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Modern Day Prophets

Considering Ephesians 4:11-13 Are there modern day apostles? If one claims to be an apostle, would you believe him?

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 ---chria9396 on 7/22/11
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"David you are both a coward and ignorant of language." Warwick

That is amusing for a couple of reasons.

1. Warwick drags out false WT snippets from the internet, only because he found himself unable to defend his pontification with God's inspired word. David defends what he knows to be true and he's the coward? Warwick doesn't actually have any of these articles that he quotes from, so they are out of context and he wants David (or me) to find the articles for him. That's both funny and sad.

2. Regarding language- Notice that in a discussion about the biblical languages, Warwick inevitably starts referring to French. If he knew Hebrew or Greek (or Aramaic) wouldn't he just discuss those languages?
---scott on 7/30/11

"Any man's predictions..." Warwick

Any man?

A simple search will reveal long lists of failed predictions by prominent leaders of denominations including the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, the Roman Catholic Church, Assemblies Of God Church, Calvary Chapel, the The Anglican Church (Episcopalians in the US), the Mennonites, Methodists, etc.

When Wesley concluded that the end would come in 1836 and when Martin Luther said that the Turkish war would lead to the end of the world, they were mistaken. But that does not make them false prophets, they did so on the basis of their current understanding of the Bible.

BTW Luther also insisted that the earth was the centre of the universe.
---scott on 7/28/11

"The WTS [and] truth". Warwick (1)

You know nothing about Jehovah's Witnesses and 'truth'.

Visit the Holocaust Museum sometime and, after considering the unthinkable treatment of the Jews (that JWs spoke out against), stop by the area devoted to Jehovah's Witnesses who championed the 'truth' of God's Kingdom that the Nazi regime viewed as an affront to their political agenda. Sadly, millions of Jews lost their lives. But some 6,000 Jehovah's Witnesses suffered in concentration camps, 1,000 died for refusing to sign a simple document renouncing their politically neutral faith.

Witnesses championed the 'truth' when the great majority of 'Christian' faiths either supported Hitler or remained silent.
---scott on 7/28/11

"Truth". Warwick (2)

Your view of 'truth' is skewed. For weeks you argued that the Hebrew word "Eth" had special meaning and later said "just 'kidding."

Your 'truth' didn't develop in a vacuum. Your trinitarian views were established by the Roman Catholic Church. And the RCC wrote that eternal life was tied to acceptance of this doctrine as well as recognizing them as Gods channel of 'truth'.

I would much rather be part of an organization that has humbly adjusted their views based on a progressively clearer view of God's word then one that sticks to unscriptural teachings like priestly celibacy, clergy/laity distinction, the trinity etc., because it was their 'truth' 1800 years ago.
---scott on 7/28/11

Scott, as I said I was unable to find the Billy Graham 'prophecy' you mentioned. However to liken any man's predictions to the many failed prophecies of the WTS is foolish, because the WTS says it is God's only representative on earth. It says it alone speaks for God!

As you know the WTS uses the truth lightly. It banned life-saving organ transplants and vaccinations saying they were against God's word. They later reversed these prohibitions. So who was wrong, the WTS or God?

How many innocent WTS dupes have died because they could not have a blood transfusion, or organ transplant, or vaccination?

Would you let your loved ones die rather than have a medical proceedure?
---Warwick on 7/27/11

David, predictions from J. W..
1. 1889 "The battel of the great day of God Almight" Rev. 16:14, which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership is already commenced" From "The time is at Hand" p. 2 forward.
2. 1914 "The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armagaddon of the Scriptures" Pastor Russell's Sermons, p. 676.
3. 1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented show that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's reign, begin in 1873" in "The time is at Hand," P. 2 forward.
Just a few of many, 1918, 1922, 1923, 1925, etc.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/11

David you have hidden since I challenged you to show where I was lying and this is the best you can do?

I said the WTS intrudes into the bedrooms of married JW's forbidding improper touching. You then said I was promoting/taking part in immoral sexual practices. This means you believe the WTS improper touching refers to immoral sexual prcatices.

Having been called a pervert by you I quite properly challenged you (as the accuser) to show what the WTS defines as improper touching. But you don't and you wont. You are ducking this David as you know the 'Bedroom Laws' are somewhat bizarre and you don't want non JW's to learn what they are!

I will help you, see The Watchtower 1st December 1972, p. 735.
---Warwick on 7/27/11

\\Whatever you think of their theology, the Wesley's and Billy Graham made prophetic predictions about the 'end' that did not come true. And clearly they thought, as did many others, that they spoke for God as representatives (and leaders) of their respective faiths.\\

But I never said a WORD about Billy Graham.

Why did you drag him into the conversation?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/11

"You make much of words added or removed from different versions..." Warwick

You earlier cited Philippians 2:6,7 with the following rendering:

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage..."

Which of the above words is a literal word for word translation of the Greek text?

Take your time. It's clear why neither you or marc have answered repeated questions about this.
---scott on 7/27/11

Warwick- you tell us what the Watchtower article you cited described as 'inappropriate touching'. You brought the Watchtower article up, you've obviously got it in front of you. You tell us! I'm not wasting my time with your immoral fetish.

Maybe CN will allow you to post the type of perversions you evidently enjoy as 'love making techniques'.

But of course, you don't want to post what the Watchtower article really discussed for fear people will realise the perversions you prefer.

Tell us Warwick- what are the clean morals you detest the Watchtower for defending! You tell us the perversions & 'inappropriate touching' you prefer.
---David8318 on 7/27/11

Hippolytus (236 ce)

"From the birth of Christ, then, we must reckon the 500 years that remain to make up the 6,000, and thus the end shall be."

Fragments Part I:III, Section II - The interpretation by Hippolytus, bishop of Rome, of the visions of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar, taken in conjunction Section 4

False Prophet?
---scott on 7/27/11

David you have finally plucked up the courage to almost face me!

You make much of words added or removed from different versions while at the same time knowing the WTS are masters at this. For example the addition of 'other' 4 times in Colossians 1:16-17, and once in Philippians 2:9. The deletion of 'me'in John 14:14.

Neither you nor I wrote any version of Scripture therefore neither of us is lying by believing any version. It is the WTS which lies.

However you do lie regarding my sexual practices. I do not approve of immoral sexual practices as you falsely claim. If you would be kind enough to spell out what the WTS means by 'improper touching' then all would know who is telling the truth. Until then...
---Warwick on 7/27/11

If MarkV is so concerned about not introducing 'new' teachings into the Bible, why does he promote the teaching of trinity? That's nowhere to be found in the Bible, neither is hell nor immortal soul. Yet MarkV is a 'prophet' of these false doctrines.

Who said anything about CT Russell being given prophecies? MarkV appears to be in a World of his own.

CT Russell studied prophecies already recorded in the Bible. Prophecies as at Daniel 4 and Revelation 12 which led Russell and Bible Students to 1914 as the period when the 'Gentile times' or 'times of the Nations' ended.

CT Russell never claimed to have received any prophecy. This false accusation by MarkV is baseless and without any factual reference whatsoever.
---David8318 on 7/27/11

Archbishop Edwin Sandys (1519-1588) was a high ranking prelate of the Anglican Church (Archbishop of York from 1576-1588).

He was one of the translators of the Bishops' Bible.

'Now, as we know not the day and time, so let us be assured that this coming of the Lord is near. He is not slack, as we do count slackness.

That it is at hand, it may be probably gathered out of the Scriptures in divers places. The signs mentioned by Christ in the Gospel which should be the foreshewers of this terrible day, are almost all fulfilled." Leroy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, Volume II, pgs 417,419.

This prediction was made over 400 years ago.

I don't know...False Prophet?
---scott on 7/27/11

Warwick has demonstrated his use of trinitarian lies at John 17:11 & 14:14 is irrefutable.

Your ignorance of trinitarian lies is no defence Warwick. But I don't believe for one minute you were unaware of trinitarian corruptions at John 17:11 & 14:14. You are indoctrinated into a lie, and continue knowingly to promote trinitarian lies.

So it is no surprise that a liar would slate a Watchtower article denouncing immoral perversions found in Satans world. As the scriptures point out- 'filth, fornication and lying' go hand in hand- Rev.21:8.

You don't have a 'view of the scriptures' Warwick. You are an enemy of the scriptures, twisting them with trinitarian lies to suit your own false doctrines.
---David8318 on 7/27/11

Cluny and Warwick,

Whatever you think of their theology, the Wesley's and Billy Graham made prophetic predictions about the 'end' that did not come true. And clearly they thought, as did many others, that they spoke for God as representatives (and leaders) of their respective faiths.

Were they false prophets or not? It's a simple question.
---scott on 7/27/11

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Scott far be it from me to defend Billy Graham, however I cannot find the quote you refer to. I can only find secondary sources.

Nonetheless let us assume he said this or something like it. This is not the same as the WTS making many false prophecies. The WTS is an organization which claims it speaks on God's behalf. It says it is God's witness on earth.
---Warwick on 7/26/11

\\John and Charles Wesley (credited with founding the Methodist Church) wrote extensively on Bible prophecy.\\

The Wesley brothers went to their graves loyal priests of the Church of England, and were upset when the Methodists in the USA and UK broke away from Anglicans.

As far as his writing on prophecy, like Ellen G. White, they shared the false and insular view that Western Europe was the prophetic and spiritual center of the world and totally ignored the Eastern Churches and their history.

So of course, they would make errors.

But there is this difference: the Wesleys never claimed to be prophets or speak directly for God. EGW did.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/11

"A People, all of whom are prophets..." Marc

This is the 2nd time Marc distorts the truth about this article.

This article is entitled "Would That All Were Prophets!" These are words spoken by POPE John Paul II to the General Assembly of the World Catholic Federation.

Here he uses the word 'prophet', referring to evangelizing...speaking for God. Not foretelling the future.

The WT article explains: "The New American Bible states: Prophet means one who speaks for another, especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!"

It is only regarding evangelizing that WItnesses are (or have ever been) even remotely considered to be 'prophets'.
---scott on 7/26/11


Yes, but not just evangelical leaders.

John and Charles Wesley (credited with founding the Methodist Church) wrote extensively on Bible prophecy. In his Notes on the Bible for Revelation chapter 10 John wrote: "The non-chronos here mentioned seems to begin in the year 800, (when Charles the Great instituted in the west a new line of emperors, or of 'many kings') to end in the year 1836, and to contain, among other things, the 'short time' of the third woe, the 'three times and a half' of the woman in the wilderness, and 'duration of the beast.'"

This prediction which was to conclude in 1836 AD did not happen.

Were John and Charles Wesley False prophets?
---scott on 7/26/11

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David, I believe what is already written in Scripture. I don't believe God forgot to mention something to us and later decided, "hey I better give prophecy to Charles Russell, Eloy, E. G. White or for that matter Muhammad, because I forgot to mention that in My Word."
Anyone proclaiming they are prophets are phonies, imposters. Deceiving others into believing that some how God forgot something and they have the answer. So they have to revise the Holy Bible and create their own so that they can convince their members of their desception.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/11


I believe you are correct. There are several other well know evangelical ministers who have "prophesied" of similar things. I don't believe anyone who tries to predict this event is a prophet and according to scripture are false considering not even Jesus himself knows that day. I think we will certainly know when it comes to fruition, it will be a time the earth has never known.
---willa5568 on 7/26/11

David you are both a coward and ignorant of language.

I have a different view of what Scripture says than you do. And thank God for that. Holding a different view does not constituute a lie. The word 'lie' is defined as an untruth knowingly told.

Secondly you falesly accuse me of "acquiescence with today's immoral perversions."

I pointed out the WTS had forbidden 'inappropriate touching' in sexual relations between man and wife. You will not tell us what 'inappropriate touching' entails but say I am a sexual pervert.

How evasive, deceitful and weak you are.
---Warwick on 7/26/11

Was Billy Graham a false prophet?

In 1950, Baptist evangelist Billy Graham told a group in Los Angeles: 'Two years and its all going to be over." (See US News & World Report, December 19,1994, p. 67).

The 'end' did not come in 1952. False prophet?
---scott on 7/26/11

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StrongAxe- 1873 and 1874 were dates Adventists believed marked the beginning of Christ's rule.

In 1879, CT Russell and his associates decided Adventists were wrong, recognising 1914 as the year when the 'Gentile times' would end and the beginning of Christ's invisible presence in Kingdom power & ousting Satan from Heaven-Rev.12:9.

In 1879, CT Russell printed the first Watchtower pointing to 1914 as the time when Christ would take up Kingdom power and the beginning of the 'Last days'. Jehovah's Witnesses still believe 1914 is a prophetic Biblical year. I believe your internet source has it wrong with events of 1897 and 1916.

While JW's were interested in Bible prophecies, false religion was interested in the 'Great War'.
---David8318 on 7/26/11

1 Cor. 14:22" prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."
Prophecy was to impart God's knowledge so that people wouldn't be ignorant. It was to edify and instruct.

We have a completed Bible ending with a warning about adding and subtracting words.

In Paul's early ministry, he writes we shall see face to face,(1Cor 13:12) referring to beholding the glory of God in the Word of God.(2 Cor. 4:6)

Ephes.4:11 "And he gave some...",
Notice it says God gave, past tense. Something God did in the past.

2 Tim.3:16-17 "All scripture is given...," God's word equips us to do good works. Prophecy isn't needed because He gave us something that replaces it.
---michael_e on 7/26/11

It's not what I say, it's what the Bible teaches. MarkV obviously disagrees with Revelation 19:10.

Revelation 19:10 states that it is the 'bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying'.

Evidently, MarkV does not 'bear witness to Jesus'.

MarkV as do many here misunderstand what it is to be a prophet. They believe that a prophet must always predict the future, which is not entirely accurate. A prophet is one who simply 'speaks on behalf of another'. In this case it is Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God.

Far from prophesying anything 'new', JW's speak about what is already recorded in the Bible about Jesus and Jehovah God.
---David8318 on 7/26/11

read mark 13:22, follow the doctrine that is in line with the holy bible, then you can discern which is the true and the false prophets, those false prophets exist so that the word of God will be fulfilled.
---goody on 7/26/11

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\\Is this sufficient for you to belief that after Jesus Christ, there will be no more prophets raised?\\

No, christan. It's totally insufficient.

There are many places in Acts and the Epistles where it talks about prophets in the first generation of Christians. As well as Agabus, there are the four daughters of PHilip the Deacon who prophesied.

As St. Paul Himself said, "Now we prophesy in part." Would he have written that were there no prophets after Jesus?

Obviously, they do not have the same extensive influence of Moses--or Jesus--but that doesn't mean they are not prophets.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/11

I have pointed out where Warwick promotes trinitarian falsehoods at John 17:11 ('name' occurs only once, Warwick wants it twice) and John 14:14 ('me' appeared in manuscripts after the 3rd Century). These verses Warwick brought up as evidence of his pagan trinity, but which are easily exposed with Biblical truth. Warwick cannot refute his lies.

Warwick also admits to polytheist theology in his understanding of Heb.1:1-3, God is 'standing at God's right hand'.

To boot, Warwick's bizarre criticism of the Watchtower article he cited on the 'Father Jesus God' blog proves his acquiescence with today's immoral perversions. Perversions Warwick believes are 'love making techniques'.

What horror there must be in pagan Warwick's World.
---David8318 on 7/26/11

Chria, here what I read, there is no more prophets that can tell anyone about new prophecy that God might have forgotten to put in Scripture as Jehovah Witnesses claim. Everything we needed to know is already written in the Word of God. Anyone giving prophecy that has already been told in Scripture is only prophesying what has already been prophesied. The spirit of prophecy does not make anyone a prophet as David said. Even the two prophets that the Bible mentioned, we have already been told of them. If they are in every corner as Steven claims, then there is not two prophets, but millions of them. Any prophet out there is an imposter, prophesying what has already been prophesied. The two prophets will come as we have already been told.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/11

christan, i don't see deut 18:18, 19 meaning that there will be no more prophets. As I read last night, I came across this: Acts 21:10,11 "10 After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 Coming over to us, he took Pauls belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, The Holy Spirit says, In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.
---chria9396 on 7/26/11

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The idea of a Apostle today is debatable and I am not certain exactly how we can without question know there are because so many claiming to be "apostles" misuse the title and are false apostles. Prophets on the other hand certainly are today. Fore telling is not the only office of a prophet as is seen in John the Baptist. Though I can say God revealed to me that me and my wife would have a son and were to name him Elisha. A month later my wife was pregnant. So foretelling is happening as well. No one has to believe this but I know it's true.

God's peace and grace
---willa5568 on 7/25/11

It is apparent that most of you will be sending gifts to one another when the last two prophets from God are killed as spoken of by John in Revelation. Today's christians will mock, condemn, prosecute, and kill true apostles and prophets like people have done since the beginning. They are killed because they do not conform to your doctrines of denominational churches. You will never find true prophets and true apostles in worldly denominational churches, but on street corners of cities.

Do an online KJV bible search for "apostle" and "prophet" to learn that they do exist today.
---Steveng on 7/25/11

chria, this was Moses prophesy of the coming of Christ (some two thousand years later) in Deuteronomy 18:18,19

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of him."

Is this sufficient for you to belief that after Jesus Christ, there will be no more prophets raised? If there were Moses would have said so, then Christ's work was not finished and He died in vain when He breathed His last breath saying "It is finished".
---christan on 7/25/11

David, remember me?

I am the one you accused of lying about Scripture.

I am the same one you said was promoting perverted sexual practices.

I have challenged you to prove these defamatory claims. But you have not done so.

You are a man who lacks probity.
---Warwick on 7/25/11

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Just a few:
1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,"
1899 "...will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership..."
1916 "...the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873,"
1918 "...1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old..."
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates,"
1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?"
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11

If there are false prophets, that to me indicates that there must be TRUE prophets.
---chria9396 on 7/25/11

'Worship God, for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.' Rev.19:10. In this context all true Christians are prophets. If you are not 'bearing witness to Jesus', you are not a prophet.

The New American Bible correctly states: 'Prophet means 'one who speaks for another,' especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!''

Jehovah's Witnesses are not inspired prophets & do not predict the future. JW's 'bear witness' to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ- and by definition are prophets (Re.19:10) just as the RCC claim they are prophets as reported in the 1986 Awake article highlighted by Marc.

StrongAxe- where have JW's 'predicted specific dates for the imminent return of Jesus'?
---David8318 on 7/25/11

Despite whether or not any of their "variant theology" is true or not, The Jehovah's Witnesses cannot claim to be prophets, because, as an organization, they have on many occasions predicted specific dates for the imminent return of Jesus, and these predictions have not come true. They have later backpedalled and claimed that such predictions were based on imperfect knowledge that has since been made "morae clear", but the Bible admits no such excuses - if a prophets predicts something that fails to come to pass, he is a false prophet. Period.
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11

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barb and others - 1st Barb, what you speak is FALSE. Jesus DID talk about Prophets other than false prophets, infact He oporated in the gift of a Prophet (and in ALL 5 of the 5-fold gifts - Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Evangelist, Teacher). He is our example for these 5 gifts and how they should oporate. 2nd For anyone that says that the gifts are done away with and there are no Apostles or Prophets, my question to you is "are you God"? Who told you these gifts were done away with, because the Bible does NOT. You are guilty of taking away from the Bible, which God says NOT to do.
---Leslie on 7/25/11

"Within this wondrous volume lies the mystery of mysteries,
Happiest are they of human race to whom their God has given Grace
To read - to fear - to hope - to pray -
To lift the latch, to find the Way,
And - better had they ne'er been born -
Who read - to doubt,
Or read - to scorn:"

Sir Walter Scott:

Who would want to be considered a doubter or scorner, by God, on Judgement day?
---Warwick on 7/25/11

The Watchtower believes Jesus isn't God. To get around this they insert words to change the meaning of texts. For example, ''And Moses and Aaron...GOT A VISION OF THE [TRUE] God'' Exodus 24:9,11. Capitalised words added by Watchtower to replace the word 'saw'.

Christians don't have to add words to know who Moses and the others saw.
---Marc on 7/25/11

Lea, you have every right to disagree with my witness and testimonies, but before you go further and say, "you need to get knowledge and pray for Gods Wisdom", I too question you about your own understanding of the following: are prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors and teachers the same in titles, positions and functions?

Please go learn the difference of what a prophet is to an apostle and so forth before you tell others that they should "get knowledge and pray for God's wisdom." If you can't tell the difference of each of these offices, how do you expect one to trust what you are saying and sharing, as far as the Word of God is concerned?
---christan on 7/24/11

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The Jehovah's Witnesses will tell you ''You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.'' (Awake 6/8/86)

So Scott and David are prophets, according to their exclusive club based in New York. Of course it comes with some pretty onerous baggage i.e. Deuteronomy 13:1-5 & 18:20-22.
---Marc on 7/24/11

christian i disagree with you as to the scripture you posted backing up your belief that there are no prophets or apostles in todays churches and the scripture you used is in Revelations pertaining to adding to or taking away in this book, this is not what God was referring to at all , you need to get knowledge and pray for Gods Wisdom.
---Lea on 7/24/11

The only prophets Jesus talked about were false prophets and He said to BEWARE of them. Jesus did however teach that there would be a faithful and wise servant who will be feeding his fellow servants truth in due season. Matt. 24:45-51.

Hebrews 1:1-2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these days spoken unto us by his Son whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
---barb on 7/24/11

Thank you all. I appreciate your input. Christan, You I believe are right to raise the concern about adding to or taking away from the Word. No matter who speaks what, be it teacher, preacher, brother, sister, prophet, apostle, all should be checked with the Word.
joseph, ""till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ," Eph 4:8-13". This is what I had understood,'til' being key.
---chria9396 on 7/24/11

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God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER, and He does NOT change the Bible says. Notice the Bible calls them the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT (God), NOT the gifts of the Apostles. If the same Holy Spirit gave the early church apostles these gifts, He is the same Holy Spirit that gives the same gifts to people today, this has NOT changed. Infact in 1 Corinthians 12:1 - Paul says that we are to NOT be ignorant of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (spiritual gifts). In other words, we are to STUDY to show ourselves approved in ALL the Word, but also in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
---Leslie on 7/24/11

Romans 12:3.
Romans 12:6 "Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith,
1 Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
---Nana on 7/24/11

"Are there modern day apostles?"
Yes. Father does not retract His gifts.
All of them will be in effect "till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ," Eph 4:8-13
"If one claims to be an apostle, would you believe him?"
Yes, I would have no reason not to. Father calls whomever He chooses, to whatever position He chooses. Why would anyone blatantly lie concerning their calling?
---joseph on 7/24/11

Eph. 4:11 When Paul said "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets some evangelist, and some pastors and teachers" He was speaking of the 12 Apostles and of Himself who was numbered with the others, and were called "Apostles of Christ." They were to lay the foundation of the church (2:20) to receive, declare and write God's Word (3:5: Acts 11:28: Acts 21:10,11) and give conformation of that Word through signs, wonders, and miracles ( 2 Cor. 12:12: Acts 8:6,7: Heb. 2:3,4). The term "apostle" not apostle of Christ, is used in more general ways of other men, in the early church, such as Barnabas, Silas, Timothy. They are called apostles of the churches. No Apostle who died was replaced.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/11

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Prophet (seer or visionary): (1) oporates in the 3 E's (Edification - build up, Encouragement - mend/strengthen up, Exhortation - fire up), (2) oporates in fortelling (gifts of) (Word of Wisdom - future, Word of Knowledge - past & present, Discernment of Spirits - good & evil in Spirit Realm). Also Prophets in secular world are: Accounting, Ethics, Legal (Law), Human Resources.
---Leslie on 7/23/11

TRUE Prophecy = (1) Does it edify, exhort, or console?, (2) Is it in agreement with God's Word?, (3) Does it exalt Jesus Christ?, (4) Does it have good fruit?, (5) If it predicts a future event, does it come to pass?, (6) Does it turn people toward God or away from Him?, (7) Does it produce liberty or bondage?, (8) Does it produce life or death?, (9) Does the Holy Spirit bear witness that it is true? If (1,2,3,4,5,9) are "no" and if it turns people away from God (shaking their fists in anger), or produces bondage and death, it is NOT TRUE prophecy.
---Leslie on 7/23/11


The role of the prophet is to warn of disobedience toward God and the dyer consequence as a result of it.

Not to add to Gods Holy scriptures, and certainly not to puff people up as most so called prophets do today.
---paul on 7/23/11

//How do you know he's not just tickling your ears//

first clue

//He teaches and it oils you, melts your heart and ministers Spirit and Life.//

the teacher is the Lord for there is only one. the Light shines through only a broken vessel. the service of comfort and effecting us within is of the Lord and not any man.

do not get me wrong, there are some who shine brighter than others, but our adulation should be towards the Light and not the vessel.
---aka on 7/23/11

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chria, to believe that there are still prophets than you have to believe that the Word of God (ie the Holy Bible) is incomplete. That is to say, the prophet is going to add on to the Word that God has already given us. And this cannot be true as John in Revelation 22, warns -

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
---christan on 7/23/11

According to the Bible, apostleship is one manifestation of the Holy Spirit. This is also true of the office of the prophet. We must not have "a form of Godliness but deny the power". Both of these gifts come in great POWER. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever. We are admonished to pray for the gift of prophecy. I am sure there is much more to say, but to me, it is very clear that these gifts are in operation today. Counterfeits of these are also in operation (false prophets, apostles and teachers). It requires discernment and the help of the Holy Spirit.
---jody on 7/23/11

Chria, since it is not a loaded question, I have to agree with Christan that there is no more prophets or Apostles of Christ today. First, the prophets were not ordinary believers who had the gift of prophecy but were specially commissioned men in the early church. They sometimes spoke practical direct revelation for the church from God. The were not "sent ones" as were the apostles (Acts 13:1) but, as with the Apostles of Christ, their office ceased with the completion of the N.T. There messages were to be judged by other prophets for validity ( 1 Cor. 14:32) and had to conform to the teachings of the apostles of Christ (v. 1 Cor. 14:37 ) Those two offices were replaced by evangelists and teaching pastors.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11

in the service, if a particular officer earned his appointed rank, we would call him/her by rank. if he/she earned the office, we would call him sir. the same is true for an apostle.

show me who you are not what you call yourself.
---aka on 7/23/11

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"Sorry Charia
Hard to tell legitimate questions from loaded ones sometimes, pray I will always give the benefit of the doubt.
Paul"No problem. Bless you
---chria9396 on 7/23/11

Christan, "According to Hebrews, Jesus was the last prophet" You quoted

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds..." Hebrews 1:1,2

I interpret " spoken unto us by his Son" as trumping being spoken to by prophets, not necessarily that they (prophets) are no more.
As for rev 22:18, 19. Of course I agree. It indicates we ought to be careful. IMO, a true prophet would be totally backed by the Word, rightly discerned. BTW,Moderator put prophet in title, but the question specifically referred to apostles.
---chria9396 on 7/23/11

it really amazes me why being a prophet and saying one is a prophet makes many raise their eyebrows. If a Pastor says he is a Pastor no one thinks twice same goes with a teacher or and evangelist but nooooooooooo if one comes in the name of Jesus saying he is a Prophet or a Apostle mankind will automatically say he or she is false. Is it or can it be because a Prophet knows things that scare people because God shows him(her) about his people. Think about this.

and yes there is the 5 fold ministry in operation today doing Gods Will and can operate in all 5.
---Lea on 7/23/11

Iohn Foxe's book, The Actes and Monuments of Martyrs 1583 edition

''The causes mouing Tindall to translate the Scripture into the Englishe tongue.
For first hee wisely casting in hys minde, perceiued by experience, how that it was not possible to stablish the lay people in any truth, except the Scripture were so plainly layde before theyr eyes in theyr mother tongue, that they myght see the processe, order, and meaning of the text:''

Facing martyrdom, William Tyndale prayed, ''Lord, open the King of England eyes.''

''The worthy vertues and doings of this blessed Martyr, who for his paynefull trauailes, and singular zeale to his countrey, may be called in these our dayes, an Apostle of England, it were long to recite.''
---Kev on 7/22/11

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According to Unger's Bible Dictionary, an an Apostle was a person who was with Christ during His earthly life. The only exception is the Apostle Paul. It goes on the state that it was the 12 men that were selected for this position. And "no", based on the what Unger's stated, I would not believe a person who called them self an Apostle.
---wivv on 7/22/11

\\His name is Norman Meeten. He teaches and it oils you, melts your heart and ministers Spirit and Life.\\

How do you know he's not just tickling your ears, Donna?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/11

chria, here's your answer -

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds..." Hebrews 1:1,2

According to Hebrews, Jesus was the last prophet that the Father sent and they crucified Him! As for apostles, only those who walked with Christ during His life on earth are called such. What's left are "evangelists, and some, pastors and teacher" are left to teach the Word.

Everything that God wants His people to know is found in Genesis to Revelation, it's complete. Harken unto the warnings of Revelation 22:18,19.
---christan on 7/22/11

Sorry Charia

Hard to tell legitimate questions from loaded ones sometimes, pray I will always give the benefit of the doubt.

---paul on 7/22/11

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Considering Ephesians 4:11-13 Are there modern day apostles? If one claims to be an apostle, would you believe him?

All who claim to be sent by God, be it prophet or apostle must meet a very simple standard:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and o the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
---francis on 7/22/11

Peter, The word "apostle" means much more than "to send a person" (from "a-" to + "post" send + "-le" a person), for every believer is sent to share the gosple: But the Greek word "apostle" more accurately means, "eye witness from Jesus" (from Gk: "opos" an eye + "teleo" perform), an "ambassador or official representative from Jesus": "apostle" customarily is reserved to mean "one of 12 men who were the contemporary disciples of Jesus" who were called and sent out two-by-two to propagate his gospel, and commonly it was an evangelist who seen Christ firsthand and was sent out as his emissary to minister.
---Eloy on 7/22/11

I've noticed TBN/Daystar have a lot of ProFits!

The WWF (World Wide Wrestling) of Christainity!
---John on 7/23/11

//an Apostle is an Entrepreneur (business starter).//

An entrepreneur is the last person an apostle should be. an Apostle continues the work of our lord, jesus christ, and should not be a self-starter. a true apostle dies to himself and is quickened by the Spirit. An apostle starts nothing...cannot do the lord's work without the lord. both peter and paul are great examples.

//Well, if someone is a real apostle, the person does not have to tell me what the person's label//

in fact, when anyone leads with a title, i try to find a way to slip away.
---aka on 7/23/11

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That here ARE apostles, there are - after all, 'apostle' just means 'sent out' [by God]. But as Cluny points out, if we feel we are sent as missionaries, it's not really our job to decide if we are or are not apostles - that's God's job
---Peter on 7/22/11

Paul, "To say no is to disagree with scriptures.
But by the nature of the question one would suspect you have another view, like a lion waiting to jump on a gazelle." I don,t make a habit of jumping on gazelles, or others for having opinions other than what I believe. I asked because I had heard criticism of a particular church and it's pastor, commonly referred to as an apostle. I understood the verses to include this point in time, but others say no, it was only the 12 etc.
---chria9396 on 7/22/11

In Orthodoxy, the title "Apostle to the...." or "Equal of the Apostles" is given to those who were the first to evangelize a given people or area, such as St. Innocent Veniaminov, or St. Nina of Georgia (this is the Georgia in the Caucasus, not in the southern USA).

Funny thing: neither claimed to be an apostle during his/her lifetime.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/11

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