine did believe this.
Interestingly, like Warwick....most denom's immediately assume since your not under "their" domination/denomination then you are a goner. Their glory is your agreement/subjection to and under.
Their arrogance is on sand without witnesses.

Why do you need a label? Isn't Christ -- Christian enough?
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
---Trav on 7/26/11


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Willa, the confusion is all in your mind.

Stop ducking and weaving and answer a question: Jesus says He will raise Himself up:

Was He deluded,lying or telling the truth?

I would like a direct non evasive answer please!
---Warwick on 7/26/11


Rhonda:

Romans 14:4-6:
"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord, and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks, and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."

This deals BOTH with eating AND with treating some days as more special than others (for example, the Sabbath).
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11


Warwick,

my dear brother lets consider what you just said. Jesus is God so he raised himself from the dead. Every other time it says God raised Jesus from the dead.
So there are two people here, God and Jesus. So are you saying God Jesus raised Jesus. Now there are two Jesus'. Jesus did not lie but spoke a parable, If you kill me I will rise again, which you seem to misunderstand as well.
---willa5568 on 7/25/11


Rhonda//Romans 14 is not speaking ABOUT the Sabbathhow foolish!!!

What is really foolish is that what you believe about Romans 14 is just your opinion or that of those who have you on their leash.

Romans 14 has from the earliest days of the church been interpreted as plainly stated, that there are no holy days required nor is there food restrictions for the Christian.

I will stick with what the Apostles & their early successor taught.
---leej on 7/25/11


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Right On Trav!

Even Josephus called them a Sect
---John on 7/25/11


"Rejection which they get points for at judgment." Trav

Jehovah's Witnesses believe no such thing. Ridiculous.

"Would you/they deny me? If they are sick....then they need scriptural medicine." Trav

Perhaps, since you possess this scriptural, 'medicine', you should find them the way that they found you...following the example of Christ and the apostles.
---scott on 7/25/11


Willa what you ignore is that Jesus said He would raise Himself up! How many times does He have to say this before you would believe Him?

You do not believe Him when He says this, which means you accuse Him of lying.

What you also ignore is that when Scripture says God raised Him, this, in your terms, is a contradiction. But to us it is not as Jesus and the Father are one God.

These Scriptures make sense to those who accept the Godhead. But to you they have to be a contradiction, and Christ a liar!
---Warwick on 7/25/11


Christianity was not just another sect of Judaism.
---leej on 7/25/11

Hey this was pretty good. Your right. It was another sect-ion of House of Israel.

Who would be able to weigh in the scales of their heart and mind.
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
---Trav on 7/25/11


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As to the Sabbath commandment, Romans 14 is very clear.
****

Romans 14 is not speaking ABOUT the Sabbathhow foolish!!!

Paul is speaking ABOUT FOOD ...seeing the WORD EAT is used 6 times and holy day is NEVER used

to fully COMPREHEND one must FIRST understand that Paul was speaking to BOTH Jew and Gentile newly CONVERTED Christians ...both had different days they fasted from food PRIOR to their conversion ...Paul admonished not to JUDGE one another in their PRIOR beliefs

its so sad how counterfeit christianity is TAUGHT to HATE the Sabbath day by their mother rcc Rev 17 they are willing to TEACH their LIE by citing a passage that has NOTHING to do with Holy Days in their endless vain attempt to SELL their lie
---Rhonda on 7/25/11


//But no one can make an argument that the 4th beast will not attempt to change times and laws.

Antiochus IV -Epiphanes promoted Hellenization (Greek culture) over the region of Judea sided with the Hellenized Jews by outlawing Jewish religious rites and traditions kept by observant Jews and by ordering the worship of Zeus as the supreme god (2 Maccabees 6:1-12).

In this effort, he outlawed many Jewish religious practices such as their feasts, dietary laws, the keeping of the Sabbath(s), etc.

Of course, in interpreting the Daniel passages to refer to Rome, Adventism attempts to take advantage of religious prejudice against Roman Catholicism, particularly among those ignorant of history.
---leej on 7/25/11


Francis, it is Antiochus IV "Epiphanes"
---John.usa on 7/25/11


Marc,

It does not say Jesus is "the word", but the word became flesh. Or it would say according to you, "in the beginning was Jesus(the son) and Jesus was with God(who would apparently be the Father since he is WITH him) and Jesus was God(or as the second statement says, was the Father), Unless you say, "well when it says God the first time that is the Father but it changes in the next statement and means Jesus is God as well" for some unknown reason.

And you ignore the multiple times "God raised Him" over one statement that apparently you as well as they misunderstand. And you ignore this, God cannot die. If your dead you cannot raise yourself.
---willa5568 on 7/25/11


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---leej on 7/25/11
Interpretationsare only for things which are not strait forward. The only thing needed to be interpreted in this passage is "the 4th beast."

Someone can make an arguement that the 4th beast is not Rome, since the bible does not say it is Rome. But no one can make an arguement that the 4th beast will not attempt to change times and laws. It is very clear from that passage that the 4th beast, whoever it is, will attempt to change Gods times and laws

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, Daniel 7:25 HE shall think to change times and laws:
---Francis on 7/25/11


francis - I realize your interpretation of Daniel 7 is that Rome is the last kingdom that will attempt to change times and laws, however, observance of Sunday as the day of communal worship of the early church is well documented by church historians.

In the quote by the Roman Cahtolic thelogian Fr. Geiermann in A manual of Theology for the laity, he simply acknowledges that fact that Sunday was the day observed in Apostolic times.

We can see from Acts 15 that ceremonial types laws that were strictly jewish in nature were not imposed on Gentile converts.
---leej on 7/25/11


//Could you show tham a passage that says we no longer have to keep all ten commandments, rather only 8/19?

As to the Sabbath commandment, Romans 14 is very clear.

"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Secondly in the writings of early church - many written by the successors of the Apostles themselves, itis clear that the converts were not commanded to observe the Jewish Sabbath or any other law strictly Jewish in nature.

Christianity was not just another sect of Judaism.
---leej on 7/25/11


---John.usa on 7/25/11
And the forth beast out of the sea is?
---francis on 7/25/11


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Willa you ignore the obvious.

But you reject what Jesus has obviously said, because your denomination affiliation commands you do so. One of the dangers of rigid denominationalism.
---Warwick on 7/25/11

Looks like he just rejects your denomination. As one should.
You testify/condemn in the face of scripture you don't fully understand. Yet.

Hebrews 10:21
And having an high priest over the house of God,

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God,
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
---Trav on 7/25/11


.... when the JWs come to the door, I just say No Thank-you. When the Mormons come, I offer them coffee.
---John.usa on 7/23/11

I used to avoid JW's. Inviting one in one day....he revealed that they view this avoidance as righteous rejection. As they believe they come representing "GOD's" name and GOD.
Rejection which they get points for at judgment.
I make a point to visit with them now...negating their misunderstanding. Using scripture in the visit....they usually avoid me thereafter or come back for more provocation. ha. If they are sick....then they need scriptural medicine. If I am I do.... would you/they deny me? Why would I deny them? It is up to them/me to take/prove the medicine or reject it.
---Trav on 7/25/11


francis//Could you show tham a passage that says we no longer have to keep all ten commandments, rather only 8/19?

If you gave a new Christian ONLY the New Testament and he or she examined ALL the commands contained therein, would he or she find any command to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

Adventists really get upset when they have to acknowledge that the Spirit of Jesus did not command the Jewish Sabbath to Gentile believers.
---leej on 7/25/11


There is nothing in the Book of Daniel applying to Rome. The last thing mentioned in Daniel is about the conquests of Alexander the Great, a Macedonian. And that was written about 170 years after the fact. :-)
---John.usa on 7/25/11


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Willa,

Re Jesus saying ''I will raise my body up'', you argue either those who preached God raised him from the dead were wrong or you misunderstand what he means. No, there's another possibility: you're ignoring the obvious: Jesus raised HIS OWN BODY UP, just as John says.

''No where in scripture will you find other than here [Jesus saying I will raise my body up']'' isn't an argument. If your argument were sensible you shouldn't believe Jesus is God's logos because it's only said in one place i.e. John 1:1. Your argument commits the special pleading fallacy. You must argue that way because your organisation's told you to believe Jesus couldn't raise his own body up because he'd be God.
---Marc on 7/25/11


---willa5568 on 7/24/11
If you were leading a none chroistian to Christ, could you show tham a few passages which stated that everything in the bible has been fulfilled?
Could you show tham a passage that says we no longer have to keep all ten commandments, rather only 8/19?
And what would your answer be when they asked why keep the sabbath in the new heaven and new earth Isaiah 66 22-23?
---francis on 7/25/11


---willa5568 on 7/24/11
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So Adam knew, and Abraham knew Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD,

thus isaac, and jacob knew

Exodus 16:23 And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:

and Moses knew all this before the law was given at sinai
---francis on 7/25/11


Francis,

Matthew 5:18 "...until all is fulfilled"

John 19:30 "...It is finished,"

The Law is kept by love for God and our neighbor. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Also it is to be noted until the Law there is no mention of the Sabbath other than God resting on the seventh day. The other commandments Paul said are written on our heart (Romans 2:14,15). As I understand it resting in the righteousness of God in the Messiah Jesus is our Sabbath being that we have ended our work. The moral law given to Israel was explained in depth through out Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers. If we were to abide by the way it is taught, keeping the seventh day holy would be quite simple.
---willa5568 on 7/24/11


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Often cults blame the Roman Catholic church for changing basic Christian doctrine.
---leej on 7/24/11
Are you accusing the prophect Daniel of being in a cult?

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast( ROME) shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms ( POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS KINGDOM), and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS:

CHRIST: matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
---francis on 7/24/11


//1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

And what does the New Covenant tell us what the commandments of God are?

Read 1 John 3:22-24

1) Believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ,

2) Love one another (also mentioned as the fulfillment of the commandments in Romans 13:10).

If you were to view church history you would find that the Jewish Sabbath was not imposed on the Gentile church, nor did they observe it. Sorry that you must ignore the writings (and teachings) of the early church in order to justify your Erroneous Viewpoint.

PS - Nowhere in the NT will you find any hint of a command to observe the OT Sabbath.
---leej on 7/24/11


Often cults blame the Roman Catholic church for changing basic Christian doctrine.

One cult quotes RC source as proof for changing the Sabbath BUT refuse to acknowledge the full content of the quote.

"The 1st Christians kept Sunday also, bec on that day the Savior arose from the dead & the Holy Spirit came down on believers. Later, a dispute arose between Gentile & Jewish believers over which day must be kept holy. Many Jewish converts maintained all converts must be bound by the entire law of Moses. To Remove This Erroneous Impression, and to free her children from the ceremomial laws of Moses, the church decreed all catholics should keep holy Sunday as the Lord's day, As Has Been Done In Apostolic times."
---leej on 7/24/11


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,.. for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, IS THEREFORE CHRIST THE MINISTER OF SIN? God forbid.

So although no one, jew or gentile convert was required to be circumcised, all of them were expected to obey all the commandments

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one,
cannot be ONE if they have different laws from a God who claims not to be a respector of persons
---francis on 7/24/11


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francis //1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.

While that is true one needs remember that Gentile converts did not have laws imposed on them that were strictly Jewish in nature. Such laws for instance, circumcision, observance of holy days including the Sabbath, Levitical dietary laws, etc. were not obligated to Gentile converts.

If you identify the 'law' only as being Old Testament laws, then you would have to conclude that the Jerusalem council decision (Acts 15) was WRONG in not imposing OT laws upon Gentiles that were strictly Jewish in nature.
---leej on 7/24/11


"Which is better, praying for or arguing with persons in cults?"
I never argue scripture. I simply present them, and the understanding that I have been given concerning them, then listen. Recognizing, and acknowledging, that my understand could be flawed. What I pray for is understanding, and the ability to convincingly articulate that understanding, without attempting to convince anyone of any thing. I also recognize that I am in no position to judge anyone's doctrine or their religious affiliation. He that thinks himself to know all, knows nothing at all as he should. Which is better? Prayer. "Man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
---Josef on 7/23/11


To answer the blog question, when the JWs come to the door, I just say No Thank-you. When the Mormons come, I offer them coffee.
---John.usa on 7/23/11


"Which is better, praying for or arguing with persons in cults?"
Whichever the Lord leads you to do in a particular circumstance. The Word is powerful and active and sharper then a 2 edged sword...so speaking the Word as led, as opposed to a debate which is merely intellectual can make a difference. Often when sharing the Word, i find I am praying at the same time for those who hear.
If left totally up to me, and had to choose one or the other, I'd prefer praying to arguing.
---chria9396 on 7/23/11


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The standard of God is the same in OT:
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

and NT:
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The true bride/ church of God must teach THE LAW and THE TESTIMONY al else is teaching falsehood.
---Francis on 7/23/11


Francis, your example of what constitutes a cult and what doesn't from Isaiah 8:20 is a very wrong interpretation. You took a passage and changed the meaning of it to support your view.
Isaiah 8:19 is refering to those who seek the dead. People of Isaiah's day were using spiritualists to communicate with the dead as King Saul did through the medium at En Dor (1 Sam.28:8-19) the law strickly forbade such consultation, "law and testimony" is refering to the light that came through the prophecies of God's spokeman, Isaiah. This was a picture of angry, frustrated people even to the point of cursing God, all because they refused to accept the truthfulness of what Isaiah had predicted, regarding the nations future.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11


francis 2: by interpeting Isa the way you did you come right back to what you have been preaching throughout your time on line, for people to remain under the law of works. Cults are those who teach outside of Christian orthodox teachings. Believers in Christ are not under the Law of works, they have been released from that yoke. They are believers in the Gospel of Christ through faith. Anyone who speaks against the gospel of Christ is considered a cult. The main question is, "who do you say that He is?" Knowing Him by faith is what is important. And you can only know Him through revelation.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11


People who belong to denominations which have large membership, ( or what is called mainstream christianity) often tend to look at others as cults. However, there is a VERY simple BIBLICAL standard to determine if a belief is of God or from cult:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

This is the very basic standard that all who claim to be christ's must meet.
So examine your own teachings, you may be in a large membership cult.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
---francis on 7/22/11


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---leej on 7/22/11
I think it is the denominations which do not keep the laws of God who are blinded by the god of this world. ( Satan) Satan goes about deceiving the world and leading them into sin.
Romans 3:20 for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4 for sin is the transgression of the law.

And satan goes about deceiving many people into disobeying the laws of God and denying that they have sinned

God makes is so VERY CLEAR to us how to identify the "cults": Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
---francis on 7/22/11


Ro 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

One often makes a cultist more determined in his errant beliefs when you get into any argument with them.

We can only use the opportunity to witness of the Truth to all who come to our doors including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and other cultists with the realization that such are really blinded by the god of this world.

2 Cor. 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
---leej on 7/22/11


Pray, for the bible says not to quarrel. Some take a disscussion with differences and turn it into a quarrel.
---candice on 7/22/11


YES David's statement is correct. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.
---Francis on 7/22/11


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When you approach a cult(i.e. JWs/Mormons/Church of Christ), you need to be well verse in scripture.
--John on 7/22/11

And what do you do When you approach a cult(i.e. Baptist, penticostal?)
---francis on 7/22/11


David wrote"Anybody standing on my doorstep with a Bible in their hand is worthy of a hearing." But is this statement correct?

Galatians 1:8 says," But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
---mima on 7/22/11


Not once did we argue. We spoke to each other respectfully, and I showed her love, as Christ showed me love.
---Trish9863 on 7/20/11
best statement in this blog!!
Show respect, listen and discus. Gaurantted you both will learn something, if not about scripture then about each other
---francis on 7/21/11


When you approach a cult(i.e. JWs/Mormons/Church of Christ), you need to be well verse in scripture.

The problem is most Christians are absolutely ignorant of their faith, so they cannot argue/deprogram and help these possesed people.
---John on 7/22/11


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David said: I never had any visits from any so called Orthodox cult members...This tells me they either don't follow Jesus' footsteps, have nothing to offer, do not care or aren't guided by HolySpirit

Sounds awfully self-righteous i.e. we at Watchtower are God's only saved people because we work for our salvation and boast about our hard work. E.g. In The Truth that leads to eternal life, under ''How to identify the true religion', p. 128, ''True worshipers also proclaim the kingdom of God as man's true hope[as no one else does it] This is the principal activity of those who actually do the will of the heavenly Father.''
---Marc on 7/21/11


I hired someone not knowing she was a Jehovah Witness. We got along fine. I never witnessed to her until I showed her the Love of God. I was very forgiving towards her when whe would go on her temper tantrums and we became friends as far as we could go. Then we began to talk about the Bible and I was able to share about the Trinity because JW's don't believe in the Trinity. To this day, 4 years later, we are still friends (she no longer works with my company) but we keep in touch on a regular basis. LOVE THEM!!!! SHOW THEM GOD'S LOVE JUST BY LOVING THEM and not JUDGING THEM, AMEN?
---Donna5535 on 7/21/11


---1st_cliff on 7/20/11
True but you will never get them to change bliefs if they feel you do not have there best interest at heart. In an argument there is an arrogance of I am right you are wrong mindset and getting rid of that mindset is the key to defeating false doctrine. Which is conquered by the friendship.
---Scott on 7/21/11


I never had any visits from any so called Orthodox (or should we say False'odox) cult members, or for that matter, any visit from any church goers from within Christendom. This tells me they either do not follow Jesus' footsteps, have nothing to offer, do not care or are not guided by HolySpirit- or all the above may apply.

The only people interested in my spiritual well-being and who took the time to visit me were Jehovah's Witnesses. Anybody standing on my doorstep with a Bible in their hand is worthy of a hearing. JW's spoke sense and their teaching from the scriptures had the ring of truth. Christendom on the other hand, from firsthand experience has a lot to answer for in her involvement with war and the drop in moral standards.
---David8318 on 7/21/11


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disagreements resolve with communication ...there may never be an agreement however emotional maturity will allow each person to present their viewpoint

sadly self-appointed christians in MANY denominations (forget about "cults") most ALWAYS resort to petty child-like responses defending ministers they idolize so dearly and offering extremely immature and non-scriptural responses ...never interested in using scripture ...there are just as many baptist cults as their are other christian denominations cults ...anyone can put an OPEN SIGN in front of a church and call it christian

arguments are ALWAYS emotionally-laced ...either wait until one is cooled off and rational or don't ever discuss
---Rhonda on 7/21/11


I once had a visit from a couple of Jehovah Witnesses, and as we talked, we discovered our daughters were in the same class in elementary school. We agreed to meet in my living room once a week to discuss scriptures.

This time together allowed me to dig into the Word to prepare for our time together. It also gave my daughter the opportunity to witness to her classmates, and she took the Bible into school and led a Bible study at lunch each day with the kids who were interested. This was in sixth grade.

Not once did we argue. We spoke to each other respectfully, and I showed her love, as Christ showed me love.
---Trish9863 on 7/20/11


As an ex-Mormon, I will always pray that they come to Jesus Christ of the Bible. It is hard to argue with brainwashed people.
---karenD on 7/20/11


Twice Jehovah's False Witnesses have come my door.

I made sure that **I** stayed in control of the conversation. That threw them off balance, because as Donna66 said, they are coached to try to guide it.

When I pointed out their inconsistencies from their own literature, they got confused and left.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/20/11


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praying is better than arguing, as seen on these blogs.
---michael_e on 7/20/11


Don't even try to "argue" unless you know the cult and are well prepared with scripture (chap+verse). If the cultist is at your door, or is the initiator of the conversation, know that HE has been thoroughly coached. If you are not prepared to counter his argument, you will "lose" no matter how correct your doctrine.

Don't be rude, though. Tell him politely, but firmly, that you are too busy OR listen respectfully (unless he/they become overbearing). Remember, some of these poor souls are there because they think they MUST be, to enter Heaven (not because they really want to be). Tell them what you believe about Jesus and leave it at that. Pray for them on the spot if you wish.
---Donna66 on 7/20/11


Praying is by far the most affective. Our prayers should be for those who are caught up in cults, that the Lord would richly bless them and bring them out. We also should pray for our own doctrines to be correct it is reasonable to ask the Lord to direct our thoughts and so keep us on the right track. Remember this about prayer, if your prayer is in accordance with God's wishes or desires you can rest assured that you have been heard and have the petition that you have asked of God.
---mima on 7/20/11


Scott. **show them the errors in belief** means show them your belief, which is of course, the right and true one, and all else is false...right??
Did the Pharisees, Sadducees,Essenes, Herodians, Zealots etc..ever consider that they were on the wrong road? (albeit some became Christians)
They expect others to listen patiently,while never entertaining the fact that they themselves are in error!
In university "argumentation" is a learning tool (proper arguments not harangue) presenting your point with proof not consensus!
---1st_cliff on 7/20/11


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Tell me one of your strong, core beliefs and lets argue. Does not work does it. (I am not accusing you of being a cult just want you to realize what you are up against when you argue.) So pray and get to know them then show errors in belief.
---Scott on 7/20/11


Always start with prayer, but also remember that there is NO magic bullet to suddenly convert someone from a cult.

He didn't join it suddenly, and you won't be able to say the magic words to get him out in one interview. All you can do is plant seeds and get him to question the cult for himself, and then look behind the curtain and see who Oz really is.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 7/20/11


The Bible says we are not to argue, but prove our point with scripture. Also, prayer does things in the supernatural that cannot be done in the natural (ie: praying that eyes and ears would be open to see and hear, and bondages broken).
---Leslie on 7/20/11


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