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Ark Of The Covenant

People have sought to find the Ark of the Covenant for centuries without finding it. I've never heard this from any source but it makes more sense to me for God to have destroyed the Ark when the First Covenant was done away with. Ideas or info?

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Ruben, concerning your answer from 1 Tim. 3:16 go to 3:5-7 first, we are given instructions of what the Church of God should be,
"For if man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God? Not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil" That was before (16) you gave. That doesn't sound like your church with idol worship, and pride to people outside the church? Then you said,
"Show me where I said she was and where the catholic church say she is our saviour?" I will tell you, I will write it again,
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


Ruben 2: Pope Pius IX wrote"Upi Primum" written 1849 for the RCC Church.
"The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God. Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and his Church, Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin"

Mary is presented, between Jesus and the Church. on the throne of God, delivering the Christian people. And what about Jesus? no mention of Him saving His people, or even on the throne after His resurrected. Your leader spoke.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


Mark_V. Ruben, you still look for verses that can help you to do what you love to do.

Speaking about scripture verses, again why is your interpretation correct over mine?

Mark_V.* You are still in bondage to your Church and what they teach.

Scripture tell us the Church is the pillar and truth(1 tim 3:16)

Mark_V.* Mary is not the Savior.

Show me where I said she was and where the catholic church say she is our saviour?

Mark when you try to interpret the scriptures outside of the living Tradition of the Church who by the way gave us them, you end up 'twisting the scriptures to thier own destruction', 2 peter 3:16 tell us about that!
---Ruben on 9/21/11


Ignatius, you continue to approve what you do. Comparing a picture of a son or daughter is not making graven images and bowing to them or serving them, But that is exactly what all of you do. You are visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate God" And that Second Commandment is not found in the catechisms of the RCC why? because they do bow down to them and even worship them, big difference don't you realize that? The lost worship idols, cars, and craven images of saints and Mary and bow down on their knees and worship them.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


"They have them there so others can see what their children look like." (Mark V)

We had this discussion before. You pointed me to Exodus 20:5 about graven Images. According to your person interpretation, we are not suppose have or make ANY graven image of ANY thing. You said a Image equals a idol and it is idolatry. I pointed out that the Greek text of the OT (LXX) makes it clear that it was NOT a condemnation on images, but only Images turned into Idols.

Now, you are approving your own graven images of loved ones (and dead ones) and hanging them on your walls? Now you don't consider them Idolatry? Why the sudden change in interpretation? Is it because I pointed out your hypocrisy?

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/21/11




"Visit any Shrine, and you will know the Truth."

I have visited the Abraham Lincoln Memorial. Does that count? How about Protestant shrines of Martin Luther (the Reformer)? Does that count?

"But not anyone I know, yet all Catholics that I know, and let me say I know hundreds of them, they all get on their knees and worship Mary and the saints"

It's only worship to you.

In IC.XC.,
---IGNatius on 9/21/11


"Stop trying to cover up and justifying your worship of idols." (Mark V)

The only here who believe we Orthodox worship Icons is you. Even several Protestant Historians/writers (and even non-Christian Historians) disagree with you here. But I guess it doesn't matter. You made up your mind.

You have graven Images, and you cover your act by saying how wrong we are or how wrong Catholics are. It doesn't matter if you hang your graven images on the wall or built altars for them. You cover up what you do by judging and condemning the outside gestures of Catholic/Orthodox Christians.

While you pass judgment on us, you don't do the same to your own Protestant brothers and sisters.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/21/11


Igantius, I don't know where you get that I'm your enemy. We are speaking of Idol worship. Something you claim does not exist. Visit any Shrine, and you will know the Truth. I'm sure there is very few outside of the Catholic religion who worships and gets on their knees before idol's that you mention. But not anyone I know, yet all Catholics that I know, and let me say I know hundreds of them, they all get on their knees and worship Mary and the saints. Now, the one who is ignorant of this facts is you. Maybe you don't get on your knees and worship and ask prayers from Mary and the saints, but I know your denomination is almost the same as the Catholics, and you would not defend them if they didn't have the same believes as yours.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


" Stop trying to cover up and justifying your worship of idols." (Mark V)

You cover up the fact that Protestant have their own graven images. Am I now become your enemy because I tell you the Truth?

"About worshipping pictures with family members. They don't get on their knees and pray to them. They have them there so others can see what their children look like."

They are graven Images. You hang these graven images on your walls, and many Protestants built altars for them.

"So stop comparing what I do to what all of you do."

You can't condemned Catholic Images, and approve your own graven images. You being a hypocrite now, Mark V. Repent.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/21/11


"I don't think you can ever show the real Jesus." (Mark V)

That hasn't prevent Protestants for making graven images of Jesus. Lutheran and Presbyterians, (etc) generally have stained windows with graven images of Christ, the Saints, and biblical events. I have their churches near my house. Are you now being "selective" in your judgement?

"You beg this images for miracles."

I do no such thing, but when I was a Pentecostal I begged a piece of cloth for miracles/healing. My parish Priest told me that any genuine miracles attributed to Icons came from God. I don't worship Icons, but you think we Orthodox do, so I am playing your game and turning the table around at your hypocrisy.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/21/11




rocky, you did say the two were relics. nevermind...

witnessing and witness are unfortunately used synonymously. the shroud is a relic and provides dubious witnessing. the ark provides witness and truth.

His witness and His salvation ...they go hand-in-hand.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven [His salvation], but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you [His witness], depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
---aka on 9/21/11


I can't believe we have so many hypocritical, self-righteous, and judgmental Christians here. Woe, to you, Pharisees! You look at the sins of others, but not your own. You cast stones on Roman/Eastern Catholics for having icons or statues, yet your Protestant friends have graven images in their churches and private homes of the cross, events from the Bible, saints from the Bible, loved ones, and even dead loved ones. Many Protestants used "bible tracts" with graven images on them.

Protestant Christians lavish their homes with graven images and built altars for them. Why are you not condemning your own people? Even Martin Luther told Christians they should lavish their homes and Bibles with graven images.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/21/11


Ignatius, however i stopped posting, because what i said is not to judge, (the truth will set us free)

nevertheless IF and i repeat IF you ever where in a protestant cult that practiced and encouraged the things you said, then you'll probably where in a catholic church in disguise.

as you see i didn't answer seriously, becaus your statement cannot be the statement of anty whi desires a genuine converstation. again what i said is NO JUDGING it is for pepople to know the truth. for this cause i came.
---andy3996 on 9/21/11


Ignatius, you are still justifying what you do by saying, we don't only do it, others do. Stop trying to cover up and justifying your worship of idols. About worshipping pictures with family members. They don't get on their knees and pray to them. They have them there so others can see what their children look like. Can you honestly say you know what Jesus really looked like? I don't think you can ever show the real Jesus. So stop comparing what I do to what all of you do. You beg this images for miracles. On your knee's, and your heart is on them not on Christ. There is a big difference. There is just no excuse.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/11


"protestants DO [not] PRAY to mary, or the pictures on their wall, " (andy)

Protestant "pray" (to ask or entreat) each other. Protestant churches usually have graven images of crosses, doves etc. Sometimes even statues. My former Pentecostal churches have graven images of the cross, even a statue of one. We even had a wall deciated to graven images of nations' flags.

Protestant homes usually have graven images of loved ones (sometimes dead loved ones) and special events. Sometimes they hang them in their walls or on a table (a altar). My Pentecostals parents have a special altar for these graven images.

Yup, Protestants are Idolaters. They need to repent before it is too late.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/11


"As I've frequently said, back when I was a Baptist (before I got saved), we said prayers to pieces of cloth.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/11

Before the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, I used to have a "prayer cloth" in which we Pentecostals will dance with it and wave it in our services. It was a good luck charm. Our Pentecostal church was full of graven images of crosses (even a wooded statue of one behind the pulpit), a dove, nations' flags, special events of the church, etc. My pastor used to wear a pagan dress, made of crosses (it was red and white with stripes). We used to pledge our life to the American flag with hand gestures and words.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/20/11


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"I'm not here to judge nor condemn. only to tell the truth, all i pray is that you would now put down your doctrines, turn to GOD and ask HIM, Christ IS READY TO SHOW TRUTH, He does not want any to perrish but all to repent.
---andy3996 on 9/20/11

1) You have been judging and condemning the moment you got here claiming billions of Catholics are Idolaters. Repent and get off your high horse of judgment and despair.

2) I found Jesus a long time ago, and started a relationship with Him as well. He showed me the Truth the moment He convicted my heart and converted me to Orthodoxy.

3) Protestants have much Images (and even in some case, Statues) in there churches and private homes as do Catholics.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/11


Ruben, how has the Truth set you free? You are still an idol worshipper. You still defend your actions. you still look for verses that can help you to do what you love to do. Your still putting your Church before Christ. Nothing has changed. You are still in bondage to your Church and what they teach. If they go to hell, don't you realize you will too? When studying think about your soul. Who you worship. Then make a decision, who do you want to follow. Mary and the saints, or Christ the Savior. Mary is not the Savior. Only One Way into heaven, through Jesus Christ. You are a good guy, but been good does not guarantee and pass into heaven, your faith must be on Christ Jesus and His works on the Cross, not in Mary or the saints. One way only.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11


\\BTW, do you also believe that they are Protestant Idolaters, as many of their churches are full of images (and sometimes statues) of crosses, doves (represent the Holy Spirit)? \\

As I've frequently said, back when I was a Baptist (before I got saved), we said prayers to pieces of cloth.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/11


Mark_V.* Ruben, when you put Christ on the Throne of your life, you will know the Truth (Christ) and the Truth will set you free.

I have Mark it has set me free. The reason I know is because I am where Jesus told all of us to be. He said he will built his 'Church' on the Rock of Peter.(MT 16:18) Scripture tell us that the 'Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 tim 3:15) Jesus never said that our Christan faith will be base 'soley' on a book and never told the apostles to write everything down! So who is really blind and in bondage?
---Ruben on 9/20/11


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Free from the bondage you are in. The bondage is so strong that it has blinded you to the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11

Mark,

Just because I do not believe in your interpretation of scripture does not mean I am blinded to the truth! I have ask you many many times why your interpretation of scripture is correct over mine, where or who gave you that authorithy? If I am in bondage then please answer the question and quit going around it. Why is your interpretation of scripture correct?
---Ruben on 9/20/11


Ignatius, how many protestants DO PRAY to mary, or the pictures on their wall, How many catholics call upon the saints when in distress? about evidence, LOURDES, FATIMA etcetera. to a true Christian worship in first or second degree of any but GOD is IDOLATRY, the "saints" should not be put before God Almighty, to call upon them is PUNNISHABLE with eternal hellfire. WITH THIS I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE LEAVE, you heard divine arguments, yet I'm not here to judge nor condemn. only to tell the truth, all i pray is that you would now put down your doctrines, turn to GOD and ask HIM, Christ IS READY TO SHOW TRUTH, He does not want any to perrish but all to repent.
---andy3996 on 9/20/11


Ignatius, nobody needs to be a prophet to see the deviation of the blind. i know the "pride of the RCC", believing they where the sole saved. thank God that since 1957 the popes recognise that one can be saved outside the RCC, but as soon they understood this, look at what happened,
the popes (especially john-Paul) travelled the world to bow down in idolic shrines sacrificing side by side with Buddhists, praying with Muslims, feasting with sjamans etcetera. Nothing the RCC does ends in true freedom. its too much this (the inquisition) or too much the other (the oecomeny) sad isn't it?
as the immaculate conception as the title Queen of heavens. 2Corinthians 11:13-16
---andy3996 on 9/20/11


"you canot really believe that pagan idolators worship the statue itself can you?"

Yup.

BTW, do you also believe that they are Protestant Idolaters, as many of their churches are full of images (and sometimes statues) of crosses, doves (represent the Holy Spirit)? Are you also against Protestant Gospel tracts which are full of images of Christ, the Apostles, etc? How about the various Martin Luther (and other Reformers) statues Protestant Christians have made and dedicated?

Who decides if one worship a Image? It's not the heart of the individual what counts? Am I and other Americans a Idolater because we made trip to witness the statue (or memorial) of Martin Luther King Jr? If not, why not?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/11


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Ruben, when you put Christ on the Throne of your life, you will know the Truth (Christ) and the Truth will set you free.
Free from the bondage you are in. The bondage is so strong that it has blinded you to the Truth. While there is many in the RCC who are saved, Idol worshipper who put their dependance on someone other then Christ cannot possibly be saved. Israel's reasons for falling all the time, was when they went back to idolatry.
I don't know if you are destine to remain that way, for God only knows the heart and who will believe His Word (Christ). You have to leave your love for mother, father, sister, brother, and those people who worship idols and follow Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/11


so all popes who went on a pelgrimage to LOURDES are idolators? because worship of the dead is just as much idolatry as worship of angels and worship of idols. By the way you canot really believe that pagan idolators worship the statue itself can you?
---andy3996 on 9/19/11

Do you also believe Americans worshiped the dead, as they make trips to statues of dead presidents (i.e., the Lincoln Memorial) or important figures in American History (such as Martin Luther King Jr.)?

How do you the Pope was worshiping (giving lateria) to images? You not claiming you are God who can read the hearts of all, are you?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/19/11


The Shroud should not be compared to the Ark as a relic.
--aka 9/19
I never compared the two.
Aka continued "Understanding scriptural 'relics' of such magnitude only can help your witness. Jesus Himself calls for witness." Calls for witness of the relics? Where? I agree it might be helpful to have knowledge about the Arc, but I dont think it necessarily makes any difference or is required to have faith and love, nor required for salvation. And worse to hold out something link the Shroud, which might be a forgery, as worthy of witnessing.
---Rocky on 9/19/11


What you haven't done is put Christ on the Throne. Someone is always in His place. Mary, the saints, the pope, and especially your Church. I don't see you defending Christ. How about a few words on His behalf. Is it to hard?
---Mark_V. on 9/17/11

Mark,

You just prove my point! At the Mass where do we put Mary or any other saints in place of Christ? Have you been paying attention on Sundays, you would have heard about Christ the whole time, but as I have already mention to you , you are ignorant of Catholic teaching. Come back to the Church Jesus founded through Peter the Rock, time is short:)
---Ruben on 9/19/11


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Ignatius //If any one claimed that they were a "ex-Catholic" (i.e., specifically one who was born and raised in a Catholic Family) who used to worshiped Statues, I have some news for you. You were never a genuine Catholic believer. The RCC has always (as evidence in her official dogmatic documents) been against false gods.// so all popes who went on a pelgrimage to LOURDES are idolators? because worship of the dead is just as much idolatry as worship of angels and worship of idols. By the way you canot really believe that pagan idolators worship the statue itself can you?
---andy3996 on 9/19/11


Christan...Neither the Arc or Shroud, or other relics are equivalent to seeing the evidence that Jesus was Christ.as did Thomas.
---Rocky on 9/17/11

The Shroud should not be compared to the Ark as a relic.

Understanding scriptural "relics" of such magnitude only can help your witness. Jesus Himself calls for witness. For those who do not see it is understandable. For those who see it and throw it away, truly shows that they have little understanding of what they preach.
---aka on 9/19/11


Cluny the remark you made is false justification for idolatry.
fact stays that the idea of a different worship is contradicted by scripture itself
if you can quote the Sh'ma you'll understand. in Africa pagans have no problem worshipping catholic style since its the same. unbelievers see this, how come that papes have totally blinded their followers whilst their own theologians disagree. unless of course they received power from the dark.
keeping saints honorable is acceptable
to pray to them and invoke upon them is pure idolatry. i could give a hundred scriptures but i will not. because the blindest of all is the one who refuses to see.
---andy3996 on 9/19/11


If any one claimed that they were a "ex-Catholic" (i.e., specifically one who was born and raised in a Catholic Family) who used to worshiped Statues, I have some news for you. You were never a genuine Catholic believer. The RCC has always (as evidence in her official dogmatic documents) been against false gods. The RCC worshiped ONLY one God (the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob). You may have gone to Mass to hear God's word every Sunday. You may have been Baptized and took the Eucharist, but you was never a Catholic Christian. You was a Pagan worshiper.You are a "ex-pagan" not a "ex-Catholic". You worshiped Satan. True Catholics do not. That's YOUR sin, not the RCC.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/19/11


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Does a Christian today really need to see the Ark or any "relics" so that he can believe in God? Where's your faith then?
---christan on 9/16/11
The relics are not required for faith, but neither are they enough to change the nature of faith to be seeing as used in the cited scriptures. Neither the Arc or Shroud, or other relics are equivalent to seeing the evidence that Jesus was Christ.as did Thomas.
---Rocky on 9/17/11


Ruben, I will answer you kindly this time. Sorry about the other time.
Ruben, what your are doing again and again is making my point. You justify the worship of idols. That is exactly what I was talking about. You know they worship idols because like me you are from Texas and probably have been to the shrines yourself and ask the saint's for a miracles, so of course you would justify what you do. Others Catholics and E. Orthodox claim they don't worship idols. That people are ignorant, but you just made my case. What you haven't done is put Christ on the Throne. Someone is always in His place. Mary, the saints, the pope, and especially your Church. I don't see you defending Christ. How about a few words on His behalf. Is it to hard?
---Mark_V. on 9/17/11


\\Cluny, did jesus make a difference between them? no he didn't because Jesus never said anything in greek since he was minister to the unlearned Jews he must have used Hebrew.\\

Really? Jews had not used Hebrew as a vernacular since the time of the first Exile. It was so little understood that when Jesus quoted Ps 22 on the Cross, they thought He was calling for Elijah.

And why would He NOT have used Greek? Greek had been the lingua franca in that part of the world since the time of Alexander the Great. EVERYONE had to know Greek to get along.

Of course Latinists are the very people to ask about GREEK, right?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/11


Leslie, Hebrews 8:13


In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Old Covenant is gone. Hebrews is such a wonderful book. It amazes me how many false beliefs it puts to rest!
---CraigA on 9/17/11


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\\I don't know why you would say that for I am a witness to that and was a worshipper myself, as all Catholics that I know. ... I am not ignorant but a former idol worshipper.\\

You know your own soul better than I do, and you know what sins you have committed. But know that if you were an idolater, you chose to be such DESPITE the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

Furthermore, since your vision is clouded by the sin of idolatry, you are in no position to know the souls of other people.

It is uncharitable and unjust to project your sins onto others.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/11


"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:17, "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." Romans 8:24,25

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Does a Christian today really need to see the Ark or any "relics" so that he can believe in God? Where's your faith then?
---christan on 9/16/11


Cluny, did jesus make a difference between them? no he didn't because Jesus never said anything in greek since he was minister to the unlearned Jews he must have used Hebrew.

but basically there's no real difference between the two terms as defined by the rcc, these terms are used interchangeably.Ludovicus Vivcs, a learned Romanist, has proved out of Suidas, Xenophon, and Volla, that these two words are usually taken the one for the other.
---andy3996 on 9/17/11


The Ark of the Covenant symbolizes the inner workings of the Throne of God

It was once seated in The Holy of Holies in Temple of Solomon (1Kings 6:19).

Perhaps, it is in the New Jerusalem that will be seated in the Temple of the One greater than Solomon. (Rev 21:1-3).

(Dimensionally speaking, the Holy of Holies and the New Jerusalem are perfect cubes.)
---aka on 9/17/11


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\\the schroud of Turin, the blood of christ in bruge, the basilica of the cross in Rome, are only three relics that are latreianised by Catholics.\\

Et reliqua.

Wrong.

if ANYONE gives these relics the worship of LATREIA, they do so not because of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, BUT IN SPITE OF IT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/11


the schroud of Turin, the blood of christ in bruge, the basilica of the cross in Rome, are only three relics that are latreianised by Catholics.
the virgin of Lourdes, where pope John paul specially visited and "crowned here Queen of the universe"?. i believe RCC is confused themself.
the split up between the ancient catholics and the RC. because of the doctrines of immaculate conception and ifallibilty of the pope. it seems that there are even RCC's who disagree with the exageration of these days.
---andy3996 on 9/16/11


Mark_V.* Members bow down or get on their knees,

You mean like the 'Ark of the covenant' or the 'Bronze serpent'

Mark_V.*ask them for miracles,

You mean like the Hankerchief and shadow of Paul and Peter!

Mark_V.*keep statues of them at home, in the car, wear the saints around their necks.

Since you go by the Bible only, give me chapter,verse and book where it tells us not to have them at home, cars and around the body!

Mark_V.*Pray the rosery at funerals especially.

Since Mary stood at the cross why not.

Mark_V.*I am not ignorant but a former idol worshipper.

But you are on Catholic teaching!
---Ruben on 9/16/11


Cluny, I love Mary,i respect her. she's a good virtuous woman, who accomplished the most important ministry any normal human could have in this fallen world, mother of the redeemer...
Do i pray to her, do i have relics of her strapped arround me,have i devotions of her? special feasts to call upon her? NO. there is a major difference between loving someone and idolising that same person making them what they are not.
---andy3996 on 9/16/11


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Cluny, you are completely wrong when you say,

"BTW--neither Roman Catholics nor Eastern Orthodox worship relics with the LATREIA owed to God alone, though a lot of ignorant and bigoted people think so"

I don't know why you would say that for I am a witness to that and was a worshipper myself, as all Catholics that I know. You know yourself there are many Shrines of Saints. Members bow down or get on their knees, worship them, ask them for miracles, keep statues of them at home, in the car, wear the saints around their necks. Pray the rosery at funerals especially. And then justify what they do by looking for Scripture to allow them to do so. I am not ignorant but a former idol worshipper.
---Mark_V. on 9/16/11


Cluny,
firstly Jesus would never make this differnece since Christ never preached in Greek.
secondly even Catholic theologians recognise theat the papal definition is eronic.Ludovicus Vivcs, a learned Romanist, has proved out of Suidas, Xenophon, and Volla, that these two words are usually taken the one for the other, therefore the popish distinction, that the first signifies "the religious worship due only to God," and the second, "that which is given to angels, saints, and men," is unlearned and false.See LeigVs Crit. Sacra.

---andy3996 on 9/16/11


\\Question, is worship of saints less offensive because you worship God more?\\

We are commanded to love God with all our heart, soul, m ind, and strength.

is it offensive if we love someone else, too?

The distinction between LATREIA and DOULEIA is one that Jesus Himself made, as can be seen in the Greek NT.

If He made it, why cannot others?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/11


INFO for noncatholics Latreia The highest kind of worship, or that paid to God, -- distinguished by the Roman Catholics from dulia, or the inferior worship paid to saints.

neither do buddists worship Budda, or any relic or statue, only bigoted Christians think so.

Question, is worship of saints less offensive because you worship God more?
personally i do honour the memory of the saints, but calling upon anyone else but God is anti-theology
---andy3996 on 9/15/11


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I'm of the opinon (NOT an article of my faith) that the original Ark of the Covenant is in the Church of St. Mary of Zion in Axum. After all, the Ethiopian royal house was the only other one that worshipped YHVH after the destruction of the Temple.

Whatever happened to the Ark, it's not something I stay awake at nights pondering upon.

BTW--neither Roman Catholics nor Eastern Orthodox worship relics with the LATREIA owed to God alone, though a lot of ignorant and bigoted people think so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/11


The ARk of the covenant is alive and well.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ARK OF HIS TESTIMONY
---Francis on 9/13/11


here's another ancient "christian tradition" the ark was hid in a cave under the golgotha site, when jesus was crucified drops of his blood would have fallen on the lid, atoning the sin of the world. afterwards it was found by the templar knights and brought over somewhere in france toghether with Solomon's treasure. there's even an entire film about this. but the difference is, that its only phantasy. just as the phantasy of indiana jones and the ark is based on another legend. all beautifull films yet phantasy
---andy3996 on 9/13/11


Blogmeister: Most competent archeologists and historians agree the Arc is in Axum? No they do not. I challenge you to show just three that really beleive it is there. Most don't know and other sites have been speculated or investigated for it.
---Rocky on 9/12/11


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Darline, there is many theories as to where the Ark of the Covenant is located at. I heard the one that was mentioned here in the History Channel. That it was in Africa in Ethiopia. But that cannot be proven unless they showed it to people to confirm it was the Ark of the Covenant. Just another theory. What we do know is that it was not destroyed. For it is mentioned in Rev. 11:19. It could be that the earthly Ark was only a picture of this heavenly One (Heb. 9:23, 10:20). It was the earthly Holy of of Holies and was opened when the price of sin was paid (Matt. 27:51, Heb. 10:19,20) So the Holy of Holies in heaven is opened to speak of God's saving New Covenant and redeeming purpose in the midst of Judgment.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/11


There is a person on this side commanded not to murder his wife.
There is another person on the other side commanded to love his wife.
Which wife is better off?
---micha9344 on 8/22/11


Interesting post Jerry6593
---Audra on 8/21/11


Blogmeister, its a marvelous thing to phantasy about actually.
another phantasy is that the arch turns invissible for whomever wants to look upon it. and however the ethiopic claim was amusing, it has no vallid proof neither anything else but a claim of an iligitimate son usurping power, and using religion to do so. the jews you talk about are the ethiopic jews. who are a race of proselytes rather.
---andy3996 on 8/18/11


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Andy said: "Blogmeister, never heard about this theory. if true then the claims of the first King must have been true as well, question remains, why would Solomon give away the most sacred object to anyone who's not Jew?"

When the Queen of Sheba visited Solomon, she conceived a child by him, named Menelek. She also brought back to Ethiopia a form of Judaism. When the Assyrians came to conquer Judah, the Ark was sent away for safe keeping to the only other Jewish Royal Family that existed, the one in Ethiopia. It has been there ever since.
---Blogmeister on 8/17/11


Blogmeister, never heard about this theory. if true then the claims of the first King must have been true as well, question remains, why would Solomon give away the most sacred object to anyone who's not Jew?
---andy3996 on 8/17/11


The Ark of the Covenant is hidden in a small monastery in Axum in Ethiopia. One priest guards it and will not allow anyone even to enter the chapel grounds, much less to peer beyond the curtains and see it.

I know that that claim sounds Catholic, but most competent archeologists and historians agree. Look up Axum on Google and see
---Blogmeister on 8/16/11


The Arc of the Covenant (containing the Ten Commandments), like the entire wilderness sanctuary, was a copy of that in heaven - and thus still exists. The change in the Covenants (agreements, contracts, etc.) from Old to New involved only a change in the location of the law (stone-to-heart) and the manner of the priesthood (levitical-to-melchisedec), and NOT in the Ten Commandment Law itself. Else, murder, adultery, etc. would be perfectly OK now.
---jerry6593 on 8/11/11


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kathr4453, Amen sister. He alone is our Yea and Amen. No ark, nor piece of wood nor shroud nor goblet can match our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
---Eloy on 8/8/11


Oh Eloy, WHO lives in me is far beyond any relic I could ever own or even want to. I have the REAL THING, that will never fade away, corrode, get stolen, and so on.

Why worship the silverware when the Filet is the main course.

And He's Mine eternally and forever more!

Blessd assurance, Jesus is mine!
O what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11


kathr4453, A-men. I suppose that if you and I had a profession of archeology then we might have the desire to also seek out the "famous treasures od antiquity". But as it stands, I am satisfied with the contents of the Holy Bible, and the Ultimate Salvation contained within it, and we whom have applied and obtained this Salvation are exceedingly satisfied, and the satisfied have no need to seek further for something more.
---Eloy on 8/8/11


Exactly Eloy, and why look for the relics of anything as the RCC and Eastern Orthodox have done( a piece of theh Cross, the nails, shroud, etc, who also claim they "Knights Templer" have the Ark of the Covenant" obtained during one of the Crusades.

Idolotry is Idolotry!
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11


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Why look for the dead relics of Moses on Mount Ararat, when we now have the ever living words of Jesus?
---Eloy on 8/7/11


I just wanted to clarify my post:"I don't think it would have been a small matter for the veil to be ripped with the ark still on the other side of it." And that the ark must have been at the temple at that time or there would be no reason for the veil.
---aej on 8/7/11


The Ark was missing long before the New Covenant came into effect. It disappeared during the time of King Neb. It is possible Jeremiah and a few remnant who left took it with them, OR Neb destroyed it when he destroyed the temple the first time the temple was destroyed.

I don't believe we will ever know where or what happened to the Ark of the Covenant ( the Chest) until the Lord returns.

Just as God has hidden the bones of Moses from all, I believe He has also hidden this s well.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/11


Luke 23:45 New King James Version (NKJV)45 Then the sun was darkened,and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

The veil separated the holy from the most holy place, where the ark was kept. The veil being torn in two may not only represent the end of separation between God and man through the cross (the high priest could only enter into here once a year), but also that it may have been taken away. I don't think it was a small matter to have the veil ripped. It's seen again here:

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Just a thought.
---aej on 8/6/11


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Thanks all. Cluny Not worldly Wisdom nor foolishness to God. Grounds,the Bible. Hebrews 8:13 That he said a New Covenant he has made the first old now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 10:16 new covenant he made puts laws into hearts and minds. No need for written on stone,Ark has Ten Commandments on stone and things pertaining to First Covenant thus 1st Covenant passed,makes sense not needed on earth so the Ark with it. Leslie please read Acts 15:24-29 for what pertains from 10 Commandements to gentiles. Seems from Bible's instruction,1 Corinthians 13:4-8,about what love does,Ten Commandments are all covered now by Law of love. Leslie 1st Covenant you can see was done away with read Hebrews 8-10 also.
---Darlene_1 on 8/5/11


Jeremiah 3:16
"In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land," declares the LORD, "people will no longer say, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered, it will not be missed, nor will another one be made."
---StrongAxe on 8/4/11


Last literal biblerefference of the Ark is whenJosiah commanded the levites to leave the ark in the Temple, and consecrate them unto a new ministry.(2chron 35:3) after this is alot of guessing, some say the ark was allready gone (taken during a formal raid of the Babylonians). some say that pharaoh Necho took the ark into Egypt. a third thesis is that it was destroyed with the first temple some years later. Jeremiah, a contemporary of Josiah, gave an early prophecy about the ark
(Jer3:16).NOW IS THIS period we are living.
The ark was a foreshadow(heb9:9) and nolonger needed. Finally we find it back in heaven revelation 11:19.
which gives a last thesis about the ark, That God lifted it in heaven before the destruction of the temple.
---andy3996 on 8/4/11


The problem with your logic Darlene is that the 1st Covenant is NOT done away with but only added onto with the New Covenant according to the Bible. Jesus said He did not come to abolish (destroy, do away with) the law or the Old Covenant, but to FULFILL it, and that not one dot or tiddle will be done away with until ALL is fulfilled. There are parts of the Old Covenant still yet to be fulfilled. This means that Christians (now grafted into the O.C. with the N.C.) still have to live by and obey the Commandments of God, or we do not belong to or love God according to the Bible.
---Leslie on 8/4/11


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The people who say they have the Ark of the Cov. will not let anybody see it because like in OT only the high priest can go into the room. The Ark was lost after the Babloyian invasion. Is it mentioned after the excile in the Bible? I cannot think of it anywhere. It was probably hidden by Israelites before Bablyon invasion or taken to Bablyon but then destroyed accidently by gold seekers.
---Scott1 on 8/4/11


The Ark was in the First Temple. The Babylonians burned and destroyed that temple in 586 B.C. So the Ark was undoubtedly destroyed at that time. It was, after all, made of wood. :-)
---John.usa on 8/3/11


And on what grounds do you decide that?

Remember that God doesn't even think the same way you do, and the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God, so if it makes sense to you, it's probably not so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/11


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