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Religion Inspires Violence

For very many professing christians, violence inspired by religion or religious beliefs, is ten years old and almost exclusively, Muslim. However, if it is possible to be objective and dispassionate about the issue, has not Christianity been the most violent and divisive religion, over the years?

Moderator: Christianity taught in the New Testament is about a personal relationship with a Holy God not a religion.

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 ---Allan on 8/2/11
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2 Timothy 2:4 No man that WARRETH entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life, that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a SOLDIER.
Timothy 6:12 FIGHT the good fight of faith,

If you write in military language, expect a military outcome
---francis on 8/5/11



2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds,)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ,
---kathr4453 on 8/6/11


Trav:

You are an interesting personality.

"GOD gave us Nuclear and the heart to know when it is necessary."

"Heathens have no such qualms as history has recorded." The heathens have no qualms, but it is the heathens who have not used nuclear weapons against civilian populations.

Trav, I apologize for directing these questions to you, but the answers may help me to better appreciate your position.

Are you a christian or a believer in God, the Creator of the universe? And if your answer is yes, please could you tell me what you believe?
---Allan on 8/5/11


kathr-- You didn't specify which mistreatment of the Jews you were referring too. As you well know, the occasions have been many.
---Donna66 on 8/5/11


Allan said:
"The point of presenting the historical records is to dramatise to you that one murderer has no position from which to condemn another murderer, especially when his own hands are even more bloody than the murderer he is condemning."

Thanks for clarifying your point.

Although your allegation against "Christianity" is unfounded when you know yourself that many who claim to be Christian will be told "Depart from me I never knew you" Matt 7:23

Better to compare what the Bible and Koran teach to determine which teaches violence.

Answer: Islam is the violent one.
---Haz27 on 8/5/11


the answer is YES.
You would have to be blind not to see that the Bible is written in military language and not the ramantic language of a love letter.

Romans 13:12 put on the ARMOUR of light.
2 Corinthians 6:7 the ARMOUR of righteousness,
Ephesians 6:11 the whole ARMOUR of God,
Timothy 2:3 a good SOLDIER of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 16:14 the BATTLE of that great day of God Almighty
1 Corinthians 9:7 Who goeth a WARFARE any time at his own charges?
2 Timothy 2:4 No man that WARRETH entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life, that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a SOLDIER.
Timothy 6:12 FIGHT the good fight of faith,

If you write in military language, expect a military outcome
---francis on 8/5/11




StrongAxe, Mark 10:6 shows Jesus believes man was made at the beginning of creation. He, being Creator, has unique knowledge of this. Agreed?

I am sure He was not saying man was made on day 1. He knows this is untrue. Agreed?

He was saying man was made at the beginning of creation, that in which we live, not the beginning of the creation week.

Jesus knows man was made on day 6 and talking c4,000 years later considers this "at the beginning."

If the first 3 days were long periods, or if there was a gap in Genesis 1:1 then Jesus is wrong!

Jesus asks "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe, how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?" John 3:12
---Warwick on 8/5/11


Is there any commandment of Jesus we would obey in one case but not in the other? I would hope not.

As such, such questions are academic, but not vitally important.
---StrongAxe on 8/5/11

I agree men,women...this is a given.

Here is one denoms like. To avoid. Academic....but treated as non exsistant.

Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 26:31
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

And most are offended. Hmmm.
---Trav on 8/5/11


Warwick:

Mark 10:6
"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

I don't see how the length of the creation days has anything to do with this particular verse.

In any case, how does either one of these affect how we run our lives? Is there any commandment of Jesus we would obey in one case but not in the other? I would hope not. As such, such questions are academic, but not vitally important.
---StrongAxe on 8/5/11


Allan, I does appear this debate is being confused with other wars, and not answered from the oriiginal question of Religion VS Religion.

The VIOLENCE of Christianity began with Constantine and His vision and sword. It began with these horrible crusades and ended with Inquisitions and wars between Protestants and Catholic, trying to run and rule and conquer SAY England for exampe. But thanks be to God who is in Control, never allowed that to happen. queen Elizabth knew how to rule England and her people WITHOUT letting religion be the ruling factor.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/11


kathr4453-- I haven't forgotten the torture and murder of countless innocent Jews (are you talking about WWII?) ---Donna66 on 8/4/11

See how little people know about the Crusades? Did you know Donna whern Jews see the Cross, they do not see A Christ who loved the world so much God sent His Son to die ON a Cross. When they see the Cross, they see violence. And you thought WWII was the beginning of any persecution of Jews?

Not even in Paul's day did Christians persecute any Jews, or FORCE Jesus Christ on them, or force Christianity on them.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/11




1) Can we have chapter and verse for that? And who is "us"? Who is the "heathens"?
Please?
---atheist on 8/4/11

Heathen = GOD less.

1.Heb 10:16.... saith the Lord, I will put my "laws" into their hearts, in their minds will I write them,
2.1Chron 16:35 Say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, gather us together, deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, glory in thy praise.
Psa 79:10 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is their God? let him be known among heathen in our sight by revenging of blood of thy servants which is shed.
Psa 2:8
Ask of me,I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
---Trav on 8/5/11


Constantine and Helena TODAY:

Her feast day as a saint of the Orthodox Christian Church is celebrated with her son on 21 May, the "Feast of the Holy Great Sovereigns Constantine and Helen, Equal to the Apostles."

Also RCC they are considered Saints, and many other churches as well.

It's what they stand for...

No Original Apostle used violence in the name of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/11


As you know the NT says the reason Jesus came to die and rise again is because of what Adam did.
No other reason is given.
---Warwick on 8/4/11

The above is why i find ur attitude so repugnant n preaching and evasive teachings. You seldom have supporting witnesses in scripture.

Christ owns words states the reason he came. Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Your aware of it. It is truth. Verifed by every prophet from Moses forward and the Apostles...yet "sheep" is not your mission. Yourself, is your mission.
---Trav on 8/5/11


Donna66:

I think you misunderstood the point that is made. Moreover, stating the facts or saying something with which you strongly disagree or would prefer not to be reminded of is not an indication of hatred or evidence of malice.

I'd rather die by a bomb any day. That statement is beneath you. Of course, I am aware of the Bataan march, but there is never a time to defend or excuse atrocities committed by anyone!

Atrocities, of any kind, by anyone, is never acceptable!

The point of presenting the historical records is to dramatise to you that one murderer has no position from which to condemn another murderer, especially when his own hands are even more bloody than the murderer he is condemning.
---Allan on 8/5/11


kathr4453-- I haven't forgotten the torture and murder of countless innocent Jews (are you talking about WWII?) Were all those who did that "Christian"? Does Constantines acts really prove anything about Christianity...or just about Constantine. So only 2 out of 8 Crusades were successful. What has that to do with anything. I don't understand your point. I see no reason to either defend or villify the RCC or the Crusades of 800 yrs ago. That was then...history. The world has always been violent.

I don't understand your personal attack on my Christianity, either. Is it all because I don't agree with Allens premise?

Do you want me to post examples of all the MILLIONS killed by non-Christians? I could. but for what purpose?
---Donna66 on 8/4/11


I agree. I deserve to be ignored. So it's okay. Billions will go to hell, I'm told. I'll just go along with them, I suppose. God's will be done! AMEN!
---John.usa on 8/4/11


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My apologies my comments below, addressed to Scott, should have been addressed to StrongAxe.
---Warwick on 8/4/11


Allen--//Godless China and godless Russia have never used nuclear weapons against any population.//

No, they tortured, killed and starved and committed unspeakable atrocities upon, thousands in prison camps and gulags. They shot as many more in cold blood in front of (or along with) their wives and children.
Did you never read about the Bataan Death March in WWII? Probably not. It would be politically incorrect to teach that!
I'd rather die by a bomb any day.

But why all this comparing cultures to see who is MOST violent? It won't prove to anyone you have reason to hate Christians or the United States. If that's you're sentiment, so be it. You are entitled to believe whatever you want.
---Donna66 on 8/4/11


Allan:
Thanks for the point of correction. Guess I got stuck on the usual context I hear such questions hence missed your religion v's religion context.

But, your claims about Christianity's alleged violence are ambiguous, as which perpetrator was a follower of Jesus and which was just a cultural Christian?

As Warwick said "the Koran commands all forms of murder and violence against both Infidels and Muslims who won't join in Jihad. It is a world-wide cause of murder, violence, and hatred."

Islam is the most violent religion as Koran teaches it. Fortunately many Muslims don't follow much in the Koran.

But ultimately it comes down to the individuals whether they follow teachings in the Bible or Koran.
---Haz27 on 8/4/11


Allan:

Knowing the religious fervor with which the Japanese fought (remember the Kamikaze pilots?), the Americans reasoned that if they invaded Japan, it would turn into a guerilla war (much like Vietnam eventually did), with most of the population entrenching themselves, and ultimately costing over a million lives.

The only way to stop this was to totally demoralize the Japanese and get their "holy emperor" to surrender, after which the rest of the population would go along.

Also, neither Russians nor Chinese (nor anyone else) has dared to use nuclear weapons on their enemies or on their own people, knowing that any use of nuclear weapons was likely to provoke a similar use of nuclear weapons against them.
---StrongAxe on 8/4/11


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1)GOD gave us Nuclear and the heart to know when it is necessary.

2)Heathens have no such qualms as history has recorded.
---Trav on 8/4/11

1) Can we have chapter and verse for that? And who is "us"?

2) Can we have chapter and verse for that? Who is the "heathens"?

Please?
---atheist on 8/4/11


Allan, you are so wrong. Must be you come from a country that was not helped by the USA for you have a big grip. You said USA invaded more countries then any other, which ones? Name all of them? Then look at Russia, how many did they invaded? Another thing, concerning Christians. You group those who claim to be and those who really are. Anyone can claim anything. Claiming does not mean you are one. Example, Crusaders were paid killers. They also took for themselves what they got from their killings. They were not genuine Christians. And the reason they were paid was so that they could kill those who killed Christians. And Strongaxe is right concerning the bomding of Japan, you also forgot they attacked us.
---Mark_V. on 8/4/11


Scott, we agree on some things however I consider the truth of Genesis 1 vital.

As you know the NT says the reason Jesus came to die and rise again is because of what Adam did. No other reason is given.

From long experience I know those who evade the straight-forward meaning of Genesis 1 do so for nonBiblical reasons.

You maintain we cannot know what length the first 3 days were but God plainly says He created light-and the evening and the morning were the first day.

Those who propose unknown day length, or the Gap Theory, or long days etc do so as to place the long-ages/evolution idea into Scripture. This undermines the only historical basis of the gospel, and is directly contradicted by Jesus e.g. Mark 10:6.
---Warwick on 8/4/11


Johnusa, you may have hit the nail on the head. Quite likely I am one of few who don't ignore you!
---Warwick on 8/4/11


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Christian are human and sometimes violence, like other sins, enter our lives. Repent when this happens.
There have been and will be till Christ returns worldly leaders that proclaim to be Christians but have no personal relationship to him. They follow the worldly ways of violence. It is the Holy Spirit in the person that makes the difference.
---Harold on 8/4/11


Warwick:

Even though there are some unimportant things upon which we disagree (i.e. the length of creation days - which should not affect how we live our lives in the slightest, one way or other), it seems that we agree on the more important things (i.e. while Jesus mentioned theological truths in passing, his sermons were typically about practical matters - how we should live our lives and relate to others.)
---StrongAxe on 8/4/11


Trav:

Since the USA has invaded more countries than any other, would it be reasonable and acceptable, in time, for one of those countries that has been attacked by USA to dropped a nuclear bomb or two on your cities?
And of course, I am sure that you are a very righteous man.
---Allan on 8/3/11

First of all i am not righteous nor ever claimed to be. i seek it Isa 51:1.

You err, in that we were invited in every conflict because of our strength and integrity.
We've never attacked any nation unprovoked. We will kick ur #$%* when you do though.
GOD gave us Nuclear and the heart to know when it is necessary.
Heathens have no such qualms as history has recorded.
---Trav on 8/4/11


Trav, Are you offering your brand of christianity to anyone who does not now believe? God help us!
---Allan on 8/3/11

GOD help us truly. Most avoid this beginning step.
My Christianity does not have a brand. It is not offered or sold.
Truth is pointed too. Any interested or provoked party can help his/herself to the buffet of witnesses who left guide post,signs for those who "seek" or "travel".

ONLY GOD draws...his witnesses are multitude. I know where they reside....right in front of u.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
---Trav on 8/4/11


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Allen-- Are you talking about "religious groups" or the USA?. The USA hardly qualifies as a "religious group".
---Donna66 on 8/4/11


Warwick, you are about the only person on these blogs that asks me to explain myself whenever I post. That tells of that you are pretty much alone in misunderstanding me. So it's your problem, not mine. So please, do yourself a favor and just ignore me. Thanks. God bless. :-)
---John.usa on 8/3/11


Moderator, A-men. Christianity is about love and caring for your enemies, and not about jehad nor torturing and killing others for having different beliefs.
---Eloy on 8/3/11


Allan, you believe the USA has attacked more countries than the Romans, or Muslims?

I am not American but know it has generally fought against countries which have committed hostile acts against it, or to help others. Thank God for that! If it wasn't for this willingness the world would have been conquered by violent despotic nations.

In 1944 the population of France assisted USA, Great Britain, Canada and Australia when they (in your terms) attacked France. They were desperate to rid themselves of the tyranny of Nazi Germany.

South Koreans are still gratefull to the USA and other nations which set them free.

"Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it." Edmund Burke
---Warwick on 8/4/11


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---Donna66 on 8/3/11

Also remember the bloody massacure of countless Innocent Jews. Funny how history has a way of re-writing itself, now that Islam is in the forefront.

Don't forget out of 8 Crusades only 2 were succesful. 2 of them sent CHILDREN telling them their sins would be forgiven(LIARS)and those children were never seen again.

It's the difference between christians who see christainity as a RELIGION not having a personal realtionship with Jesus Christ and those who do. The Majority of professing Christians like yourself are RELIGIOUS.

Constantine's sword turned it into a bloody religion to this day. The CROSS on his SWORD says it all....murder in the name of Christ..
---kathr4453 on 8/4/11


Constantine I
Flavius Valerius Constantius (c. 285-337), Constantine the Great, was the son of Emperor Constantius I and his concubine, Helena. When his father died in July 306, Constantine became emperor of Britain, Gaul (now France), and Spain. Gradually he gained control of the entire Roman empire.

Constantine I invaded Italy in 312. Constantine claimed that he had a dream in which he saw the Chi-Rho symbol (a monogram composed of the first two Greek letters for the word Christ, X and P) and the words, "By this sign you will conquer." The holy monogram was painted on the shields of his soldiers. Constantine's action had an "...unfortunate and abiding effect, for the first time Christ became a god of battle.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/11


From the third century on, Christians had visited the scenes of Christ's life. In Jerusalem, St. Helena had discovered what was believed to be the True Cross and her son, CONSTANTINE (c.274-337), built the Church of the Holy Sepulcher there. Before the Muslim conquest of the 7th century, pilgrims came from Byzantium and the West in search of sacred relics for their churches. Pilgrimages were a dangerous business.

So the Pope gets a message HELP, our stealing is getting harder and harder...send help!

So here is what these PILGRIMAGES were about, stealing relicks for their churches AKA Christian Pilgrimages. AKA Idolatry!
---kathr4453 on 8/4/11


StrongAxe:

"more people would die in prolonged fighting if they DIDN'T"

You are a moral and an intelligent person. Here are a few facts:

(1) Germany, the primary force in WWII, surrendered in May, 1945
(2) Italy was in shambles and surrendered two years earlier.

(3)For months, starting in 1944, the USA bombed Japanese cities with fire-starting bombs, which not only destroyed the cities, but killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. The bombings and other attacks rendered Japan economically and militarily, defenseless.

The nuclear bombing was for the effect it would have on the world.

Godless China and godless Russia have never used nuclear weapons against any population.
---Allan on 8/4/11


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Johnusa, you wrote "Warwick, I would not expect you to agree with me about much. I've said what I've said. Take it, or leave it.... "

Just show me where my reasoning is wrong!
---Warwick on 8/3/11


Haz27:

Just a simple point of correction.

The point I made was comparing religion with religion. So, perhaps you should take another look.

What I am suggesting is that you could look at the historical record, ancient and modern, and see which religious groups have destroyed more lives over the centuries.
---Allan on 8/3/11


Trav:

These are your words: "I'm proud we dropped nuclear bombs on a country that attacked us."

Since the USA has invaded more countries than any other, would it be reasonable and acceptable, in time, for one of those countries that has been attacked by USA to dropped a nuclear bomb or two on your cities? Be careful, now! You must remember that everyday is not Monday.

And of course, I am sure that you are a very righteous man.

Trav, I have a tiny question to ask. Are you offering your brand of christianity to anyone who does not now believe? God help us!
---Allan on 8/3/11


Bill_willa--// Do Americans really believe the unborn are people created equal///
NO they do not. (regardless of what you or I think)

Is a political leader legal, according to the Constitution, if the leader does not treat unborn Americans as being equal???// Yes he is. The constitution doesn't mention unborn.

Kathr4455-- Are you sure that by 2012, most Christians were still pacifists? It appears that in the RCC at the time it was not so.

Mike--//history records that the crusades fought under the banner of the cross. so is this to convert or to conquer?// Neither primarily. It was in response to bloody massacres by the Mohammedans (Muslims) and to protect Jerusalem, the birthplace of their faith.
---Donna66 on 8/3/11


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kathr4453:

Jesus wanted us to be one with one another, and one with him. This is a unity of purpose. This speaks of a corporate unity, of all of us being one mind and spirit together.

However, when people speak of having a "relationship" with Jesus, this speaks only of the relationship that we each individually have with Jesus, and not the relationships we have with each other. The same thought is expressed by the very modern term "personal savior". This is more in line with the (also fairly modern) idea that religion is an individual matter, rather than a group matter.

Taken to its extreme, this can lead to cultlike behavior - being responsible to God alone, but not one's fellow believers.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/11


history records that the crusades fought under the banner of the cross. so is this to convert or to conquer?
---mike on 8/3/11
mike, Crusade literally mean "To the Cross".

Because The RCC puts so much of The (14)Stations of the Cross, their idolotry was making Jerusalem just another IKON in their Church, along with all the artifacts they claim to have from the Crucifiction, and some imaginary ones as well.

And StrongAxe,

I in them and thou in me that we may be ONE. You can't get any more PERSONAL than that. But this is where we place our heart and soul...having a Personal relationship with God through Christ made possible ONLY "Through the Cross"..not TO the Cross.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/11


Storng axe you wrote "You're safe with Christians who use Jesus as a role model, but not Muslims who use Mohammed as one." You have very accurately and succinctly summed up the truth. Good stuff!
---Warwick on 8/3/11


Allan, let me explain more simply

Jesus commands do no evil but do positive good.

Allah commands do evil, as my quote, and references show.

Therefore if a Muslim follows Allah's commands then hatred, violence and murder follows.

Conversely if a Christian follows Jesus' commands only Good follows.

Is Christ to blame if 'Christians' do evil, which He forbids, and do not do Good as He has commanded? Certainly not!

Is Allah to blame if Muslims follow his evil commands. Yes.

Therefore Islam is a cause of hatred, violence and murder.

Fortunately most Muslims ignore the violent commands.

Christianity is not a cause of hatred, violence and murder.
---Warwick on 8/3/11


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Allan:

The reason Americans dropped nuclear weapons on Japan was they determined more people would die in prolonged fighting if they DIDN'T drop the bombs than if they did.


kathr4453:

The disciples were those who "followed Jesus", not those who "had a relationship with Jesus". The whole "relationship" idea is fairly recent.


Bill_willa6989:

The key difference is that Jesus personally preached non-violence. Mohammed slew his enemies, used deceit, married more wives than he allowed to his followers, including a 6 year old, etc. You're safe with Christians who use Jesus as a role model, but not Muslims who use Mohammed as one.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/11


Christianity teaches us to follow peace with all men holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. As much as we can and which lies within us. Sometimes keeping the peace and trying to get along with others, does not work. We are to remove ourselves from these surroundings( follow peace) and disconnect from the people are thing that is causing the confusion. But Christianity does inspire one to violence. People become violent because they hate to see someone trying to be a better person. Some people want to see you down in the ditch with them. Going nowhere. This is where the saying comes from: mysery loves company.
---Robyn on 8/3/11


Conversely our Lord Jesus Christ commands we do only good:

.... Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:14-21
---Warwick on 8/2/11

Conversely. Defensive is authorized. No disciple was told to throw away his sword.

I'll protect mine & probably yours with both swords while you're overcome with your own goodness.

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:38
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
---Trav on 8/3/11


Johnusa, your reasoming is flawed. Christians follow Christ who commands no violence.
Therefore if someone calls themselves Christian but undertakes violence they are acting in direct opposition to that which they claim to believe. This defines a hypocrite.
---Warwick on 8/3/11

Rather he had my back than you. You've enjoyed your blessings while someone died defending your belief and country.
You could be worse than an "Infidel" yourself with your circular doctrinal belief you cannot follow yourself. Right...Scott, David? Defended against any verbal vehemence lately?
1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith,is worse than an infidel.
---Trav on 8/3/11


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To even suggest that a pacifist is less passionate about Christianity than a Christian who goes to war is a very strange comment, considering in the Early Church, to be a pacifist was the norm of all professing Christians. As soldiers became Christians, leaving their military occupation, they were put to death for being deserters. As time went on to the 3rd Century with so many Christians refusing military life, this became a burden on the government. Now Christians themselves were being put to death for refusing the military.

Unknown to most Roman Catholics, Maximilianus has been honored as one of the canonized saints of the church, though he died as a conscientious objector.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/11


Warwick, I would not expect you to agree with me about much. I've said what I've said. Take it, or leave it....
---John.usa on 8/3/11


Judaism and Christianity throughout history:
17,000,000 Deaths

Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years: 1,128,000,000 Deaths
---Haz27 on 8/3/11

Some promises never ended....with stipulation of course. Beacon on a Mtn, ensign on a hill....hmmm, who could that be.
Lev 26:8
Five of you shall chase an hundred, an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
Isaiah 30:17
One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one, at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
---Trav on 8/3/11


history records that the crusades fought under the banner of the cross. so is this to convert or to conquer?
---mike on 8/3/11


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Warwick:

You have continued to insist that the Koran commands killing and therefore, by conclusion, I suppose, Muslims are killers.

It should not be very difficult for you to get the history of Christianity in your own country and across the world and try to follow the bloody trail that has been left in its wake.

And while you are checking, it would prove useful to just check the murder rates of Muslim countries (before 2001) against those of Christian countries for the same period. Be sure to include your own countrys murder rate. The results should prove rather interesting for peace-loving people such as yourself.

Moreover, there might be a lesson to be learned.
---Allan on 8/3/11


Kathr-- History is what it is. It does not need to be condemned nor justified. It happened in FACT.
Nobody today feels that Jerusalem belongs, or belonged, to the Christians. But in the 2000's Christians believed this!
Jesus never "told" them to defend Jerusalem. It was their own sentiment, since they considered it the birthplace of their faith.

I don't know what the RCC thinks about Jerusalem now (nor am I particulary concerned). The Vatican today, however, IS recognized internationally (and by the UN) as an entity with all the legal rights and duties of a separate country.
---Donna66 on 8/3/11


Johnusa, your reasoming is flawed. Christians follow Christ who commands no violence. Therefore if someone calls themselves Christian but undertakes violence they are acting in direct opposition to that which they claim to believe. This defines a hypocrite.

Do we Christians sometimes fail to perfectly follow Jesus? Of course, but that is not the fault of Christ or Christianity.

Faith in Christ is not the cause of violence, the opposite.

Conversely, as I pointed out, the Koran commands all forms of murder and violence against both Infidels and Muslims who won't join in Jihad. It is a world-wide cause of murder, violence, and hatred.
---Warwick on 8/3/11


Rome invaded and occupied Jerusalem long before Jesus was born, and well after. Many believe Rome just made a costume change. So this IDEA Jerusalem belonged to Christians is far stretching.

Jesus never told the Apostles to protect Jerusalem at all costs.

WE don't fight against flesh and blood but powers and principaities and rulers in dark places.

It's one thing for a Country and her Rulers/Leaders to protect her borders and her people, but the RCC was never a Country.

The RCC now supports Islamic people in Jerusalem, and would rather they have Jerusalem than Israel.

So much for protecting it for Christians.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/11


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There is nothing in the New Testament saying that being a Christian means having a personal relationship with Jesus. That's a fairly recent dogma.
---John.usa on 8/3/11

And the Disciples were frist called Christian in Antioch.

How recent is this Dogma?
---kathr4453 on 8/3/11


According to a web site who has done some research into such a question, they obtained the following figures for deaths caused by the 2 groupings below:

Judaism and Christianity throughout history:
17,000,000 Deaths

Anti- or irreligious forces over the last 100 years: 1,128,000,000 Deaths

Seems the non-religious folk have beaten the Jews and Christians 66 to 1 and they did this in only the last 100 years without including the rest of history.

But such questions have nothing to do with real Christianity anyway.
Follow Jesus, not man.
---Haz27 on 8/3/11


How many Muslims are actually actively fighting? If the religion of Islam is so about violence, it looks like a large percentage of "Muslims" are not really Islamic. But a couple of violent acts can be shown around the world and can seem like the whole world, while you are getting it in your face on TV. But out of how many millions do we have actively violent people who claim to be Muslim?

And, by comparison, how many unborn in the United States are killed, even each day . . . violently? And is this religious? Do Americans really believe the unborn are people created equal? Is a political leader legal, then, according to the Constitution, if the leader does not treat unborn Americans as being equal???
---Bill_willa6989 on 8/3/11


Any ideology or belief system, Christian or otherwise, that elicits strong feelings in people will bring about violent behavior in some of them. Some of the talk right here on there blogs comes close to sounding threatening. And Christianity is a religion. There is nothing in the New Testament saying that being a Christian means having a personal relationship with Jesus. That's a fairly recent dogma.
---John.usa on 8/3/11


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Most violent? Objectively and dispassionatelty...no. Not when seen in the context of world history and the development of cultures. In fact, Christianity has always had a certain percentage of "pacifists" who are presumably less likely to be violent.

Those who are passionately Christian, may be divisive, however. But that's true wherever people are passionate about anything.

Most wars in history have had to do with politics or territory, not religion.

The Crusades, though ignited by religious zeal, were not un-provoked. They were in response to equally blood-thirsty attacks from Muslims and particularly the Muslim take-over of Jerusalem (extremely important to Christians of that day).
---Donna66 on 8/2/11


If a religion commands evil, and violence then its followers who do this are consistent with that religion.

Islam commands violence: Surah 4:89, "Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them whereever you find them..." See also surah's 47:4, 9:123, 8:67, 8:59,60, 8:39.

Conversely our Lord Jesus Christ commands we do only good:

"Bless those who persecute you,..do not curse...Live in harmony with one another....Do not repay evil for evil..live at peace with everyone..Do not take revenge,...If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:14-21
---Warwick on 8/2/11


"Islam has always been at war with itself (Sunni and Shiite)".

Before 2001, most professing christians knew nothing about Islam except that it was not Christianity.

Today, the same people who knew and know so little about Islam are experts.

However, above all other religions, Christianity has no position from which to "speak" about peace or infighting. Christians and Christianity have been the instruments used to murder, to plunder, to pervert justice, to subjugate and to enslave.

Right now, Christianity and professing christians need to take some time to discover The God, The Creator of the universe.
---Allan on 8/2/11


Everyone should pick up a copy of the video "Battle for Haditha."

That should help settle this.
---atheist on 8/2/11


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\\How many wars of the last 500 years would have been started by Muslims? \\

What do you think the Crusades were? They were a Christian response to mahometan jihad.

And did you know that most mahometan leaders were allied with the Nazis, such as the Mufti of Jerusalem--whose nephew (or great-nephew) was Sadam Hussein?

And if you don't know the difference between acts of war by sovereign states on the one and and random acts of terror by international criminals, this is not the place to explain it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/11


How many Muslims have dropped nuclear bombs on cities?
How many world wars would the Muslims have started? (More than 50 million men, women and children killed)

...instead of making excuses for the horrors inflicted upon the people of the world.
---Allan on 8/2/11

I'll make no excuses. Your buddy muslims would drop neverending bombs if they had the blessings we've had. They've fought non stop since Abrahams time. With each other no less.
I'm proud we dropped nuclear bombs on a country that attacked us.
When you're children are servant to the GOD-less, you won't be such a candy heart.
---Trav on 8/2/11


Jesus never used a sword violently. Not peace but a sword is spiritual. Other instances in the new testament where the word "sword" is used:

In his right hand he held 7 stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp double-edged sword. Rev 1:17

The word of God is living and powerful and sharper than a two-edge sword, it penetrates even to divide soul and spirit, joints and marrow, it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Heb 4:12

Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph 6:12

Scripture teaches scripture and we must be consistant. Paul nor any Apostle ever carried a sword, but they did carry TRUTH, at the expense of suffering for teh Gospel's sake.
---kathr4453 on 8/2/11


relationship are 2 people who communicate, interact, express without fear of BEING A PERSON (selF) bec. every person is a unique person.
but when god communicates with us, it creates more questions than answers. what is frustrating is there SHOULD BE COMPLIANCE unable to make freedom of choice. when we relate with other people we express, relate & communicate as OURSELVES with others not treated like robots
how can we have a relationship when you are FORCED to comply verses like 'deny youself' or told that self is a sin.
---mike on 8/2/11


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"How many Christians have flown planes into buildings?"

"How many Christians have gone on shooting rampages at military bases?"

It seems imminently reasonable to asked a set of corresponding questions.

How many Muslims have dropped nuclear bombs on cities? How many wars of the last 500 years would have been started by Muslims? How many world wars would the Muslims have started? (More than 50 million men, women and children killed)

The list would obviously be unending, but it would be good to have professing christians acknowledge wickedness and injustice as wickedness and injustice instead of making excuses for the horrors inflicted upon the people of the world.
---Allan on 8/2/11


moderator

people who have a personal relationship still incite violence. didn't a pastor from florida want to burn the koran
aren't there christians who hold placard thank god for dead soldiers.
bush profess about his relationship & yet he said that god told him to invade iraq.
---mike on 8/2/11


FundaMENTAL radicalism inspires and insights violence.

Paul
---paul on 8/2/11


Jesus himself stated that he did not come to bring peace.
Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
---mima on 8/2/11


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People seem to often forget the fact that saying you're a Christian & actually being Christ like(Christian) are two separate things. Most of Americans will claim to be"Christian", But to have a real relationship with God helps one control any violent actions or harm an innocent person.( I'm not talking about self defense here).A so called,"Christian religion" could possibly be questioned, just as any other religion could be. But to imply that a person living for Christ, trying their best to follow His Word, is the same as the "Christian religion", well, that's just not so. Religion is man made & fallible. A sincere relationship with God is a different subject altogether.
---Reba on 8/2/11


\\However, if it is possible to be objective and dispassionate about the issue, has not Christianity been the most violent and divisive religion, over the years?\\

How many Christians have flown planes into buildings?

How many Christians have gone on shooting rampages at military bases?

How many Christians have come from Europe and driven other Christians out of their own homes and lands where they lived for centuries, claiming it was theirs on the basis of the OT?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/11


This is very tough question because you have to separate the politics and the religion but you cannot. You can say that there has been no religious violence because it is human preference and desire to be more in control, bigger, powerful, wealthy, than another. Religion is a good excuse to behave badly and inspire people to fight to maintain power or gain power. Islam has always been at war with itself (Sunni and Shiite), and conquring territory. In Christianity England - Spain, England - Ireland, RCC - Protestant, the inquisition. All of this has been done not for religion but human empowerment. That is why religion fails because it is your ideas to reach God not God coming to you.
---Scott1 on 8/2/11


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