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What Affects Your Beliefs

Does your Christian denomination, doctrine and practice reflect the local political and cultural influences?

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 ---Allan on 7/22/11
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StrongAxe you would have us believe that any man is a better witness than God? You jest.

Further Jesus, being Creator, was there at the beginning and always treated Genesis as literal history. No-I think it is a bit fuzzy at the beginning nonsense, from Him or any of those chosen to write His word.

There are twelve hours in a day (i.e. daylight) and who better to confirm that than the creator of the day!
---Warwick on 7/31/11


Alan: "Yours are." Specific examples, please.

Axey, Cluny: OK, you don't like "24-hour days" or "ordinary days", so let's use the generic "units". The implication of Exo 20:8-11 is that Jesus created the world in six equal "units" and rested the seventh one. He then commands that we count these "units" and rest on the seventh one. If seven of these units define a week, how can they not be "ordinary days", and how can they be construed as millenia, when no one lives long enough to count them? You are really reaching to exhalt Crazy Charlie above Moses! Why?
---jerry6593 on 7/31/11


Rhonda:

You said: ... Christ said there were 12 hours in a day

Let us be precise: John 11:9
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."

He said ARE. He didn't say there ALWAYS WERE. The idea of "hours" was a custom introduced by the Romans, dealing with guard duty shift rotations. And yes, all humans throughout recorded history have looked at days as being effectively "24 hour solar days". However, the first few 5 were BEFORE recorded history because there were no humans there to observe or record them. Moses was not an eyewitness to them. And there were no hours counted then.
---StrongAxe on 7/31/11


beliefs are based on what the Bible does not say (i.e. assuming that the first few creation days ARE, in fact, 24-hour days, even though it never says so).
*****

Where would one have to assume seeing Christ said there were 12 hours in a day John 11:9 ...failing to comprehend there are 24 hours in a day then mankind would have NO SAVIOR seeing Matt 12:39-40 is a SIGN of 3 days ...no understanding of a day than Christ lied or was a fraud ...can't have it both ways either BELIEVE Christ or people who are TAUGHT to undermine reject and dismiss the VERY WORDS of Christ Jesus

Choose EVERY Word from Holy Scripture not mans words ABOUT Gods Word
---Rhonda on 7/30/11


\\You are on a slippery slope when your religious beliefs are based on what the Bible DOES NOT SAY.\\

But YOU are on a slippery slope, jerry, because YOUR religious beliefs are based on what the Bible does NOT say.

NOWHERE does the Bible say the days of creation were ordinary days. You are just ASSUMING it mwans "ordinary days."

And you know what you do to yourself when you ASSUME.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/11




jerry6593:

You keep putting words in my mouth (or thoughts in my head) that are not there. My beliefs are not based on what the Bible does not say. My beliefs are based on what the Bible ACTUALLY DOES, in fact, say.

It is peoplle like YOU and Warwick whose beliefs are based on what the Bible does not say (i.e. assuming that the first few creation days ARE, in fact, 24-hour days, even though it never says so).

I am perfectly willing to posit that they MAY be 24 hour days, but I do not hang my faith that they ARE, because the Bible does not say that they are.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/11


Jerry .... "You are on a slippery slope when your religious beliefs are based on what the Bible DOES NOT SAY"

Yours are.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/30/11


Axey: "I never said "the first days were not 24 hours". I just said "the Bible nowhere SAYS they were 24 hours"."

You are on a slippery slope when your religious beliefs are based on what the Bible DOES NOT SAY.

Drop the 24 hours. Use "ordinary days" instead. Any intellectually honest person would only get "ordinary days" from reading Exo 20:8-11. There is not even a hint of long age Evolution in it. The desire to insert such a foreign (to the Bible) concept into God's handwritten Creation account must come from somewhere other than the Bible. Where does yours come from?
---jerry6593 on 7/30/11


Warwick:

You are putting words in my mouth. The length of a day is determined by the relative positions and orientations of the sun and earth. Yes, this has to do with the earth spinning on its axis. However, it is the RELATIVE POSITIONS and NOT the spinning that defines the day. There WAS no relative position before there was a sun.

And even if you insist that it IS the spinning of the earth that defines it, how could you possibly measure even that, BEFORE there was an earth to spin in the first place?
---StrongAxe on 7/30/11


StrongAxe, the eath and light were created on day one!

As you have finally admitted day-length is determined by the time taken for the earth to do one revolution around its axis. Therefore the source of the light, or even the absence of light does not affect this rate of revolution.

In reality day and night are created by the presence of a fixed light-source in relation to the earth. What God has written in Genesis 1:3-5 makes it obvious that day is day and night is night no matter what the light source is.

God defines day-length in Genesis 1:3-5 and says the following days of creation were all the same length.

He confirms all 6 days and 7th of rest are the same length (and 24hr days) in Exodus 20:8-11.
---Warwick on 7/29/11




Warwick:

You asked: I ask again: does light or the time the earth takes to complete one revolution, determine day-length?

Throughout the Bible, days begin in the evening. From the point at which the sun was created, "evening" was defined by the respective positions of the earth and the sun. Today we recognize that such position is determined by the rotation of the earth about its orbit, so the answer to your question is yes. However, "does" in your question is present tense. This is how day length IS NOW determined (and has been, since day 4).

However such a measurement is MEANINGLESS when there is no sun to compare to (in days 1-3), and especially when there is not even an earth (in days 1-2).
---StrongAxe on 7/29/11


StrongAxe I have very carefully pointed out to you I use 24hr day to make it clear what I mean. As we see daily, one day is the time taken for the earth to complete one revolution in regard to a light source, which we call the sun. What the light source is or was in not relevant.

You claim the length of a day cannot be known until the sun was created. You said the sun controls day length. I have asked you this question quite a few times and you have evaded answering.

I ask again: does light or the time the earth takes to complete one revolution, determine day-length?

As Jerry has shown God's 6 creation days were all of the same length and obviously ordinary earth-rotation, evening and morning, 24hr days.
---Warwick on 7/28/11


scott:

There is a large difference between an individual making false predictions on his own behalf (as in your three Catholic examples), and an organization making false predictions and teaching them as doctrine and requiring everyone to believe them (as the Jehovah's Witnesses have done on many occasions).
---StrongAxe on 7/28/11


"False prophets." Cluny

Roman Catholic Cardinal Nicholas de Cusa (1401-1464 AD) held the end of the world would come in the year 1700 AD.

Catholic scholar, Arnald of Villanova predicted the AntiChrist would appear in 1378 AD. Visions of The End, McGinn, page 147

Even Pope Gregory I (590-604 AD) predicted the end of the world was near in a letter to Ethelbert (a European monarch) He advised: "The end of the present world is already near...All these things are not to come in our days, but they will follow upon our times." Visions of the End-Apocalypticism in the Wake of the Lutheran Reformation, Bernard McGinn, page 64.

False Prophets?
---scott on 7/28/11


jerry6593:

I have never once here argued against that. All I have said was that some people are making their own assumptions about just what "day" means in this context, when the Bible is not specific, especially with regards to the first few days before the sun was created.

I never said "the first days were not 24 hours". I just said "the Bible nowhere SAYS they were 24 hours".

Warwick keeps arguing the first point (which I have never contested), while ignoring the second.
---StrongAxe on 7/28/11


Cluny: "In traditional taxonomy, bacteria are considered part of the plant kindgom. They can be chemosynthetic--and some are extremophyles."

What about these? .....

Gen 1:11-13 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Glory to the REAL Jesus Christ! You know, the Creator Himself who wrote "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth".
---jerry6593 on 7/28/11


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Axey: "I am not in any way undermining what the Bible SAYS. All I am doing is to point out that there are some things that it DOES NOT SAY"

OK then, I'll take you at YOUR word. Here is what the Bible DOES say:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Do you believe what it clearly says or do you argue against it?
---jerry6593 on 7/28/11


\\Thus there is no lie. JW's are 'prophets' in that they speak for God, but not 'inspired prophets' in that they do not claim any special divine revelation to predict future events.\\

If JFW are not inspired prophets, then they are merely speaking in themselves, and thus are false prophets.

And JFWs don't speak for the TRUE God, but something they have made up.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/11


Yes Cluny, the Adventists couldn't agree on 1844 or 1874.

However, the Bible Students as Jehovah's Witnesses were called discerned from Daniel 4 and Revelation 12 the 'appointed times of the nations' (Lu.21:24) would end in 1914, and the time when Christ began his invisible rule in heaven.

The Watchtower article of April 1, 1972 drew attention the fact that anyone speaking on God's behalf can be termed a prophet. You are inaccurate with your statement from 'Reasoning From the Scriptures' which states 'Jehovah's Witnesses are not inspired prophets'.

Thus there is no lie. JW's are 'prophets' in that they speak for God, but not 'inspired prophets' in that they do not claim any special divine revelation to predict future events.
---David8318 on 7/27/11


\\Adventists believed 1874 marked the time when Jesus returned.\\

Try again. I's 1844.

**Jehovah's Witnesses do not predict.**

In March or April of 1974, the cover article of the WATCHTOWER, "They shall know that a prophet was among them," says that Jehovah's False Witnesses are prophets.

In their 1986 book REASONING TOGETHER FROM THE SCRIPTURES, they say, "No, Jehohah's [False] Witnesses are not prophets. They do make mistakes."

Question: When did the organization lie--in 1974 or 1986?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/11


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MarkV- Jehovah's Witnesses as known today did not exist prior to or in 1874. So you are speaking complete rubbish and falsehood in an effort to misrepresent Jehovah's Witnesses.

Adventists believed 1874 marked the time when Jesus returned.

The Bible Students (as JW's were called prior to 1931) realised from Daniel 4 and Revelation 12 that the 'times of the Nations' or 'Gentile times' would end in 1914. They started printing the Watchtower in 1879 pointing to 1914 as a marked year on the Bible calendar.

You however are a false prophet of Hellenic, Neo-Platonic trinity, hell-fire and immortal soul doctrines.
---David8318 on 7/27/11


David, Jehovah Witnesses are false prophets.

"And He said, 'see to it that you be not misled:" for many will come in My name, saying, "I am He," and, the time is at hand: do not go after them" ( Luke 21:8 ).

And that is exactly what the Jehovah Witnesses claim to speak for the "I am" Jehovah, and proclaim "The time is at Hand" For they said, Jesus returned in 1874.
We are called to "flee from them"
And flee we shall.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/11


Jehovah's Witnesses do not predict. JW's study the scriptures including prophecies to Keep on the watch, and to watch World events as they fulfill Bible prophecies.

'Predictions', or more correctly- prophecies- have already been recorded in the Bible by Jehovah. When the time is right, God reveals the meaning of his prophecies to his people.

In 1879, Jehovah's Witnesses knew Christ would return invisibly in Kingdom power in 1914- 'ruling in the midst of his enemies'. It is not how StrongAxe would have everyone believe.

But I'm beginning to believe StrongAxe has something against people studying Bible prophecies. Possibly a reflection of his own inadequacies as a student of the Bible?
---David8318 on 7/27/11


Alan, I hope this helps. Everyone lost is under the Law. They need Christ perfect works, because their works are not perfect, the reason no one can be saved by the law.
One Example, the story of the Rich man who was lost. Jesus gave him a test by asking him questions, and he answered he had done them all. Jesus told him to give up his money, and he didn't want to, so he walked away. Everyone under the law cannot keep the whole law. Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect, go sell everything" He had to be perfect which was impossible for the rich man. Then the disciples asked Him. "Who can then be saved?" And Jesus answered, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"
---Mark_V. on 7/27/11


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It's one thing to make a conjecture, be proven wrong, and then to humbly admit a mistake.

It's another thing to make prediction after prediction, and after each one is proven wrong, to keep insisting that you actually DID get it right, it just meant something different (i.e. "Jesus DID return, just invisibly", etc.)

The Jehovah's Witnesses have done this. Harold Camping has done this.
---StrongAxe on 7/26/11


our works/responsibility is to believe on Jesus (John 6:28,29) as mima was pointing out.
****

mima's version and misunderstanding contradict Holy Scripture ..."just believe" rejects Holy Scripture - simply ANOTHER doctrine and ANOTHER Christ 2Corin 4:11

Christ grants rulership in Gods Kingdom based on a LIFETIME of overcoming and obeying ...watered down version simply dismisses Holy Scripture that explains the responsibilities REPLACING IT with the lie to click your heels 3 times and profess " a christ" ...Christ WARNED MANY who will come IN his name ...cultural influences reflect the worlds way not Gods Way of life

I choose Gods Word rather than mans words ABOUT Gods Word
---Rhonda on 7/26/11


If you accept Jesus as Savior and mean it and turn your life around people will notice.I remember about a week after I was saved the wildest girl who worked on my floor.I'm a retired nurse worked on the surgical floor at that time.Said to me what happened ? You get religion or something? My life was so changed and it had become obvious to all who knew me that I had.I was a whole diffirent person.I didn't even try to change that I was aware of.Jesus did it all! Born again is not a figure of speech.To this day I'm absolutely convinced of everything in the New Teatament.The Old not? But I live under New testament law.
---shirley on 7/26/11


Mark & James ... Would anyone call on the name of the Lord unless they already had some degree of belief?

I suppose the calling can't work if you are believing in something false (or incomplete)

BUt then Jesus says if we have faith as small as a grain of mustard ...
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/26/11


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Cluny I haven't answered your question as I thought it was a rhetorical one.

What you believe and disbleieve about Scripture has been plastered on these pages, for all to see. Why then would you ask me to tell you what you believe?

Have you forgotten?
---Warwick on 7/26/11


Willa, I am pleased you believe in the 6 creation days as being 24hrs. God does and has told us so.

I see absolutely no legitimacy in StrongAxe's argument for at least two reasons:

It does not come from a straight-forward reading of Genesis 1 or any other part of Scripture.

And secondly Scripture directly contradicts his view.

The points you made in StrongAxe's favour are not sensible arguments.

Please note he will not answer my question on what controls day-length. He cannot as an honset answer would destroy his 'house of cards' view.
---Warwick on 7/26/11


That the creation days are 24hrs is obvious. Hebrew scholars say Genesis was written as history.

Even liberals (who do not believe Genesis is history) agree. For example, the Oxford Hebrew scholar James Barr wrote:

" probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 111 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:
creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience."

When people reject 24hr day creation they do so for nonBiblical reasons.
---Warwick on 7/26/11


jerry6593:

I am not in any way undermining what the Bible SAYS. All I am doing is to point out that there are some things that it DOES NOT SAY, and that anyone who believes those things anyway is doing so based on his own interpretation and NOT on what the Bible ACTUALLY says.

Warwick keeps bringing up arguments galore about how the days of creation "must be" 24 hours long, but not a single verse that ACTUALLY says they are.
---StrongAxe on 7/26/11


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James, I completely agree with you. Many have just called on the name of the Lord, and as we can see there has been no change in them. At the beginning they talk a lot of religious talk but later fall away for lack of saving faith. Saving faith comes from God. ( Romans 10:9, 10)
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and "believe in your heart" -(believing from the heart through saving faith )- that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved, for with the heart man believes resulting in righteousness, and with "the mouth he confesses," resulting in salvation" So whoever those people are, that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved ( Romans 10:13 ).
---Mark_V. on 7/26/11


Warwick,

"I do believe it speaks of a 24 hour day"
As my post said this is what I would have you believe. All I said was I see why he feels as he does. But I have no need to explain myself to you and will not be to wonderfully wise as to call everyone who disagrees with me "ignorant", though I certainly could. And maybe all of those statements could be something you should consider.
---willa5568 on 7/26/11


\\have you considered how the vegetation of day three could have survived the prolonged periods of darkness (freezing) and light (burning)?\\

In traditional taxonomy, bacteria are considered part of the plant kindgom. They can be chemosynthetic--and some are extremophyles.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/11


\\You obviously have trouble with plain English!\\

You've refused several times to answer my question about what you think I think, but **I** have trouble with plain English?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/11


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Axey: I still can't understand WHY you fight so hard to undermine the validity of the Bible when you claim to be a Bible-believing Christian. It makes more sense to me to search for the ways that science confirms the Bible, rather than searching for the ways the Bible can be distorted to confirm some man-made theory of questionable scientific pedigree.

In your "first-three-days-were-millions-of-years" paradigm, have you considered how the vegetation of day three could have survived the prolonged periods of darkness (freezing) and light (burning)?
---jerry6593 on 7/26/11


StrongAxe, Scripture is clear, as I have repeatedly shown, that God's 6 days of creation are the same length as an ordinary day,as per Exodus 20:8-11, what we call a 24hr day. I have been through this repeatedly with you explaining '24hr day' is the clear way of explaining an evening and morning earth-rotation day. As per Genesis 1:3-5.

I ask you to supply any Scripture which disagrees with what I have said.

And I remind you for the fourth time that you have avoided answering my question: Is day-length determined by the source of the light or the time taken for one earth-rotation?

Your unwillingness to attempt an answer demonstrates, for all to see, that you cannot answer without destroying your house of cards!
---Warwick on 7/26/11


Willa, you are willaingly ignorant.

The 2 Peter verse you misquote regards God being outside of time, not about earth-time.

God, having created light, says-the evening and the morning were the first day. He repeats this same formula for all the remaining creation days, confirming this in Exodus 20:8-11. But you would have us believe He has lied as there was no light until He created the sun!

Question: What will provide light in heaven?

You have little respect for the word of God, always ignoring what He says unless you agree! How magnanamous!

BTW 'evening' is the end of daylight and morning is the end of darkness which were, the last time I looked, the two components of a 24hr day. Just as God says.
---Warwick on 7/26/11


StrongAxe,

let me throw something in the mix. "a day with the Lord is like a 1000yrs and a 1000yrs like a day". And it saying "evening and morning" is only half a day. Considering there is no sun or moon giving light to the earth, which is how we know a day has taken place, your argument is legitimate though I do believe it speaks of a 24 hour day.
---willa5568 on 7/25/11


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Warwick:

You said: That one day is an earth-rotation 24hr day is what Scripture says

No, it does not. There is not a single verse in the entire bible that ever mentions "24 hour day", nor is there any verse that mentions the earth's rotation with respect to counting days. You might be able to convincingly argue that the Scripture implies that these are the case, but it doesn't say so anywhere.

Of course, if I am wrong, please show me which verse actually specifically mentions 24 hour days and/or talks about the earth's rotation, and I will stand corrected.
---StrongAxe on 7/25/11


James_L:
Point taken. I don't have a lot of time on CN so I often don't know the finer details of others beliefs.
---Haz27 on 7/25/11


Cluny in your desperation to defend indefensible views you write ".. you think God speaks in everyday language....."

I certainly do believe God's word is His absolute truth from Him via men He chose and inspired to write His truth for us. And obviously in everyday language.

Considering Exodus 20:8-11 the languarge is very everyday as God tells His followers "...Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work... Why? For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day...."

You obviously have trouble with plain English!
---Warwick on 7/25/11


\\We all know what 6-days means in everyday language but strangely some like you forget what it means when you read Genesis 1! So you know what I mean if I say I work for 6-days but you don't know what it means when God says it! Bizarre.\\

What's bizarre is that you are under the impression you think the same way God does, or He thinks the same way you do. That you think God speaks in everyday language shows the depth of your confusion.

If you're so confused about this issue, I guess I can never get you to say what you think I think.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/11


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Haz27,

I don't see mima advocating belief in Jesus, I see him/her advocating saying a prayer. There is a big difference. I was raised under the heinous "sinner's prayer" doctrine, and asked God to forgive me, Jesus to forgive me, Jesus to come into my heart, etc. If it can be prayed, I prayed it. HUNDREDS of times from the age of 6 until I was 27.

Then I read a book explaining WHY Jesus died, which I NEVER knew before.

Right around my 28th birthday I believed in Jesus for the first time after two decades of trying pray for my salvation.

We don't pray for our salvation, Jesuus died for our salvation.

I have also explained Romans 10:13 to mima, and asked what is meannt by verse 20?

no answer
---James_L on 7/25/11


Rhonda:
You are correct to say "Scripture NEVER implies any physical mortal human would be like Christ in the flesh"

Thank God it is by grace that we are saved. And our works/responsibility is to believe on Jesus (John 6:28,29) as mima was pointing out.

As for "perfection",
Heb 10:14 "For by one offering he has perfected for ever them that are sanctified"

And, the sin the world is convicted of is unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9. This is the sin 1John speaks of.
---Haz27 on 7/24/11


Cluny, you attempt to argue against the days of creation being 24hrs, by saying the "rotation of the earth has varied over time?" In reality the earth's rotation has not changed but measurements show the speed of rotation is decreasing to a very small degree.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with God's 6 creation days being the same length.

If the days were of different length why would God use language which proves they are not?

We all know what 6-days means in everyday language but strangely some like you forget what it means when you read Genesis 1! So you know what I mean if I say I work for 6-days but you don't know what it means when God says it! Bizarre.
---Warwick on 7/24/11


//funny how that ONE statement contradicts almost the entire teachings of Christ and Apostles James 1:22-25
is this IMPLYING that this ONE verse overrides all other verses ...or someone has a gross misunderstanding of ONE verse?//
It has to do with right division 2Tim. 2:15.
Who does James address his letter to? James 1:1
---michael_e on 7/24/11


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\\That one day is an earth-rotation 24hr day is what Scripture says. The idea you and few others push is not mentioned in Scripture.\\

Are you aware that the rotation of the earth has varied over time? So the days of Genesis could have been longer or shorter than 24 of our present hours. Furthermore, as StrongAxe and Moses point out, the sun and moon weren't created till the third day.

\\ That is why you cannot give any Scriptures to support your non Biblical view.\\

Please tell me what my view is, beyond saying that God works through natural processes that He Himself established.

Be specific.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/24/11


Are you suggesting that should Christians slip up and do wrong (e.g deceit, coveting, etc) that they prove themsleves to be "counterfeit" Christians?
****

then are you suggesting perfection? No person on this earth will ever be sin-free 1John 2:4, 1:10

broad wide gate refers to the EASY road ...those who believe they have no responsibility because they are taught that lie by false ministers

the responsibility is to walk WITH Christ learning to overcome SELF, the world & its god and sin ...Holy Scripture NEVER implies any physical mortal human would be like Christ in the flesh

following cultural influences OVER the narrow gate which is responsibility to be influenced by Gods way of life
---Rhonda on 7/24/11


Cluny if God's word wasn't in our terms we couldn't understand it!

You write "All he's saying is that God doesn't reckon time the same way you do." A statement of the obvious as He is eternal having created days, months and years only for us. "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day" is God's word for us in our terms. This is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11. Any other meaning causes one of His 10 Commandments-inscribed by Him-to be nonsensical. Who is nonsensical man or God?

That one day is an earth-rotation 24hr day is what Scripture says. The idea you and few others push is not mentioned in Scripture. That is why you cannot give any Scriptures to support your non Biblical view.
---Warwick on 7/24/11


\\Peter was speaking of God's eternality,\\

Was he? If he were, he wouldn't be using temporal references.

All he's saying is that God doesn't reckon time the same way you do.

\\This is directed to man and in man's terms isn't it? \\

Not necessarily.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 7/23/11


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//Anything outside of the Bible is FALSE and of the devil according to the Bible.//

Anything outside of the Word is FALSE and of the devil according to the Word.

i.e. Anything outside of the context of the Bible is FALSE and of the devil according to the context of the Bible.

the truth is in the Word, and not words.
---aka on 7/23/11


Rhonda:

When one verse apparantly contradicts another you can't just pick one and say the others are false - othewise, you accuse the Bible of containing error. Rather, you need to find an understanding of the underlying reality under which both statements are true, each in its own way.
---StrongAxe on 7/23/11


"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.'" (Romans 10:12-13)

So, if we do what God means by call "on the name of the LORD", He is rich to us, by sharing His own love with us > "Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, while we do what God means by His word, God does not let culture stop Him from sharing with us His own love with Heaven's quality and beauty of pleasant "rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:29)
---Bill_willa6989 on 7/23/11


God has said whosoever calls upon his name shall be saved.
How much simpler can it be? ---mima on 7/23/11
Mima when I was young I was taken to evangelistic meatings,
and often because of peer pressure would respond to alter calls,
and say the repeat after me prayers. Was I saved because I said the words?
Or was it when I poured my heart out to God in private meny years later?
When was I saved?
---dowanor on 7/23/11


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Rhonda:
Whilst I admire your stance on marriage I am curious about your challenege on mima saying "God has said whosoever calls upon his name shall be saved."

James 1:22-25 does not contradict mima's point. It supports it. Our works are to believe on Jesus
John 6:28-29.

Are you suggesting that should Christians slip up and do wrong (e.g deceit, coveting, etc) that they prove themsleves to be "counterfeit" Christians?
---Haz27 on 7/23/11


Rhonda: Salvation is based on faith in Christ not on yourself or your works. You are judged whether you accepted or rejected Christ.

John 10 NIV
9 I am the gate, whoever enters through me will be saved.

John 11 NIV
25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die, 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

John 20 NIV
31 But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 4 NIV
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
---poopsey on 7/23/11


God has said whosoever calls upon his name shall be saved.
How much simpler can it be?
****

funny how that ONE statement contradicts almost the entire teachings of Christ and Apostles James 1:22-25

is this IMPLYING that this ONE verse overrides all other verses ...or someone has a gross misunderstanding of ONE verse?

new-age counterfeit christianity is an EASY simple WIDE OPEN BROAD ROAD ...which Holy Scripture says is the road to destruction Matt 7:13

The big LIE counterfeit christianity SELLS is there is no responsibility which by citing Acts 2:21 they teach their evil doctrine Matt 7:21-26
---Rhonda on 7/23/11


"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." John 1:10, "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:19

"The world cannot hate you, but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." John 7:7, "He that loveth his life shall lose it, and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." John 12:25,

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine." John 17:9
---christan on 7/23/11


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It use to, but not anymore. I follow scripture now, not denominations.Denominations divide people when we should be united in scripture.
---Candice on 7/22/11

Amen Candice!
---David on 7/23/11


What I believe is based on study study of the Bible in the purest non-symbolic manner possible.
Example of belief.
The Bible states that God cannot lie.
God has said whosoever calls upon his name shall be saved.
How much simpler can it be?
---mima on 7/23/11


Cluny the conclusion is obvious to anyone who believes all God's word. Peter was speaking of God's eternality, He not living in days of any length.

In Genesis 1 God is telling man what He did, in man's terms. This is confirmed by Exodus 20:11 where God wrote on tablets of stone that His people were to work 6 days, rest the 7th because He created in 6 days, rested the 7th.

This is directed to man and in man's terms isn't it?

The idea the first 3 creation days are or could be of different length than the next 3 is ludicrous. Why would God define 1 day (Genesis 1:3-5) then say He created in 6 of these, if He didn't?

You suggest God is either a liar or cannot write understandable language!
---Warwick on 7/22/11


"we are what we believe" is so true. I am baptist so people know what I believe. You can never tell what generic churches believe.
---shira3877 on 7/22/11


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Christ asked for us to follow laws of man only those that do not make us disobey Him

political and cultural influences all come from the god of this world 2Corin 4:4

Christ asked True Christians to live in the world yet not be partakers of her sins
---Rhonda on 7/22/11


I've attended the same Baptist church for 24 years. It reflects the attitudes of the middle-class black community, as they are the largest portion of our congregation. I attend because I like everyone there, but have never formally joined because there are a couple of points in their statement of faith I don't agree with. Most of the members are Democrats, too conservative for me. :-)
---John.usa on 7/22/11


Does your Christian denomination, doctrine and practice reflect the local political and cultural influences?

absolutely...without equivocation or denial...yes.

Since the fall of the first Adam to the return of the last Adam and beyond, they always did and always will.

anyone who says no is in serious oblivion/denial and they live in lala land.
---aka on 7/23/11


The issue of what forces influences doctrine and therefore, belief and practice, is critical for all of those who claim faith in God because Believers, like all other human beings, are subject to deceit, self-righteousness and pride.

Is it not interesting that for decades, millions of professing, American Christians would focus their attention, mostly on the issues raised by the right-wing, republican party? Moreover, they would immediately condemn anyone else who spoke otherwise and then characterise their vitriolic noise making and chants of division as godly and good for America.

The questions have to be asked, who leads whom? And whose influence is practiced most consistently?
---Allan on 7/23/11


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Leslie:

You said: Anything outside of the Bible is FALSE and of the devil according to the Bible.

Can you point out just where in the Bible it says this? If you can't, then you must conclude that this idea is itself FALSE and of the devil...

Remember, 2000 years ago, all of Christianity was just oral tradition. The New Testament didn't start to be written until many decades later. If early Christians believed what you claim, the Jewish ones would have remained Jews, and the whole early Church would have been stillborn.
---StrongAxe on 7/23/11


It use to, but not anymore. I follow scripture now, not denominations.Denominations divide people when we should be united in scripture.
---Candice on 7/22/11


We are what we believe.

Paul
---paul on 7/22/11


I will answer your question by saying that none of us live in a vacuum.

We are all influenced by social, political, and cultural trends, even if it's to bewail and condemn them.

The only exception to this would be the Amish, who live in a time warp and react to modern trends, even technological, by simply ignoring them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/11


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GOD is the only one who has "influence" over me and in me. I am led by the Holy Spirit, filled with the Spirit and He leads and guides me into all truth.

I am a believer, not a demonination. I don't pay attention to the local political and cultural influences around me, does that make me stupid? I don't think so. "See ye first the Kingdom of God and ALLLLL these things shall be added unto you."

What God wants me to know, He'll tell me. One time He told me, "If it doesn't pertain to you, don't worry about it." Amen Lord.
---Donna5535 on 7/22/11


Most people (especially here on Christianet) have their denomination, beliefs, doctrines, theologies, teachings, and traditions reflecting their political and cultural world-view. However, the Bible teaches that it is to be the ONLY thing that should reflect our political and cultural world-view. Anything outside of the Bible is FALSE and of the devil according to the Bible.
---Leslie on 7/22/11


Practice - yes, Why do church services start at 11:00? So farmer have time to milk cows. Why does my church play secular music? non-chrisitians listen to secular music and we want them to feel welcome. Church pracitces are based on preferences of church and culture.
Doctrine - no, Doctrine needs to be based on Biblical teaching. doctrine is a precept. The teaching can be by different practices which is a preference.
---Scott on 7/22/11


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